**IF YOU LIKE REDSTONE CIRCUITS, YOU NEED TO KEEP READING.**
I posted a suggestion a while back involving bluestone dust. Now, it seems as though a few other people are using the word bluestone in their suggestions. I just want to be clear that this is based on the FIRST topic to involve bluestone in the manner that I suggested. I wanted to summarize the entire idea so far into a single, well-written (to the best of my ability) and clear post. This idea needs attention from Notch.
Here's a few points I'd like to make very clear right now.
- This is NOT one of the 5,000+ daily attempts at turning redstone circuits into real electricity. If you start shouting out electricity jargon and ridiculously complex ideas, I am going to yell at you.
- The purpose of this idea is to make minecraft circuits smaller and more manageable in ways that a redstone 'computer chip' CAN NOT accomplish.
- This idea is very easy to understand. I don't expect everyone to have a degree in electrical engineering. If you understand redstone circuits, you'll understand this.
- I'm no computer programmer, and I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure this would be easy as hell to implement.
I : The Essential Idea
Redstone is one of the most fun and stimulating aspects of Minecraft, in my opinion, but so often, you run into problems like the following: = redstone dust = bluestone dust = A fusion of redstone in bluestone, that will interact with both. aka 'purple dust' EDIT: This has caused a lot of confusion, so will now be used to represent a redstone wire crossing over a bluestone wire. THERE IS NO BLACKSTONE DUST. A black tile in my diagrams represents either diagram 6 or diagram 7 (scroll down to see these), and I hope that this update isn't too late to stop confusion.
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] (diagram 1)
You only want the top left to communicate to the top right, and you only want the bottom left to communicate to the bottom right. With the above configuration, you now have a jumbled mess that won't work that way, because the top half of the diagram (circuit 1, let's say) and the bottom half (circuit 2) are interacting. So what do you have to do? You have do change it to this:
To keep your wiring from interacting, you separate each circuit with empty tiles. The tiles in between these two circuits are now what I'll call 'dead space'. You can't put any dust on the dead tiles. It's just taking up space. That's why I propose bluestone dust. Bluestone dust is a simple and easy way to eliminate this problem. Bluestone has the exact same properties as redstone, but doesn't interact with redstone in any way. With bluestone dust, you can turn that cumbersome diagram above into this: [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] (diagram 3)
or even this:
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] (diagram 4)
Notice how tiny diagram 4 is compared to 2? Think about it. It's the exact same function as diagram 2, but uses nearly half as many tiles. Here's another example of bluestone's ability to tighten circuits.
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] (diagram 5)
Instead of having to make an unsightly bridge to carry the circuit over the top of the perpendicular circuit, you can make it work in 2 dimensions. Bluestone dust and redstone dust would be laid next to and across each other without screwing up circuits.
II : Concerns / Potential Questions addressed!
There's enough ore underground already, adding a new block that's essentially just like redstone is a waste of space.
That's why there doesn't necessarily have to be a new ore added just to add bluestone dust. In fact, I'd rather there not be a new ore updated, because then we'd all need to start new maps. My idea for this would be to have some sort of device (similar to a crafting bench or a furnace) that works to turn redstone dust into bluestone dust and vice versa. Would it be instant, like the crafting bench? Would it take fuel and time like a furnace? Any of them sound good to me.
Randomman159 contributed this idea: all redstone blocks are turned into red/bluestone ore that drops some redstone dust and some bluestone dust when destroyed. The texture would be changed to red and blue spots, instead of just red spots.
Let's say I have 5 redstone dust and 5 bluestone dust, but I need to make a circuit that's ten dust long. What could solve this?
I have two solutions for this. One is the pretty much described in the first question; you'd just turn redstone dust into bluestone dust and you'd have ten of the same kind. My second solution would be to have a redstone and bluestone fusion kind of thing that you'd create. It would probably be purple or something, and would be hard-ish to make (like requiring coal or something to fuse the red dust and blue dust). This would be the only way to connect a redstone and bluestone circuit.
All of this red and blue lying on the floor, won't it be hard to recognize your circuits when it's all on the ground?
Not at all! In diagrams 4 and 5, the purple color is only meant to represent red dust and blue dust on the same tile. It would hopefully look something like this: diagram 6 is a representation of a single tile.
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] []
[] [] [] (diagram 6)
or,
also, a representation of a single tile.
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] (diagram 7)
The redstone dust and bluestone dust, while on the same tile, are next to each other. All of the tile textures would show clearly where redstone dust and bluestone dust are.
This is a great idea! You know what else they should add? Yellowstone dust! And greenstone dust!
No. At a certain point (as in, 2 different kinds of dust) it just gets stupid and annoying to look at. Your circuits will look like puke, and just try to imagine what diagram 6 would look like with 5 parallel colors instead of just 2. Two kinds of dust are enough.
What about redstone and bluestone torches?
As you probably figured, bluestone torches would work in the same way as bluestone dust; exactly the same functionality as redstone, but not interacting. Redstone torches could be converted to bluestone torches, or they could be permenant. That detail isn't very important.
Doesn't the redstone 'computer chip' idea solve this problem?
Yes and no. The computer chip idea will help with making circuits smaller, but you would still have a lot of dead space.
III : Closing
Thanks for reading all the way through, or at least scrolling all the way to the bottom! If you support this thread at all, PLEASE post in it, even if it's just the word "support". The more replies this topic gets, the more noticed it will get. If you don't support, please reply with a reason to not support it.
Any questions that a lot of people are asking, I'll put in section II with my best solution.
I'm going to turn this post into a supporters list, I think. I'm going to count any positive feedback as support, but if you want me to take your name off the list, just let me know.
Edit: I was going to have these numbered, but that takes too long, so here they all are!
Except for the conversion thing. Surely the is a better way?
Maybe (this wouldn't require you to start again)
Redstone ore, is changed to not just red, but red and blue dots (that sparkle :biggrin.gif:)
Then you destroy it, and get some redstone and bluestone.
Basically it would change what redstone ore does, and what it looks like, but wouldn't require you to restart your world.
And if the above idea is used, i think bluestone should come less than redstone (out of a blueredstone ore comes 3 redstone dust, and one bluestone)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks, voicelessbard for the great avatar and sig! (search him in the MC forums)
Except for the conversion thing. Surely the is a better way?
Maybe (this wouldn't require you to start again)
Redstone ore, is changed to not just red, but red and blue dots (that sparkle :biggrin.gif:)
Then you destroy it, and get some redstone and bluestone.
Basically it would change what redstone ore does, and what it looks like, but wouldn't require you to restart your world.
And if the above idea is used, i think bluestone should come less than redstone (out of a blueredstone ore comes 3 redstone dust, and one bluestone)
I like this idea a lot, and I'll put it in section II under that question.
Having both redstone and bluestone dust come from modified redstone ore blocks seems like the best idea.
Works fine for me.
One thing to add might be that the proposed redstone circuit-chests could work with this system as well, taking input from either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Choose your words wisely.
Defend your words flexibly.
Change your words fittingly.
Let prejudice, popular opinion, and preconception be free from your judgments.
I think its a little arrogant to post that your idea *needs* notch's attention, but its a damned good idea. I don't even use redstone and I can see the uses. Good work :smile.gif: Much more understandable than the last post.
Yeah, I see what you mean, but I'm really, really, really wanting this to come to reality.
I like the idea.
However, I think it would be a better idea to use gold/silver/copper wires instead of bluestone dust (If said silver/copper is implemented, which I hope it is). Main reason as I see it being that wires of said metal make sense from a realistic standpoint, as all three of them are very good electrical conductors and are used in real-life circuitry.
They could be crafted fairly intuitively similar to how sticks are crafted from two plank blocks.
This could also give a practical use for gold, and add yet one more reason to the list of reasons to implement copper as a metal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Gib zu mir etwas fußbodenbelag unter diesen fetten, fließenden Sofa.
~ I've thought about the phrase 'Money is the root of all evil' and I have to disagree. Evil isn't dependant on an object. I say that want is the root of all evil.
I like the idea.
However, I think it would be a better idea to use gold/silver/copper wires instead of bluestone dust (If said silver/copper is implemented, which I hope it is). Main reason as I see it being that wires of said metal make sense from a realistic standpoint, as all three of them are very good electrical conductors and are used in real-life circuitry.
They could be crafted fairly intuitively similar to how sticks are crafted from two plank blocks.
This could also give a practical use for gold, and add yet one more reason to the list of reasons to implement copper as a metal.
I don't like to flame.. but here I go. Did you read the bold at the top of my first post? You didn't. Because it said that this is NOT an attempt at turning redstone circuitry into real electricity. We are NOT MAKING MINECRAFT REAL LIFE, so PLEASE STOP TRYING. Here's a test for you. Go in minecraft and find a tree. punch the bottom of the tree out. Does the rest of the tree float, or does it fall to the ground? It floats. Because this isn't real life. This is minecraft. They will NEVER put the complexity of real electricity into minecraft because it's ****ing stupid to try to do that. Get out of my topic, please.
At first, I thought "this is a neat idea"
But then, as I saw that junctions could become more complex, said to myself "holy crap, we can design stuff that takes up less space"
Then I thought to the past before redstone's update, about how circuits could be compact but annoying to work with, and grumbled "This is going to hurt my head".
Now, here's a technical issue to consider: If we have this purplestone thing to act on red and blue channels independently, it won't simply be on/off. It'll have 4 states: R0B0, R1B0, R0B1, and R1B1. I mean, it compresses circuits by a lot, but it'll have both pros and noobs at redstone get really frustrated since it's a lot less intuitive that simple on-off.
Another issue is transfering data between redstone and bluestone. If they don't interact, how do you connect them?
A solution to both is to make purplestone the connector between redstone and bluestone.
If the complexness of purplestone is to be preserved, an alternative is to make purplestone torches interact with both red and blue.
Issue 2: There are other blocks that interact with redstone: buttons, pressure plates, switches, doors, and TNT. I guess it would make sense for them to react to bluestone as well, but then again, maybe not, since that might defeat some of the purpose of bluestone's channel splitting properties.
Idea: Perhaps, instead of purple, you can craft redstone and bluestone to yield (bright)greenstone (with properties of above), so that we can have extremely low resolution RGB monitors 8D
Issue 3: I asked Notch if he could make redstone blocks craftable so we can carry current in any direction without annoying spiral towers, but he said that he didn't want too much of an emphasis on redstone. I think he might say the same for this, if we gave him this suggestion.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube channel.
Contains Pachebel's Canon made with noteblocks, a working Rubik's cube made with pistons, and the ultimate TNT cannon.
This seems like a cool idea. Bluestone dust would just be a second 'wire' to use if I understand it right, letting you overlap existing circuits without cross-circuiting things.
You could 'cook' redstone dust to make bluestone, and vice-versa, burning wood or coal to change it's nature back and forth. Given the volume of dust involved in large circuits, I personally think it should cook very fast and only need a little fuel to change a whole stack. That would be up to the dev tho. :biggrin.gif:
I posted a suggestion a while back involving bluestone dust. Now, it seems as though a few other people are using the word bluestone in their suggestions. I just want to be clear that this is based on the FIRST topic to involve bluestone in the manner that I suggested. I wanted to summarize the entire idea so far into a single, well-written (to the best of my ability) and clear post. This idea needs attention from Notch.
Here's a few points I'd like to make very clear right now.
- This is NOT one of the 5,000+ daily attempts at turning redstone circuits into real electricity. If you start shouting out electricity jargon and ridiculously complex ideas, I am going to yell at you.
- The purpose of this idea is to make minecraft circuits smaller and more manageable in ways that a redstone 'computer chip' CAN NOT accomplish.
- This idea is very easy to understand. I don't expect everyone to have a degree in electrical engineering. If you understand redstone circuits, you'll understand this.
- I'm no computer programmer, and I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure this would be easy as hell to implement.
I : The Essential Idea
Redstone is one of the most fun and stimulating aspects of Minecraft, in my opinion, but so often, you run into problems like the following:
EDIT: This has caused a lot of confusion, so
You only want the top left to communicate to the top right, and you only want the bottom left to communicate to the bottom right. With the above configuration, you now have a jumbled mess that won't work that way, because the top half of the diagram (circuit 1, let's say) and the bottom half (circuit 2) are interacting. So what do you have to do? You have do change it to this:
[] [] [] [] [] []
To keep your wiring from interacting, you separate each circuit with empty tiles. The tiles in between these two circuits are now what I'll call 'dead space'. You can't put any dust on the dead tiles. It's just taking up space. That's why I propose bluestone dust. Bluestone dust is a simple and easy way to eliminate this problem. Bluestone has the exact same properties as redstone, but doesn't interact with redstone in any way. With bluestone dust, you can turn that cumbersome diagram above into this:
or even this:
Notice how tiny diagram 4 is compared to 2? Think about it. It's the exact same function as diagram 2, but uses nearly half as many tiles. Here's another example of bluestone's ability to tighten circuits.
[] []
[] []
[] []
[] []
Instead of having to make an unsightly bridge to carry the circuit over the top of the perpendicular circuit, you can make it work in 2 dimensions. Bluestone dust and redstone dust would be laid next to and across each other without screwing up circuits.
II : Concerns / Potential Questions addressed!
There's enough ore underground already, adding a new block that's essentially just like redstone is a waste of space.
That's why there doesn't necessarily have to be a new ore added just to add bluestone dust. In fact, I'd rather there not be a new ore updated, because then we'd all need to start new maps. My idea for this would be to have some sort of device (similar to a crafting bench or a furnace) that works to turn redstone dust into bluestone dust and vice versa. Would it be instant, like the crafting bench? Would it take fuel and time like a furnace? Any of them sound good to me.
Randomman159 contributed this idea: all redstone blocks are turned into red/bluestone ore that drops some redstone dust and some bluestone dust when destroyed. The texture would be changed to red and blue spots, instead of just red spots.
Let's say I have 5 redstone dust and 5 bluestone dust, but I need to make a circuit that's ten dust long. What could solve this?
I have two solutions for this. One is the pretty much described in the first question; you'd just turn redstone dust into bluestone dust and you'd have ten of the same kind. My second solution would be to have a redstone and bluestone fusion kind of thing that you'd create. It would probably be purple or something, and would be hard-ish to make (like requiring coal or something to fuse the red dust and blue dust). This would be the only way to connect a redstone and bluestone circuit.
All of this red and blue lying on the floor, won't it be hard to recognize your circuits when it's all on the ground?
Not at all! In diagrams 4 and 5, the purple color is only meant to represent red dust and blue dust on the same tile. It would hopefully look something like this:
diagram 6 is a representation of a single tile.
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
or,
also, a representation of a single tile.
[] []
[] []
[] []
[] []
The redstone dust and bluestone dust, while on the same tile, are next to each other. All of the tile textures would show clearly where redstone dust and bluestone dust are.
This is a great idea! You know what else they should add? Yellowstone dust! And greenstone dust!
No. At a certain point (as in, 2 different kinds of dust) it just gets stupid and annoying to look at. Your circuits will look like puke, and just try to imagine what diagram 6 would look like with 5 parallel colors instead of just 2. Two kinds of dust are enough.
What about redstone and bluestone torches?
As you probably figured, bluestone torches would work in the same way as bluestone dust; exactly the same functionality as redstone, but not interacting. Redstone torches could be converted to bluestone torches, or they could be permenant. That detail isn't very important.
Doesn't the redstone 'computer chip' idea solve this problem?
Yes and no. The computer chip idea will help with making circuits smaller, but you would still have a lot of dead space.
III : Closing
Thanks for reading all the way through, or at least scrolling all the way to the bottom! If you support this thread at all, PLEASE post in it, even if it's just the word "support". The more replies this topic gets, the more noticed it will get. If you don't support, please reply with a reason to not support it.
Any questions that a lot of people are asking, I'll put in section II with my best solution.
-Starfrish
Let's make it a reality.
I'm going to turn this post into a supporters list, I think. I'm going to count any positive feedback as support, but if you want me to take your name off the list, just let me know.
Edit: I was going to have these numbered, but that takes too long, so here they all are!
00Lucan00
4rz0
700TnegaTerces
_L1pE_BR
abendego
Acidproof
alexut
Allot
andrewzunigar
Atticus Scivan
Aumir
Azraile
babbies123
BigBlueGER
Blablah99
blightning?
BrianSki
BurlyNate
bzBetty
captainarcain
ccspycrab
ChaosJames
chapnzaba
CharChar525?
Chemist98
Chubysnow
CobraA1
Conundrumer
coocoup
crazyeye777
CrazyGamer6
DarkDX
darkwolfhull2142
Dazureus
Digital.Lion
DonkeyRhubarb
Dratch
Dreadketchup
Drsaz
Duane
Dwood15?
Ehnonimus
ekulio
Elcamo
Elmach?
Evangeder
EvanWeeks
Evrim
ExSeaD
Fenixin
fg123
Filipus
Firewolf34
Forecaster
furiaz?
Gameguy602
ganondorfchampin
Gerrett3322?
Gear3215
GeekRichieUK
Gerbilios
godlaser
GooeyGungan
Gouitsu
halfwing
HatlessCreature
Hawke444 “Professor Hawke”
haydugjr
hazzytje
hell93
hero122
I_Make_Things
IBWIT?
Ironhide
Islacrusez
Jaepheth?
Jamsponge
Jhelfrich
Jim2y
junweizhu
kalner1234
Kamji
katana098
ketpia
keyofdoor
Kino
klazen108
Kohuded
Koponen
Lord_of_Potatoes
LucyBaconLover
MarchNer0
marsgreekgod
Matt-J-222
Moon_werewolf
Moridin
mossman1223
Mr Torb
NerdiousMaximous
nuttyboffin “Tom Williamson”
Oanu
Palidin
Pbcrazy
piber20
Postronicman
psycoman27
quiles
Qwill
Raizor-Blaid “Irrelevant New User”
Randomman159
Raphfrk
Ravir
Razre
rcoobc
Redoktober
RedX
Rhyme
Ryth
SageThe13th
Sakura
Seradest
Shykary
Sir Sneaky
Siramok
slimjeezy
Slyke
SondreSnurr
Soul_Cake_Duck
spifkie
Spybrush
StarBright
stefmor90
StrokesOfDoom
Strykeudead
superclove?
SydneyFloyd
TerranceXCiel
thebagleboy
theicychameleon
thekillman
TheLegacy
TheMagicalCake
tproc?
treefrog54
Valkyrie1337
VengeurK
vxi
WarlockD
weq150
Wolfups
YourMajesty
zeekkay
Let's make it a reality.
Let's make it a reality.
Except for the conversion thing. Surely the is a better way?
Maybe (this wouldn't require you to start again)
Redstone ore, is changed to not just red, but red and blue dots (that sparkle :biggrin.gif:)
Then you destroy it, and get some redstone and bluestone.
Basically it would change what redstone ore does, and what it looks like, but wouldn't require you to restart your world.
And if the above idea is used, i think bluestone should come less than redstone (out of a blueredstone ore comes 3 redstone dust, and one bluestone)
Thanks, voicelessbard for the great avatar and sig! (search him in the MC forums)
I like this idea a lot, and I'll put it in section II under that question.
Let's make it a reality.
Your support makes you relevant to me :biggrin.gif:
Let's make it a reality.
Works fine for me.
One thing to add might be that the proposed redstone circuit-chests could work with this system as well, taking input from either.
Defend your words flexibly.
Change your words fittingly.
Let prejudice, popular opinion, and preconception be free from your judgments.
Yeah, I see what you mean, but I'm really, really, really wanting this to come to reality.
Let's make it a reality.
However, I think it would be a better idea to use gold/silver/copper wires instead of bluestone dust (If said silver/copper is implemented, which I hope it is). Main reason as I see it being that wires of said metal make sense from a realistic standpoint, as all three of them are very good electrical conductors and are used in real-life circuitry.
They could be crafted fairly intuitively similar to how sticks are crafted from two plank blocks.
This could also give a practical use for gold, and add yet one more reason to the list of reasons to implement copper as a metal.
I don't like to flame.. but here I go. Did you read the bold at the top of my first post? You didn't. Because it said that this is NOT an attempt at turning redstone circuitry into real electricity. We are NOT MAKING MINECRAFT REAL LIFE, so PLEASE STOP TRYING. Here's a test for you. Go in minecraft and find a tree. punch the bottom of the tree out. Does the rest of the tree float, or does it fall to the ground? It floats. Because this isn't real life. This is minecraft. They will NEVER put the complexity of real electricity into minecraft because it's ****ing stupid to try to do that. Get out of my topic, please.
Let's make it a reality.
But then, as I saw that junctions could become more complex, said to myself "holy crap, we can design stuff that takes up less space"
Then I thought to the past before redstone's update, about how circuits could be compact but annoying to work with, and grumbled "This is going to hurt my head".
Now, here's a technical issue to consider: If we have this purplestone thing to act on red and blue channels independently, it won't simply be on/off. It'll have 4 states: R0B0, R1B0, R0B1, and R1B1. I mean, it compresses circuits by a lot, but it'll have both pros and noobs at redstone get really frustrated since it's a lot less intuitive that simple on-off.
Another issue is transfering data between redstone and bluestone. If they don't interact, how do you connect them?
A solution to both is to make purplestone the connector between redstone and bluestone.
If the complexness of purplestone is to be preserved, an alternative is to make purplestone torches interact with both red and blue.
Issue 2: There are other blocks that interact with redstone: buttons, pressure plates, switches, doors, and TNT. I guess it would make sense for them to react to bluestone as well, but then again, maybe not, since that might defeat some of the purpose of bluestone's channel splitting properties.
Idea: Perhaps, instead of purple, you can craft redstone and bluestone to yield (bright)greenstone (with properties of above), so that we can have extremely low resolution RGB monitors 8D
Issue 3: I asked Notch if he could make redstone blocks craftable so we can carry current in any direction without annoying spiral towers, but he said that he didn't want too much of an emphasis on redstone. I think he might say the same for this, if we gave him this suggestion.
Contains Pachebel's Canon made with noteblocks, a working Rubik's cube made with pistons, and the ultimate TNT cannon.
You could 'cook' redstone dust to make bluestone, and vice-versa, burning wood or coal to change it's nature back and forth. Given the volume of dust involved in large circuits, I personally think it should cook very fast and only need a little fuel to change a whole stack. That would be up to the dev tho. :biggrin.gif: