Doing something repetitively in real life doesn't make you better at it.
Possibly THE most stupidest thing ever said so far.
Ever heard of 'practice makes perfect'?
What about reading, writing, kicking a ball, completing a puzzle or even playing minecraft?
You have to do it 100 times to get any better. Go read my earlier post about not playing if you don't want to.
Doing something repetitively in real life doesn't make you better at it.
Possibly THE most stupidest thing ever said so far.
Ever heard of 'practice makes perfect'?
What about reading, writing, kicking a ball, completing a puzzle or even playing minecraft?
You have to do it 100 times to get any better. Go read my earlier post about not playing if you don't want to.
I did.
Then I read the OP's post how this WASN'T meant for adventure mode or any new mode, like you said it was.
Whoops!
And practice doesn't make perfect if you a normal guy stranded in the middle of no where, making picks out of stone.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
And practice doesn't make perfect if you a normal guy stranded in the middle of no where, making picks out of stone.
The first time you start Minecraft you are pretty much a noob. The second time you start you become a little bit better. By the third time you know exactly what to do in nearly every situation. (Or at least I did)
Let's say you were going to expand Minecraft and noted everyone before the coding was written. (Like Notch does most of the time) If there was an equal enthusiasm for the new game mode as well as a cry to keep things the same, the only logical thing to do would be to go ahead and create the new mode but as a separate game part.
Eg. Download an update for the new game mode if you want or keep playing the original Minecraft (which will still have updates) Durp...
This would be INCREDIBLY difficult to implement, and deviates an INCREDIBLE distance from the direction the game is in.
Minecraft is meant to be a sandbox building game about surviving in world of blocks.
Not an RPG.
If you want all these things, go play Runescape or something.
The closest one may get in this game to NPC characters are Pigmen Villages. And that isn't even being worked on yet.
So... yeah.
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Quote from Ferus Grim »
I doubt Black Jesus riding a cloud to Earth, slapping the nerdrage in the face, would stop the nerdrage. Ever.
And practice doesn't make perfect if you a normal guy stranded in the middle of no where, making picks out of stone.
The first time you start Minecraft you are pretty much a noob. The second time you start you become a little bit better. By the third time you know exactly what to do in nearly every situation. (Or at least I did)
Let's say you were going to expand Minecraft and noted everyone before the coding was written. (Like Notch does most of the time) If there was an equal enthusiasm for the new game mode as well as a cry to keep things the same, the only logical thing to do would be to go ahead and create the new mode but as a separate game part.
Eg. Download an update for the new game mode if you want or keep playing the original Minecraft (which will still have updates) Durp...
If notch adds this as a separate game mode (ie. adventure mode) and continues updating survival, I'm fine with it. But as the OP stated, this is for survival, not adventure mode.
Also, your explanation of practice makes perfect is how games should work. The player gets better by their own experiences and they get better as a player, not by some dumb and arbitrary skill system.
So yes let the player practice with the game themselves and make themselves better players.
We don't need the skill system to do that for us.
Thanks for the extra argument against the skill system!
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Muncher, like most trolls, sizzle and burn when they are exposed.. much like zombies in the daylight.
He actually said ..
Quote from muncher21 »
The entire Idea IS ludicrous. Doing something repetitively in real life doesn't make you better at it. I couldn't make 20 paper airplanes, then suddenly gain the power to make better paper airplanes. I couldn't do that after making 100. Or any number of paper airplanes.
This is clearly a troll looking for vindication.
Oh and Muncher, the difference between when I use words you've never seen and when you use words you've never seen, is that I use them correctly in a sentence. You obviously thought up some word (inflammatory) you thought was big and attempted to use it in a sentence to make yourself sound smart, yet having used it incorrectly (or possibly just lied) only showed that you fail. Or perhaps you used wikipedia to look up the definition (lol)
Sadly you continuously attempt to lie about what's written in the post then ridicule what you've made up. (like saying you could trade dirt for iron, or that making 20 picks would max your level)
The long and short of it, Muncher, is that you are a fail troll, failing to troll, so go troll somewhere else, you're no longer welcome in my thread. No more of your posts will be read nor answered by me, since they lack any substantial or even remotely useful information. If you want to whine and cry and just yell "no" at everything, go back to the rest of the forums.
Quote from Demoburd »
This would be INCREDIBLY difficult to implement
Pretty obvious
Quote from Demoburd »
and deviates an INCREDIBLE distance from the direction the game is in.
Minecraft is meant to be a sandbox building game about surviving in world of blocks.
Not an RPG.
You may want to actually read some of the literature out there before coming in here spouting off what you think the game's future is. I'm js
Instead of trying to counter argue any of my points your just call troll.
How bout explaining how I'm wrong instead of Just saying "Oh your a fail troll"
and you using "big words" makes you look like a 14 year old with a thesaurus sitting next to them. This is esspecially glaring when you use words like "fail".
But now your just going to stick your fingers in your ears and block me out, Instead of trying to counter ANY of my arguments.
So you lose by forfeit.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Jesus, can't anyone take an opposing opinion without calling troll and starting a fight?
I agree completley with muncher- Skills would ruin Minecraft, plain and simple.
You say there's no grind required, which makes sense, but it's like telling a fat chick "you can get thinner by doing this, but you don't have to". She would obviously "do this" over and over to get thinner. She doesn't have to, but she gets a bonus and she'll do it for that. The grind for skills isn't 'necessary' per se, but it's mandatory if you want to be 'the best'. If you don't grind, you suck.
I've thought of NPCs before, and I'm certain they wouldn't be an improvment on the game unless in a different mode - survival mode is a sandbox, and role playing has no place in it. Adventure mode, this idea may have merit.
Skills, though... no.
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Quote from Dgc2002 »
Stop making topics complaining about people complaining about complaints.
i like this idea!!...i`d like ta have randomly generated houses,shops,maybe even little towns..randomly generated NPC`s that love you and hate you,guards,soldiers..the whole works!!!=)
Theres a mod for that. I'm going to try it out when it gets updated to latest version. From watching the videos though I can see how it could conflict with player agendas. But it appears to be very customizable. So we'll see. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=111753&hilit=builders
Quote from UchihaBalls »
I just read through the topic. And i must say.. Tigax you are a ****.
You just can't stand that everyone doesn't agree with you and that your idea isn't the greatest.
Just becouse someone doesn't agree with you he/she/it isn't a troll.
Pretty harsh considering all the completely unsympathetic feedback Tigax has gotten here especially from muncher who seems to be proud to be a "****" as you call it.
As one response to muncher put it:
While I do agree with you, I don't agree with how you are delivering the message. If you want people to agree with you, don't try to be a jackass. Because then, no one will listen to you.
To which muncher responded:
Sorry that's the way i do it. People should listen to me if I'm right not how I deliver the message. And this was mild compared to some of my other posts.
In spite of all the strong opinions against skills I still find Tigax's well written proposal persuasive. It is about as non-intrusive as a skills system can get. I would use it. Especially if it were customizable. Tigax's answers to the many criticisms did not strike me as dickish at all in comparison to the harsh and repetative criticisms.
Also, I've dealt with the entire "troll" thing before, and honestly, for you telling people not to flame your idea, the turning around and calling me a troll looks bad. troll (according to wikipedia)=someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community.
Eventually you must stop and ask yourself. "Why do I keep getting mistaken for a troll?" Perhaps it is because when you disagree with an idea posed in a thread dedicated to that idea you do not just state your well reasoned argument against it in one post and move on. You keep posting over and over again creating a hostile environment where those who do like the idea are persuaded to keep their mouths shut for fear of adding more fuel to the fiery debate you've created. Or for fear of being flamed by you and the mob you've attracted.
Do we really need to keep reading the same criticism over and over again? Try taking your own advice and stop 'grinding' your axe on this topic if you dont like it. I don't think this topic was created for you to level your debate skill on. I'm still watching this thread because I like the idea. Why are you still watching it?
I judge each suggestion under the same light. I don't make any biases or have any favorites. I judge each Idea equally. Yes i judge all of these harshly but, if we are'nt selective about which suggestions we put in the game, It will become over bloated and terrible. Most people, like the OP can't deal with knowing that their idea is bad. So they shut it out with by crying troll or just ignoring people that tell them their idea sucks.
The reason I get mistaken for a troll is people are whinny things that can't judge their own idea well.
Yes this is about as non-intrusive as skill systems can get, but even this is still a bad gameplay concept. It promotes grinding to much, and grinding is bad.
And I doubt I scare people. The amount of stupid ideas has done nothing but go up since I joined. The good topics need to be constantly bumped to be kept above the flood of sewage.
But that's beside the point.
You all seem to busy calling me a troll and none of you supporters have tried to disprove any of my arguments.
How about proving to me this idea is good instead of just trying to swat me away with lame insults like "fail troll is fail".
And you can prove to me an idea is good, the aether topic did it, so you can too. So don't say I'm my support is unattainable.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Instead of trying to counter argue any of my points your just call troll.
The few points you've attempted to make were destroyed by the original post. Beyond that you fabricated your own reality and expected me to argue on behalf of whatever you made up. If you want to argue with yourself, feel free, but do it somewhere else.
Quote from muncher21 »
How bout explaining how I'm wrong instead of Just saying "Oh your a fail troll"
You being wrong and you being a troll are two separate points of observation. I have repeatedly explained how you are wrong in your "ideas". You're a fail troll, because you attempted to troll, and failed. And here you are, yet again, mining more forum posts in my thread.
Quote from muncher21 »
and you using "big words" makes you look like a 14 year old with a thesaurus sitting next to them. This is esspecially glaring when you use words like "fail".
Do you even read what you write before hitting submit? honestly, I'd like to know.
Quote from muncher21 »
But now your just going to stick your fingers in your ears and block me out, Instead of trying to counter ANY of my arguments.
So you lose by forfeit.
You haven't made any arguments that I have not repeatedly countered and skunked you on. At this point, who are you trying to convince that you are right? Me or You?
Quote from UchihaBalls »
No NPC in survival mode. But inadventure mode.
I like the fact that you are lonely (as a human) in a strange world. I kinda see it like im ship-wrecked or someting. (:
And this would be changed how? You still start out in the middle of nothing, with nothing, around no one. Only if you venture out far enough, only if you choose to do so, will you have the possibility of finding any NPCs.
Quote from UchihaBalls »
No quests in survival mode. But in adventure mode.
Survival mode is meant to be a sandbox mode, were you make your own goals. If your goal is to find as much rare materials or if its to make an awesome house/fortress or if you like to conquer dungeons and stuff.
You must still be new to the game, and are still amazed by the thought of being able to move dirt from one place to another. Soon enough you will be playing and digging up stuff, then stop and go.. wtf, this isn't a game, what is there to do? Answer: Nothing. This is a massive 3d paint program, it's longevity comes to a screeching halt pretty fast. That's not to say i hate the game, i love it, and i love the potential it has. Many people, like muncher, wants the "game" to stay a 3d paint program forever, which is a death sentence for Minecraft. Either this game starts coming up with things to occupy the purchaser's time or it's going to get a bad name. It will become little more than novelty.
Quote from UchihaBalls »
No skills in survival mode. But MAYBE in adventure mode.
I don't see why you need to be better at making and mining things. I mean it's not that hard.
And pickaxes are reallt easy to make and you always have materials for it, so no need to increase durability.
And i really hate the idea that if you make much tools the tools will later cost less resources. I mean in late game you alreay has so much resources so you don't need to save recources. And it's in late game you will have much skill. Meaning it will be to easy to enjoy late game.
This was the essence of many of my rebuttals to the gripes against skills, actually. Many times over have I said that grinding a skill would be pointless, but some people hold firm to the idea that people will do it. Completely ignorant of the practicality, they insist that people will still grind, they insist that it will bring boredom to the game. Yet they refuse to see the fact that in order to grind, the person will have to use up and destroy huge amounts of resources; all to save a few at the end? The only thing I could image anyone would grind for is to save on diamonds, or iron, yet in order to reach a skill level required to actually save diamonds would cost so many diamonds that it wouldn't be worth it. The skill bonus would be just that, a happy bonus. Acknowledging this fact renders the opposition's argument moot, and thus they conveniently don't comprehend it, the fact is that they don't want to give in, or even reach a compromise, they want to force everyone to play the game they want, and to hell with anyone else, their ideas, wants, or desires.
Quote from UchihaBalls »
Yes to The Outlands.
It generaly sound good. Could use some tweeking.
Im not sure with the spawn point thingy, maybe if it was made by rarer materials.
Tweeking I'm open to, suggestion I'm open to, currently not a single person has built on the idea I have posted. No one has offered a compromise to meet their opposition, they just stomp their feet and say no.
Quote from UchihaBalls »
Yes to more dungeons and dragoons and bosses and other creature related things. But no humans/NPC.
I like finding dungeons, and it would be even more fun if there were bigger dungeons and rare mobs in some dungeons.
This was covered in "Quests" for lack of a better term. Though you give no reason to oppose humans, or NPCs. Was it the trading?
Quote from UchihaBalls »
Yes to the armors.
Ty, I tried to build on what was in game and expand on the idea.
Quote from xmrsmoothx »
Jesus, can't anyone take an opposing opinion without calling troll and starting a fight?
I agree completley with muncher- Skills would ruin Minecraft, plain and simple.
You say there's no grind required, which makes sense, but it's like telling a fat chick "you can get thinner by doing this, but you don't have to". She would obviously "do this" over and over to get thinner. She doesn't have to, but she gets a bonus and she'll do it for that. The grind for skills isn't 'necessary' per se, but it's mandatory if you want to be 'the best'. If you don't grind, you suck.
The skills would ultimately amount to a happy bonus after a while, that's it. To suggest otherwise shows you have not read the material, flat out oppose it and will make up anything to make yourself sound right, or just plainly aren't capable of grasping the concept.
Quote from xmrsmoothx »
I've thought of NPCs before, and I'm certain they wouldn't be an improvment on the game unless in a different mode - survival mode is a sandbox, and role playing has no place in it. Adventure mode, this idea may have merit.
Skills, though... no.
Survival mode should be about survival, creation mode is a sandbox. If you want to play creation mode, have fun, but don't insist that i be stuck in creation mode forever. Right now survival mode and creation mode have very little difference, which I am attempting to remedy with this post. Remedy because it's a problem. Right now we have.. creation mode, or creation mode.
And to suggest that survival mode has no place for role playing, as you sit in the castle you built, wearing the armor you crafted, is really quite ridiculous.
Quote from UchihaBalls »
I just read through the topic. And i must say.. Tigax you are a ****.
You just can't stand that everyone doesn't agree with you and that your idea isn't the greatest.
Just becouse someone doesn't agree with you he/she/it isn't a troll.
I can't stand the fit throwing and completely asinine arguments against an idea that will have little, if any, impact on the gameplay styles of those who oppose it. Their arguments are baseless and without compromise. Many of them didn't even bother to read the post, the read nothing more than the title then came in and stated their opinion, though it was based on a few words. Let's take quests for example, many people opposed the quests, yet didn't read it well enough to understand that it wasn't really a quest at all, more of a rumor; but what am I to do, suggest that rumors be added to the game?
Quote from xmrsmoothx »
And what i think muncher is trying to say about the skill IRL. is that after you (let's continue with the paper planes) is that after a fixed amount of making them you don't suddenly become better, You become better after each plane you make.
Ever heard of eureka!, or an epiphany? You honestly want to sit there and agree that practicing an action does not make you better at it, and attempt to remake that point? You Must be smarter than that.
I think you saw me pwning muncher left and right, and thinking he was the victim, you attempted to step in and save him from me.
Quote from xmrsmoothx »
And seriously a skill system would prett much make everyone grind.
No.. it wouldn't. READ THE DAMN POST then picture in your mind how it would all go down. Picture yourself getting ready to grind stone picks, think of what you would have to do in order to even set yourself up TO grind that skill. And for what? To save a few stone? So they will last just a little longer? Come on, you're smarter than this.
Thank you Dixie for your input and noticing the restraint I have painstakingly tried to show.
Quote from muncher21 »
I'm not leaving this topic now!
Of course you won't, you can't stand that you are wrong and you will beat your head against this wall until I give in to you. But it won't happen. You cannot win here, Muncher, because you are wrong, you don't read the posts, you attempt to lie in order to further your arguments, and you absolutely will not concede to the fact that you have lost this argument from the beginning. Again, you are a troll, to concede is not in your personality, you are incapable of admitting you have mistaken; which is why you attempt to accuse me of the same. You have been sent reeling into your own oblivious reality and use offense to buy time to gather your resources. Basically, you have all this time been attempting to put me on my heels and defend myself, all the while I've been exerting great force on you putting you onto your heels. I have argued with so many people like you that this is kid's play to me. You can continue your flailing, but know this, you will fail, each and every time, because you are wrong.
Offer a valid argument for your opposition and I will entertain it's submission, continue your vagrancy, and I will continue to spank you at every turn.
Quote from muncher21 »
I judge each suggestion under the same light. I don't make any biases or have any favorites. I judge each Idea equally. Yes i judge all of these harshly but, if we are'nt selective about which suggestions we put in the game, It will become over bloated and terrible. Most people, like the OP can't deal with knowing that their idea is bad. So they shut it out with by crying troll or just ignoring people that tell them their idea sucks.
You are not qualified nor important enough to judge anything. State your opinion, substantiate it, offer a compromise and gtfo.. or stfu.. you pick.
You are alone Muncher, I hate to say it, it sounds very mean, but you are alone. There is no "we" here, you do not speak on behalf of anyone but yourself, you do make decisions that anyone pays attention to, you are a single voice in a crowd. Humility is a lesson you would do well to learn.
Quote from muncher21 »
The reason I get mistaken for a troll is people are whinny things that can't judge their own idea well.
You are not mistaken for a troll, you are observed as a troll. Read the definition of the word as I told you a few posts ago and see how many of those points of criteria you fall into. You are a troll, plain and simple. It doesn't mean you will always be a troll, it just means you are one now.
Quote from muncher21 »
Yes this is about as non-intrusive as skill systems can get, but even this is still a bad gameplay concept. It promotes grinding to much, and grinding is bad.
You insist upon not understanding the practical implications of the skill system, if you did you would realize that no sane person would bother grinding the skill, it's not cost effective. The benefits do not outweigh the expense.
Quote from muncher21 »
And I doubt I scare people. The amount of stupid ideas has done nothing but go up since I joined. The good topics need to be constantly bumped to be kept above the flood of sewage.
This is your opinion, not an actuality, again, you are only one voice, Muncher. You may be a little bit louder than most other people, but that does not make you right or your opinion any more valid than another person's.
Quote from muncher21 »
But that's beside the point.
You all seem to busy calling me a troll and none of you supporters have tried to disprove any of my arguments.
How about proving to me this idea is good instead of just trying to swat me away with lame insults like "fail troll is fail".
And you can prove to me an idea is good, the aether topic did it, so you can too. So don't say I'm my support is unattainable.
We all in this thread? Or we all on the forums as a whole? I'm the only one in the thread that has said you were a troll, as far as I know. So reading your post let me see if I get this straight, you speak for the majority of the people on the forums, and everyone is against you? So you're the victim here and we should all feel sorry for you because you can't make a valid argument and get called a troll because you don't even try? I pity you, but for your lack of companionship and personal vindication, not because you can't act like an ass and make a bunch of friends on the internet at the same time.
Make a valid argument and I will disprove any which need to be. Here's a task for you.. make an objective compromise.
Show me it's possible.
You want voice acting
Your out-lands idea made no sense.
You want to limit the area player can explore unchanged terrain. Did it ever occur to you that some people just like to explore in minecraft? Also, Having a set point where cities will spawn ruins the randomness of all the maps. If the map gen says "oh heres the 1892th chunk! Start building cities!!!" that ruins immersion and the originality of the maps.
On the topic of immersion, having NPCs that do one job and only one job make them feel more like coded robots then people, shattering any immersion the game had.
The quests made no sense... From what I understand, going into a cave system, finding a dungeon, and looting it would be the exact same as your idea.
Trading, encourages players to go dig 200 dirt, which they can then trade for iron later. The risk/reward of digging 200 dirt and mining iron is not equal so that fails.
The out-lands would be a ***** to code, and as said above, having a distance limit on it ruins the originality of maps.
Your device to move a spawn point is way to easy to get. (especially if I have a 200% durability diamond pick! good thing I made all those stone picks to get my skill level up!)
Your skill system is a utter pile of crap.
Really?
You never explained how voice acting would work, nor dd you counter argue how voice acting has no place in minecraft.
I never saw a explanation of how the out-lands word
Never explained how each world would be "random" when all cities start building in the same area
Never said anything on how you would keep the npc's acting like humans instead of robots
Never counter argued about the quests being ****ing stupid, and the same as finding a dungeon
Never said anything about how the trading system would be balanced.
Never said how to reduce coding of the outalnds
Never said anything about how the spawn device is to easy to get.
The only one way you've kind of reputed my argument is with grinding, And you said the amount of resources necessary to grind would be huge. How would not grinding reduce the amount of resources needed to gain levels?
Wouldn't the amount of resources remain the same if grinding or not grinding?
Give me cold hard counter arguments to these problems.
None of that "troll ****"
None of that "go reread the OP again ****"
None of that "Oh I think your arguments are silly, so I'll just ignore it's valid point"
Just straight explanations of how I'm wrong.
And....
OP says
Quote from Tigax »
you're self-righteous
He calls me self-rightous
TO quote you op
Quote from Tigax »
You must still be new to the game, and are still amazed by the thought of being able to move dirt from one place to another.
Quote from Tigax »
You must still be new to the game, and are still amazed by the thought of being able to move dirt from one place to another.
Quote from Tigax »
The skills would ultimately amount to a happy bonus after a while, that's it. To suggest otherwise shows you have not read the material, flat out oppose it and will make up anything to make yourself sound right, or just plainly aren't capable of grasping the concept.
Those are'nt self righteous at all, right?
Also,
You seem really keen that everyone who disliked the skill system, actual just misread or did'nt read the entire thing. Out of the 10 people have told you the skill system is bad, I think one must have read the skill system paragraph. I know I've read it, several times. IT STILL SUCKS. It does. It really does. Maybe if you got your head out of your ass, you'd be able to here the ten people telling you the same thing.
Show us it is a good system, Don't just tell us were wrong, and we need to reread the post
And ******** on the "eureka" and **** like that. Getting better at something come gradually. It doesn't build to on moment.
Quote from Tigax »
I think you saw me pwning muncher left and right, and thinking he was the victim, you attempted to step in and save him from me.
This **** right here.
When have you "pwned" me? How can you "pwn" me in a post?
You have not counter argued a single point.
All you do with my arguments is as follows
-Tell me to read the OP
-Tell me my argument is folly and baseless, but give no proof of how so.
This is all you do, then say "you spank me"
Maybe if you came off the pedestal you've built for your self, you'll realize you idea is ****, your a ***** with your nose stuck int he air so far you would drown when it rains, and maybe you'll realize that you have not argued against one of my arguments.
I could go on going through all your other stupid quotes....
and I will!
You are not qualified nor important enough to judge anything. State your opinion, substantiate it, offer a compromise and gtfo.. or stfu.. you pick.
You are alone Muncher, I hate to say it, it sounds very mean, but you are alone. There is no "we" here, you do not speak on behalf of anyone but yourself, you do make decisions that anyone pays attention to, you are a single voice in a crowd. Humility is a lesson you would do well to learn.
1. How do I get qualified? Do i need your approval? If I'm not qualified to judge anything, How did you get the right?
2. What are you implying when you say I'm alone? That I have no friends? Is this one of your "counter arguments"?
OR is this you "spanking me" It seems to me your using personal insults as a way to avoid having to defend any of your idea with good evidence.
We all in this thread? Or we all on the forums as a whole? I'm the only one in the thread that has said you were a troll, as far as I know. So reading your post let me see if I get this straight, you speak for the majority of the people on the forums, and everyone is against you? So you're the victim here and we should all feel sorry for you because you can't make a valid argument and get called a troll because you don't even try? I pity you, but for your lack of companionship and personal vindication, not because you can't act like an ass and make a bunch of friends on the internet at the same time.
Make a valid argument and I will disprove any which need to be. Here's a task for you.. make an objective compromise.
Show me it's possible.
1. I meant you. Your the only one kicking and screaming "TROLL!11!!!111" like a 7 year old.
I never claimed to be a victim, seems like your making up things in my post to try to have a argument against them.
2. I quoted all the arguments I had a few posts back. You just yelled troll some more.
3. I gave you one in that very post, but I guess you did'nt read.
And I thought you were ignoring my posts.
Also
Threads I like:
The aether, fora-craft, more bows and arrows.
The aether actually won me over to supporting it by actually giving me good counter arguments.
I also liked,
Farmcraft, Water melons, hags, the dragon model proposal, the ghoul mob suggestion, 2X2 crafting grid, and ocean craft.
It can be done, but you have to actually be able to argue a point without resorting to name calling, like a 7 year old.
In the end OP, all you are is a kid, using the only arguing tactic he knows, which is name calling.
The only thing that makes you different is you have a thesaurus and a overinflated ego.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
I like how the NPC A.I. works in the Builder's NPC mod. They seem to be programmed to explore just like the player does, seeking out relatively flat areas to build on. With customizable schematics to randomly choose from they build small simple homes for themselves. A mayor and his small team of builders build a trading center nearby. Meanwhile NPC hunters and/or soldiers defend the budding settlement from creepers seeking to destroy what they build.
I could see this working well if only a limited number of these npcs were allowed to spawn at one time and they tended to stick together as a community of their own, working together on a spot of land they all choose to call their own. A pretty small spot too. Like a flat area of a valley surrounded by mountains.
Or perhaps they do not start acting like a community until the player gets involved somehow like as part of a quest. The player meets the one that will become the leader of the rest of them. He tells the player they have been having trouble finding a safe place to call home. So the player finds the ideal spot for them to start fortifying and building.
The area must meet certain requirements or the NPC will complain for one reason or another. It has to be flat ofcourse and has to be above a minimum size. And has to be well lit at night to prevent creepers from spawning right there. Maybe even make it so they only build on a certain foundation which the player can lay down anywhere and in any pattern the player chooses.
Perhaps they lack resources so the player starts a mine near by with access to ores complete with a minecart track. Heck you could even manage them like sims. Like say the size and type of homes they build depends not only on the size of the foundations you lay out for them, but also on the resources they manage to collect in their storehouses. They build the storehouses and put signs on them so you know what they are storing there. And you can look inside to see how much they've collected. If isn't enough you can add more if you want to help them.
Obviously, they aren't going to get very far if you dont help them in some way. Even if just to clear a straight mining tunnel to which ever subteranean level you want them to start mining at. Would be cool too if you could specify the mining pattern they follow the same way you can for their buildings. And they lay minecart tracks as they go, and build track-bridges over lava/water/long drops as they mine.
EDIT: Got another idea to add to this. The player could choose the role he or she will play when dealing with this npc group. You could choose to just be their champion, defending them from mobs. In which case they will act very timid against mobs, running away when they encounter them while mining or building thus disrupting what they are doing. So they might abandon a mine or refuse to continue expanding it until you have found the beast and killed it. Same with building their village. In that case of course it would have to be a special mob that doesnt despawn and camps that place untill you slay it.
OR you could choose the role of leader, telling them all what to do next. Or the role of trader. Bartering with them for mutually beneficial trades. Their trade inventory could then randomly spawn things that the player might find useful but which wouldn't be of much use to them. And some things they build would depend on the materials you trade to them.
Maybe you choose the professor role or something like that. I could imagine an even less intrusive skills system developed in this way by making it so that the skill you earn from doing certain things does not actually do anything for you directly but increases your ability to pass on knowledge of your skill to npcs. And if you choose such a role the npcs then rely on you to teach them stuff before they can advance any further in their own progress.
Really?
You never explained how voice acting would work, nor dd you counter argue how voice acting has no place in minecraft.
We already have sounds in the game triggered by events, how do you THINK voice acting would work? An event would trigger the sound file of a person talking, an event like, oh, i dunno, talking to a person?? Really muncher, if this question was any indication to how well you thought out the rest, I'll be very upset.
Quote from muncher21 »
I never saw a explanation of how the out-lands word
They worK in that they have specific terra types, like i posted; how do they work? how is that even a question. How does any of it work? Really dude, you're pissing me off now.
Quote from muncher21 »
Never explained how each world would be "random" when all cities start building in the same area
I believe this is the second time i have said that there wouldn't be large cities, unless Notch decided to make them that way, i said a FEW HOUSES could POSSIBLY spawn in groups OUTSIDE the 41 by 41 chunk area surrounding where you initially spawn when you first make the world.
Quote from muncher21 »
Never said anything on how you would keep the npc's acting like humans instead of robots
Honestly bro, are you retarded? You're asking me how the NPCs wouldn't act like robots. Hey Notch, if you can figure out how to make NPCs act like humans instead of robots, you're wasting your time with Minecraft you should be making robots for the chinese.
Quote from muncher21 »
Never counter argued about the quests being ****ing stupid, and the same as finding a dungeon
How neighborly of you, and abusive, keep talking like that and you're getting the report button pushed.
The quests, if you READ THE POST, is just that, a dungeon with stuff in the bottom. Was I to call it a rumor and ask that rumors be added to the game? Use your head, "Quest" was the closest word to explain the idea.
Quote from muncher21 »
Never said anything about how the trading system would be balanced.
Balance come with use, i can't balance something that isn't being tested, if you could do that you wouldn't need to balance it, because you could just make it right the first time.
Quote from muncher21 »
Never said how to reduce coding of the outalnds
You make absolutely no sense, first you say that you don't understand how it works, and now you say that you know how much code there would be. Which is it?
Quote from muncher21 »
Never said anything about how the spawn device is to easy to get.
So suggest that it's too easy to get and that it should be made of diamonds, honestly, is suggestive collaboration so far out of your reach that you are oblivious to it?
Quote from muncher21 »
The only one way you've kind of reputed my argument is with grinding, And you said the amount of resources necessary to grind would be huge. How would not grinding reduce the amount of resources needed to gain levels?
Wouldn't the amount of resources remain the same if grinding or not grinding?
I realize that you are stuck on the idea that you HAVE to gain levels to play the game, and that's your problem, you THINK you have to gain levels to play the game. Even though i have stated so many times, that levels give you nothing more than a happy bonus for having done it so much. It doesn't open up any progressive crafts, it doesn't make you uber warranting the grind. It's simply a happy bonus. Say it with me, nothing more than a bonus.
Quote from muncher21 »
Give me cold hard counter arguments to these problems.
None of that "troll ****"
None of that "go reread the OP again ****"
None of that "Oh I think your arguments are silly, so I'll just ignore it's valid point"
Just straight explanations of how I'm wrong.
And....
OP says
Quote from Tigax »
you're self-righteous
He calls me self-rightous
Cry Moar
Quote from muncher21 »
TO quote you op
Quote from Tigax »
You must still be new to the game, and are still amazed by the thought of being able to move dirt from one place to another.
Quote from Tigax »
You must still be new to the game, and are still amazed by the thought of being able to move dirt from one place to another.
Quote from Tigax »
The skills would ultimately amount to a happy bonus after a while, that's it. To suggest otherwise shows you have not read the material, flat out oppose it and will make up anything to make yourself sound right, or just plainly aren't capable of grasping the concept.
Those are'nt self righteous at all, right?
Do you know what self-righteous means?
Some guy comes in here to take your side, never read the posts, never read the OP, didn't care about anything but siding with you, and I pointed out all of this. If i had to guess, you had one of your buddies come in to argue on your behalf and fake the vindication that you aren't getting here to bolster you and make you look like you have support, when clearly you do not. The plain and simple fact is that you, nor your friend, either read the material, are willing to agree to these ideas and will (and have) made up anything you could think of to make yourself sound justified, and if none of that is true, you just lack the ability to read and comprehend. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's pretty obvious when you continuously attempt to argue the same points over and over even though they were imagined by you.
Quote from muncher21 »
Also,
You seem really keen that everyone who disliked the skill system, actual just misread or did'nt read the entire thing. Out of the 10 people have told you the skill system is bad, I think one must have read the skill system paragraph. I know I've read it, several times. IT STILL SUCKS. It does. It really does. Maybe if you got your head out of your ass, you'd be able to here the ten people telling you the same thing.
Show us it is a good system, Don't just tell us were wrong, and we need to reread the post
And ******** on the "eureka" and **** like that. Getting better at something come gradually. It doesn't build to on moment.
Again and again we go over this, people don't like skills because it is a repetitive action one must take in order to progress in that profession, as you've encountered in numerous other games, so people see "skills" think "grind" (as you did) and say no no no no no. Having actually READ THE POST you would very soon realize that this is not the case with these "skills" so the whole premise for the opposition is baseless and mistaken. If you read the post on skills and think grind, you need to read it again, stop injecting your own personal prejudices and just read what I wrote.
I think what you are trying to say is that you don't like the "leveling", in that you don't like that your reaching a threshold results in a benefit, you want it to gradually increase, which is fine with me, make the benefit dynamic then, make the benefit a random bonus based on a percentage of maximum in ratio to the skill xp, checked each time you perform the action.
Quote from muncher21 »
Quote from Tigax »
I think you saw me pwning muncher left and right, and thinking he was the victim, you attempted to step in and save him from me.
This **** right here.
When have you "pwned" me? How can you "pwn" me in a post?
You have not counter argued a single point.
All you do with my arguments is as follows
-Tell me to read the OP
-Tell me my argument is folly and baseless, but give no proof of how so.
This is self explanatory, you've gotten your ass handed to you pretty much the whole time you've tried to flame.
Quote from muncher21 »
This is all you do, then say "you spank me"
Maybe if you came off the pedestal you've built for your self, you'll realize you idea is ****, your a ***** with your nose stuck int he air so far you would drown when it rains, and maybe you'll realize that you have not argued against one of my arguments.
I could go on going through all your other stupid quotes....
and I will!
blah blah blah
Quote from muncher21 »
You are not qualified nor important enough to judge anything. State your opinion, substantiate it, offer a compromise and gtfo.. or stfu.. you pick.
You are alone Muncher, I hate to say it, it sounds very mean, but you are alone. There is no "we" here, you do not speak on behalf of anyone but yourself, you do make decisions that anyone pays attention to, you are a single voice in a crowd. Humility is a lesson you would do well to learn.
1. How do I get qualified? Do i need your approval? If I'm not qualified to judge anything, How did you get the right?
You don't get qualified, lol, you never will be qualified, no one is. We are all equals here, generally speaking, our opinions are no better than any others, and that's what you need to learn. I don't make judgments, about whether someone's opinion is right or wrong, I state my opinion for contrast. Pointing out obvious truths is not a judgment, when you have clearly not read the post, to say as much is not a judgment, it's an observation.
Quote from muncher21 »
2. What are you implying when you say I'm alone? That I have no friends? Is this one of your "counter arguments"?
OR is this you "spanking me" It seems to me your using personal insults as a way to avoid having to defend any of your idea with good evidence.
I mean that you speak only for yourself, no one else. Avoid using the word "we" when speaking of yourself, you did it to make it seem like you had people on your side in a clear effort to belittle me and to intimidate anyone else that might agree with me.
Quote from muncher21 »
We all in this thread? Or we all on the forums as a whole? I'm the only one in the thread that has said you were a troll, as far as I know. So reading your post let me see if I get this straight, you speak for the majority of the people on the forums, and everyone is against you? So you're the victim here and we should all feel sorry for you because you can't make a valid argument and get called a troll because you don't even try? I pity you, but for your lack of companionship and personal vindication, not because you can't act like an ass and make a bunch of friends on the internet at the same time.
Make a valid argument and I will disprove any which need to be. Here's a task for you.. make an objective compromise.
Show me it's possible.
1. I meant you. Your the only one kicking and screaming "TROLL!11!!!111" like a 7 year old.
I never claimed to be a victim, seems like your making up things in my post to try to have a argument against them.
So I am many? The phrase you used was "you all". And again,
Obvious troll is obvious.
You tried to paint yourself as a victim when you said everyone was picking on you and calling you a troll, and while I'm nearly moved to tears at the thought that poor little muncher might be picked on by people for being a troll, I just can't quite squeeze out a tear for you. (I've already told you, any attempt to put me on my heels will result in the opposite happening.)
Quote from muncher21 »
2. I quoted all the arguments I had a few posts back. You just yelled troll some more.
3. I gave you one in that very post, but I guess you did'nt read.
And I thought you were ignoring my posts.
Repeating yourself, or raising your voice does not somehow magically validate your points, sorry, it doesn't work like that.
Quote from muncher21 »
Also
Threads I like:
The aether, fora-craft, more bows and arrows.
The aether actually won me over to supporting it by actually giving me good counter arguments.
I also liked,
Farmcraft, Water melons, hags, the dragon model proposal, the ghoul mob suggestion, 2X2 crafting grid, and ocean craft.
It can be done, but you have to actually be able to argue a point without resorting to name calling, like a 7 year old.
In the end OP, all you are is a kid, using the only arguing tactic he knows, which is name calling.
The only thing that makes you different is you have a thesaurus and a overinflated ego.
How does this matter to me? That someone else caved in and just let you rewrite their post for them? Is that what happened? You've offered exactly no compromise whatsoever. Show me it's possible to win your support by offering up intellectual contribution, collaborative compromise, or really anything more than "no, this sucks".
Actually, don't bother. You've had ample opportunity to do so. I'm through arguing in circles with you, this thread needs room for people that want to contribute.
Ok. I've read your damn post millions of times. When I say things you say "are just me making things up" It's because obviously I'm not getting what you said. IF you don't say how trading is going to work, how can I know how it's going to work? You never said how it going to work, you just said there would be trading. Based on what you said about trading, "And you could trade wood, stone, and metal at a blacksmith for metal products."
Does this mean I trade logs for iron, or possibly diamond?
How am I supposed to know when you have'nt told me?
The problem with towns.
You say from the 20 to the 41 chunk is civilization.
Chunks are, (a quote from minepedia)
"They are 16 blocks wide, 16 blocks long, and 128 blocks deep."
That means on normal render distance, I would be able to see civilization from spawn.
Voice acting doesn't belong in minecraft. It just doesn't. If you think it does, your wrong and your playing the wrong game.
Your out-land sounded just like biomes, but impossible to code biomes. Notch has to code all of those things you want, such as map traps, avalanches, ship wrecks, flying mobs, volcanoes, and mountains. Then notch has to link this all to the NPCs that will mention each of these places for quests. Then, he has to code it so all of this is random and different for every map.
That is not possible. It's not.
You say there will only be a few houses, but here are all the buildings you say the player will be able to use.
Lumber shop
Masonry shop
Blacksmith's shop
Pub
Houses for the normal NPC's
Unless the city is only inhabited by a lumberjack, a stone mason, blacksmith, and a bar tender, I'm going to assume there will be 5 other "normal" npc's living in the city. ( I have to assume this because you never gave number of NPC's in the town in you post.)
That mean each of the 5 "normal" NPC's will have there own house.
That means there will be nine houses, more after the player arrives.
Nine houses with 3 shops, and a pub, is not a small village.
If a quest is just a trip into the mines to find a dungeon, why can't the player do that on their own? Why do you have to have the NPC's mention it.
You say you can't balance your own idea. I can't tell from your OP how the trading system will work, so how can I know it's balanced? maybe if you actually wrote out how things would work, instead of saying "Oh there should be trading" I would be able to better understand what your saying.
I'm not going to balance your idea for you. It's your idea you fix it. Your spawn device is too easy to get. Fix it on your own. You obviously don't want my help so why ask for it?
Ok, I'm going to do a complete run down of skills and why they suck.
TO start this, you need to understand how skill systems work.
Skill systems work on a theory called "skinner box theory" This theory was develops by Fredrick Skinner. His experiment was, put a pigeon in a box with a button. Every-time the pigeon pecked the button, the pigeon got food. This was ground breaking because it proved the pigeon made the connection between the button and the food, and that the pidgeon would Preform an action based on this connection.
Changing what choices a person or animal makes is called Operant conditioning.
That's the important part.
You see, skill levels use the same theory. They tell the player, "hey we'll give you a reward for doing this X amount of times" It may not be required, but the player will do it for the reward. The pigeon might not need the food to live, but the pigeon did it because the food tasted good. If doing something multiple times will make the player better in the game, Players will do it constantly and repetitively Even if it's not required. It still makes the player better, so they will continue to grind away at the level, even if they don't have too.
People will always grind levels even if it's not required. They will. That is a fact.
If You did'nt get this, Here is a place where it is better explained so maybe it will penetrate.
I've read the skill section thousands of times, and I still say it will bring about grinding.
You say I brought my buddies in to help argue my points. Actually, most of those people have had Ideas I have disliked, but they still thought your ideas were stupid.
You say you want to allow people to contribute, but every-time someone has given you something to fix or change you just tell them to read the OP again. It seems to me you just want people to praise your idea and not change any of it. You have offered less compromise then anyone else here.
Now you'll probably tell me i did'nt read the OP enough or just cry "troll" some more.
And for someone who says people say stuff with out reading, you obviously did'nt read the threads I gave you, because not one of them rewrote anything for me. They showed me how the idea would work and told me how they would blance things. You would have seen that if you had read. But you did'nt.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Possibly THE most stupidest thing ever said so far.
Ever heard of 'practice makes perfect'?
What about reading, writing, kicking a ball, completing a puzzle or even playing minecraft?
You have to do it 100 times to get any better. Go read my earlier post about not playing if you don't want to.
I did.
Then I read the OP's post how this WASN'T meant for adventure mode or any new mode, like you said it was.
Whoops!
And practice doesn't make perfect if you a normal guy stranded in the middle of no where, making picks out of stone.
The first time you start Minecraft you are pretty much a noob. The second time you start you become a little bit better. By the third time you know exactly what to do in nearly every situation. (Or at least I did)
Let's say you were going to expand Minecraft and noted everyone before the coding was written. (Like Notch does most of the time) If there was an equal enthusiasm for the new game mode as well as a cry to keep things the same, the only logical thing to do would be to go ahead and create the new mode but as a separate game part.
Eg. Download an update for the new game mode if you want or keep playing the original Minecraft (which will still have updates) Durp...
Minecraft is meant to be a sandbox building game about surviving in world of blocks.
Not an RPG.
If you want all these things, go play Runescape or something.
The closest one may get in this game to NPC characters are Pigmen Villages. And that isn't even being worked on yet.
So... yeah.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... bleFanbase
If notch adds this as a separate game mode (ie. adventure mode) and continues updating survival, I'm fine with it. But as the OP stated, this is for survival, not adventure mode.
Also, your explanation of practice makes perfect is how games should work. The player gets better by their own experiences and they get better as a player, not by some dumb and arbitrary skill system.
So yes let the player practice with the game themselves and make themselves better players.
We don't need the skill system to do that for us.
Thanks for the extra argument against the skill system!
glad you see it my way
He actually said ..
This is clearly a troll looking for vindication.
Oh and Muncher, the difference between when I use words you've never seen and when you use words you've never seen, is that I use them correctly in a sentence. You obviously thought up some word (inflammatory) you thought was big and attempted to use it in a sentence to make yourself sound smart, yet having used it incorrectly (or possibly just lied) only showed that you fail. Or perhaps you used wikipedia to look up the definition (lol)
Sadly you continuously attempt to lie about what's written in the post then ridicule what you've made up. (like saying you could trade dirt for iron, or that making 20 picks would max your level)
The long and short of it, Muncher, is that you are a fail troll, failing to troll, so go troll somewhere else, you're no longer welcome in my thread. No more of your posts will be read nor answered by me, since they lack any substantial or even remotely useful information. If you want to whine and cry and just yell "no" at everything, go back to the rest of the forums.
Pretty obvious
You may want to actually read some of the literature out there before coming in here spouting off what you think the game's future is. I'm js
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsInstead of trying to counter argue any of my points your just call troll.
How bout explaining how I'm wrong instead of Just saying "Oh your a fail troll"
and you using "big words" makes you look like a 14 year old with a thesaurus sitting next to them. This is esspecially glaring when you use words like "fail".
But now your just going to stick your fingers in your ears and block me out, Instead of trying to counter ANY of my arguments.
So you lose by forfeit.
I agree completley with muncher- Skills would ruin Minecraft, plain and simple.
You say there's no grind required, which makes sense, but it's like telling a fat chick "you can get thinner by doing this, but you don't have to". She would obviously "do this" over and over to get thinner. She doesn't have to, but she gets a bonus and she'll do it for that. The grind for skills isn't 'necessary' per se, but it's mandatory if you want to be 'the best'. If you don't grind, you suck.
I've thought of NPCs before, and I'm certain they wouldn't be an improvment on the game unless in a different mode - survival mode is a sandbox, and role playing has no place in it. Adventure mode, this idea may have merit.
Skills, though... no.
Theres a mod for that. I'm going to try it out when it gets updated to latest version. From watching the videos though I can see how it could conflict with player agendas. But it appears to be very customizable. So we'll see.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=111753&hilit=builders
Pretty harsh considering all the completely unsympathetic feedback Tigax has gotten here especially from muncher who seems to be proud to be a "****" as you call it.
As one response to muncher put it:
To which muncher responded:
In spite of all the strong opinions against skills I still find Tigax's well written proposal persuasive. It is about as non-intrusive as a skills system can get. I would use it. Especially if it were customizable. Tigax's answers to the many criticisms did not strike me as dickish at all in comparison to the harsh and repetative criticisms.
Eventually you must stop and ask yourself. "Why do I keep getting mistaken for a troll?" Perhaps it is because when you disagree with an idea posed in a thread dedicated to that idea you do not just state your well reasoned argument against it in one post and move on. You keep posting over and over again creating a hostile environment where those who do like the idea are persuaded to keep their mouths shut for fear of adding more fuel to the fiery debate you've created. Or for fear of being flamed by you and the mob you've attracted.
Do we really need to keep reading the same criticism over and over again? Try taking your own advice and stop 'grinding' your axe on this topic if you dont like it. I don't think this topic was created for you to level your debate skill on. I'm still watching this thread because I like the idea. Why are you still watching it?
minebook.me (Facebook for Minecraft)
I judge each suggestion under the same light. I don't make any biases or have any favorites. I judge each Idea equally. Yes i judge all of these harshly but, if we are'nt selective about which suggestions we put in the game, It will become over bloated and terrible. Most people, like the OP can't deal with knowing that their idea is bad. So they shut it out with by crying troll or just ignoring people that tell them their idea sucks.
The reason I get mistaken for a troll is people are whinny things that can't judge their own idea well.
Yes this is about as non-intrusive as skill systems can get, but even this is still a bad gameplay concept. It promotes grinding to much, and grinding is bad.
And I doubt I scare people. The amount of stupid ideas has done nothing but go up since I joined. The good topics need to be constantly bumped to be kept above the flood of sewage.
But that's beside the point.
You all seem to busy calling me a troll and none of you supporters have tried to disprove any of my arguments.
How about proving to me this idea is good instead of just trying to swat me away with lame insults like "fail troll is fail".
And you can prove to me an idea is good, the aether topic did it, so you can too. So don't say I'm my support is unattainable.
Of course you do, you're self-righteous
The few points you've attempted to make were destroyed by the original post. Beyond that you fabricated your own reality and expected me to argue on behalf of whatever you made up. If you want to argue with yourself, feel free, but do it somewhere else.
You being wrong and you being a troll are two separate points of observation. I have repeatedly explained how you are wrong in your "ideas". You're a fail troll, because you attempted to troll, and failed. And here you are, yet again, mining more forum posts in my thread.
Do you even read what you write before hitting submit? honestly, I'd like to know.
You haven't made any arguments that I have not repeatedly countered and skunked you on. At this point, who are you trying to convince that you are right? Me or You?
And this would be changed how? You still start out in the middle of nothing, with nothing, around no one. Only if you venture out far enough, only if you choose to do so, will you have the possibility of finding any NPCs.
You must still be new to the game, and are still amazed by the thought of being able to move dirt from one place to another. Soon enough you will be playing and digging up stuff, then stop and go.. wtf, this isn't a game, what is there to do? Answer: Nothing. This is a massive 3d paint program, it's longevity comes to a screeching halt pretty fast. That's not to say i hate the game, i love it, and i love the potential it has. Many people, like muncher, wants the "game" to stay a 3d paint program forever, which is a death sentence for Minecraft. Either this game starts coming up with things to occupy the purchaser's time or it's going to get a bad name. It will become little more than novelty.
This was the essence of many of my rebuttals to the gripes against skills, actually. Many times over have I said that grinding a skill would be pointless, but some people hold firm to the idea that people will do it. Completely ignorant of the practicality, they insist that people will still grind, they insist that it will bring boredom to the game. Yet they refuse to see the fact that in order to grind, the person will have to use up and destroy huge amounts of resources; all to save a few at the end? The only thing I could image anyone would grind for is to save on diamonds, or iron, yet in order to reach a skill level required to actually save diamonds would cost so many diamonds that it wouldn't be worth it. The skill bonus would be just that, a happy bonus. Acknowledging this fact renders the opposition's argument moot, and thus they conveniently don't comprehend it, the fact is that they don't want to give in, or even reach a compromise, they want to force everyone to play the game they want, and to hell with anyone else, their ideas, wants, or desires.
Tweeking I'm open to, suggestion I'm open to, currently not a single person has built on the idea I have posted. No one has offered a compromise to meet their opposition, they just stomp their feet and say no.
This was covered in "Quests" for lack of a better term. Though you give no reason to oppose humans, or NPCs. Was it the trading?
Ty, I tried to build on what was in game and expand on the idea.
The skills would ultimately amount to a happy bonus after a while, that's it. To suggest otherwise shows you have not read the material, flat out oppose it and will make up anything to make yourself sound right, or just plainly aren't capable of grasping the concept.
Survival mode should be about survival, creation mode is a sandbox. If you want to play creation mode, have fun, but don't insist that i be stuck in creation mode forever. Right now survival mode and creation mode have very little difference, which I am attempting to remedy with this post. Remedy because it's a problem. Right now we have.. creation mode, or creation mode.
And to suggest that survival mode has no place for role playing, as you sit in the castle you built, wearing the armor you crafted, is really quite ridiculous.
I can't stand the fit throwing and completely asinine arguments against an idea that will have little, if any, impact on the gameplay styles of those who oppose it. Their arguments are baseless and without compromise. Many of them didn't even bother to read the post, the read nothing more than the title then came in and stated their opinion, though it was based on a few words. Let's take quests for example, many people opposed the quests, yet didn't read it well enough to understand that it wasn't really a quest at all, more of a rumor; but what am I to do, suggest that rumors be added to the game?
Ever heard of eureka!, or an epiphany? You honestly want to sit there and agree that practicing an action does not make you better at it, and attempt to remake that point? You Must be smarter than that.
I think you saw me pwning muncher left and right, and thinking he was the victim, you attempted to step in and save him from me.
No.. it wouldn't. READ THE DAMN POST then picture in your mind how it would all go down. Picture yourself getting ready to grind stone picks, think of what you would have to do in order to even set yourself up TO grind that skill. And for what? To save a few stone? So they will last just a little longer? Come on, you're smarter than this.
Thank you Dixie for your input and noticing the restraint I have painstakingly tried to show.
Of course you won't, you can't stand that you are wrong and you will beat your head against this wall until I give in to you. But it won't happen. You cannot win here, Muncher, because you are wrong, you don't read the posts, you attempt to lie in order to further your arguments, and you absolutely will not concede to the fact that you have lost this argument from the beginning. Again, you are a troll, to concede is not in your personality, you are incapable of admitting you have mistaken; which is why you attempt to accuse me of the same. You have been sent reeling into your own oblivious reality and use offense to buy time to gather your resources. Basically, you have all this time been attempting to put me on my heels and defend myself, all the while I've been exerting great force on you putting you onto your heels. I have argued with so many people like you that this is kid's play to me. You can continue your flailing, but know this, you will fail, each and every time, because you are wrong.
Offer a valid argument for your opposition and I will entertain it's submission, continue your vagrancy, and I will continue to spank you at every turn.
You are not qualified nor important enough to judge anything. State your opinion, substantiate it, offer a compromise and gtfo.. or stfu.. you pick.
You are alone Muncher, I hate to say it, it sounds very mean, but you are alone. There is no "we" here, you do not speak on behalf of anyone but yourself, you do make decisions that anyone pays attention to, you are a single voice in a crowd. Humility is a lesson you would do well to learn.
You are not mistaken for a troll, you are observed as a troll. Read the definition of the word as I told you a few posts ago and see how many of those points of criteria you fall into. You are a troll, plain and simple. It doesn't mean you will always be a troll, it just means you are one now.
You insist upon not understanding the practical implications of the skill system, if you did you would realize that no sane person would bother grinding the skill, it's not cost effective. The benefits do not outweigh the expense.
This is your opinion, not an actuality, again, you are only one voice, Muncher. You may be a little bit louder than most other people, but that does not make you right or your opinion any more valid than another person's.
We all in this thread? Or we all on the forums as a whole? I'm the only one in the thread that has said you were a troll, as far as I know. So reading your post let me see if I get this straight, you speak for the majority of the people on the forums, and everyone is against you? So you're the victim here and we should all feel sorry for you because you can't make a valid argument and get called a troll because you don't even try? I pity you, but for your lack of companionship and personal vindication, not because you can't act like an ass and make a bunch of friends on the internet at the same time.
Make a valid argument and I will disprove any which need to be. Here's a task for you.. make an objective compromise.
Show me it's possible.
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsWow is good stuff, just repetitive, if there was a randomly generated wow it would be awesome.
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsReally?
You never explained how voice acting would work, nor dd you counter argue how voice acting has no place in minecraft.
I never saw a explanation of how the out-lands word
Never explained how each world would be "random" when all cities start building in the same area
Never said anything on how you would keep the npc's acting like humans instead of robots
Never counter argued about the quests being ****ing stupid, and the same as finding a dungeon
Never said anything about how the trading system would be balanced.
Never said how to reduce coding of the outalnds
Never said anything about how the spawn device is to easy to get.
The only one way you've kind of reputed my argument is with grinding, And you said the amount of resources necessary to grind would be huge. How would not grinding reduce the amount of resources needed to gain levels?
Wouldn't the amount of resources remain the same if grinding or not grinding?
Give me cold hard counter arguments to these problems.
None of that "troll ****"
None of that "go reread the OP again ****"
None of that "Oh I think your arguments are silly, so I'll just ignore it's valid point"
Just straight explanations of how I'm wrong.
And....
OP says
He calls me self-rightous
TO quote you op
Those are'nt self righteous at all, right?
Also,
You seem really keen that everyone who disliked the skill system, actual just misread or did'nt read the entire thing. Out of the 10 people have told you the skill system is bad, I think one must have read the skill system paragraph. I know I've read it, several times. IT STILL SUCKS. It does. It really does. Maybe if you got your head out of your ass, you'd be able to here the ten people telling you the same thing.
Show us it is a good system, Don't just tell us were wrong, and we need to reread the post
And ******** on the "eureka" and **** like that. Getting better at something come gradually. It doesn't build to on moment.
This **** right here.
When have you "pwned" me? How can you "pwn" me in a post?
You have not counter argued a single point.
All you do with my arguments is as follows
-Tell me to read the OP
-Tell me my argument is folly and baseless, but give no proof of how so.
This is all you do, then say "you spank me"
Maybe if you came off the pedestal you've built for your self, you'll realize you idea is ****, your a ***** with your nose stuck int he air so far you would drown when it rains, and maybe you'll realize that you have not argued against one of my arguments.
I could go on going through all your other stupid quotes....
and I will!
You are not qualified nor important enough to judge anything. State your opinion, substantiate it, offer a compromise and gtfo.. or stfu.. you pick.
You are alone Muncher, I hate to say it, it sounds very mean, but you are alone. There is no "we" here, you do not speak on behalf of anyone but yourself, you do make decisions that anyone pays attention to, you are a single voice in a crowd. Humility is a lesson you would do well to learn.
1. How do I get qualified? Do i need your approval? If I'm not qualified to judge anything, How did you get the right?
2. What are you implying when you say I'm alone? That I have no friends? Is this one of your "counter arguments"?
OR is this you "spanking me" It seems to me your using personal insults as a way to avoid having to defend any of your idea with good evidence.
We all in this thread? Or we all on the forums as a whole? I'm the only one in the thread that has said you were a troll, as far as I know. So reading your post let me see if I get this straight, you speak for the majority of the people on the forums, and everyone is against you? So you're the victim here and we should all feel sorry for you because you can't make a valid argument and get called a troll because you don't even try? I pity you, but for your lack of companionship and personal vindication, not because you can't act like an ass and make a bunch of friends on the internet at the same time.
Make a valid argument and I will disprove any which need to be. Here's a task for you.. make an objective compromise.
Show me it's possible.
1. I meant you. Your the only one kicking and screaming "TROLL!11!!!111" like a 7 year old.
I never claimed to be a victim, seems like your making up things in my post to try to have a argument against them.
2. I quoted all the arguments I had a few posts back. You just yelled troll some more.
3. I gave you one in that very post, but I guess you did'nt read.
And I thought you were ignoring my posts.
Also
Threads I like:
The aether, fora-craft, more bows and arrows.
The aether actually won me over to supporting it by actually giving me good counter arguments.
I also liked,
Farmcraft, Water melons, hags, the dragon model proposal, the ghoul mob suggestion, 2X2 crafting grid, and ocean craft.
It can be done, but you have to actually be able to argue a point without resorting to name calling, like a 7 year old.
In the end OP, all you are is a kid, using the only arguing tactic he knows, which is name calling.
The only thing that makes you different is you have a thesaurus and a overinflated ego.
I could see this working well if only a limited number of these npcs were allowed to spawn at one time and they tended to stick together as a community of their own, working together on a spot of land they all choose to call their own. A pretty small spot too. Like a flat area of a valley surrounded by mountains.
Or perhaps they do not start acting like a community until the player gets involved somehow like as part of a quest. The player meets the one that will become the leader of the rest of them. He tells the player they have been having trouble finding a safe place to call home. So the player finds the ideal spot for them to start fortifying and building.
The area must meet certain requirements or the NPC will complain for one reason or another. It has to be flat ofcourse and has to be above a minimum size. And has to be well lit at night to prevent creepers from spawning right there. Maybe even make it so they only build on a certain foundation which the player can lay down anywhere and in any pattern the player chooses.
Perhaps they lack resources so the player starts a mine near by with access to ores complete with a minecart track. Heck you could even manage them like sims. Like say the size and type of homes they build depends not only on the size of the foundations you lay out for them, but also on the resources they manage to collect in their storehouses. They build the storehouses and put signs on them so you know what they are storing there. And you can look inside to see how much they've collected. If isn't enough you can add more if you want to help them.
Obviously, they aren't going to get very far if you dont help them in some way. Even if just to clear a straight mining tunnel to which ever subteranean level you want them to start mining at. Would be cool too if you could specify the mining pattern they follow the same way you can for their buildings. And they lay minecart tracks as they go, and build track-bridges over lava/water/long drops as they mine.
EDIT: Got another idea to add to this. The player could choose the role he or she will play when dealing with this npc group. You could choose to just be their champion, defending them from mobs. In which case they will act very timid against mobs, running away when they encounter them while mining or building thus disrupting what they are doing. So they might abandon a mine or refuse to continue expanding it until you have found the beast and killed it. Same with building their village. In that case of course it would have to be a special mob that doesnt despawn and camps that place untill you slay it.
OR you could choose the role of leader, telling them all what to do next. Or the role of trader. Bartering with them for mutually beneficial trades. Their trade inventory could then randomly spawn things that the player might find useful but which wouldn't be of much use to them. And some things they build would depend on the materials you trade to them.
Maybe you choose the professor role or something like that. I could imagine an even less intrusive skills system developed in this way by making it so that the skill you earn from doing certain things does not actually do anything for you directly but increases your ability to pass on knowledge of your skill to npcs. And if you choose such a role the npcs then rely on you to teach them stuff before they can advance any further in their own progress.
Those are just some brainstorming examples.
minebook.me (Facebook for Minecraft)
ok I'll try to answer your questions Muncher..
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsWe already have sounds in the game triggered by events, how do you THINK voice acting would work? An event would trigger the sound file of a person talking, an event like, oh, i dunno, talking to a person?? Really muncher, if this question was any indication to how well you thought out the rest, I'll be very upset.
They worK in that they have specific terra types, like i posted; how do they work? how is that even a question. How does any of it work? Really dude, you're pissing me off now.
I believe this is the second time i have said that there wouldn't be large cities, unless Notch decided to make them that way, i said a FEW HOUSES could POSSIBLY spawn in groups OUTSIDE the 41 by 41 chunk area surrounding where you initially spawn when you first make the world.
Honestly bro, are you retarded? You're asking me how the NPCs wouldn't act like robots. Hey Notch, if you can figure out how to make NPCs act like humans instead of robots, you're wasting your time with Minecraft you should be making robots for the chinese.
How neighborly of you, and abusive, keep talking like that and you're getting the report button pushed.
The quests, if you READ THE POST, is just that, a dungeon with stuff in the bottom. Was I to call it a rumor and ask that rumors be added to the game? Use your head, "Quest" was the closest word to explain the idea.
Balance come with use, i can't balance something that isn't being tested, if you could do that you wouldn't need to balance it, because you could just make it right the first time.
You make absolutely no sense, first you say that you don't understand how it works, and now you say that you know how much code there would be. Which is it?
So suggest that it's too easy to get and that it should be made of diamonds, honestly, is suggestive collaboration so far out of your reach that you are oblivious to it?
I realize that you are stuck on the idea that you HAVE to gain levels to play the game, and that's your problem, you THINK you have to gain levels to play the game. Even though i have stated so many times, that levels give you nothing more than a happy bonus for having done it so much. It doesn't open up any progressive crafts, it doesn't make you uber warranting the grind. It's simply a happy bonus. Say it with me, nothing more than a bonus.
Cry Moar
Do you know what self-righteous means?
Some guy comes in here to take your side, never read the posts, never read the OP, didn't care about anything but siding with you, and I pointed out all of this. If i had to guess, you had one of your buddies come in to argue on your behalf and fake the vindication that you aren't getting here to bolster you and make you look like you have support, when clearly you do not. The plain and simple fact is that you, nor your friend, either read the material, are willing to agree to these ideas and will (and have) made up anything you could think of to make yourself sound justified, and if none of that is true, you just lack the ability to read and comprehend. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's pretty obvious when you continuously attempt to argue the same points over and over even though they were imagined by you.
Again and again we go over this, people don't like skills because it is a repetitive action one must take in order to progress in that profession, as you've encountered in numerous other games, so people see "skills" think "grind" (as you did) and say no no no no no. Having actually READ THE POST you would very soon realize that this is not the case with these "skills" so the whole premise for the opposition is baseless and mistaken. If you read the post on skills and think grind, you need to read it again, stop injecting your own personal prejudices and just read what I wrote.
I think what you are trying to say is that you don't like the "leveling", in that you don't like that your reaching a threshold results in a benefit, you want it to gradually increase, which is fine with me, make the benefit dynamic then, make the benefit a random bonus based on a percentage of maximum in ratio to the skill xp, checked each time you perform the action.
This is self explanatory, you've gotten your ass handed to you pretty much the whole time you've tried to flame.
blah blah blah
You don't get qualified, lol, you never will be qualified, no one is. We are all equals here, generally speaking, our opinions are no better than any others, and that's what you need to learn. I don't make judgments, about whether someone's opinion is right or wrong, I state my opinion for contrast. Pointing out obvious truths is not a judgment, when you have clearly not read the post, to say as much is not a judgment, it's an observation.
I mean that you speak only for yourself, no one else. Avoid using the word "we" when speaking of yourself, you did it to make it seem like you had people on your side in a clear effort to belittle me and to intimidate anyone else that might agree with me.
So I am many? The phrase you used was "you all". And again,
Obvious troll is obvious.
You tried to paint yourself as a victim when you said everyone was picking on you and calling you a troll, and while I'm nearly moved to tears at the thought that poor little muncher might be picked on by people for being a troll, I just can't quite squeeze out a tear for you. (I've already told you, any attempt to put me on my heels will result in the opposite happening.)
Repeating yourself, or raising your voice does not somehow magically validate your points, sorry, it doesn't work like that.
How does this matter to me? That someone else caved in and just let you rewrite their post for them? Is that what happened? You've offered exactly no compromise whatsoever. Show me it's possible to win your support by offering up intellectual contribution, collaborative compromise, or really anything more than "no, this sucks".
Actually, don't bother. You've had ample opportunity to do so. I'm through arguing in circles with you, this thread needs room for people that want to contribute.
Patch Notes, Ability to moderate your threads, Copper, Tin, Silver, Bronze, and Steel, Depth Increase, Layers in the ground of water/lava, Moar Forum Icons, Moar realistic ore veinsDoes this mean I trade logs for iron, or possibly diamond?
How am I supposed to know when you have'nt told me?
The problem with towns.
You say from the 20 to the 41 chunk is civilization.
Chunks are, (a quote from minepedia)
"They are 16 blocks wide, 16 blocks long, and 128 blocks deep."
That means on normal render distance, I would be able to see civilization from spawn.
Voice acting doesn't belong in minecraft. It just doesn't. If you think it does, your wrong and your playing the wrong game.
Your out-land sounded just like biomes, but impossible to code biomes. Notch has to code all of those things you want, such as map traps, avalanches, ship wrecks, flying mobs, volcanoes, and mountains. Then notch has to link this all to the NPCs that will mention each of these places for quests. Then, he has to code it so all of this is random and different for every map.
That is not possible. It's not.
You say there will only be a few houses, but here are all the buildings you say the player will be able to use.
Lumber shop
Masonry shop
Blacksmith's shop
Pub
Houses for the normal NPC's
Unless the city is only inhabited by a lumberjack, a stone mason, blacksmith, and a bar tender, I'm going to assume there will be 5 other "normal" npc's living in the city. ( I have to assume this because you never gave number of NPC's in the town in you post.)
That mean each of the 5 "normal" NPC's will have there own house.
That means there will be nine houses, more after the player arrives.
Nine houses with 3 shops, and a pub, is not a small village.
If a quest is just a trip into the mines to find a dungeon, why can't the player do that on their own? Why do you have to have the NPC's mention it.
You say you can't balance your own idea. I can't tell from your OP how the trading system will work, so how can I know it's balanced? maybe if you actually wrote out how things would work, instead of saying "Oh there should be trading" I would be able to better understand what your saying.
I'm not going to balance your idea for you. It's your idea you fix it. Your spawn device is too easy to get. Fix it on your own. You obviously don't want my help so why ask for it?
Ok, I'm going to do a complete run down of skills and why they suck.
TO start this, you need to understand how skill systems work.
Skill systems work on a theory called "skinner box theory" This theory was develops by Fredrick Skinner. His experiment was, put a pigeon in a box with a button. Every-time the pigeon pecked the button, the pigeon got food. This was ground breaking because it proved the pigeon made the connection between the button and the food, and that the pidgeon would Preform an action based on this connection.
Changing what choices a person or animal makes is called Operant conditioning.
That's the important part.
You see, skill levels use the same theory. They tell the player, "hey we'll give you a reward for doing this X amount of times" It may not be required, but the player will do it for the reward. The pigeon might not need the food to live, but the pigeon did it because the food tasted good. If doing something multiple times will make the player better in the game, Players will do it constantly and repetitively Even if it's not required. It still makes the player better, so they will continue to grind away at the level, even if they don't have too.
People will always grind levels even if it's not required. They will. That is a fact.
If You did'nt get this, Here is a place where it is better explained so maybe it will penetrate.
I've read the skill section thousands of times, and I still say it will bring about grinding.
You say I brought my buddies in to help argue my points. Actually, most of those people have had Ideas I have disliked, but they still thought your ideas were stupid.
You say you want to allow people to contribute, but every-time someone has given you something to fix or change you just tell them to read the OP again. It seems to me you just want people to praise your idea and not change any of it. You have offered less compromise then anyone else here.
Now you'll probably tell me i did'nt read the OP enough or just cry "troll" some more.
And for someone who says people say stuff with out reading, you obviously did'nt read the threads I gave you, because not one of them rewrote anything for me. They showed me how the idea would work and told me how they would blance things. You would have seen that if you had read. But you did'nt.