Good so far! I'm surprised to find a gun suggestion for Minecraft that I actually like.
Um. It still seems OP to me, not because of the cost of ammunition but because of the unlimited fire rate. I don't know about you, but I can moderately fast. I can average between 5-6 clicks per second without changing how I hold the mouse (I can get it faster if I'm serious). That is 20 - 24 damage PER SECOND. The Enderdragon would die in 10 seconds (50 uses). The Wither in 15 if the Wither Armor effect didn't account for bullets, but you'd get it to that state in 7.5 seconds. An enemy player in full diamond armor could potentially go down in 5.
I think the pistol needs further drawbacks. I suggest:
-The flintlock pistol is somewhat inaccurate thereby reducing it's effective range to about 20 blocks real flintlock pistols had this problem [reference]. The key point from that link is that rounds from a smooth bore barrel are kind of like a curveball, so the path of a bullet fired from a flintlock pistol in minecraft should be curved slightly in a random direction (still affected by gravity) thus reducing the effective accuracy of the weapon.
-There be a "charge time" for the pistol similarly to the bow, however, unlike the bow which increases damage when charging the pistol instead increases accuracy. It's more or less taking the time to aim properly and can be much shorter than the bow's charge time. Right clicking with the pistol in hand moves the pistol such that you're looking down the sight, releasing the right mouse button releases the bullet. You can rapid fire the pistol and the bullets will travel at the same speed and cause the same damage as always, but you're basically shooting from the hip, and your odds of hitting a specific target go way down.
-Recoil. It's a gun. It has recoil. You'll have to re-aim for every shot. If you want accurate fire that is.
-The pistol is LOUD and can be heard from very far away.
-Animals panic and run from the sound of gun fire as if they are under attack. Not really balance related but I think it would be cool.
-The sound of gunfire alerts and enrages all pigmen in range of the sound. The logic behind this is that they know you have gold nuggets for bullets and they want them.
Implementing my top two suggestions would make the pistol a very deadly mid range weapon if you happen to be standing within a few blocks of a player then a pistol is logically and realistically instant or near instant death (depending on their armor situation). However if they can escape to over 20 blocks away they can be moderately safe, unless they are just unlucky.
In this way a pistol can not only be a new kind of weapon in minecraft (an uncraftable one no less) but it would have new mechanics to boot and be a much more interesting addition to Vanilla Minecraft.
-Animals panic and run from the sound of gun fire as if they are under attack. Not really balance related but I think it would be cool.
-The sound of gunfire alerts and enrages all pigmen in range of the sound. The logic behind this is that they know you have gold nuggets for bullets and they want them.
I would just like to say how much I love these two suggestions, especially that last one. With the right balancing/pros and cons, I can see this as being a viable addition to Minecraft. I will go with partial support for now.
Flintlock pistols have also come up here and there on this forum. I wouldn't be so quick to say that most of those who don't want any guns in the game are just selfishly wanting Minecraft to be how they want it... If the game started out with old-style guns, no one would complain that a flintlock pistol didn't fit.
An idea being balanced also doesn't mean it's vanilla worthy.
I never meant to imply that all people who dislike the idea of flintlock pistols/guns are dumb, I was saying that a good chunk of them say that guns are not suited for Minecraft. While I can see your argument, I personally think guns would fit in well.
Bad wording on my part.
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Pointing out fallacies to undermine an argument is also a fallacy...
A flintlock pistol should not and could no be semi-automatic. But that doesn't really matter, since Minecraft is supposed to have a medieval feel to it. A pistol wouldn't fit in. I think the idea was pretty good, but sadly it just doesn't fit in vanilla.
I support. I don't care what people think minecraft should be. That's not what minecraft is. Never was. It's just has the features the developers choose to add.
I would change the mechanics a bit though:
Gold? Sorry, but no. Just doesn't make sense. There's better ways to balance op-ness
If it's manually reloaded it's more realistic and it prevents them from being op. If you have to reload every shot, you won't be shooting often. I think reloading should be as above. but i tiny bit simpler. maybe a shapeless recipe: unloaded gun, iron ingot(or something else), gunpowder(maybe not?). Manually reloading will take about 6-10 seconds, less if your good at it.
Damage should be more than 4(2hearts) especially if you have to manually reload. At least 8(4hearts) maybe more. I think 12(6hearts) would be good. Something that's high enough to be useful but low enough to avoid op. It would have to balance with the fact that guns need to be manually reloaded.
Anyways, I hope they add this. And they probably will eventually. But not for awhile. probably in 1.10-1.12.
Guns are mocked because a lot of people on here have some irrational vision of what THEY want Minecraft to be.
The same could be said for those who want items added in to Minecraft. And if they don't get added in, people tend to throw a fit over it.
It has ben stated many times in this thread and others which revolve around guns that Guns do not belong in Minecraft because they would ruin the feel of Minecraft. Regardless of how balanced they would be.
To all those people saying "This is OP because it fires as fast as you click!": No, not really. Mercy invincibility is a thing. You may be able to click five or six times per second, but that won't make a difference because after the first hit mercy invincibility will kick in and make the rest of those shots do nothing. If it weren't there, swords (which also swing as fast as you click; the animation is only for show) would practically instakill if you clicked fast enough, as would bows have pre-ß1.8 (since, let's face it, these pistols are pre-ß1.8 bows with a new coat of paint).
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Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
First off, I partially support. However, this idea needs some revisions. First and foremost, the firing speed. As fast as you can click? That's ridiculous! It should charge like a bow, except it requires full charge to fire and it takes a bit longer. Second, more damage. Maybe 6-7 hearts? If these changes are made, then I fully support.
what about swords? you can swing them as fast as you can click.
1. It must have craft-able munition (gold nugget and gunpowder)
2.It must fire just 1 bullet I TOTALLY DISAGREEwith your idea of firing as fast as you click "ITS A OLD FLINT PISTOL NOT A GLOCK OR TEC-9"
3.It must have more damage then arrows like 3x but a very very long reload time.
This 3 things would balance it out and make it more unique (and in some way more realistically) cause Flint pistols where used as fire and "trow away" weapons cause you wouldn't have a half minute to reload it on the battlefield
yep, I did my homework on this, I know all about it.
A musketeer from ye olden days was expected to fire 6 rounds per minuet. a minecraft minuet is 0.83 seconds
Guns have ben suggested many times and turned down because they would ruin Minecraft. It's also the most thing said in the "things that would ruin Minecraft" thread. People just don't want to see guns in Minecraft.
If you don't like new toys, then whatever you do, do not play the snapshots.
A flintlock pistol should not and could no be semi-automatic. But that doesn't really matter, since Minecraft is supposed to have a medieval feel to it. A pistol wouldn't fit in. I think the idea was pretty good, but sadly it just doesn't fit in vanilla.
To all those people saying "This is OP because it fires as fast as you click!": No, not really. Mercy invincibility is a thing. You may be able to click five or six times per second, but that won't make a difference because after the first hit mercy invincibility will kick in and make the rest of those shots do nothing. If it weren't there, swords (which also swing as fast as you click; the animation is only for show) would practically instakill if you clicked fast enough, as would bows have pre-ß1.8 (since, let's face it, these pistols are pre-ß1.8 bows with a new coat of paint).
Wow! thanks for enlightening us, I never knew about that.
6-7 hearts isn't balanced even with a long reload time. Still ridiculously OP. If you play Pokemon, it's like saying Hyper Beam/ Solar Beam is not powerful because of the recharge/charge time. Still OP nonetheless.
6-7 hearts isn't balanced even with a long reload time. Still ridiculously OP. If you play Pokemon, it's like saying Hyper Beam/ Solar Beam is not powerful because of the recharge/charge time. Still OP nonetheless.
Not really, A fully charged unenchanted bow deals 5 hearts. Plus while your reloading your exposed. You can't see your entire screen if the chosen method of reloading is crafting. Seems not OP to me.
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Comparing a ranged weapon to a melee weapon in terms of fire rate is a bad argument. The tradeoff between melee weapons and ranged weapons, from what we've seen in Minecraft is simple. Melee weapons get high fire rate and damage at a short distance, while ranged gets a slower attack but higher distance. If you want a sword with more range, suggest a spear.
And Over9000Guy, it actually is balanced. If you get a guy down to 4 hearts with your flintlock pistol, and he keeps shooting at you with his bow, he'll likely kill you because of the bow's higher speed, accuracy and range at the cost of less damage. Same with a sword. If you manage to get a shot into him, you'll be long gone before your reload time is up because of the superior damage, speed and accuracy of the sword at the cost of range. And up against a potion user, you'd be dominated from mid-range, high-accuracy, high-speed specialized attacks before you could even come close to loading the thing. Personally, I think this idea is genius. Why? Because the little quartet of weapon choices is missing something. A slow, inaccurate long-ranged weapon that hits like a truck. *cough*flintlockpistols*cough*
I like this idea, but you should be able to craft one cobblestone to get 9 rocks (which can make cobblestone) and are used as ammo, however a gunpowder must be used every couple of shots.
If you don't like new toys, then whatever you do, do not play the snapshots.
The things they add to snapshots belong into Minecraft and don't ruin the feel of the game.
The reason they haven't and never will add guns into Minecraft is because they do do not belong.
I will support if the OP adds these ideas.
I would just like to say how much I love these two suggestions, especially that last one. With the right balancing/pros and cons, I can see this as being a viable addition to Minecraft. I will go with partial support for now.
I never meant to imply that all people who dislike the idea of flintlock pistols/guns are dumb, I was saying that a good chunk of them say that guns are not suited for Minecraft. While I can see your argument, I personally think guns would fit in well.
Bad wording on my part.
I would change the mechanics a bit though:
- Gold? Sorry, but no. Just doesn't make sense. There's better ways to balance op-ness
- Shot per click, also no. Guns should have to be manually reloaded. This mod did a very good job of balanced weapons: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1287801-1-6-4-forge-smp-flintlock-weapons-mod-v1-6-150
If it's manually reloaded it's more realistic and it prevents them from being op. If you have to reload every shot, you won't be shooting often. I think reloading should be as above. but i tiny bit simpler. maybe a shapeless recipe: unloaded gun, iron ingot(or something else), gunpowder(maybe not?). Manually reloading will take about 6-10 seconds, less if your good at it.
- Damage should be more than 4(2hearts) especially if you have to manually reload. At least 8(4hearts) maybe more. I think 12(6hearts) would be good. Something that's high enough to be useful but low enough to avoid op. It would have to balance with the fact that guns need to be manually reloaded.
Anyways, I hope they add this. And they probably will eventually. But not for awhile. probably in 1.10-1.12.The same could be said for those who want items added in to Minecraft. And if they don't get added in, people tend to throw a fit over it.
It has ben stated many times in this thread and others which revolve around guns that Guns do not belong in Minecraft because they would ruin the feel of Minecraft. Regardless of how balanced they would be.
You DREAM about minecraft?!
Do you play 24/7 or what?
I really don't know what to put here...
what about swords? you can swing them as fast as you can click.
Why thank you!
yep, I did my homework on this, I know all about it.
A musketeer from ye olden days was expected to fire 6 rounds per minuet. a minecraft minuet is 0.83 seconds
I never said otherwise
If you don't like new toys, then whatever you do, do not play the snapshots.
I don't Really like the ideal of gravel. maybe for something else?
OMG U HAV NOT READ TEH RULEZ.
You don't? I just play on the weekends.
Wow! thanks for enlightening us, I never knew about that.
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why cobble? Its supposed to be for that guy (you know, That guy) who is really rich in SMP and can afford to use expensive weapons.
Not really, A fully charged unenchanted bow deals 5 hearts. Plus while your reloading your exposed. You can't see your entire screen if the chosen method of reloading is crafting. Seems not OP to me.
And Over9000Guy, it actually is balanced. If you get a guy down to 4 hearts with your flintlock pistol, and he keeps shooting at you with his bow, he'll likely kill you because of the bow's higher speed, accuracy and range at the cost of less damage. Same with a sword. If you manage to get a shot into him, you'll be long gone before your reload time is up because of the superior damage, speed and accuracy of the sword at the cost of range. And up against a potion user, you'd be dominated from mid-range, high-accuracy, high-speed specialized attacks before you could even come close to loading the thing. Personally, I think this idea is genius. Why? Because the little quartet of weapon choices is missing something. A slow, inaccurate long-ranged weapon that hits like a truck. *cough*flintlockpistols*cough*
Partial support.
Let's do some math.
1/3 = 0.333...
1/3 * 3 = 1
0.333... * 3 = 0.999...
1 = 0.999...
1 - 0.999... = 0.999... - 0.999...
0.0...1 = 0
0.0...1 * 10... = 0 * 10...
1 = 0
The things they add to snapshots belong into Minecraft and don't ruin the feel of the game.
The reason they haven't and never will add guns into Minecraft is because they do do not belong.