You are clinging to trying to maintain the current state of the game through this shift, and that is not necessary.
Exactly and i respectfully disagree. Exploring should not be made too easy imho.
Then why have a world 1.8x the size of earth if you can't explore it? This doesn't make exploring easy, it makes it feasible. Currently, you are almost better off starting a new map if you die when exploring, because that way you get to see new terrain and you have an entire day to work with. Finding a cool place to settle is meaningless if any tiny mistake leads to you losing everything. Except for the very small percentage of people who actually consider 1 death/map to be a reasonable play strategy, exploration is pointless, unless you only want to observe the terrain.
And clinging to the current state of the game is silly. It is alpha. It is implicit that it will change. There are numerous points about the game that don't work(the ability to have a closed system and be completely safe from mobs, for one), and planned changes to correct those. The in feasibility of exploring the giant map is one of those flaws. Esp. once biomes come into play. Finding an interesting biome and working on it, then eventually moving on to a new one is a logical play style in that paradigm. Having to restart at spawn, lose everything with no chance of recovery, and start out again does not work with that strategy. Placing spawns needs to be a feasible solution.
In fact, your proposed "balance" on spawns is probably one of the most disruptive suggestions I've seen on this thread. It does absolutely nothing to discourage placing spawns where you think you are likely to die, and does little to prevent you from spawning in your base, except making it less immersive. I can think of several ways to spawn in your base without having mobs attack. If you do not utilize one of those, you make the game much more annoying. You are now spawning and having to deal with mobs immediately. This makes your re-death rate higher. Dying directly after respawning is simply annoying. There is no penalty, just a dirty move that hits you while you are unprepared.
The time directly after you spawn is the worst time for there to be danger. You are unprepared, so everything is more dangerous. You have nothing, so dying has no penalty. All that happens is you slow down the person from getting back in the game. Its also a cheap move. Getting killed directly after spawning is not fun. It is not good gameplay. Trying to prevent people from putting their spawn in their base is the opposite of what we need to do; putting your spawn in your base should be encouraged. The person who built his base 5 blocks from spawn? He should be able to put his spawn inside his base just as much as the person who traveled 5 kilometers then built a base. Allow the post-death vulnerability to be removed; it is not needed. The time period at which risk occurs should be pre-death, not post-death. You should be facing the danger before you die(which is why you die at that time) and respawn and get a new start. Not be in a safe state, fall into lava, and have to deal with mobs until you can run past all the skeletons to your base.
You need to realize what you are trying to defend. You are defending the spawn point outside of your base. This does not need defending, for the reasons listed above. furthermore, it exacerbates the problem. Instead of spawning and dealing with random mobs, you are ensuring danger is near, and the player is unarmed.
Seriously, give me 1 reason why you shouldn't spawn in your base.
You are clinging to trying to maintain the current state of the game through this shift, and that is not necessary.
Exactly and i respectfully disagree. Exploring should not be made too easy imho.
I would agree with you completely, IscopeU....IF the the Minecraft world was a finite one maybe a few klicks wide by a few long. But the Minecraft world is VAST and soon Notch is going to add a great many things to make the landscape vary considerably over a distance.
Exploring even a kilometer or two from your base with a single set starting point is extremely difficult. Exploring any further than that: utterly impossible. There would be absolutely no point. It would be next to impossible to find where you had been, espcially if that is underground. And I'm not talking about your ability to recover your lost goods, but just to get back to where you were for any reason. If you have a base out there for any reason, the tedium of attempting to return to it grows exponentially with the distance from your spawn point. You could make a path, but the temporal and material costs of doing so would become insurmountable. And for what? A few lumps of coal? An ingot of iron? A diamond? I think not! For all that effort I'll just build a 1,000 x 1,000 x 64 strip mine and get every last block of everything right where I am. At least if I die I'm within reasonable walking distance of my great chasm.
I think Mystify has made the best arguments thus far. Lower the countdown-timer on dropped items, maybe have a percent chance of a few of your items isnta-vanish, maybe even throw in a less-than-full respawn health, and you've effectively balanced the bed spamming problem. If a player want's to drop a bed when they fear a nearing engagement, let them. That is a form of preparation. Do you think soldiers IRL camp a million miles from where they plan to engage their enemies? No, they don't. They camp as near as they can so they are as rested as possible for the fight ahead.
We don't need an overly complex mechanic to solve this issue. Simplicity is the key.
Don't read it. Everything there has been said in this thread, and after reading this, I see the flaws. Bedspamming never occurred to me before.
But maybe this will help balance the idea.
First, the spawner must be expensive. My idea was 8 gold blocks and 1 redstone.
Why? It encourages a player to set up near their original spawn point AT THE START. This gives them more or less a basic idea of what to expect from the game before they go out exploring for days.
However I won't object to a cheap spawner, I just feel that it should be something that has to be earned through a LOT of trial and error.
Will it discourage players that just want to head out and explore off the bat? ... Yeah. Probably. But perhaps not. (Warning: The next paragraph describes a mode of play. Feel free to skip.)
However I'm currently playing a mode where I explore as far as I can overworld, and set up a small base out of wood for nighttime. The idea is to spend no more than 3 days at a single base. I usually spend one day getting there and another day fixing up the place. Leave the next day with only the barest supplies and repeat. Simple, but you cover a lot of ground this way. Since I keep only a few supplies on me and leave the rest in the rest stops, I don't feel like I've lost that much, and can either try to find my way back to my rest stops or just head off in a new direction. Simple, but a little neat. It fulfills my exploration desire that I couldn't fulfill by mining a massive underground network next to my base. ... Although that was cool too.
Sorry for that, got off topic.
Here's my proposal: A placeable and retrievable spawner that has infinite uses.
Here's the catch: you don't spawn where you place it. Instead you spawn above ground, and a variable horizontal distance from where you placed the spawner (I'm thinking greater than 50 blocks, but less than 200, direction variable), using more or less the same coding as current spawn points. From here on out, this is your new spawn point until you retrieve your spawner (nulling your new point) and place it again (creating a newer one).
Right away this eliminates the threat of bedspamming, yet allows for a fixed point so you have a reliable spawner to set up a new base if you want to stay in the area for exploration purposes. It has all the annoyances that come with the default spawn point, so death is still a threat. The key point is that it will allow for cross-continental exploration with less of a penalty than returning to square (block?) 1.
Extra ideas:
a) This overrides your default spawner, provided it is the CLOSEST. If you stray too far towards your original location, then you spawn at block 1 again. This also allows for multiple spawn points to be made, with potentially multiple bases at each one, while not breaking the game.
:cool.gif: If spawners are placed too close together (I'm thinking within a 256 radius, but this can change), then your spawn location doesn't change, and the spawner is null, and remains null unless it is picked back up and placed outside the radius of a spawner/spawn point (Prevents stacking spawn points in multiplayer, more on that in a minute). Perhaps the spawner could glow when active as an indicator.
c) Multiplayer, particularly future PvP.
Note: For PvP, I just think of it as regular Survival, except you can attack and damage other players as you would mobs.
If you and a group set up a base, it could be miles from your original spawn point. Placing a spawner in the base will help keep you close to home in case of a attack by the opposition. Needless to say, this makes spawners the primary objectives when trying to capture a base, and thus they must be well hidden and well protected. If you went to a lives system, you could start without a default spawn point and ONLY have portable spawners, and make them uncraftable. Thus, if all your spawners are claimed by the opposition, you cannot respawn until your spawner is retrieved and placed. If all your spawners are destroyed by time, lava, etc, GAME OVER. (Seems like an interesting concept, feel free to expand on it or debug. Just came up with it now.)
Hmm.... I think that's it. Feedback is much appreciated!
I really just don't like the idea of an expensive spawner. At all. I want the spawner (I'm just gonna go back to saying bed, since as far as I know that's the most likely thing for it to be) to be a staple of any place where you set-up shop so to speak. Just like your craft table, furnace, and large chest, you've got a bed to rest up in and return to when you die. I think limiting the bed (even so far as my original suggestion of extra inventory consumption) is just plain bad. I'm not sure I even care that much whether a bed is retrievable when destroyed or not (although I'd still lean towards not retrievable).
This whole discussion has been pretty great, and the more it goes on, the more I'm realizing that the spawner alone can't solve the issue. The percentage drop rate is a great suggestion. I still think starting on the bed with only 1 heart or limited health could work, but beds can then restore your health over time. (Yes you could set up a bed just before a big fight, but you could just as easily eat meat. And if you have enemies chasing you the recovery of hearts on a bed will be too slow to save you)
But the main point is. I DO NOT want the bed to be difficult to make. I'm not even sure I like the wait time on building as much any more. It should be a normally crafted item, just like work benches, furnaces, and storage chests. If someone wants to set up a base right near a danger zone then so be it. Yes they could be right near where they died, but with losing some of their items already as unreclaimable (only a percentage of items drop, the rest are gone), and having only 1 heart to start with you'll still have to weigh risk vs reward on getting your stuff back. Do you care about the dropped items enough to risk it, or should you just wait a bit and recover health? If items dropped were to disappear on the next death (you die, drop items, die again, those items are all gone, with whatever you had on you dropped now instead) then this would even further prevent simply bed spamming (although you could make a mad rush to pick the items up before dying, but then you lose more to percentage drop and you've made no real progress).
Also I'm fine with the drop timer being tied to spawn proximity (closer you are, the less time you have to reclaim your items) or to simply keep a fixed timer but shorten it.
Also for the actual crafting of the bed, one of the core aspects of this game is that the crafting just makes sense. You might not be able to figure out how to craft everything just by instinct or anything, but once you have crafted something it's pretty easy to remember it, because you can link the pieces together in your head (sticks make the handle, then the larger material makes the head in the shape of the tool) Gold and diamonds and redstone and all that is just weird for a bed. You can make it into a different spawner besides a bed of course, but then you're getting more abstract. I just really like the idea of a "bed." A safe-haven. Something you can return to and feel comforted. It just fits too well.
Simple, still requires you to collect some materials, but it's a light enough requirement that you can make it on day one. And I really do think it makes sense as far as recognizing it as a bed.
Also as an off-topic but slightly on-topic point. Monsters currently seem to all despawn on player death. This really seems like it should be changed, or at least that monsters can begin respawning more quickly after the player spawns. Otherwise looting a dungeon really will be far too simple with beds. (It already seems pretty simple if the dungeon is near enough to your spawn point anyways)
The street goes both ways, my friend. The argument of "MY gameplay style is just as important is yours, so the developer(s) should add anything I want into the game that I think benefits MY gameplay style. You just dislike my ideas because they don't benefit your gameplay style" is so weak that, honestly, it makes me a little angry. Allowing people to spawn wherever they wish will only make this game easier. Which, as you can read from my quote, is completely against the original design intent.
Lets try to find a reasonable way to implement this into the game. Lets try to avoid the "But, but, but it's MY playstyle!" arguments if we could.
-Duba
That's actually I meant to say. I was half asleep at the time and it was close to 2:30am :tongue.gif:
A happy medium is vital if the game is to flourish. Yes, too much flexibility on this issue will make dying merely an inconvenience, as a opposed to a real pain (which is what it should be). Currently I think the balance is *too* far towards the "real pain" side of things. Attaching the right strings to flexible spawn points is the best way to go (such as making it something the user has to make from different components, or possibly giving a very limited number of flexible spawn points every, say 2 hours of real game time).
I'll try to frame my opinions and arguments better in the future, when I'm not falling asleep at the keyboard. :tongue.gif:
Duba's justification is ridiculous and contradictory.
1.
Forcing people to be in "danger" isn't making the game any funner.
And you're assuming its night.
So people are forced into a fight right?
Naked, they'll either run or die/repeat. That's not a good idea for game design. Chum.
During the day its just one big ass walk back to find your base.
2.
Build base around spawn.
Oh look I just did that thing you didn't want me to do, lock myself away from everything.
Oh noes your plan was foiled by my slighter higher IQ, of 25.
3.
In alot of your posts your arguing on why the bed idea "ruins" exploring.
Wtf are you high? The incentive to explore unrestricted was the whole idea of the suggestion.
Majority of people build a base right near their spawn point simply because exploring will get you lost and you'll lose everything.
Again, you High?
4.
You're assuming the "Bed" idea is abusable, carrying it with you wherever you go.
[sarcasm]Incredibly Innovative Suggestion: [/sarcasm]
Make beds via construction only, un-placable in your inventory, and buildable within 50 sqm of a dungeon.
Now you can't Bed in a fight or abuse it near dangerous situations**
You may argue "People messing with spawns via lava or obsidian or whatnot"
That can be done already in-game with normal spawns, so that's not a problem with the bed suggestion.It's a general game design flaw that needs to and will be addressed before the game goes global.
Again, I foiled your inane ideals and with my slighter higher IQ of 25.
Keep it up Dubas! If you keep at it, one day you'll reach my level of intelligence one day too!
**To a certain extent, there's certain people that will abuse anything and everything in anyway they can. That's just life. Doesn't affect your gameplay. Just makes the abusers look like idiots.
I'm pretty sure Duba is FOR a placeable spawn point as long as there's restrictions to keep it from being abused.
It would be fantastic for exploring the wide-open Minecraft world, but just tossing it down like a torch whenever there's danger (it doesn't need to be just a dungeon, it can be any monster while you're just spelunking) kind of takes away from said danger. A placeable spawn thrown into the game without any thought behind what its limits should be would mean that before death someone could toss down a bed. Now they spawn in the same spot with full health and can quickly grab all of their loot. Death has just lost its sting. (The exception being lava. That would still sting)
THAT is what Duba has been arguing against. Placeable spawn points with no limits that, as a result, cheapens death.
Or at least that's what I got from his contributions to the discussion. (I guess I shouldn't really speak for other people though. )
But as I said above, with reading this whole discussion I'm really thinking that the limits of the spawn point alone can't fix the issue, but also what happens both upon death and when the player spawns should be revised as well.
But not leaving is no fun. And mobs spawn in the dark. And you can close off your mine anyway.
Yes, but the point is that if I could choose where to spawn I could literally set up a situation where I could do everything there is to do in the game without ever needing to see or deal with a mob. Even on hard.
The way it is now, at least if you die you have to deal with the possibility of them until you get back to your safehouse. I stick to my remark that we need more to entice players into leaving the safety of their homes for the prospect of greater treasure.
Only if we get to a point where it's more rewarding to spend your time away from your home and out exploring will I support this change. It just seems to belittle the one truly difficult thing is this game.
-Duba
Your statements does not make sense.
Your saying if you've been given the option to bore the hell out of yourself in your safe haven, that you're willing to do so? Nobody said that if you have a spawn point that your gonna camp it, that's boring and you gain NOTHING out of it.
Bed and spawns work because in multiplayer, the early bird gets the worm, and by worm I mean resources.
Wow, well, I get back from going out to breakfast with friends (which was great, by the way) to see I a few fans. :ohmy.gif:
[serious]Alright, I'm not even going to really give an honest response to the IQ guy. If you really think I'm that stupid, why did you go through all the time to respond to my obviously flawed ideals? Just ignore me. The reason my ideas change is because I'm not bull-headed. If somebody has a better point than mine, I change my viewpoint a little to include what they have said. If you don't allow people to have an affect on the way you think, why are you on a public forum?
Also:
Quote from dra6o0n »
Your statements does not make sense.
That was from the start of the thread, and my arguments against the bed at that point were extremely weak. I'll admit that, and it's why I have such switched somewhat to the side of wanting to have it implemented. I'm just being careful with how it should be implemented. Please, try to be nice.
Quote from SirDude »
duba (your on your way to becoming a annoying old guard type former)
I will take that as a compliment, good sir! However, I'm thinking of deleting that post. It seems to be hindering the actual discussion at this point.[/serious]
Actual useful post starts here
Currently, this is what I feel is the best way to implement the respawn bed into the game (you guys have come up with some great ideas!):
Make it so that you can place the bed anywhere, spawn on it an infinite amount of times, and make it cheap. However, you will only spawn with 1 heart while using it, which encourages people to keep it in their base. I would like to add the possibility of making it so that if you're within a 3 square-radius around the bed (on any plane) you'll slowly start to gain hearts back. However, if you take damage you will no longer gain hearts back from the bed until you respawn from it again, which stops people from gaining all but 1 heart from full life, going off and fighting, and coming back to use it as a 'free' heal. The time at which you gain hearts back is still very up to discussion, though.
Thanks to all of you for keeping this thread alive while I was asleep :biggrin.gif:
-Duba
Edit:
Quote from The_Juggernaut »
That's actually I meant to say. I was half asleep at the time and it was close to 2:30am :tongue.gif:
No worries buddy, sorry to be a little sharp with you. :smile.gif:
I'm going to ask: why does the respawner need to be cheap?
There shouldn't be a requirement that you need to build on or near your original spawn. Ever. If I don't like the area I'm in at the start I want the option to keep searching until I do find a place I like. Going further one of the basic essentials after making tools is finding coal. You won't always have coal within view of your start point. And if I have to go far out into the wilderness to find some coal, chances are I won't have carefully marked my path. Which means it's entirely possible that I'm now disoriented and don't even know what direction my spawn is in. And if I'm this far out, I'll want to set up camp out where I found the coal, since the long travel has eaten half the day.
A few in-game days have passed, I've built up a nice fort and found some iron, but haven't had the chance to do any in-depth mining. I walk out to get some wood and boom, creeper explodes.
Now I'm back at the start and I have no idea where my fort is. If I started in-land it's possible my fort could be in any direction (I didn't just walk forward when I started before, I went exploring. Again, my exploration route wasn't marked since I was A: Just starting out, and B: Was trying to get some coal and shelter before nightfall.)
So I've basically lost everything and have to start again.
This is why I want the spawner to be cheap. It should be a staple of any base, and should be craftable on the very first day. I shouldn't have to worry about limiting the number of spawners I can make and it shouldn't be a luxury item. Making spawners limited like that will also hinder exploration and make exploration into a special occasion. I don't want exploration to be something I have to work towards achieving. If I want to explore I want to explore without worrying about the game screwing me over and losing all of that exploration!
As I've begun saying, placeable spawners by themselves would not be the issue. It's the spawn mechanic in general that could do with some tweaking. I know my original suggestion was another way to limit spawner crafting, but I've changed my mind. I don't WANT spawners to be limited. I want the spawn mechanic to be changed so that death is unwelcomed in general but without having to worry about losing your entire base or area of exploration. That's not as fun to me. The current mechanic of spawning with full health and being able to retrieve all dropped items, but forcing the player to re-navigate their entire trek over the course of the game back to their death spot is not good. I don't like it. I've been here, done this, I don't need to do it again over and over just because I die.
So make beds easy enough to make that you can have one on the first day.
Change to only a percentage of items dropped on death, the rest gone. And spawn with only 1 heart or half health or something to that effect instead of full health, but make beds recover hearts slowly over time. (Again, risk vs. reward. Start going right away with less health, or wait around and recover it)
And I'm not sure I like recovery stopping when you're hit. I think the recovery time should just be long enough that it won't do much to save you while being hit or chased. Yes you can run back to the bed to heal while in a safe-room, but it'll take time. You could just as easily carry meat with you and be good to go instantly.
As far as I can tell this would likely work and would be the least intrusive on the player in general. I like this idea and until I hear other ideas that catch my interest it's the one I'll stick by (although it's obviously not fully fleshed out and could use tweaking, but the idea in general seems to be the most sound to me at this point).
[EDIT] Just want to point out I'm not really trying to undermine synapseshock's suggestion or say that the expensive spawner suggestions are inherently bad in any way. It's just not the way I personally would like to see it go in.
There are a lot of variables that could affect game balance and make it too easy or less enjoyable. It's not really possible to take all of these variables into account until we have something implemented into the game that we can judge in respect to how it actually works within the game. Until it's in the game all we can really do is speculate, so I'm not saying I'm right, you're wrong, my way or the highway or anything like that. This is just my speculation on what I think at the moment is what I would like for the game. It's not a simple right or wrong "Spawners should be this."
Just wanted that said so nobody thinks I'm attacking them or trying to just shoot their suggestions down with this.
Hmm.... Going to run through some of the ideas here. Will try to cover them all.
It seems that spawning exactly where you place your spawner is favored, so I'm going to work under that assumption.
The purpose of this is to evaluate some of various options to making a portable spawn point.
The goal is to make a portable spawner that encourages exploration, while still giving harsh penalties for death.
Cheap or Expensive?
Cheap
Pros
A cheap spawner has the advantage of being set up early in the game, likely by the end of day 1. This allows for long distance exploring right off the bat, which will likely prove useful if a player spawns somewhere they don't want, especially once things like biomes are introduced, or monster villages, etc.
A cheap spawner makes a more believable bed, as well. Design can be argued over, but it seems that a bed is favored.
Cons
A cheap spawner has increased potential for bedspamming, depending on the exact way it operates.
Expensive
Pros
Encourages player to stay in one place and build close to their spawn point at the start. This can be useful for new players, assuming that the current rules stay the same for default spawn points.
There is a greater sense of reward when one is made.
Bedspamming is discouraged, especially if a spawner cannot be picked up again.
Cons
Veteran players will feel this is a waste of time when they want to head out exploring. It may not take long when compared to a new player, but it will take at least 3 game days (probably more, this is a very conservative guess) to make a spawner.
Looking at this, I favor the cheap spawner, but I like exploring the overworld, so I'm biased. I'd be happy with either cheap or expensive.
Mechanics
Retreivable
Pros
Makes placing the spawner incorrectly without penalty, especially if you want to remodel the area or just made a mistake placing it. Note that this is not as essential with a cheap spawner.
Cons
Encourages bedspamming, as you can pick up and go after the encounter is finished. Doubly so if it is an expensive spawner.
Recovers Health Gradually, but spawning greatly reduces health.
Pros
Highly discourages bedspamming, as starting with low health makes you an easy target, especially without armor or weapons.
Cons
Pretty harsh if you leave this in your base and have to run to the caves. Unless you stock bread and meat beside your bed, along with at least a sword, you won't be able to venture out to get your stuff back until you've recovered your health, but by then your items could be gone.
Mobs Attacking Spawner
Pros
Highly discourages bedspamming or leaving a bed outside, as mobs will attack and destroy it, and will move towards it as they would you, meaning you could respawn surrounded by mobs.
Cons
With Notch planing to make torches finite later on, it is possible that mobs could appear in your base and destroy your spawner before you can replace the torches.
If combines with low health at respawn, this could get you stuck i a loop of death, which while funny for the rest of us, would prove beyond annoying for the victim.
Potential coding nightmare for Notch. Mobs don't attack blocks, and they have to be able to see the player before they become aggressive. Mobs also dont' spawn anywhere besides near players, and despawn when a player moves too far away to save on processing speed. With multiple spawn points across the map, this could wreak havoc on processing speed.
In general I'm against this idea, and would prefer to see an alternative to stopping bedspamming.
Partial Item Destruction
Pros
Discourages bedspamming as you will gradually lose all of you items.
Cons
Penalty for death may be too frustrating, as you could theoretically lose that diamond armor or pickaxe from a fall or lucky creeper.
This idea is sound, and I especially liked the idea of having you drop a chest filled with most of your inventory upon death, reducing the urgency to rush back and retrieve your scattered stuff. This could also make it possible to retrieve your stuff even if you fell in lava, depending on how t is implemented.
...I'm running out of time here, so I'll have to finish this later.
Well a chest dropped with no time limit combined with percentage drop could potentially fix the issue in general to where bed spamming is irrelevant. Maybe still start at half health to avoid dying intentionally just to quickly restore health, but yeah. I like this combination.
And I'm still wondering, if you get a time-unlimited special diamond chest, maybe it would only stick around until your next death/until you save and quit? It would still create some tension towards being careful lest you lose all of the items, but would set up a goal for the player similar to Demon's Souls death system. And it could save processing resources so you don't have diamond chests filled with loot scattered all over.
Or maybe the chest could drop in a random location. In the general area where you died, but not in the same spot necessarily. Make you search for it a bit. :tongue.gif:
Difficulty is moot.
*dies by spiders...*
*goes back to get my stuff and encounters spiders again.*
*turns on peaceful mode*
*takes stuff*
*leaves*
*puts difficulty back up*
If people want to make the game easier/"cheat" then they will. No reason to force such a broken system on those who don't desire to take the easy way out. He's right, it discourages exploration when you're anchored down to one spot.
One more suggestion to add, having listened to the many points made by people here.
To avoid people abusing beds, make it so that a new one can only be placed after a set amount of days since the last one.
Coupled with the "minimum distance" point I made in an earlier post, this should mean beds have to be used sensibly.
Krush.
I think that would just be overkill. I think the numerous other suggestions that have been agreed upon are more than enough to balance "bedspamming".
Besides that, beds would serve the dual function of decoration. What if a player wanted to build a barracks or a village or anything that required more than one bed? You'd be arbitrarily forcing them to draw out the construction time.
As for the "You shouldn't leave spawn area until you know what you are doing" argument:
You only are a novice once. After that, you are still a veteran player when a you start a new game. You are putting a restriction on everybody so enforce a play style on beginners. That is not a good standpoint to work from. Only the minority of people are just starting out.
I think one neat idea that no one has suggested yet would be to make it so that your bed couldn't be placed too far underground.
Since I'm assuming most of the really nasty encounters happen the farther down you go and the really good stuff is really far underground, bed-spamming wouldn't be such a huge issue since you couldn't use it when you really wanted to. Therefor you can make the bed cheep and newb friendly while still not game breaking. I'd say you couldn't place a bed any farther than you could encounter gold... then again I've never seen any gold so idk how far down that really is... or possibly not where you could see lava... something like that.
Other than that I like the idea of the expensive bed you start the game with, though that would make it hard to use it for decor, and I like the cheap bed with debuffs. I also really like the idea of making the beds more useful the more expensive they are.
I think one neat idea that no one has suggested yet would be to make it so that your bed couldn't be placed too far underground.
Since I'm assuming most of the really nasty encounters happen the farther down you go and the really good stuff is really far underground, bed-spamming wouldn't be such a huge issue since you couldn't use it when you really wanted to. Therefor you can make the bed cheep and newb friendly while still not game breaking. I'd say you couldn't place a bed any farther than you could encounter gold... then again I've never seen any gold so idk how far down that really is... or possibly not where you could see lava... something like that.
Other than that I like the idea of the expensive bed you start the game with, though that would make it hard to use it for decor, and I like the cheap bed with debuffs. I also really like the idea of making the beds more useful the more expensive they are.
I hope my idea isn't too horrible. :happy.gif:
It's not in itself a bad idea. The only problem is; some people, like myself, like building deep underground bases. By limiting our bed placement to a certain height or depth, your effectively limiting where we can live.
Then why have a world 1.8x the size of earth if you can't explore it? This doesn't make exploring easy, it makes it feasible. Currently, you are almost better off starting a new map if you die when exploring, because that way you get to see new terrain and you have an entire day to work with. Finding a cool place to settle is meaningless if any tiny mistake leads to you losing everything. Except for the very small percentage of people who actually consider 1 death/map to be a reasonable play strategy, exploration is pointless, unless you only want to observe the terrain.
And clinging to the current state of the game is silly. It is alpha. It is implicit that it will change. There are numerous points about the game that don't work(the ability to have a closed system and be completely safe from mobs, for one), and planned changes to correct those. The in feasibility of exploring the giant map is one of those flaws. Esp. once biomes come into play. Finding an interesting biome and working on it, then eventually moving on to a new one is a logical play style in that paradigm. Having to restart at spawn, lose everything with no chance of recovery, and start out again does not work with that strategy. Placing spawns needs to be a feasible solution.
In fact, your proposed "balance" on spawns is probably one of the most disruptive suggestions I've seen on this thread. It does absolutely nothing to discourage placing spawns where you think you are likely to die, and does little to prevent you from spawning in your base, except making it less immersive. I can think of several ways to spawn in your base without having mobs attack. If you do not utilize one of those, you make the game much more annoying. You are now spawning and having to deal with mobs immediately. This makes your re-death rate higher. Dying directly after respawning is simply annoying. There is no penalty, just a dirty move that hits you while you are unprepared.
The time directly after you spawn is the worst time for there to be danger. You are unprepared, so everything is more dangerous. You have nothing, so dying has no penalty. All that happens is you slow down the person from getting back in the game. Its also a cheap move. Getting killed directly after spawning is not fun. It is not good gameplay. Trying to prevent people from putting their spawn in their base is the opposite of what we need to do; putting your spawn in your base should be encouraged. The person who built his base 5 blocks from spawn? He should be able to put his spawn inside his base just as much as the person who traveled 5 kilometers then built a base. Allow the post-death vulnerability to be removed; it is not needed. The time period at which risk occurs should be pre-death, not post-death. You should be facing the danger before you die(which is why you die at that time) and respawn and get a new start. Not be in a safe state, fall into lava, and have to deal with mobs until you can run past all the skeletons to your base.
You need to realize what you are trying to defend. You are defending the spawn point outside of your base. This does not need defending, for the reasons listed above. furthermore, it exacerbates the problem. Instead of spawning and dealing with random mobs, you are ensuring danger is near, and the player is unarmed.
Seriously, give me 1 reason why you shouldn't spawn in your base.
I would agree with you completely, IscopeU....IF the the Minecraft world was a finite one maybe a few klicks wide by a few long. But the Minecraft world is VAST and soon Notch is going to add a great many things to make the landscape vary considerably over a distance.
Exploring even a kilometer or two from your base with a single set starting point is extremely difficult. Exploring any further than that: utterly impossible. There would be absolutely no point. It would be next to impossible to find where you had been, espcially if that is underground. And I'm not talking about your ability to recover your lost goods, but just to get back to where you were for any reason. If you have a base out there for any reason, the tedium of attempting to return to it grows exponentially with the distance from your spawn point. You could make a path, but the temporal and material costs of doing so would become insurmountable. And for what? A few lumps of coal? An ingot of iron? A diamond? I think not! For all that effort I'll just build a 1,000 x 1,000 x 64 strip mine and get every last block of everything right where I am. At least if I die I'm within reasonable walking distance of my great chasm.
I think Mystify has made the best arguments thus far. Lower the countdown-timer on dropped items, maybe have a percent chance of a few of your items isnta-vanish, maybe even throw in a less-than-full respawn health, and you've effectively balanced the bed spamming problem. If a player want's to drop a bed when they fear a nearing engagement, let them. That is a form of preparation. Do you think soldiers IRL camp a million miles from where they plan to engage their enemies? No, they don't. They camp as near as they can so they are as rested as possible for the fight ahead.
We don't need an overly complex mechanic to solve this issue. Simplicity is the key.
Key points of this suggestion:
-Easy to place spawner with infinite uses.
-The spawner does NOT revive you where you place it. Instead, it revives you some distance away, and always above ground.
-I personally think it should be expensive, but don't oppose a cheap spawner.
Detailed Post:
If I may, I posted my two cents on this yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39039
Don't read it. Everything there has been said in this thread, and after reading this, I see the flaws. Bedspamming never occurred to me before.
But maybe this will help balance the idea.
First, the spawner must be expensive. My idea was 8 gold blocks and 1 redstone.
Why? It encourages a player to set up near their original spawn point AT THE START. This gives them more or less a basic idea of what to expect from the game before they go out exploring for days.
However I won't object to a cheap spawner, I just feel that it should be something that has to be earned through a LOT of trial and error.
Will it discourage players that just want to head out and explore off the bat? ... Yeah. Probably. But perhaps not. (Warning: The next paragraph describes a mode of play. Feel free to skip.)
However I'm currently playing a mode where I explore as far as I can overworld, and set up a small base out of wood for nighttime. The idea is to spend no more than 3 days at a single base. I usually spend one day getting there and another day fixing up the place. Leave the next day with only the barest supplies and repeat. Simple, but you cover a lot of ground this way. Since I keep only a few supplies on me and leave the rest in the rest stops, I don't feel like I've lost that much, and can either try to find my way back to my rest stops or just head off in a new direction. Simple, but a little neat. It fulfills my exploration desire that I couldn't fulfill by mining a massive underground network next to my base. ... Although that was cool too.
Sorry for that, got off topic.
Here's my proposal: A placeable and retrievable spawner that has infinite uses.
Here's the catch: you don't spawn where you place it. Instead you spawn above ground, and a variable horizontal distance from where you placed the spawner (I'm thinking greater than 50 blocks, but less than 200, direction variable), using more or less the same coding as current spawn points. From here on out, this is your new spawn point until you retrieve your spawner (nulling your new point) and place it again (creating a newer one).
Right away this eliminates the threat of bedspamming, yet allows for a fixed point so you have a reliable spawner to set up a new base if you want to stay in the area for exploration purposes. It has all the annoyances that come with the default spawn point, so death is still a threat. The key point is that it will allow for cross-continental exploration with less of a penalty than returning to square (block?) 1.
Extra ideas:
a) This overrides your default spawner, provided it is the CLOSEST. If you stray too far towards your original location, then you spawn at block 1 again. This also allows for multiple spawn points to be made, with potentially multiple bases at each one, while not breaking the game.
:cool.gif: If spawners are placed too close together (I'm thinking within a 256 radius, but this can change), then your spawn location doesn't change, and the spawner is null, and remains null unless it is picked back up and placed outside the radius of a spawner/spawn point (Prevents stacking spawn points in multiplayer, more on that in a minute). Perhaps the spawner could glow when active as an indicator.
c) Multiplayer, particularly future PvP.
Note: For PvP, I just think of it as regular Survival, except you can attack and damage other players as you would mobs.
If you and a group set up a base, it could be miles from your original spawn point. Placing a spawner in the base will help keep you close to home in case of a attack by the opposition. Needless to say, this makes spawners the primary objectives when trying to capture a base, and thus they must be well hidden and well protected. If you went to a lives system, you could start without a default spawn point and ONLY have portable spawners, and make them uncraftable. Thus, if all your spawners are claimed by the opposition, you cannot respawn until your spawner is retrieved and placed. If all your spawners are destroyed by time, lava, etc, GAME OVER. (Seems like an interesting concept, feel free to expand on it or debug. Just came up with it now.)
Hmm.... I think that's it. Feedback is much appreciated!
This whole discussion has been pretty great, and the more it goes on, the more I'm realizing that the spawner alone can't solve the issue. The percentage drop rate is a great suggestion. I still think starting on the bed with only 1 heart or limited health could work, but beds can then restore your health over time. (Yes you could set up a bed just before a big fight, but you could just as easily eat meat. And if you have enemies chasing you the recovery of hearts on a bed will be too slow to save you)
But the main point is. I DO NOT want the bed to be difficult to make. I'm not even sure I like the wait time on building as much any more. It should be a normally crafted item, just like work benches, furnaces, and storage chests. If someone wants to set up a base right near a danger zone then so be it. Yes they could be right near where they died, but with losing some of their items already as unreclaimable (only a percentage of items drop, the rest are gone), and having only 1 heart to start with you'll still have to weigh risk vs reward on getting your stuff back. Do you care about the dropped items enough to risk it, or should you just wait a bit and recover health? If items dropped were to disappear on the next death (you die, drop items, die again, those items are all gone, with whatever you had on you dropped now instead) then this would even further prevent simply bed spamming (although you could make a mad rush to pick the items up before dying, but then you lose more to percentage drop and you've made no real progress).
Also I'm fine with the drop timer being tied to spawn proximity (closer you are, the less time you have to reclaim your items) or to simply keep a fixed timer but shorten it.
Also for the actual crafting of the bed, one of the core aspects of this game is that the crafting just makes sense. You might not be able to figure out how to craft everything just by instinct or anything, but once you have crafted something it's pretty easy to remember it, because you can link the pieces together in your head (sticks make the handle, then the larger material makes the head in the shape of the tool) Gold and diamonds and redstone and all that is just weird for a bed. You can make it into a different spawner besides a bed of course, but then you're getting more abstract. I just really like the idea of a "bed." A safe-haven. Something you can return to and feel comforted. It just fits too well.
So I go back to my first crafting proposal.
Wool sheets
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> Feather mattress
Wood frame
Simple, still requires you to collect some materials, but it's a light enough requirement that you can make it on day one. And I really do think it makes sense as far as recognizing it as a bed.
Also as an off-topic but slightly on-topic point. Monsters currently seem to all despawn on player death. This really seems like it should be changed, or at least that monsters can begin respawning more quickly after the player spawns. Otherwise looting a dungeon really will be far too simple with beds. (It already seems pretty simple if the dungeon is near enough to your spawn point anyways)
I think it's a distance thing. Once the blocks are removed from memory the mobs disappear.
I like the randomly destroyed items idea best.
That's actually I meant to say. I was half asleep at the time and it was close to 2:30am :tongue.gif:
A happy medium is vital if the game is to flourish. Yes, too much flexibility on this issue will make dying merely an inconvenience, as a opposed to a real pain (which is what it should be). Currently I think the balance is *too* far towards the "real pain" side of things. Attaching the right strings to flexible spawn points is the best way to go (such as making it something the user has to make from different components, or possibly giving a very limited number of flexible spawn points every, say 2 hours of real game time).
I'll try to frame my opinions and arguments better in the future, when I'm not falling asleep at the keyboard. :tongue.gif:
1.
Forcing people to be in "danger" isn't making the game any funner.
And you're assuming its night.
So people are forced into a fight right?
Naked, they'll either run or die/repeat. That's not a good idea for game design. Chum.
During the day its just one big ass walk back to find your base.
2.
Build base around spawn.
Oh look I just did that thing you didn't want me to do, lock myself away from everything.
Oh noes your plan was foiled by my slighter higher IQ, of 25.
3.
In alot of your posts your arguing on why the bed idea "ruins" exploring.
Wtf are you high? The incentive to explore unrestricted was the whole idea of the suggestion.
Majority of people build a base right near their spawn point simply because exploring will get you lost and you'll lose everything.
Again, you High?
4.
You're assuming the "Bed" idea is abusable, carrying it with you wherever you go.
[sarcasm]Incredibly Innovative Suggestion: [/sarcasm]
Make beds via construction only, un-placable in your inventory, and buildable within 50 sqm of a dungeon.
Now you can't Bed in a fight or abuse it near dangerous situations**
You may argue "People messing with spawns via lava or obsidian or whatnot"
That can be done already in-game with normal spawns, so that's not a problem with the bed suggestion.It's a general game design flaw that needs to and will be addressed before the game goes global.
Again, I foiled your inane ideals and with my slighter higher IQ of 25.
Keep it up Dubas! If you keep at it, one day you'll reach my level of intelligence one day too!
**To a certain extent, there's certain people that will abuse anything and everything in anyway they can. That's just life. Doesn't affect your gameplay. Just makes the abusers look like idiots.
It would be fantastic for exploring the wide-open Minecraft world, but just tossing it down like a torch whenever there's danger (it doesn't need to be just a dungeon, it can be any monster while you're just spelunking) kind of takes away from said danger. A placeable spawn thrown into the game without any thought behind what its limits should be would mean that before death someone could toss down a bed. Now they spawn in the same spot with full health and can quickly grab all of their loot. Death has just lost its sting. (The exception being lava. That would still sting)
THAT is what Duba has been arguing against. Placeable spawn points with no limits that, as a result, cheapens death.
Or at least that's what I got from his contributions to the discussion. (I guess I shouldn't really speak for other people though. )
But as I said above, with reading this whole discussion I'm really thinking that the limits of the spawn point alone can't fix the issue, but also what happens both upon death and when the player spawns should be revised as well.
Your statements does not make sense.
Your saying if you've been given the option to bore the hell out of yourself in your safe haven, that you're willing to do so? Nobody said that if you have a spawn point that your gonna camp it, that's boring and you gain NOTHING out of it.
Bed and spawns work because in multiplayer, the early bird gets the worm, and by worm I mean resources.
[serious]Alright, I'm not even going to really give an honest response to the IQ guy. If you really think I'm that stupid, why did you go through all the time to respond to my obviously flawed ideals? Just ignore me. The reason my ideas change is because I'm not bull-headed. If somebody has a better point than mine, I change my viewpoint a little to include what they have said. If you don't allow people to have an affect on the way you think, why are you on a public forum?
Also:
That was from the start of the thread, and my arguments against the bed at that point were extremely weak. I'll admit that, and it's why I have such switched somewhat to the side of wanting to have it implemented. I'm just being careful with how it should be implemented. Please, try to be nice.
I will take that as a compliment, good sir! However, I'm thinking of deleting that post. It seems to be hindering the actual discussion at this point.[/serious]
Actual useful post starts here
Currently, this is what I feel is the best way to implement the respawn bed into the game (you guys have come up with some great ideas!):
Make it so that you can place the bed anywhere, spawn on it an infinite amount of times, and make it cheap. However, you will only spawn with 1 heart while using it, which encourages people to keep it in their base. I would like to add the possibility of making it so that if you're within a 3 square-radius around the bed (on any plane) you'll slowly start to gain hearts back. However, if you take damage you will no longer gain hearts back from the bed until you respawn from it again, which stops people from gaining all but 1 heart from full life, going off and fighting, and coming back to use it as a 'free' heal. The time at which you gain hearts back is still very up to discussion, though.
Thanks to all of you for keeping this thread alive while I was asleep :biggrin.gif:
-Duba
Edit:
No worries buddy, sorry to be a little sharp with you. :smile.gif:
There shouldn't be a requirement that you need to build on or near your original spawn. Ever. If I don't like the area I'm in at the start I want the option to keep searching until I do find a place I like. Going further one of the basic essentials after making tools is finding coal. You won't always have coal within view of your start point. And if I have to go far out into the wilderness to find some coal, chances are I won't have carefully marked my path. Which means it's entirely possible that I'm now disoriented and don't even know what direction my spawn is in. And if I'm this far out, I'll want to set up camp out where I found the coal, since the long travel has eaten half the day.
A few in-game days have passed, I've built up a nice fort and found some iron, but haven't had the chance to do any in-depth mining. I walk out to get some wood and boom, creeper explodes.
Now I'm back at the start and I have no idea where my fort is. If I started in-land it's possible my fort could be in any direction (I didn't just walk forward when I started before, I went exploring. Again, my exploration route wasn't marked since I was A: Just starting out, and B: Was trying to get some coal and shelter before nightfall.)
So I've basically lost everything and have to start again.
This is why I want the spawner to be cheap. It should be a staple of any base, and should be craftable on the very first day. I shouldn't have to worry about limiting the number of spawners I can make and it shouldn't be a luxury item. Making spawners limited like that will also hinder exploration and make exploration into a special occasion. I don't want exploration to be something I have to work towards achieving. If I want to explore I want to explore without worrying about the game screwing me over and losing all of that exploration!
As I've begun saying, placeable spawners by themselves would not be the issue. It's the spawn mechanic in general that could do with some tweaking. I know my original suggestion was another way to limit spawner crafting, but I've changed my mind. I don't WANT spawners to be limited. I want the spawn mechanic to be changed so that death is unwelcomed in general but without having to worry about losing your entire base or area of exploration. That's not as fun to me. The current mechanic of spawning with full health and being able to retrieve all dropped items, but forcing the player to re-navigate their entire trek over the course of the game back to their death spot is not good. I don't like it. I've been here, done this, I don't need to do it again over and over just because I die.
So make beds easy enough to make that you can have one on the first day.
Change to only a percentage of items dropped on death, the rest gone. And spawn with only 1 heart or half health or something to that effect instead of full health, but make beds recover hearts slowly over time. (Again, risk vs. reward. Start going right away with less health, or wait around and recover it)
And I'm not sure I like recovery stopping when you're hit. I think the recovery time should just be long enough that it won't do much to save you while being hit or chased. Yes you can run back to the bed to heal while in a safe-room, but it'll take time. You could just as easily carry meat with you and be good to go instantly.
As far as I can tell this would likely work and would be the least intrusive on the player in general. I like this idea and until I hear other ideas that catch my interest it's the one I'll stick by (although it's obviously not fully fleshed out and could use tweaking, but the idea in general seems to be the most sound to me at this point).
[EDIT] Just want to point out I'm not really trying to undermine synapseshock's suggestion or say that the expensive spawner suggestions are inherently bad in any way. It's just not the way I personally would like to see it go in.
There are a lot of variables that could affect game balance and make it too easy or less enjoyable. It's not really possible to take all of these variables into account until we have something implemented into the game that we can judge in respect to how it actually works within the game. Until it's in the game all we can really do is speculate, so I'm not saying I'm right, you're wrong, my way or the highway or anything like that. This is just my speculation on what I think at the moment is what I would like for the game. It's not a simple right or wrong "Spawners should be this."
Just wanted that said so nobody thinks I'm attacking them or trying to just shoot their suggestions down with this.
It seems that spawning exactly where you place your spawner is favored, so I'm going to work under that assumption.
The purpose of this is to evaluate some of various options to making a portable spawn point.
The goal is to make a portable spawner that encourages exploration, while still giving harsh penalties for death.
Cheap
Pros
A cheap spawner has the advantage of being set up early in the game, likely by the end of day 1. This allows for long distance exploring right off the bat, which will likely prove useful if a player spawns somewhere they don't want, especially once things like biomes are introduced, or monster villages, etc.
A cheap spawner makes a more believable bed, as well. Design can be argued over, but it seems that a bed is favored.
Cons
A cheap spawner has increased potential for bedspamming, depending on the exact way it operates.
Expensive
Pros
Encourages player to stay in one place and build close to their spawn point at the start. This can be useful for new players, assuming that the current rules stay the same for default spawn points.
There is a greater sense of reward when one is made.
Bedspamming is discouraged, especially if a spawner cannot be picked up again.
Cons
Veteran players will feel this is a waste of time when they want to head out exploring. It may not take long when compared to a new player, but it will take at least 3 game days (probably more, this is a very conservative guess) to make a spawner.
Looking at this, I favor the cheap spawner, but I like exploring the overworld, so I'm biased. I'd be happy with either cheap or expensive.
Retreivable
Pros
Makes placing the spawner incorrectly without penalty, especially if you want to remodel the area or just made a mistake placing it. Note that this is not as essential with a cheap spawner.
Cons
Encourages bedspamming, as you can pick up and go after the encounter is finished. Doubly so if it is an expensive spawner.
Recovers Health Gradually, but spawning greatly reduces health.
Pros
Highly discourages bedspamming, as starting with low health makes you an easy target, especially without armor or weapons.
Cons
Pretty harsh if you leave this in your base and have to run to the caves. Unless you stock bread and meat beside your bed, along with at least a sword, you won't be able to venture out to get your stuff back until you've recovered your health, but by then your items could be gone.
Mobs Attacking Spawner
Pros
Highly discourages bedspamming or leaving a bed outside, as mobs will attack and destroy it, and will move towards it as they would you, meaning you could respawn surrounded by mobs.
Cons
With Notch planing to make torches finite later on, it is possible that mobs could appear in your base and destroy your spawner before you can replace the torches.
If combines with low health at respawn, this could get you stuck i a loop of death, which while funny for the rest of us, would prove beyond annoying for the victim.
Potential coding nightmare for Notch. Mobs don't attack blocks, and they have to be able to see the player before they become aggressive. Mobs also dont' spawn anywhere besides near players, and despawn when a player moves too far away to save on processing speed. With multiple spawn points across the map, this could wreak havoc on processing speed.
In general I'm against this idea, and would prefer to see an alternative to stopping bedspamming.
Partial Item Destruction
Pros
Discourages bedspamming as you will gradually lose all of you items.
Cons
Penalty for death may be too frustrating, as you could theoretically lose that diamond armor or pickaxe from a fall or lucky creeper.
This idea is sound, and I especially liked the idea of having you drop a chest filled with most of your inventory upon death, reducing the urgency to rush back and retrieve your scattered stuff. This could also make it possible to retrieve your stuff even if you fell in lava, depending on how t is implemented.
...I'm running out of time here, so I'll have to finish this later.
Well a chest dropped with no time limit combined with percentage drop could potentially fix the issue in general to where bed spamming is irrelevant. Maybe still start at half health to avoid dying intentionally just to quickly restore health, but yeah. I like this combination.
And I'm still wondering, if you get a time-unlimited special diamond chest, maybe it would only stick around until your next death/until you save and quit? It would still create some tension towards being careful lest you lose all of the items, but would set up a goal for the player similar to Demon's Souls death system. And it could save processing resources so you don't have diamond chests filled with loot scattered all over.
Or maybe the chest could drop in a random location. In the general area where you died, but not in the same spot necessarily. Make you search for it a bit. :tongue.gif:
*dies by spiders...*
*goes back to get my stuff and encounters spiders again.*
*turns on peaceful mode*
*takes stuff*
*leaves*
*puts difficulty back up*
If people want to make the game easier/"cheat" then they will. No reason to force such a broken system on those who don't desire to take the easy way out. He's right, it discourages exploration when you're anchored down to one spot.
I think that would just be overkill. I think the numerous other suggestions that have been agreed upon are more than enough to balance "bedspamming".
Besides that, beds would serve the dual function of decoration. What if a player wanted to build a barracks or a village or anything that required more than one bed? You'd be arbitrarily forcing them to draw out the construction time.
You only are a novice once. After that, you are still a veteran player when a you start a new game. You are putting a restriction on everybody so enforce a play style on beginners. That is not a good standpoint to work from. Only the minority of people are just starting out.
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" />
Cheap wooden bed (3 layers: wool, feathers, wood): Respawn with one heart. No Regen.
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" />
Iron bed (bottom layer of iron): Respawn with one heart, peaceful-style regen until full or damaged.
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" />
Gold bed (at last a use for gold?): Full health spawner. Or, half hearts/faster regen.
They are lost when destroyed. You respawn at the nearest one.
This thread is awesome.
A Pattern Language for Minecraft
Minecraft Facts: A Sources Thread
These are actually pretty good recipies.
[quote=8bit]
By balance, do you mean make it totally worthless?
Since I'm assuming most of the really nasty encounters happen the farther down you go and the really good stuff is really far underground, bed-spamming wouldn't be such a huge issue since you couldn't use it when you really wanted to. Therefor you can make the bed cheep and newb friendly while still not game breaking. I'd say you couldn't place a bed any farther than you could encounter gold... then again I've never seen any gold so idk how far down that really is... or possibly not where you could see lava... something like that.
Other than that I like the idea of the expensive bed you start the game with, though that would make it hard to use it for decor, and I like the cheap bed with debuffs. I also really like the idea of making the beds more useful the more expensive they are.
I hope my idea isn't too horrible. :happy.gif:
It's not in itself a bad idea. The only problem is; some people, like myself, like building deep underground bases. By limiting our bed placement to a certain height or depth, your effectively limiting where we can live.