Welcome to the PC Suggestions section of the forum! This section is for people to post ideas and suggestions for improving the PC version of Minecraft (for other versions, look in the Discussion section of the forum for your version). This is a short list of guidelines for posting here that we ask you follow. It is broken into two parts: one for creating and maintaining a suggestion and one for giving feedback and criticism to a suggestion. But before we get into that, a general reminder that applies to both parts:
Guideline 0 - Follow all Forum Rules and Rules Specific to This Section. This must always be followed, no matter what. If you see people breaking the rules, use the "Report" function to let the forum staff know about it. Then leave that post be, the moderators will take any actions necessary.
Now, where were we?
Guidelines on Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
1 - Make sure you are in the right place. Mod and plugin ideas go here. If a mod is created for a suggestion then a thread for the mod should be made in the Mods section and discussion about the mod should be done in the mod's thread. You can link to the mod thread in your suggestion though, so people can try it out.
2 (New) - Search! Use the search feature to look for similar ideas before posting. If your idea is similar to a different suggestion that has been posted on within 30 days, your idea may be locked. But searching is about more than that. You can see what other people have thought about similar ideas in the past, look for common issues and concerns, and figure out all that stuff before you post your idea! It will make you and your idea look better.
3 - Make your title descriptive! It should describe your idea in a few words, to get people interested before they've even clicked your thread. Who would want to click on a boring old thread simply titled "My Idea" anyways? Side note: Stating a specific version number for your idea to be added is generally not needed. If an idea is added, it would be added whenever Mojang decides to.
4 - Know your audience. Mojang doesn't typically read these suggestions, they are just a fun way to talk about what you want in the game. So it is a good idea to address your idea towards other posters, not to Mojang themselves. On that note, you don't need to put what version you want the idea to be added in. If an idea is added, it would be added as soon as it is ready, no sooner or later.
5 - Details! Details! Details! If you post a suggestion, it is a good idea to add as much detail as you can. It doesn't need to be perfect, but if you provide a lot of detail, you're more likely to have a better discussion and you'll get better feedback. If you don't want to give any details that is fine, but you should post it in the Small Suggestions thread.
6 - Keep the Original Post (OP) updated. If you change something about your idea after getting feedback on it, you should edit the original post and update the information. If you say your new weapon does 5 damage in the original post and change it to 7 damage later, people will get confused if you don't update the original post to reflect the change.
7 - Be open to feedback. The whole point of this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That won't happen if you refuse to listen to what people think would make your idea better. You don't have to change every single thing that people want you to, but it is always a good idea to take other ideas into consideration even if you don't agree with them.
8 (New) - It's okay to have an unpopular idea. We all have ideas that we think are great, but other people think are bad.Sometimes a suggestion just isn't well liked, and while you can continue to discuss your idea (as long as the discussion is on topic and constructive), it is also okay to "throw in the towel" and let an idea die if you don't think it is going anywhere. Remember: This section is about having fun discussing game ideas, it isn't a life or death.
Note: This doesn't mean post awful ideas on purpose to annoy others. That is trolling and it is against the rules here.
9 - Follow the 5 "W"s. We've saved the best for last here. Every suggestion should be able to explain the Who, What, When, Where, and Why about their idea:
Who will the idea benefit the most? Is it the architecturally inclined Builder? The daring Explorer? The brave PvPer? Or is it the Server Admin, who controls and sees all?
What is the idea? If you somehow miss this part of your suggestion you probably aren't ready to post your suggestion at all. Take a step back and figure out exactly what you want.
When/Where will the idea take place? Is it a new mob that only exists in one biome? Is it an event that happens once ever 15 in-game days? (Hey, two "W"s for the price of one bullet? What a bargain!)
Why should this be added? Not only should you be able to explain the benefits of your suggestion, but you should also be able to explain possible risks and drawbacks to your idea. And remember, "Why not?" is never a good reason to add something to the game.
Guidelines on Giving Feedback on a Suggestion
1 - Be kind and respectful of other's ideas. You don't have to agree with everyone's ideas, but if you disagree you can do so politely.
2 - Be helpful and constructive. As said above, this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That doesn't happen if you don't give people helpful feedback. You can say "I don't like this and that and this and that" all you want but that doesn't tell them how to improve the idea. Instead, say what you think would be a good alternative that would make both of you happy.
3 - Judge the idea by its own merit. That means you should look at the actual idea and decide if you want it in the game. It doesn't matter if the presentation isn't perfect, they didn't include every possible detail, or if similar threads have been posted before (unless a similar thread has been posted on in the last 30 days, report them and give us a link to the existing thread).
4 - Avoid the "Hivemind" (this goes along with Guideline 3). When giving feedback on an idea, go ahead and agree with others if they share the same sentiments as you do. But you should decide if you like or dislike an idea based on the idea, not what others think of it. Just because an idea is "normally disliked" doesn't mean you have to dislike it too. Your thoughts are important, so don't let others do your thinking for you.
5 - Don't fall into an endless argument. You don't have to like every idea, and the person who made the thread doesn't have to agree with all your feedback. People do not need to constantly repeat their arguments to each other. If it really looks like someone doesn't want to use your feedback, there isn't much point in continuing to argue. Personally, if I can't convince someone after three posts, that is normally when I decide to move on.
6 - Have fun with it! If there is one thing that I've seen in this section is that people take it far too seriously. No that doesn't mean people can post anything they want (if you think someone is making joke threads or trolling, report them). What it means is that you shouldn't treat this section like if one too many people have a bad idea then Mojang is going to stop working on Minecraft and make it impossible to play anymore.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
I don't even need my name on this. There was just a ton of helpful stuff the previous guides had that I don't see here. I don't know if you were joking or not, but more people chipped in on that part of the guide then just me. I also think the guide should mention not to tell people they're being reported next to the "report them" text, just for good measure.
I might as well say this now because I can't hold it in. I deeply miss Theriasis' comical tone. =.{
Me too.
But yeah, I was joking. I tried to make that evident by saying "in all seriousness," suggesting what I said before was in sarcasm, and by recommending your guide as well.
Is there really any valid reason to have such an in-depth guide as the prior two? There isn't a guide telling people how to create mod threads, nor server threads, nor video threads. Even the most similar forum to the Suggestions forum -- the Requests/Ideas for Mods forum -- doesn't have such a pinned thread for how to post there. I think people take the Suggestions forum far too seriously, considering Mojang most certainly will never see (and would never seriously consider) 99% of the Suggestion forum threads.
In my opinion, the guide should be as simple as possible -- just enough to get people started. People should be able to post their own suggestions however they like, so long as they follow the forum rules. The prior guides just gave a handful of forum users an excuse to bash every thread that didn't adhere to the guides standards to their satisfaction, and both of the prior guides were bloated to the point of being completely useless for 99% of the forum users wanting to post suggestions.
Well, it is your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.
I did try to move away from enabling flamers/basher; though I certainly do agree with the idea of bloat; it was a bit heavy there, but not anything that couldn't have been avoided. In any case; this is certainly is a simple guide.
Is there really any valid reason to have such an in-depth guide as the prior two? There isn't a guide telling people how to create mod threads, nor server threads, nor video threads. Even the most similar forum to the Suggestions forum -- the Requests/Ideas for Mods forum -- doesn't have such a pinned thread for how to post there. I think people take the Suggestions forum far too seriously, considering Mojang most certainly will never see (and would never seriously consider) 99% of the Suggestion forum threads.
In my opinion, the guide should be as simple as possible -- just enough to get people started. People should be able to post their own suggestions however they like, so long as they follow the forum rules. The prior guides just gave a handful of forum users an excuse to bash every thread that didn't adhere to the guides standards to their satisfaction, and both of the prior guides were bloated to the point of being completely useless for 99% of the forum users wanting to post suggestions.
You make a compelling argument. I think the best thing here is for us all to just point out things that the guide is missing and needs rather than just pointing out how it's smaller than before. I do agree with you here.
What happen with megathreads (colective suggestions/discussive suggestions) and vague suggestions? And what about vague/bad argumentations? Are now allowed?
These guide threads have never been for establishing the rules. Click here for those, this thread is just for guidelines on how to make good suggestions or criticisms, assuming you're already following the rules to begin with.
Well, it is your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.
I did try to move away from enabling flamers/basher; though I certainly do agree with the idea of bloat; it was a bit heavy there, but not anything that couldn't have been avoided. In any case; this is certainly is a simple guide.
I should have made my post a bit clearer. When I mentioned "both" guides, I was talking about the v1 and v2 "read this before posting" guides, not your "for the critics" guide. Obviously, your guide did not enable or increase users likelihood to bash threads.
I should have made my post a bit clearer. When I mentioned "both" guides, I was talking about the v1 and v2 "read this before posting" guides, not your "for the critics" guide. Obviously, your guide did not enable or increase users likelihood to bash threads.
Ah, well, not that FTC was flawless either XD. Either way, apologies for the confusion. But this does alleviate my burden to curate as it's also been unpinned. It was by moderator whim that it was pinned in the first place. It doesn't break my heart that it was also unpinned.
Well... I see the new guide has taken off! Hooray- wait it's done already?
To be honest... this is a bit... lacklustre, especially compared to the really interesting style and sheer amount of content in the last two threads, both of which helped me a lot when trying to post here. This is more of a... "Here's some tips now GO DO IT YOURSELF" sort of thing, which might confuse newbies and make them more like ly to post detailed walls of text on adding herobrine to the game. Also, what happened to balance, the overachievers guide, balance, dealing with failure, balance, how to make your ideas original, and balance?
If Theriasis wants to have her thread unlocked and be available as an *unpinned* thread, she is free to request that. The reason why the new thread is so small and to-the-point is that as time went on, it was becoming more and more obvious to some of the forum staff that a giant, all-encompassing guide was simply not beneficial enough as a pinned thread and went against some of the other philosophies of the forum (such as the simplified forum rules pages and the distinct lack of posting guides anywhere else on the forums).
As far as the importance of posting suggestions that are balanced, original, etc., in my opinion, so long as people follow the forum rules, let them post what they want to post. If there is an unofficial guide available to help users refine their suggestions, then that would be OK, but the constant pestering of people to "read the guide" seemed to be causing an increasingly negative environment and was becoming more of an irritation to the forum staff due to forum users acting like it was a set of "unofficial" forum rules for the Suggestions forum.
I don't really mind the new guide. It can improve over time, and maybe simplifying it is the way to go.
But I do have one teenytiny issue. It's a bit bland. I know it's very nit-picky but right now with the formatting, it kind of looks like a boring wall of text and I had a hard time getting into it so I could actually... Well, read it. So it'd be nice if we had a little more effort into the formatting, at least spaces between the points would be somewhat nicer.
I don't really mind the new guide. It can improve over time, and maybe simplifying it is the way to go.
But I do have one teenytiny issue. It's a bit bland. I know it's very nit-picky but right now with the formatting, it kind of looks like a boring wall of text and I had a hard time getting into it so I could actually... Well, read it. So it'd be nice if we had a little more effort into the formatting, at least spaces between the points would be somewhat nicer.
Well I was responding to this and accidentally clicked out so I'll give the cliff notes of what I was saying before.
I agree the formatting needs improvement. That was something I had mentioned was a problem with it in testing but it is "content complete" (which can be adjusted later as needed). I'm all for feedback on the formatting, and I'll be able to make it prettier now that I am on vacation from work.
On other people saying this is lacking a lot of information from the other threads: It is, and that is partially the point. While both of those threads have a lot of useful information, they also have some no-so-useful information and a LOT of bulk. That kind of goes against what we try to do with guides and rules, which is to keep it short and sweet.
The former Suggestion guide and FTC threads were getting about 10 and 2 views per day, respectively. Most of the people viewing the threads were people posting on them, which were the people already familiar with them. Guides aren't helpful if nobody is reading them. I don't know if this one will get more views, it certainly is right now but that is probably because it is new. It remains to be seen.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
Was there a survey or at least some sort of vote held for this? I mean I don't want to say anything bad about this, but this guide still has things left out that both this and the critics one had. For example, the last guide had stuff about bad excuses and how not to present your thread, and all of that is just... gone now.
I was wondering if I could still link people to the previous guide? If someone says something like "it's balanced because it's rare" - "if you don't like the idea then don't posssst!!!" - or even "ppl don't agree are trolling" I can show them the old guide that explains why you can't use those weird arguments.
This also isn't very, like everyone else said, very attention gripping even though this is brief. It just feels like a whatever-I'm-gonna-skip-reading-this guide because it's no different than a server's basic MOTD.
Was there a survey or at least some sort of vote held for this? I mean I don't want to say anything bad about this, but this guide still has things left out that both this and the critics one had. For example, the last guide had stuff about bad excuses and how not to present your thread, and all of that is just... gone now.
I was wondering if I could still link people to the previous guide? If someone says something like "it's balanced because it's rare" - "if you don't like the idea then don't posssst!!!" - or even "ppl don't agree are trolling" I can show them the old guide that explains why you can't use those weird arguments.
I will be following the principles of the old guide. I am a critic. I judge things by standards. If I don't, my criticism is wishy-washy and unfair. All the principles of the old guide, from balance to presentation, were excellent more-or-less objective measurements of a suggestion. And there's no reason not to send people to something that allows them to learn how to make good suggestions. Just make sure it's not in an exasperated or commanding tone. We're here to help, not command.
I'm planning on adding a guideline on formatting to the first part of this, probably with a quick list of formatting tips in a spoiler. But I'm also trying to keep the lists balanced with an equal number of of guidelines for both sides. Is there any major guideline for giving feedback that I am missing?
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
I'm planning on adding a guideline on formatting to the first part of this, probably with a quick list of formatting tips in a spoiler. But I'm also trying to keep the lists balanced with an equal number of of guidelines for both sides. Is there any major guideline for giving feedback that I am missing?
How about "Think about why your suggestion should be in the game." If you don't have a reason, or your reason is poor, then your suggestion won't work. It will fold too easily under pressure from critics. Forget balance, presentation, and the rest. This is the number one thing a suggester should keep in mind. Even if it's not a good reason, if the guideline is followed it will at least have people think about exactly what the purpose of the suggestion is and what they are trying to accomplish with it. And that's good, because it's the only part of your suggestion that can't be made better after your suggestion's made.
As for the critics... eh, I've got nothing that isn't obvious.
How about "Think about why your suggestion should be in the game." If you don't have a reason, or your reason is poor, then your suggestion won't work. It will fold too easily under pressure from critics. Forget balance, presentation, and the rest. This is the number one thing a suggester should keep in mind. Even if it's not a good reason, if the guideline is followed it will at least have people think about exactly what the purpose of the suggestion is and what they are trying to accomplish with it. And that's good, because it's the only part of your suggestion that can't be made better after your suggestion's made.
As for the critics... eh, I've got nothing that isn't obvious.
That's a really good one. It kind of puts me in an awkward position because it makes it even harder to make both lists of guidelines equal, but that was more for my love of symmetry than anything else so screw it. I will probably update it sometime over the next few days, I have Friday through Monday off of work for the holidays so any other feedback (especially on formatting, as one of the major things people have mentioned with this is that it isn't very interesting visually) until then would be appreciated.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
That's a really good one. It kind of puts me in an awkward position because it makes it even harder to make both lists of guidelines equal, but that was more for my love of symmetry than anything else so screw it. I will probably update it sometime over the next few days, I have Friday through Monday off of work for the holidays so any other feedback (especially on formatting, as one of the major things people have mentioned with this is that it isn't very interesting visually) until then would be appreciated.
I'd say making each guideline distinct from the others would be a good idea. Right now they're all clustered into one enormous section. Even with the bold it looks like a wall of text. Something like...
Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
1 - Make sure you are in the right place. Mod and plugin ideas go here. If a mod is created for a suggestion then a thread for the mod should be made in the Mods section and discussion about the mod should be done in the mod's thread. You can link to the mod thread in your suggestion though, so people can try it out.
2 - Make your title descriptive! It should describe your idea in a few words, to get people interested before they've even clicked your thread. Who would want to click on a boring old thread simply titled "My Idea" anyways?
3 - Know your audience.Mojang doesn't typically read these suggestions, they are just a fun way to talk about what you want in the game. So it is a good idea to address your idea towards other posters, not to Mojang themselves. On that note, you don't need to put what version you want the idea to be added in. If an idea is added, it would be added as soon as it is ready, no sooner or later.
4 - Details! Details! Details!If you post a suggestion, it is a good idea to add as much detail as you can. It doesn't need to be perfect, but if you provide a lot of detail, you're more likely to have a better discussion and you'll get better feedback. If you don't want to give any details that is fine, but you should post it in the Small Suggestions thread.
5 - Keep the Original Post (OP) updated.If you change something about your idea after getting feedback on it, you should edit the original post and update the information. If you say your new weapon does 5 damage in the original post and change it to 7 damage later, people will get confused if you don't update the original post to reflect the change.
6 - Be open to feedback. The whole point of this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That won't happen if you refuse to listen to what people think would make your idea better. You don't have to change every single thing that people want you to, but it is always a good idea to take other ideas into consideration even if you don't agree with them.
Something I noticed while playing around here- Putting "Guideline X" isn't as good as just starting with a number because it kind of makes them blend together. That said, starting with a number makes these seem a bit more authoritative, less like guidelines and more like rules. I believe that only requires one change to fix, though:
Guidelines to Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
A bit of reinforcement in the title instead of on every single guideline.
I'd say doing a runthrough of FTC and pulling out a few golden eggs from what I wrote and recodifying it in your own words would do wonders.
"Common sense isn't." - A phrase I like to throw around; it's a 3 word ditty that is meant to expand to "common sense isn't common nor sensical" but that just waxes heavily on redundancy. Because of this, having a hard-nosed logic behind some rhetorical fallacies and the reasons to not use them can be a useful measure for people. Traps to avoid as anyone responding to a suggestion; etc.
Basically, it's a bit of a plug to reuse some of the points I stress and include them here. I put a great deal of work into FTC; I'd hate to see it all go to waste :). /panhandle
ALSO: Minimod avoidance 101: How to report someone (let's call them "Sam") for violating a rule.
1) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
2) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
3) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
4) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
5) report them with a detailed reason
6) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
7) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
8) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
9) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
10) press back and leave the thread or proceed with the argument you were going to make.
11) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
12) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
ALSO, don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
Did I miss anything?...
Oh, right, before I forget, don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
I'll dig through it for ideas, but on the issue of reporting people, we used to have that issue quite a bit but now we have a different one. Instead of people telling others they are reporting them we have 30 people saying "don't break rule x" (which is basically spam after the second post saying it AND it does nothing but keep bad threads at the front page), but literally only 1 person will actually report it, and they only do sometimes.
If half of the people in this section actually used the report function like they were supposed to instead of trying to take the rules into their own hands like it is the old west we would have way less warnings going out to users for flaming, off topic posts, and trollcalling. That is a forum-wide issue but it seems to be extra prevalent here.
On that note I know people think we are ineffective against trolls but they don't realize how much more difficult it is to warn for that than other things. We need solid evidence of repeated offenses that are obviously malicious, and we go through post history and the like to look for it. More often than not we have to wait because most trolls are great at skirting the lines of the rules, so it takes a while to have them slip up or give us enough to use.
But most importantly, a member isn't outright trolling just because they have a suggestion other users don't like, even if it is a rather terrible idea in general.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
Suggestions was always the wildest part of the MCForum. It wasn't the nastiest, but it was certainly wild. Anyone who thought they had a good idea ran to post here, which I guess the guide did help cut down on at first- but nobody reads the guide anymore, so I'm pretty impartial to the whole thing. Me, I might be moving on to reddit.
There's a significant amount of passion here. Vanilla Minecraft is the foundation for everything, and everyone wants the absolute best for it. This is (broadly speaking) a forum specifically devoted to arguing about what is best for Minecraft. Negativity is a given by design. Of course, standards were an inevitable creation, just like in any medium in which criticism exists.
I don't know very much what Reddit is like, but if you do move on best of luck.
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Retired StaffGuidelines for the Suggestions Section
Welcome to the PC Suggestions section of the forum! This section is for people to post ideas and suggestions for improving the PC version of Minecraft (for other versions, look in the Discussion section of the forum for your version). This is a short list of guidelines for posting here that we ask you follow. It is broken into two parts: one for creating and maintaining a suggestion and one for giving feedback and criticism to a suggestion. But before we get into that, a general reminder that applies to both parts:
Guideline 0 - Follow all Forum Rules and Rules Specific to This Section. This must always be followed, no matter what. If you see people breaking the rules, use the "Report" function to let the forum staff know about it. Then leave that post be, the moderators will take any actions necessary.
Now, where were we?
Guidelines on Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
1 - Make sure you are in the right place. Mod and plugin ideas go here. If a mod is created for a suggestion then a thread for the mod should be made in the Mods section and discussion about the mod should be done in the mod's thread. You can link to the mod thread in your suggestion though, so people can try it out.
2 (New) - Search! Use the search feature to look for similar ideas before posting. If your idea is similar to a different suggestion that has been posted on within 30 days, your idea may be locked. But searching is about more than that. You can see what other people have thought about similar ideas in the past, look for common issues and concerns, and figure out all that stuff before you post your idea! It will make you and your idea look better.
3 - Make your title descriptive! It should describe your idea in a few words, to get people interested before they've even clicked your thread. Who would want to click on a boring old thread simply titled "My Idea" anyways? Side note: Stating a specific version number for your idea to be added is generally not needed. If an idea is added, it would be added whenever Mojang decides to.
4 - Know your audience. Mojang doesn't typically read these suggestions, they are just a fun way to talk about what you want in the game. So it is a good idea to address your idea towards other posters, not to Mojang themselves. On that note, you don't need to put what version you want the idea to be added in. If an idea is added, it would be added as soon as it is ready, no sooner or later.
5 - Details! Details! Details! If you post a suggestion, it is a good idea to add as much detail as you can. It doesn't need to be perfect, but if you provide a lot of detail, you're more likely to have a better discussion and you'll get better feedback. If you don't want to give any details that is fine, but you should post it in the Small Suggestions thread.
6 - Keep the Original Post (OP) updated. If you change something about your idea after getting feedback on it, you should edit the original post and update the information. If you say your new weapon does 5 damage in the original post and change it to 7 damage later, people will get confused if you don't update the original post to reflect the change.
7 - Be open to feedback. The whole point of this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That won't happen if you refuse to listen to what people think would make your idea better. You don't have to change every single thing that people want you to, but it is always a good idea to take other ideas into consideration even if you don't agree with them.
8 (New) - It's okay to have an unpopular idea. We all have ideas that we think are great, but other people think are bad.Sometimes a suggestion just isn't well liked, and while you can continue to discuss your idea (as long as the discussion is on topic and constructive), it is also okay to "throw in the towel" and let an idea die if you don't think it is going anywhere. Remember: This section is about having fun discussing game ideas, it isn't a life or death.
Note: This doesn't mean post awful ideas on purpose to annoy others. That is trolling and it is against the rules here.
9 - Follow the 5 "W"s. We've saved the best for last here. Every suggestion should be able to explain the Who, What, When, Where, and Why about their idea:
Guidelines on Giving Feedback on a Suggestion
1 - Be kind and respectful of other's ideas. You don't have to agree with everyone's ideas, but if you disagree you can do so politely.
2 - Be helpful and constructive. As said above, this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That doesn't happen if you don't give people helpful feedback. You can say "I don't like this and that and this and that" all you want but that doesn't tell them how to improve the idea. Instead, say what you think would be a good alternative that would make both of you happy.
3 - Judge the idea by its own merit. That means you should look at the actual idea and decide if you want it in the game. It doesn't matter if the presentation isn't perfect, they didn't include every possible detail, or if similar threads have been posted before (unless a similar thread has been posted on in the last 30 days, report them and give us a link to the existing thread).
4 - Avoid the "Hivemind" (this goes along with Guideline 3). When giving feedback on an idea, go ahead and agree with others if they share the same sentiments as you do. But you should decide if you like or dislike an idea based on the idea, not what others think of it. Just because an idea is "normally disliked" doesn't mean you have to dislike it too. Your thoughts are important, so don't let others do your thinking for you.
5 - Don't fall into an endless argument. You don't have to like every idea, and the person who made the thread doesn't have to agree with all your feedback. People do not need to constantly repeat their arguments to each other. If it really looks like someone doesn't want to use your feedback, there isn't much point in continuing to argue. Personally, if I can't convince someone after three posts, that is normally when I decide to move on.
6 - Have fun with it! If there is one thing that I've seen in this section is that people take it far too seriously. No that doesn't mean people can post anything they want (if you think someone is making joke threads or trolling, report them). What it means is that you shouldn't treat this section like if one too many people have a bad idea then Mojang is going to stop working on Minecraft and make it impossible to play anymore.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Me too.
But yeah, I was joking. I tried to make that evident by saying "in all seriousness," suggesting what I said before was in sarcasm, and by recommending your guide as well.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
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ModeratorIs there really any valid reason to have such an in-depth guide as the prior two? There isn't a guide telling people how to create mod threads, nor server threads, nor video threads. Even the most similar forum to the Suggestions forum -- the Requests/Ideas for Mods forum -- doesn't have such a pinned thread for how to post there. I think people take the Suggestions forum far too seriously, considering Mojang most certainly will never see (and would never seriously consider) 99% of the Suggestion forum threads.
In my opinion, the guide should be as simple as possible -- just enough to get people started. People should be able to post their own suggestions however they like, so long as they follow the forum rules. The prior guides just gave a handful of forum users an excuse to bash every thread that didn't adhere to the guides standards to their satisfaction, and both of the prior guides were bloated to the point of being completely useless for 99% of the forum users wanting to post suggestions.
- sunperp
Well, it is your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it.
I did try to move away from enabling flamers/basher; though I certainly do agree with the idea of bloat; it was a bit heavy there, but not anything that couldn't have been avoided. In any case; this is certainly is a simple guide.
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You make a compelling argument. I think the best thing here is for us all to just point out things that the guide is missing and needs rather than just pointing out how it's smaller than before. I do agree with you here.
These guide threads have never been for establishing the rules. Click here for those, this thread is just for guidelines on how to make good suggestions or criticisms, assuming you're already following the rules to begin with.
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ModeratorI should have made my post a bit clearer. When I mentioned "both" guides, I was talking about the v1 and v2 "read this before posting" guides, not your "for the critics" guide. Obviously, your guide did not enable or increase users likelihood to bash threads.
- sunperp
Ah, well, not that FTC was flawless either XD. Either way, apologies for the confusion. But this does alleviate my burden to curate as it's also been unpinned. It was by moderator whim that it was pinned in the first place. It doesn't break my heart that it was also unpinned.
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ModeratorIf Theriasis wants to have her thread unlocked and be available as an *unpinned* thread, she is free to request that. The reason why the new thread is so small and to-the-point is that as time went on, it was becoming more and more obvious to some of the forum staff that a giant, all-encompassing guide was simply not beneficial enough as a pinned thread and went against some of the other philosophies of the forum (such as the simplified forum rules pages and the distinct lack of posting guides anywhere else on the forums).
As far as the importance of posting suggestions that are balanced, original, etc., in my opinion, so long as people follow the forum rules, let them post what they want to post. If there is an unofficial guide available to help users refine their suggestions, then that would be OK, but the constant pestering of people to "read the guide" seemed to be causing an increasingly negative environment and was becoming more of an irritation to the forum staff due to forum users acting like it was a set of "unofficial" forum rules for the Suggestions forum.
- sunperp
I don't really mind the new guide. It can improve over time, and maybe simplifying it is the way to go.
But I do have one teeny tiny issue. It's a bit bland. I know it's very nit-picky but right now with the formatting, it kind of looks like a boring wall of text and I had a hard time getting into it so I could actually... Well, read it. So it'd be nice if we had a little more effort into the formatting, at least spaces between the points would be somewhat nicer.
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Retired StaffWell I was responding to this and accidentally clicked out so I'll give the cliff notes of what I was saying before.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Was there a survey or at least some sort of vote held for this? I mean I don't want to say anything bad about this, but this guide still has things left out that both this and the critics one had. For example, the last guide had stuff about bad excuses and how not to present your thread, and all of that is just... gone now.
I was wondering if I could still link people to the previous guide? If someone says something like "it's balanced because it's rare" - "if you don't like the idea then don't posssst!!!" - or even "ppl don't agree are trolling" I can show them the old guide that explains why you can't use those weird arguments.
This also isn't very, like everyone else said, very attention gripping even though this is brief. It just feels like a whatever-I'm-gonna-skip-reading-this guide because it's no different than a server's basic MOTD.
I will be following the principles of the old guide. I am a critic. I judge things by standards. If I don't, my criticism is wishy-washy and unfair. All the principles of the old guide, from balance to presentation, were excellent more-or-less objective measurements of a suggestion. And there's no reason not to send people to something that allows them to learn how to make good suggestions. Just make sure it's not in an exasperated or commanding tone. We're here to help, not command.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
Easy there, scout. Turn your 11 into a 2.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/44180 FTC
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2572194 PRT
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Retired StaffI'm planning on adding a guideline on formatting to the first part of this, probably with a quick list of formatting tips in a spoiler. But I'm also trying to keep the lists balanced with an equal number of of guidelines for both sides. Is there any major guideline for giving feedback that I am missing?
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
How about "Think about why your suggestion should be in the game." If you don't have a reason, or your reason is poor, then your suggestion won't work. It will fold too easily under pressure from critics. Forget balance, presentation, and the rest. This is the number one thing a suggester should keep in mind. Even if it's not a good reason, if the guideline is followed it will at least have people think about exactly what the purpose of the suggestion is and what they are trying to accomplish with it. And that's good, because it's the only part of your suggestion that can't be made better after your suggestion's made.
As for the critics... eh, I've got nothing that isn't obvious.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
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Retired StaffThat's a really good one. It kind of puts me in an awkward position because it makes it even harder to make both lists of guidelines equal, but that was more for my love of symmetry than anything else so screw it. I will probably update it sometime over the next few days, I have Friday through Monday off of work for the holidays so any other feedback (especially on formatting, as one of the major things people have mentioned with this is that it isn't very interesting visually) until then would be appreciated.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I'd say making each guideline distinct from the others would be a good idea. Right now they're all clustered into one enormous section. Even with the bold it looks like a wall of text. Something like...
Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
1 - Make sure you are in the right place. Mod and plugin ideas go here. If a mod is created for a suggestion then a thread for the mod should be made in the Mods section and discussion about the mod should be done in the mod's thread. You can link to the mod thread in your suggestion though, so people can try it out.
2 - Make your title descriptive! It should describe your idea in a few words, to get people interested before they've even clicked your thread. Who would want to click on a boring old thread simply titled "My Idea" anyways?
3 - Know your audience. Mojang doesn't typically read these suggestions, they are just a fun way to talk about what you want in the game. So it is a good idea to address your idea towards other posters, not to Mojang themselves. On that note, you don't need to put what version you want the idea to be added in. If an idea is added, it would be added as soon as it is ready, no sooner or later.
4 - Details! Details! Details! If you post a suggestion, it is a good idea to add as much detail as you can. It doesn't need to be perfect, but if you provide a lot of detail, you're more likely to have a better discussion and you'll get better feedback. If you don't want to give any details that is fine, but you should post it in the Small Suggestions thread.
5 - Keep the Original Post (OP) updated. If you change something about your idea after getting feedback on it, you should edit the original post and update the information. If you say your new weapon does 5 damage in the original post and change it to 7 damage later, people will get confused if you don't update the original post to reflect the change.
6 - Be open to feedback. The whole point of this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That won't happen if you refuse to listen to what people think would make your idea better. You don't have to change every single thing that people want you to, but it is always a good idea to take other ideas into consideration even if you don't agree with them.
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Something I noticed while playing around here- Putting "Guideline X" isn't as good as just starting with a number because it kind of makes them blend together. That said, starting with a number makes these seem a bit more authoritative, less like guidelines and more like rules. I believe that only requires one change to fix, though:
Guidelines to Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
A bit of reinforcement in the title instead of on every single guideline.
What do you guys think?
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
I'd say doing a runthrough of FTC and pulling out a few golden eggs from what I wrote and recodifying it in your own words would do wonders.
"Common sense isn't." - A phrase I like to throw around; it's a 3 word ditty that is meant to expand to "common sense isn't common nor sensical" but that just waxes heavily on redundancy. Because of this, having a hard-nosed logic behind some rhetorical fallacies and the reasons to not use them can be a useful measure for people. Traps to avoid as anyone responding to a suggestion; etc.
Basically, it's a bit of a plug to reuse some of the points I stress and include them here. I put a great deal of work into FTC; I'd hate to see it all go to waste :). /panhandle
ALSO: Minimod avoidance 101: How to report someone (let's call them "Sam") for violating a rule.
1) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
2) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
3) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
4) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
5) report them with a detailed reason
6) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
7) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
8) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
9) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
10) press back and leave the thread or proceed with the argument you were going to make.
11) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
12) don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
ALSO, don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
Did I miss anything?...
Oh, right, before I forget, don't tell Sam you're reporting them.
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Retired StaffI'll dig through it for ideas, but on the issue of reporting people, we used to have that issue quite a bit but now we have a different one. Instead of people telling others they are reporting them we have 30 people saying "don't break rule x" (which is basically spam after the second post saying it AND it does nothing but keep bad threads at the front page), but literally only 1 person will actually report it, and they only do sometimes.
If half of the people in this section actually used the report function like they were supposed to instead of trying to take the rules into their own hands like it is the old west we would have way less warnings going out to users for flaming, off topic posts, and trollcalling. That is a forum-wide issue but it seems to be extra prevalent here.
On that note I know people think we are ineffective against trolls but they don't realize how much more difficult it is to warn for that than other things. We need solid evidence of repeated offenses that are obviously malicious, and we go through post history and the like to look for it. More often than not we have to wait because most trolls are great at skirting the lines of the rules, so it takes a while to have them slip up or give us enough to use.
But most importantly, a member isn't outright trolling just because they have a suggestion other users don't like, even if it is a rather terrible idea in general.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
There's a significant amount of passion here. Vanilla Minecraft is the foundation for everything, and everyone wants the absolute best for it. This is (broadly speaking) a forum specifically devoted to arguing about what is best for Minecraft. Negativity is a given by design. Of course, standards were an inevitable creation, just like in any medium in which criticism exists.
I don't know very much what Reddit is like, but if you do move on best of luck.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.