Now that we've reached above 100 posts and 1000 views, i think this is a good time to put what everyone thinks into a more visual form =]
Grats on the Net Traffic this post is getting!(Its definetly deserved) I hope people actually use the poll, in too many topics have I seen them simply be empty :sad.gif:.
so far it's six for six :biggrin.gif:
question about mechanics however...
what would happen if a lava and a water meet within a grate block? I would say the best solution would be only the one there first would continue to go first, however, I am a small bit of a programmer, and i know that that would be hell to code, so i think the better solution would be, for example:
1) ⇨⇦
2)
3)
the only other option i can think of would be to say that only the fluid with the closer sourse (stronger flow) would get to continue
anyone else have opinions on this?
Well I see what you are saying with this, and I counter that it wouldn't be that difficult, have three different forms of grate, empty, filled with water, and filled with lava. As soon as water or lava touches the block it would 'transform' so to speak into a different form corresponding to it, and hen not let water pass through. That still leaves the issue of a closed grate surrounded on two sides by lava and water on the other two sides. How would it react when opened? I have no idea. Maybe have a priority list so to say that always lets water in before lava or vice vera. Or it coul just destroy itself or something. Good thinking!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
question about mechanics however...
what would happen if a lava and a water meet within a grate block? I would say the best solution would be only the one there first would continue to go first, however, I am a small bit of a programmer, and i know that that would be hell to code, so i think the better solution would be, for example:
1) ⇨⇦
2)
3)
the only other option i can think of would be to say that only the fluid with the closer sourse (stronger flow) would get to continue
anyone else have opinions on this?
Well I see what you are saying with this, and I counter that it wouldn't be that difficult, have three different forms of grate, empty, filled with water, and filled with lava. As soon as water or lava touches the block it would 'transform' so to speak into a different form corresponding to it, and hen not let water pass through. That still leaves the issue of a closed grate surrounded on two sides by lava and water on the other two sides. How would it react when opened? I have no idea. Maybe have a priority list so to say that always lets water in before lava or vice vera. Or it coul just destroy itself or something. Good thinking!
Lets keep this open for discussion for a day or so, and see if anyone has any other ideas on it the subject. Having the grate turn into cobblestone in this situation may make sense, but maybe there's something were not thinking about.
question about mechanics however...
what would happen if a lava and a water meet within a grate block? I would say the best solution would be only the one there first would continue to go first, however, I am a small bit of a programmer, and i know that that would be hell to code, so i think the better solution would be, for example:
1) ⇨⇦
2)
3)
the only other option i can think of would be to say that only the fluid with the closer sourse (stronger flow) would get to continue
anyone else have opinions on this?
If both fluids entered the drain at the same instant you would have a destroyed drain. It'd be clogged with cobble and become useless...
Though technically if you calculate the speed at which each fluid flows, which started flowing FIRST, the max distance each fluid CAN flow and the distance of each fluids source from the grate... Used that formula to see which WOULD pass through the grate first, and that's the side that the cobble would end up on.
Either that, or it would rip a hole in the MC universe and spawn an endless stream of creepers.
question about mechanics however...
what would happen if a lava and a water meet within a grate block? I would say the best solution would be only the one there first would continue to go first, however, I am a small bit of a programmer, and i know that that would be hell to code, so i think the better solution would be, for example:
1) ⇨⇦
2)
3)
the only other option i can think of would be to say that only the fluid with the closer sourse (stronger flow) would get to continue
anyone else have opinions on this?
If both fluids entered the drain at the same instant you would have a destroyed drain. It'd be clogged with cobble and become useless...
Though technically if you calculate the speed at which each fluid flows, which started flowing FIRST, the max distance each fluid CAN flow and the distance of each fluids source from the grate... Used that formula to see which WOULD pass through the grate first, and that's the side that the cobble would end up on.
Either that, or it would rip a hole in the MC universe and spawn an endless stream of creepers.
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That makes sense.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
Either that, or it would rip a hole in the MC universe and spawn an endless stream of creepers.
XD!!! sig'd!
back on topic... yeah, that would work for a normal situation, but my questioning was for if say there is a hole beneith the grate.
I think i am all for the turning the grate into cobblestone, because it will only happen in certain situations that can be easily avoided by the smart miner/architect, ihmo (if there was a hole and the grate was placed one lower, if the two were to head toward the same spot, the cobble would form above it, based on the already existing interactions of fluids)
alright! are you guys ready for this? I 'shopped up some concept art. check it out!
edit: @Nihilias, feel free to use this in your OP if you want! :biggrin.gif:
edit2: re-read the OP, question with redstone: should the "off" state be open, allowing things to pass? were it the other way around (the way its written currently), a grate just sitting on its own would not allow anything through, because without any redstone around, it is in it's "off" state
...re-read the OP, question with redstone: should the "off" state be open, allowing things to pass? were it the other way around (the way its written currently), a grate just sitting on its own would not allow anything through, because without any redstone around, it is in it's "off" state
yeah i agree so (i think) it's like a redstone torch... if you send a "ON" signal to the torch, the torch turns "OFF"... so it's same with the grate: you press the button and the water and items stop flowing though it then after a short while the water and items continue to where they were going... (i think this is right... i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong...)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
like my avatar? it's pretty cool huh? you want it don't you? because it's better than yours...
well... TOO BAD!
yeah i agree so (i think) it's like a redstone torch... if you send a "ON" signal to the torch, the torch turns "OFF"... so it's same with the grate: you press the button and the water and items stop flowing though it then after a short while the water and items continue to where they were going... (i think this is right... i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong...)
Yeah, that seems to be right, but i think a switch would work better for this than a button
yeah i agree so (i think) it's like a redstone torch... if you send a "ON" signal to the torch, the torch turns "OFF"... so it's same with the grate: you press the button and the water and items stop flowing though it then after a short while the water and items continue to where they were going... (i think this is right... i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong...)
Yeah, that seems to be right, but i think a switch would work better for this than a button
Split second opens for the win!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
yeah i agree so (i think) it's like a redstone torch... if you send a "ON" signal to the torch, the torch turns "OFF"... so it's same with the grate: you press the button and the water and items stop flowing though it then after a short while the water and items continue to where they were going... (i think this is right... i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong...)
First off: I don't wanna look stupid, but I like the Redstone idea about on and off, but frankly, 'technically speaking' I don't know jack squat about Redstone circuits, what's off and what's on, so to me on means it's working, not on as it's getting energy. IMO: This problem is a Semantic issue, but should be cleared up and changed to apply the sense from circuits, as it is using circuits.
As for the Water VS Lava in a Grate. this is how I see it.
flowing water moves faster than flowing lave.
Flowing water hitting flowing lava = lava turns to cobblestone.
Flowing Lava hitting flowing water = water evaporates.
if 2 sources somehow get placed and or fall into place that would make them hit the grate at the same time (water moves faster so wtf?) then I think a null space inside of the grate should be created, as lava is evaporating the water and the water is slowing the lava
If (what probably will more likely happen) water gets through first, then the lava touching the water would then turn to cobble stone as the flowing water would hit the new source of lava. preventing anymore lava moving forward as the cobblestone block in front of the grate would prevent it from going into the grate as water is there. (hole or passing)
and if lava is there first, I think there would be an evaporating "block" in front of the water as it just keeping getting evaporated by the moving lava block (hole or passing)
I'm not sure if I explained it all that clearly @[email protected] but That's how I see it with my experiences of the 2 liquids during my play time.
other ideas or implementations can be used, but I don't think this way would cause much of a problem. (but im no programmer, so i can be demanding :biggrin.gif: )
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I like making walls of Text.
You have now been Officially been warned!
unless you want to put a redstone torch on every single grate to get it to act as a grate, you want its off state to be open, and its on state to be closed. trust me, its a whole lot better, and it isnt hard to add an inverter if you really want to.
as for the lava + water, i am a bit of a programmer, and i've been trying to look into how it would work (i have no knowledge of how to mod minecraft, however; i'm just trying to see it from notch & co's view). It appears that water and lava have a list of blocks that they treat as 'empty' (air, other water, other lava). Now, were this to work, the grate (open) block would be added to that list. once that happens, the rest of the code for lava and water works with 'empty' blocks. Water and lava then check if they both try to occupy the same 'empty' block, if they do, the code places a cobblestone block where that 'empty' block is.
This is pretty much what I figure, and what seems like the most likely for notch to impliment, although i have no doubts that a fancier meathod of tile to tile interaction could be coded, it would spawn alot of bugs.
I support this idea with 1 minor tweak.
I see iron grates and ceramic/brick grates in the suggestion, but I see no major difference. Here is what I think:
*Through iron grates liquids and *items* pass;
*Through ceramic grated only liquids pass, items do not go through.
or vice versa... maybe? no? Maybe only trigger(able)?
Wood Grates (weakest... flammable)
-Only lets water and items through... Burns on contact with lava... so I GUESS that could be considered going through also... DOES NOT HAVE AN OFF STATE
Iron Grids
-Lets all fluids through. Tougher than wood. Automatically on the 'On' state, allowing fluids and items through. Can be turned off with power.
Ceramic Grates
-Lets water through, Catches items..? Off and On like Iron Grates
Other types of grates - Gold..? Cobble..?
Grate+
Grate + Chest = Grate that catches and stores items, but lets water pass
Well I see what you are saying with this, and I counter that it wouldn't be that difficult, have three different forms of grate, empty, filled with water, and filled with lava. As soon as water or lava touches the block it would 'transform' so to speak into a different form corresponding to it, and hen not let water pass through. That still leaves the issue of a closed grate surrounded on two sides by lava and water on the other two sides. How would it react when opened? I have no idea. Maybe have a priority list so to say that always lets water in before lava or vice vera. Or it coul just destroy itself or something. Good thinking!
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
Lets keep this open for discussion for a day or so, and see if anyone has any other ideas on it the subject. Having the grate turn into cobblestone in this situation may make sense, but maybe there's something were not thinking about.
EDIT: Where now on Get Satisfaction!
Whazzat?
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
If both fluids entered the drain at the same instant you would have a destroyed drain. It'd be clogged with cobble and become useless...
Though technically if you calculate the speed at which each fluid flows, which started flowing FIRST, the max distance each fluid CAN flow and the distance of each fluids source from the grate... Used that formula to see which WOULD pass through the grate first, and that's the side that the cobble would end up on.
Either that, or it would rip a hole in the MC universe and spawn an endless stream of creepers.
That makes sense.
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
XD!!! sig'd!
back on topic... yeah, that would work for a normal situation, but my questioning was for if say there is a hole beneith the grate.
I think i am all for the turning the grate into cobblestone, because it will only happen in certain situations that can be easily avoided by the smart miner/architect, ihmo (if there was a hole and the grate was placed one lower, if the two were to head toward the same spot, the cobble would form above it, based on the already existing interactions of fluids)
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...just an idea i thought up (don't know if anyone else thought of it) :biggrin.gif:
well... TOO BAD!
Ingenious!!
and more ascetically pleasing than a random row of ladders, too!
thanks good to know my ideas aren't complete wastes of time. XD
well... TOO BAD!
edit: @Nihilias, feel free to use this in your OP if you want! :biggrin.gif:
edit2: re-read the OP, question with redstone: should the "off" state be open, allowing things to pass? were it the other way around (the way its written currently), a grate just sitting on its own would not allow anything through, because without any redstone around, it is in it's "off" state
yeah i agree so (i think) it's like a redstone torch... if you send a "ON" signal to the torch, the torch turns "OFF"... so it's same with the grate: you press the button and the water and items stop flowing though it then after a short while the water and items continue to where they were going... (i think this is right... i'd be happy to be corrected if i'm wrong...)
well... TOO BAD!
Yeah, that seems to be right, but i think a switch would work better for this than a button
Split second opens for the win!
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
So now its a flood gate type thing?
I want to see stuff added to Minecraft now!!
As for the Water VS Lava in a Grate. this is how I see it.
flowing water moves faster than flowing lave.
Flowing water hitting flowing lava = lava turns to cobblestone.
Flowing Lava hitting flowing water = water evaporates.
if 2 sources somehow get placed and or fall into place that would make them hit the grate at the same time (water moves faster so wtf?) then I think a null space inside of the grate should be created, as lava is evaporating the water and the water is slowing the lava
If (what probably will more likely happen) water gets through first, then the lava touching the water would then turn to cobble stone as the flowing water would hit the new source of lava. preventing anymore lava moving forward as the cobblestone block in front of the grate would prevent it from going into the grate as water is there. (hole or passing)
and if lava is there first, I think there would be an evaporating "block" in front of the water as it just keeping getting evaporated by the moving lava block (hole or passing)
I'm not sure if I explained it all that clearly @[email protected] but That's how I see it with my experiences of the 2 liquids during my play time.
other ideas or implementations can be used, but I don't think this way would cause much of a problem. (but im no programmer, so i can be demanding :biggrin.gif: )
You have now been Officially been warned!
as for the lava + water, i am a bit of a programmer, and i've been trying to look into how it would work (i have no knowledge of how to mod minecraft, however; i'm just trying to see it from notch & co's view). It appears that water and lava have a list of blocks that they treat as 'empty' (air, other water, other lava). Now, were this to work, the grate (open) block would be added to that list. once that happens, the rest of the code for lava and water works with 'empty' blocks. Water and lava then check if they both try to occupy the same 'empty' block, if they do, the code places a cobblestone block where that 'empty' block is.
This is pretty much what I figure, and what seems like the most likely for notch to impliment, although i have no doubts that a fancier meathod of tile to tile interaction could be coded, it would spawn alot of bugs.
I see iron grates and ceramic/brick grates in the suggestion, but I see no major difference. Here is what I think:
*Through iron grates liquids and *items* pass;
*Through ceramic grated only liquids pass, items do not go through.
or vice versa... maybe? no? Maybe only trigger(able)?
Anyway: pretty awesome idea in general.
Wood Grates (weakest... flammable)
-Only lets water and items through... Burns on contact with lava... so I GUESS that could be considered going through also... DOES NOT HAVE AN OFF STATE
Iron Grids
-Lets all fluids through. Tougher than wood. Automatically on the 'On' state, allowing fluids and items through. Can be turned off with power.
Ceramic Grates
-Lets water through, Catches items..? Off and On like Iron Grates
Other types of grates - Gold..? Cobble..?
Grate+
Grate + Chest = Grate that catches and stores items, but lets water pass
Three times in a row for me, I never learn :biggrin.gif:
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.
Trapdoors have been suggested n to the power of 7 times.
When people ask you to have an open mind, they are actually telling you to "stop believing what you believe," and to "start believing what I believe."
History never repeats itself. Events never happen twice.