It's cool bro, just keep in mind people like to use the loudest and the roudiest as an example as to why an idea sucks instead of the actual problems of an idea. It's called adhominem, and you're making it easy for them to pull off if you keep on acting out or literally using it yourself.
Remember oppose the idea with facts, not the individual.
I personally just want the rolling maneuver the most.
After that, maybe some more advance combat mechanics. Not like spells or Mana or anything, just something more in depth.
Combat depth is needed if Notch wants to keep adding more powerful monsters, not to mention how fun it could be.
Yea, The main argument is that some people want the game to be about survival. If you see a monster, then run. My suggestions would hopefully make this style of play more fun and give the option to play a more combat oriented game for people that don't want to frantically flee from everything (like me). Right now, more monsters wouldn't benefit either style of gameplay unless the mechanics were fixed.
[The point of the climbing glove isn't really to get over 2 block obstacles. It is more for making the climb mechanic on ladders more usable which gets over 2 blocks already.
The boots would be a good idea though for the movement enhancements. If you want more maneuverability, you have to sacrifice a (little) bit of armour.
And let me rephrase my idea on stealth (because that is a legitimate use you gave). It is useless in combat situations and it isn't used for the mechanic that it's name implies. Pressing shift without a shield would still make you walk slow so you could place blocks on the sides of structures.
After playing a bit on hard mode, I have changed my stance on what needs to be done for fleeing. You can expect to see an OP edit within the next few hours.
Combat depth is needed if Notch wants to keep adding more powerful monsters, not to mention how fun it could be.
Yea, The main argument is that some people want the game to be about survival. If you see a monster, then run. My suggestions would hopefully make this style of play more fun and give the option to play a more combat oriented game for people that don't want to frantically flee from everything (like me). Right now, more monsters wouldn't benefit either style of gameplay unless the mechanics were fixed.
Its a different strokes situation, but both parties can be attended to without harming either. Those who perfer to run will likely never need to USE the combat system. If anything the ability to dodge would give them better odds against a group of skeletons.
As for what Minecraft *is*: Minecraft is a game where you look for resources in dark caves full of monsters who wish to bite your face off. Key word is "Blood thirsty monsters". The current combat system is two things, one: horribly useless with anything less than a diamond sword. And two: absolutely needed if you want to get anything done.
If you just want to mine, play Peaceful. And for those saying veto the combat as a whole: Hell no, I am not playing Amnesia: 16 Bit Edition.
Combat depth is needed if Notch wants to keep adding more powerful monsters, not to mention how fun it could be.
The thing is, i actually agree with this statement, I just don't think that you need climbing doublejumps, sprinting and the like to accomplish that.
I think that, pound for pound, just implementing shields and a small dodge move will make a HUGE difference in the existing combat depth without affecting how the rest of the game is played at all. Heck, it wouldn't even require any alterations to the existing enemy AI, but a more complex AI could then be implemented to make the shield and dodge moves more important to surviving an encounter with those enemies.
that's the problem that i have with the other suggestions is that while they may add a little combat depth, it's not even close to how much the shields and dodge would give, but what they would more heavily affect is how the rest of the game is played.(and while you might treat that as a good thing, there are a lot of other people who don't want that at all) To me that just doesn't seem economical to push for something that doesn't get you as much of what you want and also upsets everyone else more, when you could be pushing for something that would get you more of what you want and wouldn't upset others nearly as much.
Agreed, there has to be a balance and adding dodging moves, or climbing moves allow both people who like combat and those who don't to handle threats in much more various ways than one.
@Grey
Tel me something do you at least like the climbing suggestions? Or you still think that clambering, ledge grabbing and climbing would platform this too much?
Combat depth is needed if Notch wants to keep adding more powerful monsters, not to mention how fun it could be.
The thing is, i actually agree with this statement, I just don't think that you need climbing doublejumps, sprinting and the like to accomplish that.
I think that, pound for pound, just implementing shields and a small dodge move will make a HUGE difference in the existing combat depth without affecting how the rest of the game is played at all. Heck, it wouldn't even require any alterations to the existing enemy AI, but a more complex AI could then be implemented to make the shield and dodge moves more important to surviving an encounter with those enemies.
that's the problem that i have with the other suggestions is that while they may add a little combat depth, it's not even close to how much the shields and dodge would give, but what they would more heavily affect is how the rest of the game is played.(and while you might treat that as a good thing, there are a lot of other people who don't want that at all) To me that just doesn't seem economical to push for something that doesn't get you as much of what you want and also upsets everyone else more, when you could be pushing for something that would get you more of what you want and wouldn't upset others nearly as much.
A more fluid movement system is needed at some point.
Combat isn't broken, it's just basic. As it isn't what the game is about.
When I started I found exploring and being out at night terrifying, but now I am quite happy to wander around at night. I play on hard, and I find taking on groups of 5-6 enemies with nothing but a stone or steel sword an easy task, unless they are skeletons, who are the only mob I use my arrows against.
I fail to see this, I find the fighting in the game too easy, thats why I want more challenging mobs. Right now, I never feel unsafe running through completely dark mines, and I have never even worn any armour, except for leather, and I made steel pants once, in the first world I ever made.
To put it bluntly, I think this game is far too easy on hard mode, if anything I want the game to be much, much harder.
Yeah, again, "It isn't the main focus of the game", is a sorry excuse to leave an active element of the whole survival deal in disarray. If anyone hasn't noticed yet, combat situations are frequent and inevitable. You are bound to find yourself face to face with a mob at some point, and even if you don't go out at night, you will eventually find some in some of the infinite natural caves within the game.
Combat should be difficult, but it should also be fun. Difficult =/= Fun, not on its own anyway, because then we could just go and have fun doing difficult math equations and difficult chores out in our backyards. If Notch wanted to make it difficult he would make the mobs move at twice the speed they do now. Would it be fun to get gangraped in a random 6-man spawn? No, because it doesn't even give you the time to react, and the spawn system doesn't allow you to plan out a course so you don't get gangraped or ambushed.
Quote from Odysseus »
Creepers - Hit, backpedal, hit
Skeletons - Hide behind a wall and hit them as they come around the corner
Zombies- Hit, backpedal, hit
Spider- Hit, backpedal, hit
Slimes- Hit, backpedal, hit
This is in the plainest possible description of what the combat system breaks down to. How does anyone think repeating this backpedaling process for every mob except skeletons is fun?
Yeah, so adding a shitload of techniques is going to make the combat oh so much fun?
As if the game isn't ****ing easy enough as it is. Also maybe you should try and fight **** while moving around, believe it or not if your not completely **** at playing games it's possible to fight the way YOU want to without taking damage.
I'm not saying that combat shouldn't be more fun but the suggested techniques are just stupid. How are they going to benefit the combat system in any way? By making it easier? Because you can jump side to side, charge forward, do a front flip over the zombie, start breakdancing, then hit it once. Wow, that will make combat so much more fun, for maybe, 5 minutes of combat before you realize it's faster and easier just to deal with enemies the current way.
Adding more techniques isn't going to make the combat more fun! "Hit, backpedal, hit" will still be an extremely valid option if you don't want to get hurt. Unless new mobs are added, which OP said shouldn't be added because combat is broken. Wait? What? That's ****ing contradicting isn't it?
The ONLY technique that could be useful in the future is a side to side dodge move, if things like charging mobs are added, etc. However, what are you even going to be dodging in the current system? Arrows? Well I can't imagine that you will be able to dodge them at point blank even with a technique like this, and you can already dodge them from medium range by just moving.
This is the sort of suggestion I hate more then anything, "Hey guys, wouldn't be cool if you could do dodges, rolls, dashes, slides, etc, I mean it would make the game much more fun right". Seriously, think about how much difference your idea would make to the game if implemented right now. It would implement some combat moves that would be, well practically useless.
Also I said that it isn't the main point of the game because it isn't. This is not a combat based game. Are you going to argue about that? That's like saying that it's a swimming based game, because at some point you will probably be swimming the game too.
@Kaz21
Ever heard of having fun? Also as I said and a few others too this will open the room for much more harder enemies and much more enemy variety. It's not just for fun, it's to make Minecraft more accessible to people and new enemy types.
That is such an ambiguous statement a that I can't even venture to guess at what you mean by it, that isn't already covered by being able to dodge and block.
Quote from spartacuscat »
@Grey
Tel me something do you at least like the climbing suggestions? Or you still think that clambering, ledge grabbing and climbing would platform this too much?
No matter how many times and how many people say that it can improve combat, there will always be # issues that I have with it:
1) You can ALREADY get up just as high, just about as fast as you could realistically "clamber", by jump blocking. I think that is a legitimate minecraft technique and it already serves the purpose that you're suggesting ledge grabbing be used for.
2) All I can see for its use in combat is that it just lets you get up to higher ground where monsters can't get to you, but then, if you can climb, why can't they?
3) The only other use that it covers that jump blocking wouldn't is for jumping across a gap and grabbing the edge, but it's already been pointed out that by placing a ladder as you jump, you can accomplish the same thing, in fact you can accomplish something even better, since you could use the ladder grab move even if you're jumping at a sheer wall surface and not at a ledge.
I can see how it would perhaps be more convenient, but it would also be convenient to just not have to fight monsters, but obviously people don't want to go that far.
@Kaz21
Ever heard of having fun? Also as I said and a few others too this will open the room for much more harder enemies and much more enemy variety. It's not just for fun, it's to make Minecraft more accessible to people and new enemy types.
Yes, I actually enjoy having fun. That is why I play games.
Maybe you should suggest the mobs this would be useful for. As of right now, these techniques would not be useful for anything.
You shouldn't suggest something that isn't useful yet, that is like suggesting the addition of boats to game that doesn't have water yet. I mean yes, you could look at the boats and think they look great, but could you use them for anything practical yet? Nope.
@Kaz21
Ever heard of having fun? Also as I said and a few others too this will open the room for much more harder enemies and much more enemy variety. It's not just for fun, it's to make Minecraft more accessible to people and new enemy types.
Yes, I actually enjoy having fun. That is why I play games.
Maybe you should suggest the mobs this would be useful for. As of right now, these techniques would not be useful for anything.
You shouldn't suggest something that isn't useful yet, that is like suggesting the addition of boats to game that doesn't have water yet. I mean yes, you could look at the boats and think they look great, but could you use them for anything practical yet? Nope.
Gold is useless right now, so are eggs, and I think there's milk buckets too.
The game basically forces you to fight enemies, and I keep seeing people imply that you never need to fight.
It's not that you never have fighting come up, but it's never a situation that you gain anything from. There's never a reason to go out with the intention of killing something. All enemies are just obstacles you need to get past in order to get to where you want to go. Having enemies kill each other or wander off a cliff and die benefits you just as much as killing them yourself. This is the main reason that I view minecraft as a game that is not combat oriented.
And seriously, what the hell is with people going "More fluid and dynamic movement!"? I mean, isn't that just the vaguest damn thing in the world? Does something that boils down to "make it better than what it is now" even constitute an actual suggestion?
If we're talking about things like increasing the speed that you can move or something, that alone would make combat easier because you could run from enemies more easily. Unless you also made them faster, in which case, doesn't that just put you back at square one?
The game basically forces you to fight enemies, and I keep seeing people imply that you never need to fight.
It's not that you never have fighting come up, but it's never a situation that you gain anything from. There's never a reason to go out with the intention of killing something. All enemies are just obstacles you need to get past in order to get to where you want to go. Having enemies kill each other or wander off a cliff and die benefits you just as much as killing them yourself. This is the main reason that I view minecraft as a game that is not combat oriented.
And seriously, what the hell is with people going "More fluid and dynamic movement!"? I mean, isn't that just the vaguest damn thing in the world? Does something that boils down to "make it better than what it is now" even constitute an actual suggestion?
If we're talking about things like increasing the speed that you can move or something, that alone would make combat easier because you could run from enemies more easily. Unless you also made them faster, in which case, doesn't that just put you back at square one?
Yeah, not like your forced into tight corridors and dead ends when mining or anything.
It's cool bro, just keep in mind people like to use the loudest and the roudiest as an example as to why an idea sucks instead of the actual problems of an idea. It's called adhominem, and you're making it easy for them to pull off if you keep on acting out or literally using it yourself.
Remember oppose the idea with facts, not the individual.
After that, maybe some more advance combat mechanics. Not like spells or Mana or anything, just something more in depth.
Good suggestions:
Titans
Combat
Domestication
Did Notch ever reply to your tweet about this BTW?
Yea, The main argument is that some people want the game to be about survival. If you see a monster, then run. My suggestions would hopefully make this style of play more fun and give the option to play a more combat oriented game for people that don't want to frantically flee from everything (like me). Right now, more monsters wouldn't benefit either style of gameplay unless the mechanics were fixed.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56267
Good suggestions:
Titans
Combat
Domestication
Oh okay.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56267
Its a different strokes situation, but both parties can be attended to without harming either. Those who perfer to run will likely never need to USE the combat system. If anything the ability to dodge would give them better odds against a group of skeletons.
As for what Minecraft *is*: Minecraft is a game where you look for resources in dark caves full of monsters who wish to bite your face off. Key word is "Blood thirsty monsters". The current combat system is two things, one: horribly useless with anything less than a diamond sword. And two: absolutely needed if you want to get anything done.
If you just want to mine, play Peaceful. And for those saying veto the combat as a whole: Hell no, I am not playing Amnesia: 16 Bit Edition.
I think that, pound for pound, just implementing shields and a small dodge move will make a HUGE difference in the existing combat depth without affecting how the rest of the game is played at all. Heck, it wouldn't even require any alterations to the existing enemy AI, but a more complex AI could then be implemented to make the shield and dodge moves more important to surviving an encounter with those enemies.
that's the problem that i have with the other suggestions is that while they may add a little combat depth, it's not even close to how much the shields and dodge would give, but what they would more heavily affect is how the rest of the game is played.(and while you might treat that as a good thing, there are a lot of other people who don't want that at all) To me that just doesn't seem economical to push for something that doesn't get you as much of what you want and also upsets everyone else more, when you could be pushing for something that would get you more of what you want and wouldn't upset others nearly as much.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Agreed, there has to be a balance and adding dodging moves, or climbing moves allow both people who like combat and those who don't to handle threats in much more various ways than one.
@Grey
Tel me something do you at least like the climbing suggestions? Or you still think that clambering, ledge grabbing and climbing would platform this too much?
A more fluid movement system is needed at some point.
Yeah, so adding a shitload of techniques is going to make the combat oh so much fun?
As if the game isn't ****ing easy enough as it is. Also maybe you should try and fight **** while moving around, believe it or not if your not completely **** at playing games it's possible to fight the way YOU want to without taking damage.
I'm not saying that combat shouldn't be more fun but the suggested techniques are just stupid. How are they going to benefit the combat system in any way? By making it easier? Because you can jump side to side, charge forward, do a front flip over the zombie, start breakdancing, then hit it once. Wow, that will make combat so much more fun, for maybe, 5 minutes of combat before you realize it's faster and easier just to deal with enemies the current way.
Adding more techniques isn't going to make the combat more fun! "Hit, backpedal, hit" will still be an extremely valid option if you don't want to get hurt. Unless new mobs are added, which OP said shouldn't be added because combat is broken. Wait? What? That's ****ing contradicting isn't it?
The ONLY technique that could be useful in the future is a side to side dodge move, if things like charging mobs are added, etc. However, what are you even going to be dodging in the current system? Arrows? Well I can't imagine that you will be able to dodge them at point blank even with a technique like this, and you can already dodge them from medium range by just moving.
This is the sort of suggestion I hate more then anything, "Hey guys, wouldn't be cool if you could do dodges, rolls, dashes, slides, etc, I mean it would make the game much more fun right". Seriously, think about how much difference your idea would make to the game if implemented right now. It would implement some combat moves that would be, well practically useless.
Also I said that it isn't the main point of the game because it isn't. This is not a combat based game. Are you going to argue about that? That's like saying that it's a swimming based game, because at some point you will probably be swimming the game too.
Ever heard of having fun? Also as I said and a few others too this will open the room for much more harder enemies and much more enemy variety. It's not just for fun, it's to make Minecraft more accessible to people and new enemy types.
The game basically forces you to fight enemies, and I keep seeing people imply that you never need to fight.
No matter how many times and how many people say that it can improve combat, there will always be # issues that I have with it:
1) You can ALREADY get up just as high, just about as fast as you could realistically "clamber", by jump blocking. I think that is a legitimate minecraft technique and it already serves the purpose that you're suggesting ledge grabbing be used for.
2) All I can see for its use in combat is that it just lets you get up to higher ground where monsters can't get to you, but then, if you can climb, why can't they?
3) The only other use that it covers that jump blocking wouldn't is for jumping across a gap and grabbing the edge, but it's already been pointed out that by placing a ladder as you jump, you can accomplish the same thing, in fact you can accomplish something even better, since you could use the ladder grab move even if you're jumping at a sheer wall surface and not at a ledge.
I can see how it would perhaps be more convenient, but it would also be convenient to just not have to fight monsters, but obviously people don't want to go that far.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Yes, I actually enjoy having fun. That is why I play games.
Maybe you should suggest the mobs this would be useful for. As of right now, these techniques would not be useful for anything.
You shouldn't suggest something that isn't useful yet, that is like suggesting the addition of boats to game that doesn't have water yet. I mean yes, you could look at the boats and think they look great, but could you use them for anything practical yet? Nope.
Gold is useless right now, so are eggs, and I think there's milk buckets too.
It's not that you never have fighting come up, but it's never a situation that you gain anything from. There's never a reason to go out with the intention of killing something. All enemies are just obstacles you need to get past in order to get to where you want to go. Having enemies kill each other or wander off a cliff and die benefits you just as much as killing them yourself. This is the main reason that I view minecraft as a game that is not combat oriented.
And seriously, what the hell is with people going "More fluid and dynamic movement!"? I mean, isn't that just the vaguest damn thing in the world? Does something that boils down to "make it better than what it is now" even constitute an actual suggestion?
If we're talking about things like increasing the speed that you can move or something, that alone would make combat easier because you could run from enemies more easily. Unless you also made them faster, in which case, doesn't that just put you back at square one?
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Yeah, not like your forced into tight corridors and dead ends when mining or anything.