I have wanted transparent skins for a very long time.The problem though, is making them fair in PvP. Here are my thoughts on how it could work.
When you upload a skin, the system checks what percentage of it is transparent.
This has to be alpha channel transparency, Tallying the amount of transparency.
If it is more than 50% percent transparent,it will raise the alpha values of every non-opaque pixel, until the skin meets the 50% minimum.
Then the skin is saved to the skin server and thing proceed as usual.
For example: if somebody tried to upload a completely blank skin, they would ends up translucent, but visible.
Another example: If someone want to make a floating skin, 50% percent transparency would allow them to blank out their legs,making them 'float'
The transparency limit can be adjusted until it is fair, 50% is a rough first guess. Also some areas might count double, say transparent heads could be tricky because then you don't know where the player is looking.
I think this would allow much more creative freedom in skins, and be easily balanced.
Please upvote and critique, thank you for you attention.
EDIT: I like ThequoreeZ's suggestion enough that I am posting it here.
Quote from TheqoreeZ»How bout each individual piece of your skin (Arm, arm, leg, leg, body, head) can have individual numbers, 25% of each of those parts can be invisible, instead of the whole skin.
NOTE: The invisible skin thing is reminding me of the Savage Kantus smaller hit box thing in GoW 3.
I kind of agree with this, but I also kind of do not. There is no way to make a player transparent in ANY amount (without some kind of in game item that isn't permanent like Invisibility Potions) balanced. But I do have an alternative to your idea.
Instead, why not do it like this? Alpha channel is completely separate from RGB channels, so you can make a skin with color data and make it be invisible. So why not remove the 50% transparency limitation and instead make so your skin's alpha channel is ONLY visible to you? That way you can look completely invisible on your screen, but to everyone else you will have a normal skin.
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Is the mod rendering system system different than the one used for players? I know you can have partially transparent mobs.
I suppose that having it be client-side only would work, but the point of a skin in my mind, is what makes you stand out from the crowd.
with the transparency option it allows more ways to express yourself. But if only you can see it then you're talking to yourself.
Transparency in any amount is unfair in PVP, so I would like to suggest a different approach. Instead of allowing the entire skin to be transparent, why not allow the armor parts of the skin (the toggleable parts that go over your normal skin; helm, pant leg, etc) to be transparent but not the core of your skin.
I would support this approach. Giving an unfair advantage in PVP I do not support though, so I don't support this as it is mentioned in the OP.
Instead of allowing the entire skin to be transparent, why not allow the armor parts of the skin (the toggleable parts that go over your normal skin; helm, pant leg, etc) to be transparent but not the core of your skin.
This is already how it works, I think.
I like the idea of your skin's transparency being only visible to you, but you should be able to toggle showing transparency for other players on/off as well. This way, in non-PVP settings, you don't have to look at other skins with ugly black patches all over.
I like the idea of your skin's transparency being only visible to you, but you should be able to toggle showing transparency for other players on/off as well. This way, in non-PVP settings, you don't have to look at other skins with ugly black patches all over.
Maybe toggle transparency in server prefs instead of client settings? Could server prefs even affect skins?
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“You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” - Jack London
Whoop, sorry I was absent and missed this feedback!
Dormentality, How transparecny would you say is an issue? The most hackiest skin I can think of put all it's opaque pixels in the legs and makes them a green, so that it can hide in long grass. but even at 50% percent transparency the head, torso and arms would at least be translucent.
XDgrangerDX, that could work, but I would make it optional. So if you're on a casual/RP server it wouldn't intrude. Hmm, I suppose it depends on how intrusive the outlining actually is...
santast, I see no reason why it shouldn't. it just has to inform the client of whether it uses one set of rules or another for rendering skins. Skin's might look ugly with black holes, or colors that are used to be mostly transparent and are now jarringly bright, so maybe the client can choose to render skins as transparent or not, overriding the server setting?
P.S is there a protocol for thanking posts in your threads?
Whoop, sorry I was absent and missed this feedback!
Dormentality, How transparecny would you say is an issue? The most hackiest skin I can think of put all it's opaque pixels in the legs and makes them a green, so that it can hide in long grass. but even at 50% percent transparency the head, torso and arms would at least be translucent.
XDgrangerDX, that could work, but I would make it optional. So if you're on a casual/RP server it wouldn't intrude. Hmm, I suppose it depends on how intrusive the outlining actually is...
santast, I see no reason why it shouldn't. it just has to inform the client of whether it uses one set of rules or another for rendering skins. Skin's might look ugly with black holes, or colors that are used to be mostly transparent and are now jarringly bright, so maybe the client can choose to render skins as transparent or not, overriding the server setting?
P.S is there a protocol for thanking posts in your threads?
That could probably work. What still bothers me is what happens after the client says that skin transparency is disabled. Would it simply set the transparent pixels on the skin to be black or another default color?
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“You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” - Jack London
Uh, why don't we just make transparent skins against the rules on PVP servers? Or have someone there to judge whether it's acceptable to use a certain amount of transparency on a skin? It doesn't all have to be complex algorithms, you know.
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"Who am I? One name you might have for me is The World, or you might call me The Universe, or perhaps God, or prehaps the Truth. I am all and I am one, so of course this also means that I am you."
Uh, why don't we just make transparent skins against the rules on PVP servers? Or have someone there to judge whether it's acceptable to use a certain amount of transparency on a skin? It doesn't all have to be complex algorithms, you know.
Yes. Because all the PvP server owners will be so overjoyed to have another rule to enforce. And I'm sure every server has a person who constantly tracks everyone to judge their skins.
IMO the transparency shouldn't be 50%, otherwise I could just erase most of my upper half and be to some degree OP. Personally don't actually like the idea of transparent skins, there are no real ways to "balance" them out... Think the best you could shoot for would be to allow a degree of transparency but not enough to make it fully invisible.
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A man who dares to waste an hour of his life has not yet discovered the value of time. A man who dares waste ten hours of his life has obviously discovered the internet.
Yes. Because all the PvP server owners will be so overjoyed to have another rule to enforce. And I'm sure every server has a person who constantly tracks everyone to judge their skins.
IMO the transparency shouldn't be 50%, otherwise I could just erase most of my upper half and be to some degree OP. Personally don't actually like the idea of transparent skins, there are no real ways to "balance" them out... Think the best you could shoot for would be to allow a degree of transparency but not enough to make it fully invisible.
Well, is it really that hard to realize you're fighting someone invisible, say "hey admin this guys using an invisible skin" and then have that guy be taken out of the match? It doesn't exactly sound complicated. Look, transparent skins are a difficult concept in the first place, I'm just trying to see ways it could work.
Bottom line, we could make it so only the outside layer of a skin could be transparent.
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"Who am I? One name you might have for me is The World, or you might call me The Universe, or perhaps God, or prehaps the Truth. I am all and I am one, so of course this also means that I am you."
Well, is it really that hard to realize you're fighting someone invisible, say "hey admin this guys using an invisible skin" and then have that guy be taken out of the match? It doesn't exactly sound complicated. Look, transparent skins are a difficult concept in the first place, I'm just trying to see ways it could work.
Bottom line, we could make it so only the outside layer of a skin could be transparent.
Don't we already have that? I am thinking of all the skeletons and Atlas skin I have seen, that need transparency.
(Okay atlas would need more than 50% but you get my point.)
About the colors, PNG is RGBA colorspace so a transparent pixel is still transparent <color>.
An example skin that would be within budget would be a lich with a ribcage you could see through, and creepy eye by having the inner back of head layer be glowing orange, out side back of head a hood, and transparent eyes. Wouldn't that be great looking skin?
How bout each individual piece of your skin (Arm, arm, leg, leg, body, head) can have individual numbers, 25% of each of those parts can be invisible, instead of the whole skin.
NOTE: The invisible skin thing is reminding me of the Savage Kantus smaller hit box thing in GoW 3.
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My Avatar is a Dalek, therefor your argument is... EXTERMINATED!!!
You know who can tell me something I already know? Me. All the time. I'm really good at telling me stuff I already know. I don't need help in that department. I don't know about others, but I can't imagine I'm alone here.
How bout each individual piece of your skin (Arm, arm, leg, leg, body, head) can have individual numbers, 25% of each of those parts can be invisible, instead of the whole skin.
NOTE: The invisible skin thing is reminding me of the Savage Kantus smaller hit box thing in GoW 3.
Well, Minecraft is about expanding and creating an unlimited out-of-the-box cognitive environment. Putting a cap on things wouldn't help that. Server preferences could hold a certain percent of how transparent you want the parts to be. For example, a value of skinTransparency could equal 100%, making the users transparent tiles on skin 100% transparent. Transparency, however, can come in colors and variations of intensity. The intesity can be so high where you can't even see the tile or it can be so light you can barely see through the tile. With this in mind, controlling the percentage of intensity of transparency in server prefs can create an environment where it is PvP friendly and people can still keep their skins. Putting a cap on this will only strike a hard blow to the idea. If we want full control over transparency, give it to the owners of the server, which can be you or another person. If you don't agree with the transparency, you could either contact the server owner and demand a change or leave the server. Therefore, everyone is happy.
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“You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” - Jack London
The base layer supports no transparency, for a good reason; otherwise we'd have invisible players or simply troll faces floating around. The hat layer that covers the entire skin on the other hand, support transparency.
instead we have troll face surrounded by black. I think making our own player models would be so much cooler, we could add features in available otherwise such as horns or tails; though that sort of system would obviously be abused.
And we will always have in the community people who run around in troll face skins, it doesn't matter if they are grey or not, they just will.
I agree with the modeling system, but that would be incredibly easy to abuse.
so I proposed skin transparency instead.
I am really liking the transparency budget by body part idea.
I like this idea. It's been rather irritating to me for quite some time that I can't have skins that make me look like I'm floating around, or like I'm a skeleton with a transparent ribcage. While it's true that empty pairs of pants hiding in tall grass could be troublesome, that's simply a matter of having server settings that let them limit how much transparency is allowed.
When you upload a skin, the system checks what percentage of it is transparent.
This has to be alpha channel transparency, Tallying the amount of transparency.
If it is more than 50% percent transparent,it will raise the alpha values of every non-opaque pixel, until the skin meets the 50% minimum.
Then the skin is saved to the skin server and thing proceed as usual.
For example: if somebody tried to upload a completely blank skin, they would ends up translucent, but visible.
Another example: If someone want to make a floating skin, 50% percent transparency would allow them to blank out their legs,making them 'float'
The transparency limit can be adjusted until it is fair, 50% is a rough first guess. Also some areas might count double, say transparent heads could be tricky because then you don't know where the player is looking.
I think this would allow much more creative freedom in skins, and be easily balanced.
Please upvote and critique, thank you for you attention.
EDIT: I like ThequoreeZ's suggestion enough that I am posting it here.
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.
Instead, why not do it like this? Alpha channel is completely separate from RGB channels, so you can make a skin with color data and make it be invisible. So why not remove the 50% transparency limitation and instead make so your skin's alpha channel is ONLY visible to you? That way you can look completely invisible on your screen, but to everyone else you will have a normal skin.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I suppose that having it be client-side only would work, but the point of a skin in my mind, is what makes you stand out from the crowd.
with the transparency option it allows more ways to express yourself. But if only you can see it then you're talking to yourself.
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.
I would support this approach. Giving an unfair advantage in PVP I do not support though, so I don't support this as it is mentioned in the OP.
This is already how it works, I think.
I like the idea of your skin's transparency being only visible to you, but you should be able to toggle showing transparency for other players on/off as well. This way, in non-PVP settings, you don't have to look at other skins with ugly black patches all over.
Maybe toggle transparency in server prefs instead of client settings? Could server prefs even affect skins?
“You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” - Jack London
Watch me on twitch.tv/uraniuoxied !
Dormentality, How transparecny would you say is an issue? The most hackiest skin I can think of put all it's opaque pixels in the legs and makes them a green, so that it can hide in long grass. but even at 50% percent transparency the head, torso and arms would at least be translucent.
XDgrangerDX, that could work, but I would make it optional. So if you're on a casual/RP server it wouldn't intrude. Hmm, I suppose it depends on how intrusive the outlining actually is...
santast, I see no reason why it shouldn't. it just has to inform the client of whether it uses one set of rules or another for rendering skins. Skin's might look ugly with black holes, or colors that are used to be mostly transparent and are now jarringly bright, so maybe the client can choose to render skins as transparent or not, overriding the server setting?
P.S is there a protocol for thanking posts in your threads?
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.
That could probably work. What still bothers me is what happens after the client says that skin transparency is disabled. Would it simply set the transparent pixels on the skin to be black or another default color?
“You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” - Jack London
Watch me on twitch.tv/uraniuoxied !
Yes. Because all the PvP server owners will be so overjoyed to have another rule to enforce. And I'm sure every server has a person who constantly tracks everyone to judge their skins.
IMO the transparency shouldn't be 50%, otherwise I could just erase most of my upper half and be to some degree OP. Personally don't actually like the idea of transparent skins, there are no real ways to "balance" them out... Think the best you could shoot for would be to allow a degree of transparency but not enough to make it fully invisible.
A man who dares to waste an hour of his life has not yet discovered the value of time. A man who dares waste ten hours of his life has obviously discovered the internet.
Well, is it really that hard to realize you're fighting someone invisible, say "hey admin this guys using an invisible skin" and then have that guy be taken out of the match? It doesn't exactly sound complicated. Look, transparent skins are a difficult concept in the first place, I'm just trying to see ways it could work.
Bottom line, we could make it so only the outside layer of a skin could be transparent.
Don't we already have that? I am thinking of all the skeletons and Atlas skin I have seen, that need transparency.
(Okay atlas would need more than 50% but you get my point.)
About the colors, PNG is RGBA colorspace so a transparent pixel is still transparent <color>.
An example skin that would be within budget would be a lich with a ribcage you could see through, and creepy eye by having the inner back of head layer be glowing orange, out side back of head a hood, and transparent eyes. Wouldn't that be great looking skin?
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.
Yes. cause I totally spread gold bars on my toast...
NOTE: The invisible skin thing is reminding me of the Savage Kantus smaller hit box thing in GoW 3.
~yoshi9048
My best suggestion:
Mobs actually being varied???
Well, Minecraft is about expanding and creating an unlimited out-of-the-box cognitive environment. Putting a cap on things wouldn't help that. Server preferences could hold a certain percent of how transparent you want the parts to be. For example, a value of skinTransparency could equal 100%, making the users transparent tiles on skin 100% transparent. Transparency, however, can come in colors and variations of intensity. The intesity can be so high where you can't even see the tile or it can be so light you can barely see through the tile. With this in mind, controlling the percentage of intensity of transparency in server prefs can create an environment where it is PvP friendly and people can still keep their skins. Putting a cap on this will only strike a hard blow to the idea. If we want full control over transparency, give it to the owners of the server, which can be you or another person. If you don't agree with the transparency, you could either contact the server owner and demand a change or leave the server. Therefore, everyone is happy.
“You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.” - Jack London
Watch me on twitch.tv/uraniuoxied !
VIPERSSS, try reading the OP, I explain how I want to balance it so that at worst we get troll faces surrounded by nebulous gray bodies.
EDIT: partially inspired to make this post by the wraith skin here, second from left.
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.
I agree with the modeling system, but that would be incredibly easy to abuse.
so I proposed skin transparency instead.
I am really liking the transparency budget by body part idea.
https://highfidelity.io
Very exciting.