Yay! I'm in the main post! I feel special!
But yeah, you're right it's mostly a fun idea with mostly no real purpose except for treasures, epic sword duels and that you'd probably get a really creepy feeling when you heard the creepy music that plays when they're near.
When I first began reading, I was like "HELL YEAH!" But as I went on, I realized you weren't just talking about making the ocean more realistic and better. I agreed with you up to the point of having fish mobs, better light penetration, more blocks for underwater, and more diverse terrain. But when you began talking about scuba suits, boats, and natural disasters I lost interest. (Although the underwater lighting thing is also a good idea.)
It's kinda hard to explain, but minecraft is a simple game. If you start going crazy with the crafting, it becomes too complex. So with the boat thing... WHOAH. It's crazy. Maybe just adding a cargo boat and a furnace boat, like with minecarts, which you can tie to your boat, but creating different hulls and such whatnot is a bit too extreme I think. However, Notch might be able to take your boat suggestion and clean it up just enough to make it work. Who knows.
As for the underwater breathing (Scuba suits and masks) I REALLY don't want those in game. It would nearly remove the toughness and fun of building underwater, and would nullify the entire idea of it being dangerous, as you wanted. Maybe (once again...) something a bit more simple, as in a mask alone, which increases your bubbliness by a bit, but beyond that you might as well make one of these.
[]
It can be built at the bottom of the ocean to create an air bubble, and it would also remove the need for the bubbling machine that some people were discussing.
That's what minecraft is about: Finding clever solutions to your problems, not making an object that does it for you.
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Hello? Eat my tarts? In this cosmic dance of bursting decadence, withheld permissions twist all our arms collectively. But if sweetness can win- and it can- then I'll still be here tomorrow to high five you yesterday my friend. Peace.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, not feeling like reading 21 pages (I used the search function), but fire is also known as the rapid oxidation in the chemical process of combustion (./wikipedia), meaning, it needs a steady supply of oxygen to keep on burning.
tldr: Simply said, no air means no torches. Other than that, great thread!
What do you propose can be used as an underwater light source that works?
Also, I'll have to say that this game is not the most realistic in the world, it has a solid grounding in reality, but things can be bent to a certain extent in order for things to, well, be entertaining and work.
When I first began reading, I was like "HELL YEAH!" But as I went on, I realized you weren't just talking about making the ocean more realistic and better. I agreed with you up to the point of having fish mobs, better light penetration, more blocks for underwater, and more diverse terrain. But when you began talking about scuba suits, boats, and natural disasters I lost interest. (Although the underwater lighting thing is also a good idea.)
It's kinda hard to explain, but minecraft is a simple game. If you start going crazy with the crafting, it becomes too complex. So with the boat thing... WHOAH. It's crazy. Maybe just adding a cargo boat and a furnace boat, like with minecarts, which you can tie to your boat, but creating different hulls and such whatnot is a bit too extreme I think. However, Notch might be able to take your boat suggestion and clean it up just enough to make it work. Who knows.
As for the underwater breathing (Scuba suits and masks) I REALLY don't want those in game. It would nearly remove the toughness and fun of building underwater, and would nullify the entire idea of it being dangerous, as you wanted. Maybe (once again...) something a bit more simple, as in a mask alone, which increases your bubbliness by a bit, but beyond that you might as well make one of these.
[]
It can be built at the bottom of the ocean to create an air bubble, and it would also remove the need for the bubbling machine that some people were discussing.
That's what minecraft is about: Finding clever solutions to your problems, not making an object that does it for you.
First of all, I will say to you Notch does intend to add super-entities eventually (IE, huge boats among other things). And while I agree MC does have a good amount of gameplay rooted in using the things around you to make things work, but this doesn't mean the mentioned items can't be added. Its like those people who scream at people who mention they play on peaceful. The items make it easier, like peaceful makes it easier, it doesn't mean peaceful shouldn't exist.
Also, scuba gear makes it possible to explore and collect materials down underwater. If I had a limited amount of air, I would only be able to go down there, mine up a block, go back up, and repeat. If I had to do that, I would rather not enter the water at all. Heck, I might not be able to reach the sea floor at all, seeing as how it will be much deeper.
When I first began reading, I was like "HELL YEAH!" But as I went on, I realized you weren't just talking about making the ocean more realistic and better. I agreed with you up to the point of having fish mobs, better light penetration, more blocks for underwater, and more diverse terrain. But when you began talking about scuba suits, boats, and natural disasters I lost interest. (Although the underwater lighting thing is also a good idea.)
It's kinda hard to explain, but minecraft is a simple game. If you start going crazy with the crafting, it becomes too complex. So with the boat thing... WHOAH. It's crazy. Maybe just adding a cargo boat and a furnace boat, like with minecarts, which you can tie to your boat, but creating different hulls and such whatnot is a bit too extreme I think. However, Notch might be able to take your boat suggestion and clean it up just enough to make it work. Who knows.
As for the underwater breathing (Scuba suits and masks) I REALLY don't want those in game. It would nearly remove the toughness and fun of building underwater, and would nullify the entire idea of it being dangerous, as you wanted. Maybe (once again...) something a bit more simple, as in a mask alone, which increases your bubbliness by a bit, but beyond that you might as well make one of these.
[]
It can be built at the bottom of the ocean to create an air bubble, and it would also remove the need for the bubbling machine that some people were discussing.
That's what minecraft is about: Finding clever solutions to your problems, not making an object that does it for you.
First of all, I will say to you Notch does intend to add super-entities eventually (IE, huge boats among other things). And while I agree MC does have a good amount of gameplay rooted in using the things around you to make things work, but this doesn't mean the mentioned items can't be added. Its like those people who scream at people who mention they play on peaceful. The items make it easier, like peaceful makes it easier, it doesn't mean peaceful shouldn't exist.
Also, scuba gear makes it possible to explore and collect materials down underwater. If I had a limited amount of air, I would only be able to go down there, mine up a block, go back up, and repeat. If I had to do that, I would rather not enter the water at all. Heck, I might not be able to reach the sea floor at all, seeing as how it will be much deeper.
When you talk about you not being able to swim directly to the bottom of the ocean floor (when it becomes deeper) THATS THE POINT. It's not supposed to be easy to get to such a place. I understand what you mean, but you are forgetting something: When it comes to single player, sure the player has the choice how hard to make the game. But in multiplayer the entire group operates with the same rules.
So what if I don't want to make it easy by using such objects in my server, but another player does? He would easily do so, without me being able to even it out. But maybe we might be able to come to a compromise:
1. Servers can choose which items to allow and which not to allow (A lot of trouble...)
2. Such items only appear on peaceful mode.
I would probably prefer 2, as it makes it easier for admins of servers, and also prevents people from having an unfair advantage, both over other players and over mobs.
As far as the super-entities or whatever are concerned, I think it's a bad idea. (With the same logic as previous statements.) It's the equivalent of having a building super-entity: Instead of actually having to build a shelter you just place one! At this point, what are you really building, if anything?
Of course, people will point out that you really can't build a working boat. So this is where I think we can make a REAL improvement: Maybe turn a bit towards GM ideology and add some sort of glue or something. And make certian types of blocks that are "freefloating", and able to move around. So maybe we could actually put together our own boat piece by piece?
Just sayin.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hello? Eat my tarts? In this cosmic dance of bursting decadence, withheld permissions twist all our arms collectively. But if sweetness can win- and it can- then I'll still be here tomorrow to high five you yesterday my friend. Peace.
I think this is a wonderful Idea. I've always loved the ocean, but anyway a submarine I think is a bit too high tech for this game. I feel some thing more like a diving bell is a lot simpler and would fit the feel of the game a lot more. It would also be easier to fit in our 3x3 building limitation. Another thing is the under water lighting limitation only seems to be if your in the water, meaning that you can place a whole bunch of light stone down and build a little under water hut out of glass you can actually see a little farther in the water. I'm not exactlly sure but if you block out the moon at night to you can see even farther.
But don't quote me on that.
I think that you would be able to do some cool things with under water plants like the seaweed. You could harvest it like (that plant I can't remeber the name of. the one you make paper out of) or it could actually be a hindrance that slows you down if you move through it. The sponge could actually be a plant that you harvest (a.k.a. sea sponge) Something else that would be cool would be a new tool like a spade.
e.x. for spade
[] []
(and on like that with all the other tool making material.)
e.x. for diving bell. [] []
or [] [] = weights
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IF I HELP YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM DON'T BE AFRAID TO CLICKITY CLACK THAT (+) IN THE LOWER RIGHT, THANKS
I think this is a wonderful Idea. I've always loved the ocean, but anyway a submarine I think is a bit too high tech for this game. I feel some thing more like a diving bell is a lot simpler and would fit the feel of the game a lot more. It would also be easier to fit in our 3x3 building limitation. Another thing is the under water lighting limitation only seems to be if your in the water, meaning that you can place a whole bunch of light stone down and build a little under water hut out of glass you can actually see a little farther in the water. I'm not exactlly sure but if you block out the moon at night to you can see even farther.
But don't quote me on that.
I think that you would be able to do some cool things with under water plants like the seaweed. You could harvest it like (that plant I can't remeber the name of. the one you make paper out of) or it could actually be a hindrance that slows you down if you move through it. The sponge could actually be a plant that you harvest (a.k.a. sea sponge) Something else that would be cool would be a new tool like a spade.
e.x. for spade
[] []
(and on like that with all the other tool making material.)
e.x. for diving bell. [] []
or [] [] = weights
Bringing this back to my last post, we could make wood blocks float in water and stone blocks sink, so that this wouldn't actually need to be crafted, but instead could be built.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hello? Eat my tarts? In this cosmic dance of bursting decadence, withheld permissions twist all our arms collectively. But if sweetness can win- and it can- then I'll still be here tomorrow to high five you yesterday my friend. Peace.
As far as the super-entities or whatever are concerned, I think it's a bad idea. (With the same logic as previous statements.) It's the equivalent of having a building super-entity: Instead of actually having to build a shelter you just place one! At this point, what are you really building, if anything?
Of course, people will point out that you really can't build a working boat. So this is where I think we can make a REAL improvement: Maybe turn a bit towards GM ideology and add some sort of glue or something. And make certian types of blocks that are "freefloating", and able to move around. So maybe we could actually put together our own boat piece by piece?
Just sayin.
Quite the contrary. The entity system he wishes to implement would mean you don't actually place a boat, you have to build one. You gather blocks, then use some as-yet undefined system to place them in whatever shape you want, within a set of rules of reason, then the game will compile the blocks into a single, large entity to be processed, essentially, like a large boat, with its own, unique boundaries and physics. (Game-rendered speed, maneuverability, etcetera) This improves gameplay by adding a feature (I would imagine the original boat wouldn't be removed) that players can either take part in, for their own reward for playing for time and collecting resources, or choose not to, because they don't like the idea.
If adding a gameplay feature comes without subtracting any other, and you don't like the new one, there is no need to complain about it, because you simply don't need to participate in it. If you don't want scuba, don't take scuba. But, if it's possible, and I want it, and many others do, why should your disdain prevent us from our fun? Instead, our fun should be granted, and you should make the decision to use other fun parts of the game engine (such as diving with no scuba) that aren't affected. If I sound like a hypocrite, I don't mean to. I'm only saying adding things lets you choose what you use.
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Who doesn't like Mustard Yellow?
-SchizophrenicMC
Why do we have a Suggestions section if everyone shoots everyone else down? I suggest renaming it the Flame War section. Pun intended.
As far as the super-entities or whatever are concerned, I think it's a bad idea. (With the same logic as previous statements.) It's the equivalent of having a building super-entity: Instead of actually having to build a shelter you just place one! At this point, what are you really building, if anything?
Of course, people will point out that you really can't build a working boat. So this is where I think we can make a REAL improvement: Maybe turn a bit towards GM ideology and add some sort of glue or something. And make certian types of blocks that are "freefloating", and able to move around. So maybe we could actually put together our own boat piece by piece?
Just sayin.
Quite the contrary. The entity system he wishes to implement would mean you don't actually place a boat, you have to... [TIMESKIP!!!] saying adding things lets you choose what you use.
OOOOOOH! I thought it was just even bigger crafting screens! This was kind of what I was thinking of, I didn't realize that was what it was... Thanks for clearing that up. I do agree, that sounds awesome. When did he announce that? (I just heard of it in this thread...) And when does he plan to implement it? Though I can't imagine how he would be able to do that... But whatever. If he does manage to do it, then it'll be epic.
And about the scuba gear, my point was that I CAN'T just choose not to be a part of it. It would affect me one way or another... (Griefers have easy access to deep underwater bases! ) But I guess I'll take one for the team. :tongue.gif: But I hope they aren't as extreme as it is shown here, allowing you to stay underwater so long... But I really do hope Notch does make either an underwater light source, or just simply make the lantern he claims to be working on work underwater. (Glass covering, right?)
[EDIT]
That explains why I said this: "Bringing this back to my last post, we could make wood blocks float in water and stone blocks sink, so that this wouldn't actually need to be crafted, but instead could be built." I was thinking that you would just craft these things, and I would prefer you build it out of the blocks he already had.
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Hello? Eat my tarts? In this cosmic dance of bursting decadence, withheld permissions twist all our arms collectively. But if sweetness can win- and it can- then I'll still be here tomorrow to high five you yesterday my friend. Peace.
Do you think we could have a Mariana's Trench and fill it with a Megalodon, tons of large sharks, giant orcas, plesiosaurs, giant squid, moby ****, leviathan, poseidon?
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Quote from icecruiser »
once i had 7 diamond and 6 iron, i realllllllly hate odd numbers so i threw a diamond out and it landed it lava...but i didnt go crazy because at least they were even!
Bringing this back to my last post, we could make wood blocks float in water and stone blocks sink, so that this wouldn't actually need to be crafted, but instead could be built.
Good point. However an object such as the one I proposed would be like an upside down boat, meaning you would be able to pick it up and move it around at will. Were as something you would build if you wanted to move it around it would requiring you to de-assemble and re-assemble. Remember if your floating in the middle of the ocean resources are going to be scarce.
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IF I HELP YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM DON'T BE AFRAID TO CLICKITY CLACK THAT (+) IN THE LOWER RIGHT, THANKS
Environment: Near the shore
AI: Neutral (Special)
Drop: Carapace
Misc: A none hostile mob that if fed will defend you from enemies at night.
A common to uncommon mob, they scuttle the shore line looking for food. Usually in groups of three, it is most likely to roam the beach alone. It will be unwise to attack this creature, not only because of its one massive and destructive claw will tear you to shreds, but because its main enemies are your enemies.
If fed a certain food (seeds, ham, bread) it will group up with you at night, following you for the duration for the night, fighting off zombies, skeletons and, bravely, creepers before wandering off once day breaks. Depending on what you feed it , it will stay with you for a longer time.
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I know, hopefully it will be an interesting one :biggrin.gif:
Also, I'll add the pirate idea when I feel like it. First day back to school for me, and I feel worn out a bit.
You too? -.-
My first project: underwater fish farm outpost for my civilization.
Don't let it end up like Rapture or Atlantis =P
Heh, you're welcome.
It's kinda hard to explain, but minecraft is a simple game. If you start going crazy with the crafting, it becomes too complex. So with the boat thing... WHOAH. It's crazy. Maybe just adding a cargo boat and a furnace boat, like with minecarts, which you can tie to your boat, but creating different hulls and such whatnot is a bit too extreme I think. However, Notch might be able to take your boat suggestion and clean it up just enough to make it work. Who knows.
As for the underwater breathing (Scuba suits and masks) I REALLY don't want those in game. It would nearly remove the toughness and fun of building underwater, and would nullify the entire idea of it being dangerous, as you wanted. Maybe (once again...) something a bit more simple, as in a mask alone, which increases your bubbliness by a bit, but beyond that you might as well make one of these.
It can be built at the bottom of the ocean to create an air bubble, and it would also remove the need for the bubbling machine that some people were discussing.
That's what minecraft is about: Finding clever solutions to your problems, not making an object that does it for you.
What do you propose can be used as an underwater light source that works?
Also, I'll have to say that this game is not the most realistic in the world, it has a solid grounding in reality, but things can be bent to a certain extent in order for things to, well, be entertaining and work.
First of all, I will say to you Notch does intend to add super-entities eventually (IE, huge boats among other things). And while I agree MC does have a good amount of gameplay rooted in using the things around you to make things work, but this doesn't mean the mentioned items can't be added. Its like those people who scream at people who mention they play on peaceful. The items make it easier, like peaceful makes it easier, it doesn't mean peaceful shouldn't exist.
Also, scuba gear makes it possible to explore and collect materials down underwater. If I had a limited amount of air, I would only be able to go down there, mine up a block, go back up, and repeat. If I had to do that, I would rather not enter the water at all. Heck, I might not be able to reach the sea floor at all, seeing as how it will be much deeper.
When you talk about you not being able to swim directly to the bottom of the ocean floor (when it becomes deeper) THATS THE POINT. It's not supposed to be easy to get to such a place. I understand what you mean, but you are forgetting something: When it comes to single player, sure the player has the choice how hard to make the game. But in multiplayer the entire group operates with the same rules.
So what if I don't want to make it easy by using such objects in my server, but another player does? He would easily do so, without me being able to even it out. But maybe we might be able to come to a compromise:
1. Servers can choose which items to allow and which not to allow (A lot of trouble...)
2. Such items only appear on peaceful mode.
I would probably prefer 2, as it makes it easier for admins of servers, and also prevents people from having an unfair advantage, both over other players and over mobs.
As far as the super-entities or whatever are concerned, I think it's a bad idea. (With the same logic as previous statements.) It's the equivalent of having a building super-entity: Instead of actually having to build a shelter you just place one! At this point, what are you really building, if anything?
Of course, people will point out that you really can't build a working boat. So this is where I think we can make a REAL improvement: Maybe turn a bit towards GM ideology and add some sort of glue or something. And make certian types of blocks that are "freefloating", and able to move around. So maybe we could actually put together our own boat piece by piece?
Just sayin.
e.x. for spade
[]
(and on like that with all the other tool making material.)
e.x. for diving bell.
or
Bringing this back to my last post, we could make wood blocks float in water and stone blocks sink, so that this wouldn't actually need to be crafted, but instead could be built.
Quite the contrary. The entity system he wishes to implement would mean you don't actually place a boat, you have to build one. You gather blocks, then use some as-yet undefined system to place them in whatever shape you want, within a set of rules of reason, then the game will compile the blocks into a single, large entity to be processed, essentially, like a large boat, with its own, unique boundaries and physics. (Game-rendered speed, maneuverability, etcetera) This improves gameplay by adding a feature (I would imagine the original boat wouldn't be removed) that players can either take part in, for their own reward for playing for time and collecting resources, or choose not to, because they don't like the idea.
If adding a gameplay feature comes without subtracting any other, and you don't like the new one, there is no need to complain about it, because you simply don't need to participate in it. If you don't want scuba, don't take scuba. But, if it's possible, and I want it, and many others do, why should your disdain prevent us from our fun? Instead, our fun should be granted, and you should make the decision to use other fun parts of the game engine (such as diving with no scuba) that aren't affected. If I sound like a hypocrite, I don't mean to. I'm only saying adding things lets you choose what you use.
-SchizophrenicMC
Why do we have a Suggestions section if everyone shoots everyone else down? I suggest renaming it the Flame War section. Pun intended.
OOOOOOH! I thought it was just even bigger crafting screens! This was kind of what I was thinking of, I didn't realize that was what it was... Thanks for clearing that up. I do agree, that sounds awesome. When did he announce that? (I just heard of it in this thread...) And when does he plan to implement it? Though I can't imagine how he would be able to do that... But whatever. If he does manage to do it, then it'll be epic.
And about the scuba gear, my point was that I CAN'T just choose not to be a part of it. It would affect me one way or another... (Griefers have easy access to deep underwater bases!
[EDIT]
That explains why I said this: "Bringing this back to my last post, we could make wood blocks float in water and stone blocks sink, so that this wouldn't actually need to be crafted, but instead could be built." I was thinking that you would just craft these things, and I would prefer you build it out of the blocks he already had.
Good point. However an object such as the one I proposed would be like an upside down boat, meaning you would be able to pick it up and move it around at will. Were as something you would build if you wanted to move it around it would requiring you to de-assemble and re-assemble. Remember if your floating in the middle of the ocean resources are going to be scarce.
Fiddler (fiddler crab)
Environment: Near the shore
AI: Neutral (Special)
Drop: Carapace
Misc: A none hostile mob that if fed will defend you from enemies at night.
A common to uncommon mob, they scuttle the shore line looking for food. Usually in groups of three, it is most likely to roam the beach alone. It will be unwise to attack this creature, not only because of its one massive and destructive claw will tear you to shreds, but because its main enemies are your enemies.
If fed a certain food (seeds, ham, bread) it will group up with you at night, following you for the duration for the night, fighting off zombies, skeletons and, bravely, creepers before wandering off once day breaks. Depending on what you feed it , it will stay with you for a longer time.