@ EliminatorZigma
Yes games are developed by team, but if sabata is a game dev (which I highly doubt), he should be able to handle making and fleshing out one small idea such as this one with out the help of other people. I never saw myself getting butthurt, Sabata is the one whinning about how I am too mean to his idea. The quote in my signature was the guy trying to insult me sarcastically. So I put it in my signature to be funny. I don't take it seriously. Also I never claimed to work in the game industry.
Also, shepherds do not have to gain animals trust. Most shepherds take care of sheep. Sheep are possibly the dumbest animal on earth. They do not have the mental capability to trust a person. A shepherd's job is to watch the flock and make sure no animals run away. The reasons sheep stay in a group is the shepherd and (if he has them), his dogs keep them in group. That's why the shepherd's staff has a crook on the end, for hooking the sheep around the next and pulling it into the group. There is no trust.
More exploits,
Animal greifing on SMP. Lead a huge herd into a persons house. This could also be done with animals not despawning, making the server lag from trying to keep track of all the hugged animals. Another reason why non-despawning animals should require materials.
(not sure if this would work) surrounding yourself with animals to keep monsters away.
The mob grinder and cliff Idea are better then killing the animals out right, because you do not have to waste durability.
The cliff would work by you making a 5X1 horizontal platform over the edge of a cliff, leading a herd of animals off a cliff, and letting them all fall when they push each other off the narrow ledge.
The Mob Grinder could be done by having a platform over the grinder that you could climb up. The animals try to get under you and the fall in the grinder.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Yeah the argument doesn't really work for things already implemented into the game, such as the Axe argument, but I'm not trying to justify something already in game.
If Notch adds hugging to make mobs follow you, and then later adds the Shepherd's Staff to make them follow you forever or never despawn, that's up to him.
I'm trying to make this suggestion so it has as LITTLE impact on other things he wants to add as possible.
To put it another way, Like in the Aether thread, if Notch adds Marble to the Overworld Grey would remake the portal to the Aether with Marble (maybe), but until then he's not going to require a new block be added just for a feature already in game.
If Notch adds a Shepherd's Staff, then I'll add it as a possibility to this idea, but until then I'm not going to require a new item be added just for a feature that can be done elseways.
@muncher
You're still presenting Ad Hominem attacks, and attempting to call into question my credibility is not only another Ad Hominem but also an attempt to derail the topic. Simply put, you're not going to get your answer here.
And all your "abuses" can either be done easier, faster, or fixed by PUNCHING.
*edit*
Minor note, while I do state it in my signature, I NEVER outright state it to try and say "I'm right and you're wrong". I have it in there specifically for the reason that I DON'T have to state "I'm in game dev" every time I make a critique or comment. You're the second person who has taken my signature as a sign of "lawl I'm bettar dan u!" And out of the thousands of people who have undoubtedly seen it... I think that's saying something.
I don't like messing with the GUI, but I think that's the best implementation of a restriction on "hugs" I've heard.
And with it's, relatively, simple description it could be used for more things than just this should it be implemented (ie, running, swimming faster, climbing ladders faster, etc)
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
I'll give it some thought. It needs a little more in depth before topic creation since it would interact with already created stuff much moreso than this idea.
Hugging is fine, but hugging everything and having it follow you IS overpowered. I like the climbing idea, and the creeper hug method, simply because it gives people a third alternative to a creeper rather than killing it or running away. And I like to think of creepers as lost souls who just want a friend, but are refused because of their alien-ness and therefore 'splode everyone they see.
I can barely begin how to understand how this idea is being taken seriously.
I've once did something like this on a Zombie MMO, and vigorously defended my argument, all the while the weak-minded players agreed with me just because I sounded smart.
All it was, was an inconspicuous and advanced form of trolling.
I don't think this is like that situation, but I have a few doubts
I'll just put it this way... Regardless of what was said before, Hugging is too overpowered. Creepers should not simply "run away" or "skip away merrily" because of a random right-click through a door. Nor should they even smile in the first place.
Animal domestication should not be preformed with a simple right-click either, but rather some complicated proccess of feeding, sheltering, and giving water, along with a specialized item like the Sheperd's crook.
All that leaves is climbing, which has already been extensivly covered in another thread with much more detail.
In the End this idea as is:
Ruins a great section of the Survival theme of the game; e.g. circumventing the detonating horror at your front door.
Makes the game greatly easier; someone can rapily mash their right mouse button and survive a Creeper dungeon if it were nothing.
Decimates the concept of farming; our hunter-gatherer ansestors didn't hug a mammoth to make it follow them around.
and it just flat out ruins the feel of the game.
If you want more of my undivided attention, please feel free to have it.
I do love a good debate every once in a while,
It's really the only reason I go into Suggestion sections of game forums.
Since contributing seems to fail so miserably.
Have you ever seen someone hug another person through a door?
Have you ever seen anyone, in Minecraft, ATTACK through a door (Left click)?
What makes you think this will be able to that?
Also, which thread suggested a climbing mechanic with Right Click? The only thread I know of is just one that allows you to "clamber" up 2 high walls and that was ages ago.
Also, remember that (currently) You are STUCK to your position while "hugging". And with the idea of the Stamina Bar, all you have to do is make it so that "good long hug" requires all of the Stamina you have and tada, Creeper Dungeons are still a threat.
While your attention is focused entirely on one creeper, trying to make it smile, the other FOUR are surrounding you and starting to sizzle.
Anyways, since you seem to be behind the "make items for this instead" idea, I have the question I present to every thread.
Why have it require NEW items when it can be done differently?
At first, I laughed reading this thinking hugging creepers this dude Is either a great troll, a hilarious comedian, or a complete retard. I thought, wow muncher, he's being sarcastic. I now realize you are dead serious. Muncher, you're dead wrong for being a jerk about it and while insulting him as a person and calling him a 12 year old, that just makes YOU look retarded. This idea has some potential. Hugging creepers, even with a stamina bar, DESTROYS the theme of the game. I think even as a mod it'd be an awful idea. (an optional one). I think the climbing idea is great and would support the higher heights deeper depths and bigger trees idea. I think stamina would be a great idea to fit in with the realistic mode idea. I think hugging spiders or grabbing them (call it what you want) would be a fun way to get silk if there was a limit on how much each one could produce. Domestic animals would need more limit as everyone has agreed on. Maybe it would involve water and wheat or bread to domesticate them and stop them from despawning. To prevent lag, we could turn them into an object as you leave that chunk. After domesticating an animal, right clicking it could toggle following you or not. This prevents new items and it being to easy. The absence of someone in a chunk causing it to be an object would prevent massive server lag. Chickens could be picked up, but domesticating it would cause it to not try to run away. Creepers cannot be domesticated but holding it could cause you to move for 3 or 4 extra seconds before it blowing up. This will prevent it from blowing up you're structure but the pentalty will be almost certain death. Domesticated spiders turn aggressive the next night but during the day it produces more silk. All animals must be constantly fed to keep them alive.
go as close to the door as possible and you can attack through it, i love doing it to creepers .. free sulpher lol
I think that'd be more of a bug than anything intended.
So in counter I'd say abuse hit detection/a bug if you like, but I wouldn't count on it sticking around.
I have a fair amount of stuff to do over this week so I'll still be active but I can only update the OP roughly around the weekend.
Then I read on: Sabata I thought you were better then this.
This would be an interesting game concept. It would have to be much slower to avoid making ladders obsolete.
BUT PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHANGE THE NAME. The "hug a creeper" **** is already dumb enough this is just encouraging the retards. Please. Maybe "shimmying" or "scaling" Please. Do not give the 12 year olds more reasons to spout their "hug a creeper" ****.
Also the hugging a creeper making it smile is just dumb. It is. It removes a threat of the creeper and is just stupid.
I have to agree with muncher on the creeper hugging.
It is "stupid" Though I'll just say it's "unnecessary" and "silly"
Hugging would take away the terror the mornings have to offer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only a few find the way, Some don't recognize it when they do. Some don't ever want to..." ~Cheshire cat.
@sabata2
To your first comment: Thanks. I've been told I'm more mature than most people my age.
But I digress. Yes, the length of time an animal follows you should be around the time length you suggested, and hugging again would reset the time.
I'm not sure how hard it would be to program a pen area where mobs wouldn't de-spawn. To simplify it, the pen should have to be on a flat surface, possibly only in a rectangular shape. To make it even simpler, have a pen area only "activate" if it's a specific size-- say, a 10x10 enclosed fence, and possibly have to have some sort of feeding item (yes, I know you don't like adding unnecessary items, but for herding this may be necessary). This should probably be part of a more expanded thread on herding and breeding, though, so I won't go too much into it.
I don't think a "Trust" feature would work, as most animals in the real world will try to be free if given the chance.
Maybe with certain future animals like wolves and horses, but the current "livestock" animals shouldn't be able to trust you.
On the topic of picking up small animals: It makes more sense to be able to simply pick up chickens and slimes and dropping them into your pens instead of having to corral them. As a counter-balance, maybe chickens would try to avoid you so you'd have to chase them.
Heh, I just noticed that I forgot to mention a rather important concept on the creeper-hugging part. I think that maybe creepers WOULD follow you after you hugged them, but not as long as animals do-- possibly around 10-15 seconds? And then they'd stop for a while before becoming hostile again. Although now that I think of it, it might be better if hugged creepers moved away from you for a short time, and then pause a bit before becoming hostile again. It'd be kind of like it thinks "Hey, wait, I still want to explode someone." That'd add a bit of humor to Minecraft.
But I agree, the creeper part needs to have more thought put into it. Though I'm kinda liking Squidaga's death hold idea. No, I'm partly serious. What if you could put creepers into a stranglehold, which would keep them from exploding, and you could move them (slowly) to certain areas. The downside could be simply that other mobs could attack you while you're tussling with the creeper, or you could have a stamina bar on top of that to decrease the ease-of-use.
@muncher21
Perhaps I was a bit too harsh with the insults. I shouldn't have to resort to name calling. I was unaware that the quoted comment was sarcastic, though I both agree with the sarcasm and still think it's getting to your head.
Yes, sabata could develop this idea on his own. In fact, he did. He thought out most of the dynamics involved with this concept and tried to balance them to the best of his abilities, given his limited knowledge of how Minecraft is coded. However, he knows that the best results come from getting feedback from the rest of the community as to what they want from the idea since, try as he might, he can't think of a solution by himself on which all Minecrafters can agree.
When I look back on it, I admit you were right about the way some herded animals, particularily sheep, act around humans, and how they can't "trust" people. That concept applies more to canines and horses, as I've stated above. However, the hugging method suggested would be a way to herd animals rather than having to code in a new item that interacts with animals. It wouldn't have to be a "hug" per se, but it would get animals to follow you. Like I said before, it's not any stranger than other things already in Minecraft.
As to your suggestions of exploits, those could be problems remedied by a simple following limit. A simple solution I've thought of: make it so only 2 or 3 animals can follow you at a time. This would remove animal griefing (unless you're really dedicated), protecting yourself from enemies, and abusing mob grinders. It could also possibly prevent mass cliff-killings.
@Squidaga
Minecraft isn't supposed to be explicitly survival-horror, just survival. The horror aspects come in mainly at night and in caves. I agree that creepers can't be that easy to get rid of, and I think either my suggestion of returning to hostility or sabata's/your idea of stamina bars (whether in hugging or choke-holding) would be an effective solution. As for the herding problem, as I stated previously, "hugging" would be a Minecraftian alternative to the real-life methods, but a proper herding system should be developed in a separate thread. Also, our ancestors didn't fight creepers, make jukeboxes, or cut down trees with their bear hands, either.
I'd rather this not be a debate (though I think it's too late for that). I'd rather have a civil discussion on the pros, cons, and improvements to this concept. I'm not here to make enemies.
Ok, I'll call it dumb. Honestly, How would you get animals to follow you just by hugging them? The animals are so stupid right now they jump of cliffs! How are they supposed to realize what a hug means? A Shepard staff would make tons more sense.
And creepers. They are the bane of your existence. How would hugging one make it stop exploding? It's just stupid. For someone who claims to work in a game design field, you seem very immature. Anyone that likes the stupid "GivE CREepERs HUGZZZ!!!" **** is just an idiot. Plain and simple.
Now that I think about it this does'nt serve any purpose other then feeding the idiotic twelve year olds who think the "hugging creepers" **** is cool. Honestly, if this keeps up the game will end up like spore. A deep engaging game turned into kiddie causal ****.
What purpose does this have other then giving the kids more of a reason to shout " JUst WaNT TeH HuGZZ!!!"
You should stop insulting people's ideas like they're the stupidest thing ever.
You should try to hug a creeper.
OT:When I first read the title I was like "Moving on..."
But I HAD to click it.So I did.Kinda weird,but interesting.That's all I can say right now.
Yes games are developed by team, but if sabata is a game dev (which I highly doubt), he should be able to handle making and fleshing out one small idea such as this one with out the help of other people. I never saw myself getting butthurt, Sabata is the one whinning about how I am too mean to his idea. The quote in my signature was the guy trying to insult me sarcastically. So I put it in my signature to be funny. I don't take it seriously. Also I never claimed to work in the game industry.
Also, shepherds do not have to gain animals trust. Most shepherds take care of sheep. Sheep are possibly the dumbest animal on earth. They do not have the mental capability to trust a person. A shepherd's job is to watch the flock and make sure no animals run away. The reasons sheep stay in a group is the shepherd and (if he has them), his dogs keep them in group. That's why the shepherd's staff has a crook on the end, for hooking the sheep around the next and pulling it into the group. There is no trust.
More exploits,
Animal greifing on SMP. Lead a huge herd into a persons house. This could also be done with animals not despawning, making the server lag from trying to keep track of all the hugged animals. Another reason why non-despawning animals should require materials.
(not sure if this would work) surrounding yourself with animals to keep monsters away.
The mob grinder and cliff Idea are better then killing the animals out right, because you do not have to waste durability.
The cliff would work by you making a 5X1 horizontal platform over the edge of a cliff, leading a herd of animals off a cliff, and letting them all fall when they push each other off the narrow ledge.
The Mob Grinder could be done by having a platform over the grinder that you could climb up. The animals try to get under you and the fall in the grinder.
If Notch adds hugging to make mobs follow you, and then later adds the Shepherd's Staff to make them follow you forever or never despawn, that's up to him.
I'm trying to make this suggestion so it has as LITTLE impact on other things he wants to add as possible.
To put it another way, Like in the Aether thread, if Notch adds Marble to the Overworld Grey would remake the portal to the Aether with Marble (maybe), but until then he's not going to require a new block be added just for a feature already in game.
If Notch adds a Shepherd's Staff, then I'll add it as a possibility to this idea, but until then I'm not going to require a new item be added just for a feature that can be done elseways.
@muncher
You're still presenting Ad Hominem attacks, and attempting to call into question my credibility is not only another Ad Hominem but also an attempt to derail the topic. Simply put, you're not going to get your answer here.
And all your "abuses" can either be done easier, faster, or fixed by PUNCHING.
*edit*
Minor note, while I do state it in my signature, I NEVER outright state it to try and say "I'm right and you're wrong". I have it in there specifically for the reason that I DON'T have to state "I'm in game dev" every time I make a critique or comment. You're the second person who has taken my signature as a sign of "lawl I'm bettar dan u!" And out of the thousands of people who have undoubtedly seen it... I think that's saying something.
Jokes aside, I like this idea for the climbing, it should give you a stamina bar, when that runs out you let go of the wall and fall(so its not op).
I hate ssssss boom "OH NO my house" so this would save me some time and resources.
I don't like messing with the GUI, but I think that's the best implementation of a restriction on "hugs" I've heard.
And with it's, relatively, simple description it could be used for more things than just this should it be implemented (ie, running, swimming faster, climbing ladders faster, etc)
Please make.
I'll give it some thought. It needs a little more in depth before topic creation since it would interact with already created stuff much moreso than this idea.
Wow! That's some approval!
Go ahead and help my dragon! Maybe you can get one too!
I sure know I'll click it!
I can barely begin how to understand how this idea is being taken seriously.
I've once did something like this on a Zombie MMO, and vigorously defended my argument, all the while the weak-minded players agreed with me just because I sounded smart.
All it was, was an inconspicuous and advanced form of trolling.
I don't think this is like that situation, but I have a few doubts
I'll just put it this way... Regardless of what was said before, Hugging is too overpowered. Creepers should not simply "run away" or "skip away merrily" because of a random right-click through a door. Nor should they even smile in the first place.
Animal domestication should not be preformed with a simple right-click either, but rather some complicated proccess of feeding, sheltering, and giving water, along with a specialized item like the Sheperd's crook.
All that leaves is climbing, which has already been extensivly covered in another thread with much more detail.
In the End this idea as is:
Ruins a great section of the Survival theme of the game; e.g. circumventing the detonating horror at your front door.
Makes the game greatly easier; someone can rapily mash their right mouse button and survive a Creeper dungeon if it were nothing.
Decimates the concept of farming; our hunter-gatherer ansestors didn't hug a mammoth to make it follow them around.
and it just flat out ruins the feel of the game.
If you want more of my undivided attention, please feel free to have it.
I do love a good debate every once in a while,
It's really the only reason I go into Suggestion sections of game forums.
Since contributing seems to fail so miserably.
Have you ever seen anyone, in Minecraft, ATTACK through a door (Left click)?
What makes you think this will be able to that?
Also, which thread suggested a climbing mechanic with Right Click? The only thread I know of is just one that allows you to "clamber" up 2 high walls and that was ages ago.
Also, remember that (currently) You are STUCK to your position while "hugging". And with the idea of the Stamina Bar, all you have to do is make it so that "good long hug" requires all of the Stamina you have and tada, Creeper Dungeons are still a threat.
While your attention is focused entirely on one creeper, trying to make it smile, the other FOUR are surrounding you and starting to sizzle.
Anyways, since you seem to be behind the "make items for this instead" idea, I have the question I present to every thread.
Why have it require NEW items when it can be done differently?
I think that'd be more of a bug than anything intended.
So in counter I'd say abuse hit detection/a bug if you like, but I wouldn't count on it sticking around.
I have a fair amount of stuff to do over this week so I'll still be active but I can only update the OP roughly around the weekend.
I have to agree with muncher on the creeper hugging.
It is "stupid" Though I'll just say it's "unnecessary" and "silly"
Hugging would take away the terror the mornings have to offer.
To your first comment: Thanks. I've been told I'm more mature than most people my age.
But I digress. Yes, the length of time an animal follows you should be around the time length you suggested, and hugging again would reset the time.
I'm not sure how hard it would be to program a pen area where mobs wouldn't de-spawn. To simplify it, the pen should have to be on a flat surface, possibly only in a rectangular shape. To make it even simpler, have a pen area only "activate" if it's a specific size-- say, a 10x10 enclosed fence, and possibly have to have some sort of feeding item (yes, I know you don't like adding unnecessary items, but for herding this may be necessary). This should probably be part of a more expanded thread on herding and breeding, though, so I won't go too much into it.
I don't think a "Trust" feature would work, as most animals in the real world will try to be free if given the chance.
Maybe with certain future animals like wolves and horses, but the current "livestock" animals shouldn't be able to trust you.
On the topic of picking up small animals: It makes more sense to be able to simply pick up chickens and slimes and dropping them into your pens instead of having to corral them. As a counter-balance, maybe chickens would try to avoid you so you'd have to chase them.
Heh, I just noticed that I forgot to mention a rather important concept on the creeper-hugging part. I think that maybe creepers WOULD follow you after you hugged them, but not as long as animals do-- possibly around 10-15 seconds? And then they'd stop for a while before becoming hostile again. Although now that I think of it, it might be better if hugged creepers moved away from you for a short time, and then pause a bit before becoming hostile again. It'd be kind of like it thinks "Hey, wait, I still want to explode someone." That'd add a bit of humor to Minecraft.
But I agree, the creeper part needs to have more thought put into it. Though I'm kinda liking Squidaga's death hold idea. No, I'm partly serious. What if you could put creepers into a stranglehold, which would keep them from exploding, and you could move them (slowly) to certain areas. The downside could be simply that other mobs could attack you while you're tussling with the creeper, or you could have a stamina bar on top of that to decrease the ease-of-use.
@muncher21
Perhaps I was a bit too harsh with the insults. I shouldn't have to resort to name calling. I was unaware that the quoted comment was sarcastic, though I both agree with the sarcasm and still think it's getting to your head.
Yes, sabata could develop this idea on his own. In fact, he did. He thought out most of the dynamics involved with this concept and tried to balance them to the best of his abilities, given his limited knowledge of how Minecraft is coded. However, he knows that the best results come from getting feedback from the rest of the community as to what they want from the idea since, try as he might, he can't think of a solution by himself on which all Minecrafters can agree.
When I look back on it, I admit you were right about the way some herded animals, particularily sheep, act around humans, and how they can't "trust" people. That concept applies more to canines and horses, as I've stated above. However, the hugging method suggested would be a way to herd animals rather than having to code in a new item that interacts with animals. It wouldn't have to be a "hug" per se, but it would get animals to follow you. Like I said before, it's not any stranger than other things already in Minecraft.
As to your suggestions of exploits, those could be problems remedied by a simple following limit. A simple solution I've thought of: make it so only 2 or 3 animals can follow you at a time. This would remove animal griefing (unless you're really dedicated), protecting yourself from enemies, and abusing mob grinders. It could also possibly prevent mass cliff-killings.
@Squidaga
Minecraft isn't supposed to be explicitly survival-horror, just survival. The horror aspects come in mainly at night and in caves. I agree that creepers can't be that easy to get rid of, and I think either my suggestion of returning to hostility or sabata's/your idea of stamina bars (whether in hugging or choke-holding) would be an effective solution. As for the herding problem, as I stated previously, "hugging" would be a Minecraftian alternative to the real-life methods, but a proper herding system should be developed in a separate thread. Also, our ancestors didn't fight creepers, make jukeboxes, or cut down trees with their bear hands, either.
I'd rather this not be a debate (though I think it's too late for that). I'd rather have a civil discussion on the pros, cons, and improvements to this concept. I'm not here to make enemies.
Taming Spiders!
My Suggestions on Goblin Villages
just hope people read the whole thread as I have yet to update the main post.
You should stop insulting people's ideas like they're the stupidest thing ever.
You should try to hug a creeper.
OT:When I first read the title I was like "Moving on..."
But I HAD to click it.So I did.Kinda weird,but interesting.That's all I can say right now.