Let me explain a situation I went through in Minecraft not a long time ago that sets my opinion on cutscenes in Adminium:
I was exploring outside of my castle, and I see a small opening of a cave. I go inside, light it up, and see it's a giant mineshaft. I was excited, and I was going to head back to my base, grab materials, and safely climb down.
Nope. A creeper was right behind me when i turned around, he exploded and sent me flying into the shaft, and all my armor breaking, and I luckily only lost one heart, leaving me at 5.
I had only about 20 torches and a porkchop. I used the porkchop to heal myself and the torches to light up the area around me. After lighting up one area, I discovered there were a ton (at least 20) enemies in this one opening, and they all started attacking me.
I ran to a small cavern lit by a lava pool, closed it up, and sat there for a while. I was in the middle of the Earth with no sword, no bow, no torches, no porkchops, a half destroyed diamond pickaxe, and about 20 mobs outside ready to murder me.
My exploring had got me about 7 iron and some coal, and I knew I needed to get out. So I did the only reasonable thing to do. But first I needed a torch. So I ran outside of my safe zone, grabbed a torch, barely dodged a creeper explosion, and got back to somewhat safety.
I mined myself a staircase up, using the only torch I had as a source of light. I hit water, and swam up to the surface when it was about dawn. I was completely happy, but I wasn't safe yet.
I had no idea where my house was, and the area around me is unfamiliar. So I got some sticks, made some torches, and lived in a cave for a Minecraft week looking for redstone to make a compass. I found some redstone, made a compass and a boat, sailed for about a few minutes, and I finally got to my house.
That experience was perhaps the greatest thing I ever went through in Minecraft.
Now if some of these moments were replaced with generic cutscenes everyone else has/will seen, I wouldn't enjoy it as much.
Minecraft is a world which is literally your world. You can do whatever you want with it, from having a giant garden to a skull fortress that cries lava. Your experiences and what you do changes what kind of game Minecraft is for you.
Now, how would you feel if whatever experiences you had, you knew that whatever cutscene you got for it, everyone else will get it too?
Cutscenes ruin the uniqueness and the pure unrefined sandbox feeling Minecraft has.
I despise the idea of cutscenes in this game and I always will.
It will be able to be toggled.
And then Notch can implement gameplay features that cause random framerate drops, 3d mode toggling, forest fires, screen jarring, and really long load times. I mean, that would be fine as long as it can be toggled, right?
Let me explain a situation I went through in Minecraft not a long time ago that sets my opinion on cutscenes in Adminium:
I was exploring outside of my castle, and I see a small opening of a cave. I go inside, light it up, and see it's a giant mineshaft. I was excited, and I was going to head back to my base, grab materials, and safely climb down.
Nope. A creeper was right behind me when i turned around, he exploded and sent me flying into the shaft, and all my armor breaking, and I luckily only lost one heart, leaving me at 5.
I had only about 20 torches and a porkchop. I used the porkchop to heal myself and the torches to light up the area around me. After lighting up one area, I discovered there were a ton (at least 20) enemies in this one opening, and they all started attacking me.
I ran to a small cavern lit by a lava pool, closed it up, and sat there for a while. I was in the middle of the Earth with no sword, no bow, no torches, no porkchops, a half destroyed diamond pickaxe, and about 20 mobs outside ready to murder me.
My exploring had got me about 7 iron and some coal, and I knew I needed to get out. So I did the only reasonable thing to do. But first I needed a torch. So I ran outside of my safe zone, grabbed a torch, barely dodged a creeper explosion, and got back to somewhat safety.
I mined myself a staircase up, using the only torch I had as a source of light. I hit water, and swam up to the surface when it was about dawn. I was completely happy, but I wasn't safe yet.
I had no idea where my house was, and the area around me is unfamiliar. So I got some sticks, made some torches, and lived in a cave for a Minecraft week looking for redstone to make a compass. I found some redstone, made a compass and a boat, sailed for about a few minutes, and I finally got to my house.
That experience was perhaps the greatest thing I ever went through in Minecraft.
Now if some of these moments were replaced with generic cutscenes everyone else has/will seen, I wouldn't enjoy it as much.
Minecraft is a world which is literally your world. You can do whatever you want with it, from having a giant garden to a skull fortress that cries lava. Your experiences and what you do changes what kind of game Minecraft is for you.
Now, how would you feel if whatever experiences you had, you knew that whatever cutscene you got for it, everyone else will get it too?
Cutscenes ruin the uniqueness and the pure unrefined sandbox feeling Minecraft has.
I despise the idea of cutscenes in this game and I always will.
It will be able to be toggled.
If so many people oppose the idea that it needs to be toggle-able, do you really think it's good enough to be in the game?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
steevo15 said: The argument that "Oh it is toggleable, if you don't like it don't use it" is an invalid argument. The content that a creator puts in a game, toggleable or not, makes a statement about what type of game it is, and what type of game he or she intends for it to be, and also plays into the feel of the game. Although I cannot speak for him, I personally don't think notch intends for this to be a cutesy, cheesy game, and most other people (that I know at least) do not view it as such.
Once again, the argument that "it's toggle able" doesn't hold any water. If you are going to make a WHOLE FEATURE toggle able, that means that it isn't liked enough to implement into the game. This is what mods are for, they don't say anything about the game, it's original ideas or intentions, because they aren't created by the original producer of the game.
Nope, I'm ignoring your point of "Just don't use it" because it's a flawed cop out argument that diminishes the worth of the idea instead of adding to it.
When you say "just don't use it" your admitting there is a reason someone would not want o use your idea, which shows that your idea is flawed, therefor showing this idea is bad.
The don't use it argument is a cop out idea and doesn't support any idea just diminishes from it so stop using it.
this is one of the most idiot comments i've ever seen...
i'm italian and i can't totally understand you but i think you said that if someone don't like an idea, it's a bad idea
now, there are THOUSANDS of idiots who don't like the idea of minecraft
and THOUSANDS of people who don't like magic, or achievement or an adventure mod or cutscenes
and we say:"if you don't ilke minecraft don't play minecraft"
but you said that if someone didn't like an idea is a bad idea and we shouldn't use it
and if i didn't like the idea of breathe?
if you are right:minecraft is sh*t, every idea is sh*t, breathe is sh*t, and you are a sh*t
have a nice day...
That's not how you design games. You don't toss every idea everyone has into a huge messy pile and say "Ok just use what you want to use!" You choose the best ideas that everyone wants, that fits in your game. Cut-scenes are not any of there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
That's not how you design games. You don't toss every idea everyone has into a huge messy pile and say "Ok just use what you want to use!" You choose the best ideas that everyone wants, that fits in your game. Cut-scenes are not any of there.
the the developers should have an idea of what minecraft will look like when it will be finished AND add ideas which fit the look of the finished game
i didn't say:yeah put magic and future and ents and better light and girls and colonies and blablablablablabla
but you are trying to kill almost EVERY idea of this forum
I definitely agree with muncher here. the argument "it will be toggle-able" is not a valid argument for putting in a bad idea.
Also, another problem with cutscenes, in case you don't think it's a bad idea yet:
there are two kinds of cutscenes. In the first kind, the cutscene is always exactly the same, regardless of where it occurs. Say Notch filmed a character, I don't know, placing their first crafting bench. If, in the game, the area looked different from the area he recorded it on, it would confuse the players: if they were in a cavern, why did the cutscene suddenly jump to a forest? This would also make it appear that the player was using a default skin, regardless of the actual skin.
The other kind of cutscene is more versatile: The camera focuses on the player, wherever they are, and films like that. However, if there happens to be a tree on the wrong side of the player when the cutscene occurs, you're forced to stare at a tree for 10 seconds while your character wonders at their bench. In a game like minecraft, where there's no telling where all these events occur, it will frustrate players to no end if they have to stare at a wall every time they do something special, and then have to do it again when they start their next game.
IMHO, move this thread to the Modding forum as a request.
how about another one for "boom" where after u have slain your first creeper a cutscene starts where the camera zooms out and another creeper(just for the scene not really there after cut scene) pokes out from behind and u turn around and both u and the creeper look at each other (your eyes open wide)then u run away in a humorous walk(like the walk in minecraft classic).
Edit:i also agree with Boothk about the gallery idea
why did evrybody start growing crazy after i said it would be toggleable?
Anyways....
A lot of people unlike some of you guys DO like this idea. The fact that it would be toggleable would make everybody sort of happy. Those ones that DO want it will get it. The ones that DON'T want it will click a button and done. It.is.gone.from.them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I USED TO BE EPICJOE! I HAVE A dA! epikjoe . deviantart. com And remember, I KNOW don't click this link...
A lot of people unlike some of you guys DO like this idea. The fact that it would be toggleable would make everybody sort of happy. Those ones that DO want it will get it. The ones that DON'T want it will click a button and done. It.is.gone.from.them.
Once again, The content that a creator puts in a game, toggleable or not, makes a statement about what type of game it is, and what type of game he or she intends for it to be, and also plays into the feel of the game. I don't think that Notch, or anyone I have talked to about minecraft feel that it is a cheesy, cutsey game, which is the feel that these cutscenes would give. If you are going to make a whole feature toggleable, it shouldn't be in the game.
A lot of people unlike some of you guys DO like this idea. The fact that it would be toggleable would make everybody sort of happy. Those ones that DO want it will get it. The ones that DON'T want it will click a button and done. It.is.gone.from.them.
Once again, The content that a creator puts in a game, toggleable or not, makes a statement about what type of game it is, and what type of game he or she intends for it to be, and also plays into the feel of the game. I don't think that Notch, or anyone I have talked to about minecraft feel that it is a cheesy, cutsey game, which is the feel that these cutscenes would give. If you are going to make a whole feature toggleable, it shouldn't be in the game.
in that case, all FPS games should have this
1 gun
no fighting
no moving
etc.
i mean, technically, you do toggle it, right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Paranoid: Moderate. Schizoid: Moderate. Schizotypal: High. Antisocial: Low. Borderline: Low. Histrionic: Moderate. Narcissistic: Moderate. Avoidant: Moderate. Dependent: Moderate. Obsessive-Compulsive: High. Does this make me nuts?
A lot of people unlike some of you guys DO like this idea. The fact that it would be toggleable would make everybody sort of happy. Those ones that DO want it will get it. The ones that DON'T want it will click a button and done. It.is.gone.from.them.
Once again, The content that a creator puts in a game, toggleable or not, makes a statement about what type of game it is, and what type of game he or she intends for it to be, and also plays into the feel of the game. I don't think that Notch, or anyone I have talked to about minecraft feel that it is a cheesy, cutsey game, which is the feel that these cutscenes would give. If you are going to make a whole feature toggleable, it shouldn't be in the game.
in that case, all FPS games should have this
1 gun
no fighting
no moving
etc.
i mean, technically, you do toggle it, right?
No there is never in shooters "do you want to toggle this gun or not" Different guns give players different choices on how to approach a problem. There is a difference between choice and toggle.
as I've said before, If an idea needs to be toggle-able to be in a game, it's not good enough to be in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
No there is never in shooters "do you want to toggle this gun or not" Different guns give players different choices on how to approach a problem. There is a difference between choice and toggle.
as I've said before, If an idea needs to be toggle-able to be in a game, it's not good enough to be in the game.
smooth lighting is toggle-able...
so you think it sucks
or is it an exception?
that's totally different. Smooth lighting is togglable because it's a prototype and may cause problems on different machines, extra CPU usage, possibly mod incompatibility, etc.
If something is a good idea, sure, make it togglable, just in case it has problems (lighting engines can have a lot of problems), or someone's in the mood for a slightly different game (just because I sometimes want to play on peaceful, to build something free of monsters, doesn't mean that monsters were a shitty idea). But togglable is not an excuse to put in a bad idea.
No there is never in shooters "do you want to toggle this gun or not" Different guns give players different choices on how to approach a problem. There is a difference between choice and toggle.
as I've said before, If an idea needs to be toggle-able to be in a game, it's not good enough to be in the game.
smooth lighting is toggle-able...
so you think it sucks
or is it an exception?
that's totally different. Smooth lighting is togglable because it's a prototype and may cause problems on different machines, extra CPU usage, possibly mod incompatibility, etc.
If something is a good idea, sure, make it togglable, just in case it has problems (lighting engines can have a lot of problems), or someone's in the mood for a slightly different game (just because I sometimes want to play on peaceful, to build something free of monsters, doesn't mean that monsters were a shitty idea). But togglable is not an excuse to put in a bad idea.
"good" and "bad" are relative to the person
"works" and "broken" are real
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Paranoid: Moderate. Schizoid: Moderate. Schizotypal: High. Antisocial: Low. Borderline: Low. Histrionic: Moderate. Narcissistic: Moderate. Avoidant: Moderate. Dependent: Moderate. Obsessive-Compulsive: High. Does this make me nuts?
No there is never in shooters "do you want to toggle this gun or not" Different guns give players different choices on how to approach a problem. There is a difference between choice and toggle.
as I've said before, If an idea needs to be toggle-able to be in a game, it's not good enough to be in the game.
smooth lighting is toggle-able...
so you think it sucks
or is it an exception?
I don't see how Smooth lighting effects gameplay. Things that don't effect gameplay (graphics, sound, lighting) are all ok to be toggle-able, and may be necessary if the computer a person is running is sub-par.
Saying something like cut scenes (something that effects gameplay, and effects the tone of the game) and graphic options are subject to the same rules is so utterly wrong it's funny.
If an idea is opposed by enough people it needs to be toggle-able to satisfy people, then it shouldn't be in the game at all. You can't take every gameplay element and make it toggle-able. It makes the game feel like a unstructured mess of mechanics and items, not a tight well designed game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
I think the idea of cutscenes would reduce replayability because you're reminded every time you start a new world that this your first this and that. The fact that you could be anywhere when the cutscene happens poses a problem because your character would not be able to move. What if you happen to be completely surroudned by lava and they start jumping around? What about the camera? The camera would have to know where a good angle on the focus is. It seems a bit too complicated with very little return on investment.
I wouldn't say the cutscenes are necessarily bad - it might break the mood if used in-game. But nobody seems to have any views on what I said about making unlockable cutscenes/videos in a gallery/extras area of the game?
My only problem with that is it would feel tacked on and unnecessary. But If this had to be implemented it would be the least intrusive way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
And then Notch can implement gameplay features that cause random framerate drops, 3d mode toggling, forest fires, screen jarring, and really long load times. I mean, that would be fine as long as it can be toggled, right?
If so many people oppose the idea that it needs to be toggle-able, do you really think it's good enough to be in the game?
Once again, the argument that "it's toggle able" doesn't hold any water. If you are going to make a WHOLE FEATURE toggle able, that means that it isn't liked enough to implement into the game. This is what mods are for, they don't say anything about the game, it's original ideas or intentions, because they aren't created by the original producer of the game.
That's not how you design games. You don't toss every idea everyone has into a huge messy pile and say "Ok just use what you want to use!" You choose the best ideas that everyone wants, that fits in your game. Cut-scenes are not any of there.
I definitely agree with muncher here. the argument "it will be toggle-able" is not a valid argument for putting in a bad idea.
Also, another problem with cutscenes, in case you don't think it's a bad idea yet:
there are two kinds of cutscenes. In the first kind, the cutscene is always exactly the same, regardless of where it occurs. Say Notch filmed a character, I don't know, placing their first crafting bench. If, in the game, the area looked different from the area he recorded it on, it would confuse the players: if they were in a cavern, why did the cutscene suddenly jump to a forest? This would also make it appear that the player was using a default skin, regardless of the actual skin.
The other kind of cutscene is more versatile: The camera focuses on the player, wherever they are, and films like that. However, if there happens to be a tree on the wrong side of the player when the cutscene occurs, you're forced to stare at a tree for 10 seconds while your character wonders at their bench. In a game like minecraft, where there's no telling where all these events occur, it will frustrate players to no end if they have to stare at a wall every time they do something special, and then have to do it again when they start their next game.
IMHO, move this thread to the Modding forum as a request.
Edit:i also agree with Boothk about the gallery idea
Anyways....
A lot of people unlike some of you guys DO like this idea. The fact that it would be toggleable would make everybody sort of happy. Those ones that DO want it will get it. The ones that DON'T want it will click a button and done. It.is.gone.from.them.
don't click this link...
Once again, The content that a creator puts in a game, toggleable or not, makes a statement about what type of game it is, and what type of game he or she intends for it to be, and also plays into the feel of the game. I don't think that Notch, or anyone I have talked to about minecraft feel that it is a cheesy, cutsey game, which is the feel that these cutscenes would give. If you are going to make a whole feature toggleable, it shouldn't be in the game.
in that case, all FPS games should have this
1 gun
no fighting
no moving
etc.
i mean, technically, you do toggle it, right?
No there is never in shooters "do you want to toggle this gun or not" Different guns give players different choices on how to approach a problem. There is a difference between choice and toggle.
as I've said before, If an idea needs to be toggle-able to be in a game, it's not good enough to be in the game.
that's totally different. Smooth lighting is togglable because it's a prototype and may cause problems on different machines, extra CPU usage, possibly mod incompatibility, etc.
If something is a good idea, sure, make it togglable, just in case it has problems (lighting engines can have a lot of problems), or someone's in the mood for a slightly different game (just because I sometimes want to play on peaceful, to build something free of monsters, doesn't mean that monsters were a shitty idea). But togglable is not an excuse to put in a bad idea.
"good" and "bad" are relative to the person
"works" and "broken" are real
I don't see how Smooth lighting effects gameplay. Things that don't effect gameplay (graphics, sound, lighting) are all ok to be toggle-able, and may be necessary if the computer a person is running is sub-par.
Saying something like cut scenes (something that effects gameplay, and effects the tone of the game) and graphic options are subject to the same rules is so utterly wrong it's funny.
If an idea is opposed by enough people it needs to be toggle-able to satisfy people, then it shouldn't be in the game at all. You can't take every gameplay element and make it toggle-able. It makes the game feel like a unstructured mess of mechanics and items, not a tight well designed game.
My only problem with that is it would feel tacked on and unnecessary. But If this had to be implemented it would be the least intrusive way.