The first thing I came up with when I was switching Songstone to Breezeblock was the single output, multiple input system, and everything that it could be USED for was all come up with while just doing theoretical debugging; running logic scenarios to see what those rules would generate when given unexpected situations.
Fine, so MAYBE notch didn't visualize a 8/16 bit virtual computer operating within minecraft when he introduced redstone, but it's not like he put out a patch to make that no longer work once he saw a video and realized what could be done.
Same thing here; It's a block that blows wind on its own, that generates force from nowhere. Perhaps it's magical, or perhaps it's a naturally formed version of one of those ionized fans, but each individual block follows the same rules which, once I restructure the logic list, should be very easy to understand, both from reading instructions and from observation within the game, yet still offers a wide range of possibilities. Is "what gets sucked = what gets blown" that hard to understand from a gamer's perspective?
Why specifically cut that down just to make it "less complicated"?
Because I believe sight has been lost on the initial goal.
And I ask you "How in Notch's Green Overworld does a Pipe fit into the Aether?"
And it's because you're thinking about that 16 bit ALU while deciding what Redstone does.
No notch never made a Patch to make it not work, but that's because it was unintended success.
You're PLANNING what it should be used for.
Why does Breeze stone have to transport ANYTHING through it's block? (Items included)
Based on it's name alone it doesn't make sense. Though that goes for a fair amount of things (Redstone carries a current?). But still, most blocks from the Aether have their name fairly descriptive of what it's supposed to do.
Also, I'm still trying to figure out just HOW you plan on having this spawn in the overworld.
Is it going to be in chunks like Lightstone in the Nether (that's how I initially thought of it)?
Is it going to be in long snakes, like a 1 block wide River, creating a really forceful output?
Is it just going to be randomly placed everywhere?
Why does this new block NEED a standard input? (seriously, just make it a "possible input" and have it always generate a single block of force elsewise)
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Why specifically cut that down just to make it "less complicated"?
Why specifically over-complicate something that doesn't need it? (ala my example of Breeze block)
Minecraft is about simplicity. Its simplicity creates complexity. Hell I made a reed farm that produces 1000+ Reed every 20 minutes. What'd I use? Dirt and water. Complex mechanic with simple tools.
You don't create for Minecraft thinking "What complex thing can this do?" You create for it by thinking "What can this do that Minecraft doesn't have already?"
A Block that pushes things based on "air pressure". Good. There's your target.
... and transports water, lava, and items...
... and compounds it's power based on how many other blocks of it's type are directly facing and touching it...
Are you starting to see why I think this idea isn't good?
It's straying WAAY too far from what it should be, and in the process taking a simplistic block and turning it far more complicated than it needs to be.
@Elmach
Mine doesn't require Input, and gains power based on how many sides are blocked off. (Think like a balloon with 6 holes will have less air pressure per hole than a balloon with 1)
Grey's requires input, and gains power based on how many of the same block are near it (facing it, and pushing the same material)
So My breezeblock would work if only one side is open to the air. Grey's would not. It requires at minimum two opposite sides open to the air, and those sides be in matching with Input and Output.
Is "what gets sucked = what gets blown" that hard to understand from a gamer's perspective?
Quote from Elmach »
Umm...
What is the difference between GreyAcumen's Breezeblock and Sabata's Breezeblock?
Sabata's take would give every breezeblock a higher fixed power which can only be divided, and it only blows air.
My take gives each breezeblock the lowest fixed power which can be ADDED to other breeze blocks to create stronger and stronger power, and it both sucks AND blows and does so for air, liquids, and loose items.
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good idea
only put a really long river/thin lake between islands... with dirt bottoms and sides. And waterfalls that would just go down to the bottom of the map then disintegrate (a blur out or a fading or a squiggling off in a bunch of directions. mabey even (TNT) wont go off so it could be naturally occuring and mineable?
but notch should put this in in the future but it would take alot of coding + testing =(:Lava:).
It is a work in progress
note: i voted " i love everything in this thread" rather than the more popular "i can't enjoy minecraft without it", because i do actually enjoy minecraft as it is.
I do think that more block variety, and more location variety would greatly add to that enjoyment though, and think that the novel blocks proposed in here can be implemented without too much difficulty, and would add immense variety to the game.
Is "what gets sucked = what gets blown" that hard to understand from a gamer's perspective?
Quote from Elmach »
Umm...
What is the difference between GreyAcumen's Breezeblock and Sabata's Breezeblock?
Sabata's take would give every breezeblock a higher fixed power which can only be divided, and it only blows air.
My take gives each breezeblock the lowest fixed power which can be ADDED to other breeze blocks to create stronger and stronger power, and it both sucks AND blows and does so for air, liquids, and loose items.
I like GreyAcumen's breezeblock better than Sabata's.
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WTB! What the bacon! Bacon makes the world go round!
I make a perfectly logical idea and no one even mentions it...
sorry, i was going to comment on that, but I was more preoccupied with addressing Sabata's concerns.
From the looks of things, it's another method I had considered myself, essentially being much the same as my breezeblock idea, but with the Potential Input part cut out and their functionality moved to the single remaining Standard Input.
I didn't like that you needed a straight line to be able to get up to full power, and I also didn't like the idea of limiting the max power so much,(and even if you didn't, you'd still have to make even LONGER straight lines to be able to get up to that max power) and that you could only raise or lower the power output in values of 4.
I managed to ask notch about this, and he might add it once the Nether is more interesting!
More info:
Notch was on Coe's livestream, and I managed to ask about this through the constant stream of people talking. He said that he wasn't going to add more realms while there's a mostly boring one already there. He might add more realms when it is more interesting.
You are awesome. Way to capitalize!
So, we now have an ultimatum!
If we can find ways to improve the Nether, then Notch will have no (revealed) reason to not incorporate the Aether!
I think somebody should start a "Nether improvement thread," and then link it here, and include the ideas for the Nether in the thread.
Also, As for breezestone formations sabata, I've imagined it like...
Those aren't roots, those are the rare places that Darkwood can grow in the Aether. I'm considering skipping it entirely, since you have to go through the Nether to get access to the Aether, so you'll always have access to darkwood before you get to the Aether.
While that makes a little bit of sense TS, I still greatly dislike the idea.
The part I want to talk about being how it'd interact with the Aetherworld. (in map generation)
IF that was what your pipe did it'd have to have a formation similar to this throughout the landmass:
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Glass being little 1 block air pockets.
WHY?!
WHY DOES IT NEED THOSE RANDOM POCKETS OF AIR TO CONTINUE A CHAIN?!
IMAGINE TRYING TO GET THAT TO WORK IN THE TERRAIN GENERATOR.
Also, if that's where it's placed, congrats, you've just made a non-threatening block.
It's either in an area you can't reach (base of landmass) or... an area you probably won't reach (flat side of a mountain)! Forget the 45 block pushing power, you're more likely to run into it's middle by making a 1x2 tunnel through the center of the landmass. And then it won't be any threat.
And I still stand by my question of "How on Notch's Green Overworld, does a PIPE fit into the AETHER?"
It's Breeze Block FGS, not TransportBlock, or Pipeblock. It should create a BREEZE. Assuming there'll be geysers is assuming BREEZEblock's Piping functionality.
Manipulate Water to move up based on Breeze and ALL you have to do is place EITHER of our Breezeblocks pointing upwards inside a water mass!
NO PIPING REQUIRED, AND IT'D BE THE SAME CODE AS FOR FLOATSAND!
WIN-M.F.-WIN
(Just thought my Breezeblock could probably create little air pockets for Water spelunking similar to sponge)
I managed to ask notch about this, and he might add it once the Nether is more interesting!
More info:
Notch was on Coe's livestream, and I managed to ask about this through the constant stream of people talking. He said that he wasn't going to add more realms while there's a mostly boring one already there. He might add more realms when it is more interesting.
You are awesome. Way to capitalize!
So, we now have an ultimatum!
If we can find ways to improve the Nether, then Notch will have no (revealed) reason to not incorporate the Aether!
I think somebody should start a "Nether improvement thread," and then link it here, and include the ideas for the Nether in the thread.
Bang, already on my own version of such a thread, as of last night. Called the "Nether Wildlife Fund", check my signature. Right now it's just my ideas, but gimme something good and I'll add it. Also, for MasterZero.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Those aren't roots, those are the rare places that Darkwood can grow in the Aether. I'm considering skipping it entirely, since you have to go through the Nether to get access to the Aether, so you'll always have access to darkwood before you get to the Aether.
Okay, Sabata, hold on. You're okay with throwing logic(and extra functionality) out the window and having a block that produces wind FROM NOTHING(no input), but you're not okay with suspending disbelief a bit and saying that somehow a block has managed to form that just naturally sucks stuff from one side and blows it out the other, and just kinda ends up acting as a pipe system by that inherent nature? I've already explained how this could be done through some form of ionic process, just assume that process has been made natural somehow, but at least it's not just endlessly producing air from nothing.
What's with your comment about Imagine trying to get random pockets of air into the generation code? Just have the "suck" end of a chain of breezeblock end in an air pocket occasionally, or the other way around where pockets of air have the suck end of breezeblock spawned near them. As for "more likely to hit it's middle, rendering it harmless, sure, but the same is true for yours; just always keep a wall to one side, and it doesn't matter if you uncover a sabata-brand-breezeblock, the most it can do is blow you 5 places back down the tunnel you made, and that's from EVERY side you hit it from. Big whoop.
Just look at what you're saying about Xenova's(at least I think. Since you aren't quoting anyone, for all I know you're still replying to Zophah) placement of Breezeblock on that diagram; it WOULD be absolutely non dangerous, IF he used YOUR blocks that could only produce a max power of 5. If he used my version that could produce a max power of 16, or 32, 64, 75, 100, or any cap that seems reasonable, you could be blown clear out to another map chunk, or straight up into the air so high that you'll pancake when you land (unless you land in water, or very skillfully brush against the windstream that hurled you into the air just enough to slow your decent as you fall)
Oh, and hey, variable power again. When I uncover a sabata-breezeblock, I know that if I can see empty spaces around it, that it's power is only 1 or 2, and even if every space around it is blocked, the most it'll every be is 5. When I uncover MY breezeblock, unless I carefully observe the wind current(which as wind, shouldn't be easy to see) or carefully backtrace the entire length of breezeblock chain (which can wrap around itself, making it impossible to observe the entire structure without removing the outside layers) I have no idea what the power is until I actually get blown by it. It could be just 1, it could be 0, it could be 25.
Seriously, Sabata, the more arguments you throw out, the more things I see wrong with your idea, and the more things I see right with mine.
Also your assessment of Zophah's version is a bit wrong.
Quote from sabata2 »
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Glass being little 1 block air pockets.
Since Zophah's version doesn't accept inputs from the side, and also increases speed by having longer stacks of his breezeblock, getting a pipe system to handle turns would need to work like this: (Note, I use for the breezeblock and [] for empty air, since it has traditionally been used that way) [] [] []
So anything getting sucked through the "piping" would need to be dumped into an empty space so that it could then be sucked up by another stretch of zophah's breezeblock
I had to register to reply to this awesome idea, it sounds really cool! It would be awesome if Notch put it in-game. Oh, and I got a litte obsessed and created an aether avatar, feel free to use it if you want. :biggrin.gif:
Grey, I think you should add MasterZero's quote on the front page.
Probably a good idea, but I'd really like to be able to get an exact word-for-word quote of what notch said if I'm going to do that.
Also, I think Sabata was talking about Your design.
Hence why I quote people and break up what they say so that people know what I'm responding to.
Sabata, since the block defaults to carrying air, the it would be just fine without the air pockets. Transporting water might be different though...
Yes, transporting water/lava would need to use the same setup as what Zophah's version needs just for air. Actually, it would also be able to use the method that Sabata proposed:
this method would cause the output to have a water pressure of 3 at the end(assuming that the output is at the top left, and the input is bottom right)
( =Water being pumped from the output of a breezeblock)
This would result in a water pressure of only 1 at the end.
I have made a suggestion about very balanced ornithopters as a flying transport. It's still on the front page right now, and it would work great with the Aether.
Just imagine, you fly between the floating islands on your ornithopter, or you take off in your glider from the Aether and travel down to the normal world.
sorry to just jump in like this, but Sticky Sand/Soul Sand
is a deal breaker for me
sorry bout not being able to jump would mean not being able to navagte in the neather, and a lot of things would break, and it would change the really cool name.
sorry to just jump in like this, but Sticky Sand/Soul Sand
is a deal breaker for me
sorry bout not being able to jump would mean not being able to navagte in the neather, and a lot of things would break, and it would change the really cool name.
My solution?
Look for it, and see it before you get stuck in it. If you get stuck in it, just walk out. Simple as that, really.
One could almost say the same about sandfall traps or minefields. Almost. Slightly more difficult to get out of for both, though. *shrugs*
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Very probably insane, so don't mind me too much when I ramble.
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Fine, so MAYBE notch didn't visualize a 8/16 bit virtual computer operating within minecraft when he introduced redstone, but it's not like he put out a patch to make that no longer work once he saw a video and realized what could be done.
Same thing here; It's a block that blows wind on its own, that generates force from nowhere. Perhaps it's magical, or perhaps it's a naturally formed version of one of those ionized fans, but each individual block follows the same rules which, once I restructure the logic list, should be very easy to understand, both from reading instructions and from observation within the game, yet still offers a wide range of possibilities. Is "what gets sucked = what gets blown" that hard to understand from a gamer's perspective?
Why specifically cut that down just to make it "less complicated"?
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
What is the difference between GreyAcumen's Breezeblock and Sabata's Breezeblock?
And it's because you're thinking about that 16 bit ALU while deciding what Redstone does.
No notch never made a Patch to make it not work, but that's because it was unintended success.
You're PLANNING what it should be used for.
Why does Breeze stone have to transport ANYTHING through it's block? (Items included)
Based on it's name alone it doesn't make sense. Though that goes for a fair amount of things (Redstone carries a current?). But still, most blocks from the Aether have their name fairly descriptive of what it's supposed to do.
Also, I'm still trying to figure out just HOW you plan on having this spawn in the overworld.
Is it going to be in chunks like Lightstone in the Nether (that's how I initially thought of it)?
Is it going to be in long snakes, like a 1 block wide River, creating a really forceful output?
Is it just going to be randomly placed everywhere?
Why does this new block NEED a standard input? (seriously, just make it a "possible input" and have it always generate a single block of force elsewise)
Why specifically over-complicate something that doesn't need it? (ala my example of Breeze block)
Minecraft is about simplicity. Its simplicity creates complexity. Hell I made a reed farm that produces 1000+ Reed every 20 minutes. What'd I use? Dirt and water. Complex mechanic with simple tools.
You don't create for Minecraft thinking "What complex thing can this do?" You create for it by thinking "What can this do that Minecraft doesn't have already?"
A Block that pushes things based on "air pressure". Good. There's your target.
... and transports water, lava, and items...
... and compounds it's power based on how many other blocks of it's type are directly facing and touching it...
Are you starting to see why I think this idea isn't good?
It's straying WAAY too far from what it should be, and in the process taking a simplistic block and turning it far more complicated than it needs to be.
@Elmach
Mine doesn't require Input, and gains power based on how many sides are blocked off. (Think like a balloon with 6 holes will have less air pressure per hole than a balloon with 1)
Grey's requires input, and gains power based on how many of the same block are near it (facing it, and pushing the same material)
So My breezeblock would work if only one side is open to the air. Grey's would not. It requires at minimum two opposite sides open to the air, and those sides be in matching with Input and Output.
Sabata's take would give every breezeblock a higher fixed power which can only be divided, and it only blows air.
My take gives each breezeblock the lowest fixed power which can be ADDED to other breeze blocks to create stronger and stronger power, and it both sucks AND blows and does so for air, liquids, and loose items.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
only put a really long river/thin lake between islands... with dirt bottoms and sides. And waterfalls that would just go down to the bottom of the map then disintegrate (a blur out or a fading or a squiggling off in a bunch of directions. mabey even
but notch should put this in in the future but it would take alot of coding + testing =(:Lava:).
It is a work in progress
I do think that more block variety, and more location variety would greatly add to that enjoyment though, and think that the novel blocks proposed in here can be implemented without too much difficulty, and would add immense variety to the game.
I like GreyAcumen's breezeblock better than Sabata's.
WTB! What the bacon! Bacon makes the world go round!
sorry, i was going to comment on that, but I was more preoccupied with addressing Sabata's concerns.
From the looks of things, it's another method I had considered myself, essentially being much the same as my breezeblock idea, but with the Potential Input part cut out and their functionality moved to the single remaining Standard Input.
I didn't like that you needed a straight line to be able to get up to full power, and I also didn't like the idea of limiting the max power so much,(and even if you didn't, you'd still have to make even LONGER straight lines to be able to get up to that max power) and that you could only raise or lower the power output in values of 4.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
You are awesome. Way to capitalize!
So, we now have an ultimatum!
If we can find ways to improve the Nether, then Notch will have no (revealed) reason to not incorporate the Aether!
I think somebody should start a "Nether improvement thread," and then link it here, and include the ideas for the Nether in the thread.
Also, As for breezestone formations sabata, I've imagined it like...
The image is cut off, just click it to link.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
The part I want to talk about being how it'd interact with the Aetherworld. (in map generation)
IF that was what your pipe did it'd have to have a formation similar to this throughout the landmass:
[] [] []
Glass being little 1 block air pockets.
WHY?!
WHY DOES IT NEED THOSE RANDOM POCKETS OF AIR TO CONTINUE A CHAIN?!
IMAGINE TRYING TO GET THAT TO WORK IN THE TERRAIN GENERATOR.
Also, if that's where it's placed, congrats, you've just made a non-threatening block.
It's either in an area you can't reach (base of landmass) or... an area you probably won't reach (flat side of a mountain)! Forget the 45 block pushing power, you're more likely to run into it's middle by making a 1x2 tunnel through the center of the landmass. And then it won't be any threat.
And I still stand by my question of "How on Notch's Green Overworld, does a PIPE fit into the AETHER?"
It's Breeze Block FGS, not TransportBlock, or Pipeblock. It should create a BREEZE. Assuming there'll be geysers is assuming BREEZEblock's Piping functionality.
Manipulate Water to move up based on Breeze and ALL you have to do is place EITHER of our Breezeblocks pointing upwards inside a water mass!
NO PIPING REQUIRED, AND IT'D BE THE SAME CODE AS FOR FLOATSAND!
WIN-M.F.-WIN
(Just thought my Breezeblock could probably create little air pockets for Water spelunking similar to sponge)
Bang, already on my own version of such a thread, as of last night. Called the "Nether Wildlife Fund", check my signature. Right now it's just my ideas, but gimme something good and I'll add it. Also,
True.
What's with your comment about Imagine trying to get random pockets of air into the generation code? Just have the "suck" end of a chain of breezeblock end in an air pocket occasionally, or the other way around where pockets of air have the suck end of breezeblock spawned near them. As for "more likely to hit it's middle, rendering it harmless, sure, but the same is true for yours; just always keep a wall to one side, and it doesn't matter if you uncover a sabata-brand-breezeblock, the most it can do is blow you 5 places back down the tunnel you made, and that's from EVERY side you hit it from. Big whoop.
Just look at what you're saying about Xenova's(at least I think. Since you aren't quoting anyone, for all I know you're still replying to Zophah) placement of Breezeblock on that diagram; it WOULD be absolutely non dangerous, IF he used YOUR blocks that could only produce a max power of 5. If he used my version that could produce a max power of 16, or 32, 64, 75, 100, or any cap that seems reasonable, you could be blown clear out to another map chunk, or straight up into the air so high that you'll pancake when you land (unless you land in water, or very skillfully brush against the windstream that hurled you into the air just enough to slow your decent as you fall)
Oh, and hey, variable power again. When I uncover a sabata-breezeblock, I know that if I can see empty spaces around it, that it's power is only 1 or 2, and even if every space around it is blocked, the most it'll every be is 5. When I uncover MY breezeblock, unless I carefully observe the wind current(which as wind, shouldn't be easy to see) or carefully backtrace the entire length of breezeblock chain (which can wrap around itself, making it impossible to observe the entire structure without removing the outside layers) I have no idea what the power is until I actually get blown by it. It could be just 1, it could be 0, it could be 25.
Seriously, Sabata, the more arguments you throw out, the more things I see wrong with your idea, and the more things I see right with mine.
Also your assessment of Zophah's version is a bit wrong.
Since Zophah's version doesn't accept inputs from the side, and also increases speed by having longer stacks of his breezeblock, getting a pipe system to handle turns would need to work like this: (Note, I use
So anything getting sucked through the "piping" would need to be dumped into an empty space so that it could then be sucked up by another stretch of zophah's breezeblock
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
We already found out, the person who asked about it has told us. Not that we expect you to know.
Grey, I think you should add MasterZero's quote on the front page.
Also, I think Sabata was talking about Your design.
Sabata, since the block defaults to carrying air, the it would be just fine without the air pockets. Transporting water might be different though...
Hence why I quote people and break up what they say so that people know what I'm responding to.
Yes, transporting water/lava would need to use the same setup as what Zophah's version needs just for air. Actually, it would also be able to use the method that Sabata proposed:
this method would cause the output to have a water pressure of 3 at the end(assuming that the output is at the top left, and the input is bottom right)
(
This would result in a water pressure of only 1 at the end.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Just imagine, you fly between the floating islands on your ornithopter, or you take off in your glider from the Aether and travel down to the normal world.
is a deal breaker for me
sorry bout not being able to jump would mean not being able to navagte in the neather, and a lot of things would break, and it would change the really cool name.
My solution?
Look for it, and see it before you get stuck in it. If you get stuck in it, just walk out. Simple as that, really.
One could almost say the same about sandfall traps or minefields. Almost. Slightly more difficult to get out of for both, though. *shrugs*