the powder bomb can be reduced to 1gunpowder + 1 cloth,
then dynamite being used equivalent to TNT would require 6 gunpowder, 6 cloth, 3 stick, and 3 string
and the fuse bomb method would require 9 gunpowder, 9 cloth, and 3 string.
I've updated my original post to include the 1gunpowder+1cloth powderbomb, and the dynamite that can be created from it.
My only condition then is that we both preface our arguments with "I believe".
Since we've gotten to this point, I'd have to say that if we preface our arguments, we won't have to try to counter each other's arguments for someone new to the thread.
Maybe we can get the OP to include Fubar's limitations (or some variation everyone from my side can back) in his first post and start a vote thread?
That is fine by me :smile.gif: I would rather make the drawback bigger then nerf the advantage but that's more of my personal opinion.
One idea for knife throwing that I had while reading this was make knives "disappear" (like arrows) when they hit a target. This way you can balance the whole thing with a "die of a thousand cuts or use it once to put a really big whole in him" Yes? No? And if you miss you can pick it back up of course. Also, the player could make a choice lots of daggers that reward micro managing when throw but cost a lot to use i.e. one time use if thrown, or keep one/two daggers for more efficient but slower damage? This seem balanced to you all? Seems about right to me. I don't have numbers to go with this but that's the main idea.
One idea for knife throwing that I had while reading this was make knives "disappear" (like arrows) when they hit a target. This way you can balance the whole thing with a "die of a thousand cuts or use it once to put a really big whole in him" Yes? No? And if you miss you can pick it back up of course. Also, the player could make a choice lots of daggers that reward micro managing when throw but cost a lot to use i.e. one time use if thrown, or keep one/two daggers for more efficient but slower damage? This seem balanced to you all? Seems about right to me. I don't have numbers to go with this but that's the main idea.
No, it's one thing to do that when you can carry a stack of 64 arrows, but not when you can't stack them. At that point no one will ever throw a knife unless it's already about to break anyway.
My idea, of having it added to the loot the enemy will drop after dying, already gives you a chance of losing your knife if the enemy manages to run away or kill you before you kill it. Plus when you throw it, it's taking damage to its durability even if it misses the enemy. Plus the range is a LOT shorter than the bow or sling, probably only about 2 - 3 times the range of attacking melee with a sword, or half of the range of a sling (1/4 the range of a bow).
"My idea, of having it added to the loot the enemy will drop after dying, already gives you a chance of losing your knife if the enemy manages to run away or kill you before you kill it."
ok I missed that point. ya I like that idea better.
So, we have weapons, tools, explosives...what else might be useful to be crafted on the run? Ammo maybe? I think exploration tools like compasses and maps should require preparation to use. Camp stove perhaps? One time use for cooking meat? Craft it as such.
Allows you to cook one pork with out needing a furnace. How would you balance this? Expensive and time consuming? Making mass production of grilled pork impractical to the point of being a non-issue? I think could be quite useful but not over powered.
well, lets face it, you're effectively burning 2 coal and 2 wood just for 1 piece of meat, when you could cook about 6 -10 meat in the furnace for the cost of just 1 coal, and the furnace itself is only 8 cobblestone which are more than plentiful. That seems excessively expensive.
So, we have weapons, tools, explosives...what else might be useful to be crafted on the run? Ammo maybe? I think exploration tools like compasses and maps should require preparation to use. Camp stove perhaps? One time use for cooking meat? Craft it as such.
Allows you to cook one pork with out needing a furnace. How would you balance this? Expensive and time consuming? Making mass production of grilled pork impractical to the point of being a non-issue? I think could be quite useful but not over powered.
Perhaps give it about 20 cook(s?), but you can't use it to smelt, only to cook food.
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Passive minecrafter FTW.
Hamumu.com, the site I should thank for helping me find minecraft.
The Grill already has its own fuel that only is consumed during the actual cooking process, and is not wasted when the grill is left sitting or between changing meat over. Because of this it can cook a total of 10(8-14 range as balance dictates) pieces of meat, and does not require a pick to take down. The length of time required to cook each piece of meat is twice as long as when done in a furnace.
Quote from AuroraKing »
Excellent idea and makes use of otherwise useless gravel. +1.
Whose idea is making use of gravel? Ianmac's version uses wood and coal, and mine uses cobblestone and torches (sticks + coal)
Or are you talking about the gravel can be crafted to make bullets for the sling idea?
Also, gravel isn't useless, as each block has a random chance of dropping flint, which is used for making arrows, and when it doesn't drop flint, it drops a gravel block, you can just keep placing and breaking the same gravel block until it gives you flint instead.
Okay, the next idea for the 2x2 Crafting grid are small shields. However they are based on the idea that shields will be implemented. I've provided a description for regular shields in a quote at the end.
Small Shields: Crafting
[] _ [] _ [] _ [] _ _ _
Small Shields are used and function in roughly the same manner as full Shields, but have roughly half the number of uses as their full counterpart. ( / :GoldBar:=25, :Iron:=49, :Diamond:=96) Even when actively guarding will only prevent full damage if the attack was taken to a small area surrounding the exact center of the screen. Any damage outside of this area comes from the front it will only be reduced by 1/2 before being applied to armor and HP. Damage from any other direction will still be fully applied to armor and HP.
In the case of arrows, Small shields will only catch or absorb their damage if caught in the center of the screen.
SHIELDS:
The shield operates slightly different than other armor; rather than absorbing a percentage of the damage to the player based on damage the armor has taken, (resulting in the player still possibly taking damage when hit) shields operate on an all-or-nothing basis until completely destroyed. The Shield Slot for the shield to be equipped to would be just below the crafting box and to the right of the avatar display. The Crafting Box would be moved up slightly to make room for this.
In order to use the shield, it must first be equipped and then the sneak button must be held. While the shield is made active by holding the sneak button, using left or right click will be disabled and the player will move slower, but all damage from the front is applied completely to the shield first. This prevents damage to other equipped armor and health, but results in the shield getting damaged much faster than regular armor. Damage from all directions other than the front will bypass the shield entirely, even if equipped and active.
Wood Shield: Crafting(Workbench)
[] []
[]
Uses; 49 (fire x1, fire if active x2, arrow x1)
This is also the only armor that can be created from wood.
Wooden Shields take damage if the player is on fire while they are equipped, even though it will not act to absorb any of the damage the player takes.
Wooden Shields will automatically add arrows to the player's inventory if successfully blocked, though full damage of the arrow is given to the shield.
Gold Shield: Crafting(Workbench)
[] []
[]
Uses; 49 (fire x0, fire if active x0, arrow x2/3)
Gold Shields do not absorb fire damage taken by the player while equipped, but neither is that fire damage counted against the number of uses the shield has.
Gold Shields do not add arrows to the inventory if blocked, but it will cut the damage applied by the arrows to the shield by 1/3.
Iron Shield: Crafting(Workbench)
[] []
[]
Uses; 96 (fire x0, fire if active x1, arrow x1/3)
Iron Shields do no not absorb damage taken by the player while equipped, but can take damage from fire if actively used while the player is still on fire.
Iron Shields do not add arrows to the inventory if blocked, but it will cut the damage applied by the arrows to the shield by 2/3.
Diamond shield: Crafting(Workbench)
[] []
[]
Uses; 192 (fire x 0, fire if active x0, arrow x0)
Diamond Shields do not absorb fire damage taken by the player while equipped, but neither is that fire damage counted against the number of uses the shield has.
Diamond Shields do not add arrows to the inventory if blocked, but cut all damage applied by the arrow to the shield.
I think I like that better. I was looking for some thing that could be used when you where exploring some thing that you could throw up one night and grill the 3-4 pieces of meat you got that day. So, personally I was thinking 5 uses at most.
So maybe
or
your idea for the grill would take 1 coal, 1 stick, and 1 cobblestone. A full furnace would take 8 cobblestone, and 1 coal per 7 pieces of meat you wanted to cook. Since this would let you grill on the fly, and not waste any fuel, I'd say 3 pieces of meat should be adequate, 4 at most.
Someone in a different thread brought up the point that shields should obscure your view when equipped. I had assumed that point was obvious, but I'm going to add it to my descriptions in my original post for clarity.
I just got the idea for this while posting in another thread:
Light Arrow(x1): Crafting
[>>-i>]
By holding the Light Arrow and right clicking, it will be set as your primary ammunition. When fired from the bow, Light Arrows do no damage, but allow you to place torches at long distances, anywhere you can aim with the bow. Because of their extra weight, Light Arrows can only be fired half as far as normal arrows. If you fire an arrow at the underside of a block, it will place the torch, but since torches cannot be placed on the ceiling it will immediately fall off, dropping a torch that can be picked up into the inventory. Light Arrows cannot be recovered after firing them, they are destroyed in the process of placing the torch. To set your regular arrows back to you primary ammunition, simply select your regular arrows, and right click while holding them.
OP, excellent job identifying a real problem. However, I don't think hand tools are the real solution. Either they would be good enough that they would really reduce the usefulness of a crafting table, or they would be nerfed enough that nobody would bother making them, considering how easy crafting tables are to make. Your other ideas seem okay. I definitely agree that there need to be more things that can be made in your inventory (and with items that don't have to be mined).
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Quote from monkeedude »
Quote from Bearses »
do other stuff at night. you have to micro manage your different projects, and work on them when its appropriate.
that's part of the challenge of minecraft.
I think the hardest part is trying to quit and get to bed on time.
OP, excellent job identifying a real problem. However, I don't think hand tools are the real solution. Either they would be good enough that they would really reduce the usefulness of a crafting table, or they would be nerfed enough that nobody would bother making them, considering how easy crafting tables are to make. Your other ideas seem okay. I definitely agree that there need to be more things that can be made in your inventory (and with items that don't have to be mined).
That's what OP and I have gone through a hole bunch of this topic for.
I balance games for a living so what he's currently at is actually quite good.
I was assuming no durability loss per toss. If the knife (when thrown) uses durability then it'll be balanced at half power of a sword.
@Dynamite
with their new calculations it'd be:
6 Gunpowder, 18 Cloth, 3 Sticks, 1 String
9 Gunpowder, 27 Cloth, 1 string
against
5 Gunpowder 4 Sand
That weakens it to the point of hardly wanting to use it. Especially in the Fuse Bomb case.
Honestly I think your initial idea for Dynamite was fine.
then dynamite being used equivalent to TNT would require 6 gunpowder, 6 cloth, 3 stick, and 3 string
and the fuse bomb method would require 9 gunpowder, 9 cloth, and 3 string.
I've updated my original post to include the 1gunpowder+1cloth powderbomb, and the dynamite that can be created from it.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
That is fine by me :smile.gif: I would rather make the drawback bigger then nerf the advantage but that's more of my personal opinion.
One idea for knife throwing that I had while reading this was make knives "disappear" (like arrows) when they hit a target. This way you can balance the whole thing with a "die of a thousand cuts or use it once to put a really big whole in him" Yes? No? And if you miss you can pick it back up of course. Also, the player could make a choice lots of daggers that reward micro managing when throw but cost a lot to use i.e. one time use if thrown, or keep one/two daggers for more efficient but slower damage? This seem balanced to you all? Seems about right to me. I don't have numbers to go with this but that's the main idea.
Have a diamond for your idea.
No, it's one thing to do that when you can carry a stack of 64 arrows, but not when you can't stack them. At that point no one will ever throw a knife unless it's already about to break anyway.
My idea, of having it added to the loot the enemy will drop after dying, already gives you a chance of losing your knife if the enemy manages to run away or kill you before you kill it. Plus when you throw it, it's taking damage to its durability even if it misses the enemy. Plus the range is a LOT shorter than the bow or sling, probably only about 2 - 3 times the range of attacking melee with a sword, or half of the range of a sling (1/4 the range of a bow).
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
ok I missed that point. ya I like that idea better.
As I've said before, I hope others can try thinking of more useful recipes that can be done with just the 2x2 crafting grid.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Allows you to cook one pork with out needing a furnace. How would you balance this? Expensive and time consuming? Making mass production of grilled pork impractical to the point of being a non-issue? I think could be quite useful but not over powered.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Perhaps give it about 20 cook(s?), but you can't use it to smelt, only to cook food.
Hamumu.com, the site I should thank for helping me find minecraft.
Grill: Crafting
or
The Grill already has its own fuel that only is consumed during the actual cooking process, and is not wasted when the grill is left sitting or between changing meat over. Because of this it can cook a total of 10(8-14 range as balance dictates) pieces of meat, and does not require a pick to take down. The length of time required to cook each piece of meat is twice as long as when done in a furnace.
Whose idea is making use of gravel? Ianmac's version uses wood and coal, and mine uses cobblestone and torches (sticks + coal)
Or are you talking about the gravel can be crafted to make bullets for the sling idea?
Also, gravel isn't useless, as each block has a random chance of dropping flint, which is used for making arrows, and when it doesn't drop flint, it drops a gravel block, you can just keep placing and breaking the same gravel block until it gives you flint instead.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Small Shields: Crafting
[]
Small Shields are used and function in roughly the same manner as full Shields, but have roughly half the number of uses as their full counterpart. (
In the case of arrows, Small shields will only catch or absorb their damage if caught in the center of the screen.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Humbidy hummmmmm HUMMMMM. :tongue.gif:
Anyway, shields would be epic! :biggrin.gif: I hope notch makes them :ohmy.gif:
I think I like that better. I was looking for some thing that could be used when you where exploring some thing that you could throw up one night and grill the 3-4 pieces of meat you got that day. So, personally I was thinking 5 uses at most.
So maybe
or
Half the materials half the uses.
Also, shields would be really nice.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
Light Arrow(x1): Crafting
[>>-i>]
By holding the Light Arrow and right clicking, it will be set as your primary ammunition. When fired from the bow, Light Arrows do no damage, but allow you to place torches at long distances, anywhere you can aim with the bow. Because of their extra weight, Light Arrows can only be fired half as far as normal arrows. If you fire an arrow at the underside of a block, it will place the torch, but since torches cannot be placed on the ceiling it will immediately fall off, dropping a torch that can be picked up into the inventory. Light Arrows cannot be recovered after firing them, they are destroyed in the process of placing the torch. To set your regular arrows back to you primary ammunition, simply select your regular arrows, and right click while holding them.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
That's what OP and I have gone through a hole bunch of this topic for.
I balance games for a living so what he's currently at is actually quite good.