Hey, I'm not sure if you remember me, but I'm the guy that made a whole bunch of horrible suggestions. However, I've been refining them and, although by the looks of it I have lost my chance to help with the Aether, I'm interested in this 'New Nether'.
Also, guys, stop making fun of Notch. I'd like to see you make Minecraft from scratch.
I'm confused. Difference between this and the "Aether Collab Mod"?
The difference is that the Aether Collab Mod was good enough to actually go create a mod, instead of just wasting time "giving notch ideas". (This isn't off topic)
The difference is that the Aether Collab Mod was good enough to actually go create a mod, instead of just wasting time "giving notch ideas". (This isn't off topic)
This would still have been better; we just need someone to actually follow it when modding it.
Think about it: as an idea, most of the Aether Collab looked (let's face it) like ****. Now it's in the game, it's amazing, for the most part. So this Aether, the one that the collab was based off of, has an amazing idea. If it get's put into the game, either through a mod, or throughNotch finally noticing, it's gonna be.... Well you get the point
Think about it: as an idea, most of the Aether Collab looked (let's face it) like ****. Now it's in the game, it's amazing, for the most part. So this Aether, the one that the collab was based off of, has an amazing idea. If it get's put into the game, either through a mod, or throughNotch finally noticing, it's gonna be.... Well you get the point
Enlighten me, exactly what is so different from the mod and the suggestion?
Sure, there are plenty of things missing (such as Galestone and Flowvein) but we've always planned to add that in future patches, since we preferred to get the mod out so people could just enjoy it. In fact, I think we added more than the original thread proposed, such as fully functional dungeons with reward systems.
Enlighten me, exactly what is so different from the mod and the suggestion?
Sure, there are plenty of things missing (such as Galestone and Flowvein) but we've always planned to add that in future patches, since we preferred to get the mod out so people could just enjoy it. In fact, I think we added more than the original thread proposed, such as fully functional dungeons with reward systems.
I can't really say for certain (since I haven't actually played the mod) but I think it is because of the extra stuff added that people dislike it.
Too many extra tools? Tools that cause an item to drop that you can use to heal yourself? I don't think the suggestion thread ever mentioned new tools (I do see a mention of camoflaged armor, however.) A whole block dedicated to hatching moas? I think using the furnace as an incubator would have worked fine.
These are just things that bug me personally looking at the mod thread.
Finally, what was wrong with the concept of no directly hostile mobs? It was a beautiful idea and, as we saw from the zephyrs, just as effective as standard damage.
You want to know what was wrong, kingbdogz? What's wrong is that you took a beautifully balanced, handcrafted suggestion, where every piece had been perfected, and then you turned it into a pretty standard mod. You have to understand, that most of us aren't attacking what you made, we're attacking you over the wasted opportunity. That, for us on the suggestion thread, is what stings the most.
I agree with this completely. I think the mod could have been more if it had stayed true to the thread.
It's always possible that a more "purist" version could branch off from the mod.
Yeah, and the main issue is with what you added. I'll be honest here, you did a good job, but not a great job; The new tools and ores, not to mention the enchanted repair system and the dungeon weapons, were unbalanced beyond belief. The moas were a good idea, but you went way overboard with the type variety and the whole incubator thing, and, to be honest, while I understand that ambrosia was a necessary implementation for the dungeons, it kinda ruins the balance of gameplay outside them, particularly for the normal overworld. Also, the decision to make players start from square one when they reached the Aether was a bad one. It's kinda a kick in the nuts to players who've already had to sweat and toil to get there, and it feels like you're just cheaply justifying the new resources you added. It's like you're going 'Hey! Look at what we made! And to make sure you're really appreciating it, we're gonna force you to use every damn block of it!'
Finally, what was wrong with the concept of no directly hostile mobs? It was a beautiful idea and, as we saw from the zephyrs, just as effective as standard damage. The dungeons epitomise this; instead of the puzzle dungeons hypothesised, based on avoiding the gazes of the sentries and navigating the mazes to treasure, they ended up being just another set of gruelling boss fights, with, as previously mentioned, game-breakingly overpowered rewards.
You want to know what was wrong, kingbdogz? What's wrong is that you took a beautifully balanced, handcrafted suggestion, where every piece had been perfected, and then you turned it into a pretty standard mod. You have to understand, that most of us aren't attacking what you made, we're attacking you over the wasted opportunity. That, for us on the suggestion thread, is what stings the most.
The only mobs which directly attack you are the Bosses and the Cockatrices. Otherwise, we have quite a few mobs which use indirect damage (such as Swets and Zephyrs). What you need to understand is that not everything that is suggested in the thread actually works when carried over to the game; trust me, we had a version of the mod at one point where it was exactly the same as the original suggestion. Unfortunately, it just wasn't as fun as we had hoped. The only difference was that two blocks were missing (Flowvein and Galestone), but otherwise there was just nothing to do there. The blocks were decent fun, but there was no incentive to explore or adventure out to different locations. The terrain was mostly the same all the time, unlike the Overworld which has caves to explore and dungeons. Our solution? Incentives to explore, such as Dungeons, Aechor Plants to tame your flying mounts, a wide variety of cool mobs, and of course we can't forget the dungeon rewards. The rewards themselves are the biggest incentive, because once you've gone back to the overworld you always want to go back and conquer some more (especially once your rewards have degraded). The reasoning behind the new tools was to make it seem like an entirely new and hostile world, where you are no longer "on top". It made the Aether more intimidating, especially with mobs like the Zephyr where you cannot really do much to prevent falling off a cliff, other than carefully placed dirt barricades. On the topic of Ambrosium: we're working on balancing them in 1.02, so do not fear about that.
You say the suggestion is perfectly crafted as if it would work perfectly in-game. However, I can comfortably say it doesn't, especially since we've been playing around with the suggestion thread's ideas for almost 6 months. It's the main reason for the delay, we had to improve upon the existing thread to make it more enjoyable. Anyway, I don't think you could call it a "pretty standard mod", there are almost no other mods like the Aether, especially not with so much content.
Look, what I'm trying to say is simply that the Aether Collab didn't look good on paper. This Aether does. The Aether was a good mod, no doubts about that. I just think that this will be a lot better if it's added.
The only mobs which directly attack you are the Bosses and the Cockatrices. Otherwise, we have quite a few mobs which use indirect damage (such as Swets and Zephyrs). What you need to understand is that not everything that is suggested in the thread actually works when carried over to the game; trust me, we had a version of the mod at one point where it was exactly the same as the original suggestion. Unfortunately, it just wasn't as fun as we had hoped. The only difference was that two blocks were missing (Flowvein and Galestone), but otherwise there was just nothing to do there. The blocks were decent fun, but there was no incentive to explore or adventure out to different locations. The terrain was mostly the same all the time, unlike the Overworld which has caves to explore and dungeons. Our solution? Incentives to explore, such as Dungeons, Aechor Plants to tame your flying mounts, a wide variety of cool mobs, and of course we can't forget the dungeon rewards. The rewards themselves are the biggest incentive, because once you've gone back to the overworld you always want to go back and conquer some more (especially once your rewards have degraded). The reasoning behind the new tools was to make it seem like an entirely new and hostile world, where you are no longer "on top". It made the Aether more intimidating, especially with mobs like the Zephyr where you cannot really do much to prevent falling off a cliff, other than carefully placed dirt barricades. On the topic of Ambrosium: we're working on balancing them in 1.02, so do not fear about that.
You say the suggestion is perfectly crafted as if it would work perfectly in-game. However, I can comfortably say it doesn't, especially since we've been playing around with the suggestion thread's ideas for almost 6 months. It's the main reason for the delay, we had to improve upon the existing thread to make it more enjoyable. Anyway, I don't think you could call it a "pretty standard mod", there are almost no other mods like the Aether, especially not with so much content.
I agree the Aether mod turned out nice, (less glitchy than some of Notch's crap of similar caliber) and added a lot, I don't see how the FEW things that the Aether mod hadn't added would have made it a whole lot better, though you spouting that it these items wouldn't work in game is complete BS, you dont even have Aether in SMP yet, and you complain that it would these items wouldn't be balanced. The aether was a great mod, and it wasn't ruined by changing some small bits from the original aether suggestion.
However the major disagreement I have with you is your last paragraph.
"Anyway, I don't think you could call it a "pretty standard mod", there are almost no other mods like the Aether, especially not with so much content."
Wrong, there are many other world mods for minecraft, such as the MANY new nether mods that add just as much content as you guys did, Then you have things like Mo creatures, engicraft and others, which actually add MORE than Aether did. There are many more mods of the same caliber as Aether or higher, this is just the tip of the ice berg, so don't get on your high horse about your mod, its not the best at what it does and its certainly not the only other world mod out there.
Enlighten me, exactly what is so different from the mod and the suggestion?
Sure, there are plenty of things missing (such as Galestone and Flowvein) but we've always planned to add that in future patches, since we preferred to get the mod out so people could just enjoy it. In fact, I think we added more than the original thread proposed, such as fully functional dungeons with reward systems.
There are so many different things.
First, dungeons.
For one thing, the original suggestion stressed TEMPLES and not dungeons. These are buildings of light, not of darkness, with good intentions: but lots of riches inside! Powerful temple guardians would protect the temples by blasting away any players or placed blocks, ensuring most greedy adventurers would not get inside. The only "dungeons" from the current mod that would really fit in the Aether are the floating Greek temples.
Then the bosses.
The Slider is interesting, and fits the "no-direct hurt" theme of the original Aether the best.
The Valkyries and the Sun Spirit are just random and have nothing to do with the Aether. The Valkyries were fun to fight, and the Sun Boss was just plain annoying, like a scrapped portion of a fight taken from a LoZ game.
Cockatrices, in their original suggestion, were rare swamp-dwelling Overworld creatures that paralyzed you with their gaze before killing you (true to the myth.)
You took this great idea, stuck it in the Aether, hyped up its spawn rate, and made it shoot infinite poison darts.
Then you used Kodaichi's Bellthorn and made it shoot infinite poison darts as well, and its only purpose is food to tame moas.
Aerwhales were supposed to be very rare creatures that dwelled in high mountains and the Aether, and are used to get gas bladders for a hot-air balloon. You've implemented these pretty well, minus the balloons and the spawnrate (which should be fixed soon.)
Zephyrs were also supposed to be mildly rare creatures of mountains and the Aether that would fly right up to you and blow you around with wind (aka: a melee enemy.) You've made them the equivalent of the Ghast: ridiculously common, long range, and annoying.
Then there's the blocks.
The original suggestion had this explanation of the Aether:
The Aether is a wide open dimension of Light, Air, Ice, and Water that exists "above" the Overworld, and contrasts with how the Nether is a "Hellish" enclosed dimension of Darkness, Rock, Fire, and Lava that exists "below" the Overworld. It consists primarily of open area of sky, clouds and floating islands, some small, some massive. These consist primarily of sand, gravel, water, and ice towards their surface, stone or mossy cobblestone towards their base, and a number of specialty blocks that are only found in the Aether spread throughout
Notice the bolded parts: what happened to this? Instead of being a dimension of "light, air, ice, and water," it became an over-saturated Overworld, complete with trees and grass, floating in the sky.
You've added several new ores, which are interesting, for sure: but are unrecognizable from the thread. You would think that the developers would at least implement the first few things on the page, but nope.
Where are the Daey system, Aetherock, Galestone, Flowvein, Floatsand, or Crystals?
There weren't even that many things on the original suggestion!
I realize that as modders, you have the right to add or remove whatever you like- it's your mod, after all. But you could have stayed much truer to the original suggestion.
Don't get me wrong: I love the things like dungeon rewards, Moas, Pigasi, and the clouds. But the monotonous terrain, frustrating boss battles, and the big differences from the original thread bring the mod down from where it should be.
Here's to hoping they will be improved upon in the future.
not trying to be pessimistic, but why did you make the portal summon thingy out of glowtone, since glow stone comes from the nether? why not diamonds?
:ohmy.gif:
not trying to be pessimistic, but why did you make the portal summon thingy out of glowtone, since glow stone comes from the nether? why not diamonds?
:ohmy.gif:
It adds a sense of progression, rather than having you go collect 90-126 rare diamonds to make diamond blocks.
Glowstone Dust must be gathered and formed into blocks, which prevents people from accessing Aether until first going to Nether. I believe this creates staging that is essential for keeping players from being bogged down by all the different worlds to access right from the start of the game, while using resources already present in the game, and additionally draw connection to Aether being a "light" realm.
The only mobs which directly attack you are the Bosses and the Cockatrices. Otherwise, we have quite a few mobs which use indirect damage (such as Swets and Zephyrs). What you need to understand is that not everything that is suggested in the thread actually works when carried over to the game; trust me, we had a version of the mod at one point where it was exactly the same as the original suggestion. Unfortunately, it just wasn't as fun as we had hoped. The only difference was that two blocks were missing (Flowvein and Galestone), but otherwise there was just nothing to do there. The blocks were decent fun, but there was no incentive to explore or adventure out to different locations. The terrain was mostly the same all the time, unlike the Overworld which has caves to explore and dungeons. Our solution? Incentives to explore, such as Dungeons, Aechor Plants to tame your flying mounts, a wide variety of cool mobs, and of course we can't forget the dungeon rewards. The rewards themselves are the biggest incentive, because once you've gone back to the overworld you always want to go back and conquer some more (especially once your rewards have degraded). The reasoning behind the new tools was to make it seem like an entirely new and hostile world, where you are no longer "on top". It made the Aether more intimidating, especially with mobs like the Zephyr where you cannot really do much to prevent falling off a cliff, other than carefully placed dirt barricades. On the topic of Ambrosium: we're working on balancing them in 1.02, so do not fear about that.
You say the suggestion is perfectly crafted as if it would work perfectly in-game. However, I can comfortably say it doesn't, especially since we've been playing around with the suggestion thread's ideas for almost 6 months. It's the main reason for the delay, we had to improve upon the existing thread to make it more enjoyable. Anyway, I don't think you could call it a "pretty standard mod", there are almost no other mods like the Aether, especially not with so much content.
Winning is taking a flaming troll's paragraph that insults your work and calmly, methodically refuting it in a way that also acknowledges your own weaknesses. Just remember, King, they hate you because you are awesome. :tongue.gif: Know there is at least one person on these forums who is totally satisfied with your work.
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Thoughts? Suggestions? Random acts of petty fanboyish hatred?
Winning is taking a flaming troll's paragraph that insults your work and calmly, methodically refuting it in a way that also acknowledges your own weaknesses. Just remember, King, they hate you because you are awesome. :tongue.gif: Know there is at least one person on these forums who is totally satisfied with your work.
Do you feel good about yourself? What you're doing is basically making up stuff so it seems everything is better. You're the person who, in a zombie apocalypse, would hide in a corner while the horde slowly beats down the door, muttering to yourself "everything is going to be okay... everything is going to be fine..."
Anyway, while the Aether mod is a little overboard, the idea of certain items that are uncraftable and not found anywhere else is interesting. Perhaps in small patches of trees, there could be "fruit plants" with certain effects.
Also, guys, stop making fun of Notch. I'd like to see you make Minecraft from scratch.
The difference is that the Aether Collab Mod was good enough to actually go create a mod, instead of just wasting time "giving notch ideas". (This isn't off topic)
This would still have been better; we just need someone to actually follow it when modding it.
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Retired StaffEnlighten me, exactly what is so different from the mod and the suggestion?
Sure, there are plenty of things missing (such as Galestone and Flowvein) but we've always planned to add that in future patches, since we preferred to get the mod out so people could just enjoy it. In fact, I think we added more than the original thread proposed, such as fully functional dungeons with reward systems.
Too many extra tools? Tools that cause an item to drop that you can use to heal yourself? I don't think the suggestion thread ever mentioned new tools (I do see a mention of camoflaged armor, however.) A whole block dedicated to hatching moas? I think using the furnace as an incubator would have worked fine.
These are just things that bug me personally looking at the mod thread.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
I agree with this completely. I think the mod could have been more if it had stayed true to the thread.
It's always possible that a more "purist" version could branch off from the mod.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
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Retired StaffThe only mobs which directly attack you are the Bosses and the Cockatrices. Otherwise, we have quite a few mobs which use indirect damage (such as Swets and Zephyrs). What you need to understand is that not everything that is suggested in the thread actually works when carried over to the game; trust me, we had a version of the mod at one point where it was exactly the same as the original suggestion. Unfortunately, it just wasn't as fun as we had hoped. The only difference was that two blocks were missing (Flowvein and Galestone), but otherwise there was just nothing to do there. The blocks were decent fun, but there was no incentive to explore or adventure out to different locations. The terrain was mostly the same all the time, unlike the Overworld which has caves to explore and dungeons. Our solution? Incentives to explore, such as Dungeons, Aechor Plants to tame your flying mounts, a wide variety of cool mobs, and of course we can't forget the dungeon rewards. The rewards themselves are the biggest incentive, because once you've gone back to the overworld you always want to go back and conquer some more (especially once your rewards have degraded). The reasoning behind the new tools was to make it seem like an entirely new and hostile world, where you are no longer "on top". It made the Aether more intimidating, especially with mobs like the Zephyr where you cannot really do much to prevent falling off a cliff, other than carefully placed dirt barricades. On the topic of Ambrosium: we're working on balancing them in 1.02, so do not fear about that.
You say the suggestion is perfectly crafted as if it would work perfectly in-game. However, I can comfortably say it doesn't, especially since we've been playing around with the suggestion thread's ideas for almost 6 months. It's the main reason for the delay, we had to improve upon the existing thread to make it more enjoyable. Anyway, I don't think you could call it a "pretty standard mod", there are almost no other mods like the Aether, especially not with so much content.
I agree the Aether mod turned out nice, (less glitchy than some of Notch's crap of similar caliber) and added a lot, I don't see how the FEW things that the Aether mod hadn't added would have made it a whole lot better, though you spouting that it these items wouldn't work in game is complete BS, you dont even have Aether in SMP yet, and you complain that it would these items wouldn't be balanced. The aether was a great mod, and it wasn't ruined by changing some small bits from the original aether suggestion.
However the major disagreement I have with you is your last paragraph.
"Anyway, I don't think you could call it a "pretty standard mod", there are almost no other mods like the Aether, especially not with so much content."
Wrong, there are many other world mods for minecraft, such as the MANY new nether mods that add just as much content as you guys did, Then you have things like Mo creatures, engicraft and others, which actually add MORE than Aether did. There are many more mods of the same caliber as Aether or higher, this is just the tip of the ice berg, so don't get on your high horse about your mod, its not the best at what it does and its certainly not the only other world mod out there.
But he does have a point
There are so many different things.
First, dungeons.
For one thing, the original suggestion stressed TEMPLES and not dungeons. These are buildings of light, not of darkness, with good intentions: but lots of riches inside! Powerful temple guardians would protect the temples by blasting away any players or placed blocks, ensuring most greedy adventurers would not get inside. The only "dungeons" from the current mod that would really fit in the Aether are the floating Greek temples.
Then the bosses.
The Slider is interesting, and fits the "no-direct hurt" theme of the original Aether the best.
The Valkyries and the Sun Spirit are just random and have nothing to do with the Aether. The Valkyries were fun to fight, and the Sun Boss was just plain annoying, like a scrapped portion of a fight taken from a LoZ game.
Cockatrices, in their original suggestion, were rare swamp-dwelling Overworld creatures that paralyzed you with their gaze before killing you (true to the myth.)
You took this great idea, stuck it in the Aether, hyped up its spawn rate, and made it shoot infinite poison darts.
Then you used Kodaichi's Bellthorn and made it shoot infinite poison darts as well, and its only purpose is food to tame moas.
Aerwhales were supposed to be very rare creatures that dwelled in high mountains and the Aether, and are used to get gas bladders for a hot-air balloon. You've implemented these pretty well, minus the balloons and the spawnrate (which should be fixed soon.)
Zephyrs were also supposed to be mildly rare creatures of mountains and the Aether that would fly right up to you and blow you around with wind (aka: a melee enemy.) You've made them the equivalent of the Ghast: ridiculously common, long range, and annoying.
Then there's the blocks.
The original suggestion had this explanation of the Aether:
Notice the bolded parts: what happened to this? Instead of being a dimension of "light, air, ice, and water," it became an over-saturated Overworld, complete with trees and grass, floating in the sky.
You've added several new ores, which are interesting, for sure: but are unrecognizable from the thread. You would think that the developers would at least implement the first few things on the page, but nope.
Where are the Daey system, Aetherock, Galestone, Flowvein, Floatsand, or Crystals?
There weren't even that many things on the original suggestion!
I realize that as modders, you have the right to add or remove whatever you like- it's your mod, after all. But you could have stayed much truer to the original suggestion.
Don't get me wrong: I love the things like dungeon rewards, Moas, Pigasi, and the clouds. But the monotonous terrain, frustrating boss battles, and the big differences from the original thread bring the mod down from where it should be.
Here's to hoping they will be improved upon in the future.
:ohmy.gif:
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Winning is taking a flaming troll's paragraph that insults your work and calmly, methodically refuting it in a way that also acknowledges your own weaknesses. Just remember, King, they hate you because you are awesome. :tongue.gif: Know there is at least one person on these forums who is totally satisfied with your work.
Do you feel good about yourself? What you're doing is basically making up stuff so it seems everything is better. You're the person who, in a zombie apocalypse, would hide in a corner while the horde slowly beats down the door, muttering to yourself "everything is going to be okay... everything is going to be fine..."
Anyway, while the Aether mod is a little overboard, the idea of certain items that are uncraftable and not found anywhere else is interesting. Perhaps in small patches of trees, there could be "fruit plants" with certain effects.