Notch did say he was going to do this on live-stream, and that is where he got the idea to make current torches into lanterns to not screw over the people who are relying on torches currently.
Having lanterns burn oil defeats the point of them being permanent light sources.
I would also say that torches burning out in your mines, leaving dark areas, is a good thing. AS it is, it is not hard for mines to be perfectly safe.
If your mine starts in your house, it is easy to go the entire game(once you get your first torch) without being exposed to a single enemy. Making mines potentially dangerous would encourage more advanced tactics
What if there where 3 kinds of light sources, torches which would run out. Lanterns that can be attached to walls and roofs but would run out. But you could run something like a pipe system to the lanterns. You could place like a big tank in your base and fill that up with oil and the pipes would then carry it to all the lanterns. Lastly want if you could build a helmet with a lantern in it.
Thats just my three cents
This is what I was thinking too. But lanterns would still last a very long time, like 5+ minecraft days when full. Such a system would allow you to turn lanterns on and off to conserve oil too.
But get lanterns in and torches limited first. After that, you can continue to mess with the system. Small steps.
What if there where 3 kinds of light sources, torches which would run out. Lanterns that can be attached to walls and roofs but would run out. But you could run something like a pipe system to the lanterns. You could place like a big tank in your base and fill that up with oil and the pipes would then carry it to all the lanterns. Lastly want if you could build a helmet with a lantern in it.
Thats just my three cents
This is what I was thinking too. But lanterns would still last a very long time, like 5+ minecraft days when full. Such a system would allow you to turn lanterns on and off to conserve oil too.
But get lanterns in and torches limited first. After that, you can continue to mess with the system. Small steps.
No, PLEASE NO.
We only need two types of light sources.. The torches and the lanterns. One that runs out, and one that never does.
It's amazing. The main argument over this is about striking a balance between an infinte light source and a finite one. It's been mentioned repeatedly on this thread alone that if torches become finite that they will become useless. What if Notch makes it that you can only cary ONE lantern per slot. EVEN if they are as cheap as a torch you will STILL carry torches because you can carry HUNDREDS of them with just a few free slots.
What if there where 3 kinds of light sources, torches which would run out. Lanterns that can be attached to walls and roofs but would run out. But you could run something like a pipe system to the lanterns. You could place like a big tank in your base and fill that up with oil and the pipes would then carry it to all the lanterns. Lastly want if you could build a helmet with a lantern in it.
Thats just my three cents
This is what I was thinking too. But lanterns would still last a very long time, like 5+ minecraft days when full. Such a system would allow you to turn lanterns on and off to conserve oil too.
But get lanterns in and torches limited first. After that, you can continue to mess with the system. Small steps.
No, PLEASE NO.
We only need two types of light sources.. The torches and the lanterns. One that runs out, and one that never does.
Yes don't overcomplicate things.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
But i do think they should start fadeing to give you a indication before they completely expire.
(Example; Each day the light will grow darker and darker untill its all used up 3-4days)
Also with the new lantern's you could possible be able to create 2 types of them.
Regular latern (Lights a slightly bigger area then the torch and last FOREVER.)
Super latern(Light's a area 2x bigger then a regular latern and last's FOREVER.)
Also mabye the Super Latern could damage the NPC's/BOT's?
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Quote from Commrade23 »
Quote from bobsbees »
I've found a cave with over 6 skeletons...
30zombies would screw me over even more o.O
I wonder if lanterns will have the same effect on sand and gravel as torches do? Because I have airlocks all through my mine, and would hate for them to disappear D:
And its impossible to have mining perfectly safe as it is. If you're finding things too easy I'm sorry to hear that, are you playing on an easy setting?
I play on hard, and my mines are always safe. Lighting up every tunnel you make is trivial. It is simple to light up caves as you explore. It may not be perfectly safe, but it can easily be 99% safe.
Quote from theicychameleon »
Torches are the only lasting defence against mobs in the game and the only way to "civilise" areas and make them yours. If you take them away, or turn them into something hideously expensive, then no matter what you build you're going to have to high tail it back to a tiny compount every 20 minutes.
Well, now lanterns will be the only lasting defense against mobs in the game. Its not like the role is being removed, just shifted to something non-trivial. They don't need to be hideously expensive; just non-trivial so you can't easily spam lanterns in every tunnel you see. It shouldn't be hard to have a cost that makes it affordable to light up your base, and other key locations, without making them practical for complete mine coverage.
Yes, the change will make the game that much harder. Yes, it will shift the dynamics a bit. But both of these are in much-needed ways.
And its impossible to have mining perfectly safe as it is. If you're finding things too easy I'm sorry to hear that, are you playing on an easy setting?
I play on hard, and my mines are always safe. Lighting up every tunnel you make is trivial. It is simple to light up caves as you explore. It may not be perfectly safe, but it can easily be 99% safe.
Quote from theicychameleon »
Torches are the only lasting defence against mobs in the game and the only way to "civilise" areas and make them yours. If you take them away, or turn them into something hideously expensive, then no matter what you build you're going to have to high tail it back to a tiny compount every 20 minutes.
Well, now lanterns will be the only lasting defense against mobs in the game. Its not like the role is being removed, just shifted to something non-trivial. They don't need to be hideously expensive; just non-trivial so you can't easily spam lanterns in every tunnel you see. It shouldn't be hard to have a cost that makes it affordable to light up your base, and other key locations, without making them practical for complete mine coverage.
Yes, the change will make the game that much harder. Yes, it will shift the dynamics a bit. But both of these are in much-needed ways.
I believe torches should be a weak and cheap method to create your base with. They could be made only with sticks, and used for 2-3 days before expiring.
Lanterns could be made with Oil, but never use up the Oil. I have heard of lanterns that use oil for weeks without having to be refilled.
Finally, one of my ideas was a fireplace. Also infinite, a fireplace creates enough light to fill a 16x16c5 square or something, and would be used primarily in houses. It would also cost a LOT.
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I would have loved lanterns if mobs didnt spawn in dark
But let me think
Lantern which will possibly include glass which is hard to get on the first day where there is an uber need of light for any type of base is better than infinite burning torches which are available on the go and are a must when mining ?
I'd go with placeable toches and carryable lanterns,both infinite
Torches should be infinite but with reduced lighting whereas a lantern would be infinite and carryable AND would produce enough light that a lantern could light up a 9x9 house too.
That would be totally any effort for getting lantern
I would have loved lanterns if mobs didnt spawn in dark
But let me think
Lantern which will possibly include glass which is hard to get on the first day where there is an uber need of light for any type of base is better than infinite burning torches which are available on the go and are a must when mining ?
I'd go with placeable toches and carryable lanterns,both infinite
Torches should be infinite but with reduced lighting whereas a lantern would be infinite and carryable AND would produce enough light that a lantern could light up a 9x9 house too.
That would be totally any effort for getting lantern
You can still light your house with torches in the beginning. You'll just want to replace them with lanterns once you can make them. Besides, glass is often easier to get than coal. Part of point of finite torches is so you can't just light up the entire known world and be safe. Making lanterns carryable and torches not doesn't even make sense.
Alright, I don't know why people are so uptight about finite torches. From what I've heard first of all, torches that exist before lanterns will be turned into lanterns.
Secondly, torches will always be useful, if you just make lanterns expensive (or inventory-intensive, by them taking one slot per lantern instead of one slot per 64) by comparison. Once you're really getting into mining, coal is unbelievably common-- certainly more common than, say, iron. Even if they went out in a day, I'd still carry a ton of torches with me so I could make a cheap path of temporary light for myself. I do think that torches should still remain after burning out (maybe with light around the intensity of a redstone torch, maybe a little dimmer?) so that I know where I've been, but I could cope even without that.
Quote from theicychameleon »
Quote from Jampp »
[] []
= 4x Lantern
[] []
Just think about how much resources this would require, including smelting the iron and glass that quite a bit of coal.
One piece of coal can make eight pieces of iron, or eight pieces of glass, or four pieces of iron and three of glass (taking into account that you lose one by taking the time with nothing cooking to swap materials). That means that if you're doing it properly, you can make, with that recipe, 8 lanterns with three pieces of coal. By the time you're digging up enough iron to be making a proper number of lanterns, that's hardly a lot. And in fact, technically you don't need coal to smelt iron ore and sand into ingots and glass, it's just more efficient in regard to inventory space and takes less time to collect (since you can do it at the same time as collecting iron, gold, redstone, and diamond).
For people who argue that we still need some kind of cheap landmark, I suggest redstone torches, or even just useless blocks that you wouldn't expect to find in a cave, like, say, cloth.
As someone else said, lava is also a permanent, if dangerous, source of light. And you can relocate it with just a bucket and a hole to dump into.
Now, I'm going to mention something that I've seen in another thread. Movable light (as opposed to replaceable light) is not feasible. The way light works for now, movable light would cause a TON of lag because the game would have to re-render the light every time you move to a new block. It'd have to both delete the old light and add the new light every time.
I don't care one way or another about oil as long as it's at least half as common as underground water springs. I assume you'd move more slowly than water, but faster than lava when in it, and probably drown faster, if not suffocate (as if in a solid block) when submerged in it. I know one person mentioned, in another thread, using slime balls to fuel lanterns, but slimes would have to be far more common (unless I'm wrong about small slimes at least theoretically appearing in peaceful) in order for that to work on its own. Maybe both oil and slime balls could work as fuel? I do think that lanterns should only require one bucket of oil (or one slime ball?) to work indefinitely, if it's required at all, though if oil is common enough it might not matter (and maybe if it was limited, it might present an interesting challenge to force the player to limit the size of their base until they can find oil more quickly). I do think lanterns should at least last a couple weeks on one helping.
However, there's one question I have about finite torches. If this happens, what would happen if you took a torch? Would you get a non-stackable torch with a durability bar, like tools? Or would you get a full torch back? Or would you get nothing back at all? If I had to come up with a really quick solution for this with minimal changing of the game's coding, I'd say a used torch would have a chance based on how long it's been out to either give the torch back, or not give the torch back-- or maybe it'd either always or never give a torch back with no regard to the time it's been out, depending on Notch's mood when he codes it in. Obviously, I think that once it's completely burnt out the torch shouldn't be returned when you destroy it.
Vote yes on finite torches. Increase the complexity of the game. It's a good thing.
Having lanterns burn oil defeats the point of them being permanent light sources.
I would also say that torches burning out in your mines, leaving dark areas, is a good thing. AS it is, it is not hard for mines to be perfectly safe.
If your mine starts in your house, it is easy to go the entire game(once you get your first torch) without being exposed to a single enemy. Making mines potentially dangerous would encourage more advanced tactics
Water + Torch + Sand traps
Did you find a light-grey block around sand that dropped four light-grey blobs when punched? That's called Clay.
But get lanterns in and torches limited first. After that, you can continue to mess with the system. Small steps.
No, PLEASE NO.
We only need two types of light sources.. The torches and the lanterns. One that runs out, and one that never does.
BAM! Problem solved.
Yes don't overcomplicate things.
Torches shouldn't be able to stay up FOREVER.
But i do think they should start fadeing to give you a indication before they completely expire.
(Example; Each day the light will grow darker and darker untill its all used up 3-4days)
Also with the new lantern's you could possible be able to create 2 types of them.
Regular latern (Lights a slightly bigger area then the torch and last FOREVER.)
Super latern(Light's a area 2x bigger then a regular latern and last's FOREVER.)
Also mabye the Super Latern could damage the NPC's/BOT's?
I play on hard, and my mines are always safe. Lighting up every tunnel you make is trivial. It is simple to light up caves as you explore. It may not be perfectly safe, but it can easily be 99% safe.
Well, now lanterns will be the only lasting defense against mobs in the game. Its not like the role is being removed, just shifted to something non-trivial. They don't need to be hideously expensive; just non-trivial so you can't easily spam lanterns in every tunnel you see. It shouldn't be hard to have a cost that makes it affordable to light up your base, and other key locations, without making them practical for complete mine coverage.
Yes, the change will make the game that much harder. Yes, it will shift the dynamics a bit. But both of these are in much-needed ways.
Lanterns could be made with Oil, but never use up the Oil. I have heard of lanterns that use oil for weeks without having to be refilled.
Finally, one of my ideas was a fireplace. Also infinite, a fireplace creates enough light to fill a 16x16c5 square or something, and would be used primarily in houses. It would also cost a LOT.
I am a Dragon, writing the tale of the world that has been, will be, and is. Due to the forum having a URL restriction, if you wish to see my full list of work, please refer to my signature in the now-dead TGO forums Here: http://thegoldenorder.forumotion.com/t261-server-downtime
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29817
But let me think
Lantern which will possibly include glass which is hard to get on the first day where there is an uber need of light for any type of base is better than infinite burning torches which are available on the go and are a must when mining ?
I'd go with placeable toches and carryable lanterns,both infinite
Torches should be infinite but with reduced lighting whereas a lantern would be infinite and carryable AND would produce enough light that a lantern could light up a 9x9 house too.
That would be totally any effort for getting lantern
Use for different variety of food
Now check out others suggestions
Climbing your @$$ off in minecraft
You can still light your house with torches in the beginning. You'll just want to replace them with lanterns once you can make them. Besides, glass is often easier to get than coal. Part of point of finite torches is so you can't just light up the entire known world and be safe. Making lanterns carryable and torches not doesn't even make sense.
Notch want's to add more liquids. So why not an oil of some sort?
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Secondly, torches will always be useful, if you just make lanterns expensive (or inventory-intensive, by them taking one slot per lantern instead of one slot per 64) by comparison. Once you're really getting into mining, coal is unbelievably common-- certainly more common than, say, iron. Even if they went out in a day, I'd still carry a ton of torches with me so I could make a cheap path of temporary light for myself. I do think that torches should still remain after burning out (maybe with light around the intensity of a redstone torch, maybe a little dimmer?) so that I know where I've been, but I could cope even without that.
One piece of coal can make eight pieces of iron, or eight pieces of glass, or four pieces of iron and three of glass (taking into account that you lose one by taking the time with nothing cooking to swap materials). That means that if you're doing it properly, you can make, with that recipe, 8 lanterns with three pieces of coal. By the time you're digging up enough iron to be making a proper number of lanterns, that's hardly a lot. And in fact, technically you don't need coal to smelt iron ore and sand into ingots and glass, it's just more efficient in regard to inventory space and takes less time to collect (since you can do it at the same time as collecting iron, gold, redstone, and diamond).
For people who argue that we still need some kind of cheap landmark, I suggest redstone torches, or even just useless blocks that you wouldn't expect to find in a cave, like, say, cloth.
As someone else said, lava is also a permanent, if dangerous, source of light. And you can relocate it with just a bucket and a hole to dump into.
Now, I'm going to mention something that I've seen in another thread. Movable light (as opposed to replaceable light) is not feasible. The way light works for now, movable light would cause a TON of lag because the game would have to re-render the light every time you move to a new block. It'd have to both delete the old light and add the new light every time.
I don't care one way or another about oil as long as it's at least half as common as underground water springs. I assume you'd move more slowly than water, but faster than lava when in it, and probably drown faster, if not suffocate (as if in a solid block) when submerged in it. I know one person mentioned, in another thread, using slime balls to fuel lanterns, but slimes would have to be far more common (unless I'm wrong about small slimes at least theoretically appearing in peaceful) in order for that to work on its own. Maybe both oil and slime balls could work as fuel? I do think that lanterns should only require one bucket of oil (or one slime ball?) to work indefinitely, if it's required at all, though if oil is common enough it might not matter (and maybe if it was limited, it might present an interesting challenge to force the player to limit the size of their base until they can find oil more quickly). I do think lanterns should at least last a couple weeks on one helping.
However, there's one question I have about finite torches. If this happens, what would happen if you took a torch? Would you get a non-stackable torch with a durability bar, like tools? Or would you get a full torch back? Or would you get nothing back at all? If I had to come up with a really quick solution for this with minimal changing of the game's coding, I'd say a used torch would have a chance based on how long it's been out to either give the torch back, or not give the torch back-- or maybe it'd either always or never give a torch back with no regard to the time it's been out, depending on Notch's mood when he codes it in. Obviously, I think that once it's completely burnt out the torch shouldn't be returned when you destroy it.
Vote yes on finite torches. Increase the complexity of the game. It's a good thing.