The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Recently, the Better Together update has allowed Windows 10, PE, Xbox One, and Nintendo Switch users to all play together. What annoys me is that they did not do this for Playstation or Java Edition! Besides Windows 10 edition (which I barely play), I own NONE of those versions! I only own all the Playstation versions, Xbox 360, and Java versions. And there is one in particular that I am very frustrated about: Java Edition. Now, I know what you are thinking, "Minecraft Java edition is coded in Java, and every other version is coded in C++! It's impossible!" and I have a solution to that. It's very simple: Take data about the world and the players (e.g. player skins, position of blocks and players) and just convert them so that the values will work on both versions!
I'm so frustrated that Microsoft & Mojang didn't do this!
If you have any comments on the topic, please reply below.
From what I understand, the thing that all the versions that got unified playing have in common, is that they run using the Bedrock game engine. The java edition on the game is hobbled together garbage written by Markus when he first worked on the game. The 2 systems are completely incompatible, and work in different protocols altogether, from what I've seen. This break in protocol means it's effectively impossible to unify games running the legacy engine with games running Bedrock, and doing so would require adding a middleman to all Bedrock servers to try to convert between legacy and bedrock protocols both ways, which would be extremely taxing. The only other solution is to rewrite the Java edition to use Bedrock, which is a daunting task.
purbleguy basically has it right, except you actually could make them communicate the basic info needed through a lot of additional legwork. It would likely be buggy and broken and any changes made would take lots of extra work.
But the real issue I would say is feature disparity. The Bedrock editions have set items and features that the Java version differs from. You would need both to have the same features to really make it work properly.
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The programming language and game engine have little to do with incompatibilities; rather, it is because of differences in various data formats like IDs; for example, in the PC edition each type of wooden fence uses its own block ID*, while in PE they use data values so only one ID is used (the same as oak fences in PC). More significant differences may lie in things like mob AI and mechanics like combat and items that are missing (e.g. PE does not have shields and swords presumably still block).
*FWIW, these were added by Jeb, not Notch - they are still making poor design decisions to this day, including things like using 16 block IDs for Shulker boxes instead of just 1 (they are already tile entities so they could have just added a color tag, as with beds), or using excessive encapsulation like using an object for x,y,z coordinates.
The only other solution is to rewrite the Java edition to use Bedrock, which is a daunting task.
That's what i'm saying. Maybe Mojang could create an update to Java Edition to store data similarly to the Bedrock engine. I don't believe it would be that hard. I'm not a coding expert (I only know Scratch lol), but that's what I'm thinking.
But the real issue I would say is feature disparity. The Bedrock editions have set items and features that the Java version differs from. You would need both to have the same features to really make it work properly.
Microsoft and Mojang has been trying to focus on updating the Bedrock engine as much as possible. They are trying to make sure that the bedrock engine has as much features as the Java version. I think that's why videos saying like "This might be it for PC Minecraft" exist. It's almost there, but not quite. Maybe when it's fully catched up with the Java version, maybe they can do something.
I love starting up conversations like this! Thanks for everybody's posts!
Playststion not getting cross-platform play is entirely Sony's fault. As for Java edition they did basically rewrite most of the game's code in the 1.8 update (it's why most major modpacks are still played in 1.7) so they could definitely do it again to make it playable with the other versions, in addition to giving the other versions the handful of items and features that Java has that they still don't (Shields, Special Arrows, Fully functioning duel wielding, and command blocks).
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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I'm no expert in this, but I think the biggest issue so far is the ID's as well as how the Bedrock Edition lags behind/doesn't have certain features.
IF the IDs would be updated(...)
(this could be done via checking the World Version, so old Worlds after the update would show "outdated, will need to be converted" and once you start it up, MC will convert the World using the new IDs.(It's also best if this was done as a separate update with no other changes so the community doesn't get upset and still has a old version so to say))
(...) and if the Bedrock Version got all Features, as well as the PC Edition getting the Bedrock Exclusive Stuff, then it would theoretically be possible to do this.
However I believe that it will sadly not happen for various reasons:
The programming language and game engine have little to do with incompatibilities; rather, it is because of differences in various data formats like IDs; for example, in the PC edition each type of wooden fence uses its own block ID*, while in PE they use data values so only one ID is used (the same as oak fences in PC). More significant differences may lie in things like mob AI and mechanics like combat and items that are missing (e.g. PE does not have shields and swords presumably still block).
*FWIW, these were added by Jeb, not Notch - they are still making poor design decisions to this day, including things like using 16 block IDs for Shulker boxes instead of just 1 (they are already tile entities so they could have just added a color tag, as with beds), or using excessive encapsulation like using an object for x,y,z coordinates.
Hey, nice to see that there's users with such knowledge here as well.
16 block ids instead of sub ids so to say? oh come on...
It does feel that MC is more unoptimized those days.
Of course Notch did do the Java Version and it wasn't the most optimized thing back in the day, but the new stuff does feel way more unoptimized imo.
That's what i'm saying. Maybe Mojang could create an update to Java Edition to store data similarly to the Bedrock engine. I don't believe it would be that hard. I'm not a coding expert (I only know Scratch lol), but that's what I'm thinking.
Do think it's possible but I feel like Microsoft wouldn't want that to happen.
They're already hellbent with their NSA Spyware known as Windows 10(:P) and making only a Win10 Edition, so I think that's the biggest block in this.
Another thing, which I don't think is the reason through, is that I don't think you can compare the way you play on Mobile and Console on PC. Of course there's mobile tablets and controllers and there's always a few very skilled that can do this stuff even with just mobile controls. I don't think there's anything like "autoaim", but in a way it was surprising to see crossplay happening.
Guess between the consoles it did make the most sense but it's nice that they included PE as well as Win10(which does nullify the above mentioned point through)
Playststion not getting cross-platform play is entirely Sony's fault. As for Java edition they did basically rewrite most of the game's code in the 1.8 update (it's why most major modpacks are still played in 1.7) so they could definitely do it again to make it playable with the other versions, in addition to giving the other versions the handful of items and features that Java has that they still don't (Shields, Special Arrows, Fully functioning duel wielding, and command blocks).
Yeah, I heard. I think they denied it because they were concerned about little kids safety.
The "safety of the younger audience" thing was a bogus answer they gave to satisfy the press. They said since they wouldn't have full control over the newtworking anymore, it could expose their younger gamers to things Sony can't regulate. Really it's just Sony being a whiny baby and not wanting to share.
They said since they wouldn't have full control over the networking anymore, it could expose their younger gamers to things Sony can't regulate. Really it's just Sony being a whiny baby and not wanting to share.
Minecraft is rated E 10+, and it is almost entirely kid friendly. So I still don't get the point.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
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Posts:
63
Location:
California.
Minecraft:
GavinTheCrafter
Xbox:
gavinskycastle
Member Details
I think maybe Microsoft didn't make the Java version cross-compatible because the Java version is available for most OSes, while Windows 10 edition only works on Windows 10. Once again, it's just them pushing people to get Windows 10.
I've been playing Windows 10 edition lately, and I've noticed so many features are missing. I kept thinking for a block I needed to use, (e.g. armor stand,) I search it in the creative menu, and it isn't there. If Microsoft wants people to get Windows 10 edition, they should update it so that it has everything the Java Version had. I've been really annoyed by this, but we are getting off topic.
Recently, the Better Together update has allowed Windows 10, PE, Xbox One, and Nintendo Switch users to all play together. What annoys me is that they did not do this for Playstation or Java Edition! Besides Windows 10 edition (which I barely play), I own NONE of those versions! I only own all the Playstation versions, Xbox 360, and Java versions. And there is one in particular that I am very frustrated about: Java Edition. Now, I know what you are thinking, "Minecraft Java edition is coded in Java, and every other version is coded in C++! It's impossible!" and I have a solution to that. It's very simple: Take data about the world and the players (e.g. player skins, position of blocks and players) and just convert them so that the values will work on both versions!
I'm so frustrated that Microsoft & Mojang didn't do this!
If you have any comments on the topic, please reply below.
From what I understand, the thing that all the versions that got unified playing have in common, is that they run using the Bedrock game engine. The java edition on the game is hobbled together garbage written by Markus when he first worked on the game. The 2 systems are completely incompatible, and work in different protocols altogether, from what I've seen. This break in protocol means it's effectively impossible to unify games running the legacy engine with games running Bedrock, and doing so would require adding a middleman to all Bedrock servers to try to convert between legacy and bedrock protocols both ways, which would be extremely taxing. The only other solution is to rewrite the Java edition to use Bedrock, which is a daunting task.
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Moderatorpurbleguy basically has it right, except you actually could make them communicate the basic info needed through a lot of additional legwork. It would likely be buggy and broken and any changes made would take lots of extra work.
But the real issue I would say is feature disparity. The Bedrock editions have set items and features that the Java version differs from. You would need both to have the same features to really make it work properly.
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It is technically possible, but very unfeasable per the above posters.
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The programming language and game engine have little to do with incompatibilities; rather, it is because of differences in various data formats like IDs; for example, in the PC edition each type of wooden fence uses its own block ID*, while in PE they use data values so only one ID is used (the same as oak fences in PC). More significant differences may lie in things like mob AI and mechanics like combat and items that are missing (e.g. PE does not have shields and swords presumably still block).
*FWIW, these were added by Jeb, not Notch - they are still making poor design decisions to this day, including things like using 16 block IDs for Shulker boxes instead of just 1 (they are already tile entities so they could have just added a color tag, as with beds), or using excessive encapsulation like using an object for x,y,z coordinates.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
That's what i'm saying. Maybe Mojang could create an update to Java Edition to store data similarly to the Bedrock engine. I don't believe it would be that hard. I'm not a coding expert (I only know Scratch lol), but that's what I'm thinking.
Microsoft and Mojang has been trying to focus on updating the Bedrock engine as much as possible. They are trying to make sure that the bedrock engine has as much features as the Java version. I think that's why videos saying like "This might be it for PC Minecraft" exist. It's almost there, but not quite. Maybe when it's fully catched up with the Java version, maybe they can do something.
I love starting up conversations like this! Thanks for everybody's posts!
Playststion not getting cross-platform play is entirely Sony's fault. As for Java edition they did basically rewrite most of the game's code in the 1.8 update (it's why most major modpacks are still played in 1.7) so they could definitely do it again to make it playable with the other versions, in addition to giving the other versions the handful of items and features that Java has that they still don't (Shields, Special Arrows, Fully functioning duel wielding, and command blocks).
"Gamer Once"
"Gamer Always"
"Gamer For Life"
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Yeah, I heard. I think they denied it because they were concerned about little kids safety.
I'm no expert in this, but I think the biggest issue so far is the ID's as well as how the Bedrock Edition lags behind/doesn't have certain features.
IF the IDs would be updated(...)
(this could be done via checking the World Version, so old Worlds after the update would show "outdated, will need to be converted" and once you start it up, MC will convert the World using the new IDs.(It's also best if this was done as a separate update with no other changes so the community doesn't get upset and still has a old version so to say))
(...) and if the Bedrock Version got all Features, as well as the PC Edition getting the Bedrock Exclusive Stuff, then it would theoretically be possible to do this.
However I believe that it will sadly not happen for various reasons:
Hey, nice to see that there's users with such knowledge here as well.
16 block ids instead of sub ids so to say? oh come on...
It does feel that MC is more unoptimized those days.
Of course Notch did do the Java Version and it wasn't the most optimized thing back in the day, but the new stuff does feel way more unoptimized imo.
Do think it's possible but I feel like Microsoft wouldn't want that to happen.
They're already hellbent with their NSA Spyware known as Windows 10(:P) and making only a Win10 Edition, so I think that's the biggest block in this.
Another thing, which I don't think is the reason through, is that I don't think you can compare the way you play on Mobile and Console on PC. Of course there's mobile tablets and controllers and there's always a few very skilled that can do this stuff even with just mobile controls. I don't think there's anything like "autoaim", but in a way it was surprising to see crossplay happening.
Guess between the consoles it did make the most sense but it's nice that they included PE as well as Win10(which does nullify the above mentioned point through)
Really? It sucks to hear that.
Changes to Improve Furnace Minecarts!
(more of a Bugfix than anything,also Minecart Update!)
Improved Armor Textures, 1.8 Skins, Player Skins, Transpaceny and more!
The "safety of the younger audience" thing was a bogus answer they gave to satisfy the press. They said since they wouldn't have full control over the newtworking anymore, it could expose their younger gamers to things Sony can't regulate. Really it's just Sony being a whiny baby and not wanting to share.
"Gamer Once"
"Gamer Always"
"Gamer For Life"
-Gman Plays Games [Youtuber/Twitch Streamer]
Minecraft is rated E 10+, and it is almost entirely kid friendly. So I still don't get the point.
I think maybe Microsoft didn't make the Java version cross-compatible because the Java version is available for most OSes, while Windows 10 edition only works on Windows 10. Once again, it's just them pushing people to get Windows 10.
I've been playing Windows 10 edition lately, and I've noticed so many features are missing. I kept thinking for a block I needed to use, (e.g. armor stand,) I search it in the creative menu, and it isn't there. If Microsoft wants people to get Windows 10 edition, they should update it so that it has everything the Java Version had. I've been really annoyed by this, but we are getting off topic.