I stopped playing minecraft around 1.2 and recently came back and I am just appalled at how horrid the world generation is! I had to download 3rd party software (Amidst) to even find a seed that has the slightest bit of diversity and even then you have to keep trying seeds to find 2 very different biomes in a 4000 x 4000 area, 3 if you're very lucky.
Most sever worlds are 4000 to 10,000 blocks squared. Most 1.7 seeds have the same handful of biomes and their sub-biomes repeated for over a 10,000 squared area! Where is the diversity? This means that when you enter a biome the chances are very high that it will be that same biome all the way to the edge of the map and this is default seeds, not Large Biome!
The Problems with the 1.7 World Generator
1 - There's double, or even triple the number of temperate biomes, so chances are forests will end up being most of your map due to large numbers of them being grouped together. We need much more diversity.
2 - The size of the biomes are way too large. They are enormous.
3 - There's hardly any lakes. What we have now are inland seas. We need lakes too.
4 - There are no continents. The maps are pangeas.
The Changes from 1.6 to 1.7
*Take note of the ocean and continents in 1.6 and the pangea in 1.7.
(Exhibit 1) Comparing 1.6 Maps to 1.7 Maps
The biome sizes are actually the same in 1.6 and 1.7, but the reason why they seem larger in 1.7 is because with the new temperature system you are getting many of the same biome type clumping together when in 1.6 they would not have bordered each other.
The intention of the temperature system was to stop opposite biomes (ie. snow and desert) from bordering each other, but as an unintended consequence we have the clumping of many biomes of the same temperature.
If you compare the two maps above you can see this happening quite clearly in 1.7, but not in 1.6.
What the World Generator Creates in 1.7
*Take note of the rarity of jungles on both maps.
(Exhibit 2) 1.7 Endless Desert.
(Exhibit 3) 1.7 Giant Clumping Biomes of the Same Temperature.
How this Effects Exploration
Any map, at a sufficient scale will display a variety of biomes since Amidst will generate terrain endlessly. But does that variety actually translates in-game? More often than not, no.
Without knowing ahead of time exactly where the biomes you are looking for are, chances are very high you will be searching endlessly even if you are lucky enough to receive a diverse world. This is especially problematic if you play on a sever were the owner hasn't provided the seed.
This is forced exploration and exploration is now a pointless grind. Neither of which enhances game-play.
(Exhibit 4) Exploration Route and Distance
(Exhibit 5) The Map expanded on Amidst
(Exhibit 6) Exploration Route Imposed on the Amidst Map
The end result is being unable to find a single new biome that differs from biomes at the spawn point despite a large amount of exploration.
The Solution
A balance between gigantic clusters of similar biomes that we have now and the complete randomness from beta would be great along with more options and extend flexibility for the terrain generator.
They've made a great start with the different world types and such, it would just be nice to see them extend that flexibility even further. It would be great too if they modularized the terrain generator to the point where it would be easy to offer the prior version terrain generators as special options, taking into account the changes required to deal with new ores and flowers etc (which are a different layer of generation anyway).
Compatible with Minecraft Versions 1.7.2 and Later
(Optional Cave Mod Included)
No more enormous biomes and endless searching for a specific biome. The days of travelling 1000's of blocks to find different temperature zones are over! This mod fixes the biome clumping problem. Just install the mod and select the "Random Biome" option from the options menu when generating a new world.
This mod removes the biome clustering by temperature in 1.7 and instead distributes biomes randomly, as they were in 1.6.4 and earlier, so you can have hot and cold biomes next to each other (biome size and terrain generation is otherwise default). In addition, a new world type is added (Random Biomes, using ID 15), so you can still play default/large biomes/amplified worlds in the modded game without worrying about messing them up.
Installation is extremely easy! Comparison maps are below (Both are seed -123775873255737467).
(Modded Map Picture 1.7.4) Click to See Full-Size Map
Seed -123775873255737467 (29 biomes in total)
Here's a rendering of a world with a filled out level 3 map (up to about 600 blocks from spawn) *Notice there is Mesa, Mesa Bryce, and Ice Spike biomes
Here a list of all the biomes that are found in that small area:
"Birch Forest," "Birch Forest Hills," "Desert," "Desert Hills," "Extreme Hills," "Extreme Hills +," "Forest," "Forest Hills," "Frozen River," "Ice Plains," "Ice Mountains (Spike)," "Jungle," "JungleEdge," "JungleHills," "Mega Taiga," "Mega Taiga Hills," "Mesa," "Mesa (Bryce)," "Mesa Plateau F," "Plains," "River," "Roofed Forest," "Savanna," "Savanna Hills," "Sunflower Plains," "Swampland," "Swampland M," "Taiga," "Taiga Hills,"
(Vanilla Minecraft Map Picture 1.7.4) Click to See Full-Size Map
Seed -123775873255737467 (Same seed as the above photo) (16 biomes in total)
Here's a rendering of a world with a filled out level 3 map (up to about 600 blocks from spawn)
There are giant clumps of biomes from the same temperature group and there is not nearly as many different biomes. Most of the biomes listed are the hills variation of other biomes on the map and there are no cold biomes.
Here a list of all the biomes that are found in that area:
"Birch Forest," "Birch Forest Hills," "Desert," "Extreme Hills," "Extreme Hills +," "Forest," "Forest Hills," "Jungle," "Jungle Hills," "Jungle Edge," "Plains," "River," "Roofed Forest," "Savanna," "Savanna Plateau," "Swampland"
(TheMasterCaver Mods) For Cave, Ravine, Terrain Height, and No Void Fog
If you enjoy the TheMasterCaver's Random Biomes Mod, here's some links to his other works.
Thanks, but I saw that already. It's a 4000 x 4000 area. Some biomes go on for 1000 blocks or more! This isn't fun to explore. The biomes need to be much smaller and generate a better variety of different biomes in seeds.
This seed has the variety, but you still have to travel 1000's of blocks to get to a new biome.
Why do you say this as if it's a fact? It's an opinion.
Don't go all out fanboy on me now.
I gave several reasons for why I don't like the new world generation. If you like it then that's fine, but from my perspective if you've seen one mesa hills biome, you've seen every mesa hills biome. I don't need to see the same biome for 1000's of blocks straight and I've been looking on Amidst and it is quite common for desert and forest biomes to run for 10,000 blocks or more. That's horribly redundant and excessive.
A similar thing happens with snow biomes, but they are not as common. Jungles are now quite rare. This is unfortunate because they are great to start off next to. There's a lot of food and supplies that can only be found in jungles.
A lot of other people like it. I don't really see what the problem with it is. If you have to travel more, so be it. Have to get used to the changes that happen in Minecraft, whether you like them or not.
A lot of other people like it. I don't really see what the problem with it. If you have to travel more, so be it. Have to get used to the changes that happen in Minecraft, whether you like them or not.
Most sever owners don't have the ability to allow their players to travel over 10,000 blocks in one direction to find new biomes due to the amount of lag that's caused. Even if they could, with the current generations there is no guarantee that they will even be able to find a new biome in 10,000 blocks!
The only thing I can recommend is using smoother generation mods or a small biomes mod to generate the world you would use on your server, then import it into the server.
The only thing I can recommend is using smoother generation mods or a small biomes mod to generate the world you would use on your server, then import it into the server.
Most sever owners don't have the ability to allow their players to travel over 10,000 blocks in one direction to find new biomes due to the amount of lag that's caused. Even if they could, with the current generations there is no guarantee that they will even be able to find a new biome in 10,000 blocks!
I had a desert/savanna region generated in 1.7.4 roughly 10,000 x 10,000 blocks (here). And this on Default. Multiply that by 4 if you set it to Large Biomes. The current generator is that insane.
However this is virtually the first instance of the full temperature model implementation in Minecraft. I'm pretty sure (err, I'm hopeful) they will tweak it in future updates and out of the current idiocy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I was trying to think of a signature and this is what came up.
Most sever owners don't have the ability to allow their players to travel over 10,000 blocks in one direction to find new biomes due to the amount of lag that's caused. Even if they could, with the current generations there is no guarantee that they will even be able to find a new biome in 10,000 blocks!
That's true. Well, I guess there's not much you can do about it, can you.
I had a desert/savanna region generated in 1.7.4 roughly 10,000 x 10,000 blocks (here). And this on Default. Multiply that by 4 if you set it to Large Biomes. The current generator is that insane.
However this is virtually the first instance of the full temperature model implementation in Minecraft. I'm pretty sure (err, I'm hopeful) they will tweak it in future updates and out of the current idiocy.
Yeah, that is absolutely insane!
The default generation is even too large for the large biomes setting. I really hope they fix this too because I won't be able to make a good server.
My world favours savannahs and deserts but I find quite a few other biomes as well within a reasonable distance from my spawn base: extreme hills, birch forest, roofed forest, plains, mesa... I must have been incredibly lucky with the very first 1.7 world I generated and stuck with ever since.
I stopped playing minecraft around 1.2 and recently came back and I am just appalled at how horrid the world generation is! I had to download 3rd party software (Amidst) to even find a seed that has the slightest bit of diversity and even then you have to keep trying seeds to find 2 very different biomes in a 4000 x 4000 area, 3 if you're very lucky.
Most sever worlds are 4000 to 10,000 blocks squared. Most 1.7 seeds have the same handful of biomes and their sub-biomes repeated for over a 10,000 squared area! Where is the diversity? This means that when you enter a biome the chances are very high that it will be that same biome all the way to the edge of the map and this is default seeds, not Large Biome!
The Problems with the 1.7 World Generator
1 - There's double, or even triple the number of temperate biomes, so chances are forests will end up being most of your map due to large numbers of them being grouped together. We need much more diversity.
2 - The size of the biomes are way too large. They are enormous.
3 - There's hardly any lakes. What we have now are inland seas. We need lakes too.
4 - There are no continents. The maps are pangeas.
The Changes from 1.6 to 1.7
*Take note of the ocean and continents in 1.6 and the pangea in 1.7.
(Exhibit 1) Comparing 1.6 Maps to 1.7 Maps
The biome sizes are actually the same in 1.6 and 1.7, but the reason why they seem larger in 1.7 is because with the new temperature system you are getting many of the same biome type clumping together when in 1.6 they would not have bordered each other.
The intention of the temperature system was to stop opposite biomes (ie. snow and desert) from bordering each other, but as an unintended consequence we have the clumping of many biomes of the same temperature.
If you compare the two maps above you can see this happening quite clearly in 1.7, but not in 1.6.
What the World Generator Creates in 1.7
*Take note of the rarity of jungles on both maps.
(Exhibit 2) 1.7 Endless Desert.
(Exhibit 3) 1.7 Giant Clumping Biomes of the Same Temperature.
How this Effects Exploration
Any map, at a sufficient scale will display a variety of biomes since Amidst will generate terrain endlessly. But does that variety actually translates in-game? More often than not, no.
Without knowing ahead of time exactly where the biomes you are looking for are, chances are very high you will be searching endlessly even if you are lucky enough to receive a diverse world. This is especially problematic if you play on a sever were the owner hasn't provided the seed.
This is forced exploration and exploration is now a pointless grind. Neither of which enhances game-play.
(Exhibit 4) Exploration Route and Distance
(Exhibit 5) The Map expanded on Amidst
(Exhibit 6) Exploration Route Imposed on the Amidst Map
The end result is being unable to find a single new biome that differs from biomes at the spawn point despite a large amount of exploration.
The Solution
A balance between gigantic clusters of similar biomes that we have now and the complete randomness from beta would be great along with more options and extend flexibility for the terrain generator.
1.6.4 Biome Distribution Mod
*This mod is 100% the work of TheMasterCaver.
No more enormous biomes and endless searching for a specific biome. The days of travelling 1000's of blocks to find different temperature zones are over! This mod fixes the biome clumping problem. Just install the mod and select the "Random Biome" option from the options menu when generating a new world.
This mod removes the biome clustering by temperature in 1.7 and instead distributes biomes randomly, as they were in 1.6.4 and earlier, so you can have hot and cold biomes next to each other (biome size and terrain generation is otherwise default). In addition, a new world type is added (Random Biomes, using ID 15), so you can still play default/large biomes/amplified worlds in the modded game without worrying about messing them up.
Installation is extremely easy! Comparison maps are below (Both are seed -123775873255737467).
(Modded Map Picture 1.7.4) Click to See Full-Size Map
(29 biomes in total)
Here's a rendering of a world with a filled out level 3 map (up to about 600 blocks from spawn)
*Notice there is Mesa, Mesa Bryce, and Ice Spike biomes
Here a list of all the biomes that are found in that small area:
"Birch Forest," "Birch Forest Hills," "Desert," "Desert Hills," "Extreme Hills," "Extreme Hills +," "Forest," "Forest Hills," "Frozen River," "Ice Plains," "Ice Mountains (Spike)," "Jungle," "JungleEdge," "JungleHills," "Mega Taiga," "Mega Taiga Hills," "Mesa," "Mesa (Bryce)," "Mesa Plateau F," "Plains," "River," "Roofed Forest," "Savanna," "Savanna Hills," "Sunflower Plains," "Swampland," "Swampland M," "Taiga," "Taiga Hills,"
(Vanilla Minecraft Map Picture 1.7.4) Click to See Full-Size Map
(16 biomes in total)
Here's a rendering of a world with a filled out level 3 map (up to about 600 blocks from spawn)
There are giant clumps of biomes from the same temperature group and there is not nearly as many different biomes. Most of the biomes listed are the hills variation of other biomes on the map and there are no cold biomes.
Here a list of all the biomes that are found in that area:
"Birch Forest," "Birch Forest Hills," "Desert," "Extreme Hills," "Extreme Hills +," "Forest," "Forest Hills," "Jungle," "Jungle Hills," "Jungle Edge," "Plains," "River," "Roofed Forest," "Savanna," "Savanna Plateau," "Swampland"
(TheMasterCaver Mods) For Cave, Ravine, Terrain Height, and No Void Fog
TheMasterCaver's Cave & Terrain Height Mods
No Void Fog and Cave & Ravine Generation Mods
*A special thanks to Kholdstare, Marfig, MineCrak, Jh1234l, TheMasterCaver, and others for their contributions to this thread.
Thanks, but I saw that already. It's a 4000 x 4000 area. Some biomes go on for 1000 blocks or more! This isn't fun to explore. The biomes need to be much smaller and generate a better variety of different biomes in seeds.
This seed has the variety, but you still have to travel 1000's of blocks to get to a new biome.
Why do you say this as if it's a fact? It's an opinion.
Don't go all out fanboy on me now.
I gave several reasons for why I don't like the new world generation. If you like it then that's fine, but from my perspective if you've seen one mesa hills biome, you've seen every mesa hills biome. I don't need to see the same biome for 1000's of blocks straight and I've been looking on Amidst and it is quite common for desert and forest biomes to run for 10,000 blocks or more. That's horribly redundant and excessive.
A similar thing happens with snow biomes, but they are not as common. Jungles are now quite rare. This is unfortunate because they are great to start off next to. There's a lot of food and supplies that can only be found in jungles.
Most sever owners don't have the ability to allow their players to travel over 10,000 blocks in one direction to find new biomes due to the amount of lag that's caused. Even if they could, with the current generations there is no guarantee that they will even be able to find a new biome in 10,000 blocks!
If someone else's opinion bothers you then discussing recent updates on the forums probably isn't the place for you. Just saying.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/2057073-i-do-not-like-the-new-biome-generation-algorithm/
With any given seed, it seems like the landmass is typically 80 - 85% the same few biomes, repeated over and over again.
This example is mostly plains, mountains, plains, mountains, plains mountains, with the occasional forest and desert tossed in...
Exactly. That map is 5000 x 5000, which is fairly typical for a server. There is no variety.
Thanks.
I had a desert/savanna region generated in 1.7.4 roughly 10,000 x 10,000 blocks (here). And this on Default. Multiply that by 4 if you set it to Large Biomes. The current generator is that insane.
However this is virtually the first instance of the full temperature model implementation in Minecraft. I'm pretty sure (err, I'm hopeful) they will tweak it in future updates and out of the current idiocy.
That's true. Well, I guess there's not much you can do about it, can you.
Yeah, that is absolutely insane!
The default generation is even too large for the large biomes setting. I really hope they fix this too because I won't be able to make a good server.
Not unless I become a Mojang developer... but, hopefully they are aware of this problem due to the amount of threads out now.
The new rose isn't game-breaking. It's purely a cosmetic.
I'm confident that there will be some sort of attempted fix. Whether, or not that remedies the problem will be another story.
Technically, this isn't "game-breaking" either, but it can be a problem at times.
It is game-breaking for anyone who plays survival, or has a survival sever. There will be resources that you will never be able to obtain.
Survival server - probably
Survival - It is more tedious than before, but you should still be able to get everything