My laptop has a scroll button. It also has number keys. (tick and tick)
Also I can't see anyone seriously playing on laptop... And if they have enough money to afford a laptop that can run minecraft well (at the insane markup laptops have), then they can afford a cheap $2 mouse with a scroll wheel.
I'm surprised, I didn't know you shared your laptop with everyone. It must get crowded when two people want to play.
Point being, you can't say "I have it therefore you SHOULD."
20% of the people I play with on the multiplayer server I frequent play on laptops and with just the touchpad. And that's just the ones I've physically seen playing. I can't count how many over the net do.
And we're getting off topic.
You can't rely on number pads or scroll wheels for things that are going to become "important".
While the scroll wheel is a "bonus" implementation the original way to swap, and I can guarantee you this, was via the number keys.
I play with a track-pad. On my macboook pro. I would want less combat effects linked to hotkeys other then the shift to use the shield. I say keep combat as simple as possible to keep it accessible and easy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
when I "spin the wheel", I end up a random number of slots removed from the one I had originally been using, which only has a 1 in 9 chance of being the slot that actually has my shield in it. To be able to select the item slot with my shield, I would need to very carefully move my scroll wheel just one click (or just x number, but I'm assuming I put my shield right next to my primary weapon) and hope that it doesn't go a little too far because I was being hasty while in the middle of combat.
Yes, You shouldn't be able to attack and block at the same time, but shifting between them should be seamless, not able to be broken by something as simple as moving your scroll wheel a little too far. (not even noting people who play on the laptop, even if most mice have scroll wheels, some mice don't even have scroll wheels that click as you turn them) As for number keys, not everyone is comfortable taking their fingers off of wasd in order to press them, so only 1-3 are even slightly convenient and thus could already be taken up by people who want to use them for pickaxe, torches and ladders/bucket/meat/block.
Even with Sword, shield and bow bound to 1, 2, and 3, it's still not convenient to use that in battle, as at least 1 direction is unavailable to move in while you are pressing them. When I'm in situation where I need to quickly switch between attack and defend, the last thing I want to do is stop moving. Sneak/Guard can be pressed/released with your pinky(provided you left it bound to shift or whatever key is most comfortable for your pinky to rest on) and doesn't cut into your motion at all.
If Sneak = Guard, then as soon as you let go of the sneak button, you are instantly ready to attack again. This also means that you can be mining and are attacked you can use your shield to guard yourself while you still have your pickaxe or a torch, or a block, or whatever, while you are still guarding. You can even guard while you cycle through your other items to use, allowing you a little leeway to implement some strategy (like being able to switch from sword, to bow, OR to MEAT or ANOTHER piece of meat) without needing to have rehearsed it 100 times so that you've made it into a personal manual macro. If your sword breaks, as long as you have another in your primary inventory, you can easily guard while you switch to it, or you can switch to your bow while you guard and then be ready to fire as soon as you stop guarding or vica versa.
And no, I don't want to dual wield items, I just want the Shield to be part of the Armor set, but so that it activates when you're sneaking/guarding.
when I "spin the wheel", I end up a random number of slots removed from the one I had originally been using, which only has a 1 in 9 chance of being the slot that actually has my shield in it. To be able to select the item slot with my shield, I would need to very carefully move my scroll wheel just one click (or just x number, but I'm assuming I put my shield right next to my primary weapon) and hope that it doesn't go a little too far because I was being hasty while in the middle of combat.
Surely not serious?
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Yes, You shouldn't be able to attack and block at the same time, but shifting between them should be seamless, not able to be broken by something as simple as moving your scroll wheel a little too far. (not even noting people who play on the laptop, even if most mice have scroll wheels, some mice don't even have scroll wheels that click as you turn them) As for number keys, not everyone is comfortable taking their fingers off of wasd in order to press them, so only 1-3 are even slightly convenient and thus could already be taken up by people who want to use them for pickaxe, torches and ladders/bucket/meat/block.
Even with Sword, shield and bow bound to 1, 2, and 3, it's still not convenient to use that in battle, as at least 1 direction is unavailable to move in while you are pressing them. When I'm in situation where I need to quickly switch between attack and defend, the last thing I want to do is stop moving. Sneak/Guard can be pressed/released with your pinky(provided you left it bound to shift or whatever key is most comfortable for your pinky to rest on) and doesn't cut into your motion at all.
Surely... not... serious...?
Quote from GreyAcumen »
If Sneak = Guard, then as soon as you let go of the sneak button, you are instantly ready to attack again. This also means that you can be mining and are attacked you can use your shield to guard yourself while you still have your pickaxe or a torch, or a block, or whatever, while you are still guarding. You can even guard while you cycle through your other items to use, allowing you a little leeway to implement some strategy (like being able to switch from sword, to bow, OR to MEAT or ANOTHER piece of meat) without needing to have rehearsed it 100 times so that you've made it into a personal manual macro. If your sword breaks, as long as you have another in your primary inventory, you can easily guard while you switch to it, or you can switch to your bow while you guard and then be ready to fire as soon as you stop guarding or vica versa.
And no, I don't want to dual wield items, I just want the Shield to be part of the Armor set, but so that it activates when you're sneaking/guarding.
Just on the whole laptop thing, I'm the only minecraft player I know IRL (out of about 20 or so people) who has a desktop, one of two of them use mice, the rest don't bother. Expecting people to use the Fn key to access basic bits of gameplay, especially things like combat, is a bit off.
I have to say I've come around to shields (I rather like them in real life) but do we really need that much more? Rolling dodges just sound awkward in minecraft.
I'd rather call it a rolling maneuver.
@Gorman, How the heck is he trolling, I agree with everything that he's saying.
You ignore the me saying repeatedly that everyone has number keys.
Quote from theicychameleon »
Just on the whole laptop thing, I'm the only minecraft player I know IRL (out of about 20 or so people) who has a desktop, one of two of them use mice, the rest don't bother. Expecting people to use the Fn key to access basic bits of gameplay, especially things like combat, is a bit off.
I have to say I've come around to shields (I rather like them in real life) but do we really need that much more? Rolling dodges just sound awkward in minecraft.
That about sums it up.
There ARE no number pad keys on some laptops/all netbooks.
So you're back to requiring laptop and netbook users to hold down the Fn key which is NOT in a static place unlike the Enter Key or Tab.
For some people they'd have to give up moving their Minecraftian to hold down Fn. Others might have to give up their mouse/tracpad.
The Number Pad as a requirement simply will not work because it places too many restrictions.
Not to troll at all but im not a fan, I like the Free-Moving combat system and that the options are limeted to you imagination IE: Drowining them, Luring them into a vally with artchers (Multiplayer), Etc... But i WOULD like it if the monsters had no idea you were sneaking up on them if you were behinf them, And the sheilds But the rest... Just not my taste, If this was implemented i would like it if it could be turned off.
It also happens in very western Video games and Comics.
I still don't see the connection to Weaboos.
Western Comics, Animation, and Videogames, are one thing Eastern as well. A double jump in Eastern stuff is usually horribly exaggerated up to the point where the choreography is overtly complicated and messy to which animators adapting or making new material make the most horribly funny "Quality" clips. In western stuff, things are much more conservative, clean, and precise but not as fun. Double jumping in western things is rarely seen, and with backflips being very, very conservative. Even in the newest Marvel, and DC animations we do not see people doing 20 back flips in one fight, except for Spectacualr Spider-Man but that's his shtick. Sure we see them dashing and jumping ridiculous heights but when ridiculous jumps and earth shattering blows are exchanged it's always between higher tier characters like Shazam and Superman, in regular Shonen Anime IT ALWAYS HAPPENS ALWAYS EVEN BETWEEN THE LOWEST TIER PEOPLE. The few exceptions are shows determined to be something fun that doesn't necessarily cater to 13 yr old boys or Shonen enthusiasts.
Also give me a list of western videogames that have double jump and back flips just as exaggerated like eastern ones.
Now to stay on topic
A double jump in Minecraft would make sense but it would be overpowered because currently mobs are not the brightest things in the world.
I don't think the double jump would make as much sense as a just being able to extend the length/height of your jump by holding the jump button down. I actually wouldn't mind minecraft implementing bigger jump,(max 2 blocks jump height) it's just that I don't see how it would benefit COMBAT, and would requiring reworking the enemy AI to be able to preform the bigger jumps as well, or else players could EASILY get away from enemies to the point that there wouldn't be any real challenge at all.
I don't think the double jump would make as much sense as a just being able to extend the length/height of your jump by holding the jump button down. I actually wouldn't mind minecraft implementing bigger jump,(max 2 blocks jump height) it's just that I don't see how it would benefit COMBAT, and would requiring reworking the enemy AI to be able to preform the bigger jumps as well, or else players could EASILY get away from enemies to the point that there wouldn't be any real challenge at all.
That's exactly what I said just wordier
Quote from Tms »
Personally I find the Combat is fine the way it is. Thought you have some valid points and good ideas there. I think most of them should not be done.
I think it should be done because Notch is implementing things as big and complicated as the Ghast. Judging from the screen caps, and things Notch has said they range from 4^3 to 6^3 meters, that bro is huge, not only that but those things throw fireballs that light everything on fire and explodes it. Are you telling me that melee combat as it stands without even a simple shield, will let you survive more than 3 of those? Surely you gest. Combat improvement is needed to keep this game fresh, and to allow more variety in difficulty. As I said before we just have to think critically of what would fit in given the AI's intelligence and primitive behavior.
Double Jump - Midair jump
Extended Jump - Hold jump for longer/higher jump(2 blocks high max)
Doubletap Dodge/Roll - Short & fast movement when direction key are doubletapped.
Sprint - Doubletap direction key & hold = run (oxygen meter decreases while running)
Equipped Shield - Equipped as Armor. Hold "Sneak" to use. (Don't vote for Item Shield)
Item Shield - Used from Inventory. (Don't vote for Equipped Shield)
Clambering - Hold Jump while touching ledge to climb up onto that ledge.
DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT COMBAT (Don't vote for any other options)
Make sure that people have a limit of 7 votes; enough to vote for each option separate option once.
Double Jump - Midair jump
Extended Jump - Hold jump for longer/higher jump(2 blocks high max)
Doubletap Dodge/Roll - Short & fast movement when direction key are doubletapped.
Sprint - Doubletap direction key & hold = run (oxygen meter decreases while running)
Equipped Shield - Equipped as Armor. Hold "Sneak" to use.
Item Shield - Used from Inventory.
Clambering - Hold Jump while touching ledge to climb up onto that ledge.
DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT COMBAT.
Yes we need a poll asking all of this.
But remember a VERY VERY VERY small part of the community speaks here. We're just a small and very vocal minority
yeah, but polls are still nice to see. Oh, and I made an addendum, 7 votes per person so people can pick any options they like.
Meh I don't like them too much, more often than not people think popular opinion is supreme and always right and then try to close all sorts of discussion just because of a poll that is not representative of the populace at all.
Also I can't see anyone seriously playing on laptop... And if they have enough money to afford a laptop that can run minecraft well (at the insane markup laptops have), then they can afford a cheap $2 mouse with a scroll wheel.
Point being, you can't say "I have it therefore you SHOULD."
20% of the people I play with on the multiplayer server I frequent play on laptops and with just the touchpad. And that's just the ones I've physically seen playing. I can't count how many over the net do.
And we're getting off topic.
You can't rely on number pads or scroll wheels for things that are going to become "important".
While the scroll wheel is a "bonus" implementation the original way to swap, and I can guarantee you this, was via the number keys.
Yes, You shouldn't be able to attack and block at the same time, but shifting between them should be seamless, not able to be broken by something as simple as moving your scroll wheel a little too far. (not even noting people who play on the laptop, even if most mice have scroll wheels, some mice don't even have scroll wheels that click as you turn them) As for number keys, not everyone is comfortable taking their fingers off of wasd in order to press them, so only 1-3 are even slightly convenient and thus could already be taken up by people who want to use them for pickaxe, torches and ladders/bucket/meat/block.
Even with Sword, shield and bow bound to 1, 2, and 3, it's still not convenient to use that in battle, as at least 1 direction is unavailable to move in while you are pressing them. When I'm in situation where I need to quickly switch between attack and defend, the last thing I want to do is stop moving. Sneak/Guard can be pressed/released with your pinky(provided you left it bound to shift or whatever key is most comfortable for your pinky to rest on) and doesn't cut into your motion at all.
If Sneak = Guard, then as soon as you let go of the sneak button, you are instantly ready to attack again. This also means that you can be mining and are attacked you can use your shield to guard yourself while you still have your pickaxe or a torch, or a block, or whatever, while you are still guarding. You can even guard while you cycle through your other items to use, allowing you a little leeway to implement some strategy (like being able to switch from sword, to bow, OR to MEAT or ANOTHER piece of meat) without needing to have rehearsed it 100 times so that you've made it into a personal manual macro. If your sword breaks, as long as you have another in your primary inventory, you can easily guard while you switch to it, or you can switch to your bow while you guard and then be ready to fire as soon as you stop guarding or vica versa.
And no, I don't want to dual wield items, I just want the Shield to be part of the Armor set, but so that it activates when you're sneaking/guarding.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Surely not serious?
Surely... not... serious...?
SURELY...... NOT..... SERIOUS?
obvious troll is obvious.
I'd rather call it a rolling maneuver.
@Gorman, How the heck is he trolling, I agree with everything that he's saying.
Good suggestions:
Titans
Combat
Domestication
That about sums it up.
There ARE no number pad keys on some laptops/all netbooks.
So you're back to requiring laptop and netbook users to hold down the Fn key which is NOT in a static place unlike the Enter Key or Tab.
For some people they'd have to give up moving their Minecraftian to hold down Fn. Others might have to give up their mouse/tracpad.
The Number Pad as a requirement simply will not work because it places too many restrictions.
I have no idea where you made a connection between people who adore Japan to the point of nerdiness and double jumping/back flips.
because most people cannot backfilp and no one can double jump. It something that mainly happens in many over the top animes.
I still don't see the connection to Weaboos.
Western Comics, Animation, and Videogames, are one thing Eastern as well. A double jump in Eastern stuff is usually horribly exaggerated up to the point where the choreography is overtly complicated and messy to which animators adapting or making new material make the most horribly funny "Quality" clips. In western stuff, things are much more conservative, clean, and precise but not as fun. Double jumping in western things is rarely seen, and with backflips being very, very conservative. Even in the newest Marvel, and DC animations we do not see people doing 20 back flips in one fight, except for Spectacualr Spider-Man but that's his shtick. Sure we see them dashing and jumping ridiculous heights but when ridiculous jumps and earth shattering blows are exchanged it's always between higher tier characters like Shazam and Superman, in regular Shonen Anime IT ALWAYS HAPPENS ALWAYS EVEN BETWEEN THE LOWEST TIER PEOPLE. The few exceptions are shows determined to be something fun that doesn't necessarily cater to 13 yr old boys or Shonen enthusiasts.
Also give me a list of western videogames that have double jump and back flips just as exaggerated like eastern ones.
Now to stay on topic
A double jump in Minecraft would make sense but it would be overpowered because currently mobs are not the brightest things in the world.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
That's exactly what I said just wordier
I think it should be done because Notch is implementing things as big and complicated as the Ghast. Judging from the screen caps, and things Notch has said they range from 4^3 to 6^3 meters, that bro is huge, not only that but those things throw fireballs that light everything on fire and explodes it. Are you telling me that melee combat as it stands without even a simple shield, will let you survive more than 3 of those? Surely you gest. Combat improvement is needed to keep this game fresh, and to allow more variety in difficulty. As I said before we just have to think critically of what would fit in given the AI's intelligence and primitive behavior.
Double Jump - Midair jump
Extended Jump - Hold jump for longer/higher jump(2 blocks high max)
Doubletap Dodge/Roll - Short & fast movement when direction key are doubletapped.
Sprint - Doubletap direction key & hold = run (oxygen meter decreases while running)
Equipped Shield - Equipped as Armor. Hold "Sneak" to use. (Don't vote for Item Shield)
Item Shield - Used from Inventory. (Don't vote for Equipped Shield)
Clambering - Hold Jump while touching ledge to climb up onto that ledge.
DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT COMBAT (Don't vote for any other options)
Make sure that people have a limit of 7 votes; enough to vote for each option separate option once.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Yes we need a poll asking all of this.
But remember a VERY VERY VERY small part of the community speaks here. We're just a small and very vocal minority
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Meh I don't like them too much, more often than not people think popular opinion is supreme and always right and then try to close all sorts of discussion just because of a poll that is not representative of the populace at all.