I like it, you will need to REALLY do some serious campaigning to get Mojang to adopt it. Movecraft ships are essentially world editing the ship for everytime they move. Unless they can somehow make it like the standard rowboat. They will likely not adopt it for Java Edition. I love it by the way. I wish they would adopt it.
I like it, you will need to REALLY do some serious campaigning to get Mojang to adopt it. Movecraft ships are essentially world editing the ship for everytime they move. Unless they can somehow make it like the standard rowboat. They will likely not adopt it for Java Edition. I love it by the way. I wish they would adopt it.
How would I do this, exactly? I guess someone could post it on the Minecraft Reddit, but even if it got popular it'd still take a lot of luck for Mojang to add it.
If they can improve ships in vanilla, I would be happy.
In this suggestion, ships would not work in the same way they do in mods (or at least how I'm 99% sure they work in mods). In the "Technical Stuff" section, I noted that the ship wouldn't be one big entity, but rather multiple medium-sized entities. This would mean there wouldn't be lag from there being too many entities, and that there wouldn't be too much lag from a very large entity.
If shipwrecks are to be added, for me it has to be on one condition: There is a Titanic shipwreck somewhere in the world within 100,000 blocks of spawn, and there is only 1. But either way..
Also, with the addition of Icebergs in 1.13, maybe ships will sink when hitting icebergs or just land in general?
How would I do this, exactly? I guess someone could post it on the Minecraft Reddit, but even if it got popular it'd still take a lot of luck for Mojang to add it.
Mojang does look at the subreddit very commonly.
Problem is, though, the chance of this ever being on the Minecraft subreddit and getting the mythical 100+ upvotes is literally zero. I don't say that as a measure of the suggestion's quality- it's one of the finest I've ever seen- but rather of the subreddit itself.
The subreddit's community is extremely prone to voting without reading, coming up with flawed conclusions, and blankly ignoring detailed or lengthy suggestions. Effectively, you will cap out at 25 at best unless your suggestion fulfills three criteria: it's short, literally anyone would benefit from it (e.g. pistons emitting a little smoke if they can't move, which has been accepted for Minecraft), and it's not particularly radical. Add to the volume of suggestions running through the subreddit daily, and 99% of the time your suggestion will be drowned out and lost. I've seen numerous good suggestions with very high ratings simply ignored, too; Rusty Iron Golems for one, and numerous others.
That produces a bit of strangeness as to the reason we even make suggestions here. I myself consider it to be just a way of throwing ideas at each other; Mojang doesn't read this forum and there's 0% chance of most good ideas here passing on the subreddit. The best thing we can hope for is a skilled modder to swing by and say "i want to make this so bad", or the 1-in-1-million chance that Jeb will visit on a whim, see something he likes, and say "hey, I want to put that in Minecraft".
Reddit is a terrible place overall for a suggestion box. If they moved it here I'd be the happiest person on Earth.
It's also quite a shame that I can't drive that car I built, or that hot air balloon I made, or that I can't populate my castle with guards and my plane with passengers.
But that's not really a great argument to add them all.
> Crossing an ocean in a small rowboat is boring and inefficient.
Inefficiency isn't Minecraft's concern.
Piloting a large, clunky ship by yourself also isn't very fun. And how would you fire the, I'm assuming, multiple cannons if there's nobody else on the ship?
The issue of taking items overseas is a valid concern, though I'm unsure if this is the best way to resolve it. Somebody else suggested backpacks instead of chestplates.
Also, this is very complex. I'm not sure I'm ready for the complexity of building an entire ship from scratch. At the very least, block weight is a no-go. I'm playing Minecraft, not Pirate Ship Sim.
I do agree that battling a pirate ship full of villagers and (hopefully) making them sink into the deep depths of the ocean... sounds quite fun. But again, they have an entire crew. You are just one player on a big ship with lots of cannons. Might as well fly a passenger jet by yourself with no passengers.
I like that you thought out ways to optimize it though. Lag would definitely be a great concern of mine.
However, I don't believe you mentioned how one would actually build the ship. You said that there can be a max of 5000 blocks. Thousands of blocks? Way too much. Again, one-man army. How do I build all that?
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It's also quite a shame that I can't drive that car I built, or that hot air balloon I made, or that I can't populate my castle with guards and my plane with passengers.
But that's not really a great argument to add them all.
The difference here is that a moving ship would actually fit in with the themes and technology levels of Minecraft, and could be quite balanced.
> Crossing an ocean in a small rowboat is boring and inefficient.
Inefficiency isn't Minecraft's concern.
Piloting a large, clunky ship by yourself also isn't very fun. And how would you fire the, I'm assuming, multiple cannons if there's nobody else on the ship? Simple: you go over to the cannons and fire them. The ship has sails, so it moves regardless of whether or not you're at the wheel.
The issue of taking items overseas is a valid concern, though I'm unsure if this is the best way to resolve it. Somebody else suggested backpacks instead of chestplates.
Also, this is very complex. I'm not sure I'm ready for the complexity of building an entire ship from scratch. At the very least, block weight is a no-go. I'm playing Minecraft, not Pirate Ship Sim. The block weight system isn't very complex at all. It's just here to ensure people don't go around making impenetrable ships made of iron blocks or stone. You do realize that there are a lot more complex things I could have added in this suggestion, right? (e.g. Wind direction / turning the sails; keels; sterns; ropes, etc.)
I do agree that battling a pirate ship full of villagers and (hopefully) making them sink into the deep depths of the ocean... sounds quite fun. But again, they have an entire crew. You are just one player on a big ship with lots of cannons. Might as well fly a passenger jet by yourself with no passengers. Minecraft isn't only a singleplayer game. If you're having trouble with the pirates, you can either flee, turn it to peaceful mode, or invite your friends into the world to help you.
I like that you thought out ways to optimize it though. Lag would definitely be a great concern of mine.
However, I don't believe you mentioned how one would actually build the ship. You said that there can be a max of 5000 blocks. Thousands of blocks? Way too much. Again, one-man army. How do I build all that? You don't have to build a ship that is huge. You can build a tiny little sailboat if you want to. Also, I don't think you realize just how small 5,000 blocks really is.
The difference here is that a moving ship would actually fit in with the themes and technology levels of Minecraft, and could be quite balanced.
Depends on what you mean by "themes", and MC's technology levels have been debated.
I assume by "balanced" you mean that it won't be underpowered or overpowered?
Simple: you go over to the cannons and fire them. The ship has sails, so it moves regardless of whether or not you're at the wheel.
There's still multiple cannons. It doesn't seem like a great solution for the player to have to run back and forth between cannons. And does that mean there'll be a constant, unchanging wind all the time? So the ship moves at a constant speed unless blocks are added/removed?
The block weight system isn't very complex at all. It's just here to ensure people don't go around making impenetrable ships made of iron blocks or stone. You do realize that there are a lot more complex things I could have added in this suggestion, right? (e.g. Wind direction / turning the sails; keels; sterns; ropes, etc.)
Well, fair enough. So if you want to speed up or slow down, just mine or add a few blocks, respectively. About how fast would the fastest speed be, then? And unless anchored, the ship would just keep going at the same speed for as long as it took until it hit land?
Minecraft isn't only a singleplayer game. If you're having trouble with the pirates, you can either flee, turn it to peaceful mode, or invite your friends into the world to help you.
Many, many Minecraft players still play singleplayer. All vanilla MC features should be perfectly compatible wth a singleplayer world. Having to flee or turn down difficulty shouldn't even be considered as a solution to a new mob, especially one that inhabits the easily accessible sea.
You don't have to build a ship that is huge. You can build a tiny little sailboat if you want to. Also, I don't think you realize just how small 5,000 blocks really is.
The problem with this is that you'll have "ships" that are just a flat piece of rectangular wood with a stack of wood and a helm. Minecraft allows for creativity, but so far there's been limits like this, meaning that you can't build something and use it to, say, sail the seas.And I don't think you realize just how diverse the Minecraft community is. For a lot of us, building a small house is the extent of our creations. Minecraft's building is a huge element, but it's not required, and 5,000 blocks is definitely quite large for a single-man ship.
Depends on what you mean by "themes", and MC's technology levels have been debated.
Shipwrecks are actually being added in 1.13, so it's reasonable to say that ships are within Minecraft's technology level.
I assume by "balanced" you mean that it won't be underpowered or overpowered?
Yes.
There's still multiple cannons. It doesn't seem like a great solution
for the player to have to run back and forth between cannons.
What do you mean by "there's still multiple cannons"? You don't have to put more than one cannon on your ship, or any at all for that matter. You're building the ship. Cannons are mainly designed for multiplayer; the only reason you'd need cannons in singleplayer is to fight off naturally spawned pirate ships; in this case, you could move your ship close to theirs and fight the pirates on deck, or even just flee the area if you can.
And does that mean there'll be a constant, unchanging wind all the time?
So the ship moves at a constant speed unless blocks are added/removed?
This is correct. The shape of the ship and ratio of wool blocks to non-wool blocks are the determining factors of the ship's speed. It's like this for simplicity. You once said "I'm playing Minecraft, not Pirate Ship Sim," so I would have thought that you were in support of simplicity.
Well, fair enough. So if you want to speed up or slow down, just mine
or add a few blocks, respectively. About how fast would the fastest
speed be, then? And unless anchored, the ship would just keep going at
the same speed for as long as it took until it hit land?
The maximum speed of a ship would definitely not exceed 3 times that of the current rowboat, and probably not be more than 2 times that of the current rowboat. To see what the right and balanced maximum speed is, testing would likely have to be done.
Many, many Minecraft players still play singleplayer. All vanilla MC
features should be perfectly compatible wth a singleplayer world. Having
to flee or turn down difficulty shouldn't even be considered as a
solution to a new mob, especially one that inhabits the easily
accessible sea. You don't have to flee or turn down difficulty. You can take on the challenge and try to fire your cannons, or even board the pirate ship and fight with your sword/bow.
The problem with this is that you'll have "ships" that are just a flat
piece of rectangular wood with a stack of wood and a helm.While it would be possible to do this, ships would be faster when built better, so there would be an incentive to try to build a ship that actually looks like a ship. It's also worth noting that having a ship that is just one or two blocks high (excluding the masts and sails) would make it easier for hostile water mobs (such as guardians and the new "drowned" mob coming in 1.13) to attack you. Minecraft allows for creativity, but so far there's been limits like this, meaning
that you can't build something and use it to, say, sail the seas.You wouldn't just be able to build something and sail the seas. You'd have to craft a helm and an anchor block, which takes ~42 iron to make. At the moment, you can sail the seas in a tiny rowboat for just 5 wooden planks. And I don't think you realize just how diverse the Minecraft community is. For a lot of us, building a small house is the extent of our creations.
Minecraft's building is a huge element, but it's not required, and 5,000 blocks is definitely quite large for a single-man ship.You seem to think that you'd have to make the ship 5,000 blocks, but this isn't the case. That is the limit. You could make your ship a tiny sailboat if you wanted too. And you wouldn't have to add cannons, either. This is all about choice.
Shipwrecks are actually being added in 1.13, so it's reasonable to say that ships are within Minecraft's technology level.
Huh. Well, never mind then. Thanks for telling me.
Yes[, not overpowered or underpowered].
Definitely not overpowered unless strict inventory limits are an intentional design.
What do you mean by "there's still multiple cannons"? You don't have to put more than one cannon on your ship, or any at all for that matter. You're building the ship. Cannons are mainly designed for multiplayer; the only reason you'd need cannons in singleplayer is to fight off naturally spawned pirate ships; in this case, you could move your ship close to theirs and fight the pirates on deck, or even just flee the area if you can.
Oh, understood. I keep assuming that it'll be a pre-made ship, even though I know that's not true. Old habits are hard to break.
Okay. Cannons would only work on ships, correct? That would cause some complaints by people wanting their own fortress, but that would be a little too strong.
Cannons could be used to attack guardians. Do you have anything in mind for the cannonball's stats? Damage, explosion radius/strength?
However, I still stand by my idea of multiple cannons in the sense that you'll need multiple cannons to size up against a pirate ship. You said that a pirate ship has multiple cannons, along with pirates holding swords or bows (the latter of which is also long-range). With a small ship, you would likely be able to just sail past given the skeleton's current aiming AI, but it'd be quite hard to get close and jump onto their ship without the use of enderpearls, as they could blow you out of the water and/or shoot you down with arrows. Therefore, to attack a pirate ship normally with the cannon's intended usage, you'd use multiple cannons on your ship. That means it'd be slower but sturdier, yet again, you'd have the issue of having to run back and forth. How will enemy cannons be fired? Are they an entity on their own? Would their be pirates using them on the lower deck? Will the aiming AI be based on the current skeleton bow aim AI?
Again, you're designing the ship based off of multiplayer. Don't. Many mods do that, but vanilla Minecraft doesn't.
This is correct. The shape of the ship and ratio of wool blocks to non-wool blocks are the determining factors of the ship's speed. It's like this for simplicity. You once said "I'm playing Minecraft, not Pirate Ship Sim," so I would have thought that you were in support of simplicity.
I do support simplicity. If you'd wanted to add wind, I'd disagree. Though this whole idea is a little against my idea of simplicity, especially given current transportations (boats, minecarts).
The maximum speed of a ship would definitely not exceed 3 times that of the current rowboat, and probably not be more than 2 times that of the current rowboat. To see what the right and balanced maximum speed is, testing would likely have to be done.
Understandable.
You don't have to flee or turn down difficulty. You can take on the challenge and try to fire your cannons, or even board the pirate ship and fight with your sword/bow.
You could try, but given my understanding mentioned above, you'd probably fail.
While it would be possible to do this, ships would be faster when built better, so there would be an incentive to try to build a ship that actually looks like a ship. It's also worth noting that having a ship that is just one or two blocks high (excluding the masts and sails) would make it easier for hostile water mobs (such as guardians and the new "drowned" mob coming in 1.13) to attack you.
I assume that by a round front, you mean a curved front that juts out in the middle. Is that the only way that shape affects speed?
It could still be shaped for optimum speed while looking more like a raft than a ship, and hostile water mobs likely won't be a problem due to ship speed and the various other workarounds (e.g. building a small wall).
You wouldn't just be able to build something and sail the seas. You'd have to craft a helm and an anchor block, which takes ~42 iron to make. At the moment, you can sail the seas in a tiny rowboat for just 5 wooden planks.
Of course there're limitations, but I'm talking about the strange designs that will undoubtedly ensue, not the costs.
You seem to think that you'd have to make the ship 5,000 blocks, but this isn't the case. That is the limit. You could make your ship a tiny sailboat if you wanted too. And you wouldn't have to add cannons, either. This is all about choice.
A tiny sailboat with a helm and an anchor? Forgive me if my knowledge of ships is lacking, but that doesn't seem like the greatest design.
You wouldn't have to add cannons, of course, unless you wanted to actually battle pirates. Then you'd need a sizable ship to build from scratch.
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Okay. Cannons would only work on ships, correct? That would cause some
complaints by people wanting their own fortress, but that would be a
little too strong.
Cannons would work anywhere, just like any other block. They are most useful on ships, though.
Cannons could be used to attack guardians. Do you have anything in mind
for the cannonball's stats? Damage, explosion radius/strength?
They have the same damage and explosion radius as TNT. This is because they are essentially an alternative to TNT cannons so you can have ship fights in multiplayer.
However, I still stand by my idea of multiple cannons in the sense that
you'll need multiple cannons to size up against a pirate ship. You said
that a pirate ship has multiple cannons, along with pirates holding
swords or bows (the latter of which is also long-range). With a small
ship, you would likely be able to just sail past given the skeleton's
current aiming AI, but it'd be quite hard to get close and jump onto
their ship without the use of enderpearls, as they could blow you out of
the water and/or shoot you down with arrows. Therefore, to attack a
pirate ship normally with the cannon's intended usage, you'd use
multiple cannons on your ship. That means it'd be slower but sturdier,
yet again, you'd have the issue of having to run back and forth. How
will enemy cannons be fired? Are they an entity on their own? Would
their be pirates using them on the lower deck? Will the aiming AI be
based on the current skeleton bow aim AI?
The cannons would be fired by the pirates, when a ship or player is in front a cannon with a *slight* delay based on the game difficulty. The pirates with bows would attack similarly to skeletons. This is kind of a given because every mob in the game with a bow (i.e. skeletons and the illusioner illager) attack with the bow in the same way.
Again, you're designing the ship based off of multiplayer. Don't. Many mods do that, but vanilla Minecraft doesn't.
It's not designed for multiplayer, but rather made useful for multiplayer.
I do support simplicity. If you'd wanted to add wind, I'd disagree . Though this whole idea is a little against my idea of simplicity,
especially given current transportations (boats, minecarts).
You are right in that current transportation does not include player-built vehicles (unless you count slime-block machines). However, this suggestion is changing that.
You could try, but given my understanding mentioned above, you'd probably fail.
If you turn your ship so that you are heading perpendicular to the pirate ship, you'd have some time to get closer to it and board the pirate ship.
I assume that by a round front, you mean a curved front that juts out in
the middle. Is that the only way that shape affects speed? Pretty much. You have to keep in mind, though, that even though there is little limitation, there is still more discouragement to build a giant block as a ship than there is to build a dirt house.
It could still be shaped for optimum speed while looking more like a
raft than a ship, and hostile water mobs likely won't be a problem due
to ship speed and the various other workarounds (e.g. building a small
wall).
I don't see why we should prevent players from building rafts. Of course there're limitations, but I'm talking about the strange designs that will undoubtedly ensue, not the costs.
You seem to think that you'd have to make the ship
5,000 blocks, but this isn't the case. That is the limit. You could make
your ship a tiny sailboat if you wanted too. And you wouldn't have to
add cannons, either. This is all about choice.
A tiny sailboat with a helm and an anchor? Forgive me if my knowledge of
ships is lacking, but that doesn't seem like the greatest design.
You could definitely do this.
You wouldn't have to add cannons, of course, unless you wanted to
actually battle pirates. Then you'd need a sizable ship to build from
scratch. No you wouldn't. Small ships do have their benefits.
Cannons would work anywhere, just like any other block. They are most useful on ships, though.
That would be overpowered then. It would be a TNT cannon, except much more mobile, with much easier aiming, and possibly cheaper.
They have the same damage and explosion radius as TNT. This is because they are essentially an alternative to TNT cannons so you can have ship fights in multiplayer.
Then basically a direct upgrade to TNT cannons.
The cannons would be fired by the pirates, when a ship or player is in front a cannon with a *slight* delay based on the game difficulty. The pirates with bows would attack similarly to skeletons. This is kind of a given because every mob in the game with a bow (i.e. skeletons and the illusioner illager) attack with the bow in the same way.
I was asking about the aiming AI for the cannons. As you said, the bow pirates are a given.
Do cannons have a reload time? Will pirate ship cannons have unlimited ammo?
You still haven't solved the issue of the player having to run back and forth unless playing multiplayer.
You are right in that current transportation does not include player-built vehicles (unless you count slime-block machines). However, this suggestion is changing that.
I wouldn't count slime-block machines as that's more of a nice redstone creation (never even heard of it until now).
If you turn your ship so that you are heading perpendicular to the pirate ship, you'd have some time to get closer to it and board the pirate ship.
Not sure what you mean. Like this?
Pretty much. You have to keep in mind, though, that even though there is little limitation, there is still more discouragement to build a giant block as a ship than there is to build a dirt house.
There is more discouragement, yes. But players will find workarounds.
I don't see why we should prevent players from building rafts.
A raft with a helm?
You could definitely do this.
Seems strange.
No you wouldn't. Small ships do have their benefits.
Again, depends on the pirate cannons' aiming AI. Also, will cannons explode upon impact with water too?
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That would be overpowered then. It would be a TNT cannon, except much
more mobile, with much easier aiming, and possibly cheaper. You don't "aim" a cannon; I never said that. It fires in the direction it is placed just like a dispenser.
Then basically a direct upgrade to TNT cannons. You are wrong here. Cannons are less predicable in their range, meaning TNT cannons can be more accurate. Additionally, TNT cannons are more costly in terms of gunpowder, while normal cannons are more costly in terms of iron, so there is a choice for players to make. TNT cannons also have the awesome ability of firing more than one TNT; cannons do not have this.
I was asking about the aiming AI for the cannons. As you said, the bow pirates are a given. I explained it very clearly. When there is a ship or player in front of the cannon, the skeletons will fire, with a slight delay depending on the game difficulty. There is no "aiming" here. The cannon is just being fired when the skeleton sees something in front of it. There would also be a delay in between shots; this would be equivalent to the amount of time it'd take for a player to reload a cannon.
Do cannons have a reload time? Will pirate ship cannons have unlimited ammo? Yes, they would have unlimited ammunition similar to how skeletons have unlimited arrows.
You still haven't solved the issue of the player having to run back and forth unless playing multiplayer. I'm not sure what you mean here.
Not sure what you mean. Like this? The image you put didn't load for me.
There is more discouragement, yes. But players will find workarounds. And what's so bad about this? How is this different from players building derpy dirt houses?
A raft with a helm? That's correct. Yes, while in real life a raft wouldn't have a helm (You would manually turn the stern or use a whipstaff.) I am not currently in favor of implementing other types of helms for the sake of simplicity.
Seems strange. Rafts existed.
Again, depends on the pirate cannons' aiming AI. Also, will cannons explode upon impact with water too?No. Cannons are similar to ghast fireballs; they do not explode when hitting water. That'd be silly.
Responses in bold.
I don't get what your problem is with rafts. People already have the ability to build the most idiotic-looking houses, so what's the issue with letting people build rafts?
You don't "aim" a cannon; I never said that. It fires in the direction it is placed just like a dispenser.
Alright, then just more mobile, easier prediction, and possibly cheaper. Still better.
You are wrong here. Cannons are less predicable in their range, meaning TNT cannons can be more accurate. Additionally, TNT cannons are more costly in terms of gunpowder, while normal cannons are more costly in terms of iron, so there is a choice for players to make. TNT cannons also have the awesome ability of firing more than one TNT; cannons do not have this.
I'll try to list pros and cons compared to TNT.
Pros:
-3 ranges to choose
-Much smaller (based off how multiple cannons can be put in the lower deck of a pirate ship)
-Much more convenient (craft it, use it)
-Much more simple (no need for countless YouTube tutorials)
-Easier to control (explode upon contact, not after a set time)
-Costs iron (instead of gunpowder, from creepers, and sand, from deserts, and all the components required by a tnt cannon, such as redstone)
Cons:
-Ranges vary (depends on which of 3 ranges the cannon uses)
-Limited capabilities (variations of TNT cannons can shoot more, at various speeds, etc)
-Costs iron and 1 flint
Seems to me like, for your average player, cannons would be a strong upgrade to TNT cannons.
As for the costs, it depends. But generally, I'd hazard to say that TNT cannons may be more costly. Iron is easily one of the most common ores in the game, and anyone with a pickaxe can mine some, get some of the also common coal, and quickly build up a stack of the mineral. 5 iron for 3 cannons doesn't sound too costly.
Meanwhile, TNT cannons would require redstone and other materials, the former of which is rarer than iron. And TNT itself would require gunpowder (the main source of which is creepers, which drop 0-2 gunpowders upon death and aren't the most common mob around) and sand (which requires a desert biome nearby), and that's only for 1 TNT at a time.
TNT cannons would still be used, but your cannons would definitely be more prevalent and better for most players.
I have more questions though. How big is the cannon? What I have in mind is 2 blocks long, 1 block wide, 1 block tall. Will it be mined like 1 block, and if so, what'll the mining speed be like?
I explained it very clearly. When there is a ship or player in front of the cannon, the skeletons will fire, with a slight delay depending on the game difficulty. There is no "aiming" here. The cannon is just being fired when the skeleton sees something in front of it. There would also be a delay in between shots; this would be equivalent to the amount of time it'd take for a player to reload a cannon.
You did not explain it clearly enough. In your original post, you described cannons' 3 ranges, the placing of gunpowder in it, the crafting recipes, the explode-upon-contact feature, and the maximum carrying capacity at one time.
You have clarified that there is no aiming in the post which I am replying to. That's a misconception I held due to insufficient descriptions. I better understand what you mean now, though. Thanks.
By "the amount of time it'd take for a player to reload a cannon", what do you mean? The original description says that the cannon is restocked by right-clicking on it with gunpowder. There's no mention of a reload time. And the projectile speed? Range (I assume it'll be the 3rd, farthest range)?
I'm not sure what you mean here.
A ship with multiple cannons will still require the player to have to run back and forth between each cannon to actually make use of them all.
The image you put didn't load for me.
Sorry. Try this? http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=67p4pc&s=9
It's not as big an issue as I'd thought, though. I'd assumed that cannons could be aimed, so the fact that they're entirely immobile makes boarding a pirate ship much easier.
And what's so bad about this? How is this different from players building derpy dirt houses?
You can't build a derpy dirt house and use it to sail the ocean while calling it a ship. All the silly Minecraft creations serve little purpose as intended by the game developers. Pixel art, giant statues, weird octopus things, none of them are more than a structure, mere decoration. I'm not necessarily against the idea of derpy ships, but so far Minecraft doesn't seem to have anything that turns those into usable entities. I guess it'd be that I don't think this fits Minecraft theme, for lack of a better explanation.
That's correct. Yes, while in real life a raft wouldn't have a helm (You would manually turn the stern or use a whipstaff.) I am not currently in favor of implementing other types of helms for the sake of simplicity.
On that note... upon placing a helm, which surrounding blocks are incorporated into the entity of the ship?
No. Cannons are similar to ghast fireballs; they do not explode when hitting water. That'd be silly.
Great. So upon entering water, they'd fizzle out and disappear/sink?
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Pros:
-3 ranges to choose
-Much smaller (based off how multiple cannons can be put in the lower deck of a pirate ship)
-Much more convenient (craft it, use it)
-Much more simple (no need for countless YouTube tutorials)
-Easier to control (explode upon contact, not after a set time)
-Costs iron (instead of gunpowder, from creepers, and sand, from
deserts, and all the components required by a tnt cannon, such as
redstone)
Cons:
-Ranges vary (depends on which of 3 ranges the cannon uses)
-Limited capabilities (variations of TNT cannons can shoot more, at various speeds, etc)
-Costs iron and 1 flint
Seems to me like, for your average player, cannons would be a strong upgrade to TNT cannons.
This is somewhat intended. They are a more "official" (for lack of a better term) version of TNT cannons, but are costly and provide less control than TNT cannons.
As for the costs, it depends. But generally, I'd hazard to say that TNT
cannons may be more costly. Iron is easily one of the most common ores
in the game, and anyone with a pickaxe can mine some, get some of the
also common coal, and quickly build up a stack of the mineral. 5 iron
for 3 cannons doesn't sound too costly.
Meanwhile, TNT cannons would require redstone and other materials, the
former of which is rarer than iron. And TNT itself would require
gunpowder (the main source of which is creepers, which drop 0-2
gunpowders upon death and aren't the most common mob around) and sand
(which requires a desert biome nearby), and that's only for 1 TNT at a
time. I don't mean to sound rude, but you are incorrect. Once you mine deep enough, redstone is actually very common; it's also abundant in that you get more than one piece of dust per ore. Sand also doesn't require a desert at all; you can find it in pretty much any pond, beach, or river bank.Your argument with gunpowder is also fallacious; not only are creepers quite common, but cannons require gunpowder just like TNT cannons do. (Just not as much.)
TNT cannons would still be used, but your cannons would definitely be more prevalent and better for most players. It really depends on the type of player. Surprisingly, a lot of players don't actually keep a large supplies of iron.
I have more questions though. How big is the cannon? What I have in mind is 2 blocks long, 1 block wide, 1 block tall. Will it be mined like 1
block, and if so, what'll the mining speed be like? This is exactly what I imagined. The mining speed? Probably twice that of an anvil.
You did not explain it clearly enough. In your original post, you described cannons' 3 ranges, the placing of gunpowder in it, the
crafting recipes, the explode-upon-contact feature, and the maximum carrying capacity at one time.
I half-way agree with you on this. I will add more to the post on cannons.
You have clarified that there is no aiming in the post which I am
replying to. That's a misconception I held due to insufficient
descriptions. I better understand what you mean now, though. Thanks.
To be honest I kind of assumed that not mentioning cannons being aimable would be enough for people to know that you don't aim them, but like I said above I will add more to the post.
By "the amount of time it'd take for a player to reload a cannon", what
do you mean? The original description says that the cannon is restocked
by right-clicking on it with gunpowder. There's no mention of a reload
time. And the projectile speed? Range (I assume it'll be the 3rd,
farthest range)?
I will add more information on this.
A ship with multiple cannons will still require the player to have to
run back and forth between each cannon to actually make use of them all.
And? There's always going to be benefits to playing with more than one person.
You can't build a derpy dirt house and use it to sail the ocean while
calling it a ship. All the silly Minecraft creations serve little
purpose as intended by the game developers. Pixel art, giant statues,
weird octopus things, none of them are more than a structure, mere
decoration. I'm not necessarily against the idea of derpy ships, but so
far Minecraft doesn't seem to have anything that turns those into usable
entities. I guess it'd be that I don't think this fits Minecraft theme,
for lack of a better explanation.
This isn't really a good argument. There will always be people who build stupid-looking or objectionable things. You have made a good point that the shape of the hull of the ship should also have an effect on the speed, so I'll add this to the post as well.
On that note... upon placing a helm, which surrounding blocks are incorporated into the entity of the ship?
This is kind of a given: "Terrain" blocks (dirt, gravel, stone, sand, clay, grass, ores, etc.) will not be counted as part of the ship unless they are placed on the ship. This prevents the ship from moving a whole continent. It also means, though, that you will need to have a space between your dock and your ship.
Great. So upon entering water, they'd fizzle out and disappear/sink? Yes, just as fire charges do.
Responses in bold.
We have a large disagreement on whether cannons would be balanced. I think I'll make a model for the cannons (just like I did with the helm) and add more to the post.
Alright, I updated the post. I've tweaked a few things (such as crafting recipes) and I've added a model for the cannon along with a texture for the cannonball. I've also provided more detail for how the cannon would function.
This is somewhat intended. They are a more "official" (for lack of a better term) version of TNT cannons, but are costly and provide less control than TNT cannons.
Understood. My main point is that they're incredibly simpler and easier-to-use, but advanced players might prefer TNT cannons instead. But given my knowledge, the average player would definitively prefer cannons over TNT cannons.
Though I still think that the cost for cannonballs may be a little cheap.
And I just realized that cannons are actually not too different from dispensers with fire charges, though definitely cheaper, simpler, and with better accuracy.
I don't mean to sound rude, but you are incorrect. Once you mine deep enough, redstone is actually very common; it's also abundant in that you get more than one piece of dust per ore. Sand also doesn't require a desert at all; you can find it in pretty much any pond, beach, or river bank. Your argument with gunpowder is also fallacious; not only are creepers quite common, but cannons require gunpowder just like TNT cannons do. (Just not as much.)
Thanks for clarifying, and you're correct. Last bit I don't understand is why you say that cannons require gunpowder (don't the crafting recipes for cannons/cannonballs only need iron and/or flint & steel?).
It really depends on the type of player. Surprisingly, a lot of players don't actually keep a large supplies of iron.
Fair enough. I am basing a lot of this off of my own experience, which I really shouldn't be doing.
This is exactly what I imagined. The mining speed? Probably twice that of an anvil.
By twice the mining speed, it'll be mined faster, correct? That'll still take longer than many blocks, but it would help to negate the fact that it can't be "aimed" because a player could place it, fire, mine it, and place it again.
To be honest I kind of assumed that not mentioning cannons being aimable would be enough for people to know that you don't aim them, but like I said above I will add more to the post.
I've always thought of cannons being aimed. Maybe it's just me. I'll check out the new additions once they're posted.
And? There's always going to be benefits to playing with more than one person.
Yes, but a problem with adding a ship to vanilla Minecraft may be that a larger ship (one similar to a pirate ship or merchant ship's size) will basically necessitate multiple players in order to be in any way efficient at all. Of course multiple players would work better, but in this case it would seem like ships capable of engaging pirate ships in cannon combat would be specifically designed against singleplayer. It'd be like adding large Minecarts with several individual controls that would require multiple people to operate efficiently.
This isn't really a good argument. There will always be people who build stupid-looking or objectionable things. You have made a good point that the shape of the hull of the ship should also have an effect on the speed, so I'll add this to the post as well.
Good point. I can't think of anything to refute this. At best, I can say that it personally irks me to see irregular-shaped junk with cannons floating around, but it's a sandbox game, so I'll stay quiet.
This is kind of a given: "Terrain" blocks (dirt, gravel, stone, sand, clay, grass, ores, etc.) will not be counted as part of the ship unless they are placed on the ship. This prevents the ship from moving a whole continent. It also means, though, that you will need to have a space between your dock and your ship.
Then you'd need to build your ship over water (a little risky with the new Drowned mobs). All other blocks will be counted as part of the ship, and then any blocks on top of those other blocks would also be incorporated? And, this might also be a given, you'd be able to remove blocks from your ship or add other blocks by simply mining or placing them onto the existing ship entity?
We have a large disagreement on whether cannons would be balanced. I think I'll make a model for the cannons (just like I did with the helm) and add more to the post.
Please do.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I like it, you will need to REALLY do some serious campaigning to get Mojang to adopt it. Movecraft ships are essentially world editing the ship for everytime they move. Unless they can somehow make it like the standard rowboat. They will likely not adopt it for Java Edition. I love it by the way. I wish they would adopt it.
How would I do this, exactly? I guess someone could post it on the Minecraft Reddit, but even if it got popular it'd still take a lot of luck for Mojang to add it.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Partial support
I'd like to see ships in vanilla but after playing this ship mod: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-mods/1444787-ships-mod-build-sailable-ships-out-of-blocks
my computer starts lagging when the ships move.
If they can improve ships in vanilla, I would be happy.
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In this suggestion, ships would not work in the same way they do in mods (or at least how I'm 99% sure they work in mods). In the "Technical Stuff" section, I noted that the ship wouldn't be one big entity, but rather multiple medium-sized entities. This would mean there wouldn't be lag from there being too many entities, and that there wouldn't be too much lag from a very large entity.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
If shipwrecks are to be added, for me it has to be on one condition: There is a Titanic shipwreck somewhere in the world within 100,000 blocks of spawn, and there is only 1. But either way..
Also, with the addition of Icebergs in 1.13, maybe ships will sink when hitting icebergs or just land in general?
Ink Machine.
Mojang does look at the subreddit very commonly.
Problem is, though, the chance of this ever being on the Minecraft subreddit and getting the mythical 100+ upvotes is literally zero. I don't say that as a measure of the suggestion's quality- it's one of the finest I've ever seen- but rather of the subreddit itself.
The subreddit's community is extremely prone to voting without reading, coming up with flawed conclusions, and blankly ignoring detailed or lengthy suggestions. Effectively, you will cap out at 25 at best unless your suggestion fulfills three criteria: it's short, literally anyone would benefit from it (e.g. pistons emitting a little smoke if they can't move, which has been accepted for Minecraft), and it's not particularly radical. Add to the volume of suggestions running through the subreddit daily, and 99% of the time your suggestion will be drowned out and lost. I've seen numerous good suggestions with very high ratings simply ignored, too; Rusty Iron Golems for one, and numerous others.
That produces a bit of strangeness as to the reason we even make suggestions here. I myself consider it to be just a way of throwing ideas at each other; Mojang doesn't read this forum and there's 0% chance of most good ideas here passing on the subreddit. The best thing we can hope for is a skilled modder to swing by and say "i want to make this so bad", or the 1-in-1-million chance that Jeb will visit on a whim, see something he likes, and say "hey, I want to put that in Minecraft".
Reddit is a terrible place overall for a suggestion box. If they moved it here I'd be the happiest person on Earth.
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There was supposed to be something about tide pools in here?
Hey guys I'm James, I used to be a noob but now I'm not, I finally figured out how to use TextCraft so here's a banner for one of my suggestions.
I've revised some of the post and removed a few things; tide pools was one of them. They're pretty self-explanatory, though. Here's a picture of one:
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
> Building giant ships that never move isn't fun.
It's also quite a shame that I can't drive that car I built, or that hot air balloon I made, or that I can't populate my castle with guards and my plane with passengers.
But that's not really a great argument to add them all.
> Crossing an ocean in a small rowboat is boring and inefficient.
Inefficiency isn't Minecraft's concern.
Piloting a large, clunky ship by yourself also isn't very fun. And how would you fire the, I'm assuming, multiple cannons if there's nobody else on the ship?
The issue of taking items overseas is a valid concern, though I'm unsure if this is the best way to resolve it. Somebody else suggested backpacks instead of chestplates.
Also, this is very complex. I'm not sure I'm ready for the complexity of building an entire ship from scratch. At the very least, block weight is a no-go. I'm playing Minecraft, not Pirate Ship Sim.
I do agree that battling a pirate ship full of villagers and (hopefully) making them sink into the deep depths of the ocean... sounds quite fun. But again, they have an entire crew. You are just one player on a big ship with lots of cannons. Might as well fly a passenger jet by yourself with no passengers.
I like that you thought out ways to optimize it though. Lag would definitely be a great concern of mine.
However, I don't believe you mentioned how one would actually build the ship. You said that there can be a max of 5000 blocks. Thousands of blocks? Way too much. Again, one-man army. How do I build all that?
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Responses in bold.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Responses in normal text.
Quote me if you're replying to my comment please.
Check out my maps!
Vampire and Hunter PVP - multiplayer PvP map:
Custom vanilla mobs showcase map:
Collection of two WIP maps (Quad SB and Advanced Village) [MinecraftForum thread]
Responses in bold.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Quote me if you're replying to my comment please.
Check out my maps!
Vampire and Hunter PVP - multiplayer PvP map:
Custom vanilla mobs showcase map:
Collection of two WIP maps (Quad SB and Advanced Village) [MinecraftForum thread]
Responses in bold.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Quote me if you're replying to my comment please.
Check out my maps!
Vampire and Hunter PVP - multiplayer PvP map:
Custom vanilla mobs showcase map:
Collection of two WIP maps (Quad SB and Advanced Village) [MinecraftForum thread]
Responses in bold.
I don't get what your problem is with rafts. People already have the ability to build the most idiotic-looking houses, so what's the issue with letting people build rafts?
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Quote me if you're replying to my comment please.
Check out my maps!
Vampire and Hunter PVP - multiplayer PvP map:
Custom vanilla mobs showcase map:
Collection of two WIP maps (Quad SB and Advanced Village) [MinecraftForum thread]
Responses in bold.
We have a large disagreement on whether cannons would be balanced. I think I'll make a model for the cannons (just like I did with the helm) and add more to the post.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Alright, I updated the post. I've tweaked a few things (such as crafting recipes) and I've added a model for the cannon along with a texture for the cannonball. I've also provided more detail for how the cannon would function.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Quote me if you're replying to my comment please.
Check out my maps!
Vampire and Hunter PVP - multiplayer PvP map:
Custom vanilla mobs showcase map:
Collection of two WIP maps (Quad SB and Advanced Village) [MinecraftForum thread]