I'd like to start off with a nice message to those planning to just sweep in and out of this thread: Don't.
Why am I saying this? Well, I thought you might ask. I am very much interested in discussing the topic, but there is not much discussion to be had if everyone just sweeps in to shoot down the flaws of the thread. In fact, for this thread, I will make a nice little list of guidelines. Do mind that although as guidelines, they do not need to be strictly followed, it is very much suggested if you wish for me to reply to your post.
The first guideline: Don't say "support", "no support", or any other variation of "supporting" the thread. I do not intend to be supported, but rather have a discussion about the topic.
The second guideline: Do not exclusively reply to the OP (aka me). A discussion only goes so far if everyone focuses on one person.
The third guideline: Make sure not to make redundant statements. Saying something everyone already has concluded has just as big of an effect as stating that a rock looks like a rock.
The fourth guideline: Make it clear whether something is opinion, assumption, facts, or anything else. If you assume that hunger would be harder if food gave you less hunger, then treat it like an assumption and don't use it as a fact to prove something.
The final guideline: Discuss, don't criticize. It's okay to give constructive feedback, but the point should be to discuss the topic, rather than approving or dismissing something and moving on. If your intention is to straight out improve the suggestion, then at least discuss it rather than just giving a list of 70 things wrong with X and how to fix them.
Now of course, I may seem a little bit pretentious, but I believe that these guidelines help improve the quality of discussion. Feel free to dismiss them, but unless your post adds to the discussion, and that me replying to it would do so as well, then I won't reply to you. I'm not saying this is the best way to do things, but I believe it's better than nothing.
The actual suggestion (wow!)
Moving on with the suggestion itself, I suggest that copper is added, and replaces the stone tier of tools, having the same stats and no equivalent armour. Copper would spawn in close and around the surface, similarly to coal, while having the vein sizes of iron. It also has a higher chance to spawn exposed to air, allowing you to viably find it on the surface without mining underground. Like iron, you would have to smelt it into ingots, but the tools are the same as stone tools, with a different sprite to match it of course.
Of course such a drastic change has lots of effects, here are some of the pros and cons.
Pros
Wooden tools would no longer be redundant after a minute.
Early progression is slowed to better match progression for the rest of the game.
Iron would be further away in progression, allowing for leather armour to possibly find itself useful.
Cons
Early game could feel a bit too RNG dependant on copper ore spawns, similarly to coal before charcoal.
Older players may find themselves annoyed by the extra time it takes to find copper ore.
The pace of the game would be slowed early on with weapons and tools being slower.
Overall, the reason I started off with the huge introduction is because... I don't think the copper tier is the best idea ever. It's flawed in many ways, but I think it still has some good in it. It's not a "horrible suggestion too much bad 7.8/10", but it's not exactly a "10/10 would want" idea either.
Off topic: My formatting
Sorry if the formatting is odd, I am trying something new. If you have any feedback on my formatting, try to keep it in a spoiler tag clearly marked as off topic so as to not divert focus off the topic.
I don't know how I feel about this. I wonder, does copper have other uses? That would stop copper from being a tool only ore. I am on the fence with this. Would this also replace stone tools in updates, like if I have an existing stone tool, would it be replaced?
To answer the first question: Not so far. I'd rather make a small suggestion that expands over time rather than a large one that gets it content cut away over time. There is definitely room for some new items though, considering how copper is similar to Lapis in that it's not really for tools and such.
And yes, copper tools would replace the ID of stone tools. This is not only to not have unused ID slots, but it would also increase compatibility with older versions, since they're practically the same tools but with different sprites.
I agree with Prism that it is not your job to tell us how to respond.
I think this would be very annoying as wooden tools are very bad. The pickaxe has 60 uses, Would this be buffed? And takes forever to mine a single stone (would the speed be increased?).
What is the mining speed of copper with a wooden tool.
Also, As soon as you get iron copper becomes redundant and probably annoying. Stone has many uses so it is always worth getting.
Oh and; Your basically saying that Copper is as strong as stone. I think it would be almost as strong as iron.
So, it is not your job to make the guidelines for the thread. Actually, being the owner of the thread, yeah it is. Shaddy isn't allowed to make up new forums rules for you, but making guidelines and asking for others to follow them is actually an amazing thing to do. So I wont listen to them. As Shaddy made sure to say, you're allowed to do that. Because he's just trying to bring some structure to his thread, not making up new rules.
Why is this needed? We have had the stone tools for a really long time, there is no need for change. That's like saying, America had slaves for a long time, why switch to paid workers? Or a less biased example; movies have been black and white forever, why change them to color? This would only make everything way harder for new players, as they would have to mine with wooden tools. You already have to mine with wooden tools. The fact that you only have to use wooden tools is a serious problem, which is what this suggestion is addressing. Mining with wooden tools would be a pain for them. A slower start to the game isn't just a pain. A change of pace isn't such a bad thing. Those would just be some sprites sitting in the game. I honestly don't know what you mean by this sentence, could you please clarify? Also, what about maps? This would break the Skyblock map horribly, as the only tools you can have are stone, and this would reduce it to wooden tier, which is very ineffective. Minecraft doesn't decide whether to add things or not based on maps. Do you have any idea how many maps the new attacking system will ruin? It's the job of the map creators to adapt with the game, not the other way around. Overall, this would be just unnecesarry work to code it in just to replace something that works just fine. It wouldn't be that hard to code. It's basically just making stone tools look different, and making an ore with the spawn rates of surface coal. And just because stone tools work doesn't mean they can't be improved.
NO SUPPORT!
Responses in bold. Sorry if I was overly salty, I just don't appreciate people being foolishly rude to one of the few good critics on here.
Now, here's my take on the suggestion: I like that wood tools would now actually become a use, because, as any seasoned player knows, you only ever make a wooden pickaxe, and you only use it 3 times while you gather stone. I like the idea of making wood tools more worthwhile. I like the idea of slowing the pace of the game overall, even though many might disagree with that. Leather armor being useful is yet another perk of that. It's also great that it doesn't just take out stone from the game, since I mean obviously stone is still everywhere and still used in like a million crafting recipes. So this is really just adding more to the game, without taking anything away. Having the extra metal could be great for new items and crafting recipes Mojang could be thinking of. The only thing that I'm thinking of that this really would need, is a bunch of other uses for copper, to truly put it into the crafting web of Minecraft. Also without being used in that web, copper is basically useless after you get iron tools, which is a problem. Unfortunately you can't just add a billion uses for copper in this thread, as that would be too wishlisty and everything, and sort of ruins suggestions. One of the biggest problems with making suggestions. But rambling aside, I really like this idea and its implications. And I invite people to argue against any of the idea I presented here, I always love a good debate
Edit: Wow while I was writing this 3 more people posted and ninja-ed me
I like the idea of Copper, but I don't think it has a use in vanilla Minecraft. I'm writing a mod that makes Minecraft harder and I might include this idea, but if you want to increase difficulty in vanilla Minecraft you also need to focus on a broken hunger system and other things like that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I bought and started playing Minecraft on March 22nd, 2012, during 1.2.3.
I agree with Prism that it is not your job to tell us how to respond. As I said to Prism, it's nothing bad of Shaddy to be giving guidelines so don't be rude about it. He was very clear that you could still post as usual, so you should repay that with politely saying you'd prefer to reply like you normally do, not rage at Shaddy for trying something new.
I think this would be very annoying as wooden tools are very bad. The pickaxe has 60 uses, Would this be buffed? And takes forever to mine a single stone (would the speed be increased?). It doesn't take forever. It's about the speed it takes to mine iron with a stone pickaxe, you can live with it.
What is the mining speed of copper with a wooden tool.
Also, As soon as you get iron copper becomes redundant and probably annoying. Stone has many uses so it is always worth getting. This is a good point, copper would need to have more uses. But that can't really be addressed until people decide how they think about the tool tier first.
Oh and; Your basically saying that Copper is as strong as stone. I think it would be almost as strong as iron. I assume you're talking, real life equivalents? Because that's not correct. Copper is much weaker than iron. True, it may be stronger than stone, but with copper tools you're no longer comparing it to stone.
No support.
Responses in bold. Sorry if I was salty
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
To Xystem, they changed the stuff you listed in examples because they found better alternatives to that. The stone tools are good as they are, no need to change it to , something different. Copper is not the worst idea ever, it just is not good as an replacement for stone. I am saying that you would have to mine a lot with wooden tools to find the copper, and that might take a long time and annoy new players.
The system of tiers is very balanced and works very well in the current state. No need to change that.
Ok now that, is how you should've said it the first time
However, I do believe that copper is also one of those better alternatives. Taking a slower pace to the game isn't some terrible thing. It actually solves a lot of problems with the game. In my opinion, players should have to work with wooden tools more, and that way it will make the tier upgrades a better improvement overall. Who cares how much better stone tools are if you only have to use a wooden pick 3 times? This way, it's not just "worse than iron", it's "better than wood"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Well... I don't really care either way. One one hand,it's another block to build with(assuming 9 copper ingots makes a copper block), but on the other hand, if You have really bad luck with world terrain generation you may be stuck with wood tools for a long long time. The ore would have to be quite common to prevent this, without being so common that the player has stacks and stacks of the stuff by mid-game. Also, I would rather have the ore be tin than copper, to match the color of "stone" armor, the chainmail set. I'm also glad this thread isn't about replacing redstone for "realism".
To Xystem, yeah I like this more than most of other suggestions about more tiers, but I just do not feel like this is needed.
Sure, and that's just your opinion after all. Personally, I believe that with enough work this could enhance how players go about the game. I like the idea of slow-paced worlds, they always just seem to be better ones. I still like this idea
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
This would be good if you enjoy something like slower gameplay, as Xystem said. I could imagine that a lot of people who prefer fast-paced worlds would be upset about this, and that's why this shouldn't be in vanilla.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I bought and started playing Minecraft on March 22nd, 2012, during 1.2.3.
Shaddura has once again placed me in-between the see-saw (Unless there has been a thread by Shaddura where I have had mixed feelings on it.). It's an ore that completely replaces the Stone Tier, and this itself is followed by a few important cons and pros. As you stated, this would make the game progress at a decent pace, and makes Wooden tools last longer than it should, but on the other hand, it would get rather annoying dealing with the slow mining speed of Wood and trying to find veins of Copper to get to the next tier. Another thing is that you would need to find this ore before progressing to other ores, so if you come across Iron before actually getting Copper, you will still have to continue mining to achieve that ore. While that's not a big huge problem to poke at, comparing how you would deal with this situation with the Stone Tier, it's more pleasant than going all around the place to get Copper before moving on to Iron.
Now theres only one big thing I like about this suggestion, it makes every tier more necessary, as with the Wooden tier. But this is the only pro you have given to this large change. And I believe there are more cons than there are of pros. Perhaps there could be more to this Copper, but then again I remember that this an ore replacing an existing tier.
This would be good if you enjoy something like slower gameplay, as Xystem said. I could imagine that a lot of people who prefer fast-paced worlds would be upset about this, and that's why this shouldn't be in vanilla.
Yeah, a lot of people try and argue about how all of the experienced players would be frustrated by things because it makes the game slower and stuff. Which I don't really agree with. Minecraft isn't about speed running to the End, it's about building up your world and taking your time. I'm a Minecraft vet, and I don't rush through the game. But that's just some people's opinions. Really annoying when they act like all the pros just go really fast, and that's what makes them a pro
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Yeah, a lot of people try and argue about how all of the experienced players would be frustrated by things because it makes the game slower and stuff. Which I don't really agree with. Minecraft isn't about speed running to the End, it's about building up your world and taking your time. I'm a Minecraft vet, and I don't rush through the game. But that's just some people's opinions. Really annoying when they act like all the pros just go really fast, and that's what makes them a pro
I completely agree with you that one way of playing Minecraft is slowly, and that's the way I like to play. However, Minecraft is a game without any rules: you can play Minecraft any way you want to. I would love to play with Copper, but I know also a lot of people wouldn't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I bought and started playing Minecraft on March 22nd, 2012, during 1.2.3.
I completely agree with you that one way of playing Minecraft is slowly, and that's the way I like to play. However, Minecraft is a game without any rules: you can play Minecraft any way you want to. I would love to play with Copper, but I know also a lot of people wouldn't.
Yeah, and the problem of having it easily accessible for a player in the beginning of a game, but not having overwhelming amounts late-game is a big one
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Well... I don't really care either way. One one hand,it's another block to build with(assuming 9 copper ingots makes a copper block), but on the other hand, if You have really bad luck with world terrain generation you may be stuck with wood tools for a long long time.
This is an issue that I did see, which is why I included it as the first con.
That however leads to this.
The ore would have to be quite common to prevent this, without being so common that the player has stacks and stacks of the stuff by mid-game.
A solution to this could be to have copper exclusively generate at around surface level and higher, with it no longer spawning around the depth that Lapis Lazuli begins to spawn. You would have to explore to find pockets of copper, effectively making you discover new areas of your world which also helps slow the pace a bit early on, but since copper does not generate at lower levels, you wouldn't be getting it once you begin mining for diamonds and such.
Of course an issue with that would be that if new usages existed for copper, you'd have to mine at higher levels. In such a case, it could also be possible to have them generate in a newbie-friendly rate around the surface while lowered to a much more bearable level deeper underground. The latter seems to work well, do you not think so...?
Also, I would rather have the ore be tin than copper, to match the color of "stone" armor, the chainmail set. I'm also glad this thread isn't about replacing redstone for "realism".
Although tin would fit the colour of stone, there are some issues with it. First of all, it'd be gray like iron, which could be confusing to some. Also, as far as I know, tin is not as usable as copper is for a lot of things. Additionally, there aren't any orange/reddish tools, so copper would add some more colour variation as well.
Shaddura has once again placed me in-between the see-saw (Unless there has been a thread by Shaddura where I have had mixed feelings on it.).
I'm glad to know I'm making threads that you find noteworthy!
It's an ore that completely replaces the Stone Tier, and this itself is followed by a few important cons and pros. As you stated, this would make the game progress at a decent pace, and makes Wooden tools last longer than it should, but on the other hand, it would get rather annoying dealing with the slow mining speed of Wood and trying to find veins of Copper to get to the next tier.
I agree, it slows down the game, but I don't think the pace at which you would reach to copper would be too bad if, as stated in my reply to Toxic, the ore was more common near the surface to accommodate for newer players. It'd still require some exploration, and as a bonus it introduces the furnace even earlier to the player (Similarly to an older suggestion of mine. Y'know, the one about using smooth stone for tools?).
Another thing is that you would need to find this ore before progressing to other ores, so if you come across Iron before actually getting Copper, you will still have to continue mining to achieve that ore. While that's not a big huge problem to poke at, comparing how you would deal with this situation with the Stone Tier, it's more pleasant than going all around the place to get Copper before moving on to Iron.
This is very possible, but with increased copper spawn rate near the surface, I think you'd be very unlikely to find iron first unless you began mining for it on the spot, and even then you'd have to be unlucky and not find any near-surface veins of copper. It's more prevalent than finding diamonds before iron, but I don't really think there is much else to do other than what I've already said earlier.
Now theres only one big thing I like about this suggestion, it makes every tier more necessary, as with the Wooden tier. But this is the only pro you have given to this large change. And I believe there are more cons than there are of pros. Perhaps there could be more to this Copper, but then again I remember that this an ore replacing an existing tier.
This is exactly why I posted this! Stone tools have always felt like the first tier you go through, with wood tools just being a stepping stone. Of course, copper could probably end up with more uses, but I decided to start small with this. Expansions may be done to alleviate this lack of uses.
Yeah, and the problem of having it easily accessible for a player in the beginning of a game, but not having overwhelming amounts late-game is a big one
Having copper ores spawn abundantly near the surface could fix this.
I've said that 30 times in this mega-reply now. I should stop telling people to not be redundant, and then answer the same question several times in a row with the same answer. Ged demmet sheddura.
Note to everyone who I did not respond to.
I'm sorry for not responding to you one by one, but I just felt that I did not have anything to add to your post. This may either be because you did not follow the guidelines well, or more likely, I simply did not know what to reply with.
I thank you for your time, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience you may experience from my inability to think of a reply.
I like the idea in principle but agree as others stated copper is lacking in usefulness once you find iron. So let's consider some potential additional uses for copper that will make it at least potentially useful.
Copper Rails - This alone would ensure copper stays useful once the player finds iron. Creating a railway of significant length ordinarily uses a large amount of iron. Seeing as the iron is usually better used elsewhere I usually end up never bothering with rails, this will encourage players to use minecarts and railways for player and item transportation.
Copper Hoppers - Similar to rails, I'd use significantly more hoppers in my builds if they didn't cost me so much iron.
Copper Pipes - An alternative to copper hoppers would be pipes. These would connect to and extend hoppers and have a maximum range for how far an item can be pushed (thinking 16 blocks). One slot inventory, can't pull from inventories other than hoppers or other pipes, can push items into an inventory in the same way as a hopper or dropper.
Possible additional benefit: Ability to carry a redstone signal (same distance as redstone dust), this allows for easy vertical redstone transmission and redstone transmission through small bodies of water. Not to mention the possibility of hanging lamps, chandeliers, and minimalist street lamps each of able to be turned on and off.
Copper Door - Like the wooden door it can be opened by a player right clicking on it, however it's significantly sturdier than a wooden door against zombies. Copper doors also can't catch fire... which would mean something if wooden doors in Minecraft were actually flammable.
Copper Button - I'm not sure but I think the pulse length of the redstone signal from wooden buttons are longer than stone buttons. It might be convenient for there to be another button with a shorter pulse length than stone.
Copper Pressure Plate - Wooden pressure plates activate when any entity is on top of them. Stone pressure plates only activate when a mob or player is on top of them. The copper pressure plate would only activate for players.
While i do like to play the game on slow level, i wouldn't like this ingame, Not saying it is a Bad suggestion it is Very good and WILL make the game tiers much better and give each one a more of use-ness, if this will ever be added then it should be a mod that i would love to try, but not as vanilla
many peoples who Like to Play Fast will see this as an annoying addon..
I Like the concept of this Suggestion
But not the replacing thing.. Sorry
i will have to give off Partial Support!!
(but if this was ever to be added, i wouldn;t mind it)
There's no sense and setting up your guidelines for a thread, we have two massive stickied guides for that, and it's not gonna stop people posting how they want...
I only see this as something that slightly slows down the player's move up the ladder for better ores. It would take a bit longer to go from stone-to-iron than copper-to-iron, which is the point of the suggestion, but I don't see that as being a good thing. I see that more as a neutral "why not" sort of change...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
I'd like to start off with a nice message to those planning to just sweep in and out of this thread: Don't.
Why am I saying this? Well, I thought you might ask. I am very much interested in discussing the topic, but there is not much discussion to be had if everyone just sweeps in to shoot down the flaws of the thread. In fact, for this thread, I will make a nice little list of guidelines. Do mind that although as guidelines, they do not need to be strictly followed, it is very much suggested if you wish for me to reply to your post.
The first guideline: Don't say "support", "no support", or any other variation of "supporting" the thread. I do not intend to be supported, but rather have a discussion about the topic.
The second guideline: Do not exclusively reply to the OP (aka me). A discussion only goes so far if everyone focuses on one person.
The third guideline: Make sure not to make redundant statements. Saying something everyone already has concluded has just as big of an effect as stating that a rock looks like a rock.
The fourth guideline: Make it clear whether something is opinion, assumption, facts, or anything else. If you assume that hunger would be harder if food gave you less hunger, then treat it like an assumption and don't use it as a fact to prove something.
The final guideline: Discuss, don't criticize. It's okay to give constructive feedback, but the point should be to discuss the topic, rather than approving or dismissing something and moving on. If your intention is to straight out improve the suggestion, then at least discuss it rather than just giving a list of 70 things wrong with X and how to fix them.
Now of course, I may seem a little bit pretentious, but I believe that these guidelines help improve the quality of discussion. Feel free to dismiss them, but unless your post adds to the discussion, and that me replying to it would do so as well, then I won't reply to you. I'm not saying this is the best way to do things, but I believe it's better than nothing.
The actual suggestion (wow!)
Moving on with the suggestion itself, I suggest that copper is added, and replaces the stone tier of tools, having the same stats and no equivalent armour. Copper would spawn in close and around the surface, similarly to coal, while having the vein sizes of iron. It also has a higher chance to spawn exposed to air, allowing you to viably find it on the surface without mining underground. Like iron, you would have to smelt it into ingots, but the tools are the same as stone tools, with a different sprite to match it of course.
Of course such a drastic change has lots of effects, here are some of the pros and cons.
Pros
Wooden tools would no longer be redundant after a minute.
Early progression is slowed to better match progression for the rest of the game.
Iron would be further away in progression, allowing for leather armour to possibly find itself useful.
Cons
Early game could feel a bit too RNG dependant on copper ore spawns, similarly to coal before charcoal.
Older players may find themselves annoyed by the extra time it takes to find copper ore.
The pace of the game would be slowed early on with weapons and tools being slower.
Overall, the reason I started off with the huge introduction is because... I don't think the copper tier is the best idea ever. It's flawed in many ways, but I think it still has some good in it. It's not a "horrible suggestion too much bad 7.8/10", but it's not exactly a "10/10 would want" idea either.
Off topic: My formatting
Sorry if the formatting is odd, I am trying something new. If you have any feedback on my formatting, try to keep it in a spoiler tag clearly marked as off topic so as to not divert focus off the topic.
To answer the first question: Not so far. I'd rather make a small suggestion that expands over time rather than a large one that gets it content cut away over time. There is definitely room for some new items though, considering how copper is similar to Lapis in that it's not really for tools and such.
And yes, copper tools would replace the ID of stone tools. This is not only to not have unused ID slots, but it would also increase compatibility with older versions, since they're practically the same tools but with different sprites.
I agree with Prism that it is not your job to tell us how to respond.I think this would be very annoying as wooden tools are very bad. The pickaxe has 60 uses, Would this be buffed? And takes forever to mine a single stone (would the speed be increased?).
What is the mining speed of copper with a wooden tool.
Also, As soon as you get iron copper becomes redundant and probably annoying. Stone has many uses so it is always worth getting.
Oh and; Your basically saying that Copper is as strong as stone. I think it would be almost as strong as iron.
No support.
Responses in bold. Sorry if I was overly salty, I just don't appreciate people being foolishly rude to one of the few good critics on here.
Now, here's my take on the suggestion: I like that wood tools would now actually become a use, because, as any seasoned player knows, you only ever make a wooden pickaxe, and you only use it 3 times while you gather stone. I like the idea of making wood tools more worthwhile. I like the idea of slowing the pace of the game overall, even though many might disagree with that. Leather armor being useful is yet another perk of that. It's also great that it doesn't just take out stone from the game, since I mean obviously stone is still everywhere and still used in like a million crafting recipes. So this is really just adding more to the game, without taking anything away. Having the extra metal could be great for new items and crafting recipes Mojang could be thinking of. The only thing that I'm thinking of that this really would need, is a bunch of other uses for copper, to truly put it into the crafting web of Minecraft. Also without being used in that web, copper is basically useless after you get iron tools, which is a problem. Unfortunately you can't just add a billion uses for copper in this thread, as that would be too wishlisty and everything, and sort of ruins suggestions. One of the biggest problems with making suggestions. But rambling aside, I really like this idea and its implications. And I invite people to argue against any of the idea I presented here, I always love a good debate
Edit: Wow while I was writing this 3 more people posted and ninja-ed me
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Stuff I support:
Click here to get Rick-Rolled. No seriously
I like the idea of Copper, but I don't think it has a use in vanilla Minecraft. I'm writing a mod that makes Minecraft harder and I might include this idea, but if you want to increase difficulty in vanilla Minecraft you also need to focus on a broken hunger system and other things like that.
Responses in bold. Sorry if I was salty
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Stuff I support:
Click here to get Rick-Rolled. No seriously
Ok now that, is how you should've said it the first time
However, I do believe that copper is also one of those better alternatives. Taking a slower pace to the game isn't some terrible thing. It actually solves a lot of problems with the game. In my opinion, players should have to work with wooden tools more, and that way it will make the tier upgrades a better improvement overall. Who cares how much better stone tools are if you only have to use a wooden pick 3 times? This way, it's not just "worse than iron", it's "better than wood"
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Stuff I support:
Click here to get Rick-Rolled. No seriously
Well... I don't really care either way. One one hand,it's another block to build with(assuming 9 copper ingots makes a copper block), but on the other hand, if You have really bad luck with world terrain generation you may be stuck with wood tools for a long long time. The ore would have to be quite common to prevent this, without being so common that the player has stacks and stacks of the stuff by mid-game. Also, I would rather have the ore be tin than copper, to match the color of "stone" armor, the chainmail set. I'm also glad this thread isn't about replacing redstone for "realism".
Sure, and that's just your opinion after all. Personally, I believe that with enough work this could enhance how players go about the game. I like the idea of slow-paced worlds, they always just seem to be better ones. I still like this idea
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Stuff I support:
Click here to get Rick-Rolled. No seriously
This would be good if you enjoy something like slower gameplay, as Xystem said. I could imagine that a lot of people who prefer fast-paced worlds would be upset about this, and that's why this shouldn't be in vanilla.
Shaddura has once again placed me in-between the see-saw (Unless there has been a thread by Shaddura where I have had mixed feelings on it.). It's an ore that completely replaces the Stone Tier, and this itself is followed by a few important cons and pros. As you stated, this would make the game progress at a decent pace, and makes Wooden tools last longer than it should, but on the other hand, it would get rather annoying dealing with the slow mining speed of Wood and trying to find veins of Copper to get to the next tier. Another thing is that you would need to find this ore before progressing to other ores, so if you come across Iron before actually getting Copper, you will still have to continue mining to achieve that ore. While that's not a big huge problem to poke at, comparing how you would deal with this situation with the Stone Tier, it's more pleasant than going all around the place to get Copper before moving on to Iron.
Now theres only one big thing I like about this suggestion, it makes every tier more necessary, as with the Wooden tier. But this is the only pro you have given to this large change. And I believe there are more cons than there are of pros. Perhaps there could be more to this Copper, but then again I remember that this an ore replacing an existing tier.
Yeah, a lot of people try and argue about how all of the experienced players would be frustrated by things because it makes the game slower and stuff. Which I don't really agree with. Minecraft isn't about speed running to the End, it's about building up your world and taking your time. I'm a Minecraft vet, and I don't rush through the game. But that's just some people's opinions. Really annoying when they act like all the pros just go really fast, and that's what makes them a pro
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Stuff I support:
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I completely agree with you that one way of playing Minecraft is slowly, and that's the way I like to play. However, Minecraft is a game without any rules: you can play Minecraft any way you want to. I would love to play with Copper, but I know also a lot of people wouldn't.
Yeah, and the problem of having it easily accessible for a player in the beginning of a game, but not having overwhelming amounts late-game is a big one
Even though my Join date is in 2014, I tried the demo on 8/30/2012, and bought the game two days later on 9/1/2012. So hipster
Stuff I support:
Click here to get Rick-Rolled. No seriously
This is an issue that I did see, which is why I included it as the first con.
That however leads to this.
A solution to this could be to have copper exclusively generate at around surface level and higher, with it no longer spawning around the depth that Lapis Lazuli begins to spawn. You would have to explore to find pockets of copper, effectively making you discover new areas of your world which also helps slow the pace a bit early on, but since copper does not generate at lower levels, you wouldn't be getting it once you begin mining for diamonds and such.
Of course an issue with that would be that if new usages existed for copper, you'd have to mine at higher levels. In such a case, it could also be possible to have them generate in a newbie-friendly rate around the surface while lowered to a much more bearable level deeper underground. The latter seems to work well, do you not think so...?
Although tin would fit the colour of stone, there are some issues with it. First of all, it'd be gray like iron, which could be confusing to some. Also, as far as I know, tin is not as usable as copper is for a lot of things. Additionally, there aren't any orange/reddish tools, so copper would add some more colour variation as well.
I'm glad to know I'm making threads that you find noteworthy!
I agree, it slows down the game, but I don't think the pace at which you would reach to copper would be too bad if, as stated in my reply to Toxic, the ore was more common near the surface to accommodate for newer players. It'd still require some exploration, and as a bonus it introduces the furnace even earlier to the player (Similarly to an older suggestion of mine. Y'know, the one about using smooth stone for tools?).
This is very possible, but with increased copper spawn rate near the surface, I think you'd be very unlikely to find iron first unless you began mining for it on the spot, and even then you'd have to be unlucky and not find any near-surface veins of copper. It's more prevalent than finding diamonds before iron, but I don't really think there is much else to do other than what I've already said earlier.
This is exactly why I posted this! Stone tools have always felt like the first tier you go through, with wood tools just being a stepping stone. Of course, copper could probably end up with more uses, but I decided to start small with this. Expansions may be done to alleviate this lack of uses.
Having copper ores spawn abundantly near the surface could fix this.
I've said that 30 times in this mega-reply now. I should stop telling people to not be redundant, and then answer the same question several times in a row with the same answer. Ged demmet sheddura.
Note to everyone who I did not respond to.
I'm sorry for not responding to you one by one, but I just felt that I did not have anything to add to your post. This may either be because you did not follow the guidelines well, or more likely, I simply did not know what to reply with.
I thank you for your time, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience you may experience from my inability to think of a reply.
Perhaps it normally spawns at the same rate as iron, but in the spawn chunks it spawns at say, quadruple that amount?
This might not work that well for servers though, since new players would be unable to find enough copper in the non-spawn chunks.
I like the idea in principle but agree as others stated copper is lacking in usefulness once you find iron. So let's consider some potential additional uses for copper that will make it at least potentially useful.
Copper Rails - This alone would ensure copper stays useful once the player finds iron. Creating a railway of significant length ordinarily uses a large amount of iron. Seeing as the iron is usually better used elsewhere I usually end up never bothering with rails, this will encourage players to use minecarts and railways for player and item transportation.
Copper Hoppers - Similar to rails, I'd use significantly more hoppers in my builds if they didn't cost me so much iron.
Copper Pipes - An alternative to copper hoppers would be pipes. These would connect to and extend hoppers and have a maximum range for how far an item can be pushed (thinking 16 blocks). One slot inventory, can't pull from inventories other than hoppers or other pipes, can push items into an inventory in the same way as a hopper or dropper.
Possible additional benefit: Ability to carry a redstone signal (same distance as redstone dust), this allows for easy vertical redstone transmission and redstone transmission through small bodies of water. Not to mention the possibility of hanging lamps, chandeliers, and minimalist street lamps each of able to be turned on and off.
Copper Door - Like the wooden door it can be opened by a player right clicking on it, however it's significantly sturdier than a wooden door against zombies. Copper doors also can't catch fire... which would mean something if wooden doors in Minecraft were actually flammable.
Copper Button - I'm not sure but I think the pulse length of the redstone signal from wooden buttons are longer than stone buttons. It might be convenient for there to be another button with a shorter pulse length than stone.
Copper Pressure Plate - Wooden pressure plates activate when any entity is on top of them. Stone pressure plates only activate when a mob or player is on top of them. The copper pressure plate would only activate for players.
While i do like to play the game on slow level, i wouldn't like this ingame, Not saying it is a Bad suggestion it is Very good and WILL make the game tiers much better and give each one a more of use-ness, if this will ever be added then it should be a mod that i would love to try, but not as vanilla
many peoples who Like to Play Fast will see this as an annoying addon..
I Like the concept of this Suggestion
But not the replacing thing.. Sorry
i will have to give off Partial Support!!
(but if this was ever to be added, i wouldn;t mind it)
I'm just a very boring person.
There's no sense and setting up your guidelines for a thread, we have two massive stickied guides for that, and it's not gonna stop people posting how they want...
I only see this as something that slightly slows down the player's move up the ladder for better ores. It would take a bit longer to go from stone-to-iron than copper-to-iron, which is the point of the suggestion, but I don't see that as being a good thing. I see that more as a neutral "why not" sort of change...
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048