This ruins builds, especially Iron Trenches/Foundries that people work so hard on.
I think I'll build an iron trench or something similar in the near future so I can stock up on iron blocks. I use it for decoration and I reeeally don't want to mine out all the iron I need for hoppers. A stack of hoppers is a chore, over six thousand of them is soul breaking.
The problem with these nerfs is that they limit the endgame. Most players don't have the resources to build huge iron farms until after they have completed the game. Mojang should be encouraging players to enjoy the game after beating the dragon, rather than encouraging players not to enjoy the game.
There's two arguments that I laugh at when I read this thread:
1) This will reduce lag.
No it won't. People will just let the golems stack then wack them with a sword,
Actually, the whole business of a 10-person village being able to fill a room with an infinite number of golems is a) totally ridiculous and b ) ripe for exploits, and not just the iron farm. It needs to get fixed, regardless of what happens to AFK farms. Several ideas:
1) Make golems regenerate slowly, and then make then spawn VERY slowly - like one an hour. That way, they'll survive normal zombie fights, generate roughly at the rate it takes to build a real town, but come out too slowly for most exploits.
2) Make golems "check in" with the nearest village all the time. If there's no nearest village, or if the nearest village has too many golems, despawn.
3) Tag golems with their home village. The village will never produce more golems than it' supposed to have, no matter where they go, until those golems die.
Actually, the whole business of a 10-person village being able to fill a room with an infinite number of golems is a) totally ridiculous and b ) ripe for exploits, and not just the iron farm. It needs to get fixed, regardless of what happens to AFK farms.
First the changes in 1.8 "fix" nothing.
Second there is nothing to fix in the first place because using redstone isn't an exploit!
There's two arguments that I laugh at when I read this thread:
1) This will reduce lag.
No it won't. People will just let the golems stack then wack them with a sword, or alter their mob farms then it's business as usual.
2) Automated farms are an abuse of the game mechanics.
This is a sandbox game. The entire point is to alter and manipulate your environment as you see fit. If you're having fun building mob grinders then the game is working as intended. This argument is just plain stupid.
What's the point of redstone if automation is 'cheating the game' and 'playing the game for you'?
Redstone is a huge component of the game. Every time Mojang makes a nerf like this, it becomes less 'worth it' to experience this huge portion of the game. If there were no way to farm anything, redstone would be virtually pointless in Survival, except maybe to move you from place to place
You say that an iron farm is cheaty and requires no work. For the iron foundry, you need one thousand doors. That's several Minecraft days worth of logging in a large forest with a diamond axe. Then you need iron, redstone, stone, quartz, and obsidian for the circuitry, among other things. Then you need to know how to arrange it all together without any mistakes. After that, you need to a very long time amassing a large amount of villagers(Upwards of forty) into two tiny glass tubes.
You still need to mine for diamonds, emeralds, lapis, redstone, coal, and gold
Farming requires ingenuity. They reward intelligence. Nerfing iron farms is analogous to saying work harder, not smarter! And that's just dumb.
Zeno, you can say automation is an exploit all you want, but that doesn't make it true.
Dinnerbone tried nerfing mob spawner xp farms (Like Blaze farms) awhile ago before scrapping the idea, I remember. Reason being that he did not like how some people thought xp farms were required to "play seriously".
The XP the spawned mobs give progressively decreases the more time you spend near the spawner while active. It's quite possible the idea may reappear at this point. Of course, this was back when the only way to get xp was to kill mobs.
Whoa. That illustrates the wrong way to go about designing a game. Does Dinnerbone realize why EXP farms are so popular in the first place?
It's because enchanting is so random, and it'll still be significantly random even after the 1.8 update. If people had total control over what enchantments they could get, then they wouldn't need to grind for them. They could select whatever they wanted, then go off into the world without a worry, and by the time their tools and armor are worn out, they'd have enough EXP to make a new set again. But because no player likes getting murdered due to being underequipped, they invent machines that allow them to spin the enchanting roulette as many times as their patience will allow. I don't think they like it anymore than Mojang does.
I'm rather disturbed by this idea that Mojang can somehow force players to play the game the way they want. That NEVER works, especially in a game where one of the big ideas behind it is that you can play it any way you want. If you want players to go outside more, you need to give them more reasons to do so, not take away their reasons for staying inside.
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Author of , Minecraft's most noteworthy Mega Man-themed resource pack!
Also the author of Tales from the Creature Keeper, a book series where humanity is long gone, but its successors, both domesticated and feral, could learn a lot from its legacy.
Whoa. That illustrates the wrong way to go about designing a game. Does Dinnerbone realize why EXP farms are so popular in the first place?
It's because enchanting is so random, and it'll still be significantly random even after the 1.8 update. If people had total control over what enchantments they could get, then they wouldn't need to grind for them. They could select whatever they wanted, then go off into the world without a worry, and by the time their tools and armor are worn out, they'd have enough EXP to make a new set again. But because no player likes getting murdered due to being underequipped, they invent machines that allow them to spin the enchanting roulette as many times as their patience will allow. I don't think they like it anymore than Mojang does.
I'm rather disturbed by this idea that Mojang can somehow force players to play the game the way they want. That NEVER works, especially in a game where one of the big ideas behind it is that you can play it any way you want. If you want players to go outside more, you need to give them more reasons to do so, not take away their reasons for staying inside.
Keep in mind though what he said was simply a product of the time. EXP back then was ONLY obtained from killing mobs. Not from mining, smelting, trading, fishing, breeding, etc. It was also when the maximum enchantment was level 50 rather than 30.
He was pretty right back than, grinding exp was really the only way to play seriously because of how tedious and long it was otherwise. His idea later evolved into simply giving exp for doing other things.
Keep in mind though what he said was simply a product of the time. EXP back then was ONLY obtained from killing mobs. Not from mining, smelting, trading, fishing, breeding, etc. It was also when the maximum enchantment was level 50 rather than 30.
It looks a little more sinister though in light of the recent updates to the game. I hope it's an idea that doesn't reappear in the future, but by now I'm wondering if it's a matter of "when", not "if". The modders are sure gonna be busy undoing these changes, provided they aren't too flustered to work on them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of , Minecraft's most noteworthy Mega Man-themed resource pack!
Also the author of Tales from the Creature Keeper, a book series where humanity is long gone, but its successors, both domesticated and feral, could learn a lot from its legacy.
I don't see why the all the hate on automation in the first place, it is the natural progression for a game like this. Look at the real world for example - first we needed to hunt and gather, then we learned how to farm and raise live stock, then we industrialized it so we could focus on other things without needing to worry about sustaining ourselves 24/7. - I for one fully consider it part of the game.
I will have to load up my island world and see how the update is affecting my golum farm, but if the only change is that you have to kill the golum your self instead of crushing them, it shouldn't be hampered in the slightest.
and as for enchanting goes, enchant books not equipment - with the anvil you can combine like enchants to make more powerful versions, and pick and choose which ones you want to put on your stuff.
I don't see why the all the hate on automation in the first place, it is the natural progression for a game like this. Look at the real world for example - first we needed to hunt and gather, then we learned how to farm and raise live stock, then we industrialized it so we could focus on other things without needing to worry about sustaining ourselves 24/7. - I for one fully consider it part of the game.
I will have to load up my island world and see how the update is affecting my golum farm, but if the only change is that you have to kill the golum your self instead of crushing them, it shouldn't be hampered in the slightest.
and as for enchanting goes, enchant books not equipment - with the anvil you can combine like enchants to make more powerful versions, and pick and choose which ones you want to put on your stuff.
I just checked my Island map (link in sig) where I have my Iron Farm built , and here go my findings. I had left that world while cranking out XP at the ol mob farm as to repair the Sharpness V, Looting III sword (made by enchanting books, and combining them before adding them to the sword), and the thing was lagging like all heck. I jumped down and started for the Iron farm, which was full to the brim with golums. I hopped on the pressure plate to crush them to death (about 60) - and no iron.
I went back to the house and grabbed a half slab, came back and replaced the pressure plate with it. by that time I had 2 more golums in there so I started poking at them with a torch, took 4 hits each to kill and I got 3 iron. Went and checked my infinite villager trading machine and sure enough it doesn't work as designed anymore. came back to the Iron farm to find 3 more golums, switch to the sword and killed each one in one hit and netted 10 more iron.
so it seems I will need a new system for villager trading, but Docm77's iron farm design is solid - just ignore the crusher and use a half slab where the pressure plate goes and you're set.... it will be a much bigger pain breeding the villagers to fill it, but otherwise you're good to go. no broken iron farms here, move along.
yes, but consider this, in real life, factories don't produce iron robots out of thin air to obtain iron from them, and we don't mass breed neanderthals with basic intelligence by tricking them to think there are enough homes for new children to obtain one that can produce resources out of thin air, and in real life, in real life, we wouldn't be able to keep what is practically a god trapped with a bit of fence and a tiny roof, in real life, machines and factories require maintenance near constantly, in real life, nobody ever made a slenderman-slaughterhouse, hell, notch himself said that endermen were meant to be feared and respected, not farmed like they were potatoes.
if you want to say "players should be able to do what they want" then it's easy, if you want to bring real life into the argument, it's real easy.
I assure you, if things in the real world worked the way they do in minecraft, we would be.
yes, but consider this, in real life, factories don't produce iron robots out of thin air to obtain iron from them, and we don't mass breed neanderthals with basic intelligence by tricking them to think there are enough homes for new children to obtain one that can produce resources out of thin air, and in real life, in real life, we wouldn't be able to keep what is practically a god trapped with a bit of fence and a tiny roof, in real life, machines and factories require maintenance near constantly, in real life, nobody ever made a slenderman-slaughterhouse, hell, notch himself said that endermen were meant to be feared and respected, not farmed like they were potatoes.
if you want to say "players should be able to do what they want" then it's easy, if you want to bring real life into the argument, it's real easy.
Sadly for you, your arguments don't work. The whole technology argument is a human species thing. Humans play minecraft, thus you see human type of progression. It's inevitable. We can't get rid of our humanity simply because we play a game. We as human like to progress and move forward and automate things to make things easier.
Your argument is taking things that exist in real life and don't exist in minecraft and vice versa. If things worked in real life, like they worked the way in minecraft, you can be 100% certain humans would do the same stuff in real life.
In other words, our argument works cause human interaction is part of minecraft.
Your argument doesn't work because non of which you mentioned is actually part of minecraft. Iron golems don't exist in real life. But if they did, of course we would use them in the same way. Slenderman don't exist in real life, but if they did in the same way enderman exist in minecraft, .. of course we would use them in the same way.
Basically, your argument is "because it doesn't exist in real life .. it shouldn't be possible" got news for you, we are not playing real life .. we are playing a game called minecraft. Huuuuuuuge difference.
So again I will say, your argument doesn't work. Please try again.
I hope you've all got your Looting III swords at the ready as you stand at your modified iron farms. Meanwhile, I'll be playing Minecraft.
Seriously though guys, this is only one change for the new update. Until we've seen the whole picture, just chill and enjoy what you have.
At least you have the chance to fill a few double chests with iron blocks before the update. I remember way back when we heard a rumour that torches wouldn't stay lit, and yeah I know that didn't pan out, but we endeavoured to adapt. Enjoy what you have, prepare for what is to come.
I hope you've all got your Looting III swords at the ready as you stand at your modified iron farms. Meanwhile, I'll be playing Minecraft.
Seriously though guys, this is only one change for the new update. Until we've seen the whole picture, just chill and enjoy what you have.
At least you have the chance to fill a few double chests with iron blocks before the update. I remember way back when we heard a rumour that torches wouldn't stay lit, and yeah I know that didn't pan out, but we endeavoured to adapt. Enjoy what you have, prepare for what is to come.
I think it was made so that Looting III swords are ineffective against Iron Golem drops, sadly for them.
Zeno, you can say automation is an exploit all you want, but that doesn't make it true.
I never said anything like that. I said automating production of valuable resources intended to be basically non-renewable is an exploit. Automated sorters aren't an exploit, automated armor deployers aren't an exploit, automated smelting isn't an exploit, automated food farming isn't an exploit, automated collectors aren't an exploit, automated transport isn't an exploit, automated minecart loading isn't an exploit, automated doors aren't an exploit, and automated lighting isn't an exploit. (no slight intended to dozens of other uses I didn't think of on the spot.)
Unlimited supplies of a valuable limited resources is an outrageous exploit. It's telling how much defenders of the practice have to distort what Mojang is actually doing (a VERY limited change; they're not even stopping SEMI-automated iron farms) and what people like me are saying. Fully automated iron farms are indefensible and even people who like it realize they have to distort the topic to sound reasonable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I hope you've all got your Looting III swords at the ready as you stand at your modified iron farms. Meanwhile, I'll be playing Minecraft.
Seriously though guys, this is only one change for the new update. Until we've seen the whole picture, just chill and enjoy what you have.
At least you have the chance to fill a few double chests with iron blocks before the update. I remember way back when we heard a rumour that torches wouldn't stay lit, and yeah I know that didn't pan out, but we endeavoured to adapt. Enjoy what you have, prepare for what is to come.
don't have to stand at my iron farm, I go about my normal stuff and it spawns and collects golums all on it's own - Just have to stop by once in a while to kill them so the game don't get laggy.
I still mine, I still go cave exploring, and I still kill plenty of mobs in the wild - I just don't have to worry about collecting food, Iron, arrows, gunpowder, potions, or xp for enchants - 20 minutes of hitting the farms and I'm off for some underground adventure or above ground building. That's why I automate. You don't want too, then don't - but that doesn't give you any right to look down on those of us that do.
I think I'll build an iron trench or something similar in the near future so I can stock up on iron blocks. I use it for decoration and I reeeally don't want to mine out all the iron I need for hoppers. A stack of hoppers is a chore, over six thousand of them is soul breaking.
Venit, quessit, induravit.
Praise be to Spode.
Actually, the whole business of a 10-person village being able to fill a room with an infinite number of golems is a) totally ridiculous and b ) ripe for exploits, and not just the iron farm. It needs to get fixed, regardless of what happens to AFK farms. Several ideas:
1) Make golems regenerate slowly, and then make then spawn VERY slowly - like one an hour. That way, they'll survive normal zombie fights, generate roughly at the rate it takes to build a real town, but come out too slowly for most exploits.
2) Make golems "check in" with the nearest village all the time. If there's no nearest village, or if the nearest village has too many golems, despawn.
3) Tag golems with their home village. The village will never produce more golems than it' supposed to have, no matter where they go, until those golems die.
1) could be combined with 2) or 3) as well.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
First the changes in 1.8 "fix" nothing.
Second there is nothing to fix in the first place because using redstone isn't an exploit!
Zeno, you can say automation is an exploit all you want, but that doesn't make it true.
Whoa. That illustrates the wrong way to go about designing a game. Does Dinnerbone realize why EXP farms are so popular in the first place?
It's because enchanting is so random, and it'll still be significantly random even after the 1.8 update. If people had total control over what enchantments they could get, then they wouldn't need to grind for them. They could select whatever they wanted, then go off into the world without a worry, and by the time their tools and armor are worn out, they'd have enough EXP to make a new set again. But because no player likes getting murdered due to being underequipped, they invent machines that allow them to spin the enchanting roulette as many times as their patience will allow. I don't think they like it anymore than Mojang does.
I'm rather disturbed by this idea that Mojang can somehow force players to play the game the way they want. That NEVER works, especially in a game where one of the big ideas behind it is that you can play it any way you want. If you want players to go outside more, you need to give them more reasons to do so, not take away their reasons for staying inside.
Also the author of Tales from the Creature Keeper, a book series where humanity is long gone, but its successors, both domesticated and feral, could learn a lot from its legacy.
Keep in mind though what he said was simply a product of the time. EXP back then was ONLY obtained from killing mobs. Not from mining, smelting, trading, fishing, breeding, etc. It was also when the maximum enchantment was level 50 rather than 30.
He was pretty right back than, grinding exp was really the only way to play seriously because of how tedious and long it was otherwise. His idea later evolved into simply giving exp for doing other things.
It looks a little more sinister though in light of the recent updates to the game. I hope it's an idea that doesn't reappear in the future, but by now I'm wondering if it's a matter of "when", not "if". The modders are sure gonna be busy undoing these changes, provided they aren't too flustered to work on them.
Also the author of Tales from the Creature Keeper, a book series where humanity is long gone, but its successors, both domesticated and feral, could learn a lot from its legacy.
Um i guess there's no point in making wooden tools to get started because thats really easy to do.
I will have to load up my island world and see how the update is affecting my golum farm, but if the only change is that you have to kill the golum your self instead of crushing them, it shouldn't be hampered in the slightest.
and as for enchanting goes, enchant books not equipment - with the anvil you can combine like enchants to make more powerful versions, and pick and choose which ones you want to put on your stuff.
My Island Adventure - http://www.minecraft...brief-tutorial/
me(red) playing UT2K4 - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Wz0DnP7wXnU
^ This Ladies and Gentlemen. This.
I went back to the house and grabbed a half slab, came back and replaced the pressure plate with it. by that time I had 2 more golums in there so I started poking at them with a torch, took 4 hits each to kill and I got 3 iron. Went and checked my infinite villager trading machine and sure enough it doesn't work as designed anymore. came back to the Iron farm to find 3 more golums, switch to the sword and killed each one in one hit and netted 10 more iron.
so it seems I will need a new system for villager trading, but Docm77's iron farm design is solid - just ignore the crusher and use a half slab where the pressure plate goes and you're set.... it will be a much bigger pain breeding the villagers to fill it, but otherwise you're good to go. no broken iron farms here, move along.
I assure you, if things in the real world worked the way they do in minecraft, we would be.
My Island Adventure - http://www.minecraft...brief-tutorial/
me(red) playing UT2K4 - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Wz0DnP7wXnU
Sadly for you, your arguments don't work. The whole technology argument is a human species thing. Humans play minecraft, thus you see human type of progression. It's inevitable. We can't get rid of our humanity simply because we play a game. We as human like to progress and move forward and automate things to make things easier.
Your argument is taking things that exist in real life and don't exist in minecraft and vice versa. If things worked in real life, like they worked the way in minecraft, you can be 100% certain humans would do the same stuff in real life.
In other words, our argument works cause human interaction is part of minecraft.
Your argument doesn't work because non of which you mentioned is actually part of minecraft. Iron golems don't exist in real life. But if they did, of course we would use them in the same way. Slenderman don't exist in real life, but if they did in the same way enderman exist in minecraft, .. of course we would use them in the same way.
Basically, your argument is "because it doesn't exist in real life .. it shouldn't be possible" got news for you, we are not playing real life .. we are playing a game called minecraft. Huuuuuuuge difference.
So again I will say, your argument doesn't work. Please try again.
Seriously though guys, this is only one change for the new update. Until we've seen the whole picture, just chill and enjoy what you have.
At least you have the chance to fill a few double chests with iron blocks before the update. I remember way back when we heard a rumour that torches wouldn't stay lit, and yeah I know that didn't pan out, but we endeavoured to adapt. Enjoy what you have, prepare for what is to come.
I think it was made so that Looting III swords are ineffective against Iron Golem drops, sadly for them.
http://jn.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/1viupt/please_dont_get_rid_of_the_automatic_aspect_of/
Really? Then some players have got a lot of preparing to do.
I never said anything like that. I said automating production of valuable resources intended to be basically non-renewable is an exploit. Automated sorters aren't an exploit, automated armor deployers aren't an exploit, automated smelting isn't an exploit, automated food farming isn't an exploit, automated collectors aren't an exploit, automated transport isn't an exploit, automated minecart loading isn't an exploit, automated doors aren't an exploit, and automated lighting isn't an exploit. (no slight intended to dozens of other uses I didn't think of on the spot.)
Unlimited supplies of a valuable limited resources is an outrageous exploit. It's telling how much defenders of the practice have to distort what Mojang is actually doing (a VERY limited change; they're not even stopping SEMI-automated iron farms) and what people like me are saying. Fully automated iron farms are indefensible and even people who like it realize they have to distort the topic to sound reasonable.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
don't have to stand at my iron farm, I go about my normal stuff and it spawns and collects golums all on it's own - Just have to stop by once in a while to kill them so the game don't get laggy.
I still mine, I still go cave exploring, and I still kill plenty of mobs in the wild - I just don't have to worry about collecting food, Iron, arrows, gunpowder, potions, or xp for enchants - 20 minutes of hitting the farms and I'm off for some underground adventure or above ground building. That's why I automate. You don't want too, then don't - but that doesn't give you any right to look down on those of us that do.
My Island Adventure - http://www.minecraft...brief-tutorial/
me(red) playing UT2K4 - http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Wz0DnP7wXnU