The only thing that really gets me is the complexity. I mean, I understand that guns in general are far more complex than bows and swords, but it just doesn't quite feel like vanilla minecraft if the combat system is made too complex. I also find the head shot system kind of strange, as much sense as it makes, simply because of slimes and magma cubes (which are all head) and because of the enderdragon (which, as far as I know, has no hitbox on its head or neck). The slimes would be killed instantly, but it would be a bit annoying if someone's trying to use custom-sized slimes that have a large amount of health.
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The only thing that really gets me is the complexity. I mean, I understand that guns in general are far more complex than bows and swords, but it just doesn't quite feel like vanilla minecraft if the combat system is made too complex. I also find the head shot system kind of strange, as much sense as it makes, simply because of slimes and magma cubes (which are all head) and because of the enderdragon (which, as far as I know, has no hitbox on its head or neck). The slimes would be killed instantly, but it would be a bit annoying if someone's trying to use custom-sized slimes that have a large amount of health.
Yeah, I'm gonna change the way headshots work. And, it isn't any more complex than making potions, or enchanting.
Idk. Personally I have no issue with guns in Minecraft, but a lot of people do, so maybe we could avoid the mooshroom-crap storm by making it a crossbow or something instead of a musket.
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Consider that the same was thought about potions, enchanting, experience, villages, hoppers, horses..., so it wouldn´t make sense to switch it to something else just to avoid something that won´t really be there.
I meant people don't want guns because of the violent connotations (and yes I know how stupid that is, because Minecraft already has swords and bows, but many people think like this). What does that have to do with potions, enchanting, experience, or any of that other stuff?
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to be honest, i would remove the headshot system entirely. it doesn't really fit the feel to have to aim at a bodypart instead of just the general direction.
also the issue with slimes and the enderdragon seems to be a valid point. for the headshots to do more damage, you would have to make two seperate hitboxes for the head and the rest i think.
Well, then how do you expect critical hits to work? Shooting while falling doesn't make sense. Headshots are the only thing that make sense for critical hits to apply to the Musket.
I meant people don't want guns because of the violent connotations (and yes I know how stupid that is, because Minecraft already has swords and bows, but many people think like this). What does that have to do with potions, enchanting, experience, or any of that other stuff?
Like I've said before, as soon a someone uses a Musket to rob a bank, or in a school shooting, I may agree with you.
Well, then how do you expect critical hits to work? Shooting while falling doesn't make sense. Headshots are the only thing that make sense for critical hits to apply to the Musket.
Honestly I don't think headshots really work either. I don't like the idea of having to aim at a specific body part. Maybe have it to where you have to craft a new musket part to get crits? I dunno, maybe the musket just shouldn't even have crits. Just my suggestion though.
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Doesn't the fully charged bow count as a critical hit? If so, same concept here. A fully "drawn" musket results in a critical shot.
Headshots are possible (bukkit plugins have done this quite well), but the main caveat is defining the concept of what a "head" is. If we define it as we do in real life, we quickly run into issues relating to contingency. Zombies have heads. Players have heads. Spiders? Enderdragons? An amorphous blob with tentacle monster that a mod might add? Sure enough, we have two options. Recognise "head hitboxes" only on familiar models, but then mod support is nonexistent and vanilla mobs that aren't based on a humanoid model are shaky at best. Along with that, the musket's critical hit system would be contingent. It would do extra damage to skeletons or players, but not to slimes, and I don't like this inconsistency.
The second option is no headshots at all (see first statement). Headshots should be left up to Bukkit plugins and mods to discern.
Doesn't the fully charged bow count as a critical hit? If so, same concept here. A fully "drawn" musket results in a critical shot.
Headshots are possible (bukkit plugins have done this quite well), but the main caveat is defining the concept of what a "head" is. If we define it as we do in real life, we quickly run into issues relating to contingency. Zombies have heads. Players have heads. Spiders? Enderdragons? An amorphous blob with tentacle monster that a mod might add? Sure enough, we have two options. Recognise "head hitboxes" only on familiar models, but then mod support is nonexistent and vanilla mobs that aren't based on a humanoid model are shaky at best. Along with that, the musket's critical hit system would be contingent. It would do extra damage to skeletons or players, but not to slimes, and I don't like this inconsistency.
The second option is no headshots at all (see first statement). Headshots should be left up to Bukkit plugins and mods to discern.
Will something that doesn't technically have a brain, like a slime, really be affected in any way by a headshot vs a regular shot to anywhere else? That wouldn't even make sense, so that's not inconsistency, that's just logic. Same with Guardians, who have brains, but wouldn't really be affected differently by a headshot, so the point is the same. Spiders have heads, but the structure of their brain is totally different than that of a human, and so they aren't affected by headshots in real life.
Mod support would still be there, but mod creators would either need to design their own hitboxes, or leave their creatures without those extra hitboxes, and they would be treated the way they are now. Seriously, only the mobs who logically are affected by headshots need these hitboxes. That's not inconsistency at all.
I changed the way damage is done, but this may not be the final iteration of this damage system.
Also, I changed the Power Enchantment. It is now the same as the bow.
And I ended up changing the sound radius for mobs and players. If you look, it's only 32 blocks instead of 50, and Peaceful mobs run away 8 blocks instead of 15.
Will something that doesn't technically have a brain, like a slime, really be affected in any way by a headshot vs a regular shot to anywhere else? That wouldn't even make sense, so that's not inconsistency, that's just logic. Same with Guardians, who have brains, but wouldn't really be affected differently by a headshot, so the point is the same. Spiders have heads, but the structure of their brain is totally different than that of a human, and so they aren't affected by headshots in real life.
Mod support would still be there, but mod creators would either need to design their own hitboxes, or leave their creatures without those extra hitboxes, and they would be treated the way they are now. Seriously, only the mobs who logically are affected by headshots need these hitboxes. That's not inconsistency at all.
"That wouldn't even make sense, so that's not inconsistency, that's just logic."
Will something that doesn't have a brain be affected by a headshot? It should. Why not? Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it shouldn't be affected. Minecraft is pretty unrealistic. I made my point not from realism but from video game balance/consistency. It's inconsistent that some mobs should be affected by headshots, and other mobs shouldn't be. So it does make sense that a slime should be able to suffer some sort of "headshot" not in the sense that it got shot in the head, but in the sense that it got shot in some weak point that will make it take extra damage.
For example, why should a creeper take a headshot, but not a blaze? Is there some special attribute about blazes that sets it apart from all headshot-able mobs? Do blazes, chickens, ocelots, bats, squids, villagers, spiders, wolves, and et cetera have a reason to have some sort of unique defensive ability that allows them to resist headshots? Is there some balancing reason to this? To me, this kind of difference is arbitrary. Saying that it's a realistic distinction is equally arbitrary.
"Seriously, only the mobs who logically are affected by headshots need these hitboxes."
The response to this statement is my point in a nutshell. The operative word I want to focus on is "need". Why exactly do they need these hitboxes? Or rather, why do they need to be affected by headshots? What demands that one mob should be affected by headshots whereas others aren't?
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of headshots. I just want a non-arbitrary rule of what gets affected by headshots and what doesn't.
"That wouldn't even make sense, so that's not inconsistency, that's just logic."
Will something that doesn't have a brain be affected by a headshot? It should. Why not? Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it shouldn't be affected. Minecraft is pretty unrealistic. I made my point not from realism but from video game balance/consistency. It's inconsistent that some mobs should be affected by headshots, and other mobs shouldn't be. So it does make sense that a slime should be able to suffer some sort of "headshot" not in the sense that it got shot in the head, but in the sense that it got shot in some weak point that will make it take extra damage.
For example, why should a creeper take a headshot, but not a blaze? Is there some special attribute about blazes that sets it apart from all headshot-able mobs? Do blazes, chickens, ocelots, bats, squids, villagers, spiders, wolves, and et cetera have a reason to have some sort of unique defensive ability that allows them to resist headshots? Is there some balancing reason to this? To me, this kind of difference is arbitrary. Saying that it's a realistic distinction is equally arbitrary.
"Seriously, only the mobs who logically are affected by headshots need these hitboxes."
The response to this statement is my point in a nutshell. The operative word I want to focus on is "need". Why exactly do they need these hitboxes? Or rather, why do they need to be affected by headshots? What demands that one mob should be affected by headshots whereas others aren't?
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of headshots. I just want a non-arbitrary rule of what gets affected by headshots and what doesn't.
By your logic we don't need critical hits in the game at all. But they already are in the game, so if they apply to swords and bows, they need to apply to Muskets too. You can't shoot a Musket while falling in Minecraft, because of the aiming mode, so critical hits need to happen another way. This is where headshots come in. They are the only way I can think of for critical hits to happen with Muskets, and not seem stupid, unfitting or induce a "yeah right" reaction from players everywhere. Of course, if the Musket is implemented this way, headshots will need to apply to bows, too, but all that'll do is change the way critical hits happen for bows, not the critical hits themselves. Bows would still achieve criticals from shooting while falling, but they would also happen through headshots. Does this make sense to you?
Headshots need to happen for some mobs, but not apply to other mobs. If a slime is only a head, then do you only get headshots out of them, every time? No, that wouldn't work, and since they don't have brains, it doesn't make sense. Squids don't have brains either, so that doesn't make sense, and the same gameplay ruining factor applies. You just need to apply logic to help gameplay, or one mechanic can destroy itself.
By your logic we don't need critical hits in the game at all. But they already are in the game, so if they apply to swords and bows, they need to apply to Muskets too. You can't shoot a Musket while falling in Minecraft, because of the aiming mode, so critical hits need to happen another way. This is where headshots come in. They are the only way I can think of for critical hits to happen with Muskets, and not seem stupid, unfitting or induce a "yeah right" reaction from players everywhere. Of course, if the Musket is implemented this way, headshots will need to apply to bows, too, but all that'll do is change the way critical hits happen for bows, not the critical hits themselves. Bows would still achieve criticals from shooting while falling, but they would also happen through headshots. Does this make sense to you?
"By your logic we don't need critical hits in the game at all."
I don't quite understand. I was more making the claim that all or no mobs should be affected by headshots, seeing as all mobs are already affected by critical hits. My claim wasn't that headshots shouldn't be implemented, my claim was that headshots shouldn't be implemented ifand only if they don't apply equally to all mobs. Critical hits do apply equally to all mobs.
Also, I get a lot of my information from the Minecraft Wiki, so I made assumptions based off of that source. Whether it's correct or not is another question, but I believe what it has to say. I'll pull this entire snippet from their article on damage.
'Critical hits' are attacks that deal extra damage compared to regular attacks. Critical melee strikes, regardless of the weapon used, cause small star particles to fly out of the target who was critically hit. "Critical arrows", which occur when the bow is fired fully charged, leave a trail of the same small star particles as they fly through the air. Critical hits affect all damageable entities including players, mobs, paintings, boats and minecarts.
In melee, a critical hit occurs when a player attacks a mob while falling, not while jumping up. The attack deals 150% of the equipped item's base damage (before enchantments or armor are applied). This can be done by jumping. It can also be combined with sprinting to knock back the mob, although there is no extra knockback for a critical hit. The critical damage (before enchantments or armor are applied) depends on both the weapon/tool and its material (fists and arrows have no material).
"Critical arrows" occur when the bow is fired fully charged. In other words, a critical on a ranged weapon has nothing to do with falling down, it has to do with the bow's charge. In addition, the "fall down to score a critical" was mentioned for melee critical hits, and are thus boolean - you either score a critical or you don't. Criticals on the bow just indicate whether you fired at full charge or not, as the charge of a bow is a gradient and not boolean. You said that bows score a critical when you fire while falling, but that is not the case - not at least according to the Wiki. It could be wrong. I've seen incorrect information there before, but only on occasion.
In this light, muskets could be the same as the bow concerning "critical shots". An indicator that you've fired at full charge.
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Curse PremiumCan you explain why you think this? It helps when I'm trying to make it better.
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Curse PremiumYeah, I'm gonna change the way headshots work. And, it isn't any more complex than making potions, or enchanting.
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Curse PremiumAgreed. In hindsight, that part bugs me a lot more than the complexity does. Also, thanks to both of you for addressing my concerns!
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Curse PremiumTimeless Modding is kinda dead but idk what to put here now
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Curse PremiumI meant people don't want guns because of the violent connotations (and yes I know how stupid that is, because Minecraft already has swords and bows, but many people think like this). What does that have to do with potions, enchanting, experience, or any of that other stuff?
Timeless Modding is kinda dead but idk what to put here now
I occasionally make textures/models for random people. Contributed to: Tinker's Construct, Growthcraft, and Animals+
PixelQuest 2, my new 1.10 RPG/rougelike-inspired modpack, is coming soon!
Well, then how do you expect critical hits to work? Shooting while falling doesn't make sense. Headshots are the only thing that make sense for critical hits to apply to the Musket.
Like I've said before, as soon a someone uses a Musket to rob a bank, or in a school shooting, I may agree with you.
Honestly I don't think headshots really work either. I don't like the idea of having to aim at a specific body part. Maybe have it to where you have to craft a new musket part to get crits? I dunno, maybe the musket just shouldn't even have crits. Just my suggestion though.
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Curse PremiumHeadshots are possible (bukkit plugins have done this quite well), but the main caveat is defining the concept of what a "head" is. If we define it as we do in real life, we quickly run into issues relating to contingency. Zombies have heads. Players have heads. Spiders? Enderdragons? An amorphous blob with tentacle monster that a mod might add? Sure enough, we have two options. Recognise "head hitboxes" only on familiar models, but then mod support is nonexistent and vanilla mobs that aren't based on a humanoid model are shaky at best. Along with that, the musket's critical hit system would be contingent. It would do extra damage to skeletons or players, but not to slimes, and I don't like this inconsistency.
The second option is no headshots at all (see first statement). Headshots should be left up to Bukkit plugins and mods to discern.
Will something that doesn't technically have a brain, like a slime, really be affected in any way by a headshot vs a regular shot to anywhere else? That wouldn't even make sense, so that's not inconsistency, that's just logic. Same with Guardians, who have brains, but wouldn't really be affected differently by a headshot, so the point is the same. Spiders have heads, but the structure of their brain is totally different than that of a human, and so they aren't affected by headshots in real life.
Mod support would still be there, but mod creators would either need to design their own hitboxes, or leave their creatures without those extra hitboxes, and they would be treated the way they are now. Seriously, only the mobs who logically are affected by headshots need these hitboxes. That's not inconsistency at all.
Also, I changed the Power Enchantment. It is now the same as the bow.
And I ended up changing the sound radius for mobs and players. If you look, it's only 32 blocks instead of 50, and Peaceful mobs run away 8 blocks instead of 15.
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Curse Premium"That wouldn't even make sense, so that's not inconsistency, that's just logic."
Will something that doesn't have a brain be affected by a headshot? It should. Why not? Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it shouldn't be affected. Minecraft is pretty unrealistic. I made my point not from realism but from video game balance/consistency. It's inconsistent that some mobs should be affected by headshots, and other mobs shouldn't be. So it does make sense that a slime should be able to suffer some sort of "headshot" not in the sense that it got shot in the head, but in the sense that it got shot in some weak point that will make it take extra damage.
For example, why should a creeper take a headshot, but not a blaze? Is there some special attribute about blazes that sets it apart from all headshot-able mobs? Do blazes, chickens, ocelots, bats, squids, villagers, spiders, wolves, and et cetera have a reason to have some sort of unique defensive ability that allows them to resist headshots? Is there some balancing reason to this? To me, this kind of difference is arbitrary. Saying that it's a realistic distinction is equally arbitrary.
"Seriously, only the mobs who logically are affected by headshots need these hitboxes."
The response to this statement is my point in a nutshell. The operative word I want to focus on is "need". Why exactly do they need these hitboxes? Or rather, why do they need to be affected by headshots? What demands that one mob should be affected by headshots whereas others aren't?
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of headshots. I just want a non-arbitrary rule of what gets affected by headshots and what doesn't.
Sure it's more expensive, but having to reload it every shot is extremely tedious.
Just my view on this matter.
By your logic we don't need critical hits in the game at all. But they already are in the game, so if they apply to swords and bows, they need to apply to Muskets too. You can't shoot a Musket while falling in Minecraft, because of the aiming mode, so critical hits need to happen another way. This is where headshots come in. They are the only way I can think of for critical hits to happen with Muskets, and not seem stupid, unfitting or induce a "yeah right" reaction from players everywhere. Of course, if the Musket is implemented this way, headshots will need to apply to bows, too, but all that'll do is change the way critical hits happen for bows, not the critical hits themselves. Bows would still achieve criticals from shooting while falling, but they would also happen through headshots. Does this make sense to you?
Headshots need to happen for some mobs, but not apply to other mobs. If a slime is only a head, then do you only get headshots out of them, every time? No, that wouldn't work, and since they don't have brains, it doesn't make sense. Squids don't have brains either, so that doesn't make sense, and the same gameplay ruining factor applies. You just need to apply logic to help gameplay, or one mechanic can destroy itself.
The same can be said about the Wooden Pickaxe, but everyone uses that before they can get a Stone one, and later an Iron one.
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Curse Premium"By your logic we don't need critical hits in the game at all."
I don't quite understand. I was more making the claim that all or no mobs should be affected by headshots, seeing as all mobs are already affected by critical hits. My claim wasn't that headshots shouldn't be implemented, my claim was that headshots shouldn't be implemented if and only if they don't apply equally to all mobs. Critical hits do apply equally to all mobs.
Also, I get a lot of my information from the Minecraft Wiki, so I made assumptions based off of that source. Whether it's correct or not is another question, but I believe what it has to say. I'll pull this entire snippet from their article on damage.
"Critical arrows" occur when the bow is fired fully charged. In other words, a critical on a ranged weapon has nothing to do with falling down, it has to do with the bow's charge. In addition, the "fall down to score a critical" was mentioned for melee critical hits, and are thus boolean - you either score a critical or you don't. Criticals on the bow just indicate whether you fired at full charge or not, as the charge of a bow is a gradient and not boolean. You said that bows score a critical when you fire while falling, but that is not the case - not at least according to the Wiki. It could be wrong. I've seen incorrect information there before, but only on occasion.
In this light, muskets could be the same as the bow concerning "critical shots". An indicator that you've fired at full charge.