theoretically it would, but I already have Jump set as a way to get out of the boat more easily, and with hot air balloons, you typically have to control the burners directly in them to control your height. It wouldn't be a big deal in a single boat airship, since you'd always be sitting right under the balloon, but bigger, more impressive airships should take more work to maintain.
Let me get the Airship furnaces loaded up so people can see how they look.
I'm just going to post these here for the moment. It demonstrates the rough layout for the most basic Hot Air Envelope burners. Larger airships will be able to put a furnace next to the balloons, and the furnace will take on the properties of the Hot air burners, but with the ability to stack fuel, and have it provided to multiple burners at once, so that the furnace becomes the global control system for its surrounding Hot air Envelopes.
NOTE: Even though only the 3rd picture mentions it, all figures for fuel consumption ratio are based on being at under or at acceptable weight tolerances, and being overweight causes fuel to burn faster in correlation to the amount overweight.
ADDITIONAL NOTE: Each set of burns (Left, right, both) count as a unique burn operation and will not consume fuel until both slots that are currently burning are done. If the right side is still burning, then putting fuel in the left side will not cause the fuel in the left side to immediately start burning, but will instead wait until the right side is finished burning to begin the next burn sequence.
Do we need to wait for the flame to go out before its start desending/not ascending because if you remove the coal there are still a flame left there for sometimes?
pretty much, yes, just like how you'd often have a delay when setting a burn to a regular hot air balloon before it actually ascended or descended. If you want to be able to change direction faster, using sticks or wood for fuel will allow you more precise control, but also not last as long, requiring you to place it more often.
This stuff is definitely something to keep in mind in later, but it all depend on how well the ability to "attach boats" works to begin with, so I don't want to get too deep into those ideas until we either hear something from Notch sying this is possible, or manage to test this method out in an actual mod. Since Masts don't come prebuilt with sails, they could easily double as posts to build up from. (I've even already proposed that they have a small ladder block built into the back of them so that people can climb up on top of the mast)
The balancing is easy to calculate: ((boat blocks in upper level)^(1/2)) <= ((boat blocks in lower level)^(1/2) - 2)
for those not too math savvy, 4^(1/2) = 2, 9^(1/2)=3. So this means that a ship consisting of 9 boat blocks may place a 10th block on an upper level. A ship consisting of 16 may place 4 blocks on an upper level. Even more multiple levels could even be incorporated, but it should get more expensive with each level, like the 3rd level should need ((boat blocks in upper level)^(1/2)) <= ((boat blocks in lower level)^(1/2) - 3) so that in order to place a single boat block, the level under it would need to have 16 boat blocks, which means the level below THAT would need to have 36 boat blocks. and so on.
This balancing method would also mean that if people only barely fit the requirements, then they'd be in danger of all of their levels breaking if even just one of their lower boat blocks broke in a crash.
and yes, it would be cool, and feasible if you found a boat in multiplayer to capture them and use them to build onto your own boat.
Ropes could indeed help with something like that, and the last couple posts in my 2x2 crafting thread are even currently discussing that issue, but that's really something that needs its own thread.
if that was his first then i concur... but in any case i support joes interpreted expansion and the overall post. Im peaked at the prospect of sea based item transport in bulk, and the many additional creative and dynamic ideas that have come up along with.
Also, I think that 1 iron ingot per cannon shot is a bit much. Instead, I think making a crafting recipe for cannonballs would be better than using an entire ingot for one shot.
[] [] []
[] = 8 cannonballs
[]
I think a 2 cannon shots per iron ingot would be a good ratio.
Also, I think that 1 iron ingot per cannon shot is a bit much. Instead, I think making a crafting recipe for cannonballs would be better than using an entire ingot for one shot.
[] [] []
[] = 8 cannonballs
[]
I think a 2 cannon shots per iron ingot would be a good ratio.
It's something I'll consider. That would be a good way of bringing the ratio down, and would still let the player do the crafting on the fly using the 2x2 grid.
At that rate though, It's almost more tempting to go with;
[] []
[] []
and then not need to have gunpowder separate from the cannonballs.
why not have an airship powered by enchantedblocks? I dont see whats wrong with going up above to survey the landscape? Ir wouldnt be the death of mine craft
Because "NEW BLOCKS" is the cheap answer for those who aren't creative enough to realize how it can be done with the tools already available.
This idea can function without the Aether, but as the blocks that are being introduced with the Aether become more fully defined, I do plan to work them into Aether-specific-airships; Aetherships.
In fact, I'm working on game mechanics for the Aether than may make it so normal Airships don't function as well in Aether and Aetherships don't function as well in the Overworld.
Sorry, no submarines as of yet. Until something like Oceancraft is implemented, with actual oceans and deep underwater caverns and such, it really wont be necessary. Even then I expect underwater exploration to be better handled through personal diving equipment and having some sort of oxygen replenishment system(possibly through created items and possibly through enchanted equipment, and also by being able to create air pockets by building ledges underground and using the bucket to get the water out of the way. Boats already break easily and are ineffective for navigating narrow routes and trails. Submarines would be just as bad or worse.
It's nice to have a voice of experience, and I know you're correct, at least about professionally built Hot Air Balloons, but with your knowledge about Hot Air Balloons, I'm amazed that you think that one man would be able to stitch a proper one from wool and Silk strands. :tongue.gif:
That's my excuse anyway. Sure your balloons are built so that losing air normally will just bring them floating gently to the ground, but these are entirely crude Hot Air Balloons that one man put together by himself out of bits of cloth and string he's scavenged and scraped together. It's not fuel efficient, and requires constant burning just to stay in the air, and even when descending still need short controlled bursts to keep it from falling too fast.
Quote from PlanetNiles »
May I suggest instead of putting the burner as a separate element include it with the envelope.
The burner already IS part of the envelope. (built by putting the Bucket and Flint & Steel together)
That furnace menu you see is the basic burner furnace, not the furnace furnace. You can tell by lack of output slot, since the burner can't do any smelting process. So you already have to right click on the balloon in order to access the fuel. None of the inventory, workbench, or furnace menus have any buttons on them, so how would you even trigger the opening of the vents that you would be talking about? If you would want right clicking on the balloon to trigger the vents with right click, then what would you do to access the fuel?
Burning fuel will heat the envelope which, when sufficently filled with hot air, will rise towards maximum altitude. The boyancy of the envelope can be illustrated as with the flames of the furnace. When the flames are at their maximum the craft will rise; midway and the craft maintains neutral buoyancy; below midway and the craft will sink. As long as the craft has fuel it will want to rise but the pilot can control the amount of heat in the envelope and thus maintain level flight or land.
It's this last statement here that is what causes the problems. You say the player can control the heat, but HOW can they control the heat?
If you're looking at the idea that the player sticks in a piece of coal and the heat rises towards max, and then if they don't put fuel in, it cools, fine, but then how does the player maintain level flight without needing to CONSTANTLY add fuel every 10 seconds while they bob up and down in the air while trying to steer?
I'm sure you can do it fine in real life, but it's a little clunkier when you're doing it through a game interface, and even worse when you have an airship that has 4-12 different balloons keeping it afloat.
So that's basically what it comes down to. Unless you have some incredibly ingenious menu system that I'm just not visualizing here, then your method would allow, AT BEST, either up or down, but no ability to maintain level flight, which most players are going to want, so that they can actually focus on navigating and steering on a horizontal plane.
erhem A) BrotherS, :cool.gif: They constructed a globe-shaped balloon of sackcloth with three thin layers of paper inside. The envelope could contain nearly 790 m³ (28,000 cubic feet) of air and weighed 225 kg (500 lb). It was constructed of four pieces (the dome and three lateral bands) and held together by 1,800 buttons. A reinforcing fish net of cord covered the outside of the envelope.
So, yeah, a little more than cloth and string :tongue.gif:
I was thinking that whomever was at the wheel of the craft (since it is unlikely Notch will implement air currents IMO) could simply press a button, either on their keyboard or attached to the envelope via red dust (perhaps in the case of large craft) to cause the envelope to cool.
Maintaining the modular design would make using redstone to attach buttons to anything difficult and unintuitive at best, and I'm strictly opposed to adding a keystroke purely for a single function that is only of an optional portion of the game. Sneak is already being used to make sure you don't fall off of the craft, though I suppose provided you're SEATED at the wheel, it could be reasonable to have sneak handle lowering the craft.
Navigation could be best done at maximum altitude (which would be above 128m) since a furled craft, which could be held aloft by a bucket of lava, would be prone to rise to this level as long naturally.
I don't really like the idea of just being able to stick in a bucket of lava, at least not without high risk of their balloon going up in flames. I'm also not sure I want to limit people to defaulting to max altitude either. Sure it's best for navigating in the sky, but people still might want to be able to fly lower, possibly in order to go underground.
A craft would only need to descend, or maintain level flight below maximum altitude, if they were looking to land or avoiding other craft. Thus flight would actually be a case of skill and judgement that one had to develop rather than just pressing buttons to go where you wanted.
AFAIK that's something we both want from this. :smile.gif:
Actually, my focus isn't so much on the skill as the risk. I want it to be accessible to anyone just about as easily as the boats or minecarts are, but I want people to be facing the constant risk of imminent demise if anything goes wrong.
(like running out of fuel)
Other than the burning fuel to descend (which TBH is something a balloonist does do, to arrest downward momentum) I basically agree with most of what you've said here, and in your other threads.
Wait, hold on now. I thought that the whole thing you were taking issue to begin with was the fact that it was burning fuel as you descended?
Quote from PlanetNiles »
IME Hot Air powered lighter than air craft do not burn fuel to descend. <snip>
Burning fuel to descend would be such a jarring thing for me it could spoil the experience for me.
Now you're saying that balloonists DO burn fuel as they descend? I even explained in the description that the one burner is constant and provides level flight, and the other burner does short bursts that either arrest downward acceleration so you can descend safely, or when used with the other burner provides short bursts of lift.
That's the beauty of the modular design. You can build small and just have a bunch of floating chests a workbench and a furnace that you can drive down the rivers and lakes. Then once you hit open ocean, you can keep building up even bigger from there.
Let me get the Airship furnaces loaded up so people can see how they look.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
NOTE: Even though only the 3rd picture mentions it, all figures for fuel consumption ratio are based on being at under or at acceptable weight tolerances, and being overweight causes fuel to burn faster in correlation to the amount overweight.
ADDITIONAL NOTE: Each set of burns (Left, right, both) count as a unique burn operation and will not consume fuel until both slots that are currently burning are done. If the right side is still burning, then putting fuel in the left side will not cause the fuel in the left side to immediately start burning, but will instead wait until the right side is finished burning to begin the next burn sequence.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
The balancing is easy to calculate: ((boat blocks in upper level)^(1/2)) <= ((boat blocks in lower level)^(1/2) - 2)
for those not too math savvy, 4^(1/2) = 2, 9^(1/2)=3. So this means that a ship consisting of 9 boat blocks may place a 10th block on an upper level. A ship consisting of 16 may place 4 blocks on an upper level. Even more multiple levels could even be incorporated, but it should get more expensive with each level, like the 3rd level should need ((boat blocks in upper level)^(1/2)) <= ((boat blocks in lower level)^(1/2) - 3) so that in order to place a single boat block, the level under it would need to have 16 boat blocks, which means the level below THAT would need to have 36 boat blocks. and so on.
This balancing method would also mean that if people only barely fit the requirements, then they'd be in danger of all of their levels breaking if even just one of their lower boat blocks broke in a crash.
and yes, it would be cool, and feasible if you found a boat in multiplayer to capture them and use them to build onto your own boat.
Ropes could indeed help with something like that, and the last couple posts in my 2x2 crafting thread are even currently discussing that issue, but that's really something that needs its own thread.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
if that was his first then i concur... but in any case i support joes interpreted expansion and the overall post. Im peaked at the prospect of sea based item transport in bulk, and the many additional creative and dynamic ideas that have come up along with.
Also, I think that 1 iron ingot per cannon shot is a bit much. Instead, I think making a crafting recipe for cannonballs would be better than using an entire ingot for one shot.
[] [] []
[] = 8 cannonballs
[]
I think a 2 cannon shots per iron ingot would be a good ratio.
It's something I'll consider. That would be a good way of bringing the ratio down, and would still let the player do the crafting on the fly using the 2x2 grid.
At that rate though, It's almost more tempting to go with;
[] []
[] []
and then not need to have gunpowder separate from the cannonballs.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
This idea can function without the Aether, but as the blocks that are being introduced with the Aether become more fully defined, I do plan to work them into Aether-specific-airships; Aetherships.
In fact, I'm working on game mechanics for the Aether than may make it so normal Airships don't function as well in Aether and Aetherships don't function as well in the Overworld.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
That's my excuse anyway. Sure your balloons are built so that losing air normally will just bring them floating gently to the ground, but these are entirely crude Hot Air Balloons that one man put together by himself out of bits of cloth and string he's scavenged and scraped together. It's not fuel efficient, and requires constant burning just to stay in the air, and even when descending still need short controlled bursts to keep it from falling too fast.
The burner already IS part of the envelope. (built by putting the Bucket and Flint & Steel together)
That furnace menu you see is the basic burner furnace, not the furnace furnace. You can tell by lack of output slot, since the burner can't do any smelting process. So you already have to right click on the balloon in order to access the fuel. None of the inventory, workbench, or furnace menus have any buttons on them, so how would you even trigger the opening of the vents that you would be talking about? If you would want right clicking on the balloon to trigger the vents with right click, then what would you do to access the fuel?
It's this last statement here that is what causes the problems. You say the player can control the heat, but HOW can they control the heat?
If you're looking at the idea that the player sticks in a piece of coal and the heat rises towards max, and then if they don't put fuel in, it cools, fine, but then how does the player maintain level flight without needing to CONSTANTLY add fuel every 10 seconds while they bob up and down in the air while trying to steer?
I'm sure you can do it fine in real life, but it's a little clunkier when you're doing it through a game interface, and even worse when you have an airship that has 4-12 different balloons keeping it afloat.
So that's basically what it comes down to. Unless you have some incredibly ingenious menu system that I'm just not visualizing here, then your method would allow, AT BEST, either up or down, but no ability to maintain level flight, which most players are going to want, so that they can actually focus on navigating and steering on a horizontal plane.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
erhem A) BrotherS, :cool.gif: They constructed a globe-shaped balloon of sackcloth with three thin layers of paper inside. The envelope could contain nearly 790 m³ (28,000 cubic feet) of air and weighed 225 kg (500 lb). It was constructed of four pieces (the dome and three lateral bands) and held together by 1,800 buttons. A reinforcing fish net of cord covered the outside of the envelope.
So, yeah, a little more than cloth and string :tongue.gif:
Maintaining the modular design would make using redstone to attach buttons to anything difficult and unintuitive at best, and I'm strictly opposed to adding a keystroke purely for a single function that is only of an optional portion of the game. Sneak is already being used to make sure you don't fall off of the craft, though I suppose provided you're SEATED at the wheel, it could be reasonable to have sneak handle lowering the craft.
I don't really like the idea of just being able to stick in a bucket of lava, at least not without high risk of their balloon going up in flames. I'm also not sure I want to limit people to defaulting to max altitude either. Sure it's best for navigating in the sky, but people still might want to be able to fly lower, possibly in order to go underground.
Actually, my focus isn't so much on the skill as the risk. I want it to be accessible to anyone just about as easily as the boats or minecarts are, but I want people to be facing the constant risk of imminent demise if anything goes wrong.
(like running out of fuel)
Wait, hold on now. I thought that the whole thing you were taking issue to begin with was the fact that it was burning fuel as you descended?
Now you're saying that balloonists DO burn fuel as they descend? I even explained in the description that the one burner is constant and provides level flight, and the other burner does short bursts that either arrest downward acceleration so you can descend safely, or when used with the other burner provides short bursts of lift.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series