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Extended 2x2 Grid Crafting: Now Playable!
Poll: 2x2 Crafting is now a Mod. Is it time to close this thread?
2x2 Crafting is now a Mod. Is it time to close this thread? - Single Choice
- There's a Mod that lets me play with this stuff? WHERE?! 11.7%
- I don't care. 4.6%
- Yes. Seeing this huge thread constantly on the front page only makes me jealous. 1%
- Yes. I only wanted it as a mod anyway. 3.3%
- Yes. We can still support Notch adding all of this to Minecraft on the mod thread. 2.7%
- Just let it die out on its own. 4.4%
- No. Leave it so people who are just making suggestions can still come across it more easily. 4.7%
- No. Just because there's a thread in the modding section doesn't mean it's worth closing this one. 8.2%
- NO! This is still being suggested for Notch to add to Minecraft, so keep it here! 59.5%
You need the furnace to make iron, and you need iron to be able to mine the diamond, so both of these require the furnace, which can't be made without the workbench, putting you back at needing to go back to your workbench/furnace unless you brought one with you. Frankly, crafting hand tools isn't all THAT more convenient than simply carrying a furnace and workbench everywhere you go. The only reason I can personally think of for a diamond pick to be of particular use is if you broke your last iron or diamond pick while mining out some diamond ore, but there were still a couple more blocks left to mine, you'd have the option of just crafting two diamond with a stick (which I usually carry along with gunpowder in order to make torches(and directional Markers with flowers, if they ever get added) on the fly) in order to finish up, rather than having to trudge all the way back to base to get a new iron pickaxe.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
But by that logic why make tools when you can break any block with your hands? Sure, it's slower mining, but you didn't have to make a tool.
I, my self (I don't about the OP-ster), am arguing for diamond and iron hand tools simply so that it makes sense. You can make any tool out of wood/stone/iron/diamond so why cap hand tools at stone? If you say because it's over powered, well...then I simply disagree, because of the pre mentioned shortcomings of hand tools i.e. slower, less efficient in both ingredient use and in inventory space.
But really, isn't that what a balanced game is about? sometimes it's better, sometimes not, depending on what you're trying to do?
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
I'm certain neither of you have ever actively thought out balancing issues in a game environment.
That's what MY JOB is.
And I'd rather have no addition than an unbalanced addition. You guy just turned my vote from "okay, but..." to a flat out "no".
I don't know about the OTHERS that signed on under the same stipulation, but I'm almost certain it isn't going to go well.
Well, I agree with you that I would "rather have no addition than an unbalanced addition" and who's to say that something is balanced/un-balanced be for you even start testing it. You see issues with this idea. You look at it and see "unbalanced idea". Ok, great. It's my opinion that it's not unbalanced. We've given our reasons and you have given yours...so now what? We disagree on an idea that may/may not get in the game.
"I'm certain neither of you have ever actively thought out balancing issues in a game environment.
That's what MY JOB is." Is this even necessary? What does it achieve? Honest question?
Notch hired you?
Most of us are aware of balances, and so far I see that this tool set does appear to be balanced. You have on-hand tool, with the trade-off of inefficient use of resource and lower utility.
I would argue for 2 changes thou.
1. 2x2 tool is only 1/4 as durable as the 3x3 tool (your tool is crafted hastily, so is of lower quality).
2. Tool's utility takes double time (compared to equivalent tool) to destroy equivalent block.
Notch has not hired me, but it is my job.
Simple as that. We needed more crafting recipes for 2x2 grid anyway.
this gets my invisible stamp of approval
It effectively makes pointless Wood and Stone picks though.
But in early game terms, mining isn't going to be very extensive, and 9 uses out of Wood to get 9 Cobblestone to make 4 more cobblestone picks to get effectively 68 uses (77 total), is an incredibly quick use-gain.
You can make a substantial fort out of 68 Stone blocks as well.
The only assumed ingredient in this case has been 5 Sticks, which is 2 +2(wood pickax) Wood boxes, which is 1 wood block.
In terms of the "emergency" B brought up, this would satisfy it but the downside of having only ~250 of ~1000 possible uses makes using or even just carrying a 3x3 Pickax around a better idea. It'd effectively relegate the higher tier Picks (not PickAxes) to specific ore mining only.
And even assuming you dug straight down to Bedrock (and retained none of the blocks destroyed to get there), knowing you need a 2 block space to stand, and if you intend to go "straight up" you only place the next level jump in your immediate vicinity and don't break any other blocks, that makes 256 x2 blocks to get through assuming absolute worst case (bedrock to max build height) [based upon what I found from the wiki].
So having NO materials sans Wood (That should be a valid assumption, or else there'd be no point to arguing a 2x2) and assuming no Forge...
512 - 9 - x*17...
x = 30
So you need 30 +1(wood pick) Sticks to make enough picks to get out of AWC.
Rounding up to 32, we get 32 = 4*x (box to stick conversion)
x = 8 +2 (first wood pick)
and again the same equation for Box from Block...
You need a grand total of THREE Wood blocks to make it out of AWC assuming only that your route of 512 has atleast 60 Stone in it's way.
So using Fubar's levels take a wood block or two with you where ever you go, and you'll be able to "escape" no matter what.
I think I can sign back on under his stipulations.
(now having done the calculations on a WEAKER VERSION, do you see why I said yours is too good OP?)
To go back to the original idea
Which never really bothered me. I think the 2x2 crafting grid has its uses already, like being able to create torches on the fly, and being about to break down some basic materials like wood into its more abundant counterparts.
The way it is now that mining picks require the toolbench either forces you to bring the materials along for another toolbench when you're mining, or bring your toolbench with you, or head back. It's a nice factor that you tend to consider the farther out your mine goes. I usually would just head back but I've reached a point now where I keep a stack of wood on me just for this very idea.
Now, there is a point where eventually where I would run out of wood and I am forced to go back to the surface (or chest) to get some. A hand pick of cobblestone essentially doubles the distance I can go off of one supply of wood, for a relatively small penalty in time. When at extended distances - this becomes very valuable, it saves all the time of traveling back.
As such, the hand-pick seems to be a better late game item than an early game item - which kind of defeats the purpose of having to use a crafting table to progress.
Just my two cents.
Yeah you only NEED your hands to escape, but the purpose of the thread was to try and make 2x2 more useful.
You see my original objection, but the thread idea shouldn't be dismissed by saying "why use a pick when you have your hands?" Especially when the purpose isn't the Mining, but improving 2x2.
Sums it all up for me. Awesome suggestions!
MINECRAFT FACTS: BIG LIST OF WHAT NOTCH HAS ACTUALLY SAID ABOUT THE PLANNED FEATURES OF MINECRAFT
ok I found this graph when I was first looking through the FAQs, here is where I found it viewtopic.php?f=35&t=28299.
As the OP says any hand pick would have the speed of the pick-axe of the lower material i.e. a HAND axe has the speed of a PICK-axe. Plus a Hand-axe has half the uses of a full pick.
Here are the numbers
for a stone pick-axe 67.7 seconds for 65 blocks
for a wood pick-axe/stone hand-axe 116.35 seconds for 65 blocks (plus the time it takes to craft a second Hand-axe)
1.7x slower or 2/3 slower
As you can see a stone hand-axe has a significance time disadvantage. Now, with such a disadvantage why would you ever use one? You would use one for exploration, because you can stack the materials better i.e. you don't need a extra slot for your crafting table. Or you could use it for grabbing that last bit of coal/iron out of a mine that you don't want go back into with a fresh pick. Grab and go.
It has all ways been in video games that stationary objects are more powerful then movable ones. So, with that in mind look at a stone pick axe and a stone hand pick. A PA needs a crafting table, it is best used fore heavy duty mining and construction near your base. A HP only needs resources and a 2x2, it is best used for exploring and early game use too, not only speed up the first day, but to also get a new player on the right track for crafting.
For the higher tech uses of this item (Iron and diamond). I admit I could not really find a use for a iron HP but I did find one for the Diamond HP. I go cave diving a lot, so I tend to find a nice lava lake and run around it's edges finding plenty of nice ores. However, it tends to take me about 5-10 minutes to get back out to a my main mining base. So, this is what I would use a Diamond HP for. I've gone through all these caves and my iron PA is all most out. I find a nice patch of Diamonds and Red stone maybe some Iron (I have found caves like this be for). I go full bore into the Diamonds but my pick brakes, I now have two choices. A) Head back out and make a new PA and it takes 10-15 minutes round trip or :cool.gif: I can effectively waist some of my diamonds to get every thing I want and THEN head back up. This is something that I think should be up to the player.
As I said Pick-Axe for heavy duty mining, Hand Pick for light exploring work and emergencies/grab and go.
Lemme just point this out :ohmy.gif: ok i don't need a situation.
But who cares? No one would actually make one higher, unless it was for fun. Handheld Tools should not be limited.
I knew you didn't pay attention to my argument.
The ONLY thing you'd need to be practically cut off from the surface (sans wood), is to make a Furnace, and that's made ONLY out of Cobblestone, and that's in PLENTIFUL SUPPLY in any cave.
IT'S NOT ABOUT SPEED.
It's about the OP's suggestion obsoleting previous crafts.
You REALLY didn't read.
On a WEAKER version of the OP's suggestion you can see that you only need 3 wood blocks to be incredibly efficient.
Apparently your definition of "efficient" is "easy".