I just thought of an idea to balance this some, was to weaken the zombies health if it's spawned as a result of a call for help from another zombie. Each zombie called from another zombie would have about half the health, with no chance of spawning other zombies.
Perhaps if the Zombie hordes only showed up on the night of a new moon (least light - makes sense).
You'd then have to keep a track of the days and make sure you didn't get caught outside in a cave on those nights.
That would add a touch of strategy and excitement when you find you've lost track of the days and tonight's the night.
Instead we just get a cheap mechanic, that looks and plays poorly, with little internal logic, is annoying because it interferes with other game play (crafting) and is simply no fun in the long run.
A Zombie horde would be fun every now and then, if it appeared and behaved consistently and in a way the player could work with in an entertaining way. But not like this.
The current way Mojang are trying to increase difficultly is IMHO rather poor. They are upsetting tried and tested gameplay, instead of adding intelligent new features. It’s just not subtle enough. And more importantly not FUN enough. Yes add more challenge please, but not at the expense of balance and usability.
The change to the boat controls is another face plant. What exactly was wrong with the old ones? They functioned perfectly. Not exactly like a real boat, but just right for the needs of this game. Now to slow a boat down you have to look away from where you are going for goodness sake. Which genius thought that crap up?
Someone needs to get Mojang to measure twice and cut once when it comes to game design decisions, because at the moment it seems they are doing stuff because they can rather than because they should.
Basically I think they need to seek the advice of a professional game designer every now and then, rather than just use the (skilled) coders they have now.
I want a hard, challenging game. This feature isn't hard just annoying. I don't see how having to hack and slash a little more makes the game any harder. All it does is wear down your durability. The AI change in 1.2 was actual difficulty, this is not.
It needs to be scaled to difficulty or toned down.... I mean I died several times in my first survival world (1.6 +) though I did have gamerule keepinventory true. The only way to defeat them is to back walk and attack them but even then it's really hard to do especially with other mobs.
Honestly, I love it! The fist time I went "hunting" after the new update, I was stunned! I could not believe the amount of zombies coming towards me. Although I do feel it was a little bit overwhelming, it was fun fighting them. The way I see it is, if your and experienced player, you should be able to handle the hordes of zombies coming after you, and if you can't handle them, maybe you should start with animals lol and get more acquainted with the game.
Also, more zombies, more loot... and the better chances of getting rare loot from zombies
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm always trying to mine obs with a stone pickaxe.. Not the average 14 year old, much, much more mature. I hate the "kids are annoying and immature" stereotype.
Playing on Hard, I like it. My only two issues would be:
1) Zombies reinforcements spawning within ~20 blocks of you. This is cheap, if I have control of my immediate area the game should not be allowed to cheat that. If it's going to overwhelm me, do it where I lose control of the situation, not by spawning a mob next to me.
2) Spawning in light +7. If I have secured an area by lighting it up, it should be safe from spawns. For example I have a walled off castle, I don't want to see any zombies spawning in the castle, again it's a cheating dynamic.
Finally I have an issue with this being the default setting on easy. Some people like to relax playing, but with a little mix of mobs in there. Allow them to play on easy mode with the pre 1.6 zombies, leave the hordes for normal and hard.
Thankfully I haven't experienced either issue #1 or #2 yet, so hopefully it's not as bad as people are making out.
Ok at first I was like, "Damm where are all these buggers coming from, hay this is awesome!"
Then I got it under control and I was all, "This ain't so bad, why they crying about it."
Then this new regional difficulty thing started kicking in and at first I was digging it because the drops were better.
However all of a sudden in the new region I'm working on I'm getting heavily armored hordes of Zombies, backed by armored and bow enchanted skeletons and crazed creepers. Mind you I have some pretty good gear (Iron and chain with Protection IV on it) but it's grinding down my stuff at night pretty fast, and I've come close to death a few times.
I also got jumped by 3 helmeted skeletons in broad daylight! I'm like, "Crap they got a hold of Fairy blood, I'm #$@#$@!". And armored pigmy zombies (It's just plain rude!)
It's worst on my pets. I've had several dogs get blown up, and I've lost Old #7 (my Mule), #8, #9 and a few good horses. So bad I don't bother to name them because they will bit it before long.
I'm not crying and saying nerf, nerf, nerf !!!!!! whaaaaaaaaaaaa...
KK perhaps a little bit.
But....
Can we have some moderation, or just move all these changes to the harder setting. I was playing on Diffucult but now I'm like "$## it!, it's a pain in the ass on normal"
I don't want to play in creative either mode, it's boring. I don't want to have to wall everything off and stop what I'm doing every 15 minutes to fight back the horde.
This is just annoying, I'm playing Grindcraft. I'm spending far too much time at my mob grinder repairing than I would like too.
So how about they keep the regional thing but go back to less annoying zombies.
I really like that they are armored more often, and have enchantments. Fact they should armor creepers too, that would be a challenge to keep darting in and out trying to kill it before it goes "boom". It would be more fun to fight a smaller amount of baddies what are far more powerful than mindlessly clicking the button to mow down the ants.
So ya. Just tweek it a bit, and I think they will hit a good happy spot.
BTW if you got the Fairy Blood crack, good for you. If not it's from "True Blood" on HBO.
They can keep the detection range for all I care. Just get rid of how they spawn more zombies. It's really annoying how they can spawn them just about anywhere they want to.
Has anyone heard/read any kind of reply from Mojang about the new zombie behavior after the patch was released? Why they chose this method, or if they plan to do anything in a future patch? Anything???
Zombies needed a huge buff... they were no threat at all.
I agree, but this isn't 'zombies getting a buff' this is just multiplying them over & over again...
I wouldn't have minded if they made regular zombies faster, hit harder or infect villagers more often, but spawning a stream of zombies is just frustrating
Yes, I can survive hordes sometimes in normal and I'm not good at battling (good armour & a sword with knockback helps). but having to hide ALL night or even having to pillar 3 blocks & stab the stream until dawn (useless if babies are around: they won't burn & I have to climb down sooner or later) because I couldn't get home in time just isn't fun, it's repetitive and annoying! And some people really struggle with it. The hordes are in all modes, if a casual player likes to build/explore and maybe defend against out the occasional monster to break the monotony, why should they have to stand there all night with their backs to the wall & fight a huge wave in easy/normal?
It was kind of fun for a couple of nights. I'm pretty awesome at Minecraft, so in some ways I don't even care. But then I start trying to do stuff in villages. Villages are simply not fun anymore. I used to like building in villages, but now if I encounter a village, I avoid it, because of the tedium of trying to protect all the villagers.
And then there's the lag. Does anyone at Mojang know how to make a game? You can't just fiddle with pathing like this and expect no issues. I expect this sort of behaviour from a modification, or an untested snapshot, but not from the official vanilla version.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I think you are going to love my Survival Let's Play series on YouTube! It's called Spaceboot1's Garden. I make pretty things.
I have to revise my opinion from the other day. I went caving and found myself sitting on a ledge hitting zombies one at a time as they lined up to die at my sword. It was pointless and annoying.
I'm all for the distance that they spot you, and I like the regional setting as it makes things challenging.
Also these changes should not have been applied to easy.
They need to tone it back some but everyone needs to remember that night is supposed to be a dangerous time where many hostile mobs spawn. Not just a time when you can kill two skeles and be perfectly safe.
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Personally I like the hordes. Not too hard to kill the things.
Edit: Nevermind that, I was just fighting a horde of zombies and they pushed me, into a creeper, i blew up and went flying a few blocks into the air and got skele sniped. Freakin got combo'd. I got launched cause its a reaction to the sound of the creeper.
It was kind of fun for a couple of nights. I'm pretty awesome at Minecraft, so in some ways I don't even care. But then I start trying to do stuff in villages. Villages are simply not fun anymore. I used to like building in villages, but now if I encounter a village, I avoid it, because of the tedium of trying to protect all the villagers.
And then there's the lag. Does anyone at Mojang know how to make a game? You can't just fiddle with pathing like this and expect no issues. I expect this sort of behaviour from a modification, or an untested snapshot, but not from the official vanilla version.
You see it's just that. Mojang has stopped fulfilling the purpose of snapshots; now just simply releasing them because they have for a while now. In the beginning of June (12w23a, and 12w23b) they "balanced potions and regeneration" and "improved" zombie AI. Coupled with the strange and unpolished new Boat controls (not to mention Lily Pads once again break boats at high speeds; why would they change it in 1.3.1 only to revert it when it worked?); a majority of people, that's right a definite majority and not some self-assumed statisitic, was and still is responding with disdain. Dinnerbone has stated on quote that: http://www.reddit.co..._13w23a/cae8ql4
This is a snapshot. Things change all the time.
Natural health regeneration changed. Health retrieving items actually are important now if you find yourself in combat a lot.
The snapshot has been out all of an hour and lots of people haven't even tested these things and are going on mostly incorrect rumours.
When and where did these revisions come? Never, and now we have an update forum overflowing with requests to revert it and the most vocal of supporters defending Mojang. TBH, Dinnerbone (the author of these changes and defender of them) needs to step up his game when dealing with the fanbase. He set himself up as carefully listening developer; but when 1.6 came along he seemed to throw that all out the window. He added his opinion into the game and failed repeatedly to respond and adapt his ideas for the players. He has on occasion responded ignorantly, self-induldged, rudely, and plain smart-alecky (I say that a lot huh?) when those disagree with his ideas. We get posts on Reddit like these: http://www.reddit.co..._13w23a/caecif9
As far as I remember, no items have been changed in such a game-breaking way with the exception of ladders. All other item behavior changes so far have only caused minor gameplay changes, none of which had an impact of any significance on the balance of maps.
I won't go too far back, but here's stuff from the top of my head that changed since I joined:
Complete overhaul of 'protection' enchants.
Huge tweaks to damage enchants changing how much damage things did against, uh, things.
Bone meal no longer being instant full growth.
Dispenser no longer triggering on block updates. (Broke so many maps)
Flame bows settings things on fire (as opposed to not)
Completely changed TNT damage
Changed how much some foods gave you (cookies?)
At least half of these changes he was involved in and had full control over. Why would you use evidence of things you've done as reasoning behind changes in the game since you've joined? I don't understand. I also recall on Twitter when someone complained about snapshots, albeit a bit obnoxiously. It eventually materialized into Dinnerbone stating that the development team is not obligated to update the game. I haven't ever been more PO'ed by a dev. We bought this game as a WIP with continous development; and we were assured it would stay that way after official release. Now some newbie Mojang dev with apparently "full control" over the features we have in this game says they don't have to?
No.
We are as fully obligated to getting new content as (humorous example) Deadpool is to breaking the fourth wall... all the freaking time. I'm sorry for the hating towards Dinnerbone, wall of text, and the rambling; but I'm only using this to basically say that after Dinnerbone has come along snapshots haven't been used to obtain feedback on New features at least to their full extent. Unless of course, they're severely broken like the first attempt at Zombies spawning other zombies. I'm sure going to recieve plenty of negative responses and debunking of my opinion; but I just thought I'd let that off my chest.
#5 - It even seems like sometimes they can spawn in strong light. Apparently, the zombies spawn "in the air", and fall down, so now not only do you hav to make sure the light level is high enough on the ground, you also have to make sure the light level is also high enough IN THE VERY AIR UP TO THE ROOF! Ouch! and since they spawn in the air, using slabs and other "non spawn" blocks won't work either. So you also have to put lots of lighting over all your buildings tops - or maybe even FLOATING lighting too - no matter how ugly that would look.
i like the new zombies, and i feel like this is completely untrue. i hang out on my roof every night, no torches, and overlook my village. my roof is made of stone brick stairs and i've never seen ANYTHING spawn up there.
The STARTING ENEMIES shouldn't be giving people who have much better gear than they did at the start any problems.
(Maybe one or two of them, and before, those were Endermen and creepers. Now it's every overworld mob; skeletons with their machine gun bows, zombies with their idiotic spawning mechanics and insane detection ranges for enemies whose eyes are rotting away, spiders with their invisibility, swiftness, and health regen, Endermen with their teleporting and quick movement, and creepers with their instant-killing, terrain-destroying explosions)
I really wonder if it is now impossible to go out at night without armor, and I'm pretty sure it is and doing so will result in death.
Yes, night is supposed to be dangerous; no, it should not be nearly impossible to live through.
The spawning changes can't be outsmarted as it's a completely chance-based(and rage-inducing) event that another zombie will suddenly pop out of the one you just hit.
PROUD USER OF THE STEVE SKIN
You'd then have to keep a track of the days and make sure you didn't get caught outside in a cave on those nights.
That would add a touch of strategy and excitement when you find you've lost track of the days and tonight's the night.
Instead we just get a cheap mechanic, that looks and plays poorly, with little internal logic, is annoying because it interferes with other game play (crafting) and is simply no fun in the long run.
A Zombie horde would be fun every now and then, if it appeared and behaved consistently and in a way the player could work with in an entertaining way. But not like this.
The current way Mojang are trying to increase difficultly is IMHO rather poor. They are upsetting tried and tested gameplay, instead of adding intelligent new features. It’s just not subtle enough. And more importantly not FUN enough. Yes add more challenge please, but not at the expense of balance and usability.
The change to the boat controls is another face plant. What exactly was wrong with the old ones? They functioned perfectly. Not exactly like a real boat, but just right for the needs of this game. Now to slow a boat down you have to look away from where you are going for goodness sake. Which genius thought that crap up?
Someone needs to get Mojang to measure twice and cut once when it comes to game design decisions, because at the moment it seems they are doing stuff because they can rather than because they should.
Basically I think they need to seek the advice of a professional game designer every now and then, rather than just use the (skilled) coders they have now.
Also, more zombies, more loot... and the better chances of getting rare loot from zombies
Not the average 14 year old, much, much more mature. I hate the "kids are annoying and immature" stereotype.
1) Zombies reinforcements spawning within ~20 blocks of you. This is cheap, if I have control of my immediate area the game should not be allowed to cheat that. If it's going to overwhelm me, do it where I lose control of the situation, not by spawning a mob next to me.
2) Spawning in light +7. If I have secured an area by lighting it up, it should be safe from spawns. For example I have a walled off castle, I don't want to see any zombies spawning in the castle, again it's a cheating dynamic.
Finally I have an issue with this being the default setting on easy. Some people like to relax playing, but with a little mix of mobs in there. Allow them to play on easy mode with the pre 1.6 zombies, leave the hordes for normal and hard.
Thankfully I haven't experienced either issue #1 or #2 yet, so hopefully it's not as bad as people are making out.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0OtPNZX22RvZVeq4-dHa8GYKOc5lojKX
Then I got it under control and I was all, "This ain't so bad, why they crying about it."
Then this new regional difficulty thing started kicking in and at first I was digging it because the drops were better.
However all of a sudden in the new region I'm working on I'm getting heavily armored hordes of Zombies, backed by armored and bow enchanted skeletons and crazed creepers. Mind you I have some pretty good gear (Iron and chain with Protection IV on it) but it's grinding down my stuff at night pretty fast, and I've come close to death a few times.
I also got jumped by 3 helmeted skeletons in broad daylight! I'm like, "Crap they got a hold of Fairy blood, I'm #$@#$@!". And armored pigmy zombies (It's just plain rude!)
It's worst on my pets. I've had several dogs get blown up, and I've lost Old #7 (my Mule), #8, #9 and a few good horses. So bad I don't bother to name them because they will bit it before long.
I'm not crying and saying nerf, nerf, nerf !!!!!! whaaaaaaaaaaaa...
KK perhaps a little bit.
But....
Can we have some moderation, or just move all these changes to the harder setting. I was playing on Diffucult but now I'm like "$## it!, it's a pain in the ass on normal"
I don't want to play in creative either mode, it's boring. I don't want to have to wall everything off and stop what I'm doing every 15 minutes to fight back the horde.
This is just annoying, I'm playing Grindcraft. I'm spending far too much time at my mob grinder repairing than I would like too.
So how about they keep the regional thing but go back to less annoying zombies.
I really like that they are armored more often, and have enchantments. Fact they should armor creepers too, that would be a challenge to keep darting in and out trying to kill it before it goes "boom". It would be more fun to fight a smaller amount of baddies what are far more powerful than mindlessly clicking the button to mow down the ants.
So ya. Just tweek it a bit, and I think they will hit a good happy spot.
BTW if you got the Fairy Blood crack, good for you. If not it's from "True Blood" on HBO.
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I agree, but this isn't 'zombies getting a buff' this is just multiplying them over & over again...
I wouldn't have minded if they made regular zombies faster, hit harder or infect villagers more often, but spawning a stream of zombies is just frustrating
Yes, I can survive hordes sometimes in normal and I'm not good at battling (good armour & a sword with knockback helps). but having to hide ALL night or even having to pillar 3 blocks & stab the stream until dawn (useless if babies are around: they won't burn & I have to climb down sooner or later) because I couldn't get home in time just isn't fun, it's repetitive and annoying! And some people really struggle with it. The hordes are in all modes, if a casual player likes to build/explore and maybe defend against out the occasional monster to break the monotony, why should they have to stand there all night with their backs to the wall & fight a huge wave in easy/normal?
And then there's the lag. Does anyone at Mojang know how to make a game? You can't just fiddle with pathing like this and expect no issues. I expect this sort of behaviour from a modification, or an untested snapshot, but not from the official vanilla version.
Want to play Minecraft SSP like Spaceboot1? Try my modpack, all mods made by me, Spaceboot1!
I'm all for the distance that they spot you, and I like the regional setting as it makes things challenging.
Also these changes should not have been applied to easy.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0OtPNZX22RvZVeq4-dHa8GYKOc5lojKX
Edit: Nevermind that, I was just fighting a horde of zombies and they pushed me, into a creeper, i blew up and went flying a few blocks into the air and got skele sniped. Freakin got combo'd. I got launched cause its a reaction to the sound of the creeper.
You see it's just that. Mojang has stopped fulfilling the purpose of snapshots; now just simply releasing them because they have for a while now. In the beginning of June (12w23a, and 12w23b) they "balanced potions and regeneration" and "improved" zombie AI. Coupled with the strange and unpolished new Boat controls (not to mention Lily Pads once again break boats at high speeds; why would they change it in 1.3.1 only to revert it when it worked?); a majority of people, that's right a definite majority and not some self-assumed statisitic, was and still is responding with disdain. Dinnerbone has stated on quote that:
http://www.reddit.co..._13w23a/cae8ql4
When and where did these revisions come? Never, and now we have an update forum overflowing with requests to revert it and the most vocal of supporters defending Mojang. TBH, Dinnerbone (the author of these changes and defender of them) needs to step up his game when dealing with the fanbase. He set himself up as carefully listening developer; but when 1.6 came along he seemed to throw that all out the window. He added his opinion into the game and failed repeatedly to respond and adapt his ideas for the players. He has on occasion responded ignorantly, self-induldged, rudely, and plain smart-alecky (I say that a lot huh?) when those disagree with his ideas. We get posts on Reddit like these:
http://www.reddit.co..._13w23a/caecif9
At least half of these changes he was involved in and had full control over. Why would you use evidence of things you've done as reasoning behind changes in the game since you've joined? I don't understand. I also recall on Twitter when someone complained about snapshots, albeit a bit obnoxiously. It eventually materialized into Dinnerbone stating that the development team is not obligated to update the game. I haven't ever been more PO'ed by a dev. We bought this game as a WIP with continous development; and we were assured it would stay that way after official release. Now some newbie Mojang dev with apparently "full control" over the features we have in this game says they don't have to?
No.
We are as fully obligated to getting new content as (humorous example) Deadpool is to breaking the fourth wall... all the freaking time. I'm sorry for the hating towards Dinnerbone, wall of text, and the rambling; but I'm only using this to basically say that after Dinnerbone has come along snapshots haven't been used to obtain feedback on New features at least to their full extent. Unless of course, they're severely broken like the first attempt at Zombies spawning other zombies. I'm sure going to recieve plenty of negative responses and debunking of my opinion; but I just thought I'd let that off my chest.
i like the new zombies, and i feel like this is completely untrue. i hang out on my roof every night, no torches, and overlook my village. my roof is made of stone brick stairs and i've never seen ANYTHING spawn up there.
I wanted to be one of the cool kids.
(Maybe one or two of them, and before, those were Endermen and creepers. Now it's every overworld mob; skeletons with their machine gun bows, zombies with their idiotic spawning mechanics and insane detection ranges for enemies whose eyes are rotting away, spiders with their invisibility, swiftness, and health regen, Endermen with their teleporting and quick movement, and creepers with their instant-killing, terrain-destroying explosions)
I really wonder if it is now impossible to go out at night without armor, and I'm pretty sure it is and doing so will result in death.
Yes, night is supposed to be dangerous; no, it should not be nearly impossible to live through.
The spawning changes can't be outsmarted as it's a completely chance-based(and rage-inducing) event that another zombie will suddenly pop out of the one you just hit.