I guess I should start off by saying that the current trees really bug me. They start as a sapling, and randomly grow into a tree that you can use to build your house. While I don’t think they should take any longer to grow, I do think a couple more stages of trees, like most crops have, would be much better.
TREE STAGES:
Trees would have 4 stages, with an additional 5th stage that could happen occasionally, with the correct circumstances.
The First stage is a Sapling. These work just like usual; You can get them from leaf blocks, and plant them on dirt. They will eventually grow to the second stage.
The Second stage is still a sapling, but now it is a solid, albeit thin, block, sort of like a fence. It can be one block, a block and a half, or two blocks tall. (Though it is still all treated as one block, sorta like a bed.) Breaking this sapling will give you 2-6 sticks, and 0-1 saplings.
The Third stage uses normal sized wood blocks, but the tree is really short. So an oak tree would be two or three blocks of wood, surrounded by a small sphere of leaves.
The Fourth stage is a normal sized tree. It works just like a normal tree.
The special Fifth stage requires a few more things than a normal tree, so it won’t happen as often. It is a giant version of the tree, wider and taller, with branches and leaves, and a few wood log block roots at the bottom.
This fifth stage requires:
-a direct view of the sky.
-No other trees or blocks within 5 blocks to the side.
-to be planted above sea level
-There cannot be another Stage 5 tree within 100 blocks
-a long time to wait…
-cannot be grown with bonemeal
Every once in a while, in oak and birch forests, a tree will spawn with no leaves, vines growing on it, and mushrooms around and on it.
LIVING TREES
The second part of this is that there could be much better tree mechanics than there is now. Normally I don’t focus on stuff like this, but for trees I’ll make an exception.
Right now, trees grow, but then when you chop them down and place them somewhere else, they act just the same. Which, at least in my opinion, doesn’t make sense. Chopping down a tree kills it.
So my fix, and an addition to the tree mechanics is to create a few extra blocks.
Green Wood:
Chopping down a tree will still give you the same wood you have always gotten. But now, before you cut a tree down, it will consist of Green Wood. Breaking Green Wood will drop normal wood, so that part doesn’t change at all.
Leaves next to dead Wood will still degrade, but they won’t next to Green Wood.
It looks much the same as normal, dead wood, except it is a little more vibrant.
Green Wood is very fire resistant.
Roots:
When the tree grows into a full tree, it turns the block under it into a Root block.
Roots, when broken, drop 1-4 sticks, and have a small chance of dropping a potato or a carrot. The dirt blocks around the Root will have a small appearance change, and look as if they have roots growing through them. Breaking this Root Dirt will drop 1-2 sticks. Placing fresh dirt near a Root will slowly grow more roots in it.
To keep Green Wood alive, it has to be connected to both a Root block and a Leaf block, or a Green Wood block that is connected to them. The Green Wood can extend between Root and leaves indefinitely.
Removing all the Root next to Green Wood will instantly kill it, turning it to normal wood. Removing all the Leaves won’t kill it immediately, but it will die eventually. The good news is that, if there are some Leaves or Roots remaining, the tree can slowly grow back more. So breaking only a few leaves, the tree can grow back more.
Silk Touch and Shears still work for both Green Wood and Roots. But placing Green Wood anywhere except on Roots will instantly kill it, and if it doesn’t get leaves quick, it will still die.
If a tree loses all of its leaves, but not its roots, it will have a chance to grow vines. These Dead trees have a chance to spawn naturally.
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Support, this is very nice and I think this would make tree farming much more interesting, how ever 5 stage trees should be able to be made with any condition in creative, for adventure maps and that stuff.
So, say, bonemealing a Stage four while in creative would allow it to become a stage Five? That makes sense... I'll add it! I can't right at the moment though, because I am using the Minecraft Forum app and its super slow....
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You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
"Living trees" is way to complex - you basically have to make trees tile entities, which will cause extreme performance issues in forests and jungles (which already cause issues, they even removed big oak trees from forests in 1.7-1.8 because of lag, even on Mojang's high-end computers). Why tile entities and not just use block updates (like grass?) You'd need to store the structure of the tree so the game knows where leaves should grow back; this is also why "seasons" suggestions that suggest that trees drop/regrow leaves are also out of the question (if you doubt having to track so much data would cause lag, see this, and mineshafts are much less common than trees). Also, if trees replaced dirt with "root blocks" which do not drop dirt then you'd eventually run out of dirt (not really an issue in a normal world but would definitely be a problem in Skyblock or other custom worlds with limited dirt. It would also be annoying to have to replace it, sort of like if you had to retill farmland after harvesting crops, but more since the farmland is not consumed).
Also, trees do not "act the same" if you cut one down and rebuild it elsewhere - player-placed leaf blocks will never decay even if there are no logs nearby; I presume that you want this to be removed. You are also adding new blocks with little purpose other than "living" trees and little difference from "dead" wood blocks.
IMO, trees are fine as they currently are; they could add more variants of trees (not necessarily more types of wood, more variants of the same blocks) and make branches use all-side bark logs (especially acacia) but not this.
I'm not a really big fan. Not because it is a bad idea, because it isn't. This is a good idea I just like the simplistic way it works now. This adds a bunch of complexity to a mechanic that exists solely to give the player a renewable source for the most basic, common item in the game.
I'm not big on micromanagement for the sake of micromanagement or realism.
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So, say, bonemealing a Stage four while in creative would allow it to become a stage Five? That makes sense... I'll add it! I can't right at the moment though, because I am using the Minecraft Forum app and its super slow....
Please do, who wouldn't want these trees in an adventure map?
I'm not a really big fan. Not because it is a bad idea, because it isn't. This is a good idea I just like the simplistic way it works now. This adds a bunch of complexity to a mechanic that exists solely to give the player a renewable source for the most basic, common item in the game.
I'm not big on micromanagement for the sake of micromanagement or realism.
It literally takes the same amount of time to grow as a normal tree, just more stages, there is no extra micromanagement in here.
I did not know player placed leaved did not decay Good to know.
The Living trees seems to be a bad idea, simply because it is too complex... But what about the different stages? Without the roots or the Green Wood, are the different stages a good idea?
Same question for you, Badprenup. (If ypu don't see this by tomorrow, I'll edit it to tag you or something... The app is too clow to risk quoting)
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It literally takes the same amount of time to grow as a normal tree, just more stages, there is no extra micromanagement in here.
The micromanagement was referring more to the 5th tree stage and the assumption that leaves and green wood would mean that player placed leaves would decay over time, similar to what TheMasterCaver thought. Both of those would be rather annoying. And while I know I wouldn't HAVE to make level 5 trees but enforcing a sky check AND a height check AND a normal tree distance check AND a different tree distance check for other level 5 trees AND an extremely long timer for it AND make it not skippable with Bonemeal is just silly for a piddly amount of extra wood. I could have just planted 20 other trees in the 11x11 area around the large tree and got way more wood much faster.
But then let's talk about block updates and timers. 5 stages of trees. Crops have stages but only take one block, so while Carrots have 8 stages, and 7 timers it is only 8 block updates. A birch tree currently has 2 stages (sapling and full tree), 1 timer, and maybe about 65 block updates. So yeah, way more than a carrot as far as block updates, but less in stages and timers. Now let's look at a tree with this system.
Stage 1: Planted Sapling, 1 block update, timer 1
Stage 2: Stick Sapling, 1-2 block updates, timer 2
Stage 3: Small tree, maybe around 20 block updates, timer 3
Stage 4: Normal tree, about 65 block updates, timer 4 (if initial check for stage 5 passes)
Stage 5: big tree, easily a couple hundred block updates, no timer.
So at best you have 2 more timers than normal and a bit more for block updates, and at worst you have another (very long) timer and a couple hundred extra block updates more. For basically no tangible gain, just tweaking aesthetics to the OP's liking. Not to mention stages 3 and 4 would require special blocks to store the fact that it can grow to another tree.
As for the regrowing trees, TheMasterCaver explained it thouroughly why it would be a lot for very little return. As for the part of Green Wood expanding indefinitely as long as it eventually goes to the roots or leaves, that wouldn't really work. Imagine playing on low render distance. You try to make a green wood path or something using them, and you place enough of them to get so far away from the root it unloads. Then the game goes "oh crap, these green logs aren't connected to anything. Time to make them normal logs!" The game doesn't remember what exists in unloaded chunks which is why Minecarts can't travel to unloaded chunks.
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The fifth stage part seems to be quite vague, could you perhaps add more to that? And as others have stated it is quite complex which is unnecessary considering wood is such an abundant resource and common at that, farming in Minecraft is so simple currently that complex trees would stand far out compared to wheat crops and reeds. No support.
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A God that holds you over the pit of Hell, much as one holds a spider or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked. - Jonathan Edwards
"Living trees" is way to complex - you basically have to make trees tile entities, which will cause extreme performance issues in forests and jungles (which already cause issues, they even removed big oak trees from forests in 1.7-1.8 because of lag, even on Mojang's high-end computers). Why tile entities and not just use block updates (like grass?) You'd need to store the structure of the tree so the game knows where leaves should grow back; this is also why "seasons" suggestions that suggest that trees drop/regrow leaves are also out of the question (if you doubt having to track so much data would cause lag, see this, and mineshafts are much less common than trees). Also, if trees replaced dirt with "root blocks" which do not drop dirt then you'd eventually run out of dirt (not really an issue in a normal world but would definitely be a problem in Skyblock or other custom worlds with limited dirt. It would also be annoying to have to replace it, sort of like if you had to retill farmland after harvesting crops, but more since the farmland is not consumed).
Also, trees do not "act the same" if you cut one down and rebuild it elsewhere - player-placed leaf blocks will never decay even if there are no logs nearby; I presume that you want this to be removed. You are also adding new blocks with little purpose other than "living" trees and little difference from "dead" wood blocks.
IMO, trees are fine as they currently are; they could add more variants of trees (not necessarily more types of wood, more variants of the same blocks) and make branches use all-side bark logs (especially acacia) but not this.
I'm not a really big fan. Not because it is a bad idea, because it isn't. This is a good idea I just like the simplistic way it works now. This adds a bunch of complexity to a mechanic that exists solely to give the player a renewable source for the most basic, common item in the game.
I'm not big on micromanagement for the sake of micromanagement or realism.
The fifth stage part seems to be quite vague, could you perhaps add more to that? And as others have stated it is quite complex which is unnecessary considering wood is such an abundant resource and common at that, farming in Minecraft is so simple currently that complex trees would stand far out compared to wheat crops and reeds. No support.
I have remmooooooved the Green Wood, because that was simply a bad idea.
The Stages remain though. I'm going to add a picture of what I think the Stage 5 trees would look like.
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The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
Thanks! I added it into a spoiler, for any curious peoples, like you!
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I think trees should randomly drop an apple or saplings, and there should still be a root block. Destroying the roots makes it so it no longer drops stuff randomly, you have to do it the normal way then.
I think trees should randomly drop an apple or saplings, and there should still be a root block. Destroying the roots makes it so it no longer drops stuff randomly, you have to do it the normal way then.
That would require a rather complex system to have a root block issue control over a specific area, which would be complex in dense forests where root blocks could overlap their controlled areas. Besides there is an easier way. Make so any Oak/Dark Oak leaf with an exposed bottom side (otherwise the drop would just get stuck in the block below) not placed by a player and is connected to a log can drop Apples. All that code already exists in the game. Then it is just a matter of how much it drops.
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I am bumping this thread rather than make a new one about better trees.
I agree that trees should have a better growth system. Crops grow in 7 stages. So why not trees? And why should a huge meter-wide tree grow instantaneously when crops take forever? It makes no sense, or more importantly, it's not consistent with everything else in the game that grows gradually. Trees were one of the first features in Minecraft... why not overhaul them a bit??
I guess I should start off by saying that the current trees really bug me. They start as a sapling, and randomly grow into a tree that you can use to build your house. While I don’t think they should take any longer to grow, I do think a couple more stages of trees, like most crops have, would be much better.
TREE STAGES:
Trees would have 4 stages, with an additional 5th stage that could happen occasionally, with the correct circumstances.
The First stage is a Sapling. These work just like usual; You can get them from leaf blocks, and plant them on dirt. They will eventually grow to the second stage.
The Second stage is still a sapling, but now it is a solid, albeit thin, block, sort of like a fence. It can be one block, a block and a half, or two blocks tall. (Though it is still all treated as one block, sorta like a bed.) Breaking this sapling will give you 2-6 sticks, and 0-1 saplings.
The Third stage uses normal sized wood blocks, but the tree is really short. So an oak tree would be two or three blocks of wood, surrounded by a small sphere of leaves.
The Fourth stage is a normal sized tree. It works just like a normal tree.
The special Fifth stage requires a few more things than a normal tree, so it won’t happen as often. It is a giant version of the tree, wider and taller, with branches and leaves, and a few wood log block roots at the bottom.
This fifth stage requires:
-a direct view of the sky.
-No other trees or blocks within 5 blocks to the side.
-to be planted above sea level
-There cannot be another Stage 5 tree within 100 blocks
-a long time to wait…
-cannot be grown with bonemeal
Every once in a while, in oak and birch forests, a tree will spawn with no leaves, vines growing on it, and mushrooms around and on it.
LIVING TREES
The second part of this is that there could be much better tree mechanics than there is now. Normally I don’t focus on stuff like this, but for trees I’ll make an exception.
Right now, trees grow, but then when you chop them down and place them somewhere else, they act just the same. Which, at least in my opinion, doesn’t make sense. Chopping down a tree kills it.
So my fix, and an addition to the tree mechanics is to create a few extra blocks.
Green Wood:
Chopping down a tree will still give you the same wood you have always gotten. But now, before you cut a tree down, it will consist of Green Wood. Breaking Green Wood will drop normal wood, so that part doesn’t change at all.
Leaves next to dead Wood will still degrade, but they won’t next to Green Wood.
It looks much the same as normal, dead wood, except it is a little more vibrant.
Green Wood is very fire resistant.
Roots:
When the tree grows into a full tree, it turns the block under it into a Root block.
Roots, when broken, drop 1-4 sticks, and have a small chance of dropping a potato or a carrot. The dirt blocks around the Root will have a small appearance change, and look as if they have roots growing through them. Breaking this Root Dirt will drop 1-2 sticks. Placing fresh dirt near a Root will slowly grow more roots in it.
To keep Green Wood alive, it has to be connected to both a Root block and a Leaf block, or a Green Wood block that is connected to them. The Green Wood can extend between Root and leaves indefinitely.
Removing all the Root next to Green Wood will instantly kill it, turning it to normal wood. Removing all the Leaves won’t kill it immediately, but it will die eventually. The good news is that, if there are some Leaves or Roots remaining, the tree can slowly grow back more. So breaking only a few leaves, the tree can grow back more.
Silk Touch and Shears still work for both Green Wood and Roots. But placing Green Wood anywhere except on Roots will instantly kill it, and if it doesn’t get leaves quick, it will still die.
If a tree loses all of its leaves, but not its roots, it will have a chance to grow vines. These Dead trees have a chance to spawn naturally.
This was a bad idea so I removed it.
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
Support, this is very nice and I think this would make tree farming much more interesting, how ever 5 stage trees should be able to be made with any condition in creative, for adventure maps and that stuff.
Support
If you like threads about mobs, then my threads are mainly about that: http://www.minecraftforum.net/members/AGmantheAG/threads
So, say, bonemealing a Stage four while in creative would allow it to become a stage Five? That makes sense... I'll add it! I can't right at the moment though, because I am using the Minecraft Forum app and its super slow....
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
"Living trees" is way to complex - you basically have to make trees tile entities, which will cause extreme performance issues in forests and jungles (which already cause issues, they even removed big oak trees from forests in 1.7-1.8 because of lag, even on Mojang's high-end computers). Why tile entities and not just use block updates (like grass?) You'd need to store the structure of the tree so the game knows where leaves should grow back; this is also why "seasons" suggestions that suggest that trees drop/regrow leaves are also out of the question (if you doubt having to track so much data would cause lag, see this, and mineshafts are much less common than trees). Also, if trees replaced dirt with "root blocks" which do not drop dirt then you'd eventually run out of dirt (not really an issue in a normal world but would definitely be a problem in Skyblock or other custom worlds with limited dirt. It would also be annoying to have to replace it, sort of like if you had to retill farmland after harvesting crops, but more since the farmland is not consumed).
Also, trees do not "act the same" if you cut one down and rebuild it elsewhere - player-placed leaf blocks will never decay even if there are no logs nearby; I presume that you want this to be removed. You are also adding new blocks with little purpose other than "living" trees and little difference from "dead" wood blocks.
IMO, trees are fine as they currently are; they could add more variants of trees (not necessarily more types of wood, more variants of the same blocks) and make branches use all-side bark logs (especially acacia) but not this.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I'm not a really big fan. Not because it is a bad idea, because it isn't. This is a good idea I just like the simplistic way it works now. This adds a bunch of complexity to a mechanic that exists solely to give the player a renewable source for the most basic, common item in the game.
I'm not big on micromanagement for the sake of micromanagement or realism.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
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Please do, who wouldn't want these trees in an adventure map?
If you like threads about mobs, then my threads are mainly about that: http://www.minecraftforum.net/members/AGmantheAG/threads
It literally takes the same amount of time to grow as a normal tree, just more stages, there is no extra micromanagement in here.
If you like threads about mobs, then my threads are mainly about that: http://www.minecraftforum.net/members/AGmantheAG/threads
I did not know player placed leaved did not decay Good to know.
The Living trees seems to be a bad idea, simply because it is too complex... But what about the different stages? Without the roots or the Green Wood, are the different stages a good idea?
Same question for you, Badprenup. (If ypu don't see this by tomorrow, I'll edit it to tag you or something... The app is too clow to risk quoting)
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
The first part is good, but the second part gets a little confusing and unnecessary. Otherwise good!
I really like the first part, but not so much the second part. Also I have a question, would the stages cause trees to take longer to fully grow?
Half support
The micromanagement was referring more to the 5th tree stage and the assumption that leaves and green wood would mean that player placed leaves would decay over time, similar to what TheMasterCaver thought. Both of those would be rather annoying. And while I know I wouldn't HAVE to make level 5 trees but enforcing a sky check AND a height check AND a normal tree distance check AND a different tree distance check for other level 5 trees AND an extremely long timer for it AND make it not skippable with Bonemeal is just silly for a piddly amount of extra wood. I could have just planted 20 other trees in the 11x11 area around the large tree and got way more wood much faster.
But then let's talk about block updates and timers. 5 stages of trees. Crops have stages but only take one block, so while Carrots have 8 stages, and 7 timers it is only 8 block updates. A birch tree currently has 2 stages (sapling and full tree), 1 timer, and maybe about 65 block updates. So yeah, way more than a carrot as far as block updates, but less in stages and timers. Now let's look at a tree with this system.
Stage 1: Planted Sapling, 1 block update, timer 1
Stage 2: Stick Sapling, 1-2 block updates, timer 2
Stage 3: Small tree, maybe around 20 block updates, timer 3
Stage 4: Normal tree, about 65 block updates, timer 4 (if initial check for stage 5 passes)
Stage 5: big tree, easily a couple hundred block updates, no timer.
So at best you have 2 more timers than normal and a bit more for block updates, and at worst you have another (very long) timer and a couple hundred extra block updates more. For basically no tangible gain, just tweaking aesthetics to the OP's liking. Not to mention stages 3 and 4 would require special blocks to store the fact that it can grow to another tree.
As for the regrowing trees, TheMasterCaver explained it thouroughly why it would be a lot for very little return. As for the part of Green Wood expanding indefinitely as long as it eventually goes to the roots or leaves, that wouldn't really work. Imagine playing on low render distance. You try to make a green wood path or something using them, and you place enough of them to get so far away from the root it unloads. Then the game goes "oh crap, these green logs aren't connected to anything. Time to make them normal logs!" The game doesn't remember what exists in unloaded chunks which is why Minecarts can't travel to unloaded chunks.
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The fifth stage part seems to be quite vague, could you perhaps add more to that? And as others have stated it is quite complex which is unnecessary considering wood is such an abundant resource and common at that, farming in Minecraft is so simple currently that complex trees would stand far out compared to wheat crops and reeds. No support.
A God that holds you over the pit of Hell, much as one holds a spider or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked. - Jonathan Edwards
It would not make them take longer.
If you like threads about mobs, then my threads are mainly about that: http://www.minecraftforum.net/members/AGmantheAG/threads
I have remmooooooved the Green Wood, because that was simply a bad idea.
The Stages remain though. I'm going to add a picture of what I think the Stage 5 trees would look like.
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
Thanks! I added it into a spoiler, for any curious peoples, like you!
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
Support
I think trees should randomly drop an apple or saplings, and there should still be a root block. Destroying the roots makes it so it no longer drops stuff randomly, you have to do it the normal way then.
If you like threads about mobs, then my threads are mainly about that: http://www.minecraftforum.net/members/AGmantheAG/threads
That would require a rather complex system to have a root block issue control over a specific area, which would be complex in dense forests where root blocks could overlap their controlled areas. Besides there is an easier way. Make so any Oak/Dark Oak leaf with an exposed bottom side (otherwise the drop would just get stuck in the block below) not placed by a player and is connected to a log can drop Apples. All that code already exists in the game. Then it is just a matter of how much it drops.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
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Strange, I always thought trees counted as structures
If you like threads about mobs, then my threads are mainly about that: http://www.minecraftforum.net/members/AGmantheAG/threads
I am bumping this thread rather than make a new one about better trees.
I agree that trees should have a better growth system. Crops grow in 7 stages. So why not trees? And why should a huge meter-wide tree grow instantaneously when crops take forever? It makes no sense, or more importantly, it's not consistent with everything else in the game that grows gradually. Trees were one of the first features in Minecraft... why not overhaul them a bit??
I found this mod that does a great take on it. Unfortunately it is only supported by version 1.7.
https://mods.curse.com/mc-mods/minecraft/252818-growing-trees
This really should be vanilla!
ThanatosMace