Bed spamming does not have to be prevented, just made less desirable.
You mean less benficial? There are plenty of more or less aethetic reason for bed-spamming that it would be a shame to lose simply as a heavy handed means of dealing with it's abuse.
Putting 20 beds in a room and calling it a barracks is not bed spamming. That does not need to be limited. Placing beds to remove danger should be discourages(not prevented), and I have already outlined ways to accomplish this.
Putting 20 beds in a room and calling it a barracks is not bed spamming. That does not need to be limited. Placing beds to remove danger should be discourages(not prevented), and I have already outlined ways to accomplish this.
And I have supported them. I'm just saying precison aids in bringing an argument to a concensus.
Here's another thought about a three-bed hierarchy system:
You spawn in your nearest, most expensive bed.
That way, you'd better not make permanent gold beds underground, or you might find yourself spawning there instead of your nice house next time you die.
Your best strategy is to destroy any temporary bed you make, and if you want to be sure of spawning in one place rather than another, you'd best make your bed expensive... or keep them all cheap.
Death is still pretty risky/unpredictable because it may be tricky to figure out the maths (distance vs expense) of which bed you'll wake up in.
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I'd like to throw my two cents into this giant pile of ideas! =D
Firstly, with all this "bed" stuff. Fine, put timers on beds. BUT - make at least one kind of bed which doesn't trigger the spawn thing, one which is purely aesthetic, therefore no problems in creating barbie dream houses and barracks. I really want something to throw into my tiny castle =D And a closet to store my many, many designer outfits stolen from zombies impersonating elvis and michael jackson.
Secondly with the beds, could u use them to sleep in just to wait the night out? i find myself doing things that get me killed cause i get so bored.
Thirdly, on the note of spawning locations. I was thinking on this today and came up with a completely different idea. How about there being, along with the randomly generated map, spawn points also generated in the same way. What i mean is, after every X-hundred blocks out from your first spawn you can "unlock" the others by reaching them. All of these spawn points would be above ground, and for the coding people out there must contain X amount of dirt blocks or something surrounding it (just so that you don't end up spawning in the water everytime). Additionally, upon unlocking this spawn point, the game will PAUSE (incase you find it at night with creepers on your tail) and notify you of your amazing discovery, asking if you would like to give a name for the spawn point. This is useful, in that the name of the spawn point can help you remember exactly what your surroundings are, or what you built there or whatever. Once you die you will be given a list of your discovered spawn points of which you can select yourself to spawn at. Sound good?
Hope this post has helped somehow in making all these ideas become clearer in this thread.
I'd like to throw my two cents into this giant pile of ideas! =D
Firstly, with all this "bed" stuff. Fine, put timers on beds. BUT - make at least one kind of bed which doesn't trigger the spawn thing, one which is purely aesthetic, therefore no problems in creating barbie dream houses and barracks. I really want something to throw into my tiny castle =D And a closet to store my many, many designer outfits stolen from zombies impersonating elvis and michael jackson.
Yes, this certainly occurred to me - probably shouldn't be the cheapest bed type though, since a new player may stumble across the bed recipe and find that it doesn't offer a spawning mechanic. I'd anticipate that a 'trial-and-error' player would build a bed, and find that that was where they appear next time they die - cue lightbulb as to the spawn mechanic.
How could you distinguish non-spawning beds?
Quote from LJonesy »
Secondly with the beds, could u use them to sleep in just to wait the night out? i find myself doing things that get me killed cause i get so bored.
This is super tempting, but isn't this actually a game mechanic, in exactly the way you describe? It obliges you to change activities by transforming the nature of the world. Arguably it's the core impetus of minecraft...
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Quote from Crosbie »
Yes, this certainly occurred to me - probably shouldn't be the cheapest bed type though, since a new player may stumble across the bed recipe and find that it doesn't offer a spawning mechanic. I'd anticipate that a 'trial-and-error' player would build a bed, and find that that was where they appear next time they die - cue lightbulb as to the spawn mechanic.
How could you distinguish non-spawning beds?
Considering what you say below, the beds are simply beds. They're there as an aesthetic, i think all the last few pages of discussion turned a bed into a particularly complex item, whereas all i'm thinking of is a simple object to complete the building you make a bit more.
Distinguish? You mean like picking up a pick axe and unpacking it like you do every other item you pretty much create in the game? I don't see how a bed would be any different from that.
Quote from Crosbie »
This is super tempting, but isn't this actually a game mechanic, in exactly the way you describe? It obliges you to change activities by transforming the nature of the world. Arguably it's the core impetus of minecraft...
Depends on play style, i tend to come up with big projects i can't do during the night, so i sometimes end up waiting.
Has anyone consider the structure of which the bed is built on?
Does it stick in midair like blocks? But this only leads to exploits like someone digging out a big hole around your bed, making you unable to get somewhere without getting stuck.
And if you make beds breakable when the blocks under it in broken, it can collapse a bit too easily.
Being able to spawn in your base does not remove the fear of dying. It removes the pointless trek through danger when you have already failed and have nothing to lose. If we go with my percentage lost idea, then no matter what else happens, you are at a disadvantage from dying. trying to exploit the spawn mechanic to regain items actually makes it more likely that you lose more. Even if you do exploit it, and manage to recollect items, there is a strong possibility that your sword/armour is gone, leaving you vulnerable.
I just spent a game day building a box around my spawn point and making a tunnel to my base. If I die, I don't have to worry about getting back to my gear, it's just a run.
Also, as per your last paragraph, by the time beds are abused as a method of transporting yourself quickly (get halfway there then kill youself) I think the system needs to get looked at again.
Movable spawn points are a necessity to allow you to explore and enjoy different biomes. They should not be used for general convenience.
Whoah, remember you drop all your stuff when you die, so not the most convenient fast-travel exploit there.
@LJonesy: I meant distinguish a non-spawning bed from a spawning bed.
Yes, you're right that this thread has become a bit bed-fixated, and a spawner could be an entirely separate object. There's something neat about the respawn point being a bed though.
If beds are just decorative, you can improvise them already, as people do with sofas and log fires.
Whoah, remember you drop all your stuff when you die, so not the most convenient fast-travel exploit there.
It's a point, but it still doesn't prevent me from dropping all my things in chests at one base, then making a trek to the other with nothing on, apart from maybe a token stone sword to hit any monsters before the halfway point.
My point is, there shouldn't be any way the system can be abused to make MC more convenient. I recognise that it's a necessity, what with biomes coming in, so that you can explore different areas and go to new, ore rich areas. But that should be its only function.
The way MMO's handled this was to add a REAL penalty for dieing that can't be worked around. In World of Warcraft, your armor degrades - in Final Fantasy you lose experience....
I don't know what you could do for Minecraft, perhaps make it so that all the torches you own are destroyed when you die. That's just a random idea though, feel free to call me stupid for even suggesting it. (I mean nothing is there to stop you from taking down all your torches and putting them away and THEN abusing the travelling system, but its almost more of a hassle than its worth considering the size of some people's bases...)
When notch adds the real fast-travel system, traveling overground halfway with nothing to get to your base probably won't be the best way to fast-travel. Even if you do use that method(and this is all assuming you can have multiple active beds, which doesn't have to be the case. I would personally suggest a "use the bed to set your spawn" method, which bypasses this entire issue), you get your other base with nothing, possibly lose health, depending on what other suggestions are used, and it is generally inconvenient to not take stuff with you from place to place.
I think bed spamming is ok and that beds should be cheap to make. You should be allowed to play like that if you so desire. If you don't want to play like that, then don't. The only experience you could be harming is your own (although some might think of it as enriching it).
You shouldn't be punished for using an alternate spawn. I could see if you wanted different types of beds that let you spawn with a variable amount of hearts, but you should not make using beds a hassle by limiting its usage, destroying carried items, etc. Those mechanics, although they may sound somewhat appealing, would just end up causing more frustration.
There's nothing wrong with making a bed outside of a dangerous area. I already have set crafting tables and chests outside areas I deem as dangerous. Why not let me include a place to spawn? There's nothing gained from having to run there other than having extra time to yell at myself for making a stupid mistake.
It would let me focus more on exploring and playing the game than on traveling well-worn paths that offer very little to my playing experience.
Makes sense
You mean less benficial? There are plenty of more or less aethetic reason for bed-spamming that it would be a shame to lose simply as a heavy handed means of dealing with it's abuse.
And I have supported them. I'm just saying precison aids in bringing an argument to a concensus.
You spawn in your nearest, most expensive bed.
That way, you'd better not make permanent gold beds underground, or you might find yourself spawning there instead of your nice house next time you die.
Your best strategy is to destroy any temporary bed you make, and if you want to be sure of spawning in one place rather than another, you'd best make your bed expensive... or keep them all cheap.
Death is still pretty risky/unpredictable because it may be tricky to figure out the maths (distance vs expense) of which bed you'll wake up in.
A Pattern Language for Minecraft
Minecraft Facts: A Sources Thread
Firstly, with all this "bed" stuff. Fine, put timers on beds. BUT - make at least one kind of bed which doesn't trigger the spawn thing, one which is purely aesthetic, therefore no problems in creating barbie dream houses and barracks. I really want something to throw into my tiny castle =D And a closet to store my many, many designer outfits stolen from zombies impersonating elvis and michael jackson.
Secondly with the beds, could u use them to sleep in just to wait the night out? i find myself doing things that get me killed cause i get so bored.
Thirdly, on the note of spawning locations. I was thinking on this today and came up with a completely different idea. How about there being, along with the randomly generated map, spawn points also generated in the same way. What i mean is, after every X-hundred blocks out from your first spawn you can "unlock" the others by reaching them. All of these spawn points would be above ground, and for the coding people out there must contain X amount of dirt blocks or something surrounding it (just so that you don't end up spawning in the water everytime). Additionally, upon unlocking this spawn point, the game will PAUSE (incase you find it at night with creepers on your tail) and notify you of your amazing discovery, asking if you would like to give a name for the spawn point. This is useful, in that the name of the spawn point can help you remember exactly what your surroundings are, or what you built there or whatever. Once you die you will be given a list of your discovered spawn points of which you can select yourself to spawn at. Sound good?
Hope this post has helped somehow in making all these ideas become clearer in this thread.
Yes, this certainly occurred to me - probably shouldn't be the cheapest bed type though, since a new player may stumble across the bed recipe and find that it doesn't offer a spawning mechanic. I'd anticipate that a 'trial-and-error' player would build a bed, and find that that was where they appear next time they die - cue lightbulb as to the spawn mechanic.
How could you distinguish non-spawning beds?
This is super tempting, but isn't this actually a game mechanic, in exactly the way you describe? It obliges you to change activities by transforming the nature of the world. Arguably it's the core impetus of minecraft...
A Pattern Language for Minecraft
Minecraft Facts: A Sources Thread
Considering what you say below, the beds are simply beds. They're there as an aesthetic, i think all the last few pages of discussion turned a bed into a particularly complex item, whereas all i'm thinking of is a simple object to complete the building you make a bit more.
Distinguish? You mean like picking up a pick axe and unpacking it like you do every other item you pretty much create in the game? I don't see how a bed would be any different from that.
Depends on play style, i tend to come up with big projects i can't do during the night, so i sometimes end up waiting.
Does it stick in midair like blocks? But this only leads to exploits like someone digging out a big hole around your bed, making you unable to get somewhere without getting stuck.
And if you make beds breakable when the blocks under it in broken, it can collapse a bit too easily.
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Whoah, remember you drop all your stuff when you die, so not the most convenient fast-travel exploit there.
@LJonesy: I meant distinguish a non-spawning bed from a spawning bed.
Yes, you're right that this thread has become a bit bed-fixated, and a spawner could be an entirely separate object. There's something neat about the respawn point being a bed though.
If beds are just decorative, you can improvise them already, as people do with sofas and log fires.
A Pattern Language for Minecraft
Minecraft Facts: A Sources Thread
The way MMO's handled this was to add a REAL penalty for dieing that can't be worked around. In World of Warcraft, your armor degrades - in Final Fantasy you lose experience....
I don't know what you could do for Minecraft, perhaps make it so that all the torches you own are destroyed when you die. That's just a random idea though, feel free to call me stupid for even suggesting it. (I mean nothing is there to stop you from taking down all your torches and putting them away and THEN abusing the travelling system, but its almost more of a hassle than its worth considering the size of some people's bases...)
You shouldn't be punished for using an alternate spawn. I could see if you wanted different types of beds that let you spawn with a variable amount of hearts, but you should not make using beds a hassle by limiting its usage, destroying carried items, etc. Those mechanics, although they may sound somewhat appealing, would just end up causing more frustration.
There's nothing wrong with making a bed outside of a dangerous area. I already have set crafting tables and chests outside areas I deem as dangerous. Why not let me include a place to spawn? There's nothing gained from having to run there other than having extra time to yell at myself for making a stupid mistake.
It would let me focus more on exploring and playing the game than on traveling well-worn paths that offer very little to my playing experience.