Alright. when you put it that way, all "ingredients" for the Ether portal should be found in the same place as the ingredients for the Nether portal, (maybe Diamonds?). It doesn't make much sense to force us to travel to the Nether (for the Lightstone) to then travel to the Ether because we're not forced to originally travel anywhere (other than into a mine) to get the Obsidian for the Nether portal.
you want the Portal to the ether to be built out of diamond blocks?
I know, when I hit submit I got to thinking and yeah...Lol.
alright, what about just using Obsidian and water? since basically Water is the opposite to Fire, and the Ether is the opposite to the Nether. Makes sense to me. they'd both be the same difficulty to get to, and you wouldn't have to travel to one or the other if you didn't want to.
Quote from Heho »
Getting to nether is quite hard and depends on your luck aswell as on the time you spend in a mine. Getting to Ether should be equally hard and should not need you to got to nether first. It should be an oppisite. I suggested marble as the portal material. This also makes sense(as it is white... obsidian is mostly black) and can be done the same way:
obsidian => pour water on lava.
marble => pour lava on chalk(chalk is common. It forms chalk cliffs sometimes and can be found under the surface in tilings. Deeper under the earth it is found near lava...)
To mine marble you need a diamond pick aswell. Then you put <something> in there and the portal is created. The <something> shouldnt be fire but somehow equivalent. Mayble plant a sappling(I guess that is a good idea)
How is planting a sapling more of an opposite to fire than pouring water? also, wouldn't Marble require Notch adding a new block type?
did you seriously spell machine wrong o.o and we already have boats as parachutes, so meh >3<
Have you never heard of intentional spelling errors? Why would I want to float between islands on a boat that is parachute? I would much rather want an actual in-game parachute. I am all for simplifying things but that is just simplifying too much :tongue.gif:
Alright, here is my 2 cents on this topic. I believe that instead of having a portal to get to the Ether, we should have it be high above the ground. While increasing the sky box would be one option to get up there, I think a more useful idea would to have it when you hit the top of the map, another chunk is Stack on top of the chunk below it. That way, the only way to get up to the Ether would to get enough overworld resources to build an Airship, as seen in Quill's thread. (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9987&hilit=Airships). But you might say, "But what if you fall so fast that it doesn't load the chunk beneath you?!?" Mystify has solved that problem by saying:
Quote from Mystify »
I think there is a more comprehensive solution.
Part 1: Metadata on the height of the world.
Separate from the chunks is a data structure that stores the height of the highest block in each vertical column. This might need to be 2 values: the highest solid block adn the highest opaque block(so snow and light can both work). This should solve all of the sunlight issues, and should be easy to code and maintain.
Part 2. Waterflow
A couple of simple rules can make the water work on the boundires.
rule 1. water flowing from an unloaded chunk will assume it has a source until the chunk is loaded.
rule 2. water flowing into an unloaded chunk will simply stop, as if it hit a solid floor, only it won't spread. It will continue flowing once the chunk is loaded.
This should allow water to work across the vertical chunks without any serious issues. There may be hiccups if two people are at the top and bottom of huge waterfall, so huge that the middle is unloaded. The top person could cut off the waterflow, and the bottom person would not see a cut off in the waterfall. However, this is an edge case, and it will correct itself as soon as something causes the intermediate area to load.
Part 3. Fall limiting
Easy solution: make any fall of more than x blocks lethal, no matter what. This should be balanced such that if you fall so far that it can't keep up, you simply die. Falling into water from extreme heights can cease to be safe(just like in real life), so the assumption that the fall will be lethal anyways can be guaranteed. Controlled methods of descent(ladders, minecarts, stairs) should be slow enough to not cause a problem.
Any other issue that need to be addressed?
Note: That is originally from a thread about expanding underground spaces. (viewtopic.php?t=42307)
Comments anybody?
We've already talked about Ether being above the overworld, and being able to fall from the Ether into the overworld. However the ability to use your idea depends entirely on being able to increase the map height to accommodate that. It may be possible, but it may not be possible, so I don't like to get to invested in something that is known to have problems.
Mystify had made this suggestion in another thread (can't remember which) and I pointed out that it was unreasonable to kill the player just for falling X number of blocks when it would be entirely possible for the player to land in water and be okay. Instead of outright killing the player during a long fall, they would instead black in and out as they fell. When the game blacked out, it would no longer need to render anything, and could then focus its calculations entirely on locating the blocks directly below the player's general vicinity even with the fast falling speeds, and then only bring back the vision as the player approached landing on something, at which point what they hit woudl decide whether they lived or died.
Well, In reality if I fell a massive distance from the sky and landed in water, I would not be ok. I'm also not too fond of the idea that the game would black out if I fell a long enough distance. I have many friends who are new players, and if the game began blacking out during a long fall, then they would believe that there computer was having problems. The reason I want the Ether to be on top of the normal world is because I don't want to have many different portals all over the place, although if that is necessary I will be ok with that. So maybe if you go up to the ether in an airship, then a loading screen will start, and if you fall back down there will be another loading screen? Just throwing out ideas.
As long as the black out effect was done right (like if it had the black come in as a tunnel vision effect that closed off to straight black) it would be obvious that it was the game doing it. and so what if you wouldn't be fine hitting water like that in real life? I can go to the top of the current map and fall all the way down to adminium level and as long as I hit 2 blocks deep of water, I'll be fine. The player reaches terminal velocity WELL before that mark, so why would hitting the water at the same speed, but from starting higher up be any more dangerous?
Oh I see what you are getting at there. I thought you were meaning that the game would just turn black all of a sudden. But what I mean here is that if in REALITY, if I jumped from a huge cliff and landed in a lake, I would die from impacting the water due to the surface tension. But then again, this is Minecraft and realism isn't too much of a factor. So yea, with the blackout, I guess Ether above the world could work, if others approved of it.
I wouldn't be opposed to the Ether being accesable by simply going up, I think a portal would be interesting too though. I've been trying to wrap my head around it. I kinda think a tree portal could be kinda cool. May planting a tree under special conditions and it could grow into a portal tree. Not sure what the conditions would be though.
Some ideas I've had while at work: (I'm going to make some graphical representations when I get home in few hours)
Etherstone - A block that looks like, or is very resemblant to, normal stone. However, it is ethereal and you can pass through it like still water blocks. This means you could fall through it if you mistake a floor of Etherstone for stone. It could be mined, but probably only with gold equipment (gold being a material that has mystical natural properties, kinda like silver effecting mythical creatures and such) as it is not quite solid. Could have some interesting uses for building projects.
Crystal - A block that would be spawned in large crystaline formations jutting from the floating islands. The crystal is transluscent and actually magnifies light. The basic effect would be that the computer recognizes the side of the block with the highest ligh exposure (defaulting on the sky facing side if there are more than one) and on the opposite side, it finds the next non-air block within say three to five blocks and catchs it on fire. This fire would re-light if extinguished without removing the crystal. Could be some really cool trap setups with this and lightstone and torches or whatnot.
Skystone - A block that can be placed in empty air spaces. Would allow you to create platforms out in the middle of the void between islands as well as make bridges easier. This would be an ore that you'd have to smelt to make Skystone, or possible the block would drop dust and you'd have to assemble blocks. Every floating island would have Skystone veins running through it.
Songstone - A block that would be hollowed out in the middle, if two or more faces are exposed, it will create a constant, but gentle, gust of air. If you align several you can increase the strength of the gust. The songstone would also make whistling sounds while active. Could be controlled with redstone perhaps or if something like the bridge mod gets made official, we can have it set up to block the one open side to stop the airflow.
These ideas are still fresh, so help me refine them!
Etherstone is an excellent idea and would both be dangerous in a place like the Ether, but also highly sought after for creating secret doors. How would you mine it thought? Perhaps it would be impossible to do directly, but would require you to mine all of its surrounding physical blocks? (Etherstone blocks would be placeable on other Eherstone blocks, but if a physical block was added to its side, and then removed, the Etherstone that was left only touching another block of Etherstone and no other physical blocks would then break as well)
The Song stone needs to create whistling noises at higher and lower pitches correlating to faster and slower wind speeds. It should be on by default, but it should be possible to turn it off using redstone torches and switches, which would allow the player to build their own giant pipe organ.
Skystone would be hard as heck to code. I don't think the potential gains would be worth the effort.
I like the idea of crystal being able to redirect light, but not the part about it being able to catch things on fire, at least not in the Ether. If you can catch things on fire in the Ether, then you could also build a portal directly connecting the Ether and the Nether, which I think should be impossible to do. That's why I also felt that water should be the method of activating the Ether portal; so that a portal to the Ether can't be generated in the Nether. It also brings a duality to the two realms, you can't put water into the Nether, you can't put fire into the Ether.
I think gold could become the catch-all material for dealing with non-material stuff. I'm planning on doing the wind creature, and I was thinking that gold could be the key to attacking them as well.
The changes in pitch for the Songstone are my thougts exactly. Creating cool in game music would be awesome.
I agree with the skystone issue. I'm not sure how to resolve it, but I think it's worth attention to see what we can come up with.
The crystal need not make actual fire, though I think we could just set it up so that nether portals just extinguish instantly. The crystal could be the only way to sustain fire, but it still wouldn't keep a nether portal going. Plus it would have to be directly over it in order to catch the bottom obsidian on fire, which would make the crystal block in the area that would become the portal, breaking the portal and preventing it from happening.
I love the idea of etherstone, but if walking along a floor while sneaking and you ran into a patch of etherstone, would you just keep on walking and fall through, or would it be treated as an edge?
Skystone seems like it would be very hard to place, considering while looking of into the air there isn't little markings around which air block you are looking at.
As for Crystal, love the idea, but maybe a way to prevent it from always shooting fire off? Maybe if you refine them, you could make them redstone activated? Just shooting out ideas.
And Songstone, I look forward to making a giant organ that plays the Mario Theme at a push of a Button! :biggrin.gif:
I think gold could become the catch-all material for dealing with non-material stuff. I'm planning on doing the wind creature, and I was thinking that gold could be the key to attacking them as well.
The changes in pitch for the Songstone are my thougts exactly. Creating cool in game music would be awesome.
I agree with the skystone issue. I'm not sure how to resolve it, but I think it's worth attention to see what we can come up with.
The crystal need not make actual fire, though I think we could just set it up so that nether portals just extinguish instantly. The crystal could be the only way to sustain fire, but it still wouldn't keep a nether portal going. Plus it would have to be directly over it in order to catch the bottom obsidian on fire, which would make the crystal block in the area that would become the portal, breaking the portal and preventing it from happening.
The gold idea is cool, still not totally convinced on the crystals, but you're right about being able to get them to self block themselves when trying to use them to light Nether Portals. I suppose as long as removing the crystal INSTANTLY puts out the fire, then it wouldn't be a huge issue.
Walking onto a patch of Etherstone would cause you to fall (slowly). You could conceivibly use the jump button to get back to the surface, as with swimming. But if you don't act fast enough you could fall into a pit.
Something else that could be cool with gold. If we make it so gold can effect Etherstone, gold boots could let you walk across it.
Yeah, I also think there should be a minimum light level that creates the crystal effect. Like 15 (daylight/lightstone). Reducing the light level would cease the effect. It could also just create a lazer effect that would burn you and not fire. I'm not married to fire, just to burning!
Just keep in mind, we had originally been looking at the idea that daytime actually produces so much light that it's as much too bright to see as the overworld is too dark to see during night. Whereas "night" in the Ether is as bright as regular daylight in on the overworld. I just seriously love that reversal concept.
It also strengthens the concept that Ether isn't just a nice paradise. Oh it might be a peaceful paradise, but only for those souls that belong there.
The crystal burning effect you suggested Firehazurd would be almost the same effect as the Magnifying Spectral beams in the spectral beam thread. (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25716&hilit=redstone+beams) And I like the idea of falling slowly through Etherstone. Maybe there would be a way to change what it looks like so you can make it blend into the area around it? Or there could be different kinds of it?
Edit: That was weird. My original edit didn't show up. Oh well.
Anyway, Maybe crystal in the Ether would become harmful in higher light levels. (16+?) That way, when the brighter day comes, those crystals would become dangerous.
Maybe instead of the Crystal setting fire to stuff when in day light no matter what, how about you have to combine it with something on the Work Bench to make a kind of laser pointer that sets fire to flammable objects?
Not sure if you were talking about the light needed for the crystal, but yeah, basically anything beneath fully exposed crystal would get burnt in the Ether. If you brought it down below the Ether, then you would need sunlight/lightstone to make it work.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
I know, when I hit submit I got to thinking and yeah...Lol.
alright, what about just using Obsidian and water? since basically Water is the opposite to Fire, and the Ether is the opposite to the Nether. Makes sense to me. they'd both be the same difficulty to get to, and you wouldn't have to travel to one or the other if you didn't want to.
How is planting a sapling more of an opposite to fire than pouring water? also, wouldn't Marble require Notch adding a new block type?
Have you never heard of intentional spelling errors? Why would I want to float between islands on a boat that is parachute? I would much rather want an actual in-game parachute. I am all for simplifying things but that is just simplifying too much :tongue.gif:
Note: That is originally from a thread about expanding underground spaces. (viewtopic.php?t=42307)
Comments anybody?
Spam makes the world go 'round.
Mystify had made this suggestion in another thread (can't remember which) and I pointed out that it was unreasonable to kill the player just for falling X number of blocks when it would be entirely possible for the player to land in water and be okay. Instead of outright killing the player during a long fall, they would instead black in and out as they fell. When the game blacked out, it would no longer need to render anything, and could then focus its calculations entirely on locating the blocks directly below the player's general vicinity even with the fast falling speeds, and then only bring back the vision as the player approached landing on something, at which point what they hit woudl decide whether they lived or died.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Spam makes the world go 'round.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Spam makes the world go 'round.
Some ideas I've had while at work: (I'm going to make some graphical representations when I get home in few hours)
Etherstone - A block that looks like, or is very resemblant to, normal stone. However, it is ethereal and you can pass through it like still water blocks. This means you could fall through it if you mistake a floor of Etherstone for stone. It could be mined, but probably only with gold equipment (gold being a material that has mystical natural properties, kinda like silver effecting mythical creatures and such) as it is not quite solid. Could have some interesting uses for building projects.
Crystal - A block that would be spawned in large crystaline formations jutting from the floating islands. The crystal is transluscent and actually magnifies light. The basic effect would be that the computer recognizes the side of the block with the highest ligh exposure (defaulting on the sky facing side if there are more than one) and on the opposite side, it finds the next non-air block within say three to five blocks and catchs it on fire. This fire would re-light if extinguished without removing the crystal. Could be some really cool trap setups with this and lightstone and torches or whatnot.
Skystone - A block that can be placed in empty air spaces. Would allow you to create platforms out in the middle of the void between islands as well as make bridges easier. This would be an ore that you'd have to smelt to make Skystone, or possible the block would drop dust and you'd have to assemble blocks. Every floating island would have Skystone veins running through it.
Songstone - A block that would be hollowed out in the middle, if two or more faces are exposed, it will create a constant, but gentle, gust of air. If you align several you can increase the strength of the gust. The songstone would also make whistling sounds while active. Could be controlled with redstone perhaps or if something like the bridge mod gets made official, we can have it set up to block the one open side to stop the airflow.
These ideas are still fresh, so help me refine them!
The Song stone needs to create whistling noises at higher and lower pitches correlating to faster and slower wind speeds. It should be on by default, but it should be possible to turn it off using redstone torches and switches, which would allow the player to build their own giant pipe organ.
Skystone would be hard as heck to code. I don't think the potential gains would be worth the effort.
I like the idea of crystal being able to redirect light, but not the part about it being able to catch things on fire, at least not in the Ether. If you can catch things on fire in the Ether, then you could also build a portal directly connecting the Ether and the Nether, which I think should be impossible to do. That's why I also felt that water should be the method of activating the Ether portal; so that a portal to the Ether can't be generated in the Nether. It also brings a duality to the two realms, you can't put water into the Nether, you can't put fire into the Ether.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
The changes in pitch for the Songstone are my thougts exactly. Creating cool in game music would be awesome.
I agree with the skystone issue. I'm not sure how to resolve it, but I think it's worth attention to see what we can come up with.
The crystal need not make actual fire, though I think we could just set it up so that nether portals just extinguish instantly. The crystal could be the only way to sustain fire, but it still wouldn't keep a nether portal going. Plus it would have to be directly over it in order to catch the bottom obsidian on fire, which would make the crystal block in the area that would become the portal, breaking the portal and preventing it from happening.
Skystone seems like it would be very hard to place, considering while looking of into the air there isn't little markings around which air block you are looking at.
As for Crystal, love the idea, but maybe a way to prevent it from always shooting fire off? Maybe if you refine them, you could make them redstone activated? Just shooting out ideas.
And Songstone, I look forward to making a giant organ that plays the Mario Theme at a push of a Button! :biggrin.gif:
Spam makes the world go 'round.
The gold idea is cool, still not totally convinced on the crystals, but you're right about being able to get them to self block themselves when trying to use them to light Nether Portals. I suppose as long as removing the crystal INSTANTLY puts out the fire, then it wouldn't be a huge issue.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Something else that could be cool with gold. If we make it so gold can effect Etherstone, gold boots could let you walk across it.
Yeah, I also think there should be a minimum light level that creates the crystal effect. Like 15 (daylight/lightstone). Reducing the light level would cease the effect. It could also just create a lazer effect that would burn you and not fire. I'm not married to fire, just to burning!
It also strengthens the concept that Ether isn't just a nice paradise. Oh it might be a peaceful paradise, but only for those souls that belong there.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Edit: That was weird. My original edit didn't show up. Oh well.
Anyway, Maybe crystal in the Ether would become harmful in higher light levels. (16+?) That way, when the brighter day comes, those crystals would become dangerous.
Spam makes the world go 'round.