So 1.8 as we all know, changed the Enchanting Table interface to one that requires you to use Lapis Lazuli and also shows what Enchantment you would likely get. I, personally, am not a fan of the new enchanting system. It feels like cheating to know which Enchantment I get, and some people don't like trading with Villagers all the time just to get one that offers Lapis Lazuli or mine underground in hope that you would find some Lapis Lazuli, while other people like it that it gives Lapis an actual use and also shows which enchantment you'll likely get (Which as I said before, feels like cheating to me). That's why I came up with this idea, the Lapis Lazuli Enchanting Table!
What does it do?
It acts the same way as a 1.8 (And above) Enchanting Table, while the normal one acts like one before the 1.8 update (And its snapshots)! That way, both types of users (Those who prefer the 1.8 Enchanting System and those who prefer the pre-1.8 Enchanting System) can be happy.
How do you craft it?
See here:
You can use any kind of Enchanted Book for it. Ones used in the crafting of it with higher levels of enchantments (E.G. Sharpness V) will be more accurate to what enchantment you're going to get as apposed to weaker ones (E.G. Sharpness I).
What about Enchantment Tables already placed in the world?
They will become Lapis Lazuli Enchanting Tables, while the normal Enchanting Table can be crafted the same way as a normal one.
So there's my idea about how the Enchantment Table could be 'upgraded' for both types of users on the Enchanting Table systems. What do you think of it? Should I add more and whatnot? I can't think of anything more i need to explain about this idea, so feel free to support or criticize this idea if you want to, or something like that..
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This is one of those things that would only be added as a compromise to those who can't accept change. This would be like putting the pre-1.7 rose back in game, just to satisfy the Rose Red-Army.
No support.
Not really, I don't think so. That's just decor, this is gameplay for Enchanting methods.
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You want gameplay to be harder… what is wrong with you? It's not cheating if it's implemented content. Also seems a bit pointless.
It's still very much cheating to me to know what Enchantment I'll get, I prefer the randomness of it, and Minecraft's pretty easy for me, even on Hardcore mode.
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The old enchanting system was balanced by the fact that you can repair items forever - seriously, I've mined three quarters of a million blocks with one pickaxe and killed 50,000 mobs with one sword - something utterly impossible in 1.8 - I only had to grind to enchant once with my enchanting table gathering dust since then. Personally, that was a much bigger incentive to not die and lose your stuff than the new system, the increased XP costs notwithstanding, which hardly makes a difference anyway if you make at least two enchantments without dying, afterwards spending far less XP. Basically, it used to be "hard to enchant but you only need to do it once (unless you lose it)" and the new system is "easy to enchant but have to do it over and over".
Personally, I'd rather have a special rare enchantment (only in dungeons, etc, which prevents people from making XP grinders to get it) that allows you to repair items like the old system did, perhaps also just stop the prior work penalty from increasing instead of setting it to 2 and charging for one more operation when you apply it (i.e. if an item already costs 31 levels you'll just waste it as the prior work penalty would increase to 63, which is too expensive even if it wouldn't increase anymore - plus you would also be charged for the enchantments and item durability like the old system, so no repairing that maxed-out sword forever).
The new enchanting system (yes, I know some people are going to disagree with this) is much more efficient and a better thought out system. Those who feel that the previous version enchantment system is superior can play the previous versions. As stated above, implementing a completely new item just to satisfy those who can play the other version isn't a great idea.
No support
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That's... potentially worse. Adding back in gameplay element that was removed for balance reason is not a good idea.
To be fair, the new system is balanced even more poorly than the old system. To be unfair, nobody would use the standard enchanting table anyway with the lapis one available (since you save a TON of levels especially now that it's a bit harder to level up, and the lapis cost is meaningless both in the recipe and to actually enchant something).
Overall it's a bad solution and the new system should be patched up instead rather than this halfhearted attempt to fix a problem that's barely there.
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My favorite thing about enchanting discussions is that absolutely no one agrees on which system is better, and furthermore nobody agrees if the new system is more or less balanced.
My opinion is that while Anvil changes need to be made (set price on renaming items that doesn't add to the penalty and isn't more than 5 levels), non infinite tools is way more balanced. Sure you can only repair that Unb 3 Eff 3 Fortune 3 Pickaxe 6 times, but considering that is enough for 36k uses that means if you only mined Cobblestone (wasting the fortune 3 enchantment), if you smelt it into Stone you get enough XP to get from 0 to level 30 2.5 times, which is more than enough to repair the pickaxe those 6 times and enchant new gear.
If you play smart and only use a Fortune Pick on ore, you can potentially get a total of about 234000 experience if you use it right. That is enough to reach level 30 167 times before your pickaxe can no longer be repaired, plus the 2.2 Diamonds on average per ore with Fortune 3 gives you a potential over 70000 Diamonds with a single pick. How is that unfair other than "Infinite was better because they are infinite"?
The same goes for Swords. Take an Unb 3 Diamond Sword. Repairing 6 times gets you once again about 36k uses. Most common hostiles have enough HP where it takes 3 hits to kill them without jumping. That means you get about 12k mobs killed from a single sword with just Unbreaking on it, and if we say that mob is a Zombie, that means 5 XP per mob for 60k XP before you need a new sword, and that is only with Unbreaking and not considering how you can kill mobs faster by critting them.
So maybe I just don't see it, but I can't see how getting 30 levels 160+ times playing smart with the best pick or 45+ times playing poorly with a badly enchanted Diamond Sword is in any way unfair, other than just wanting infinite tools. If anything I would say my issue is that I am forced to enchant more than I need because I keep hitting level 30 so fast, and that the initial cost for enchantments in the new system should be doubled, if not tripled (just the levels, not the Lapis).
I do agree with TheMasterCaver where the old system was high entry cost but basically unlimited uses after unless you lose your tool, and the new system is cheaper entry but non infinite tools. That is a very accurate way of stating it. But taking into account that the game is a cakewalk for lots of people and the only way you die with no way to get your gear back is in PvP, Hardcore, or through sheer stupidity, I would say the old system is drastically less balanced, because there was little to no risk of ever losing those infinite tools.
No support. Just like with Hunger if you want to improve a system that was changed, base it off the best features of both systems, don't just revert it in a kneejerk reaction like they are the only two systems possible.
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My favorite thing about enchanting discussions is that absolutely no one agrees on which system is better, and furthermore nobody agrees if the new system is more or less balanced.
My opinion is that while Anvil changes need to be made (set price on renaming items that doesn't add to the penalty and isn't more than 5 levels), non infinite tools is way more balanced. Sure you can only repair that Unb 3 Eff 3 Fortune 3 Pickaxe 6 times, but considering that is enough for 36k uses that means if you only mined Cobblestone (wasting the fortune 3 enchantment), if you smelt it into Stone you get enough XP to get from 0 to level 30 2.5 times, which is more than enough to repair the pickaxe those 6 times and enchant new gear.
If you play smart and only use a Fortune Pick on ore, you can potentially get a total of about 234000 experience if you use it right. That is enough to reach level 30 167 times before your pickaxe can no longer be repaired, plus the 2.2 Diamonds on average per ore with Fortune 3 gives you a potential over 70000 Diamonds with a single pick. How is that unfair other than "Infinite was better because they are infinite"?
The same goes for Swords. Take an Unb 3 Diamond Sword. Repairing 6 times gets you once again about 36k uses. Most common hostiles have enough HP where it takes 3 hits to kill them without jumping. That means you get about 12k mobs killed from a single sword with just Unbreaking on it, and if we say that mob is a Zombie, that means 5 XP per mob for 60k XP before you need a new sword, and that is only with Unbreaking and not considering how you can kill mobs faster by critting them.
So maybe I just don't see it, but I can't see how getting 30 levels 160+ times playing smart with the best pick or 45+ times playing poorly with a badly enchanted Diamond Sword is in any way unfair, other than just wanting infinite tools. If anything I would say my issue is that I am forced to enchant more than I need because I keep hitting level 30 so fast, and that the initial cost for enchantments in the new system should be doubled, if not tripled (just the levels, not the Lapis).
I do agree with TheMasterCaver where the old system was high entry cost but basically unlimited uses after unless you lose your tool, and the new system is cheaper entry but non infinite tools. That is a very accurate way of stating it. But taking into account that the game is a cakewalk for lots of people and the only way you die with no way to get your gear back is in PvP, Hardcore, or through sheer stupidity, I would say the old system is drastically less balanced, because there was little to no risk of ever losing those infinite tools.
No support. Just like with Hunger if you want to improve a system that was changed, base it off the best features of both systems, don't just revert it in a kneejerk reaction like they are the only two systems possible.
Quite honestly, I see it as useful, since the newer system is just more stupid and godawful than the older one, but I do see your point in that there is no point in having both, although I would at least like it if Mojang added in the old enchanting system somewhere in the game.
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Quite honestly, I see it as useful, since the newer system is just more stupid and godawful than the older one, but I do see your point in that there is no point in having both, although I would at least like it if Mojang added in the old enchanting system somewhere in the game.
"More stupid and godawful."
Flawless counterargument. Could you explain what this means without insulting the 1.8 system?
This is one of those things that would only be added as a compromise to those who can't accept change. This would be like putting the pre-1.7 rose back in game, just to satisfy the Rose Red-Army.
No support.
Dude, the 3rd use for lapis is a new change, not an old one.
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
Quite honestly, I see it as useful, since the newer system is just more stupid and godawful than the older one, but I do see your point in that there is no point in having both, although I would at least like it if Mojang added in the old enchanting system somewhere in the game.
Yeah. Now when I try to use the new enchanting table, I can't get more than one enchantment. (And in my world, Lapis is pretty much extinct.)
Yeah. Now when I try to use the new enchanting table, I can't get more than one enchantment. (And in my world, Lapis is pretty much extinct.)
Um... you can get more than 1 enchantment. The enchantment table only shows the 1 guaranteed enchantment. You still have a chance to get more enchantments in addition (you just won't know what, if any).
Enchant a few more times and you'll see.
Lapis can be obtained from trading with villagers.
Um... you can get more than 1 enchantment. The enchantment table only shows the 1 guaranteed enchantment. You still have a chance to get more enchantments in addition (you just won't know what, if any).
Enchant a few more times and you'll see.
Lapis can be obtained from trading with villagers.
Eh. Probably just my bad luck.
Either way, I'll just stick to 1.7.10 if there's no mod.
And Cheeyev, Just use an auto-enchanter mod if nobody makes one.
I going to start of by saying no support, this would completely eleminate the point of the whole 1.8 enchanting fix, I like the current system much better.
And to those saying, 'I don't like knowing what I get, I liked the randomness of it'
Obviously you haven't played with 1.8 enchanting very much, yes, it tells you ONE of things you will get, but only one, the rest a still random just like before, and it makes it so you don't have to worry about getting something you absolutely hate, while still getting the random effect.
What does it do?
It acts the same way as a 1.8 (And above) Enchanting Table, while the normal one acts like one before the 1.8 update (And its snapshots)! That way, both types of users (Those who prefer the 1.8 Enchanting System and those who prefer the pre-1.8 Enchanting System) can be happy.
How do you craft it?
See here:
You can use any kind of Enchanted Book for it. Ones used in the crafting of it with higher levels of enchantments (E.G. Sharpness V) will be more accurate to what enchantment you're going to get as apposed to weaker ones (E.G. Sharpness I).
What about Enchantment Tables already placed in the world?
They will become Lapis Lazuli Enchanting Tables, while the normal Enchanting Table can be crafted the same way as a normal one.
So there's my idea about how the Enchantment Table could be 'upgraded' for both types of users on the Enchanting Table systems. What do you think of it? Should I add more and whatnot? I can't think of anything more i need to explain about this idea, so feel free to support or criticize this idea if you want to, or something like that..
Click on this spoiler to see mods and ideas that I support!
Not really, I don't think so. That's just decor, this is gameplay for Enchanting methods.
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That's... potentially worse. Adding back in gameplay element that was removed for balance reason is not a good idea.
No Support
Agreed.
I have no idea why it's worse. I like the old enchanting system better. it was more balanced for me as well. Using Lapis isn't balanced for me at all.
It's still very much cheating to me to know what Enchantment I'll get, I prefer the randomness of it, and Minecraft's pretty easy for me, even on Hardcore mode.
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Because
It would be a waste of stuff+
What kinds of upgrades?
Think this out before you POST
Personally, I'd rather have a special rare enchantment (only in dungeons, etc, which prevents people from making XP grinders to get it) that allows you to repair items like the old system did, perhaps also just stop the prior work penalty from increasing instead of setting it to 2 and charging for one more operation when you apply it (i.e. if an item already costs 31 levels you'll just waste it as the prior work penalty would increase to 63, which is too expensive even if it wouldn't increase anymore - plus you would also be charged for the enchantments and item durability like the old system, so no repairing that maxed-out sword forever).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
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Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
No support
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To be fair, the new system is balanced even more poorly than the old system. To be unfair, nobody would use the standard enchanting table anyway with the lapis one available (since you save a TON of levels especially now that it's a bit harder to level up, and the lapis cost is meaningless both in the recipe and to actually enchant something).
Overall it's a bad solution and the new system should be patched up instead rather than this halfhearted attempt to fix a problem that's barely there.
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ModeratorMy opinion is that while Anvil changes need to be made (set price on renaming items that doesn't add to the penalty and isn't more than 5 levels), non infinite tools is way more balanced. Sure you can only repair that Unb 3 Eff 3 Fortune 3 Pickaxe 6 times, but considering that is enough for 36k uses that means if you only mined Cobblestone (wasting the fortune 3 enchantment), if you smelt it into Stone you get enough XP to get from 0 to level 30 2.5 times, which is more than enough to repair the pickaxe those 6 times and enchant new gear.
If you play smart and only use a Fortune Pick on ore, you can potentially get a total of about 234000 experience if you use it right. That is enough to reach level 30 167 times before your pickaxe can no longer be repaired, plus the 2.2 Diamonds on average per ore with Fortune 3 gives you a potential over 70000 Diamonds with a single pick. How is that unfair other than "Infinite was better because they are infinite"?
The same goes for Swords. Take an Unb 3 Diamond Sword. Repairing 6 times gets you once again about 36k uses. Most common hostiles have enough HP where it takes 3 hits to kill them without jumping. That means you get about 12k mobs killed from a single sword with just Unbreaking on it, and if we say that mob is a Zombie, that means 5 XP per mob for 60k XP before you need a new sword, and that is only with Unbreaking and not considering how you can kill mobs faster by critting them.
So maybe I just don't see it, but I can't see how getting 30 levels 160+ times playing smart with the best pick or 45+ times playing poorly with a badly enchanted Diamond Sword is in any way unfair, other than just wanting infinite tools. If anything I would say my issue is that I am forced to enchant more than I need because I keep hitting level 30 so fast, and that the initial cost for enchantments in the new system should be doubled, if not tripled (just the levels, not the Lapis).
I do agree with TheMasterCaver where the old system was high entry cost but basically unlimited uses after unless you lose your tool, and the new system is cheaper entry but non infinite tools. That is a very accurate way of stating it. But taking into account that the game is a cakewalk for lots of people and the only way you die with no way to get your gear back is in PvP, Hardcore, or through sheer stupidity, I would say the old system is drastically less balanced, because there was little to no risk of ever losing those infinite tools.
No support. Just like with Hunger if you want to improve a system that was changed, base it off the best features of both systems, don't just revert it in a kneejerk reaction like they are the only two systems possible.
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Quite honestly, I see it as useful, since the newer system is just more stupid and godawful than the older one, but I do see your point in that there is no point in having both, although I would at least like it if Mojang added in the old enchanting system somewhere in the game.
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"More stupid and godawful."
Flawless counterargument. Could you explain what this means without insulting the 1.8 system?
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Dude, the 3rd use for lapis is a new change, not an old one.
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
Yeah. Now when I try to use the new enchanting table, I can't get more than one enchantment. (And in my world, Lapis is pretty much extinct.)
Um... you can get more than 1 enchantment. The enchantment table only shows the 1 guaranteed enchantment. You still have a chance to get more enchantments in addition (you just won't know what, if any).
Enchant a few more times and you'll see.
Lapis can be obtained from trading with villagers.
Eh. Probably just my bad luck.
Either way, I'll just stick to 1.7.10 if there's no mod.
And Cheeyev, Just use an auto-enchanter mod if nobody makes one.
And to those saying, 'I don't like knowing what I get, I liked the randomness of it'
Obviously you haven't played with 1.8 enchanting very much, yes, it tells you ONE of things you will get, but only one, the rest a still random just like before, and it makes it so you don't have to worry about getting something you absolutely hate, while still getting the random effect.
No support, this is a bad idea IMO.
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