I read the entire OP, but not all the responses so sorry if this is redundant.
This is a really solid setup you've got planned. I voted 'with minor changes' and I'll explain.
First thing is that TO ME, an improved minecart system is not complete without the ability to somehow link carts together. An idea I had for this is a craft-able 'coupling' (crafted as , so you can make them without a table). It would probably just look like a metal rod. When dropped on a track, it behaves like a minecart (sticks to the tracks and can be pushed around), but when it comes in contact with a minecart, it 'attaches' to it. If the minecart moves too far from (or too close to) the coupling, it 'bumps' the coupling forward, and the coupling in turn bumps any car that may be attached to the other end. Thus powered minecarts can pull a train of carts attached by couplings. To un-attach the carts you just whack the coupling to remove it, like you would to pick up a minecart. You can pick it up and re-use it elsewhere.
Second, for some reason I don't like the idea of the forward/reverse switch on the powered minecart being inside a menu. The 'crafting' slot on the PMC makes sense for loading fuel, but having a switch there would be different than any other in-game menu. Somehow I'd like to see the switch visible on the cart. Obviously that leads to the problem of having too many functions that need to be click-able on the same object. I'm thinking if a toggle switch were sticking out of the top, you should be able to click it separately from opening the fuel compartment, or starting/stopping the cart. Would that be too tricky?
Last, I'm not crazy about the proposed indicator lights on the Booster-Brake. I agree with a previous poster, that they should be all red. Not a big deal since we've got texture packs. However, I'd kinda like to see a design that includes a lever, like the redstone repeater/delay. Alongside the track would be ideal, though there isn't much space there in the standard track graphics. I guess putting it between the rails might look silly.
EDIT: I just had another thought. Supposing the Booster/Brake recipe made 4 of them instead of 1... but they only had 1 power level (equivalent to you're proposed 25%). They'd be much simpler, and if you needed full power, you'd just lay 4 of them in a row. They can power each other off one incoming redstone current if directly adjacent, or you can put an empty space between to control each one with separate redstone signals. They'd take a little more space, but be easier to implement and use in game. Just a thought.
Regarding Linking Minecarts:
This suggestion has been brought up a number of times and you can find responses as to why I've chosen not to add it here and here.
Regarding placement of the Forward/Reverse Switch within the Powered Minecart GUI:
I'm also not 100% happy with the GUI based switch since there's no other official example in Minecraft of it's use. However, I can't think of a more elegant and simple method of adding these functions the cart without running into conflicts. It's as you said, if we add switches to the outside there would be "too many functions that need to be click-able on the same object." Unless someone else can provide a better solution, for now I think I'll have to say yes, an external switch would be too tricky.
Regarding the Booster-Brake indicator light colours:
I've already explained in a prior post my justification for making the lights have an orange/yellow setting, but in regards to your lever alternative, I feel that a lever indicator would make the track piece look awkward. Carts are stopped by the smallest feather falling on the track and a jutting out piece of wood would just look confusing for a player. ("Can my cart run over it or will it get stuck?")
p.s. I don't know if you've skipped all the pages, but a couple pages back I posted a bunch of my old designs. I've literally gone through dozens of concept drawings for the booster-brake texture. You might be interested in checking them out.
I noticed something in the last post on the first page, when you mentioned placement. In your design there, the Booster-Brake faced the player when put down. Is this still the case? Also I really like the new design over that one. I wasn't around back then so I almost had a heart attack thinking you made that just now.
Quote from Ehnonimus »
Quote from LarvaLounge »
-snip-
Regarding Linking Minecarts:
This suggestion has been brought up a number of times and you can find responses as to why I've chosen not to add it here and here.
I'm tellin ya, put linking in the faq XD
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-Yes he's 100% vanilla minecraft (without the cherry) legit
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Minecraft:
TerrorBite
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Hey Ehnonimus, I really like your idea here and think it's the best proposal for Minecarts. However, something about having infinitely powered boosters just doesn't sit right with my view of Minecraft's resource-based game mechanic. So I came up with an add-on proposal to remedy this.
Here's a post I made on Reddit not too long ago, explaining my proposal:
Notch's original idea was the (horribly implemented) powered minecart. I'd like to preserve the original ideology of "fuel = motion", and propose the following:
You have a booster block, similar to this one. But instead of being powered by redstone (wheee free energy), it's required to be powered by a furnace placed either beside or beneath* the booster track block. You put coal or other burnable materials in the bottom of the furnace.
However, the fuel isn't consumed until a cart hits the booster. Then the furnace ignites and starts to burn as normal, boosting the cart. Subsequent carts will also be boosted until that fuel runs out, according to the usual rules of the furnace. The next cart to hit the booster will reignite the furnace, burning the next piece of fuel. An empty furnace won't light, and therefore won't boost.
This means that a stack of 64 sticks would be a cheap and sufficient way to boost 64 carts, but if you had many carts passing over the booster in a short time, then a stack of 64 coal could potentially boost many more carts than that (as subsequent carts would be boosted by the same still-burning piece of coal).
*It's possible to place blocks on top of a furnace/chest/workbench by placing them on the side of an adjacent block.
Let me elaborate further, and explain how this can relate to your proposal.
As the powered minecart shows, Mojang's original vision for accelerated minecarts was a system that consumed resources. My proposal is to keep this in the form of your booster-brake blocks requiring an ordinary furnace either beneath them or beside the track. Redstone would still activate/deactivate the booster. A deactivated booster would not ignite its adjacent furnace when a cart passed it.
I think this satisfies the requirements of one of the core values of Minecraft, that resources are consumed to perform certain actions. For anyone who might think it tedious that you have to go and restock furnaces all along your rail line, consider that you can store an entire 64 stack of sticks (a cheap resource) in each furnace, meaning at least 50 uses of your railway before restocking is necessary (leaving a margin for error). Anyway, Mojang's proposed torch/lantern update (that never arrived, but still might) would have us running around with flint and steel relighting torches, so I don't see that restocking furnaces is too much of a hassle.
Finally, I propose an option for SMP that would turn off the above requirement for fueled furnaces adjacent to booster-brakes, basically allowing your boosters to function as you originally proposed. While the furnace/fuel requirement makes perfect sense for singleplayer and "strict" survival multiplayer, many servers opt for a more "creative"-style gameplay. In this situation, restocking furnaces would become an annoying chore, especially on a busy rail line. So allowing "free" boosters should be an option there.
- = -
Another thing, this time a technical consideration. Your booster-brakes have a state, comprised of their orientation and five speed settings (including off). To store all of this, you need five bits of data (2 for orientation, 3 for speed) - but Minecraft only gives you four. Unless you want to get into the complexities of sending extended entity data, I'm thinking you may have to sacrifice some functionality for technical reasons.
Jeb's redstone repeaters are already a victim of this limitation. All redstone items that output a redstone current, such as pressure plates, torches, wire, etc have a metadata value stating if they are currently activated. This allows their state to be saved when the world is saved. Repeaters, however, have four directions they can be laid in (two bits), and four settings (two bits), leaving no bit for saving redstone state (In fact, repeaters would also need another two bits to store how far through the delay the current was, making seven bits total). As a direct result of this, redstone clocks built using repeaters may freeze when the world is saved and reloaded (well known bug).
Back to your booster-brakes. Like Jeb, you're left with an extra bit of data (in your case, whether the user set the repeater to "Off" via right click). To fit within the limitations, you'll have to abandon this, and go only with the four speed settings (2 bits) and four possible directions (2 bits). (Alternatively you could make the lowest speed "Off".) I personally think the off setting is a bit redundant anyway, as a simple AND gate and a switch on an existing redstone input, or just a switch if there was no existing redstone input, will do the same job (though taking up a little more space).
When making proposals like this, it's important to know that your proposal is technically feasible. Just thought I'd point this out to you.
On an unrelated note, why have a forward/reverse switch on a powered minecart at all? If it's a switch in the GUI, then how do you tell which end of the cart is the front? Why not just have it always move away from you when you start it? Apologies if this has already been explained and I missed it.
Thanks for your consideration! I look forward to hearing your feedback.
Regarding placement of the Forward/Reverse Switch within the Powered Minecart GUI:
I'm also not 100% happy with the GUI based switch since there's no other official example in Minecraft of it's use. However, I can't think of a more elegant and simple method of adding these functions the cart without running into conflicts. It's as you said, if we add switches to the outside there would be "too many functions that need to be click-able on the same object." Unless someone else can provide a better solution, for now I think I'll have to say yes, an external switch would be too tricky.
I got it! I got it! There is a sign on the outside of the cart with words above it. When you click the cart with left mouse, it switches to the word "power". Now if you right click it, it acts like a normal minecart when you put coal in it, except it goes the direction that is specified in the direction settings. Left click it again, it switches to the word "direction". When you right click the cart now, it changes which direction (left, right, and neutral) it goes to. There might be a little arrow pointing to the direction it is going to. If you want to destroy it, it'll just switch signs, but not do anything else, like a wooden door.
I noticed something in the last post on the first page, when you mentioned placement. In your design there, the Booster-Brake faced the player when put down. Is this still the case? Also I really like the new design over that one. I wasn't around back then so I almost had a heart attack thinking you made that just now.
Quote from Ehnonimus »
Quote from LarvaLounge »
-snip-
Regarding Linking Minecarts:
This suggestion has been brought up a number of times and you can find responses as to why I've chosen not to add it here and here.
I'm tellin ya, put linking in the faq XD
The "Special Track Placement Mechanics" are still valid for the most part. To be clear, tracks will always point towards the player when placed and will not "snap" to fit adjacent rails. I'm planning on redoing all the explanatory diagrams when I do the final art pass for the OP. Photoshop is my *****.
[EDIT] @TerrorBite, Please excuse me for the brief reply, I want to take the time to address your suggestions and questions properly so this brief response is just a placeholder for my more extensive response. I'm writing it up right now and I'll post it here via an edit when I'm done. [Updated.] Alright, a few hours and a lot of typing later, here's my response to your furnace concept:
Quote from TerrorBite »
I think [my furnace proposal] satisfies the requirements of one of the core values of Minecraft, that resources are consumed to perform certain actions.
After carefully reading over your post, I've come to believe that the above statement best represents your rationale behind your suggestion and also reveals its flaws.
I think we can both agree that good gameplay in a game is very important for providing a positive experience for the player. One aspect of creating good gameplay is maintaining the balances of cost vs reward for the player. An example of this would be the cost of spending time and resources smelting vs the reward of obtaining new materials such as iron bricks to craft with. However, cost isn't the only way to balance rewarding the player. Other examples include risk vs. reward like when players decide to tackle dungeons or explore at night, or simply rewarding the player for performing actions that encourage the spirit of the game such as the feeling of satisfaction upon completion of an especially creative and cool structure.
In your suggestion, I believe you're mistaking "cost vs. reward" as a "core value of Minecraft" when it's actually "good game balance results in better gameplay". You are correct that Notch originally intended for self-powered minecarts to be powered by the consumption of resources for game balance reasons. However, since then, Notch has stated that he approves the changes in gameplay that the current glitch-booster system provides. This suggests that Notch no longer considers a coal powered system as the only worthwhile method of cart transit or the only way of balancing cart transport. From this reasoning, we can conclude that a redstone powered booster method of mine cart transportation is also a viable alternative as long as it remains balanced and fun.
You might feel that redstone powered boosters to unbalanced due their unlimited power supply, but I believe the amount of initial resources needed to build an effective system and the scaling reward system balance this out. To elaborate, a redstone powered system requires such a high amount of resources to build that a player would realistically only be able to obtain them late-game. By which point they have most likely already constructed a well established base and are possibly looking to expand their operations. On this level, an unlimited booster would be a reward for all their effort and encourage them to build even further abroad. The next stage of reward is the the scaling reward system which is a simple result of Minecraft's "some assembly required" gameplay. Players who invest the time, effort, creativity, and ingenuity to create better, more functional cart systems will naturally be rewarded with a better product over those who choose to just slap down some track and hop in a powered cart. Remember, Minecarts Mk.II just provides the basic building blocks for constructing a redstone powered system. There's still a lot of work involved to construct one.
Aside from feeling cheap by repurposing a furnace for the sole sake of tacking on a continuous resource cost (one of the reasons I don't like Minecart Mania), I guarantee your furnace concept would get extremely irritating very quickly. Sixty-four uses is a lot less than you think it is, even on single player. Especially when you have refill a dozen boosters to keep a couple hundred blocks of track operational. You used Mojang's torch/lantern update as an example of why this wouldn't be an issue, but I'd like to point out that the "unlimited lantern" concept for replacing torches that burn out is exactly like the powered minecart and a boosted cart concept. Users will get fed up and tired of spending the flint, steel and time to maintain torches invest in the creation of lanterns. Users who are sick of digging for coal to maintain their powered carts will invest in the creation of a redstone booster system.
Unlimited boosters have already been proven to be a useful, engaging, creative and enjoyable aspect of Minecraft. Tacking on a resource cost for the sake of staying true to a perceived "core value of Minecraft" is a poor way of attempting to balance an idea that already balances itself.
Regarding booster-brake technical considerations:
I really appreciate your input on the technical aspects of the proposal since I lack a lot of insight in this regard.
To clarify, there are only four power levels for the user to choose from when setting booster power (25-50-75-100%). Technically, the "off" state is a power level of zero, but the user can't set it by right clicking the booster, it's simply activated by removing a redstone charge from the booster.
[*:394cc2x0] Booster-Brake is receiving no redstone charge (OFF) = power level 0%
[*:394cc2x0] Booster-Brake is receiving a redstone charge (ON) = power level 25%, 50%, 75%, or 100%, depending on what the user set it to previously.
Despite the clarification, I suppose I might have to still remove another level of boost to keep it under the bit-range limit.
Regarding Powered Minecart Gui:
That's a good point. AH1684 might have a solution, but I have yet to read it over. Expect the Powered Cart mechanics to be revised in the near future.
@AH1684, You getting the same answer as TerrorBite..for now. I still have to think on this, but I'll get back to you once I'm done replying to TerrorBite. I really like the feedback and suggestions! Thanks guys!
.
.
. On an unrelated note: Holy crap. That post took frickin' forever to write. *goes off for lunch*
The "Special Track Placement Mechanics" are still valid for the most part. To be clear, tracks will always point towards the player when placed and will not "snap" to fit adjacent rails. I'm planning on redoing all the explanatory diagrams when I do the final art pass for the OP. Photoshop is my *****.
If that is the case I would like to suggest it be switched to face away from the player. When you're laying track you usually go from a starting point to an ending point, instead of nice versa. It also makes a bit of sense due to you always go in the direction you're facing. To place a booster you'd have to stop laying track, move around to face your track, then go back again and resume. A minor inconvenience, but just wanted to voice that. *As an after thought it comes to mind that many people like to build backward in the first place (me being one of them), but my proposal still stands, as blocks are usually built backward (due to increased height), and tracks can be walked on, giving them an easy way to be build forward.
@TerrorBite A few things for you
1. Your proposal makes sense, especially if notch is really reliant on his coal for minecarts thing, but something about it doesn't sit right. Torches are currently infinite however may need to be re-lit in a future update. However, when that update comes lanterns will be implemented which will now become an infinite source of light. The trade off (I'm assuming) is that that'll be harder to craft and couldn't be made on the fly unless you bring a workbench along, and most likely use rarer materials (perhaps glowstone?)
* As a side note, all torches will be replaced with lanterns when the update it implemented. Citation
2. There's something I don't get about block id's and such. If note blocks have such a huge repertoire of uses why can't a Booster Brake have 5? I was wondering if you could explain that to me. (I'm not being sarcastic or critical here, I really don't get it ^^:wink.gif:
3. With the implementation of the furnace to set up a single booster brake you'd need to: Make Booster Brake, Furnace, and red stone/ torches; Go to the place you want it to be put down, Dig under and place furnace, Fill furnace will Coal, Place a block next to track where booster brake will be, Click the side of it to lay track on booster, destroy block, lay redstone. I think that's too much to worry about when wanting to place a booster. Not to mention, in order to refuel you need to dig a hole next to it and replace it when you're done, which becomes more of a hassle when you're worried about aesthetics. I'm sure people will be making very complex redstone apparatuses with these that are more complicated than trying to place the track, but I think it just makes it just that: Too Complicated.
3. We're trying to fix a small glitch with a simple solution. Adding a whole bunch of stuff makes it much more difficult to be implemented. Even I think I was a bit selfish to push the multi-speed thing as much as I did. Because it add more mechanics than necessary. Minecarts MK II is a small and easy solution for minecarts to get away from its glitch-based current mechanics. For blinding speed, Stationed stops, and a whole slew of options with the Un/ Occupied Cart Detector (Hey I remembered the name now! ^^); Minecarts MK II is perfectly fine. We're starting to pay to attention to detail and to that I say we should remember the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid.
@AH1684
Ah a menu based system. I like it. However I'm throwing my suggestion out there anyway :tongue.gif:
A small decal of an arrow, that points left or right on the side of the cart (Maybe this could light up when there's coal inside burning, like how the front of a furnace lights up, THAT would be cool... but unnecessary) It switches when right clicked on the side of the cart. However, when you click on the furnace inside the cart you get the furnace menu. Similar to how you have to click on a cow's udder (Or squid's mouth) to get milk. However once the Booster brake is implemented I'm never using Powered Carts again anyway. (I still don't use them even now XD)
Geez that was alot... We're writing novels on this page. Good luck Ehnonimus
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-Yes he's 100% vanilla minecraft (without the cherry) legit
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
Despite the clarification, I suppose I might have to still remove another level of boost to keep it under the bit-range limit.
You'll have to excuse my lack of understanding of Minecraft/Java programming, but what would be restricted by this bit-range limit?
I Believe Ehnonimus is refering to what Terror Bite said here:
Quote from TerrorBite »
- = -
Another thing, this time a technical consideration. Your booster-brakes have a state, comprised of their orientation and five speed settings (including off). To store all of this, you need five bits of data (2 for orientation, 3 for speed) - but Minecraft only gives you four. Unless you want to get into the complexities of sending extended entity data, I'm thinking you may have to sacrifice some functionality for technical reasons.
Jeb's redstone repeaters are already a victim of this limitation. All redstone items that output a redstone current, such as pressure plates, torches, wire, etc have a metadata value stating if they are currently activated. This allows their state to be saved when the world is saved. Repeaters, however, have four directions they can be laid in (two bits), and four settings (two bits), leaving no bit for saving redstone state (In fact, repeaters would also need another two bits to store how far through the delay the current was, making seven bits total). As a direct result of this, redstone clocks built using repeaters may freeze when the world is saved and reloaded (well known bug).
Back to your booster-brakes. Like Jeb, you're left with an extra bit of data (in your case, whether the user set the repeater to "Off" via right click). To fit within the limitations, you'll have to abandon this, and go only with the four speed settings (2 bits) and four possible directions (2 bits). (Alternatively you could make the lowest speed "Off".) I personally think the off setting is a bit redundant anyway, as a simple AND gate and a switch on an existing redstone input, or just a switch if there was no existing redstone input, will do the same job (though taking up a little more space).
When making proposals like this, it's important to know that your proposal is technically feasible. Just thought I'd point this out to you.
Which... I don't understand it either ^^"
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-Yes he's 100% vanilla minecraft (without the cherry) legit
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
That's exactly what I was referring to. Which reminds me, I'd also like an answer to this question since it confuses me too:
Quote from Zenofire »
2. There's something I don't get about block id's and such. If note blocks have such a huge repertoire of uses why can't a Booster Brake have 5? I was wondering if you could explain that to me. (I'm not being sarcastic or critical here, I really don't get it ^^:wink.gif:
[EDIT] In response to AH1684's idea on using a "sign" to indicate a Powered Cart's direction of movement; I don't like the "sign" idea since reminds me of the wood signs stuck to everything in Minecarts Mania (which annoys the heck out of me) BUT, I do agree that some sort of external signals are needed to indicate which way the cart will move when turned on. I shall think on this further.
[EDIT #2:] I actually wrote a lot more when I was attempting to answer TerrorBite's post. I decided I might as well post it since it might interest some of you. Totally optional reading btw so feel free to tl;dr. So, with no further ado,
Further insight on my design decisions for Minecarts Mk.II:
When I began work on Minecarts Mk. II my goal was to create a system that legitimized and improved upon glitch-booster mechanics. The primary appeal of the original glitch-boosters are that they encourage players to use creative and innovative construction techniques and potentially reward them with completely unlimited high speed cart travel, hands-free control, self-maintainence, and even full automation. The rewards favour better construction techniques over material investment since compact, efficient, and feature filled stations are more desirable than large, inefficient, and unwieldy ones. The drawbacks of glitch boosters are the space required to construct them, the inefficiency of repurposing non-purpose built objects for use in stations, and the relatively high learning curve which prevents many players from accessing and enjoying this aspect of the game. I have taken great pains to ensure that my proposed modifications to the mine cart system keep the positive attributes, reduce or remove the drawback, and all while maintain good balance in relation to the rest of the game.
Consider the nature of Minecraft's "tech tree" leveling system and it's players. The most basic and easily accessible cart transportation is a cart on rails. It emulates the first real-world trains which were powered by rope, horse, human, or just gravity. Beginner players, after gathering and crafting the required resources, only have to slap down some track on a slope, hop in a cart, and go to create a gravity powered coaster. An unpowered cart never runs out of fuel, but is pretty limited in speed and distance, often requiring a player to get out and push it on foot.
Assuming we've fixed the mechanics, the Powered Minecart would be the next step. I see the introduction of an engine as an analogy to the development of steam and diesel powered locomotives in the real world. For the price of a furnace, and as long as it can be fed a steady stream of coal, it offers self propelled, faster-than-walking transportation that can be manually controlled from inside the cart for a high level of versatility. Players no longer have to climb slopes on foot, and can instead ride up them quickly at the expense of burning resources.
Finally, we have the redstone booster powered minecart. It continues our loose analogy of real-world train development by emulating the electric trains of today by running on an external power source of renewable energy. Redstone was the natural choice for an logical in-game explanation for why a booster would have unlimited uses since I was keeping that aspect of the glitch-booster mechanics. It would realistically only be available late game and offers the fastest speed with no further cost at the expense of an extremely high initial resource investment, a lack of versatility, planning required for construction, and the amount of time needed to set such a system up.
[EDIT #3:]
Since no-one responded and I'm really hoping for some feeback on this idea, I'm gonna re-post here.
New Proposed Detector Block Mechanics (Feedback please!)
I've been seriously thinking about ways to fix the detector block mechanics for a while. For those of you who are unaware of the issue, the redstone charge output from detector blocks interferes with circuit creation and each other when placed in close proximity. I've since come up with a solution that keeps the original block's flexibility but makes it much more practical and easy to use.
Here's how it works:
[*:3s9oum0f] A cart detector block will have a single light on one side only (I will be changing the skin).
[*:3s9oum0f] An Empty Cart Detector Block can detect any cart immediately adjacent to it. (like wood plates)
[*:3s9oum0f] An Occupied Cart Detector Block can detect only occupied carts immediately adjacent to it. (like stone plates)
[*:3s9oum0f] When a cart is detected, it outputs a RS charge to the side with the light. (The light will turn on when charged)
[*:3s9oum0f] The side that the charge is outputted from is determined by the player upon placing the block. The player simply right-clicks a side of the block to set that side as the "output" side. The block's skin will be rotated to match.
I was inspired to add this new mechanic after watching videos demonstrating the extremely clever mod. Let me know what you think! I'm planning on creating updated photoshop graphics tonight and hopefully I'll have it updated by tomorrow. The final proposal is nearly complete!
[EDIT #2:] I actually wrote a lot more when I was attempting to answer TerrorBite's post. I decided I might as well post it since it might interest some of you. Totally optional reading btw so feel free to tl;dr. So, with no further ado,
Further insight on my design decisions for Minecarts Mk.II:
*Snip*
-A whole bunch-
This is why I like this proposal. Its well thought out and makes alot of sense. It has its place in the late game, and seems like it would be easy to integrate. I don't believe it breaks the game and expands the tech tree in a way that is simple and natural to Minecraft.
Quote from Ehnonimus »
[EDIT #3:]
Since no-one responded and I'm really hoping for some feeback on this idea, I'm gonna re-post here.
New Proposed Detector Block Mechanics (Feedback please!)
Here's how it works:
[*:2hmou6gk] A cart detector block will have a single light on one side only (I will be changing the skin).
[*:2hmou6gk] An Empty Cart Detector Block can detect any cart immediately adjacent to it. (like wood plates)
[*:2hmou6gk] An Occupied Cart Detector Block can detect only occupied carts immediately adjacent to it. (like stone plates)
[*:2hmou6gk] When a cart is detected, it outputs a RS charge to the side with the light. (The light will turn on when charged)
[*:2hmou6gk] The side that the charge is outputted from is determined by the player upon placing the block. The player simply right-clicks a side of the block to set that side as the "output" side. The block's skin will be rotated to match.
The final proposal is nearly complete!
I think this would work just fine. Only having the input on one side would still be fine to make it work. Few things:
1. When you place the block down next to a track make it face opposite the track, the way a chest faces opposite the blocks next to it.
-Alternatively: Have it face the player (As suggested)
2. Rotating: My suggestion is to use a die for reference. Or not have it rotate at all (As suggested)
Just a thought now. I could have a booster brake, on top of a detector block. That way when I arrive it charges me up and shoots me off XD
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-Yes he's 100% vanilla minecraft (without the cherry) legit
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
I like the idea, although i think that there needs another brake, that while in the on state, will break carts, and off state, send them forward. This would be needed for a fully automated cart station, otherwise you would need to push the cart into the storage area.
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Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins.
@Ehnonimus: Thanks for your reply. You have obviously put a lot of time and energy into this and it shows. I should have understood FAQ #2 to be an explanation for why linking minecarts is not included here. For lunk-heads like myself, perhaps you might rattle off a short example list of the most commonly repeated suggestions in that FAQ.
Powered Minecart Operation:
Something like this is what I had in mind...
A toggle switch is easily click-able separately from the block it's mounted on even from the side, and a frame shows up around it to see that it's 'targeted'. So assuming such a switch can be implemented on the PMC, I really think it would be VERY easy to operate, and clearly show which direction the cart is going to move.
Alternate idea: What if each time you STOP the powered minecart by left-clicking, it also changes it's 'direction'. It would cycle through 4 states: stopped, moving -->, stopped, moving <--. As long as the cart doesn't shoot off at top speed and move out of range before you can click it again, this would be a very simple solution that doesn't require any extra gadgets, and would be most similar to what we have now, while greatly improving it's use-ability.
Potential Problem: The way the current PMC works, it really has no front or back. The face of the furnace changes direction, for example, when the thing goes around corners. So one may not be able to tell which direction a stopped cart is going to move when they click it, unless that can be changed, so the furnace face is always either the front or back. This would be a problem with your proposed system as well, though, since telling the cart you want it to move forward or reverse is ambiguous if the cart doesn't really have a front or back.
Booster-Brake:
The more I think about it, the more I think it would be better if the Booster-Brake had only one 'speed' instead of 4 variables speeds. The reason: Simplicity. I'll reiterate my idea here. I know it's drastically different than yours, and I don't expect to change your mind, but I'll explain why I think it's better.
I think the Booster-Brake track should have only one 'speed' which would effectively be equivalent to your 25% setting. (And perhaps the crafting recipe gives 4 instead of 1, so the 'price' of a full powered boost hasn't really changed). A Booster Track that is touching a powered Booster Track will also receive power. To control them separately, normal tracks would be placed between them.
Why?
1. With minecarts, there is going to be a lot of right clicking happening on and around these booster tracks. With a variable Booster-Brake, a single accidental click on one of them could potentially mess up your whole system. If you don't know which one got changed, headache. How often are you going to want to change the boost amounts once your system is in place? And when you DO want to have it changeable, I think that using a redstone circuit to turn individual ones on and off is more versatile than a right-click system anyhow. If they only have one setting, it takes a slight amount more work to change your track, but then it's more 'set in stone'. It's far more difficult to accidentally screw it up.
2. The design of the track piece could be made much simpler and less obtrusive. All it needs to show is direction and on/off state.
3. Space isn't really much of a concern. So it would take 4 of mine to boost as much as one of yours, yes. The cart is likely going to be moving down the track more than 4 blocks anyhow.
4. It makes sense to me that you'd have a longer track area for a stronger boost. Also, the cart would accelerate at a more realistic rate if the boost was spread over an area.
Anyhow, perhaps somewhere in these 25 pages you've already gone over this and given reasons why you prefer variable boosters. If that's the case, I apologize for not reading the whole thread.
1. When you place the block down next to a track make it face opposite the track, the way a chest faces opposite the blocks next to it.
-Alternatively: Have it face the player (As suggested)
2. Rotating: My suggestion is to use a die for reference. Or not have it rotate at all (As suggested)
Just a thought now. I could have a booster brake, on top of a detector block. That way when I arrive it charges me up and shoots me off XD
I was thinking of keeping everything simple by using sign mechanics for placement. The block/track piece would always point (as closely as possible) towards the player. I don't understand your die reference. The new detector block texture would have just one side with the round light, the rest would have a plan wood or stone texture (plus the dark border). The light would indicate which side the redstone charge is outputted from.
Also, yes, I intended for users to be able to combine a detector with a booster-brake for an ultra compact booster. :-)
Quote from Bob, The Angry Bunny »
I like the idea, although i think that there needs another brake, that while in the on state, will break carts, and off state, send them forward. This would be needed for a fully automated cart station, otherwise you would need to push the cart into the storage area.
This isn't needed. I've already designed simple stop-and-start automated minecart stations with the Minecart Mk.II blocks. I'll create and post diagrams later once I finalize all the piece/block mechanics.
@LarvaLounge:
No problemo, I try to reply to everyone. Also, good idea about adding the link to the FAQ. I'll do that right after this.
[EDIT] Done. I probably should have done that ages ago. Oh well, you get credit for finally getting me to do it lol.
Regarding your PMC Suggestion:
I agree that a switch like this would be quite easy to operate. I also like the fact that it's clearly visible from a distance without having to open a GUI and check. My only concern would be technical considerations. I don't know if and how something like this would be programmed. If it's possible and doesn't break the current "laws" of Minecraft programming then I'm cool with adding it. Honestly, I like it a lot more than my GUI idea.
I don't think there needs to be a "front" and "back" for the powered minecart since it can travel in either direction equally well. Many real-world trains are double-ended too. I think as long as there's a clear indicator (ie: the big lever on top) pointing which direction the cart is set to move in, it's good to go.
Regarding the Booster-Brake Suggestion:
This was actually my original mechanic for the Booster-Brake suggestion (zophah fortunately quoted me on it). I changed it because there were a lot of demands for a "max speed" booster option and also because Jeb introduced the note block and the redstone repeater which added "adjustable functions" to the game. Since I didn't want to create a separate track piece, I just added the adjustable power function to the booster-brake. You're tempting me to go back to the original mechanic because I really liked it's simplicity. We'll see...I might change my mind during programming and you'll all be stuck with a non-adjustable booster. Muahahaha!
I was thinking the sign would be something like this.
(I can draw great pictures, but they have to be small. Big ones, I can't do.)
This cart's direction would be left.
You're tempting me to go back to the original mechanic because I really liked it's simplicity.
Groovy, I really do think it would be better. Especially in multiplayer, where someone else might switch your booster settings somewhere, even if they just figured "Well I need full boost power or I might not make it to the next stop." Or something along those lines. If you see a booster set to 50%, you might wonder if it's supposed to be set that way.... if you see two non-variable boosters next to each other, you won't question it.
Something else I've been thinking about is the way minecart speeds work now, the boosters we are making are boosting us WAY past 100% speed. The cart can't go faster than it's full speed, but it has 'stored up energy' that keeps it moving at full speed for a long while before it starts to decelerate.
If you only boost a cart to exactly full speed, it doesn't end up traveling very far, as it will start decelerating as soon as it leaves the booster. So if 1 of your variable speed boosters, set to 100%, puts us only just at full speed (if you want to be able to control speeds with these things too, then that's going to be about right), then you'll need a lot of them to boost as much as the boosters most of us are making in the current version of the game. Of course, with a non-variable 25% booster, you'll need 4x more than that. Still, I think the single speed is better.
Either way, I think we are going to need a lot more of these Booster-Brakes than people might be assuming, which makes me wonder about the proposed cost in materials.
EDIT: also consider that currently, unoccupied carts get boosted much less than occupied ones, so that would need to be changed if we are expected to be able to control speeds and still have unoccupied carts reach their destinations.
You're tempting me to go back to the original mechanic because I really liked it's simplicity.
Groovy, I really do think it would be better. Especially in multiplayer, where someone else might switch your booster settings somewhere, even if they just figured "Well I need full boost power or I might not make it to the next stop." Or something along those lines. If you see a booster set to 50%, you might wonder if it's supposed to be set that way.... if you see two non-variable boosters next to each other, you won't question it.
Hmm. Good point. I shall continue to consider this. I'd like to hear what others think too.
Quote from LarvaLounge »
Something else I've been thinking about is the way minecart speeds work now, the boosters we are making are boosting us WAY past 100% speed. The cart can't go faster than it's full speed, but it has 'stored up energy' that keeps it moving at full speed for a long while before it starts to decelerate.
If you only boost a cart to exactly full speed, it doesn't end up traveling very far, as it will start decelerating as soon as it leaves the booster. So if 1 of your variable speed boosters, set to 100%, puts us only just at full speed (if you want to be able to control speeds with these things too, then that's going to be about right), then you'll need a lot of them to boost as much as the boosters most of us are making in the current version of the game. Of course, with a non-variable 25% booster, you'll need 4x more than that. Still, I think the single speed is better.
Either way, I think we are going to need a lot more of these Booster-Brakes than people might be assuming, which makes me wonder about the proposed cost in materials.
Ah-hah, you've figured out the key to how I plan on making boosters balanced. ;-)
A lot of people assume that the Booster-Brake will act just like a glitch booster but that is not the case. They will still give speed on demand, but not nearly as much momentum as a glitch-booster would. You will need to place a Booster-Brake every few blocks to maintain a cart's momentum (and speed for that matter). I haven't decided exactly how much this distance will be, but you can be assured that I intend to make it as fair and balanced as possible. Expect more details on this once a mod is released that I can use to test and tweak game balance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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What don't you like about the block idea?
This is a really solid setup you've got planned. I voted 'with minor changes' and I'll explain.
First thing is that TO ME, an improved minecart system is not complete without the ability to somehow link carts together. An idea I had for this is a craft-able 'coupling' (crafted as
Second, for some reason I don't like the idea of the forward/reverse switch on the powered minecart being inside a menu. The 'crafting' slot on the PMC makes sense for loading fuel, but having a switch there would be different than any other in-game menu. Somehow I'd like to see the switch visible on the cart. Obviously that leads to the problem of having too many functions that need to be click-able on the same object. I'm thinking if a toggle switch were sticking out of the top, you should be able to click it separately from opening the fuel compartment, or starting/stopping the cart. Would that be too tricky?
Last, I'm not crazy about the proposed indicator lights on the Booster-Brake. I agree with a previous poster, that they should be all red. Not a big deal since we've got texture packs. However, I'd kinda like to see a design that includes a lever, like the redstone repeater/delay. Alongside the track would be ideal, though there isn't much space there in the standard track graphics. I guess putting it between the rails might look silly.
EDIT: I just had another thought. Supposing the Booster/Brake recipe made 4 of them instead of 1... but they only had 1 power level (equivalent to you're proposed 25%). They'd be much simpler, and if you needed full power, you'd just lay 4 of them in a row. They can power each other off one incoming redstone current if directly adjacent, or you can put an empty space between to control each one with separate redstone signals. They'd take a little more space, but be easier to implement and use in game. Just a thought.
Regarding Linking Minecarts:
This suggestion has been brought up a number of times and you can find responses as to why I've chosen not to add it here and here.
Regarding placement of the Forward/Reverse Switch within the Powered Minecart GUI:
I'm also not 100% happy with the GUI based switch since there's no other official example in Minecraft of it's use. However, I can't think of a more elegant and simple method of adding these functions the cart without running into conflicts. It's as you said, if we add switches to the outside there would be "too many functions that need to be click-able on the same object." Unless someone else can provide a better solution, for now I think I'll have to say yes, an external switch would be too tricky.
Regarding the Booster-Brake indicator light colours:
I've already explained in a prior post my justification for making the lights have an orange/yellow setting, but in regards to your lever alternative, I feel that a lever indicator would make the track piece look awkward. Carts are stopped by the smallest feather falling on the track and a jutting out piece of wood would just look confusing for a player. ("Can my cart run over it or will it get stuck?")
p.s. I don't know if you've skipped all the pages, but a couple pages back I posted a bunch of my old designs. I've literally gone through dozens of concept drawings for the booster-brake texture. You might be interested in checking them out.
Regarding Linking Minecarts:
This suggestion has been brought up a number of times and you can find responses as to why I've chosen not to add it here and here.
I'm tellin ya, put linking in the faq XD
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
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Curse PremiumHere's a post I made on Reddit not too long ago, explaining my proposal:
Let me elaborate further, and explain how this can relate to your proposal.
As the powered minecart shows, Mojang's original vision for accelerated minecarts was a system that consumed resources. My proposal is to keep this in the form of your booster-brake blocks requiring an ordinary furnace either beneath them or beside the track. Redstone would still activate/deactivate the booster. A deactivated booster would not ignite its adjacent furnace when a cart passed it.
I think this satisfies the requirements of one of the core values of Minecraft, that resources are consumed to perform certain actions. For anyone who might think it tedious that you have to go and restock furnaces all along your rail line, consider that you can store an entire 64 stack of sticks (a cheap resource) in each furnace, meaning at least 50 uses of your railway before restocking is necessary (leaving a margin for error). Anyway, Mojang's proposed torch/lantern update (that never arrived, but still might) would have us running around with flint and steel relighting torches, so I don't see that restocking furnaces is too much of a hassle.
Finally, I propose an option for SMP that would turn off the above requirement for fueled furnaces adjacent to booster-brakes, basically allowing your boosters to function as you originally proposed. While the furnace/fuel requirement makes perfect sense for singleplayer and "strict" survival multiplayer, many servers opt for a more "creative"-style gameplay. In this situation, restocking furnaces would become an annoying chore, especially on a busy rail line. So allowing "free" boosters should be an option there.
Jeb's redstone repeaters are already a victim of this limitation. All redstone items that output a redstone current, such as pressure plates, torches, wire, etc have a metadata value stating if they are currently activated. This allows their state to be saved when the world is saved. Repeaters, however, have four directions they can be laid in (two bits), and four settings (two bits), leaving no bit for saving redstone state (In fact, repeaters would also need another two bits to store how far through the delay the current was, making seven bits total). As a direct result of this, redstone clocks built using repeaters may freeze when the world is saved and reloaded (well known bug).
Back to your booster-brakes. Like Jeb, you're left with an extra bit of data (in your case, whether the user set the repeater to "Off" via right click). To fit within the limitations, you'll have to abandon this, and go only with the four speed settings (2 bits) and four possible directions (2 bits). (Alternatively you could make the lowest speed "Off".) I personally think the off setting is a bit redundant anyway, as a simple AND gate and a switch on an existing redstone input, or just a switch if there was no existing redstone input, will do the same job (though taking up a little more space).
When making proposals like this, it's important to know that your proposal is technically feasible. Just thought I'd point this out to you.
On an unrelated note, why have a forward/reverse switch on a powered minecart at all? If it's a switch in the GUI, then how do you tell which end of the cart is the front? Why not just have it always move away from you when you start it? Apologies if this has already been explained and I missed it.
Thanks for your consideration! I look forward to hearing your feedback.
I got it! I got it! There is a sign on the outside of the cart with words above it. When you click the cart with left mouse, it switches to the word "power". Now if you right click it, it acts like a normal minecart when you put coal in it, except it goes the direction that is specified in the direction settings. Left click it again, it switches to the word "direction". When you right click the cart now, it changes which direction (left, right, and neutral) it goes to. There might be a little arrow pointing to the direction it is going to. If you want to destroy it, it'll just switch signs, but not do anything else, like a wooden door.
The "Special Track Placement Mechanics" are still valid for the most part. To be clear, tracks will always point towards the player when placed and will not "snap" to fit adjacent rails. I'm planning on redoing all the explanatory diagrams when I do the final art pass for the OP. Photoshop is my *****.
[EDIT]
@TerrorBite, Please excuse me for the brief reply, I want to take the time to address your suggestions and questions properly so this brief response is just a placeholder for my more extensive response. I'm writing it up right now and I'll post it here via an edit when I'm done.
[Updated.] Alright, a few hours and a lot of typing later, here's my response to your furnace concept:
After carefully reading over your post, I've come to believe that the above statement best represents your rationale behind your suggestion and also reveals its flaws.
I think we can both agree that good gameplay in a game is very important for providing a positive experience for the player. One aspect of creating good gameplay is maintaining the balances of cost vs reward for the player. An example of this would be the cost of spending time and resources smelting vs the reward of obtaining new materials such as iron bricks to craft with. However, cost isn't the only way to balance rewarding the player. Other examples include risk vs. reward like when players decide to tackle dungeons or explore at night, or simply rewarding the player for performing actions that encourage the spirit of the game such as the feeling of satisfaction upon completion of an especially creative and cool structure.
In your suggestion, I believe you're mistaking "cost vs. reward" as a "core value of Minecraft" when it's actually "good game balance results in better gameplay". You are correct that Notch originally intended for self-powered minecarts to be powered by the consumption of resources for game balance reasons. However, since then, Notch has stated that he approves the changes in gameplay that the current glitch-booster system provides. This suggests that Notch no longer considers a coal powered system as the only worthwhile method of cart transit or the only way of balancing cart transport. From this reasoning, we can conclude that a redstone powered booster method of mine cart transportation is also a viable alternative as long as it remains balanced and fun.
You might feel that redstone powered boosters to unbalanced due their unlimited power supply, but I believe the amount of initial resources needed to build an effective system and the scaling reward system balance this out. To elaborate, a redstone powered system requires such a high amount of resources to build that a player would realistically only be able to obtain them late-game. By which point they have most likely already constructed a well established base and are possibly looking to expand their operations. On this level, an unlimited booster would be a reward for all their effort and encourage them to build even further abroad. The next stage of reward is the the scaling reward system which is a simple result of Minecraft's "some assembly required" gameplay. Players who invest the time, effort, creativity, and ingenuity to create better, more functional cart systems will naturally be rewarded with a better product over those who choose to just slap down some track and hop in a powered cart. Remember, Minecarts Mk.II just provides the basic building blocks for constructing a redstone powered system. There's still a lot of work involved to construct one.
Aside from feeling cheap by repurposing a furnace for the sole sake of tacking on a continuous resource cost (one of the reasons I don't like Minecart Mania), I guarantee your furnace concept would get extremely irritating very quickly. Sixty-four uses is a lot less than you think it is, even on single player. Especially when you have refill a dozen boosters to keep a couple hundred blocks of track operational. You used Mojang's torch/lantern update as an example of why this wouldn't be an issue, but I'd like to point out that the "unlimited lantern" concept for replacing torches that burn out is exactly like the powered minecart and a boosted cart concept. Users will get fed up and tired of spending the flint, steel and time to maintain torches invest in the creation of lanterns. Users who are sick of digging for coal to maintain their powered carts will invest in the creation of a redstone booster system.
Unlimited boosters have already been proven to be a useful, engaging, creative and enjoyable aspect of Minecraft. Tacking on a resource cost for the sake of staying true to a perceived "core value of Minecraft" is a poor way of attempting to balance an idea that already balances itself.
Regarding booster-brake technical considerations:
I really appreciate your input on the technical aspects of the proposal since I lack a lot of insight in this regard.
To clarify, there are only four power levels for the user to choose from when setting booster power (25-50-75-100%). Technically, the "off" state is a power level of zero, but the user can't set it by right clicking the booster, it's simply activated by removing a redstone charge from the booster.
[*:394cc2x0] Booster-Brake is receiving no redstone charge (OFF) = power level 0%
Despite the clarification, I suppose I might have to still remove another level of boost to keep it under the bit-range limit.[*:394cc2x0] Booster-Brake is receiving a redstone charge (ON) = power level 25%, 50%, 75%, or 100%, depending on what the user set it to previously.
Regarding Powered Minecart Gui:
That's a good point. AH1684 might have a solution, but I have yet to read it over. Expect the Powered Cart mechanics to be revised in the near future.
@AH1684, You getting the same answer as TerrorBite..for now. I still have to think on this, but I'll get back to you once I'm done replying to TerrorBite. I really like the feedback and suggestions! Thanks guys!
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On an unrelated note: Holy crap. That post took frickin' forever to write. *goes off for lunch*
If that is the case I would like to suggest it be switched to face away from the player. When you're laying track you usually go from a starting point to an ending point, instead of nice versa. It also makes a bit of sense due to you always go in the direction you're facing. To place a booster you'd have to stop laying track, move around to face your track, then go back again and resume. A minor inconvenience, but just wanted to voice that. *As an after thought it comes to mind that many people like to build backward in the first place (me being one of them), but my proposal still stands, as blocks are usually built backward (due to increased height), and tracks can be walked on, giving them an easy way to be build forward.
@TerrorBite A few things for you
1. Your proposal makes sense, especially if notch is really reliant on his coal for minecarts thing, but something about it doesn't sit right. Torches are currently infinite however may need to be re-lit in a future update. However, when that update comes lanterns will be implemented which will now become an infinite source of light. The trade off (I'm assuming) is that that'll be harder to craft and couldn't be made on the fly unless you bring a workbench along, and most likely use rarer materials (perhaps glowstone?)
* As a side note, all torches will be replaced with lanterns when the update it implemented. Citation
2. There's something I don't get about block id's and such. If note blocks have such a huge repertoire of uses why can't a Booster Brake have 5? I was wondering if you could explain that to me. (I'm not being sarcastic or critical here, I really don't get it ^^:wink.gif:
3. With the implementation of the furnace to set up a single booster brake you'd need to: Make Booster Brake, Furnace, and red stone/ torches; Go to the place you want it to be put down, Dig under and place furnace, Fill furnace will Coal, Place a block next to track where booster brake will be, Click the side of it to lay track on booster, destroy block, lay redstone. I think that's too much to worry about when wanting to place a booster. Not to mention, in order to refuel you need to dig a hole next to it and replace it when you're done, which becomes more of a hassle when you're worried about aesthetics. I'm sure people will be making very complex redstone apparatuses with these that are more complicated than trying to place the track, but I think it just makes it just that: Too Complicated.
3. We're trying to fix a small glitch with a simple solution. Adding a whole bunch of stuff makes it much more difficult to be implemented. Even I think I was a bit selfish to push the multi-speed thing as much as I did. Because it add more mechanics than necessary. Minecarts MK II is a small and easy solution for minecarts to get away from its glitch-based current mechanics. For blinding speed, Stationed stops, and a whole slew of options with the Un/ Occupied Cart Detector (Hey I remembered the name now! ^^); Minecarts MK II is perfectly fine. We're starting to pay to attention to detail and to that I say we should remember the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid.
@AH1684
Ah a menu based system. I like it. However I'm throwing my suggestion out there anyway :tongue.gif:
A small decal of an arrow, that points left or right on the side of the cart (Maybe this could light up when there's coal inside burning, like how the front of a furnace lights up, THAT would be cool... but unnecessary) It switches when right clicked on the side of the cart. However, when you click on the furnace inside the cart you get the furnace menu. Similar to how you have to click on a cow's udder (Or squid's mouth) to get milk. However once the Booster brake is implemented I'm never using Powered Carts again anyway. (I still don't use them even now XD)
Geez that was alot... We're writing novels on this page. Good luck Ehnonimus
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
You'll have to excuse my lack of understanding of Minecraft/Java programming, but what would be restricted by this bit-range limit?
I Believe Ehnonimus is refering to what Terror Bite said here:
Which... I don't understand it either ^^"
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
[EDIT] In response to AH1684's idea on using a "sign" to indicate a Powered Cart's direction of movement; I don't like the "sign" idea since reminds me of the wood signs stuck to everything in Minecarts Mania (which annoys the heck out of me) BUT, I do agree that some sort of external signals are needed to indicate which way the cart will move when turned on. I shall think on this further.
[EDIT #2:] I actually wrote a lot more when I was attempting to answer TerrorBite's post. I decided I might as well post it since it might interest some of you. Totally optional reading btw so feel free to tl;dr. So, with no further ado,
Further insight on my design decisions for Minecarts Mk.II:
When I began work on Minecarts Mk. II my goal was to create a system that legitimized and improved upon glitch-booster mechanics. The primary appeal of the original glitch-boosters are that they encourage players to use creative and innovative construction techniques and potentially reward them with completely unlimited high speed cart travel, hands-free control, self-maintainence, and even full automation. The rewards favour better construction techniques over material investment since compact, efficient, and feature filled stations are more desirable than large, inefficient, and unwieldy ones. The drawbacks of glitch boosters are the space required to construct them, the inefficiency of repurposing non-purpose built objects for use in stations, and the relatively high learning curve which prevents many players from accessing and enjoying this aspect of the game. I have taken great pains to ensure that my proposed modifications to the mine cart system keep the positive attributes, reduce or remove the drawback, and all while maintain good balance in relation to the rest of the game.
Consider the nature of Minecraft's "tech tree" leveling system and it's players. The most basic and easily accessible cart transportation is a cart on rails. It emulates the first real-world trains which were powered by rope, horse, human, or just gravity. Beginner players, after gathering and crafting the required resources, only have to slap down some track on a slope, hop in a cart, and go to create a gravity powered coaster. An unpowered cart never runs out of fuel, but is pretty limited in speed and distance, often requiring a player to get out and push it on foot.
Assuming we've fixed the mechanics, the Powered Minecart would be the next step. I see the introduction of an engine as an analogy to the development of steam and diesel powered locomotives in the real world. For the price of a furnace, and as long as it can be fed a steady stream of coal, it offers self propelled, faster-than-walking transportation that can be manually controlled from inside the cart for a high level of versatility. Players no longer have to climb slopes on foot, and can instead ride up them quickly at the expense of burning resources.
Finally, we have the redstone booster powered minecart. It continues our loose analogy of real-world train development by emulating the electric trains of today by running on an external power source of renewable energy. Redstone was the natural choice for an logical in-game explanation for why a booster would have unlimited uses since I was keeping that aspect of the glitch-booster mechanics. It would realistically only be available late game and offers the fastest speed with no further cost at the expense of an extremely high initial resource investment, a lack of versatility, planning required for construction, and the amount of time needed to set such a system up.
[EDIT #3:]
Since no-one responded and I'm really hoping for some feeback on this idea, I'm gonna re-post here.
New Proposed Detector Block Mechanics (Feedback please!)
I've been seriously thinking about ways to fix the detector block mechanics for a while. For those of you who are unaware of the issue, the redstone charge output from detector blocks interferes with circuit creation and each other when placed in close proximity. I've since come up with a solution that keeps the original block's flexibility but makes it much more practical and easy to use.
Here's how it works:
[*:3s9oum0f] A cart detector block will have a single light on one side only (I will be changing the skin).
[*:3s9oum0f] An Empty Cart Detector Block can detect any cart immediately adjacent to it. (like wood plates)
[*:3s9oum0f] An Occupied Cart Detector Block can detect only occupied carts immediately adjacent to it. (like stone plates)
[*:3s9oum0f] When a cart is detected, it outputs a RS charge to the side with the light. (The light will turn on when charged)
[*:3s9oum0f] The side that the charge is outputted from is determined by the player upon placing the block. The player simply right-clicks a side of the block to set that side as the "output" side. The block's skin will be rotated to match.
I was inspired to add this new mechanic after watching videos demonstrating the extremely clever mod. Let me know what you think! I'm planning on creating updated photoshop graphics tonight and hopefully I'll have it updated by tomorrow. The final proposal is nearly complete!
This is why I like this proposal. Its well thought out and makes alot of sense. It has its place in the late game, and seems like it would be easy to integrate. I don't believe it breaks the game and expands the tech tree in a way that is simple and natural to Minecraft.
I think this would work just fine. Only having the input on one side would still be fine to make it work. Few things:
1. When you place the block down next to a track make it face opposite the track, the way a chest faces opposite the blocks next to it.
-Alternatively: Have it face the player (As suggested)
2. Rotating: My suggestion is to use a die for reference. Or not have it rotate at all (As suggested)
Just a thought now. I could have a booster brake, on top of a detector block. That way when I arrive it charges me up and shoots me off XD
-No I do not plan on setting him on fire
~Chibi
Powered Minecart Operation:
Something like this is what I had in mind...
A toggle switch is easily click-able separately from the block it's mounted on even from the side, and a frame shows up around it to see that it's 'targeted'. So assuming such a switch can be implemented on the PMC, I really think it would be VERY easy to operate, and clearly show which direction the cart is going to move.
Alternate idea: What if each time you STOP the powered minecart by left-clicking, it also changes it's 'direction'. It would cycle through 4 states: stopped, moving -->, stopped, moving <--. As long as the cart doesn't shoot off at top speed and move out of range before you can click it again, this would be a very simple solution that doesn't require any extra gadgets, and would be most similar to what we have now, while greatly improving it's use-ability.
Potential Problem: The way the current PMC works, it really has no front or back. The face of the furnace changes direction, for example, when the thing goes around corners. So one may not be able to tell which direction a stopped cart is going to move when they click it, unless that can be changed, so the furnace face is always either the front or back. This would be a problem with your proposed system as well, though, since telling the cart you want it to move forward or reverse is ambiguous if the cart doesn't really have a front or back.
Booster-Brake:
The more I think about it, the more I think it would be better if the Booster-Brake had only one 'speed' instead of 4 variables speeds. The reason: Simplicity. I'll reiterate my idea here. I know it's drastically different than yours, and I don't expect to change your mind, but I'll explain why I think it's better.
I think the Booster-Brake track should have only one 'speed' which would effectively be equivalent to your 25% setting. (And perhaps the crafting recipe gives 4 instead of 1, so the 'price' of a full powered boost hasn't really changed). A Booster Track that is touching a powered Booster Track will also receive power. To control them separately, normal tracks would be placed between them.
Why?
1. With minecarts, there is going to be a lot of right clicking happening on and around these booster tracks. With a variable Booster-Brake, a single accidental click on one of them could potentially mess up your whole system. If you don't know which one got changed, headache. How often are you going to want to change the boost amounts once your system is in place? And when you DO want to have it changeable, I think that using a redstone circuit to turn individual ones on and off is more versatile than a right-click system anyhow. If they only have one setting, it takes a slight amount more work to change your track, but then it's more 'set in stone'. It's far more difficult to accidentally screw it up.
2. The design of the track piece could be made much simpler and less obtrusive. All it needs to show is direction and on/off state.
3. Space isn't really much of a concern. So it would take 4 of mine to boost as much as one of yours, yes. The cart is likely going to be moving down the track more than 4 blocks anyhow.
4. It makes sense to me that you'd have a longer track area for a stronger boost. Also, the cart would accelerate at a more realistic rate if the boost was spread over an area.
Anyhow, perhaps somewhere in these 25 pages you've already gone over this and given reasons why you prefer variable boosters. If that's the case, I apologize for not reading the whole thread.
I was thinking of keeping everything simple by using sign mechanics for placement. The block/track piece would always point (as closely as possible) towards the player. I don't understand your die reference. The new detector block texture would have just one side with the round light, the rest would have a plan wood or stone texture (plus the dark border). The light would indicate which side the redstone charge is outputted from.
Also, yes, I intended for users to be able to combine a detector with a booster-brake for an ultra compact booster. :-)
This isn't needed. I've already designed simple stop-and-start automated minecart stations with the Minecart Mk.II blocks. I'll create and post diagrams later once I finalize all the piece/block mechanics.
@LarvaLounge:
No problemo, I try to reply to everyone. Also, good idea about adding the link to the FAQ. I'll do that right after this.
[EDIT] Done. I probably should have done that ages ago. Oh well, you get credit for finally getting me to do it lol.
Regarding your PMC Suggestion:
I agree that a switch like this would be quite easy to operate. I also like the fact that it's clearly visible from a distance without having to open a GUI and check. My only concern would be technical considerations. I don't know if and how something like this would be programmed. If it's possible and doesn't break the current "laws" of Minecraft programming then I'm cool with adding it. Honestly, I like it a lot more than my GUI idea.
I don't think there needs to be a "front" and "back" for the powered minecart since it can travel in either direction equally well. Many real-world trains are double-ended too. I think as long as there's a clear indicator (ie: the big lever on top) pointing which direction the cart is set to move in, it's good to go.
Regarding the Booster-Brake Suggestion:
This was actually my original mechanic for the Booster-Brake suggestion (zophah fortunately quoted me on it). I changed it because there were a lot of demands for a "max speed" booster option and also because Jeb introduced the note block and the redstone repeater which added "adjustable functions" to the game. Since I didn't want to create a separate track piece, I just added the adjustable power function to the booster-brake. You're tempting me to go back to the original mechanic because I really liked it's simplicity. We'll see...I might change my mind during programming and you'll all be stuck with a non-adjustable booster. Muahahaha!
(I can draw great pictures, but they have to be small. Big ones, I can't do.)
This cart's direction would be left.
Groovy, I really do think it would be better. Especially in multiplayer, where someone else might switch your booster settings somewhere, even if they just figured "Well I need full boost power or I might not make it to the next stop." Or something along those lines. If you see a booster set to 50%, you might wonder if it's supposed to be set that way.... if you see two non-variable boosters next to each other, you won't question it.
Something else I've been thinking about is the way minecart speeds work now, the boosters we are making are boosting us WAY past 100% speed. The cart can't go faster than it's full speed, but it has 'stored up energy' that keeps it moving at full speed for a long while before it starts to decelerate.
If you only boost a cart to exactly full speed, it doesn't end up traveling very far, as it will start decelerating as soon as it leaves the booster. So if 1 of your variable speed boosters, set to 100%, puts us only just at full speed (if you want to be able to control speeds with these things too, then that's going to be about right), then you'll need a lot of them to boost as much as the boosters most of us are making in the current version of the game. Of course, with a non-variable 25% booster, you'll need 4x more than that. Still, I think the single speed is better.
Either way, I think we are going to need a lot more of these Booster-Brakes than people might be assuming, which makes me wonder about the proposed cost in materials.
EDIT: also consider that currently, unoccupied carts get boosted much less than occupied ones, so that would need to be changed if we are expected to be able to control speeds and still have unoccupied carts reach their destinations.
Hmm. Good point. I shall continue to consider this. I'd like to hear what others think too.
Ah-hah, you've figured out the key to how I plan on making boosters balanced. ;-)
A lot of people assume that the Booster-Brake will act just like a glitch booster but that is not the case. They will still give speed on demand, but not nearly as much momentum as a glitch-booster would. You will need to place a Booster-Brake every few blocks to maintain a cart's momentum (and speed for that matter). I haven't decided exactly how much this distance will be, but you can be assured that I intend to make it as fair and balanced as possible. Expect more details on this once a mod is released that I can use to test and tweak game balance.