Guess people can't really see the joke in posts like these, heh.
I kinda fail to see that considering the default mode is called survival mode and there are already established game balance concepts for it. Creative mode, yes. But survival mode is only a sandbox game to an extent.
Not saying I agree with the changes or not, I just want to point that out.
so, if Im surviving I shouldnt do it the easiest most efficient way? im supposed to struggle and dangle from a brink of death and failure? lol
So, you seriously think the ONLY purpose of engineering is to get unlimited quantities of resources intended to be limiting, while AFK? That's kind of sad.
I could engineer a fancy 9x9 piston door.
Or I could place a wooden door.
I could engineer a railway system with fancy destination switching.
Or I could hop on my horse.
Seems like the only use of engineering that actually rewards you in a significant way is the one that Mojang is actively attempting to weed out.
Edit : Ah it was a joke... nice avatar by the way.
Also as a counter argument to the joke.....
If the server allowed very very advanced farms such as that iron farm then you should find another server that has those kind of things banned.
Once I quit a server I'd been on for several months and was the mayor of a large town of, because they banned iron farms. Not gold farms, not beacon farms, not EXP farms, just iron farms.
Now, not only are iron farms not as good, I'll now run into servers that ban them more often because now the only good workaround directly contributes to lag.
Now, not only are iron farms not as good, I'll now run into servers that ban them more often because now the only good workaround directly contributes to lag.
Looks like Mojang made a mistake.... but wait... Do iron golems lag more than other mob farms or what else?
Yes, indeed. But I agree with the OP - Mojang has really screwed up with their logic on this matter by nerfing iron and gold farms, which has done little but annoy redstoners and people that build these. I'm butthurt myself because I built an Iron Trench that may not work at all in 1.8 if village chaining is removed. If it does still work, I will have to stand AFK near a lag-causing egg farm, throwing them at golems to push them into lava, tricking the game into thinking they were killed by me.
Mojang has really stuffed up on this snapshot. It's worse than the poorly thought out chicken jockeys.
@Zeno410:
So I can't have an iron pickaxe, an iron sword, and some armor when I want to go caving - just exploring, not trying to strip-mine the area for resources?
I'm not the greatest twitch-player out there. Sometimes a creeper manages to take out me and my stuff. When I respawn, with my five minutes to run back there and maybe get some stuff back, I should pull out my backup gear that I... don't have because I haven't stockpiled 29 iron ingots ready to craft an entire set of gear which I shouldn't need unless... well, that's a second time I died going back into that cave because I really want to collect my diamonds (which I've randomly stumbled across) before they despawn, and now the time-crunch is going to be really harsh.
The fact that I'm not overly intrigued by repetitive mining means I can't have gear? Maybe it seems fair to you that I have to do the theoretically-optional part of the game which I dislike for 'balance' reasons, but I'd rather not have to mod my game or resort to cheats to do what my simple automation should handle.
One of the first things I make is a cobblestone generator. It's cheap and dirty, and near to a small (manual) tree farm it gives me stone tools - plus I don't have to strip-mine anywhere to get the rock to make whatever I want. I spend most of my time completely unarmored because I've yet to build a semi-auto cow-farm in a survival world, trading has been prohibitively limited, and I can't really justify putting my bits of iron into things that I don't _need_ to go on exploring, gathering fun things, and building. An iron farm, even a simple one, lets me have a renewable resource to pour into building non-requisite armor and tools (iron shovels are very nice if you want to do some legit landscaping) because I know I'm getting more even when I spend the next week landscaping, building my castle, tending the grass that I'm manually importing to the chosen area of my mushroom biome because I've yet to have silk-touch.... You know, not getting more iron.
And have you built a simple double-platform golem-spawner on Survival before? It's an accomplishment. It's something that you do for the payoff, you maybe die a few times in the process, and you actually get to look at it and be proud that you put the thing together, it works, and now you have a reward from it - a source of iron other than digging all over the place.
One of the things I liked about getting into Minecraft was that I didn't have to be in a freaking sim. If I want to spend practically all of my time maintaining a farm, digging for treasure, or really doing any one element of Minecraft, I can find a better game to let me do that one thing. I want to not have to do any one task because somebody has decided that people who work the system need to be forced to grind for it. Grinding is the worst part of gaming. Let me just play.
To OP, I clap. Awesome job with this thread and explaining to people why automation is amazing.
Now to my statement:
There are two main kinds of Minecraft players: the old hipster alpha players and the new 1.5 redstoning guys. I'd classify myself as a redstoner, because that's what I love to do in this game, but it seems like Mojang is attempting to make those first people who bought the game happier for nostalgia reasons, when in reality, these are the same people holding the game back from its nearly endless potential. Automation is what makes Minecraft what it is for me. I understand that the game is a sandbox, but that's what does it for me. People don't have to build these epic farms and do these epic things to make themselves feel like they've accomplished something with more work. These people who say iron farms and gold farms are "cheaty" and shouldn't be in Minecraft are living in a cave hole, because what makes Minecraft the great game that it is: the sandbox aspect. And then when they see the great creations that us redstoning people make, they become snobby and whine about not doing things not being "legit", when in truth, the most popular and most raved about things in the Minecraft community require redstone and automation. Look at Docm77, look at Etho, look at the Zipkrowd crew, look at HermitCraft, and look at the countless other popular youtubers and youtube groups. Redstone is the new age of Minecraft now. Automation in general is the new age of Minecraft.
So all of you hipster old alpha players need to understand that Minecraft has changed for the better. Go play beta 1.7.3 if you want to play legit or whatever. And Mojang, stop listening to these people who have no room for change. Redstone and Automation are the best things that ever happened to Minecraft, and breaking this amazing part ofm the game down to shambles slowly is terrible for not only 1.8, but the future of Minecraft.
You know, they could appease both sides pretty easily...
Additional game settings to turn off portal/hut/village-spawns (pigman/witch/igolem farms) would create old-school 'legit' worlds or allow redstone monstrosities depending on what the players want. For the true hardcore 'old-school' players, maybe even a setting to just turn off redstone current.
Toss those options on, and you don't need to 'fix' anything. It's an option for those who want it, and can be removed by those who don't.
Might even be cool for Adventure maps - you could turn Redstone off and have completing a certain task run the script to enable it, thus bringing the magic of redstone to the world.
You know, they could appease both sides pretty easily...
Additional game settings to turn off portal/hut/village-spawns (pigman/witch/igolem farms) would create old-school 'legit' worlds or allow redstone monstrosities depending on what the players want. For the true hardcore 'old-school' players, maybe even a setting to just turn off redstone current.
Toss those options on, and you don't need to 'fix' anything. It's an option for those who want it, and can be removed by those who don't.
Might even be cool for Adventure maps - you could turn Redstone off and have completing a certain task run the script to enable it, thus bringing the magic of redstone to the world.
@Zeno410:
So I can't have an iron pickaxe, an iron sword, and some armor when I want to go caving - just exploring, not trying to strip-mine the area for resources?
I'm not the greatest twitch-player out there. Sometimes a creeper manages to take out me and my stuff. When I respawn, with my five minutes to run back there and maybe get some stuff back, I should pull out my backup gear that I... don't have because I haven't stockpiled 29 iron ingots ready to craft an entire set of gear which I shouldn't need unless... well, that's a second time I died going back into that cave because I really want to collect my diamonds (which I've randomly stumbled across) before they despawn, and now the time-crunch is going to be really harsh.
It's a game; if you want the treats you have to earn them. It doesn't take much skill to get 29 iron on average before a creeper bags you. If you're really bad at caving AND you just can't stand a minecraft day or two mining - well, then you haven't earned going caving in full iron armor. Go in leather, or do something else. You don't *have* to have full iron to go caving - lots of people like to get started by caving.
If you don't want to meet the game standards, fine, cheat in your iron.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Version-switching quickly becomes unsatisfactory when you want to play with all the biomes and blocks. A few switches to allow you to make your world suit your playstyle would be far superior - especially going forward, where things will get further advanced but you'd lose out on everything that you want if you play a version that suits the no-redstone mindset.
It's a game; if you want the treats you have to earn them.
>snip<
If you don't want to meet the game standards, fine, cheat in your iron.
And I don't earn my treats by going through the trouble of setting up a moderately-complex factory to produce an amount of iron which you claim is easy to get anyways? I met the game-standards, and now people want the rules to be changed so that I don't, merely because what I do doesn't suit their idea of what should be on their server. I didn't have to cheat, and part of the fun is getting to the point where I feel like I can afford to throw away my iron without cheating.
Do you know how much iron a decent iron-farm with simple sorting for the flowers and ingots takes? Mine uses ten hoppers, four trapped chests, and two pistons when I put in kill-switch to turn off the lava-blade - and I make a cheap iron-farm. I need almost a full stack of iron to start building the iron farm. Hoarding that whilst also making iron picks (want rare ores), shears (want bed), flint&steel (nether portal), and all the other goodies you want right away (buckets, at least) takes time, planning, and patience. And after I've gone through all that - plus the effort of actually building a floating double-platform with special village-casing, I should now modify what gives me maybe two stacks of iron in an hour to cause lag so that I can get XP and more stacks of iron?
I'm playing 'wrong' by setting up a farm to get what I don't want to grind for? Okay. By that standard, you don't get to trade with villagers, plants can only grow through the application of bonemeal so that they need to properly be tended, animals can only grow and regain their wool through being fed, no block should change in any way without player/mob-interaction, and no block should give a drop unless it's destroyed by the player. You use all sorts of in-built automated processes, and the one I'm working with actually requires tons more effort on the player's part to make work. 'Earn' your 'treats.'
This random 'fix' for farms is exactly that reasonable.
I don't think automation is horrible and terrible and cheating and stuff, but I do think it's better to get resources on your own. For trivial things like food, I guess it's better to have an automation, but for iron? Gold? No thanks, I'll go mining.
And, again, why should we be pressured to make the same choice? For the same effect:
Lapis Lazuli and Emeralds can be traded for. Thus, all naturally-occurring Lapis Lazuli and Emeralds will be removed next release. You have to trade like all the other traders already!
Gold can be gained by pigman-farming. Thus, gold shall no longer naturally-generate. You may only get it from slaying pigmen - farmed or free-range. This resource needs to require killing things to get it.
Pumpkin seeds can be found in dungeons. Thus, they shall no longer appear anywhere naturally. If you're not going through dungeon-chests looking for pumpkin seeds, you don't deserve them.
It's silly. You're not supposed to be hemmed into doing it one way in a sandbox game.
i know this is satire, but i do honestly disagree, and partially agree, farms at the level people tend to do them are absurd, i belive none of the below mobs should be viable to farm.
- endermen
- the wither
- wither skeletons (i understand why people farm these, the drop rate needs a large increase, like, 8% drop chance)
- the enderdragon (already impossible)
- villagers
- iron golems
- blazes
- ghasts (already impossible)
any other mobs i am more than okay with people farming, the ones above just seem extremely abusive due to the rewards, and in the case of iron and villager farms, i believe are abusive to an extreme level, mostly because they are villagers.
and also, the thing you said about working hard to build the factory, i agree.
but even on our own suggestions forum, suggesting things that are rare or hard to do but still overpowered is highly frowned upon and bashed, and yes, a 100% infinite, mostly automatic source of ores that were always meant to be mined IS overpowered.
Ghasts are not completely impossible, they are automaticly farmable in theory. (But I have only seen videos about farms built in creative or on top of the nether bedrock)
http://www.midworldmc.com/members/
I could engineer a fancy 9x9 piston door.
Or I could place a wooden door.
I could engineer a railway system with fancy destination switching.
Or I could hop on my horse.
Seems like the only use of engineering that actually rewards you in a significant way is the one that Mojang is actively attempting to weed out.
Also as a counter argument to the joke.....
If the server allowed very very advanced farms such as that iron farm then you should find another server that has those kind of things banned.
Cold. Hard. Logic.
Once I quit a server I'd been on for several months and was the mayor of a large town of, because they banned iron farms. Not gold farms, not beacon farms, not EXP farms, just iron farms.
Now, not only are iron farms not as good, I'll now run into servers that ban them more often because now the only good workaround directly contributes to lag.
Looks like Mojang made a mistake.... but wait... Do iron golems lag more than other mob farms or what else?
I can make melon farms that lag more than iron farms do.
...but that's just like, my opinion, man.
Mojang has really stuffed up on this snapshot. It's worse than the poorly thought out chicken jockeys.
So -
The satisfaction of solving an interesting intellectual challenge - doesn't matter to you.
The ability to make attractive designs and buildings - doesn't matter to you.
Impressing others with clever designs - doesn't matter to you.
Reducing repetitive tasks like sorting and transport - doesn't matter to you.
Increased supplies of food, leather, wool, paper, and many others - doesn't matter to you.
The ONLY thing that you value is getting balance-breaking quantities of resources intended to be highly limiting in the game.
Got it. I'm sure Mojang will consider the value of players with such value systems in their decision.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I sense much sarcasm. Well done.
If there isn't any then okay then.
Venit, quessit, induravit.
So I can't have an iron pickaxe, an iron sword, and some armor when I want to go caving - just exploring, not trying to strip-mine the area for resources?
I'm not the greatest twitch-player out there. Sometimes a creeper manages to take out me and my stuff. When I respawn, with my five minutes to run back there and maybe get some stuff back, I should pull out my backup gear that I... don't have because I haven't stockpiled 29 iron ingots ready to craft an entire set of gear which I shouldn't need unless... well, that's a second time I died going back into that cave because I really want to collect my diamonds (which I've randomly stumbled across) before they despawn, and now the time-crunch is going to be really harsh.
The fact that I'm not overly intrigued by repetitive mining means I can't have gear? Maybe it seems fair to you that I have to do the theoretically-optional part of the game which I dislike for 'balance' reasons, but I'd rather not have to mod my game or resort to cheats to do what my simple automation should handle.
One of the first things I make is a cobblestone generator. It's cheap and dirty, and near to a small (manual) tree farm it gives me stone tools - plus I don't have to strip-mine anywhere to get the rock to make whatever I want. I spend most of my time completely unarmored because I've yet to build a semi-auto cow-farm in a survival world, trading has been prohibitively limited, and I can't really justify putting my bits of iron into things that I don't _need_ to go on exploring, gathering fun things, and building. An iron farm, even a simple one, lets me have a renewable resource to pour into building non-requisite armor and tools (iron shovels are very nice if you want to do some legit landscaping) because I know I'm getting more even when I spend the next week landscaping, building my castle, tending the grass that I'm manually importing to the chosen area of my mushroom biome because I've yet to have silk-touch.... You know, not getting more iron.
And have you built a simple double-platform golem-spawner on Survival before? It's an accomplishment. It's something that you do for the payoff, you maybe die a few times in the process, and you actually get to look at it and be proud that you put the thing together, it works, and now you have a reward from it - a source of iron other than digging all over the place.
One of the things I liked about getting into Minecraft was that I didn't have to be in a freaking sim. If I want to spend practically all of my time maintaining a farm, digging for treasure, or really doing any one element of Minecraft, I can find a better game to let me do that one thing. I want to not have to do any one task because somebody has decided that people who work the system need to be forced to grind for it. Grinding is the worst part of gaming. Let me just play.
Now to my statement:
There are two main kinds of Minecraft players: the old hipster alpha players and the new 1.5 redstoning guys. I'd classify myself as a redstoner, because that's what I love to do in this game, but it seems like Mojang is attempting to make those first people who bought the game happier for nostalgia reasons, when in reality, these are the same people holding the game back from its nearly endless potential. Automation is what makes Minecraft what it is for me. I understand that the game is a sandbox, but that's what does it for me. People don't have to build these epic farms and do these epic things to make themselves feel like they've accomplished something with more work. These people who say iron farms and gold farms are "cheaty" and shouldn't be in Minecraft are living in a cave hole, because what makes Minecraft the great game that it is: the sandbox aspect. And then when they see the great creations that us redstoning people make, they become snobby and whine about not doing things not being "legit", when in truth, the most popular and most raved about things in the Minecraft community require redstone and automation. Look at Docm77, look at Etho, look at the Zipkrowd crew, look at HermitCraft, and look at the countless other popular youtubers and youtube groups. Redstone is the new age of Minecraft now. Automation in general is the new age of Minecraft.
So all of you hipster old alpha players need to understand that Minecraft has changed for the better. Go play beta 1.7.3 if you want to play legit or whatever. And Mojang, stop listening to these people who have no room for change. Redstone and Automation are the best things that ever happened to Minecraft, and breaking this amazing part ofm the game down to shambles slowly is terrible for not only 1.8, but the future of Minecraft.
I'm out.
Additional game settings to turn off portal/hut/village-spawns (pigman/witch/igolem farms) would create old-school 'legit' worlds or allow redstone monstrosities depending on what the players want. For the true hardcore 'old-school' players, maybe even a setting to just turn off redstone current.
Toss those options on, and you don't need to 'fix' anything. It's an option for those who want it, and can be removed by those who don't.
Might even be cool for Adventure maps - you could turn Redstone off and have completing a certain task run the script to enable it, thus bringing the magic of redstone to the world.
That's what the version switching is for...
It's a game; if you want the treats you have to earn them. It doesn't take much skill to get 29 iron on average before a creeper bags you. If you're really bad at caving AND you just can't stand a minecraft day or two mining - well, then you haven't earned going caving in full iron armor. Go in leather, or do something else. You don't *have* to have full iron to go caving - lots of people like to get started by caving.
If you don't want to meet the game standards, fine, cheat in your iron.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Version-switching quickly becomes unsatisfactory when you want to play with all the biomes and blocks. A few switches to allow you to make your world suit your playstyle would be far superior - especially going forward, where things will get further advanced but you'd lose out on everything that you want if you play a version that suits the no-redstone mindset.
And I don't earn my treats by going through the trouble of setting up a moderately-complex factory to produce an amount of iron which you claim is easy to get anyways? I met the game-standards, and now people want the rules to be changed so that I don't, merely because what I do doesn't suit their idea of what should be on their server. I didn't have to cheat, and part of the fun is getting to the point where I feel like I can afford to throw away my iron without cheating.
Do you know how much iron a decent iron-farm with simple sorting for the flowers and ingots takes? Mine uses ten hoppers, four trapped chests, and two pistons when I put in kill-switch to turn off the lava-blade - and I make a cheap iron-farm. I need almost a full stack of iron to start building the iron farm. Hoarding that whilst also making iron picks (want rare ores), shears (want bed), flint&steel (nether portal), and all the other goodies you want right away (buckets, at least) takes time, planning, and patience. And after I've gone through all that - plus the effort of actually building a floating double-platform with special village-casing, I should now modify what gives me maybe two stacks of iron in an hour to cause lag so that I can get XP and more stacks of iron?
I'm playing 'wrong' by setting up a farm to get what I don't want to grind for? Okay. By that standard, you don't get to trade with villagers, plants can only grow through the application of bonemeal so that they need to properly be tended, animals can only grow and regain their wool through being fed, no block should change in any way without player/mob-interaction, and no block should give a drop unless it's destroyed by the player. You use all sorts of in-built automated processes, and the one I'm working with actually requires tons more effort on the player's part to make work. 'Earn' your 'treats.'
This random 'fix' for farms is exactly that reasonable.
Lapis Lazuli and Emeralds can be traded for. Thus, all naturally-occurring Lapis Lazuli and Emeralds will be removed next release. You have to trade like all the other traders already!
Gold can be gained by pigman-farming. Thus, gold shall no longer naturally-generate. You may only get it from slaying pigmen - farmed or free-range. This resource needs to require killing things to get it.
Pumpkin seeds can be found in dungeons. Thus, they shall no longer appear anywhere naturally. If you're not going through dungeon-chests looking for pumpkin seeds, you don't deserve them.
It's silly. You're not supposed to be hemmed into doing it one way in a sandbox game.
Ghasts are not completely impossible, they are automaticly farmable in theory. (But I have only seen videos about farms built in creative or on top of the nether bedrock)