Not exactly. As me and Chameleonred5 stated, there's a large majority of the community (Especially past PvP'ers it seems) are really biased. From what I can tell, most people so far hate the combat update because they heard "It was bad" from their friends, or "It removed spam-clicking" which "Automagically means it has no skill". A large majority of 1.9's hate comes from sources that haven't tried it out, or tried it out for 2-3 minutes and called it quits because of their bias from their friends putting them into the mentality that "The combat update sucks" therefor not giving them any chance to enjoy it. Only about 20% of the hate I've come over considering this update has accurate information, and isn't just things made up off of the top of their head, such as "Having to wait 10 seconds to swing a sword".
I can't get over how truthful and beautifully explained that is.
Things like a poll or statistics doesn't always show which idea is better, just what the larger majority thinks is better, which are two very different things. (And a large majority of the time, people don't even pick what they think is better, and, as Chameleonred5 stated, just hops on the bandwagon, choosing the most popular choice.)
Not to mention poll answers and whatnot can come from people who let their biased anger do the answering for them. If this thread exists for the sake of "Let's show Mojang how 'unpopular' the new combat is", then the OP's gonna have a bad time.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
A poll is probably the worst way to decide if something is good or not. As others have said they may be biased against a side without actually trying it seriously, or just vote for the most popular one. But beyond that, it is a bad way to decide because on a poll for if people like something, the only people who will bother to vote are those who dislike something. The people who enjoy it are usually too busy actually enjoying it to vote, or if they see the poll they don't bother because they are happy and don't care.
Most of the time the majority of people who want to voice an opinion are unhappy, even though they may very well be the minority by a huge margin. Happy people simply won't care as much.
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I was blessed with this update,everything was too easy before,I watched my 8 year old nephew take out a wither skeleton with a stone sword by spam clicking,now instead of clicking as fast as you can its all about dodging,waiting for the perfect time to strike,having a strategy to fighting,like how am I going to hit him first(run up to him,or dodge a bit then deal some damage,etc)or maybe what weapon to use,what for my offhand,etc and even now minecraft is still to easy for me,the last time I had a challenge was me vs 20 pigmen on a small nether island,while running out of food with magma blocks all over without my best weapon,and even then I did NOT die.So all in all this makes combat invigorating,have to be on your toes,etc.While yes the adjustment was a bit hard at first but after a while I was loving it.So no support p.s. If your having fps issues,I recommend optifine, it doubled my fps,that should help with combat
But not everyone wants to be challenged with the new combat. Lots of players just like it since it is a simple building game where you can build just about anything you want. If you like fighting mobs, then you could do that. I still think the gamerule would be the best idea. Who cares if most players turn it on? It's their own choice.
But not everyone wants to be challenged with the new combat. Lots of players just like it since it is a simple building game where you can build just about anything you want. If you like fighting mobs, then you could do that. I still think the gamerule would be the best idea. Who cares if most players turn it on? It's their own choice.
There's multiple gamemode, gamerules and options that players can already use at will to customize the game to their preferences. Only want to build? Creative mode. Don't like combat but want to gather resources? Peaceful mode.
If you refuse either option, then downgrade. You're missing out on a few blocks and structures, but that's it. If you really want those new items, your only option is to accept the combat changes. You're literally waiting 0.1 seconds longer than usual to strike. You're also given abilities to balance out things and not make them so difficult.
Skeletons too hard? Shields.
Combat in general "Too hard"? Rapid regeneration when at full hunger.
Groups of mobs? Sweep attack.
Things dying (Somehow) too slow? Axes. Kills almost everything in two hits if one of them is a critical hit.
And these are the only the things handed to you that were introduced in the 1.9 update. There are so many other items and options that make the game easier such as the keepInventory gamerule, lighting up the area around you, beds, etc.
There's multiple gamemode, gamerules and options that players can already use at will to customize the game to their preferences. Only want to build? Creative mode. Don't like combat but want to gather resources? Peaceful mode.
If you refuse either option, then downgrade. You're missing out on a few blocks and structures, but that's it. If you really want those new items, your only option is to accept the combat changes. You're literally waiting 0.1 seconds longer than usual to strike. You're also given abilities to balance out things and not make them so difficult.
Skeletons too hard? Shields.
Combat in general "Too hard"? Rapid regeneration when at full hunger.
Groups of mobs? Sweep attack.
Things dying (Somehow) too slow? Axes. Kills almost everything in two hits if one of them is a critical hit.
And these are the only the things handed to you that were introduced in the 1.9 update. There are so many other items and options that make the game easier such as the keepInventory gamerule, lighting up the area around you, beds, etc.
Before the new combat system, survival mode was PERFECT for lots of players. They didn't want anything changed and they liked being able to play the way they did for 7 years. That is why lots of players are unhappy about it. None of this changes the fact that combat is now over-complicated and tedious. In 1.8 and before it was simple and fun just how lots of players liked it. Giving a gamerule as an option is still the best idea in my opinion because it would make everyone happy with how they have to play it. Players who liked the simple combat could just turn it off, and players who like challenging combat could turn it on. It would not be the end of the world if a simple gamerule was implemented. :/
Before the new combat system, survival mode was PERFECT for lots of players. They didn't want anything changed and they liked being able to play the way they did for 7 years. That is why lots of players are unhappy about it. None of this changes the fact that combat is now over-complicated and tedious. In 1.8 and before it was simple and fun just how lots of players liked it. Giving a gamerule as an option is still the best idea in my opinion because it would make everyone happy with how they have to play it. Players who liked the simple combat could just turn it off, and players who like challenging combat could turn it on. It would not be the end of the world if a simple gamerule was implemented. :/
Over complicated and tedious?!
It's a recharge meter for crying out loud! It's a bar, just like your experience bar, it's a timer, just like the potion's duration timer. What's so complicated about that? You have to wait slightly over 1/2 a second for full damage, or choose to strike early for slightly less damage. That's literally all there is to it.
It's not very tedious when you take into account everything added in combat wise and not just the meter. Want to know what I absolutely hated in 1.8-? Sitting in a hole waiting for like a minute just to regenerate health, or for the cursed poison to run out, now that was tedious. But with 1.9, I don't have to do that anymore! Just eat a steak and wait two seconds and boom! Back into action! I hated groups of mobs because they took forever to kill off. Now look at me! Even with a delay, I'm killing groups faster than ever! That 1/2 heart of damage adds up a lot, making me only have to directly hit about 1/3rd of the mobs with the rest of them dying purely from the sweep attack.
Combat before was broken. That's the issue with adding a gamerule (Well, one). The only threat before were Skeletons, and even they were a joke. (Creepers posed some threat if they managed to sneak up behind you, but that's a one-time punch, and even then almost never killed you). That's one reason why we shouldn't have a gamerule or such to backport combat. It was just flat out broken.
You also have to consider balance. No cooldown and 9 damage stone swords and infinity sweep attacks? No thank you. Sure, you can "Balance" it out by removing those features, but as Chameleonred5 so generously displayed in the video he gave out, that arises issues. The developers aren't going to slow down development just because waiting 0.1 seconds longer is "Too complex". Even if such a thing wasn't an issue, flat out removing core parts of gameplay for balance is bad. Sweep attacks and powerful, slow axes are now core parts of combat, not some measly minor thing that fits into options such as sounds and graphic settings.
Lastly, I can't recall anyone saying survival mode was perfect. If anything, they were saying it was too bland, boring and easy. That's what I remember, at least. (And if I recall correctly, a lot of PvPers against 1.9 stated quite the opposite and that the vast majority of PvE players actually enjoyed the 1.9 update as it made PvE much more fun for them).
Combat in 1.9 isn't hard, it isn't complex. You've locked yourself into the mentality of thinking that.
Before the new combat system, survival mode was PERFECT for lots of players. They didn't want anything changed and they liked being able to play the way they did for 7 years. That is why lots of players are unhappy about it. None of this changes the fact that combat is now over-complicated and tedious. In 1.8 and before it was simple and fun just how lots of players liked it. Giving a gamerule as an option is still the best idea in my opinion because it would make everyone happy with how they have to play it. Players who liked the simple combat could just turn it off, and players who like challenging combat could turn it on. It would not be the end of the world if a simple gamerule was implemented. :/
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Over-complicated. You're waiting less than a second to strike. How is that over-complicated? And tedious? Slow and boring? Again, less than 1 second. How is that tedious?
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Over complicated and tedious?!
It's a recharge meter for crying out loud! It's a bar, just like your experience bar, it's a timer, just like the potion's duration timer. What's so complicated about that? You have to wait slightly over 1/2 a second for full damage, or choose to strike early for slightly less damage. That's literally all there is to it.
It's not very tedious when you take into account everything added in combat wise and not just the meter. Want to know what I absolutely hated in 1.8-? Sitting in a hole waiting for like a minute just to regenerate health, or for the cursed poison to run out, now that was tedious. But with 1.9, I don't have to do that anymore! Just eat a steak and wait two seconds and boom! Back into action! I hated groups of mobs because they took forever to kill off. Now look at me! Even with a delay, I'm killing groups faster than ever! That 1/2 heart of damage adds up a lot, making me only have to directly hit about 1/3rd of the mobs with the rest of them dying purely from the sweep attack.
Combat before was broken. That's the issue with adding a gamerule (Well, one). The only threat before were Skeletons, and even they were a joke. (Creepers posed some threat if they managed to sneak up behind you, but that's a one-time punch, and even then almost never killed you). That's one reason why we shouldn't have a gamerule or such to backport combat. It was just flat out broken.
You also have to consider balance. No cooldown and 9 damage stone swords and infinity sweep attacks? No thank you. Sure, you can "Balance" it out by removing those features, but as Chameleonred5 so generously displayed in the video he gave out, that arises issues. The developers aren't going to slow down development just because waiting 0.1 seconds longer is "Too complex". Even if such a thing wasn't an issue, flat out removing core parts of gameplay for balance is bad. Sweep attacks and powerful, slow axes are now core parts of combat, not some measly minor thing that fits into options such as sounds and graphic settings.
Lastly, I can't recall anyone saying survival mode was perfect. If anything, they were saying it was too bland, boring and easy. That's what I remember, at least. (And if I recall correctly, a lot of PvPers against 1.9 stated quite the opposite and that the vast majority of PvE players actually enjoyed the 1.9 update as it made PvE much more fun for them).
Combat in 1.9 isn't hard, it isn't complex. You've locked yourself into the mentality of thinking that.
If the combat was "broken" and "unbalanced" before 1.9, do you really think Mojang would have just let it go instead of fixing it long ago? As for no one saying survival mode was perfect, there was no need for them to. They didn't find anything wrong with it so they just kept quiet. And while the new changes are (sometimes) good for PvP, they just ruin the fun for lots of players in PvE. Unless you were clicking once a second with a stick, a group of mobs did not take forever to kill in 1.8. If anything, it is faster than in 1.9. Were you by any chance using a sharpness X sword cheated in with commands?
Everyone has their own opinions about the new combat. Some hate it and some love it. Once again, there would be nothing wrong with a simple gamerule that reverted the attack time to what it was in 1.8 and reverted everything to it's original damage.
...
Over-complicated. You're waiting less than a second to strike. How is that over-complicated? And tedious? Slow and boring? Again, less than 1 second. How is that tedious?
Because it takes longer to kill a mob and just move on. I prefer getting rid of them very fast and then just continuing, but now you have to take your time with each one. What's interesting is that everyone was saying that the combat is "so challenging and fun" and now they are saying that it is simple again...
If the combat was "broken" and "unbalanced" before 1.9, do you really think Mojang would have just let it go instead of fixing it long ago? As for no one saying survival mode was perfect, there was no need for them to. They didn't find anything wrong with it so they just kept quiet. And while the new changes are (sometimes) good for PvP, they just ruin the fun for lots of players in PvE. Unless you were clicking once a second with a stick, a group of mobs did not take forever to kill in 1.8. If anything, it is faster than in 1.9. Were you by any chance using a sharpness X sword cheated in with commands?
Everyone has their own opinions about the new combat. Some hate it and some love it. Once again, there would be nothing wrong with a simple gamerule that reverted the attack time to what it was in 1.8 and reverted everything to it's original damage.
Because it takes longer to kill a mob and just move on. I prefer getting rid of them very fast and then just continuing, but now you have to take your time with each one. What's interesting is that everyone was saying that the combat is "so challenging and fun" and now they are saying that it is simple again...
If you prefer getting rid of mobs fast you'd love the 1.9 combat update as the sweep attack lets you take out multiple mobs in the time you could take out one in 1.8..
This thread appears to be becoming another 1.9 combat complaint/discussion thread. People, please limit the discussion to the ideas presented in the top post or critiques of those ideas. Merely discussing the rationale of Mojang implementing the new combat system or criticizing people for following or not wanting to follow the new combat system will be considered off-topic.
If the combat was "broken" and "unbalanced" before 1.9, do you really think Mojang would have just let it go instead of fixing it long ago?
Yes. See also; Boat changes, Huge Coding rewrites introduced in 1.8 (Even if it can be argued they're worse, that's not the point I'm making).
Mojang has left a lot of stuff broken and hasn't been fixing it until just recently. I am perfectly 100% sure Mojang would do that.
As for no one saying survival mode was perfect, there was no need for them to. They didn't find anything wrong with it so they just kept quiet. And while the new changes are (sometimes) good for PvP, they just ruin the fun for lots of players in PvE.
I see what you're trying to do here. You kinda flew past my whole "(And if I recall correctly, a lot of PvPers against 1.9 stated quite the opposite and that the vast majority of PvE players actually enjoyed the 1.9 update as it made PvE much more fun for them). "
My point also included that more people have reported the changes are better for PvE.
Unless you were clicking once a second with a stick, a group of mobs did not take forever to kill in 1.8. If anything, it is faster than in 1.9. Were you by any chance using a sharpness X sword cheated in with commands?
No.
Normal gear, normal weapons. "Forever" is exaggerated a bit. It does take considerably longer. (Also take into account the fact that you're saying you can obliterate huge groups in seconds with minimal effort in survival mode is just showing the unbalance there was in pre-1.9 combat)
Everyone has their own opinions about the new combat. Some hate it and some love it. Once again, there would be nothing wrong with a simple gamerule that reverted the attack time to what it was in 1.8 and reverted everything to it's original damage.
Me and many other people have given reasons why this is bad. I'll get back to this point at the end of my post for the sake of being on topic.
Because it takes longer to kill a mob and just move on. I prefer getting rid of them very fast and then just continuing, but now you have to take your time with each one.
You can still get rid of them insanely fast. If waiting 0.1 seconds longer is absolutely too slow of a wait, you have options! Take an axe and hit mobs with it. You can kill almost every mob in two hits as long as one of them is a critical strike. Time your attacks with the invincibility frames instead of paying attention to the attack meter to emulate "Fast-Paced" fighting what was pre-1.9. You deal slightly less damage, but you still kill things just as fast. Or use a haste beacon to lower the attack speed of all weapons.
What's interesting is that everyone was saying that the combat is "so challenging and fun" and now they are saying that it is simple again..
It's both Challenging and simple. There is nothing complex about waiting 0.6 seconds, and yet it adds a slight challenge to the game.
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As to be on topic from now on, I'll re-address just the issues specifically to the game rule.
There are two major reasons why this is a bad idea.
The first, is once again what chameleonred5 generously showed us. The developers now essentially have to support two versions of the game. When adding any new content they have to play test it for both versions of combat. Is it balanced with spam clicking? Without it? This not only increases development time (Slower updates!), but also strains the developers because it puts a lot more workload on them when creating any new content. Except for maybe, like... New blocks.
The next, as I meantioned is combat is broken pre-1.9. It's a sappy excuse for combat. I don't recall dying ever in the update. All mobs to me were literally just a wall that I either smacked out of my way or just flat out ignored. Survival without armor was barely a challenge since I could handle groups of any size without getting hit at all. And I was practically overkill with armor. Once you obtained Iron armor, even on hard difficulty, nothing ever dealt more than, what... Half a heart of damage? Well except Witches and Cave spiders due to poison. (Which aren't even a threat in 1.9, so I'll accept I feel the update messed up there, but that's not due to any meter and due to regeneration mechanics).
The reason why pre-1.9 is so broken is simply because you're practically invincible. Just spam click a zombie and it's impossible for it to reach you. Skeletons weren't really able to be defended against, but it really didn't matter because they barely dealt any damage, and your super godly spam clicking always dealt enough damage quick enough to tank like 5 skeletons in a row before you were close to death, and that's with, what? No armor? The simple fact that you could deal endless amounts of damage (Save for mob invulnerability frames) to the point where you can face tank every single mob in the game absolutely insane and flat out broken. This especially gets worse when you get basic, common gear such as iron armor and suddenly are able to handle an entire apocalypse trying to murder you at the same time.
If that's not enough proof of combat being broken, go look at some PvPers who previously defended old combat. Literally every time they mentioned any "Skills" (I say "Skills" because they weren't skills at all) it was literally just game exploits or glitches. How is that not broken right there??
Those, I feel are the two major reasons why a gamerule is bad. It's slows down development time, putting strain on developers to support an old combat system that's just pretty much broken.
There are more reasons.
Combat is a core part of the game, both pre-1.9 and post-1.9. It's not some side thing like volume, graphics or difficulty. It's just simply not meant to be an option or gamerule.
Having something like this as an option would be confusing for the community, too. One server you have the amazing powerful and slow axes, or super neato sweep attacks, the next server... Wait what? Why can't I do this anymore? This would confuse the community greatly. Many people won't be aware of the new "Optional combat" and even if they did, it'd be confusing having 1/2 of the servers with it off and 1/2 of the servers with it on.
In short, I don't support this because you're wanting to be catered so you can use broken mechanics. The new isn't complex, yet we still find it fun. Things don't have to be simple to be fun. I'm sorry you're not enjoying this update, but you still have options within the game to make life easier for you, as I've mentioned many times before in both this post and in my past posts.
Edit: Okay, fine I admit it. The forums are more broken than pre-1.9 combat. Are you happy now? (This is a joke, don't take it seriously, okay?)
But not everyone wants to be challenged with the new combat. Lots of players just like it since it is a simple building game where you can build just about anything you want. If you like fighting mobs, then you could do that. I still think the gamerule would be the best idea. Who cares if most players turn it on? It's their own choice.
Just because something is a "do what you want" game doesn't mean there shouldn't be any balance, at least if Survival is involved. "Not everyone wants to be challenged" is just an awful, awful argument. I'm sorry to be so direct on that one, but it's true. I don't want to be challenged with hunger, can we make that a gamerule? I don't want to deal with skeletons or creepers, can we make them optional? That's not how that works.
People make it sound like combat is dysfunctional now and it's not. Spam clicking is still there, it's just not as effective, and it really shouldn't be.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Here we go again... I did make a thread on why the gamerule is bad, and here it is... I hope there isn't too much fuss. And, for what my 2c is worth, 1 is terrible, 2 is awful, and three... well... look at my thread.
NO SUPPORT
That thread was only for PvP. I think the changes are SOMETIMES ok for PvP, but they ruin PvE for me. (and several other players based on the info I have collected on servers)
Just because something is a "do what you want" game doesn't mean there shouldn't be any balance, at least if Survival is involved. "Not everyone wants to be challenged" is just an awful, awful argument. I'm sorry to be so direct on that one, but it's true. I don't want to be challenged with hunger, can we make that a gamerule? I don't want to deal with skeletons or creepers, can we make them optional? That's not how that works.
People make it sound like combat is dysfunctional now and it's not. Spam clicking is still there, it's just not as effective, and it really shouldn't be.
I like being challenged in building, not hard combat. That's what Minecraft was always about. A hunger bar and skeletons and creepers are different. They don't make you waste lots of time dealing with mobs like the weapon cooldown was. Think of it this way. Minecraft always had the cooldown for 7 years and most players liked it. However, suddenly Mojang decides to remove the cooldown and allow spamclicking. Most players would hate it, and want an option to go back because of how "bad" and "unbalanced" the new combat is to it but they never add one. The reason is that they are told that "everyone needs to learn to adapt to change" and "it would divide the community". That is pretty much what has happened with the players who hate having to waste more time with combat instead of building like they did for 7 years.
Also, when I can I will post a GIF of how long it takes to kill 6 zombies with a stone sword in both 1.8 and 1.9. There is quite a difference.
That thread was only for PvP. I think the changes are SOMETIMES ok for PvP, but they ruin PvE for me. (and several other players based on the info I have collected on servers)
I like being challenged in building, not hard combat. That's what Minecraft was always about. A hunger bar and skeletons and creepers are different. They don't make you waste lots of time dealing with mobs like the weapon cooldown was. Think of it this way. Minecraft always had the cooldown for 7 years and most players liked it. However, suddenly Mojang decides to remove the cooldown and allow spamclicking. Most players would hate it, and want an option to go back because of how "bad" and "unbalanced" the new combat is to it but they never add one. The reason is that they are told that "everyone needs to learn to adapt to change" and "it would divide the community". That is pretty much what has happened with the players who hate having to waste more time with combat instead of building like they did for 7 years.
Also, when I can I will post a GIF of how long it takes to kill 6 zombies with a stone sword in both 1.8 and 1.9. There is quite a difference.
Making a change this big this late in the game (it had the old combat system for 7 years for goodness sake!) should have at least given us an option to turn it off it we don't like it.
No, it's a change to the game. There are workarounds to avoid it. People said they should have a toggle for hunger for a while after 1.8 beta as well. They're over it.
They should have released it in a way that described it well. There are many people who still don't know it exists and use the old spammy combat.
You can see in these videos that it does NOT take any longer to kill 3 zombies in 1.8 than it does in 1.10. It is actually faster.
Next I will post some videos containing 6 zombies and the results from them are the same.
No wonder you're doing so badly! With the amount you get hit it's not surprising, and you're missing, not taking advantage of the sweep attack, and outright not maneuvering. You're using 1.8 tactics in 1.9.
This is not fair proof of anything, and I don't think your 6-zombie videos will be much better.
with that video it just looks like your not used to the 1.9 combat,I could have taken those zombies in about 7 and a half seconds
Well in that situation you couldn't. Stone Swords do 5 per hit or 8 DPS. 3 zombies have 60 HP total plus 2 armor per Zombie. So each one would need just over 4 normal hits to kill them if my math and the wiki is right (2 armor points blocking 5 damage equates to 4.92 damage actually done, 20/4.92 = 4 with a remainder so 5). So 15 hits total at 1 hit per 0.6 seconds means 9 seconds. Notice you can't jump in his scenario because of the roof.
If you could crit them, you would do 5*1.5 damage, so 7.5 damage which equates to about 7 after the armor. That means 3 hits apiece. 9 hits at 1 hit per 0.6 seconds equals 5.4 seconds.
Then we have scenario 3 which is sweep attacks. Sweep attacks do normal damage plus 1 damage to the enemies hit by the sweep. If you prioritize one first and hit the others with the sweep you would kill the first in 5 hits and do 5 damage to each of the others leaving them at 15. Then targeting the next would kill it in 4 hits and do 4 more damage to the last Zombie, bringing it to 11 HP. 3 hits to finish off the last one. That means 12 hits total, or 7.2 seconds.
In 1.8 the best you could reasonably hit multiple mobs would be about 3 mobs per second (assuming you are about an average player). Assuming same damage and armor resistance you could kill them in about 5 seconds. Is 1.8 faster? Sure. Will it always be faster assuming you attack the same mobs with attacks only in 1.8, in the exact same scenarios? Yep.
Will you ever, ever be in the kind of scenario as in the videos? Probably not. I would be willing to say it is nearly a guarantee. The speed in which you kill mobs is limited by about a dozen things, including terrain, number of mobs, if you actually want to engage them or avoid them, type of mobs, time of day (which determines behavior of Skeletons and if Zombies can burn you on the surface), dimension, and equipment.
In pure clinical environments that in no way mimic the real game, 1.8 is faster. But in actual gameplay the difference is minimal and is entirely dependent on scenario and more importantly, player skill. And by the looks of the videos, the main problem you suffer from is that you are treating it like 1.8 combat, which is exactly why you don't like it in my opinion.
And none of this changes the fact that this would fracture the player base, confuse players who go to multiple servers, increase time needed to test and fix bugs, slow down new content, and be detrimental to the game as a whole to make a small subset of people happy.
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I can't get over how truthful and beautifully explained that is.
Not to mention poll answers and whatnot can come from people who let their biased anger do the answering for them. If this thread exists for the sake of "Let's show Mojang how 'unpopular' the new combat is", then the OP's gonna have a bad time.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
This is a great idea! I especially want a gamerule called "doAttackCooldown". This would makexpect map and server experiences much more enjoyable.
Minecraft Map Maker
MC Username: tyler134789
A poll is probably the worst way to decide if something is good or not. As others have said they may be biased against a side without actually trying it seriously, or just vote for the most popular one. But beyond that, it is a bad way to decide because on a poll for if people like something, the only people who will bother to vote are those who dislike something. The people who enjoy it are usually too busy actually enjoying it to vote, or if they see the poll they don't bother because they are happy and don't care.
Most of the time the majority of people who want to voice an opinion are unhappy, even though they may very well be the minority by a huge margin. Happy people simply won't care as much.
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But not everyone wants to be challenged with the new combat. Lots of players just like it since it is a simple building game where you can build just about anything you want. If you like fighting mobs, then you could do that. I still think the gamerule would be the best idea. Who cares if most players turn it on? It's their own choice.
There's multiple gamemode, gamerules and options that players can already use at will to customize the game to their preferences. Only want to build? Creative mode. Don't like combat but want to gather resources? Peaceful mode.
If you refuse either option, then downgrade. You're missing out on a few blocks and structures, but that's it. If you really want those new items, your only option is to accept the combat changes. You're literally waiting 0.1 seconds longer than usual to strike. You're also given abilities to balance out things and not make them so difficult.
Skeletons too hard? Shields.
Combat in general "Too hard"? Rapid regeneration when at full hunger.
Groups of mobs? Sweep attack.
Things dying (Somehow) too slow? Axes. Kills almost everything in two hits if one of them is a critical hit.
And these are the only the things handed to you that were introduced in the 1.9 update. There are so many other items and options that make the game easier such as the keepInventory gamerule, lighting up the area around you, beds, etc.
Before the new combat system, survival mode was PERFECT for lots of players. They didn't want anything changed and they liked being able to play the way they did for 7 years. That is why lots of players are unhappy about it. None of this changes the fact that combat is now over-complicated and tedious. In 1.8 and before it was simple and fun just how lots of players liked it. Giving a gamerule as an option is still the best idea in my opinion because it would make everyone happy with how they have to play it. Players who liked the simple combat could just turn it off, and players who like challenging combat could turn it on. It would not be the end of the world if a simple gamerule was implemented. :/
Over complicated and tedious?!
It's a recharge meter for crying out loud! It's a bar, just like your experience bar, it's a timer, just like the potion's duration timer. What's so complicated about that? You have to wait slightly over 1/2 a second for full damage, or choose to strike early for slightly less damage. That's literally all there is to it.
It's not very tedious when you take into account everything added in combat wise and not just the meter. Want to know what I absolutely hated in 1.8-? Sitting in a hole waiting for like a minute just to regenerate health, or for the cursed poison to run out, now that was tedious. But with 1.9, I don't have to do that anymore! Just eat a steak and wait two seconds and boom! Back into action! I hated groups of mobs because they took forever to kill off. Now look at me! Even with a delay, I'm killing groups faster than ever! That 1/2 heart of damage adds up a lot, making me only have to directly hit about 1/3rd of the mobs with the rest of them dying purely from the sweep attack.
Combat before was broken. That's the issue with adding a gamerule (Well, one). The only threat before were Skeletons, and even they were a joke. (Creepers posed some threat if they managed to sneak up behind you, but that's a one-time punch, and even then almost never killed you). That's one reason why we shouldn't have a gamerule or such to backport combat. It was just flat out broken.
You also have to consider balance. No cooldown and 9 damage stone swords and infinity sweep attacks? No thank you. Sure, you can "Balance" it out by removing those features, but as Chameleonred5 so generously displayed in the video he gave out, that arises issues. The developers aren't going to slow down development just because waiting 0.1 seconds longer is "Too complex". Even if such a thing wasn't an issue, flat out removing core parts of gameplay for balance is bad. Sweep attacks and powerful, slow axes are now core parts of combat, not some measly minor thing that fits into options such as sounds and graphic settings.
Lastly, I can't recall anyone saying survival mode was perfect. If anything, they were saying it was too bland, boring and easy. That's what I remember, at least. (And if I recall correctly, a lot of PvPers against 1.9 stated quite the opposite and that the vast majority of PvE players actually enjoyed the 1.9 update as it made PvE much more fun for them).
Combat in 1.9 isn't hard, it isn't complex. You've locked yourself into the mentality of thinking that.
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Over-complicated. You're waiting less than a second to strike. How is that over-complicated? And tedious? Slow and boring? Again, less than 1 second. How is that tedious?
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If the combat was "broken" and "unbalanced" before 1.9, do you really think Mojang would have just let it go instead of fixing it long ago? As for no one saying survival mode was perfect, there was no need for them to. They didn't find anything wrong with it so they just kept quiet. And while the new changes are (sometimes) good for PvP, they just ruin the fun for lots of players in PvE. Unless you were clicking once a second with a stick, a group of mobs did not take forever to kill in 1.8. If anything, it is faster than in 1.9. Were you by any chance using a sharpness X sword cheated in with commands?
Everyone has their own opinions about the new combat. Some hate it and some love it. Once again, there would be nothing wrong with a simple gamerule that reverted the attack time to what it was in 1.8 and reverted everything to it's original damage.
Because it takes longer to kill a mob and just move on. I prefer getting rid of them very fast and then just continuing, but now you have to take your time with each one. What's interesting is that everyone was saying that the combat is "so challenging and fun" and now they are saying that it is simple again...
If you prefer getting rid of mobs fast you'd love the 1.9 combat update as the sweep attack lets you take out multiple mobs in the time you could take out one in 1.8..
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This thread appears to be becoming another 1.9 combat complaint/discussion thread. People, please limit the discussion to the ideas presented in the top post or critiques of those ideas. Merely discussing the rationale of Mojang implementing the new combat system or criticizing people for following or not wanting to follow the new combat system will be considered off-topic.
- sunperp
Yes. See also; Boat changes, Huge Coding rewrites introduced in 1.8 (Even if it can be argued they're worse, that's not the point I'm making).
Mojang has left a lot of stuff broken and hasn't been fixing it until just recently. I am perfectly 100% sure Mojang would do that.
I see what you're trying to do here. You kinda flew past my whole "(And if I recall correctly, a lot of PvPers against 1.9 stated quite the opposite and that the vast majority of PvE players actually enjoyed the 1.9 update as it made PvE much more fun for them). "
My point also included that more people have reported the changes are better for PvE.
No.
Normal gear, normal weapons. "Forever" is exaggerated a bit. It does take considerably longer. (Also take into account the fact that you're saying you can obliterate huge groups in seconds with minimal effort in survival mode is just showing the unbalance there was in pre-1.9 combat)
Me and many other people have given reasons why this is bad. I'll get back to this point at the end of my post for the sake of being on topic.
You can still get rid of them insanely fast. If waiting 0.1 seconds longer is absolutely too slow of a wait, you have options! Take an axe and hit mobs with it. You can kill almost every mob in two hits as long as one of them is a critical strike. Time your attacks with the invincibility frames instead of paying attention to the attack meter to emulate "Fast-Paced" fighting what was pre-1.9. You deal slightly less damage, but you still kill things just as fast. Or use a haste beacon to lower the attack speed of all weapons.
It's both Challenging and simple. There is nothing complex about waiting 0.6 seconds, and yet it adds a slight challenge to the game.
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As to be on topic from now on, I'll re-address just the issues specifically to the game rule.
There are two major reasons why this is a bad idea.
The first, is once again what chameleonred5 generously showed us. The developers now essentially have to support two versions of the game. When adding any new content they have to play test it for both versions of combat. Is it balanced with spam clicking? Without it? This not only increases development time (Slower updates!), but also strains the developers because it puts a lot more workload on them when creating any new content. Except for maybe, like... New blocks.
The next, as I meantioned is combat is broken pre-1.9. It's a sappy excuse for combat. I don't recall dying ever in the update. All mobs to me were literally just a wall that I either smacked out of my way or just flat out ignored. Survival without armor was barely a challenge since I could handle groups of any size without getting hit at all. And I was practically overkill with armor. Once you obtained Iron armor, even on hard difficulty, nothing ever dealt more than, what... Half a heart of damage? Well except Witches and Cave spiders due to poison. (Which aren't even a threat in 1.9, so I'll accept I feel the update messed up there, but that's not due to any meter and due to regeneration mechanics).
The reason why pre-1.9 is so broken is simply because you're practically invincible. Just spam click a zombie and it's impossible for it to reach you. Skeletons weren't really able to be defended against, but it really didn't matter because they barely dealt any damage, and your super godly spam clicking always dealt enough damage quick enough to tank like 5 skeletons in a row before you were close to death, and that's with, what? No armor? The simple fact that you could deal endless amounts of damage (Save for mob invulnerability frames) to the point where you can face tank every single mob in the game absolutely insane and flat out broken. This especially gets worse when you get basic, common gear such as iron armor and suddenly are able to handle an entire apocalypse trying to murder you at the same time.
If that's not enough proof of combat being broken, go look at some PvPers who previously defended old combat. Literally every time they mentioned any "Skills" (I say "Skills" because they weren't skills at all) it was literally just game exploits or glitches. How is that not broken right there??
Those, I feel are the two major reasons why a gamerule is bad. It's slows down development time, putting strain on developers to support an old combat system that's just pretty much broken.
There are more reasons.
Combat is a core part of the game, both pre-1.9 and post-1.9. It's not some side thing like volume, graphics or difficulty. It's just simply not meant to be an option or gamerule.
Having something like this as an option would be confusing for the community, too. One server you have the amazing powerful and slow axes, or super neato sweep attacks, the next server... Wait what? Why can't I do this anymore? This would confuse the community greatly. Many people won't be aware of the new "Optional combat" and even if they did, it'd be confusing having 1/2 of the servers with it off and 1/2 of the servers with it on.
In short, I don't support this because you're wanting to be catered so you can use broken mechanics. The new isn't complex, yet we still find it fun. Things don't have to be simple to be fun. I'm sorry you're not enjoying this update, but you still have options within the game to make life easier for you, as I've mentioned many times before in both this post and in my past posts.
Edit: Okay, fine I admit it. The forums are more broken than pre-1.9 combat. Are you happy now? (This is a joke, don't take it seriously, okay?)
Just because something is a "do what you want" game doesn't mean there shouldn't be any balance, at least if Survival is involved. "Not everyone wants to be challenged" is just an awful, awful argument. I'm sorry to be so direct on that one, but it's true. I don't want to be challenged with hunger, can we make that a gamerule? I don't want to deal with skeletons or creepers, can we make them optional? That's not how that works.
People make it sound like combat is dysfunctional now and it's not. Spam clicking is still there, it's just not as effective, and it really shouldn't be.
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That thread was only for PvP. I think the changes are SOMETIMES ok for PvP, but they ruin PvE for me. (and several other players based on the info I have collected on servers)
I like being challenged in building, not hard combat. That's what Minecraft was always about. A hunger bar and skeletons and creepers are different. They don't make you waste lots of time dealing with mobs like the weapon cooldown was. Think of it this way. Minecraft always had the cooldown for 7 years and most players liked it. However, suddenly Mojang decides to remove the cooldown and allow spamclicking. Most players would hate it, and want an option to go back because of how "bad" and "unbalanced" the new combat is to it but they never add one. The reason is that they are told that "everyone needs to learn to adapt to change" and "it would divide the community". That is pretty much what has happened with the players who hate having to waste more time with combat instead of building like they did for 7 years.
Also, when I can I will post a GIF of how long it takes to kill 6 zombies with a stone sword in both 1.8 and 1.9. There is quite a difference.
I await this gif.
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No, it's a change to the game. There are workarounds to avoid it. People said they should have a toggle for hunger for a while after 1.8 beta as well. They're over it.
They should have released it in a way that described it well. There are many people who still don't know it exists and use the old spammy combat.
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You can see in these videos that it does NOT take any longer to kill 3 zombies in 1.8 than it does in 1.10. It is actually faster.
Next I will post some videos containing 6 zombies and the results from them are the same.
No wonder you're doing so badly! With the amount you get hit it's not surprising, and you're missing, not taking advantage of the sweep attack, and outright not maneuvering. You're using 1.8 tactics in 1.9.
This is not fair proof of anything, and I don't think your 6-zombie videos will be much better.
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For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
with that video it just looks like your not used to the 1.9 combat,I could have taken those zombies in about 7 and a half seconds
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Well in that situation you couldn't. Stone Swords do 5 per hit or 8 DPS. 3 zombies have 60 HP total plus 2 armor per Zombie. So each one would need just over 4 normal hits to kill them if my math and the wiki is right (2 armor points blocking 5 damage equates to 4.92 damage actually done, 20/4.92 = 4 with a remainder so 5). So 15 hits total at 1 hit per 0.6 seconds means 9 seconds. Notice you can't jump in his scenario because of the roof.
If you could crit them, you would do 5*1.5 damage, so 7.5 damage which equates to about 7 after the armor. That means 3 hits apiece. 9 hits at 1 hit per 0.6 seconds equals 5.4 seconds.
Then we have scenario 3 which is sweep attacks. Sweep attacks do normal damage plus 1 damage to the enemies hit by the sweep. If you prioritize one first and hit the others with the sweep you would kill the first in 5 hits and do 5 damage to each of the others leaving them at 15. Then targeting the next would kill it in 4 hits and do 4 more damage to the last Zombie, bringing it to 11 HP. 3 hits to finish off the last one. That means 12 hits total, or 7.2 seconds.
In 1.8 the best you could reasonably hit multiple mobs would be about 3 mobs per second (assuming you are about an average player). Assuming same damage and armor resistance you could kill them in about 5 seconds. Is 1.8 faster? Sure. Will it always be faster assuming you attack the same mobs with attacks only in 1.8, in the exact same scenarios? Yep.
Will you ever, ever be in the kind of scenario as in the videos? Probably not. I would be willing to say it is nearly a guarantee. The speed in which you kill mobs is limited by about a dozen things, including terrain, number of mobs, if you actually want to engage them or avoid them, type of mobs, time of day (which determines behavior of Skeletons and if Zombies can burn you on the surface), dimension, and equipment.
In pure clinical environments that in no way mimic the real game, 1.8 is faster. But in actual gameplay the difference is minimal and is entirely dependent on scenario and more importantly, player skill. And by the looks of the videos, the main problem you suffer from is that you are treating it like 1.8 combat, which is exactly why you don't like it in my opinion.
And none of this changes the fact that this would fracture the player base, confuse players who go to multiple servers, increase time needed to test and fix bugs, slow down new content, and be detrimental to the game as a whole to make a small subset of people happy.
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