There are a couple of mods out there that have solved the problem of non-renewable flowers/mushrooms with farm plots. I think that letting players grow their own flowers and mushrooms, both naturally and in farm plots, would be an excellent complement to the natural spawning system in part two. I don't know many of the specifics behind these mods, but here's how I would set it up.
Flowers and mushrooms can now be planted on farm plots. They won't spread to anything but a farm plot, and they won't be included in the chunk check for natural spread (explained below). To plant a flower, you need a seed, and to plant a mushroom, you need spawn (mycologist terminology). Both of these items can be obtained by right-clicking on the plant in question with the hoe. This will destroy the plant and drop 1-2 seeds for flowers, or 1-2 spawn for mushrooms.
The mushrooms and flowers I'm suggesting will grow in stages, like wheat. Starting as little sprouts and growing into the mature flowers we see in game today over a variety of stages. Mushrooms will, of course, require a much darker plot to grow on (thanks for the reminder, trickytaco). Any flower or mushroom can be planted in irrigated farm plots, to spread quickly and unhindered to adjacent plots, or on the ground to grow naturally.
However in order to have natural growth, we have to limit their area and number somehow, right?
Part 2: Natural Spread With Chunk-Based Limitation
As most of you know, flowers and mushrooms don't renew themselves in the game. Notch has said that this is because it's difficult to make them do so without having them spread all over the world. I think I might have a solution to this.
The game works by generating (relatively) small chunks of land. Would there be a way to link the respawn of these plants to a per-chunk basis?
Let's say, to illustrate, that I generate a map and start exploring. The game seeds its flowers and mushrooms as usual, except this time there are a few rules it will follow afterward.
1. In the middle of the night cycle, every chunk containing any type of flower or mushroom is looked at. The game will find out how many of each type of plant is in the chunk, and if it is under twelve for any plant, the game will add two to three sprouts of that plant near the others.
2. Any sprouts added will only appear in a chunk that already has a number of their respective plants.
3. If a chunk doesn't have a type of plant in it when the check is made, no sprouts will be added of that type to that chunk.
4. If the amount of a certain plant in a chunk is over twelve when the check is made, no plants will be added of that type to that chunk.
What this all means:
Flowers and mushrooms will be able to grow in any chunk they're already present in, as long as there is less than twelve of their type. No plant will be able to overpopulate the land without player intervention because they're limited per chunk. No sprout can be spawned in a plantless chunk until the player manually places a plant there.
This solves a number of problems, assuming its possible. Flowers and mushrooms will now replenish their population bit by bit overnight until they hit twelve in a chunk. They'll then stop spreading. This gives us spreading, renewable plants without overpopulating the land and caves with them.
This also lets players introduce flowers and mushrooms to new chunks by seeding an area with a few plants and waiting for them to spread and grow.
Questions?
"Why only twelve of each plant type per chunk?"
Chunks are relatively small, 16x16x128 if I'm correct (if I'm not please let me know). This means each chunk has a surface area of 256 blocks. If we have 24 individual mushrooms (12 red and 12 beige) growing in the caves or under trees, and 24 individual flowers (12 red and 12 yellow) on the surface, the top area should appear fairly lush, with mushrooms growing in small sections of the caves or under trees.
Since the world-gen spawns are likely to overlap chunks in a few places, that's even more flowers and mushrooms that will grow overtime. I think 12 of each type of plant per chunk is a decent balance between spreading naturally and taking over the world.
"What if I want more than twelve roses in a chunk? Will the others die when I place more?"
Nope, the check never takes away plants, it just adds a few sprouts per night if there are less than twelve and more than zero. Your roses won't spread in a chunk that is full of them, but you can place as many as you want.
"Can I replant flowers I've picked still? I don't want to have to grow a whole garden from scratch!"
Yes, you can replant picked flowers, they'll be placed at full maturity and they'll spread sprouts around them to other land (assuming they're the first of their kind in the chunk) and farm plots. The seed/spawn drops and the growing stages are only there to deepen the farming mechanic and make the world seem less abrupt. Instead of waking up to find your yard full of flowers, you might wake up to find that a few sprouts have popped up, and they'll grow into flowers in a few days if left to themselves.
"What's the point of being able to grow them on farm plots if they spread on grass?"
In an irrigated farm plot, flowers and mushrooms will grow much more quickly, the amount that you can have in a chunk is only limited by how many farm plots you have. This lets players have the mushroom and flower farms that they've always wanted, and it lets them make these as large as they want without affecting the natural spawning system.
One last note, remember that natural plants won't spread to farm plots, and farm plot plants won't spread to anything but other nearby plots. This allows the player to maintain control of the plants should they require it.
That's all I've got. I hope it's clear enough. I know it's a bit of a read but I wanted to make sure the idea was communicated in full. What do you guys think?
I fully agree. It's always bothered me that there's so few mushrooms and (to a much lesser extent) flowers. A question though: If I wanted to place a row of flowers in front of my house, on normal grass, it would then spread right? what if I wanted to limit that spread, while still keeping grass underneath (instead of a farm plot)
I fully agree. It's always bothered me that there's so few mushrooms and (to a much lesser extent) flowers. A question though: If I wanted to place a row of flowers in front of my house, on normal grass, it would then spread right? what if I wanted to limit that spread, while still keeping grass underneath (instead of a farm plot)
Ach, didn't think of that! :biggrin.gif:
I suppose you'd limit it like you would in reality though, cutting down the new sprouts as they pop up. Wouldn't be a lot of work as the sprouts wouldn't even drop anything, and there'd only be two or six every morning (depending on how many flowers you have and if you have both kinds). Plus you'd get the cool side-effect of coming back to a slightly overgrowing lawn after a few days of adventuring.
If you can think of a good way to keep things small, though, I'd love to hear it. Thanks for the feedback!
I suppose you'd limit it like you would in reality though, cutting down the new sprouts as they pop up. Wouldn't be a lot of work as the sprouts wouldn't even drop anything, and there'd only be two or six every morning (depending on how many flowers you have and if you have both kinds). Plus you'd get the cool side-effect of coming back to a slightly overgrowing lawn after a few days of adventuring.
If you can think of a good way to keep things small, though, I'd love to hear it. Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah, that makes sense. The idea of an overgrown lawn appeals to me too. On another note, it would make sense to grow the mushrooms in a dimly lit environment wouldn't it? Not so dark mobs could spawn, but it wouldn't be bright as a fully lit room. (I don't know much about mushroom farming so I could be way off here)
Yeah, that makes sense. The idea of an overgrown lawn appeals to me too. On another note, it would make sense to grow the mushrooms in a dimly lit environment wouldn't it? Not so dark mobs could spawn, but it wouldn't be bright as a fully lit room. (I don't know much about mushroom farming so I could be way off here)
Nah, you're right. I meant to say somewhere in there that the mushroom plots should be fairly dim, even if it means growing them wall to wall in rooms, or using minimal light sources in sealed off rooms to avoid giving monsters any place to spawn. I'll update the OP. Thanks again!
There are a couple of mods out there that have solved the problem of non-renewable flowers/mushrooms with farm plots. I think that letting players grow their own flowers and mushrooms, both naturally and in farm plots, would be an excellent complement to the natural spawning system in part two. I don't know many of the specifics behind these mods, but here's how I would set it up.
Flowers and mushrooms can now be planted on farm plots. They won't spread to anything but a farm plot, and they won't be included in the chunk check for natural spread (explained below). To plant a flower, you need a seed, and to plant a mushroom, you need spawn (mycologist terminology). Both of these items can be obtained by right-clicking on the plant in question with the hoe. This will destroy the plant and drop 1-2 seeds for flowers, or 1-2 spawn for mushrooms.
The mushrooms and flowers I'm suggesting will grow in stages, like wheat. Starting as little sprouts and growing into the mature flowers we see in game today over a variety of stages. Mushrooms will, of course, require a much darker plot to grow on (thanks for the reminder, trickytaco). Any flower or mushroom can be planted in irrigated farm plots, to spread quickly and unhindered to adjacent plots, or on the ground to grow naturally.
However in order to have natural growth, we have to limit their area and number somehow, right?
Part 2: Natural Spread With Chunk-Based Limitation
As most of you know, flowers and mushrooms don't renew themselves in the game. Notch has said that this is because it's difficult to make them do so without having them spread all over the world. I think I might have a solution to this.
The game works by generating (relatively) small chunks of land. Would there be a way to link the respawn of these plants to a per-chunk basis?
Let's say, to illustrate, that I generate a map and start exploring. The game seeds its flowers and mushrooms as usual, except this time there are a few rules it will follow afterward.
1. In the middle of the night cycle, every chunk containing any type of flower or mushroom is looked at. The game will find out how many of each type of plant is in the chunk, and if it is under twelve for any plant, the game will add two to three sprouts of that plant near the others.
2. Any sprouts added will only appear in a chunk that already has a number of their respective plants.
3. If a chunk doesn't have a type of plant in it when the check is made, no sprouts will be added of that type to that chunk.
4. If the amount of a certain plant in a chunk is over twelve when the check is made, no plants will be added of that type to that chunk.
What this all means:
Flowers and mushrooms will be able to grow in any chunk they're already present in, as long as there is less than twelve of their type. No plant will be able to overpopulate the land without player intervention because they're limited per chunk. No sprout can be spawned in a plantless chunk until the player manually places a plant there.
This solves a number of problems, assuming its possible. Flowers and mushrooms will now replenish their population bit by bit overnight until they hit twelve in a chunk. They'll then stop spreading. This gives us spreading, renewable plants without overpopulating the land and caves with them.
This also lets players introduce flowers and mushrooms to new chunks by seeding an area with a few plants and waiting for them to spread and grow.
Questions?
"Why only twelve of each plant type per chunk?"
Chunks are relatively small, 16x16x128 if I'm correct (if I'm not please let me know). This means each chunk has a surface area of 256 blocks. If we have 24 individual mushrooms (12 red and 12 beige) growing in the caves or under trees, and 24 individual flowers (12 red and 12 yellow) on the surface, the top area should appear fairly lush, with mushrooms growing in small sections of the caves or under trees.
Since the world-gen spawns are likely to overlap chunks in a few places, that's even more flowers and mushrooms that will grow overtime. I think 12 of each type of plant per chunk is a decent balance between spreading naturally and taking over the world.
"What if I want more than twelve roses in a chunk? Will the others die when I place more?"
Nope, the check never takes away plants, it just adds a few sprouts per night if there are less than twelve and more than zero. Your roses won't spread in a chunk that is full of them, but you can place as many as you want.
"Can I replant flowers I've picked still? I don't want to have to grow a whole garden from scratch!"
Yes, you can replant picked flowers, they'll be placed at full maturity and they'll spread sprouts around them to other land (assuming they're the first of their kind in the chunk) and farm plots. The seed/spawn drops and the growing stages are only there to deepen the farming mechanic and make the world seem less abrupt. Instead of waking up to find your yard full of flowers, you might wake up to find that a few sprouts have popped up, and they'll grow into flowers in a few days if left to themselves.
"What's the point of being able to grow them on farm plots if they spread on grass?"
In an irrigated farm plot, flowers and mushrooms will grow much more quickly, the amount that you can have in a chunk is only limited by how many farm plots you have. This lets players have the mushroom and flower farms that they've always wanted, and it lets them make these as large as they want without affecting the natural spawning system.
One last note, remember that natural plants won't spread to farm plots, and farm plot plants won't spread to anything but other nearby plots. This allows the player to maintain control of the plants should they require it.
That's all I've got. I hope it's clear enough. I know it's a bit of a read but I wanted to make sure the idea was communicated in full. What do you guys think?
Ach, didn't think of that! :biggrin.gif:
I suppose you'd limit it like you would in reality though, cutting down the new sprouts as they pop up. Wouldn't be a lot of work as the sprouts wouldn't even drop anything, and there'd only be two or six every morning (depending on how many flowers you have and if you have both kinds). Plus you'd get the cool side-effect of coming back to a slightly overgrowing lawn after a few days of adventuring.
If you can think of a good way to keep things small, though, I'd love to hear it. Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah, that makes sense. The idea of an overgrown lawn appeals to me too. On another note, it would make sense to grow the mushrooms in a dimly lit environment wouldn't it? Not so dark mobs could spawn, but it wouldn't be bright as a fully lit room. (I don't know much about mushroom farming so I could be way off here)
Nah, you're right. I meant to say somewhere in there that the mushroom plots should be fairly dim, even if it means growing them wall to wall in rooms, or using minimal light sources in sealed off rooms to avoid giving monsters any place to spawn. I'll update the OP. Thanks again!