(I haven't read all the posts in this thread and I'm not going to so don't hate if some of this has already been said.)
1: I like the idea of having your spawn point changeable in some way besides hacking the game. (I liked the bed idea posted in the first page)
2: I agree that you would then need some incentive to go out and explore. I propose that the more precious materials (diamond, redstone, iron, etc.) are less likely to spawn closer to your initial spawn point, and even more likely to spawn the farther away you get. This would prompt players to explore outward more, since it might be the only way to find rarer materials.
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Minecraft is the meth of video games, try it once and you're hooked, and you'll stay up for 3 days when you're on it.
Yes, the Hell mechanic bieng introduced would be a good way of keeping your base near the portal, but the problem with that is that when you die, you still return to the same place. This really discourages exploration and makes the game a lot harder for the people that just want to keep moving, not settle down. A solution would be the bed example given earlier. This would allow for enhanced exploration range and semi-fix the problem of the immovable spawn point. The only problem with this is that if you like someplace for a base but it's too far from your spawn, It's a daily chore to go get items for a new disposable bed. Aside from this, the bed idea works just fine.
But there is one more scenario that would cause spawn point woe for players. What if you just wanted to be randomly placed in a new part of the same world to begin again? You would lose all items, but your spawn point would be placed in a new randomly generated peice of the world. To discourage players from using this as an escape method in a battle, there could be a 20 second timer to respawn at the new point. This could also give the game time to choose and load the new section of the world. You would also need to give the player an option to cancel the respawn and make sure he really wants to respawn and didn't just press the wrong button. A time limit would be set so that players could not click the respawn button again until say 3 ingame days after first pressing it. This would provide a quick easy way to explore more of the same world while still having the chance to stumble upon some familiar landmarks and maybe even find your old base to restock.
Yes, this is the crux of the problem with the Hell fast-travel mechanic:
1. What's the point of using it if you will just be spawned back to the very first spawn point?
2. Why is the land any better on the other side of a distant Hell portal, than the land in-between?
It's all randomly generated anyway, so what's the point of fast-travel? There may be something just as good or better 5 kilometers away, versus 20 kilometers away.
Also, for those people arguing that it would be bad to allow spawn-points deep underground, what about players who have a style of building their cities underground? It's not fair to assume that everyone simply wants to build cities on the surface. Some of us actually like to build vast Dwarven fortress under the earth, why should we assume that our subterranean homes will be dangerous at all?
I think setting up a bed should be a very tedious task. It's the only solution that I think will both help preventing bedspamming without making beds annoying.
What I mean by this, is that if you have a drowsiness effect which stops you from being able to fight for five minutes or so. Then how are you going to go recollect your stuff before it disappears? Your original spawn point may be 3 minutes from your stuff, but your bed is only 30 seconds away, yet if you use that, your unable to do anything for a greater length of time then if you used your regular spawn point.
Here are my preferred stats for a bed:
-Relatively cheap.
-If multiple are created you must manually set which one you want as a spawn point, you can only have one set as a spawn point at a time.
-After placing a bed it takes an entire in game day before you can set it as your spawn point.
-Beds cannot be picked up.
-Beds are not stackable.
I also thought of a brief idea that prevents beds being able to be set as spawn point if there is an enemy in direct contact, by that I mean not separated by anything to where the bed is. Walls, doors, etc will allow a bed to be set as an active spawn point. But that means unless you make a wall and door in your underground cavern you think has danger lurking, you won't be able to set a bed as a spawn point, and really all that may be down there is a single zombie who is far away from the entrance, but even he will stop you from making a spawn point.
I like the idea of having ONE mobile spawn point, and you have to break it (dropping no pieces) in order to be able to place it in a new location. This would allow people to move their spawn point, but still not be able to set it as they go. However I also think it should take an entire day after setting up a spawn point before it will actually work, so that it's inconvenient to set over and over again, even if you are carrying multiple spawn point generators.(beds or whatever the placeable object is that sets the new spawn point) During that day long period, you will wind up back at the initial spawn point if you die and at any difficulty level above easy, the spawn point will break if you die before it's finished setting up.
After reading several ideas of how beds should work, I've come up with a mix of several:
- Like a lot of people want, beds are unstackable, and disappear when broken.
- You can either respawn in a bed by dying, or sleep in a bed by right-clicking it (respawning isn't considered sleeping).
- There is no wait limit for using a bed after it's made, but a bed can't be placed while there is an enemy within 20 meters. (Maybe a wait limit on the hardest difficulty.)
- Beds take damage from and can be destroyed by mobs; if a mob is within 4 or 5 blocks of a bed (at night or in a cave), it will try to attack it.
- A bed can't be placed while another bed currently exists. If you want to place a new bed in a far away cave, you'll need to break your existing bed and trek (or portal) to the desired location to set the new one.
- You drop all held items when you respawn in a bed, same as with regular respawning. None of them automatically disappear when you die.
- You respawn in a bed with one heart. Now you have an incentive to eat breakfast!
- Sleeping in a bed restores all health, with time advancing by several hours or days. Possibly causes all torches to burn out (time is passing while you sleep, you know).
- Sleeping in a bed automatically makes all dropped items disappear. (Seriously, eat some breakfast. It's good for you.)
- Beds are 1 block high, 2 blocks long. Requires at least 2 blocks free on any of the sides, and 2 blocks above for respawn space.
- Beds are made from wool, feathers, and wood. Wood is interchangeable with other materials (iron, diamond, etc.), with the material affecting the durability of the bed. ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> Gives you 1 bed.
Using the above criteria, bed respawns are movable; don't allow for quickly throwing down in caves when mobs suddenly appear; have no ill effect on any of your items unless you choose to quickly restore your health immediately after respawning (stupid choice, really); and are made of easily acquirable materials, so they can be made on the first day. Since existing beds would need to be destroyed before placing new beds, you couldn't just spam beds in every cave you come across without returning to your base to break the old one. And it wouldn't be so easy to just place a bed in a cave when there could be an enemy around the corner; you'd need to secure the area first, and set up a wall around the potential bedding space. The dimensions of the bed itself don't have to be anything specific, except for the head space.
I believe all of these ideas would allow for a bed to exist in the game without being abusable or gamebreaking. That's only my opinion, so we'll just have to wait for Notch to implement whatever he's planning. (I'm really hoping for something similar to my idea, though. ;D) Thanks to everyone with ideas that inspired mine. Feel free to dissect what I put together. Come on bed!
I was a little sad my "wait a day" idea wasn't used, but your idea where you respawn with only 1 heart and all dropped items disappear if you sleep is honestly a much better alternative. 1 thing to add to that, not so much an extra rule, but just a note: creepers should be able to destroy your bed if they explode by it.
I think it should also be considered that the bed doesn't heal you completely in a single rest, and resting more than once without at least half a day between rests get less and less effective.
So the first time you rest will only heal 5 hearts, then the next time will only heal 2.5, then only 1.5, then only .5. This would help prevent constant resting as a way to hunt monsters with no risk of dying. If the player rests constantly to the point the bed is only healing half a heart, then they wait half a day, they'll get 1.5 hearts healed, and if they wait another half day before resting again, they'll get 2.5 hearts, but if they rest immediately after that, they'll be back down to only getting 1.5 healed. Of course, waiting for 2 days before resting would reset the healing amount all the way back to 5.
I was a little sad my "wait a day" idea wasn't used, but your idea where you respawn with only 1 heart and all dropped items disappear if you sleep is honestly a much better alternative. 1 thing to add to that, not so much an extra rule, but just a note: creepers should be able to destroy your bed if they explode by it.
I think it should also be considered that the bed doesn't heal you completely in a single rest, and resting more than once without at least half a day between rests get less and less effective.
So the first time you rest will only heal 5 hearts, then the next time will only heal 2.5, then only 1.5, then only .5. This would help prevent constant resting as a way to hunt monsters with no risk of dying. If the player rests constantly to the point the bed is only healing half a heart, then they wait half a day, they'll get 1.5 hearts healed, and if they wait another half day before resting again, they'll get 2.5 hearts, but if they rest immediately after that, they'll be back down to only getting 1.5 healed. Of course, waiting for 2 days before resting would reset the healing amount all the way back to 5.
The wait limit sounds like a great idea for extra hard mode, balanced in relation to the added difficulty, discouraging even more the use of quickly placing beds. Also, maybe beds aren't set as your respawn point until you've slept in them at least once. And about the creepers, they would destroy beds just like all mobs could, but their explosions affect beds no matter what material is separating them. Normally explosions wouldn't affect anything behind solid obsidian, but as long as a bed is in the radius of a creeper's explosion, it's completely destroyed regardless of the material used to make it (except perhaps for diamond).
As for the healing issue, maybe the healing rate would be affected by the difficulty level; less health the harder you're playing. Having to wait a day or more between sleeping in a bed to gain health is a good idea.
i totally agree that spawning points discourage esploring. also, dunno if it was mentioned but there might be problem with finding stuff if someone explored 'too much'. here we come back to compass improvements again...
Are you saying that having movable respawn locations would make people explore less? Because that's the opposite of what they would do for the players. Once you mine a certain amount of materials from a large radius of your spawn point, the distance you'll need to travel to get new material keeps increasing, to the point where dying affects your progress more and more. If your spawn point is fixed for the entire game, you're pretty much tied to that specific area for as long as you're playing that save. With movable respawn points, the player is able to explore a considerably larger amount of the map, without worrying about constantly being killed and losing everything, or the time it would take to travel all the way back to the area they died.
And I think Notch mentioned something about making maps.
Randomly moving spawn points would greatly improve the game, but I think something that would also help is allowing a player to carry a chest in his inventory, and when he dies instead of his items being thrown everywhere, it goes into the chest. This would provide incentive for exploration, and also not force the player to make a mad dash to their former location. You could go off in a random direction away from your fort, forget about your old items, spawn in a totally new place, start over or try to find your base again. You might rediscover your chest at a later date. The new chest would only open once and maybe it deletes a random number of items after the regular decay timer is up?
I also like the idea of the beds, but limited numbers of spawns is too silly a limitation. I think beds should instead have distances. In peaceful mode, you respawn in whatever bed is closest. In normal and hard mode, you also respawn in the closest bed, assuming it's within a certain distance to the player. Outside of that distance, the player would respawn somewhere randomly. This would provide a player-created space of "habitation" as long as it's well built and follows your cave systems. Other limitations to beds could be that they need to be lit and enclosed, but never in the same enclosure as other beds (allowing one bed per cave system) and possibly a layer restriction, requiring them to be placed above ground.
So I spent time thinking through the "craftable spawnpoint" idea myself, and came to the conclusion it was never going to be a seamless solution. Far too many additional suggestions in this thread are incremental fiddly things trying to prop up an idea that isn't fundamentally very good.
UberFubarius previously suggested making spawnpoints part of the environment instead, so I thought more about that idea.
This solution works. It sounds odd at first, but read it through.
Spawnflowers.
[truncated]
...That sounds way more complicated than anything else suggested in this thread. Beds really make the most sense, and Notch already said he was thinking about adding them. Your method would make it way too easy to manipulate respawn points. Also, wouldn't destroying all spawnflowers just revert your respawn to the default world spawning point, instead of crashing the game?
I saw respawn should random in a specific area around where you died. You will always respawn on the surface, on land, and at least 20 blocks away from any monster. This way spawns are directly relevant to where you die, and not anything else. If you die in the vicinity of a spawn anchor like a bed you spawn there instead of in a random area. Good enough? I prefer this.
Why would you need incentive to explore? Or should I say, MORE incentive. You are almost forced to. Essentially, if you box yourself in, in a well lit area, and don't do anything - you have stopped playing.
wow that was a real mean move
this is what I do, I make a box in the ground, and close up the hole so no mobs can get to me, and sit there, some times for hours, its quite fun actually, and I like it. I don't understand why you have to beat down on my game-play style...
Theoretically the player could destroy every spawnflower within the explored world, leaving the engine with no available spawnpoints to place the player at should they die. That's a recipe for an engine crash, or at least an unsalvageable game.
A simplest solution is simply have the current spawn-point as default.
If you decide to destroy EVERY available spawn-points, the engine simply re-spawn you back at where you enter the game in the first place (your original spawn).
I think there should be a different spawn point every time you die. it encourages exploration and such. i can just make a house over my spawn point and never have to deal with trying to get my stuff back.
Yes, it is prudent to mark your path out when you venture off into the unknown, but at the same time, we shouldn't have to spawn right back to the start spawn point.
What we need is the ability to create a "Bed" and when you "Sleep" in that bed, you are setting your new spawn point.
You'll still need to mark your way if you ever want to get back to previous spawn points, but at least you have some control over where your temporary base is.
Krush.
I disagree completely. I know it may be a hassle to get back to your "base" once you've died because everybody has one static spawn point. However, if I could choose to spawn in a bed in my house I would never be forced to leave. I could have a closed off, well-lit cave system and literally never deal with any mobs. Ever. That's not exactly survival.
What I suggest is some more incentive to explore. I don't know what just yet, exactly, but there needs to be something that lures players out of their safehouses. I think the NPC villages people are talking about will do this to some extent, but I would also like to see something else.
I'll think on that.
-Duba
You could also spawn, dig down three spaces, and the put dirt over your head and never die.
The fun is in the adventure, spawning in your house doesnt change that.
What I suggest is some more incentive to explore. I don't know what just yet, exactly, but there needs to be something that lures players out of their safehouses. I think the NPC villages people are talking about will do this to some extent, but I would also like to see something else.
Lanterns. Diamonds and gold. Hell. Crafting something other than picks and torches. Mining in general. The fact that they paid $14 for the game. Might as well explore what you paid for, otherwise you'll just be watching a dirt wall.
Changing spawn would be good. You could set you're spawn in a safe place, in your base, then take some basic kit and go roaming. THen you could compass back or die, and it wouldnt matter.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Minecraft - Bringing out the CDO - I mean OCD in everyone.
I think there should be a different spawn point every time you die. it encourages exploration and such. i can just make a house over my spawn point and never have to deal with trying to get my stuff back.
Well, the problem with that is that that method discourages *building*--if you're liable to lose not only your on-hand inventory but be likely to lose what you've already built due to having no clue where you are...that's frustrating. I know that some people who take the Iron Man Gamer approach and just start an entirely newly rendered world when they die, partly due to just that problem. I know in my own game I ended up cheating and using Cartographer to figure out where the blazes I was and how to get back to my initial constructs (I've since then both put markers from my spawn to that location, as well as building a central base *around* my spawn, which I've been working out of ever since).
Part of the problem that people who want the controllable spawn points are worried about is *distance*--it's easy enough to leave a trail of some sort as you explore outward so that you can get back to that location again if/when you die, but the further outward you range, the more likely you're going to not be able to get back to that location again in time before your items disappear. It's the 'rotting corpses' problem from MMOs, basically. The upcoming Hell Dimension doesn't help that much, because not only do you need to have an exit portal at your destination end, but getting between the portals is itself a hazard--getting there faster's not of much use if you just end up dying *again* on the way through.
1: I like the idea of having your spawn point changeable in some way besides hacking the game. (I liked the bed idea posted in the first page)
2: I agree that you would then need some incentive to go out and explore. I propose that the more precious materials (diamond, redstone, iron, etc.) are less likely to spawn closer to your initial spawn point, and even more likely to spawn the farther away you get. This would prompt players to explore outward more, since it might be the only way to find rarer materials.
Minecraft is the meth of video games, try it once and you're hooked, and you'll stay up for 3 days when you're on it.
But there is one more scenario that would cause spawn point woe for players. What if you just wanted to be randomly placed in a new part of the same world to begin again? You would lose all items, but your spawn point would be placed in a new randomly generated peice of the world. To discourage players from using this as an escape method in a battle, there could be a 20 second timer to respawn at the new point. This could also give the game time to choose and load the new section of the world. You would also need to give the player an option to cancel the respawn and make sure he really wants to respawn and didn't just press the wrong button. A time limit would be set so that players could not click the respawn button again until say 3 ingame days after first pressing it. This would provide a quick easy way to explore more of the same world while still having the chance to stumble upon some familiar landmarks and maybe even find your old base to restock.
1. What's the point of using it if you will just be spawned back to the very first spawn point?
2. Why is the land any better on the other side of a distant Hell portal, than the land in-between?
It's all randomly generated anyway, so what's the point of fast-travel? There may be something just as good or better 5 kilometers away, versus 20 kilometers away.
Also, for those people arguing that it would be bad to allow spawn-points deep underground, what about players who have a style of building their cities underground? It's not fair to assume that everyone simply wants to build cities on the surface. Some of us actually like to build vast Dwarven fortress under the earth, why should we assume that our subterranean homes will be dangerous at all?
What I mean by this, is that if you have a drowsiness effect which stops you from being able to fight for five minutes or so. Then how are you going to go recollect your stuff before it disappears? Your original spawn point may be 3 minutes from your stuff, but your bed is only 30 seconds away, yet if you use that, your unable to do anything for a greater length of time then if you used your regular spawn point.
Here are my preferred stats for a bed:
-Relatively cheap.
-If multiple are created you must manually set which one you want as a spawn point, you can only have one set as a spawn point at a time.
-After placing a bed it takes an entire in game day before you can set it as your spawn point.
-Beds cannot be picked up.
-Beds are not stackable.
I also thought of a brief idea that prevents beds being able to be set as spawn point if there is an enemy in direct contact, by that I mean not separated by anything to where the bed is. Walls, doors, etc will allow a bed to be set as an active spawn point. But that means unless you make a wall and door in your underground cavern you think has danger lurking, you won't be able to set a bed as a spawn point, and really all that may be down there is a single zombie who is far away from the entrance, but even he will stop you from making a spawn point.
Just some thoughts.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
- Like a lot of people want, beds are unstackable, and disappear when broken.
- You can either respawn in a bed by dying, or sleep in a bed by right-clicking it (respawning isn't considered sleeping).
- There is no wait limit for using a bed after it's made, but a bed can't be placed while there is an enemy within 20 meters. (Maybe a wait limit on the hardest difficulty.)
- Beds take damage from and can be destroyed by mobs; if a mob is within 4 or 5 blocks of a bed (at night or in a cave), it will try to attack it.
- A bed can't be placed while another bed currently exists. If you want to place a new bed in a far away cave, you'll need to break your existing bed and trek (or portal) to the desired location to set the new one.
- You drop all held items when you respawn in a bed, same as with regular respawning. None of them automatically disappear when you die.
- You respawn in a bed with one heart. Now you have an incentive to eat breakfast!
- Sleeping in a bed restores all health, with time advancing by several hours or days. Possibly causes all torches to burn out (time is passing while you sleep, you know).
- Sleeping in a bed automatically makes all dropped items disappear. (Seriously, eat some breakfast. It's good for you.)
- Beds are 1 block high, 2 blocks long. Requires at least 2 blocks free on any of the sides, and 2 blocks above for respawn space.
- Beds are made from wool, feathers, and wood. Wood is interchangeable with other materials (iron, diamond, etc.), with the material affecting the durability of the bed.
Using the above criteria, bed respawns are movable; don't allow for quickly throwing down in caves when mobs suddenly appear; have no ill effect on any of your items unless you choose to quickly restore your health immediately after respawning (stupid choice, really); and are made of easily acquirable materials, so they can be made on the first day. Since existing beds would need to be destroyed before placing new beds, you couldn't just spam beds in every cave you come across without returning to your base to break the old one. And it wouldn't be so easy to just place a bed in a cave when there could be an enemy around the corner; you'd need to secure the area first, and set up a wall around the potential bedding space. The dimensions of the bed itself don't have to be anything specific, except for the head space.
I believe all of these ideas would allow for a bed to exist in the game without being abusable or gamebreaking. That's only my opinion, so we'll just have to wait for Notch to implement whatever he's planning. (I'm really hoping for something similar to my idea, though. ;D) Thanks to everyone with ideas that inspired mine. Feel free to dissect what I put together. Come on bed!
I think it should also be considered that the bed doesn't heal you completely in a single rest, and resting more than once without at least half a day between rests get less and less effective.
So the first time you rest will only heal 5 hearts, then the next time will only heal 2.5, then only 1.5, then only .5. This would help prevent constant resting as a way to hunt monsters with no risk of dying. If the player rests constantly to the point the bed is only healing half a heart, then they wait half a day, they'll get 1.5 hearts healed, and if they wait another half day before resting again, they'll get 2.5 hearts, but if they rest immediately after that, they'll be back down to only getting 1.5 healed. Of course, waiting for 2 days before resting would reset the healing amount all the way back to 5.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
The wait limit sounds like a great idea for extra hard mode, balanced in relation to the added difficulty, discouraging even more the use of quickly placing beds. Also, maybe beds aren't set as your respawn point until you've slept in them at least once. And about the creepers, they would destroy beds just like all mobs could, but their explosions affect beds no matter what material is separating them. Normally explosions wouldn't affect anything behind solid obsidian, but as long as a bed is in the radius of a creeper's explosion, it's completely destroyed regardless of the material used to make it (except perhaps for diamond).
As for the healing issue, maybe the healing rate would be affected by the difficulty level; less health the harder you're playing. Having to wait a day or more between sleeping in a bed to gain health is a good idea.
Are you saying that having movable respawn locations would make people explore less? Because that's the opposite of what they would do for the players. Once you mine a certain amount of materials from a large radius of your spawn point, the distance you'll need to travel to get new material keeps increasing, to the point where dying affects your progress more and more. If your spawn point is fixed for the entire game, you're pretty much tied to that specific area for as long as you're playing that save. With movable respawn points, the player is able to explore a considerably larger amount of the map, without worrying about constantly being killed and losing everything, or the time it would take to travel all the way back to the area they died.
And I think Notch mentioned something about making maps.
I also like the idea of the beds, but limited numbers of spawns is too silly a limitation. I think beds should instead have distances. In peaceful mode, you respawn in whatever bed is closest. In normal and hard mode, you also respawn in the closest bed, assuming it's within a certain distance to the player. Outside of that distance, the player would respawn somewhere randomly. This would provide a player-created space of "habitation" as long as it's well built and follows your cave systems. Other limitations to beds could be that they need to be lit and enclosed, but never in the same enclosure as other beds (allowing one bed per cave system) and possibly a layer restriction, requiring them to be placed above ground.
Redcraft Mod: Redstone Blueprints
...That sounds way more complicated than anything else suggested in this thread. Beds really make the most sense, and Notch already said he was thinking about adding them. Your method would make it way too easy to manipulate respawn points. Also, wouldn't destroying all spawnflowers just revert your respawn to the default world spawning point, instead of crashing the game?
Monster Ideas: Poltergeist and Shadow
Dynamic Water
Scaffolding Blocks
Bone Block for the Nether
wow that was a real mean move
this is what I do, I make a box in the ground, and close up the hole so no mobs can get to me, and sit there, some times for hours, its quite fun actually, and I like it. I don't understand why you have to beat down on my game-play style...
A simplest solution is simply have the current spawn-point as default.
If you decide to destroy EVERY available spawn-points, the engine simply re-spawn you back at where you enter the game in the first place (your original spawn).
You could also spawn, dig down three spaces, and the put dirt over your head and never die.
The fun is in the adventure, spawning in your house doesnt change that.
Lanterns. Diamonds and gold. Hell. Crafting something other than picks and torches. Mining in general. The fact that they paid $14 for the game. Might as well explore what you paid for, otherwise you'll just be watching a dirt wall.
Well, the problem with that is that that method discourages *building*--if you're liable to lose not only your on-hand inventory but be likely to lose what you've already built due to having no clue where you are...that's frustrating. I know that some people who take the Iron Man Gamer approach and just start an entirely newly rendered world when they die, partly due to just that problem. I know in my own game I ended up cheating and using Cartographer to figure out where the blazes I was and how to get back to my initial constructs (I've since then both put markers from my spawn to that location, as well as building a central base *around* my spawn, which I've been working out of ever since).
Part of the problem that people who want the controllable spawn points are worried about is *distance*--it's easy enough to leave a trail of some sort as you explore outward so that you can get back to that location again if/when you die, but the further outward you range, the more likely you're going to not be able to get back to that location again in time before your items disappear. It's the 'rotting corpses' problem from MMOs, basically. The upcoming Hell Dimension doesn't help that much, because not only do you need to have an exit portal at your destination end, but getting between the portals is itself a hazard--getting there faster's not of much use if you just end up dying *again* on the way through.