Never intended to do so. I've only made ~5 posts in this thread.
Personally I'm one of the people that think combat is fine as is (maybe including shields... I hate Skeletons) but I have nothing to contribute to this thread outside that, because almost certainly I'm going to be against it. (Doesn't mean I won't read it though)
Other than that, I'm pretty sure my only posts have been telling Abs about the Edit button back when he's make 3 posts, sometimes all in relation to one response. I said I'd leave, and I did. Until I saw flames, someone "ragequitting", and my SN being referenced.
I left man, I'm not the one who called my flamer back here. Other way around.
On topic of the Climbing Gloves (assuming this is what helps you go up 2 block heights), I'd just say make Jump boots. :/ It would make a little more sense, be more multipurpose, and already uses, intuitively, the armor system we have.
Why does everyone assume that if the combat is reworked, everyone has to play like that? Just have modes like we currently do. "Simple" can be like it is now (or will be when it's done), "Complex" will be more in-depth and focus more on fighting.
I think the OP is suggesting that this be ADDED to the game, not that the game be CHANGED to this.
Please stop flaming each other... You guys are derailing my thread.
It's one thing to disagree with an idea and to call into question another person's reasoning. The flaming occurring in this thread is pretty much coming from one source.
I have yet to hear feedback on the climbing gloves idea.
I've been letting the idea of climbing gloves percolate in the back of my head for a while now. My initial reaction was to reject it, but it depends on what limits it has. Personally, the durability is an absolute must, and have it operate so that each block you move over uses up 1 durability point.
On top of that, I don't think climbing gloves should work on smooth stone, obsidian or anything like that, but limit it to things like cobblestone and dirt, and then maybe also allow it to work on gravel and sand, but with a chance of breaking the gravel or sand block in the process.
Perhaps climbing different block types uses up different levels of durability, so cobblestone is the most secure block, but it uses up 2 points of durability, dirt and gravel use up 1 point, but are easier to break and thus fall off of, and sand and cloth use no durability but is the easiest to break.
They could even be made by crafting spiky cactus blocks, but at that rate I'm feeling like the player definitely shouldn't be able to use weapons while using climbing gloves, but that would make it easiest to implement them by making them another tool that is used from the primary inventory.
Unfortunately that idea basically negates your intention, which was to let you grab onto ledges while falling, which typically only happens inside caverns that consist primarily of smooth stone, ores, and possibly obsidian all of which I feel shouldn't be climbable, and also negates the ability to use them automatically instead of needing to select them like what you need to do with the ladder.
The jumping boots Sabata mentioned sound relatively feasible, and could possibly rely on the magic system Notch has tossed around. Start with gold boots as the base and add feathers and spidersilk, maybe some redstone dust and gunpowder. It would even make more sense for them to be activated through a doublejump at that rate, since then using the second jump could count against the durability of the boots.
Please stop flaming each other... You guys are derailing my thread.
It's one thing to disagree with an idea and to call into question another person's reasoning. The flaming occurring in this thread is pretty much coming from one source.
I have yet to hear feedback on the climbing gloves idea.
I've been letting the idea of climbing gloves percolate in the back of my head for a while now. My initial reaction was to reject it, but it depends on what limits it has. Personally, the durability is an absolute must, and have it operate so that each block you move over uses up 1 durability point.
On top of that, I don't think climbing gloves should work on smooth stone, obsidian or anything like that, but limit it to things like cobblestone and dirt, and then maybe also allow it to work on gravel and sand, but with a chance of breaking the gravel or sand block in the process.
Perhaps climbing different block types uses up different levels of durability, so cobblestone is the most secure block, but it uses up 2 points of durability, dirt and gravel use up 1 point, but are easier to break and thus fall off of, and sand and cloth use no durability but is the easiest to break.
They could even be made by crafting spiky cactus blocks, but at that rate I'm feeling like the player definitely shouldn't be able to use weapons while using climbing gloves, but that would make it easiest to implement them by making them another tool that is used from the primary inventory.
Unfortunately that idea basically negates your intention, which was to let you grab onto ledges while falling, which typically only happens inside caverns that consist primarily of smooth stone, ores, and possibly obsidian all of which I feel shouldn't be climbable, and also negates the ability to use them automatically instead of needing to select them like what you need to do with the ladder.
The jumping boots Sabata mentioned sound relatively feasible, and could possibly rely on the magic system Notch has tossed around. Start with gold boots as the base and add feathers and spidersilk, maybe some redstone dust and gunpowder. It would even make more sense for them to be activated through a doublejump at that rate, since then using the second jump could count against the durability of the boots.
I disagree with this. Random breaking of blocks would be frustrating and you would just have to carry ladders around anyways when you want to climb smoothstone or obsidian. If anything, climbing on sand and gravel should be impossible.
The ultimatum is either use ladders which require timing to place (when jumping) and require more resources per block but can be reused to negate the cost, or, use climbing glove which cost less per block and don't require timing but cost more to climb the same thing multiple times.
And I don't think you are assuming correctly, Sabata.
I disagree with this. Random breaking of blocks would be frustrating and you would just have to carry ladders around anyways when you want to climb smoothstone or obsidian. If anything, climbing on sand and gravel should be impossible.
Fair enough on the sand and gravel, but I still don't think climbing gloves should be able to find purchase in smooth stone. Cobblestone, sure, it has textured surface for the climbing gloves to find purchase in, but not smoothstone.
That's why I said that the way I visualize them, to keep them from being overpowered, would negate your reason for suggesting them.
The ultimatum is either use ladders which require timing to place (when jumping) and require more resources per block but can be reused to negate the cost, or, use climbing glove which cost less per block and don't require timing but cost more to climb the same thing multiple times.
And I don't think you are assuming correctly, Sabata.
It depends on what implementation sabata's idea used. If the boots worked with the doublejump implementation I mentioned, they would be just about as effective for catching yourself from a fall, since you'd still be able to use the second jump while in midair. They'd have to be carefully scripted though, or else people could just drop down 100 blocks and then use the doublejump at the last minute to negate their speed.
Meh I don't like the gloves too much, but I wouldn't mind them if they were as seemless as say Knuckle's climbing stuff in Sonic Adventure. Basically you can move in whichever direction you want when crawling/scaling the wall but you can't attack or anything of the like, you can just jump off or of course keep on climbing until you clamber up the object you're climbing. Still tohugh there is the issue of ladders being obsolete but that can be overcome with the durability meter attached to the gloves, which is enough of a con itself to think about the situation twice before using.
Of course I'd like a shield to defend, I already have suggested shields myself, but more than that begins to detract from the true focus of minecraft, which can be summed up as "survive, gather, build" If you start adding more skilled combat, the enemies would need to be more skilled and aggressive as well, at which point the combat begins to take precedence over the "gather and build" aspects of the game. Same thing for magic unless that magic is specifically geared towards traveling and the creation of more complex (possibly mobile) structures.
you keep on going "the combat is boring as it is" but the combat isn't the point of the game. You don't gain experience for killing them, you don't collect hearts to increase your health, you don't get gold to buy stuff with. Combat isn't the focus, the "gather and build" is really the focus of minecraft, and the "survive" portion is meant to provide a little pressure to help motivate the "gather and build" aspects.
I understand that you want more combat, but this isn't the game for that. Let me help you visualize the situation: Think of this game like a scene in a movie. "gather" and "build" are talking at a restaurant about something important. While they talk, "combat" is served for them to eat. In a REAL restaurant, people would start digging into the "combat" and you'd see them slice it u, chew, and maybe even comment on how it tastes, etc. But the focus in this movie scene is on "gather" and "build", so you likely wont even see them eat more than a single bite before they go back to talking and you wont even ever see them finish the meal at all.
Sorry to tell you this, but Minecraft may actually NOT be the game for you. If you like the gameplay of Dark Messiah, then that will be great any time you play dark messiah, but you can't expect Minecraft to incorporate and focus on combat the way dark messiah does any more than you can expect Dark Messiah to incorporate and focus on the lego-like building aspects of Minecraft.
As much fun as skulking down holes and refining is, it gets boring. But whats the point? Why bother playing at all?
You can build a huge fortress, but why? You can refine tons of iron, but why?
The whole "DURR IF ITS NOT ME IN A HOLE BREAKING BLOCK ITS NOT FUN" line of thinking is flawed.
This suggestion gives DEPTH to the game, it can make combat FUN.
I think you need to play some Zombie survival or something, if you think movement is tricky.
You can already make 2 block jumps, I don't see why it needs to be higher. Personally that would be pretty annoying, then I have to make the ceiling 4 blocks above the floor (33% more mining).
No I think you should go back to playing zombie survival.
You can't make 2 block jumps, not two blocks high anyway, and what is annoying is how right now you can only do about 5 different actions: Place ****, whack ****, jump, run, and crouch. The variety is never ending!
Yes, because the more buttons a game has, the better the game is.
I think you need to play some Zombie survival or something, if you think movement is tricky.
You can already make 2 block jumps, I don't see why it needs to be higher. Personally that would be pretty annoying, then I have to make the ceiling 4 blocks above the floor (33% more mining).
No I think you should go back to playing zombie survival.
You can't make 2 block jumps, not two blocks high anyway, and what is annoying is how right now you can only do about 5 different actions: Place ****, whack ****, jump, run, and crouch. The variety is never ending!
Yes, because the more buttons a game has, the better the game is.
And because the less buttons a game has, the better it is?
There is a point where it balances.
Also, my suggestion does not call for any new buttons. Shift for shield (because stealth is pretty useless) and double-tap a direction button for dash.
It's amazing how controversial this topic is. Even my 2x2 grid crafting didn't get such staunch opposition from both sides.
On one side you have the people who insist that the game is boring with the combat it has now, to which I can only ask; "why did you play it in the first place?"
and on the other side, you have people like me going "there are plenty of other games out there that focus on the combat, go play those if you want combat, we like the fact that it's NOT something for us to focus on."
@Gorman
This is not adding gimmicks or anything akin to it at all. Seriously climbing stuff, garbbing onto ledges you're jumping towards to, adding a rolling dash that is waaay faster than a simple sidestrafe, or a shield to block attacks in no way makes this game gimmicky or saturated. It makes the combat robust and it allows more room for much more complex mobs, creatures and challenges to fill the landscape, because Minecraft is not just about building, combat plays a huge roll at night for both resources and general survival. Plus combat right now is boring once you know the ins and outs, it's very very laughable.
@Fhyve
I don't like dashing, reminds me of anime and eastern animation, why not a rolling dodge?
It's just an aesthetics thing though I wouldn't mind it either way as long as the dodge maneuver can't be abused. No cool down, you just can't use it for 3 seconds or 2.
You haven't tried to extend something horizontally (in the air) if you say Stealth is useless... It stops you from falling so long as you hold it down.
And his point was great games can be made with minimal buttons. You don't NEED to expand often.
Anyways, IS the point of the Ledge Gloves to catch yourself on a fall? Cause that's the only difference I can find between the gloves and the boots. Please explain further.
And his point was great games can be made with minimal buttons. You don't NEED to expand often.
He got his point, his point is that you don't need to keep a game minimal either.
There can be balance don't waddle back to your cave, and look at what people are proposing, so far you're doing okay, but don't waddle back to that inane mentality that Minecraft's gaming mechanics must be kept as primitive as an oldschool competitive FPS were gaming revolves around glitch jumping, sidestepping and clicking like a mad man.
You haven't tried to extend something horizontally (in the air) if you say Stealth is useless... It stops you from falling so long as you hold it down.
I don't think Fhyve means that sneak is useless for everything, just that it's useless for dealing with mobs, since sneaking seems to have little to no affect over how easily they notice you.
Quote from spartacuscat »
@Fhyve
I don't like dashing, reminds me of anime and eastern animation, why not a rolling dodge?
It's just an aesthetics thing though I wouldn't mind it either way as long as the dodge maneuver can't be abused. No cool down, you just can't use it for 3 seconds or 2.
I just see the doubletap dodge/dash as being simpler to implement, since it seems like it would accomplish exactly the same thing as the rolling dodge, but not require Notch to add in any rolling animation or move the camera in funky directions to indicate that a "roll" has taken place.
It's amazing how controversial this topic is. Even my 2x2 grid crafting didn't get such staunch opposition from both sides.
On one side you have the people who insist that the game is boring with the combat it has now, to which I can only ask; "why did you play it in the first place?"
and on the other side, you have people like me going "there are plenty of other games out there that focus on the combat, go play those if you want combat, we like the fact that it's NOT something for us to focus on."
No one is forcing you to fight, if you don't want to use the combat system, just run from enemies. And I started playing it because I found the game insanely fun, and I still do. But its devoid of features, features give variety to please more players.
All I hear from the opposition is "Wah! The game suits someone elses tastes! GTFO FAGGOT YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING MINECRAFT LOL"
I just see the doubletap dodge/dash as being simpler to implement, since it seems like it would accomplish exactly the same thing as the rolling dodge, but not require Notch to add in any rolling animation or move the camera in funky directions to indicate that a "roll" has taken place.
Battlefront 1 and 2 managed to pull it off seamlessly. Still though Notch is lazy when it comes to animating, then again he already has an artist in the team anyhow...
"why did you play it in the first place?"
I play the game on peaceful because the combat is frustrating.
Quote from sabata2 »
You haven't tried to extend something horizontally (in the air) if you say Stealth is useless... It stops you from falling so long as you hold it down.
And his point was great games can be made with minimal buttons. You don't NEED to expand often.
Anyways, IS the point of the Ledge Gloves to catch yourself on a fall? Cause that's the only difference I can find between the gloves and the boots. Please explain further.
The point of the climbing glove isn't really to get over 2 block obstacles. It is more for making the climb mechanic on ladders more usable which gets over 2 blocks already.
The boots would be a good idea though for the movement enhancements. If you want more maneuverability, you have to sacrifice a (little) bit of armour.
And let me rephrase my idea on stealth (because that is a legitimate use you gave). It is useless in combat situations and it isn't used for the mechanic that it's name implies. Pressing shift without a shield would still make you walk slow so you could place blocks on the sides of structures.
@ eightblade, no one is flaming THAT hard. Please stop baiting it and using ridicule as an argument tactic. This is not an argument, this is a discussion
"why did you play it in the first place?"
I play the game on peaceful because the combat is frustrating.
Quote from sabata2 »
You haven't tried to extend something horizontally (in the air) if you say Stealth is useless... It stops you from falling so long as you hold it down.
And his point was great games can be made with minimal buttons. You don't NEED to expand often.
Anyways, IS the point of the Ledge Gloves to catch yourself on a fall? Cause that's the only difference I can find between the gloves and the boots. Please explain further.
The point of the climbing glove isn't really to get over 2 block obstacles. It is more for making the climb mechanic on ladders more usable which gets over 2 blocks already.
The boots would be a good idea though for the movement enhancements. If you want more maneuverability, you have to sacrifice a (little) bit of armour.
And let me rephrase my idea on stealth (because that is a legitimate use you gave). It is useless in combat situations and it isn't used for the mechanic that it's name implies. Pressing shift without a shield would still make you walk slow so you could place blocks on the sides of structures.
@ eightblade, no one is flaming THAT hard. Please stop baiting it and using ridicule as an argument tactic. This is not an argument, this is a discussion
Sorry about that, I just get sick of all these suggestions being met with the same tired "You just don't GET Minecraft".
Combat depth is needed if Notch wants to keep adding more powerful monsters, not to mention how fun it could be.
I have yet to hear feedback on the climbing gloves idea.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56267
Personally I'm one of the people that think combat is fine as is (maybe including shields... I hate Skeletons) but I have nothing to contribute to this thread outside that, because almost certainly I'm going to be against it. (Doesn't mean I won't read it though)
Other than that, I'm pretty sure my only posts have been telling Abs about the Edit button back when he's make 3 posts, sometimes all in relation to one response. I said I'd leave, and I did. Until I saw flames, someone "ragequitting", and my SN being referenced.
I left man, I'm not the one who called my flamer back here. Other way around.
On topic of the Climbing Gloves (assuming this is what helps you go up 2 block heights), I'd just say make Jump boots. :/ It would make a little more sense, be more multipurpose, and already uses, intuitively, the armor system we have.
I think the OP is suggesting that this be ADDED to the game, not that the game be CHANGED to this.
I've been letting the idea of climbing gloves percolate in the back of my head for a while now. My initial reaction was to reject it, but it depends on what limits it has. Personally, the durability is an absolute must, and have it operate so that each block you move over uses up 1 durability point.
On top of that, I don't think climbing gloves should work on smooth stone, obsidian or anything like that, but limit it to things like cobblestone and dirt, and then maybe also allow it to work on gravel and sand, but with a chance of breaking the gravel or sand block in the process.
Perhaps climbing different block types uses up different levels of durability, so cobblestone is the most secure block, but it uses up 2 points of durability, dirt and gravel use up 1 point, but are easier to break and thus fall off of, and sand and cloth use no durability but is the easiest to break.
They could even be made by crafting spiky cactus blocks, but at that rate I'm feeling like the player definitely shouldn't be able to use weapons while using climbing gloves, but that would make it easiest to implement them by making them another tool that is used from the primary inventory.
Unfortunately that idea basically negates your intention, which was to let you grab onto ledges while falling, which typically only happens inside caverns that consist primarily of smooth stone, ores, and possibly obsidian all of which I feel shouldn't be climbable, and also negates the ability to use them automatically instead of needing to select them like what you need to do with the ladder.
The jumping boots Sabata mentioned sound relatively feasible, and could possibly rely on the magic system Notch has tossed around. Start with gold boots as the base and add feathers and spidersilk, maybe some redstone dust and gunpowder. It would even make more sense for them to be activated through a doublejump at that rate, since then using the second jump could count against the durability of the boots.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
I disagree with this. Random breaking of blocks would be frustrating and you would just have to carry ladders around anyways when you want to climb smoothstone or obsidian. If anything, climbing on sand and gravel should be impossible.
The ultimatum is either use ladders which require timing to place (when jumping) and require more resources per block but can be reused to negate the cost, or, use climbing glove which cost less per block and don't require timing but cost more to climb the same thing multiple times.
And I don't think you are assuming correctly, Sabata.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56267
I honestly couldn't find any functional difference :/ (outside of the can catch yourself on a fall part)
*for clarification*
I don't like the combat expansion, but the ledge gloves are atleast worth talking about on their own.
That's why I said that the way I visualize them, to keep them from being overpowered, would negate your reason for suggesting them.
It depends on what implementation sabata's idea used. If the boots worked with the doublejump implementation I mentioned, they would be just about as effective for catching yourself from a fall, since you'd still be able to use the second jump while in midair. They'd have to be carefully scripted though, or else people could just drop down 100 blocks and then use the doublejump at the last minute to negate their speed.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
As much fun as skulking down holes and refining is, it gets boring. But whats the point? Why bother playing at all?
You can build a huge fortress, but why? You can refine tons of iron, but why?
The whole "DURR IF ITS NOT ME IN A HOLE BREAKING BLOCK ITS NOT FUN" line of thinking is flawed.
This suggestion gives DEPTH to the game, it can make combat FUN.
Yes, because the more buttons a game has, the better the game is.
And because the less buttons a game has, the better it is?
There is a point where it balances.
Also, my suggestion does not call for any new buttons. Shift for shield (because stealth is pretty useless) and double-tap a direction button for dash.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56267
On one side you have the people who insist that the game is boring with the combat it has now, to which I can only ask; "why did you play it in the first place?"
and on the other side, you have people like me going "there are plenty of other games out there that focus on the combat, go play those if you want combat, we like the fact that it's NOT something for us to focus on."
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
This is not adding gimmicks or anything akin to it at all. Seriously climbing stuff, garbbing onto ledges you're jumping towards to, adding a rolling dash that is waaay faster than a simple sidestrafe, or a shield to block attacks in no way makes this game gimmicky or saturated. It makes the combat robust and it allows more room for much more complex mobs, creatures and challenges to fill the landscape, because Minecraft is not just about building, combat plays a huge roll at night for both resources and general survival. Plus combat right now is boring once you know the ins and outs, it's very very laughable.
@Fhyve
I don't like dashing, reminds me of anime and eastern animation, why not a rolling dodge?
It's just an aesthetics thing though I wouldn't mind it either way as long as the dodge maneuver can't be abused. No cool down, you just can't use it for 3 seconds or 2.
And his point was great games can be made with minimal buttons. You don't NEED to expand often.
Anyways, IS the point of the Ledge Gloves to catch yourself on a fall? Cause that's the only difference I can find between the gloves and the boots. Please explain further.
He got his point, his point is that you don't need to keep a game minimal either.
There can be balance don't waddle back to your cave, and look at what people are proposing, so far you're doing okay, but don't waddle back to that inane mentality that Minecraft's gaming mechanics must be kept as primitive as an oldschool competitive FPS were gaming revolves around glitch jumping, sidestepping and clicking like a mad man.
I don't think Fhyve means that sneak is useless for everything, just that it's useless for dealing with mobs, since sneaking seems to have little to no affect over how easily they notice you.
I just see the doubletap dodge/dash as being simpler to implement, since it seems like it would accomplish exactly the same thing as the rolling dodge, but not require Notch to add in any rolling animation or move the camera in funky directions to indicate that a "roll" has taken place.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
No one is forcing you to fight, if you don't want to use the combat system, just run from enemies. And I started playing it because I found the game insanely fun, and I still do. But its devoid of features, features give variety to please more players.
All I hear from the opposition is "Wah! The game suits someone elses tastes! GTFO FAGGOT YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING MINECRAFT LOL"
Battlefront 1 and 2 managed to pull it off seamlessly. Still though Notch is lazy when it comes to animating, then again he already has an artist in the team anyhow...
I play the game on peaceful because the combat is frustrating.
The point of the climbing glove isn't really to get over 2 block obstacles. It is more for making the climb mechanic on ladders more usable which gets over 2 blocks already.
The boots would be a good idea though for the movement enhancements. If you want more maneuverability, you have to sacrifice a (little) bit of armour.
And let me rephrase my idea on stealth (because that is a legitimate use you gave). It is useless in combat situations and it isn't used for the mechanic that it's name implies. Pressing shift without a shield would still make you walk slow so you could place blocks on the sides of structures.
@ eightblade, no one is flaming THAT hard. Please stop baiting it and using ridicule as an argument tactic. This is not an argument, this is a discussion
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56267
Sorry about that, I just get sick of all these suggestions being met with the same tired "You just don't GET Minecraft".
Combat depth is needed if Notch wants to keep adding more powerful monsters, not to mention how fun it could be.