Ok. I've read your damn post millions of times. When I say things you say "are just me making things up" It's because obviously I'm not getting what you said. IF you don't say how trading is going to work, how can I know how it's going to work? You never said how it going to work, you just said there would be trading. Based on what you said about trading, "And you could trade wood, stone, and metal at a blacksmith for metal products."
You actually contradicted yourself. You said i didn't explain how it would work, then went on to explain what i explained.
Quote from muncher21 »
Does this mean I trade logs for iron, or possibly diamond?
How am I supposed to know when you have'nt told me?
There you go, except you are trying to add to what I've said, no one but you made mention of diamonds.
A woodcutter does not need wood, and would have a lot of it, as a woodcutter would need iron or stone, you could trade these things for wood, which he would have, since he's a woodcutter.
A mason would have a lot of stone, and you could trade her wood and iron for stone, since she would need wood and iron to get stone, and would have a lot of stone, since she is in fact, a mason.
Same with blacksmith. I'm not sure how this was confusing, but if you still require explanation, I can attempt to yet again explain in different words what was written in the original post.
Quote from muncher21 »
The problem with towns.
should read, "My concern with towns"
Quote from muncher21 »
You say from the 20 to the 41 chunk is civilization.
Chunks are, (a quote from minepedia)
"They are 16 blocks wide, 16 blocks long, and 128 blocks deep."
That means on normal render distance, I would be able to see civilization from spawn.
Please note, in the original post, that i stated that i was unfamiliar with the size of chunks, and if 20 chunks was not far enough away that the number of chunks should be doubled, or even tripled. So that a person could play the game, as it is now without Having to go into civilization, but not so far that the players would never encounter it.
Quote from muncher21 »
Voice acting doesn't belong in minecraft. It just doesn't. If you think it does, your wrong and your playing the wrong game.
This is your opinion, and yours alone. You do not declare or define what "belongs" in minecraft. You have only your opinion, it is not the end all authority on the matter, it is not better than anyone else's. It is simply YOUR opinion. This is a perfect example of the self-righteous attitude i was talking about. I trust by now you have looked it up. Don't use wikipedia, lol, search "Define: Self-Righteous" in google, you will get many versions and sources for the definition of the word.
Quote from muncher21 »
Your out-land sounded just like biomes, but impossible to code biomes. Notch has to code all of those things you want, such as map traps, avalanches, ship wrecks, flying mobs, volcanoes, and mountains. Then notch has to link this all to the NPCs that will mention each of these places for quests. Then, he has to code it so all of this is random and different for every map.
That is not possible. It's not.
You don't think very highly of Notch do you? The fact that you even heard the word biome shows that it has been done, and in fact it has.. though with a few bugs. You will notice in Minecraft that some areas are wooded, some are sandy beaches, some are just deserts, these are all biomes.. The nether is another example, you're telling me he can't code what he's already coded?
You're reaching for justifications citing your own imagination as a source.
Map traps already occur, though by accident, have you ever hung a torch on a gravel wall, just to watch the whole ceiling cave in? Map trap. I don't recall anything about avalanches, but they would work same as this. Many people have already built ships, a shipwreck would need only slight modification, and relocation. The flying mobs are already being created by Modders, just the other day i saw someone riding a flying horse. Volcanoes and mountains are already in the works, according to "what Notch has actually said".
I'm guessing that the "linking of NPCs" you are referring to references the "Quests" section. And while i didn't explain in great detail how that will work, i can do so now.
When the NPC was triggered to relay a rumor, or quest as i called it, be it through conversation or by idle chatter near the player, they would query the server for landmarks in the area around them (for example up to 10 chunks away now that i know how big a chunk is) if there were any landmarks (as a result of a dungeon being in the area, remember the quests section where it stated that dungeons would begin with a treasure or boss being spawned, then a cave growing outward from that point, populated with mobs of that bosses type, their structures etc. then ending the dungeon spawn with a landmark on the surface.) Once the server told the NPCs query that there was a landmark, that NPC would trigger the voice acting, or subtitles, that spoke of that landmark.
Quote from muncher21 »
You say there will only be a few houses, but here are all the buildings you say the player will be able to use.
Lumber shop
Masonry shop
Blacksmith's shop
Pub
Houses for the normal NPC's
Unless the city is only inhabited by a lumberjack, a stone mason, blacksmith, and a bar tender, I'm going to assume there will be 5 other "normal" npc's living in the city. ( I have to assume this because you never gave number of NPC's in the town in you post.)
That mean each of the 5 "normal" NPC's will have there own house.
That means there will be nine houses, more after the player arrives.
Nine houses with 3 shops, and a pub, is not a small village.
Most people in the era of which these industries would have occurred lived and worked in the same house.
Think of the NPC houses like trees; only far more rare. Most of the time there would be just one house out in the land somewhere, on rare occasion there would be more than one house that would spawn together. Finding a house would actually be more rare than finding diamonds, since even diamonds spawn in groups of about 3 - 5. Houses would spawn in groups of like 1- 3, aka town.
Quote from muncher21 »
If a quest is just a trip into the mines to find a dungeon, why can't the player do that on their own? Why do you have to have the NPC's mention it.
NPCs mentioning it gives the game an atmosphere for one, and helps the player find those dungeons, rather than to just wander aimlessly until they stumble upon one.
Quote from muncher21 »
You say you can't balance your own idea. I can't tell from your OP how the trading system will work, so how can I know it's balanced? maybe if you actually wrote out how things would work, instead of saying "Oh there should be trading" I would be able to better understand what your saying.
Try to ask each question only once in a post.
Quote from muncher21 »
I'm not going to balance your idea for you. It's your idea you fix it. Your spawn device is too easy to get. Fix it on your own. You obviously don't want my help so why ask for it?
I don't think you are familiar enough with an online economic system. Until the system is put into place there is no way of balancing it. Too much would go into the design of the economic system to cover in a forum post, and would need to be constantly modified after being put into practice. How Notch decides to figure out how much the NPC creates of any item, how Notch decides to gauge the relative worth of those items, is really up to Notch. If you want an example, i would say to define the relative value of an item as a ratio of: Sum total of rarities of materials needed to create said item divided by the quantity of same materials in the surrounding area.
For an iron pick you need 3 iron and .15 wood, so you figure up the global rarity of 3 iron and .15 a wood, then divide it by the actual rarity in the area; giving you a base value, then you would have to do the same thing for the item you intend to trade to get it's base value. The difference between the two would give you the relative value, from which you could derive how many whatevers you needed to buy the somethingorother you wished to purchase. This method would be dynamic, and vary from NPC to NPC, lest they were Siamese twins and shared the same block.
Quote from muncher21 »
Ok, I'm going to do a complete run down of skills and why they suck.
yes, and being an ass will certainly help your argument.
Quote from muncher21 »
TO start this, you need to understand how skill systems work.
You're the one having trouble, not me.
Quote from muncher21 »
Skill systems work on a theory called "skinner box theory" This theory was develops by Fredrick Skinner. His experiment was, put a pigeon in a box with a button. Every-time the pigeon pecked the button, the pigeon got food. This was ground breaking because it proved the pigeon made the connection between the button and the food, and that the pidgeon would Preform an action based on this connection.
Changing what choices a person or animal makes is called Operant conditioning.
That's the important part.
You see, skill levels use the same theory. They tell the player, "hey we'll give you a reward for doing this X amount of times" It may not be required, but the player will do it for the reward. The pigeon might not need the food to live, but the pigeon did it because the food tasted good. If doing something multiple times will make the player better in the game, Players will do it constantly and repetitively Even if it's not required. It still makes the player better, so they will continue to grind away at the level, even if they don't have too.
People will always grind levels even if it's not required. They will. That is a fact.
If You did'nt get this, Here is a place where it is better explained so maybe it will penetrate.
I've read the skill section thousands of times, and I still say it will bring about grinding.
That's your point? People shouldn't be allowed to do what they want?
If some poor sucker wants to spend 300 iron making 100 picks so that they can save one or two as a reward for their grinding, why not let them?
Some people grind because that's what they want to do, I'm against forcing them to grind in order to play, and that's why it was not suggested, but you are saying they shouldn't be allowed to grind if they want to. Why not?
If that is how THEY want to spend THEIR time playing the game, why do YOU care?
Do you profess to know better than them what they want to do with their time and since you see no point in it you will forbid them from being able to do something they would enjoy? There's that self-righteous attitude of yours again. Your opinion is not the only one that matters.
Quote from muncher21 »
You say I brought my buddies in to help argue my points. Actually, most of those people have had Ideas I have disliked, but they still thought your ideas were stupid.
There you go acting as if your opinion is that of a group, your opinion is only your opinion, that's it, YOURS. There is no "they" muncher, it's only you.
Quote from muncher21 »
You say you want to allow people to contribute, but every-time someone has given you something to fix or change you just tell them to read the OP again. It seems to me you just want people to praise your idea and not change any of it. You have offered less compromise then anyone else here.
No one has offered any compromise, they come in, say "no skills, no quests, no npcs", that's not compromise, that's dictation. They don't even offer reasoning, they just say no. That's not contribution.
Quote from muncher21 »
Now you'll probably tell me i did'nt read the OP enough or just cry "troll" some more.
cry moar
Quote from muncher21 »
And for someone who says people say stuff with out reading, you obviously did'nt read the threads I gave you, because not one of them rewrote anything for me. They showed me how the idea would work and told me how they would blance things. You would have seen that if you had read. But you did'nt.
I'm not in their thread attempting to argue against their ideas.
Alright I'm done. Can't argue with someone who is to busy trying to grade you posts like an essay and doesn't want to even think about your points, then acts like a condescending ****.
OP has an overinflated ego, thinks he's always right, and has the mentality of a 7 years old. Also maybe if were misinterpreting your post, you did something wrong when typing it.
He tells you how you should act, then does ex-actually what he told you not to do.
OP said it came up with this idea in a dream, and that's all it will ever be, a impossible to code, useless, unwanted dream.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
I heard this idea compared to Runescape a few times. I happen to like Runescape. I don't play it anymore primarily because I reached a point in the game where there was nothing left to do, nothing that wasn't boring anyway.
I did tons and tons of grinding and it never bothered me one bit, I enjoyed every minute of it because there were always many many objectives to meet along the way. It wasn't untill I reached all of my objectives that the game got boring.
Minecraft has the potential for practically unlimited replayability. But right now it is only potentially so. I have been playing it for a long time now and sorry to say but vanilla Minecraft just bores me to death now. Both Classic and Survival. If it weren't for mods I wouldn't even be here right now. And I think Tigax hit the nail on the head with this one:
At present this game.. isn't a game, it's creation mode without the free stuff; honestly the "game" is rather pointless in that all you do in the game is so that you can draw. The game is pretty much 3d paint. And some people... want the game to stay a paint program..
....
Maybe you guys want this game to die before it even gets out of beta, but I'd like to see Notch a very rich person; and the staff at World of Warcraft whining about how he's stealing all of their business.
....
@ Eat911 - World of Warcraft is wildly successful, and beyond that, Minecraft would be randomly generated, something that WoW can't do, the skills in WoW dictate the actions you can take (not so in this thread), the skills are quite extra curricular and don't limit anyone from doing anything, rather they just let you do what you normally do better.
....
In most games the grind is a necessary evil that one must bore themselves with in order to progress through the game, in my example you would just play normally, and eventually you would get a bonus. No skill requirements. No grind needed. And for those who want to grind.. let them.
There are many mods which get accused of breaking the game balance. For example I am sure some do not use the more arrows mod because they think it gives the player too much power. Or 'fly' and other commands because they are too powerful. Or the hook-shot or grappling hook. Or the underwater breathing apparatus. Or the extended reach and megafist mods. But what if one or more of these types of powerful abilities werent just handed to the player but were rewarded for developing which ever skill or character attributes might apply to it?
Which reminds me, one thing I've always enjoyed is creating characters in RPGs, choosing what skills they specialize in, trying to get just the right trade off in basic innate abilties like strength, dexterity, intelligence, charisma, constitution or whatever. You always had to plan ahead from the start or you'd basically screw yourself out of something you might want later. That adds more complexity and strategy to the game and makes it far more interesting and also adds to the replayability because you can try a different character build each time you start over.
bye muncher
It's cute how you cried as you left though, gonna turn everyone against me are you? lol
This is not a popularity contest, it's a forum, a place to exchange ideas.
Which is why you failed; you never made an attempt to exchange ideas.
You just attempted to force your opinions on me.
Won't work.
bye muncher
It's cute how you cried as you left though, gonna turn everyone against me are you? lol
This is not a popularity contest, it's a forum, a place to exchange ideas.
Which is why you failed; you never made an attempt to exchange ideas.
You just attempted to force your opinions on me.
Won't work.
Yea it won't because you, can't counter argue, you just say I did'nt read the op. All of my arguments were based on what I got out of the OP, maybe you should rephrase it so people actually understand what you're trying to say. Your ideas are all very vague at the most. It's very easy to "defend" a idea when what the idea is is not nailed down. You can turn your very vague OP into anything you want.
Like your trading system.
You never said what you could trade or how it would work.
Maybe do that and maybe you'll actually get your point across.
And I told you what I thought of your "ideas" and you just cried about it.
The suggestion board is a place where people give ideas and other judge them. Your one of those people that can't stand being judged by anyone that isn't telling you how perfect and amazing you idea is.
And it's not just me. Everyone that did'nt like your idea and gave you reasons, you just said re read the OP. Or tried to force your opinion of what minecraft should be on them. So, I think your just a hypocrite with a inflated ego.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
OP can u please explain y this shouldnt just be implemented into adventure mode.i honestly want to know
sound pretty good by the way, just not in survival mode
i may sound noobish, but what/who is OP?
i thought it meant Opening Post, like the first one on the thread
btw, tigax, your idea is great but you might want to elaborate your methods just a tiny bit.
it sounds a bit hard to integrate into the game right now
Original Poster, or Original Post depending on the context.
Tigax, the scalemail is a great concept, but they do need elaboration. The skill system would be great in my opinion, ( I don't see why it wouldn't be good. Run and jump lots = faster running, longer jumping? Digging lots = faster digging?) but I think where skills would really shine is a gamemode that allows the player to control a group of NPCs that level up their skills, eventually leading to splits in the power structure and/or migrants (think Dwarf Fortress!) I also think blacksmith should be broken up into Weaponsmith and Metalcrafter ( Weaponsmith makes tools/weapons; Metalcrafter makes ornamental things if Mojang decides to add them. ) Thank you for your wonderful idea and thank you for posting!
PS: You should really make this thread into a poll (Mods, I'm talking to you!)
-Martyr
EDIT: Also, on the trading system, It would be excellent if Mojang added races other than Humans. Such as Elves, Ogres, Dwarves, Munchkins, or Trolls! Caravans come via land or boat ( depending on the location of a trading post, and/or market ) every 20 day/night cycles or so. Trading would be done much like in DF ( Goods for Sale would be placed in the Trading Box/Post via taking the from your inventory and placing them in a grid much like a chest. On the left would be the "Sale:" side, and on the right would be the buy side, where items from regions virgin to players can be found, and dragged into the player's inventory. The price would be shown in the bottom right, and the amount of money gained from the sale would be in the bottom left. The total would be in the centre. The transaction could occur only if the merchant was in the black. Et cetera)
I like your ideas, just need to reword a few things, 'quest' would be better described as a 'hidden lairs', maybe with a boss monster?
As for ‘skills’, this implies that there are bonuses or unlockables, ‘proficiency’ would be closer. If the resource returns where dropped and there was only a speed and durability increase, with no way to see ‘experience or level’ in the game, to stop people actively grinding.
Adding a post to say this is NOT FOR SURVIVAL MODE, would clear some misunderstandings.
As for the spawn mover, I suggest 4 diamond blocks on the corners, 4 gold blocks, and Redstone dust in the middle.
= gold block
= Redstone
EDIT:
It would be better to say village or settlement, town i'm sure implies there are more then 5 people.
This whole thing is turning into an argument that wont end. I love all of these ideas. BUT. I must agree, skills are taking it a bit too far. I didn't read page 2 or this page due to the fact arguments are not entertaining in the least. I actually read your post saying you were sort of asking us to make houses out of the side icons, but that would take years fo me. I decided to actually MAKE the houses. YAY!!! Then take screenies and post them somewhere. yay.
Basic house:
Blacksmith:
Sorry about them being so small, If anyone knows how I can make them bigger please tell.
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Quote from DarkerFalz »
"A paragraph should be like a skirt: long enough to cover the content, but short enough to keep it interesting."
I do like this...although I think some of the skills are overpowered, namely the farming and weapons skill. Being able to do 200% damage is WAY to much IMHO, maybe around 125% damage. Farming is a pain in minecraft, and being able to get 4x the normal amount is too much. I believe that occasionally getting double the normal amount is enough.
Oh wow. Check out this one! If a modder can do something like this just imagine what Mojang could do if they chose to!? Minecraft Minecolony
And found this cool ass mod that makes it possible to form a mob posse! One of the videos shows an awesome battle with the player using his dominion staff to 'charm' skeletons to fight on his side against the other mobs. And the player is using a another mod that also gives skeletons elemental arrows - lol! He also demonstrates the usefulness of the grappling hook mod with the 'fixed' setting on so he can soar above the battlefield and basically play like in a god game [like populous] commanding his troops and watching the chaos unfold from the sky. Looks fun. Minecraft Pets
Here is link to the builders mod I was referring to earlier for another example of how so much more is possible in minecraft - and not only is it not impossible or too difficult for Mojang to do, modders are already doing it! Builders
Another mod adds human mobs to your game - check it out! People mod
I want to combine all these mods, plus mo-creatures mod, and then a bunch of my own additions from actually playing it myself but with an eye towards preparing the way for others to play the world save or adventure map as some are calling them. Some examples of ones you can dl and play right now... Survival Craft, Awesome Indiana Jones type map!
Oh yeah and there is also already an adventure mode for Minecraft thanks to this mod here: Adventurecraft
EDIT: Hey Everybody [not as in everyone - lol] I just read that thread about the nether from your sig. I agree the Nether is currently pretty useless and boring, definitely not worth the effort of collecting obsidian and the trouble of trying to figure out how to setup your portals properly to be of any use. The ideas in that thread are great. Did you ever read that thread about the Aether? It is like the complete opposite of the Nether in every way. It sounded pretty cool.
OP can u please explain y this shouldnt just be implemented into adventure mode.i honestly want to know
sound pretty good by the way, just not in survival mode
Quote from Tigax »
Survival mode should be about survival, creation mode is a sandbox. Right now survival mode and creation mode have very little difference, which I am attempting to remedy with this post. Remedy because it's a problem. Right now we have.. creation mode, or creation mode.
Quote from Joshman1306 »
i may sound noobish, but what/who is OP?
i thought it meant Opening Post, like the first one on the thread
btw, tigax, your idea is great but you might want to elaborate your methods just a tiny bit.
it sounds a bit hard to integrate into the game right now
Thank you Marty_R for the assist.
Joshman1306 please specify which methods you wish to discuss and I will be happy to explain, or render my best guess as to what would be a good course of action.
There is a lot in the post, and there is a lot to implement, but it can be done. Which ever portion Notch and his dev team decided to put in first would be up to them; I'd personally start with the armor and work my way down the list in order.
Quote from Marty_R »
Tigax, the scalemail is a great concept, but they do need elaboration.
Not sure what you mean. All the armor pieces would be created as they are now, just with the created materials. Instead of using you would use scales; which you make from iron like in the example. So, you'd put a "scale" in every spot that you would have put a piece of iron to make a chest plate for example, and that would make scalemail. Same with shoes, and pants.
Quote from Marty_R »
The skill system would be great in my opinion, ( I don't see why it wouldn't be good. Run and jump lots = faster running, longer jumping? Digging lots = faster digging?) but I think where skills would really shine is a gamemode that allows the player to control a group of NPCs that level up their skills, eventually leading to splits in the power structure and/or migrants (think Dwarf Fortress!) I also think blacksmith should be broken up into Weaponsmith and Metalcrafter ( Weaponsmith makes tools/weapons; Metalcrafter makes ornamental things if Mojang decides to add them. ) Thank you for your wonderful idea and thank you for posting!
All very nice ideas, except I personally would rather keep it all in survival mode, not saying *whiney* NO!, just saying that would be my preference. At this point I'm just interested in getting the ground work in, as in having NPCs at all, I loved all of Dixie's ideas, and yours closely resemble her's. Nice addition to the skills btw.
Quote from Marty_R »
PS: You should really make this thread into a poll (Mods, I'm talking to you!)
-Martyr
I chose not to make it a poll, because i knew that too many people would come in and hit no as soon as they saw the word "quests" "skills" or "NPCs" and would never bother to read any of it. The majority of the beginning of this thread dealt with that very problem and a flame war ensued.
Quote from Marty_R »
EDIT: Also, on the trading system, It would be excellent if Mojang added races other than Humans. Such as Elves, Ogres, Dwarves, Munchkins, or Trolls! Caravans come via land or boat ( depending on the location of a trading post, and/or market ) every 20 day/night cycles or so. Trading would be done much like in DF ( Goods for Sale would be placed in the Trading Box/Post via taking the from your inventory and placing them in a grid much like a chest. On the left would be the "Sale:" side, and on the right would be the buy side, where items from regions virgin to players can be found, and dragged into the player's inventory. The price would be shown in the bottom right, and the amount of money gained from the sale would be in the bottom left. The total would be in the centre. The transaction could occur only if the merchant was in the black. Et cetera)
I'm certainly not against having a randomly created living world. So long as it is always randomly generated when you open an empty slot. And as long as anything added does not take away what we can already do; I would always like to be able to take blocks from one spot and place them in my own castle. Even the NPC towns I suggested was intended for the player to be able to kill the NPC, take their goods, dismantle the house and mine the area if they so chose.
Quote from ArrogantLobster »
minecraft is a SandBox NOT an RPG I only like the spawn idea.
please refer to my quoted text above. Thanks for stopping by, and remember, there will always be a creative mode for people like you; afaik.
Quote from Rapidtortilla »
Obviously someone can't take criticism, good luck in the real world
When I get there, I'll tell you how it goes.
Quote from raizor »
I like your ideas, just need to reword a few things, 'quest' would be better described as a 'hidden lairs', maybe with a boss monster?
I had suggested that an NPC could relate a general direction to a player regarding the location of a "hidden lair", if the player then set out to find it, they would effectively be embarking on a quest to find it. That is where the word "quest" came from. Unfortunately many people have prejudices about the word "quest" and assume it means what they've encountered in most other RPGs which actually are more "missions" than "quests".
Quote from raizor »
As for ‘skills’, this implies that there are bonuses or unlockables, ‘proficiency’ would be closer. If the resource returns where dropped and there was only a speed and durability increase, with no way to see ‘experience or level’ in the game, to stop people actively grinding.
I intentionally left out any mention of a visual indication of experience level.
as for grinding..
Quote from Tigax »
If some poor sucker wants to spend 300 iron making 100 picks so that they can save one or two as a reward for their grinding, why not let them?
Some people grind because that's what they want to do, I'm against forcing them to grind in order to play, and that's why it was not suggested, but [if] you are saying they shouldn't be allowed to grind if they want to. Why not?
Quote from raizor »
Adding a post to say this is NOT FOR SURVIVAL MODE, would clear some misunderstandings.
This is intended for survival mode. Right now survival mode only really differs from creative mode because you have to obtain the blocks in order to draw.
Quote from raizor »
As for the spawn mover, I suggest 4 diamond blocks on the corners, 4 gold blocks, and Redstone dust in the middle.
= gold block
= Redstone
I'm not at all against this.
Quote from raizor »
EDIT:
It would be better to say village or settlement, town i'm sure implies there are more then 5 people.
I don't think it matters what we call it, the misinterpretation will persist. And only a maximum of three houses would ever be found together.
Thank you for your constructive input, for voicing your concerns and for taking the time to post. I will add any changes as a result into the OP, with the hopes that this thread can evolve and progress into something everyone will want.
If I had the ability I would delete the flame war, but the MODs seem pretty dead set against allowing the thread creators any sort of power over their thread.
Quote from happyworm360 »
This whole thing is turning into an argument that wont end.
Indeed, but I have a plan to bypass the bs which will be reflected in the OP, ASAP.
Quote from happyworm360 »
I love all of these ideas. BUT. I must agree, skills are taking it a bit too far.
Too overpowered? or just too much? You'll notice that nearly every single RPG game (which this is) has some sort of skill system, this is because people want skills, people like skills, and many people are willing to pay money to work those skills. Skills aren't an oops that just happen to be in every game. There are marketing reasons for them, people get paid a lot of money to figure out what the public wants in a video game, and they all agree.. skills is something they want. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in the most popular and successful games that have billions of dollars at their fingertips to pay for people to take them out, put them in, and do marketing research about it all.
Quote from happyworm360 »
I didn't read page 2 or this page due to the fact arguments are not entertaining in the least. I actually read your post saying you were sort of asking us to make houses out of the side icons, but that would take years fo me. I decided to actually MAKE the houses. YAY!!! Then take screenies and post them somewhere. yay.
THAT is a fantastic idea. It even gives the people a reason to play the game, build a house, and submit their creations. Beautiful! I could hug your neck, thank you.
Quote from happyworm360 »
Basic house:
Blacksmith:
Sorry about them being so small, If anyone knows how I can make them bigger please tell.
If i knew how to make them bigger, I would tell you; sorry.
Quote from Everybody0523 »
I do like this...although I think some of the skills are overpowered, namely the farming and weapons skill. Being able to do 200% damage is WAY to much IMHO, maybe around 125% damage.
I don't disagree and will change the text.
Quote from Everybody0523 »
Farming is a pain in minecraft, and being able to get 4x the normal amount is too much. I believe that occasionally getting double the normal amount is enough.
Or maybe an extra seed and wheat (which would be double the wheat but you wouldn't get a crap load of seeds, as you would if we just doubled the whole take.)
Good job, and thank you for the input.
A thank you to all whom responded and exchanged ideas instead of insults.
as in the example you would still need 6 planks to make the door, but when you pulled it off the workbench, a couple planks could also spawn, effectively resulting in only 4 planks having been needed (if you spawned 2 planks when you pulled the door off the workbench.) This would require much less code and no need to change what's already there, just add to it a routine that checked your skill level when you pulled the door off, if you randomed high enough, you'd spawn bonus wood.
You actually contradicted yourself. You said i didn't explain how it would work, then went on to explain what i explained.
There you go, except you are trying to add to what I've said, no one but you made mention of diamonds.
A woodcutter does not need wood, and would have a lot of it, as a woodcutter would need iron or stone, you could trade these things for wood, which he would have, since he's a woodcutter.
A mason would have a lot of stone, and you could trade her wood and iron for stone, since she would need wood and iron to get stone, and would have a lot of stone, since she is in fact, a mason.
Same with blacksmith. I'm not sure how this was confusing, but if you still require explanation, I can attempt to yet again explain in different words what was written in the original post.
should read, "My concern with towns"
Please note, in the original post, that i stated that i was unfamiliar with the size of chunks, and if 20 chunks was not far enough away that the number of chunks should be doubled, or even tripled. So that a person could play the game, as it is now without Having to go into civilization, but not so far that the players would never encounter it.
This is your opinion, and yours alone. You do not declare or define what "belongs" in minecraft. You have only your opinion, it is not the end all authority on the matter, it is not better than anyone else's. It is simply YOUR opinion. This is a perfect example of the self-righteous attitude i was talking about. I trust by now you have looked it up. Don't use wikipedia, lol, search "Define: Self-Righteous" in google, you will get many versions and sources for the definition of the word.
You don't think very highly of Notch do you? The fact that you even heard the word biome shows that it has been done, and in fact it has.. though with a few bugs. You will notice in Minecraft that some areas are wooded, some are sandy beaches, some are just deserts, these are all biomes.. The nether is another example, you're telling me he can't code what he's already coded?
You're reaching for justifications citing your own imagination as a source.
Map traps already occur, though by accident, have you ever hung a torch on a gravel wall, just to watch the whole ceiling cave in? Map trap. I don't recall anything about avalanches, but they would work same as this. Many people have already built ships, a shipwreck would need only slight modification, and relocation. The flying mobs are already being created by Modders, just the other day i saw someone riding a flying horse. Volcanoes and mountains are already in the works, according to "what Notch has actually said".
I'm guessing that the "linking of NPCs" you are referring to references the "Quests" section. And while i didn't explain in great detail how that will work, i can do so now.
When the NPC was triggered to relay a rumor, or quest as i called it, be it through conversation or by idle chatter near the player, they would query the server for landmarks in the area around them (for example up to 10 chunks away now that i know how big a chunk is) if there were any landmarks (as a result of a dungeon being in the area, remember the quests section where it stated that dungeons would begin with a treasure or boss being spawned, then a cave growing outward from that point, populated with mobs of that bosses type, their structures etc. then ending the dungeon spawn with a landmark on the surface.) Once the server told the NPCs query that there was a landmark, that NPC would trigger the voice acting, or subtitles, that spoke of that landmark.
Most people in the era of which these industries would have occurred lived and worked in the same house.
Think of the NPC houses like trees; only far more rare. Most of the time there would be just one house out in the land somewhere, on rare occasion there would be more than one house that would spawn together. Finding a house would actually be more rare than finding diamonds, since even diamonds spawn in groups of about 3 - 5. Houses would spawn in groups of like 1- 3, aka town.
NPCs mentioning it gives the game an atmosphere for one, and helps the player find those dungeons, rather than to just wander aimlessly until they stumble upon one.
Try to ask each question only once in a post.
I don't think you are familiar enough with an online economic system. Until the system is put into place there is no way of balancing it. Too much would go into the design of the economic system to cover in a forum post, and would need to be constantly modified after being put into practice. How Notch decides to figure out how much the NPC creates of any item, how Notch decides to gauge the relative worth of those items, is really up to Notch. If you want an example, i would say to define the relative value of an item as a ratio of: Sum total of rarities of materials needed to create said item divided by the quantity of same materials in the surrounding area.
For an iron pick you need 3 iron and .15 wood, so you figure up the global rarity of 3 iron and .15 a wood, then divide it by the actual rarity in the area; giving you a base value, then you would have to do the same thing for the item you intend to trade to get it's base value. The difference between the two would give you the relative value, from which you could derive how many whatevers you needed to buy the somethingorother you wished to purchase. This method would be dynamic, and vary from NPC to NPC, lest they were Siamese twins and shared the same block.
yes, and being an ass will certainly help your argument.
You're the one having trouble, not me.
That's your point? People shouldn't be allowed to do what they want?
If some poor sucker wants to spend 300 iron making 100 picks so that they can save one or two as a reward for their grinding, why not let them?
Some people grind because that's what they want to do, I'm against forcing them to grind in order to play, and that's why it was not suggested, but you are saying they shouldn't be allowed to grind if they want to. Why not?
If that is how THEY want to spend THEIR time playing the game, why do YOU care?
Do you profess to know better than them what they want to do with their time and since you see no point in it you will forbid them from being able to do something they would enjoy? There's that self-righteous attitude of yours again. Your opinion is not the only one that matters.
There you go acting as if your opinion is that of a group, your opinion is only your opinion, that's it, YOURS. There is no "they" muncher, it's only you.
No one has offered any compromise, they come in, say "no skills, no quests, no npcs", that's not compromise, that's dictation. They don't even offer reasoning, they just say no. That's not contribution.
cry moar
I'm not in their thread attempting to argue against their ideas.
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsOP has an overinflated ego, thinks he's always right, and has the mentality of a 7 years old. Also maybe if were misinterpreting your post, you did something wrong when typing it.
He tells you how you should act, then does ex-actually what he told you not to do.
OP said it came up with this idea in a dream, and that's all it will ever be, a impossible to code, useless, unwanted dream.
I did tons and tons of grinding and it never bothered me one bit, I enjoyed every minute of it because there were always many many objectives to meet along the way. It wasn't untill I reached all of my objectives that the game got boring.
Minecraft has the potential for practically unlimited replayability. But right now it is only potentially so. I have been playing it for a long time now and sorry to say but vanilla Minecraft just bores me to death now. Both Classic and Survival. If it weren't for mods I wouldn't even be here right now. And I think Tigax hit the nail on the head with this one:
There are many mods which get accused of breaking the game balance. For example I am sure some do not use the more arrows mod because they think it gives the player too much power. Or 'fly' and other commands because they are too powerful. Or the hook-shot or grappling hook. Or the underwater breathing apparatus. Or the extended reach and megafist mods. But what if one or more of these types of powerful abilities werent just handed to the player but were rewarded for developing which ever skill or character attributes might apply to it?
Which reminds me, one thing I've always enjoyed is creating characters in RPGs, choosing what skills they specialize in, trying to get just the right trade off in basic innate abilties like strength, dexterity, intelligence, charisma, constitution or whatever. You always had to plan ahead from the start or you'd basically screw yourself out of something you might want later. That adds more complexity and strategy to the game and makes it far more interesting and also adds to the replayability because you can try a different character build each time you start over.
minebook.me (Facebook for Minecraft)
It's cute how you cried as you left though, gonna turn everyone against me are you? lol
This is not a popularity contest, it's a forum, a place to exchange ideas.
Which is why you failed; you never made an attempt to exchange ideas.
You just attempted to force your opinions on me.
Won't work.
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsYea it won't because you, can't counter argue, you just say I did'nt read the op. All of my arguments were based on what I got out of the OP, maybe you should rephrase it so people actually understand what you're trying to say. Your ideas are all very vague at the most. It's very easy to "defend" a idea when what the idea is is not nailed down. You can turn your very vague OP into anything you want.
Like your trading system.
You never said what you could trade or how it would work.
Maybe do that and maybe you'll actually get your point across.
And I told you what I thought of your "ideas" and you just cried about it.
The suggestion board is a place where people give ideas and other judge them. Your one of those people that can't stand being judged by anyone that isn't telling you how perfect and amazing you idea is.
And it's not just me. Everyone that did'nt like your idea and gave you reasons, you just said re read the OP. Or tried to force your opinion of what minecraft should be on them. So, I think your just a hypocrite with a inflated ego.
sound pretty good by the way, just not in survival mode
i thought it meant Opening Post, like the first one on the thread
btw, tigax, your idea is great but you might want to elaborate your methods just a tiny bit.
it sounds a bit hard to integrate into the game right now
Original Poster, or Original Post depending on the context.
Tigax, the scalemail is a great concept, but they do need elaboration. The skill system would be great in my opinion, ( I don't see why it wouldn't be good. Run and jump lots = faster running, longer jumping? Digging lots = faster digging?) but I think where skills would really shine is a gamemode that allows the player to control a group of NPCs that level up their skills, eventually leading to splits in the power structure and/or migrants (think Dwarf Fortress!) I also think blacksmith should be broken up into Weaponsmith and Metalcrafter ( Weaponsmith makes tools/weapons; Metalcrafter makes ornamental things if Mojang decides to add them. ) Thank you for your wonderful idea and thank you for posting!
PS: You should really make this thread into a poll (Mods, I'm talking to you!)
-Martyr
EDIT: Also, on the trading system, It would be excellent if Mojang added races other than Humans. Such as Elves, Ogres, Dwarves, Munchkins, or Trolls! Caravans come via land or boat ( depending on the location of a trading post, and/or market ) every 20 day/night cycles or so. Trading would be done much like in DF ( Goods for Sale would be placed in the Trading Box/Post via taking the from your inventory and placing them in a grid much like a chest. On the left would be the "Sale:" side, and on the right would be the buy side, where items from regions virgin to players can be found, and dragged into the player's inventory. The price would be shown in the bottom right, and the amount of money gained from the sale would be in the bottom left. The total would be in the centre. The transaction could occur only if the merchant was in the black. Et cetera)
As for ‘skills’, this implies that there are bonuses or unlockables, ‘proficiency’ would be closer. If the resource returns where dropped and there was only a speed and durability increase, with no way to see ‘experience or level’ in the game, to stop people actively grinding.
Adding a post to say this is NOT FOR SURVIVAL MODE, would clear some misunderstandings.
As for the spawn mover, I suggest 4 diamond blocks on the corners, 4 gold blocks, and Redstone dust in the middle.
= gold block
= Redstone
EDIT:
It would be better to say village or settlement, town i'm sure implies there are more then 5 people.
Basic house:
Blacksmith:
Sorry about them being so small, If anyone knows how I can make them bigger please tell.
Minecraft Minecolony
And found this cool ass mod that makes it possible to form a mob posse! One of the videos shows an awesome battle with the player using his dominion staff to 'charm' skeletons to fight on his side against the other mobs. And the player is using a another mod that also gives skeletons elemental arrows - lol! He also demonstrates the usefulness of the grappling hook mod with the 'fixed' setting on so he can soar above the battlefield and basically play like in a god game [like populous] commanding his troops and watching the chaos unfold from the sky. Looks fun.
Minecraft Pets
Here is link to the builders mod I was referring to earlier for another example of how so much more is possible in minecraft - and not only is it not impossible or too difficult for Mojang to do, modders are already doing it!
Builders
Another mod adds human mobs to your game - check it out!
People mod
I want to combine all these mods, plus mo-creatures mod, and then a bunch of my own additions from actually playing it myself but with an eye towards preparing the way for others to play the world save or adventure map as some are calling them. Some examples of ones you can dl and play right now...
Survival Craft, Awesome Indiana Jones type map!
[ADVENTURE] Prof. Grizwald and the Curse of the Pyramid
[Map] Four Towers (Full Addition) Adventure/Dungeon
EDIT: Found another one - with its own texture pack - looks cool.
[Map] Halls of Thorn (Dungeon Crawl) Beta 1.1_02
Oh yeah and there is also already an adventure mode for Minecraft thanks to this mod here:
Adventurecraft
EDIT: Hey Everybody [not as in everyone - lol] I just read that thread about the nether from your sig. I agree the Nether is currently pretty useless and boring, definitely not worth the effort of collecting obsidian and the trouble of trying to figure out how to setup your portals properly to be of any use. The ideas in that thread are great. Did you ever read that thread about the Aether? It is like the complete opposite of the Nether in every way. It sounded pretty cool.
The Aether (Anti-Nether Realm)
minebook.me (Facebook for Minecraft)
Muncher21Thank you Marty_R for the assist.
Joshman1306 please specify which methods you wish to discuss and I will be happy to explain, or render my best guess as to what would be a good course of action.
There is a lot in the post, and there is a lot to implement, but it can be done. Which ever portion Notch and his dev team decided to put in first would be up to them; I'd personally start with the armor and work my way down the list in order.
Not sure what you mean. All the armor pieces would be created as they are now, just with the created materials. Instead of using you would use scales; which you make from iron like in the example. So, you'd put a "scale" in every spot that you would have put a piece of iron to make a chest plate for example, and that would make scalemail. Same with shoes, and pants.
All very nice ideas, except I personally would rather keep it all in survival mode, not saying *whiney* NO!, just saying that would be my preference. At this point I'm just interested in getting the ground work in, as in having NPCs at all, I loved all of Dixie's ideas, and yours closely resemble her's. Nice addition to the skills btw.
I chose not to make it a poll, because i knew that too many people would come in and hit no as soon as they saw the word "quests" "skills" or "NPCs" and would never bother to read any of it. The majority of the beginning of this thread dealt with that very problem and a flame war ensued.
I'm certainly not against having a randomly created living world. So long as it is always randomly generated when you open an empty slot. And as long as anything added does not take away what we can already do; I would always like to be able to take blocks from one spot and place them in my own castle. Even the NPC towns I suggested was intended for the player to be able to kill the NPC, take their goods, dismantle the house and mine the area if they so chose.
please refer to my quoted text above. Thanks for stopping by, and remember, there will always be a creative mode for people like you; afaik.
When I get there, I'll tell you how it goes.
I had suggested that an NPC could relate a general direction to a player regarding the location of a "hidden lair", if the player then set out to find it, they would effectively be embarking on a quest to find it. That is where the word "quest" came from. Unfortunately many people have prejudices about the word "quest" and assume it means what they've encountered in most other RPGs which actually are more "missions" than "quests".
I intentionally left out any mention of a visual indication of experience level.
as for grinding..
This is intended for survival mode. Right now survival mode only really differs from creative mode because you have to obtain the blocks in order to draw.
I'm not at all against this.
I don't think it matters what we call it, the misinterpretation will persist. And only a maximum of three houses would ever be found together.
Thank you for your constructive input, for voicing your concerns and for taking the time to post. I will add any changes as a result into the OP, with the hopes that this thread can evolve and progress into something everyone will want.
If I had the ability I would delete the flame war, but the MODs seem pretty dead set against allowing the thread creators any sort of power over their thread.
Indeed, but I have a plan to bypass the bs which will be reflected in the OP, ASAP.
Too overpowered? or just too much? You'll notice that nearly every single RPG game (which this is) has some sort of skill system, this is because people want skills, people like skills, and many people are willing to pay money to work those skills. Skills aren't an oops that just happen to be in every game. There are marketing reasons for them, people get paid a lot of money to figure out what the public wants in a video game, and they all agree.. skills is something they want. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in the most popular and successful games that have billions of dollars at their fingertips to pay for people to take them out, put them in, and do marketing research about it all.
THAT is a fantastic idea. It even gives the people a reason to play the game, build a house, and submit their creations. Beautiful! I could hug your neck, thank you.
If i knew how to make them bigger, I would tell you; sorry.
I don't disagree and will change the text.
Or maybe an extra seed and wheat (which would be double the wheat but you wouldn't get a crap load of seeds, as you would if we just doubled the whole take.)
Good job, and thank you for the input.
A thank you to all whom responded and exchanged ideas instead of insults.
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsPatch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veins