I reckon it was a good idea to lower it a bit, (I would have put the max to 35-40) but 30 is a bit too low I have to admit, and too easy to achieve,
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They've scaled back xp now from what it was in a couple snapshots. I feel like it's just right now.
I don't mind making xp farms, but I know a lot of people who hate that kind of thing, and they shouldn't be denied the opportunity to have nice enchantments. XP is supposed to reflect Minecraft experience. It should come from more than killing piles of monsters stuck in a 1x1 square. You shouldn't need to go afk to access the full features of a game.
I also really hated working so hard to get to a high level and then getting a crap enchantment. I spent 30 levels and got a lame Silk Touch pick last night, but it was okay because I knew I could get back to 30 without a crapload of grinding. I can also enchant armor now without feeling like it's a complete waste of orbs.
tl;dr I'm really happy with the current xp system. It's swung between too hard and too easy and now feels just about right.
I love how people complain when something is made easier. "Onk never had fire! Fire bad!" They are just angry that their pain is no longer shared. I wish xp was like it was in 12w24a. That was fun. I could experiment, and if an enchantment went south (30 levels for Punch I, really?!) it wasn't a waste of a day getting them back.
They have nerfed the crap out of xp, and again I find myself in front of a mob grinder. Whoohoo! Fun! *eyeroll*
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Work for it? You stand there doing nothing. You just said you go play another game while you wait. AFK grinding is not work. You either aren't at the computer, or you're playing another game in the background while you WAIT for your bar to fill. You're contradicting yourself at this point. You want to work for it but you run off to play another game while Steve sits there for 10 mins looking like a tool?
Where's the work?
Building the farm? Not really, the designs are all over the net. They're pretty easy to build. Even if you work the creative side of your brain a little bit and build from scratch it's not hard to come up with something that works well.
Is it in killing the mobs? A well build xp farm will allow you to kill them in one to two hits. So you sit around for 10 mins followed by a mass of clicking the right mouse button followed by another 10 minutes of waiting?
Still not seeing the work.
I'd MUCH rather play the game as it was ment to be played, mining, smelting and crafting, while gaining XP Naturally for those things then spend my time waiting, 10 mins at a time, for mobs to drop to their near death in a little hole, so that I can furiously click my right mouse button for a few moments. What's the sense in playing this game if you aren't going to play it?
There's not much more I can add to this post. Mob grinders were a symptom of a system that was so overwhelmingly broken to use that it had become acceptable (even celebrated) to exploit the game's code for spawning monsters in order to get around the silly amount of grind. I've stated it multiple times on these forums, so I wont get into the math again, but if you wanted to enchant a single set of armor plus a sword pre 1.3 w/ level 50 you were typically looking at a weeks worth of work without using a mob grinder, doing absolutely nothing but killing mobs at an extremely high rate for 8 hours a day. And then those items were neither permanent, nor guaranteed.
There were, and for that matter, still are a slew of problems with the enchanting system in Minecraft. But one of the most egregious problems was the fact that most of the time, your enchanted item broke down in a lot less time than it took for you to gather the experience to make it -- unless, as stated above, you exploited the game's code for monster spawning to get around it.
Expecting players to dedicate 6 to 8 hours of their gameplay in an already time consuming game just to getting a non-permanent, non-guaranteed item is terrible. It's the epitome of fake difficulty, and it's the kind of crap I'd expect from scam games with monthly fees or a cash item shop. That's why I have a lot of respect for Mojang for this particular change. It's not everything I want to see with regards to the enchanting system, but it's a start, and it removes what is probably the worst problem in the single player game right now.
Spending an hour or so for the experience levels for my max level pick and typically getting something good is fair. It's time consuming for a person who doesn't spend 60+ hours a week playing Minecraft, and it removes the necessity of game exploits to take advantage of things like silk touch.
Frankly, @the original poster, I reckon that folks like yourself who are complaining about this change in general either spend WAY too much time playing Minecraft to realize just how insane the time sink was to get good enchanted stuff, or are just being belligerent towards change.
The whole point would be to work for it. Make XP farms not go out each night to kill mobs. Even though I like that idea more but if you wanted exp faster and faster you would have to have to spend time & resources to make it.
Look all i'm saying is that the max enchanting level needs to be raised to either level 35 - 40, or atleast have it take a bit longer to level up.
I'd rather they fix the entire system so that the effort in one action is equal to the effort in another, rather than blindly half-assing it like you suggest.
It was impossible to level up before. First of, you would have to build annoying ass mob farms to get XP for most players. It's rare that someone would actually go and legitimately kill enough enemies to get to level 50. Also consider that there are so many easy ways to die- not just by mobs. Falling in lava perhaps, drowning, etc. Also, when you finally get to the level, you can only enchant 1 thing. And you have no choice over it, the enchantment is completely random. This might have been fair if there was some sort of system of choice, but other than that its near impossible/pointless. Especially in multi player when you have idiots running around and killing for no reason. Also, Mojang didn't intend on mob farms being built, which is also why mob spawners aren't mineable. And they figured if people where gonna make mob farms they mine as well just make it easier to level up.
If you had to build EXP farms in order to reach the high levels, it means the system was broken and needed fixing.
So I like the change so far.
^This
Having said that: It seems like it's too easy to hit the soft cap of 30. Adding exp for mining and furnaces was a great idea, as it reinforces the primary objective of the game (to build). At the same time, it also seems like they reduced the amount needed to level up, and this should be reverted back to 1.2.5 levels. That would be a good balance.
I never bothered to build exp farms, because I hated the idea of grinding. With the new change, I'll actually be able to use the enchanting system by playing the actual game. Why exactly is that a problem?
Work for it? You stand there doing nothing. You just said you go play another game while you wait. AFK grinding is not work. You either aren't at the computer, or you're playing another game in the background while you WAIT for your bar to fill. You're contradicting yourself at this point. You want to work for it but you run off to play another game while Steve sits there for 10 mins looking like a tool?
Where's the work?
Building the farm? Not really, the designs are all over the net. They're pretty easy to build. Even if you work the creative side of your brain a little bit and build from scratch it's not hard to come up with something that works well.
Is it in killing the mobs? A well build xp farm will allow you to kill them in one to two hits. So you sit around for 10 mins followed by a mass of clicking the right mouse button followed by another 10 minutes of waiting?
Still not seeing the work.
I'd MUCH rather play the game as it was ment to be played, mining, smelting and crafting, while gaining XP Naturally for those things then spend my time waiting, 10 mins at a time, for mobs to drop to their near death in a little hole, so that I can furiously click my right mouse button for a few moments. What's the sense in playing this game if you aren't going to play it?
Easy to build you say? You ever built one? Not only is it time consuming, but it's rather tedious to tweek it. Ya sure anyone can build a box, wait till dark and shoot anything in the box. But to build a good grinder you have to study and figure out how the mobs spawn, devise a way to remove the mobs you don't want. Then build a system to take them from the spawn pad, to a killing zone. All the wile ensuring a steady flow of meet into the grinder. It's not simple, nor easy.
Looking at someone else's design is great, providing that they explain everything in detail to the point that it actually works, and your operating in the same game mode, and you looking at a grinder that is compatible with your version of Minecraft. Because every time the game updates it seems to break something in the grinder.
So lets break this down. I have a grinder with 20 spawn pads. These all flow by water (hay ever try to configure that stuff cause it too is a pain in the ass) to a central collection point. Up to hear though I don't want to harm the buggers, so I have them fall into water and again channel them into a central pit. Now I don't want to have to use a weapon to kill the buggers because that is a drain on resources (we can't have that now can we), so they then fall into a gravity trap to knock them down to one heart. This took me several hours to calculate the distance needed to fall (yes I was the test subject most of that time). Then to ensure that I would be in range for other mobs to spawn I then put the buggers into a water elevator and brought them up to my killing floor. Then had to figure out how to make a box that allowed me to see and hit them, but would not allow them to see me. Because if they do, creepers explode and skeletons start shooing everything else.
In this process I found that for what ever reason, with my server configuration (bukkit with plug-ins) if you fall into water (any depth) you did not take damage. This is of coarse inconsistent with what I know to be true of the game, however I tested it myself. If I fell into any level of water (yes even the last little trickle) I took no damage. So eventually I removed water at the bottom of the gravity trap. Then the game updated and mobs did what????? Ya that's right they just stand their.... O and the buggers learned to swim too, so they get all clogged up at the bottom of my first set of falls (where I don't want them to splatter).
Then acting on a tip from the internet I saw that if I used a half block for an opening I could just smack their feet. Yet they could not see me right? WRONG! I'm on multi-player. Ya know how many hours it took me to figure that out?
Took me months and three grinders just to get a decent, working one. And for what? Every time I enchant something I take 40+ levels and get Fortune I......
In the same amount of time I could have run out into the darkness and mindlessly mashed my mouse button over and over and over. Most likely amassing more experience over the same period of time.
And by the way. How does one play a sandbox game "As it was intended?" Be it's very deffination as long as you can do it. It's as intended.
So are you defending the old system by pointing out how long it took you to do anything using it?
Btw, you missed the most important part of mad's argument: the designs for xp farms are all over the internet. You shouldn't have needed to do all that work: most people just looked up one of the designs that has already been tested (this one here has 2mil+ views: ) and then built that. No creativity, just pure grinding.
And by the way. How does one play a sandbox game "As it was intended?" Be it's very deffination as long as you can do it. It's as intended.
I have to disagree here. If you're grinding in a sandbox game, someone is doing something wrong. Pre-1.3, it was Mojang, but now they've fixed the problem.
Level 50, and use the old system for leveling. The higher you go, the longer it takes. Enchantments should be something you are excited to get just one good one, not sit and complain you don't have a "Diamond Rape Pick of Unfathomable Power, Speed X, Power X, Epic X"
A level 50 enchantment should, though, always get you something extremely awesome. It should take days/weeks (depending on play style) of normal game-play (no grinding) to reach level 50. Why? Because it makes everything rarer, and more valuable.
Just my 3 1/7 cents.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I didn't intend for this topic to be a big arguement topic. I just dislike the way how they made it to easy to get good tools. Sure grinding is tedious in Minecraft, I agree with you 100% with that but here is my point of view (again).
Minecraft is a simple sandbox game. You survive build/cave/mine/craft, anything you want is posable pretty much. But in some way you're eventually going to build a mob grinder in your Minecraft worlds to get mob loots easily, instead of going out at night to get max a half a stack of mob items.
Grinding itself isn't something you must do. It's something you do when you have other stuff to do. Like I said earlier if you're going to grind you have to have something else to do. Either it's watch TV, YouTube videos or either play another video game. It's something you do in your spare time. For example. I was using a crappy zombie spawner to get to level 50. That is very tedious but it went by fast cause I was doing something else in my mean time and I would check back every 10 minutes.
If you find building a mob harvester/grinder stupid & retarded then you're missing out. Over half the people that play minecraft don't even play it vanilla, like me and i've been playing over a year and i'm not bored of the game one single bit. If you were to focus on something like redstone or mobs. Then the game becomes very interesting itself cause you're learning more and more about it. But it's your guy's choice on what you do with the game.
I just wanted to know if you felt the enchanting system is stupidly easy now.
I didn't intend for this topic to be a big arguement topic. I just dislike the way how they made it to easy to get good tools. Sure grinding is tedious in Minecraft, I agree with you 100% with that but here is my point of view (again).
Minecraft is a simple sandbox game. You survive build/cave/mine/craft, anything you want is posable pretty much. But in some way you're eventually going to build a mob grinder in your Minecraft worlds to get mob loots easily, instead of going out at night to get max a half a stack of mob items.
Grinding itself isn't something you must do. It's something you do when you have other stuff to do. Like I said earlier if you're going to grind you have to have something else to do. Either it's watch TV, YouTube videos or either play another video game. It's something you do in your spare time. For example. I was using a crappy zombie spawner to get to level 50. That is very tedious but it went by fast cause I was doing something else in my mean time and I would check back every 10 minutes.
If you find building a mob harvester/grinder stupid & retarded then you're missing out. Over half the people that play minecraft don't even play it vanilla, like me and i've been playing over a year and i'm not bored of the game one single bit. If you were to focus on something like redstone or mobs. Then the game becomes very interesting itself cause you're learning more and more about it. But it's your guy's choice on what you do with the game.
I just wanted to know if you felt the enchanting system is stupidly easy now.
Yeah, I have built mob grinders at some point, but then got bored of 'not playing' mc. At that point I was playing for the sake of enchanting, which after I got the super enchants I ditched the game because it was pretty much self-slavery. I'm never going to use the tool/weapon for the length of time it took to gain all that exp.
I understand building mob grinders is its own art and it's own building fun, but it's really not my type of thing. I'm more interested in playing minecraft, not watching tv or playing shaiya while waiting for mobs to collect.
Easy to build you say? You ever built one? Not only is it time consuming, but it's rather tedious to tweek it. Ya sure anyone can build a box, wait till dark and shoot anything in the box. But to build a good grinder you have to study and figure out how the mobs spawn, devise a way to remove the mobs you don't want. Then build a system to take them from the spawn pad, to a killing zone. All the wile ensuring a steady flow of meet into the grinder. It's not simple, nor easy.
Looking at someone else's design is great, providing that they explain everything in detail to the point that it actually works, and your operating in the same game mode, and you looking at a grinder that is compatible with your version of Minecraft. Because every time the game updates it seems to break something in the grinder.
So lets break this down. I have a grinder with 20 spawn pads. These all flow by water (hay ever try to configure that stuff cause it too is a pain in the ass) to a central collection point. Up to hear though I don't want to harm the buggers, so I have them fall into water and again channel them into a central pit. Now I don't want to have to use a weapon to kill the buggers because that is a drain on resources (we can't have that now can we), so they then fall into a gravity trap to knock them down to one heart. This took me several hours to calculate the distance needed to fall (yes I was the test subject most of that time). Then to ensure that I would be in range for other mobs to spawn I then put the buggers into a water elevator and brought them up to my killing floor. Then had to figure out how to make a box that allowed me to see and hit them, but would not allow them to see me. Because if they do, creepers explode and skeletons start shooing everything else.
In this process I found that for what ever reason, with my server configuration (bukkit with plug-ins) if you fall into water (any depth) you did not take damage. This is of coarse inconsistent with what I know to be true of the game, however I tested it myself. If I fell into any level of water (yes even the last little trickle) I took no damage. So eventually I removed water at the bottom of the gravity trap. Then the game updated and mobs did what????? Ya that's right they just stand their.... O and the buggers learned to swim too, so they get all clogged up at the bottom of my first set of falls (where I don't want them to splatter).
Then acting on a tip from the internet I saw that if I used a half block for an opening I could just smack their feet. Yet they could not see me right? WRONG! I'm on multi-player. Ya know how many hours it took me to figure that out?
Took me months and three grinders just to get a decent, working one. And for what? Every time I enchant something I take 40+ levels and get Fortune I......
In the same amount of time I could have run out into the darkness and mindlessly mashed my mouse button over and over and over. Most likely amassing more experience over the same period of time.
And by the way. How does one play a sandbox game "As it was intended?" Be it's very deffination as long as you can do it. It's as intended.
Um... my grinder design takes less than an hour to build and is one of the most efficient I've seen.
Your argument is invalid.
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I think if they are going to make it faster to get levels by playing normally they need to nerf xp grinders. Before it was insane if you were just going out at night and killing mobs, fairly stupid with a grinder and about right amount of time with a decent enderman farm. Now it is fine if you are mining / smelting / fighting monsters but I think it is too fast with a grinder, I can get level 30 in a few minutes at my enderman farm.
I do not like that they are removing power V, sharpness V and efficiency V.
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Once, actually. But then again, my badmin friend dumped a bunch of mobs right on top of me, so it's only somewhat legitimate.
“Patience up to a point. Know your time, but work your wyrd always.”
I don't mind making xp farms, but I know a lot of people who hate that kind of thing, and they shouldn't be denied the opportunity to have nice enchantments. XP is supposed to reflect Minecraft experience. It should come from more than killing piles of monsters stuck in a 1x1 square. You shouldn't need to go afk to access the full features of a game.
I also really hated working so hard to get to a high level and then getting a crap enchantment. I spent 30 levels and got a lame Silk Touch pick last night, but it was okay because I knew I could get back to 30 without a crapload of grinding. I can also enchant armor now without feeling like it's a complete waste of orbs.
tl;dr I'm really happy with the current xp system. It's swung between too hard and too easy and now feels just about right.
So Silk Touch is in 1.3. I've enchanted 23 diamond picks at level 30 so far since the 1.3 snapshots started and i still can't get it.
They have nerfed the crap out of xp, and again I find myself in front of a mob grinder. Whoohoo! Fun! *eyeroll*
There's not much more I can add to this post. Mob grinders were a symptom of a system that was so overwhelmingly broken to use that it had become acceptable (even celebrated) to exploit the game's code for spawning monsters in order to get around the silly amount of grind. I've stated it multiple times on these forums, so I wont get into the math again, but if you wanted to enchant a single set of armor plus a sword pre 1.3 w/ level 50 you were typically looking at a weeks worth of work without using a mob grinder, doing absolutely nothing but killing mobs at an extremely high rate for 8 hours a day. And then those items were neither permanent, nor guaranteed.
There were, and for that matter, still are a slew of problems with the enchanting system in Minecraft. But one of the most egregious problems was the fact that most of the time, your enchanted item broke down in a lot less time than it took for you to gather the experience to make it -- unless, as stated above, you exploited the game's code for monster spawning to get around it.
Expecting players to dedicate 6 to 8 hours of their gameplay in an already time consuming game just to getting a non-permanent, non-guaranteed item is terrible. It's the epitome of fake difficulty, and it's the kind of crap I'd expect from scam games with monthly fees or a cash item shop. That's why I have a lot of respect for Mojang for this particular change. It's not everything I want to see with regards to the enchanting system, but it's a start, and it removes what is probably the worst problem in the single player game right now.
Spending an hour or so for the experience levels for my max level pick and typically getting something good is fair. It's time consuming for a person who doesn't spend 60+ hours a week playing Minecraft, and it removes the necessity of game exploits to take advantage of things like silk touch.
Frankly, @the original poster, I reckon that folks like yourself who are complaining about this change in general either spend WAY too much time playing Minecraft to realize just how insane the time sink was to get good enchanted stuff, or are just being belligerent towards change.
Yuck.
Exactly.
I'd rather they fix the entire system so that the effort in one action is equal to the effort in another, rather than blindly half-assing it like you suggest.
^This
Having said that: It seems like it's too easy to hit the soft cap of 30. Adding exp for mining and furnaces was a great idea, as it reinforces the primary objective of the game (to build). At the same time, it also seems like they reduced the amount needed to level up, and this should be reverted back to 1.2.5 levels. That would be a good balance.
Now enchantments are finally worth using because they're so easy to get.
Easy to build you say? You ever built one? Not only is it time consuming, but it's rather tedious to tweek it. Ya sure anyone can build a box, wait till dark and shoot anything in the box. But to build a good grinder you have to study and figure out how the mobs spawn, devise a way to remove the mobs you don't want. Then build a system to take them from the spawn pad, to a killing zone. All the wile ensuring a steady flow of meet into the grinder. It's not simple, nor easy.
Looking at someone else's design is great, providing that they explain everything in detail to the point that it actually works, and your operating in the same game mode, and you looking at a grinder that is compatible with your version of Minecraft. Because every time the game updates it seems to break something in the grinder.
So lets break this down. I have a grinder with 20 spawn pads. These all flow by water (hay ever try to configure that stuff cause it too is a pain in the ass) to a central collection point. Up to hear though I don't want to harm the buggers, so I have them fall into water and again channel them into a central pit. Now I don't want to have to use a weapon to kill the buggers because that is a drain on resources (we can't have that now can we), so they then fall into a gravity trap to knock them down to one heart. This took me several hours to calculate the distance needed to fall (yes I was the test subject most of that time). Then to ensure that I would be in range for other mobs to spawn I then put the buggers into a water elevator and brought them up to my killing floor. Then had to figure out how to make a box that allowed me to see and hit them, but would not allow them to see me. Because if they do, creepers explode and skeletons start shooing everything else.
In this process I found that for what ever reason, with my server configuration (bukkit with plug-ins) if you fall into water (any depth) you did not take damage. This is of coarse inconsistent with what I know to be true of the game, however I tested it myself. If I fell into any level of water (yes even the last little trickle) I took no damage. So eventually I removed water at the bottom of the gravity trap. Then the game updated and mobs did what????? Ya that's right they just stand their.... O and the buggers learned to swim too, so they get all clogged up at the bottom of my first set of falls (where I don't want them to splatter).
Then acting on a tip from the internet I saw that if I used a half block for an opening I could just smack their feet. Yet they could not see me right? WRONG! I'm on multi-player. Ya know how many hours it took me to figure that out?
Took me months and three grinders just to get a decent, working one. And for what? Every time I enchant something I take 40+ levels and get Fortune I......
In the same amount of time I could have run out into the darkness and mindlessly mashed my mouse button over and over and over. Most likely amassing more experience over the same period of time.
And by the way. How does one play a sandbox game "As it was intended?" Be it's very deffination as long as you can do it. It's as intended.
Btw, you missed the most important part of mad's argument: the designs for xp farms are all over the internet. You shouldn't have needed to do all that work: most people just looked up one of the designs that has already been tested (this one here has 2mil+ views: ) and then built that. No creativity, just pure grinding.
I have to disagree here. If you're grinding in a sandbox game, someone is doing something wrong. Pre-1.3, it was Mojang, but now they've fixed the problem.
A level 50 enchantment should, though, always get you something extremely awesome. It should take days/weeks (depending on play style) of normal game-play (no grinding) to reach level 50. Why? Because it makes everything rarer, and more valuable.
Just my 3 1/7 cents.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Minecraft is a simple sandbox game. You survive build/cave/mine/craft, anything you want is posable pretty much. But in some way you're eventually going to build a mob grinder in your Minecraft worlds to get mob loots easily, instead of going out at night to get max a half a stack of mob items.
Grinding itself isn't something you must do. It's something you do when you have other stuff to do. Like I said earlier if you're going to grind you have to have something else to do. Either it's watch TV, YouTube videos or either play another video game. It's something you do in your spare time. For example. I was using a crappy zombie spawner to get to level 50. That is very tedious but it went by fast cause I was doing something else in my mean time and I would check back every 10 minutes.
If you find building a mob harvester/grinder stupid & retarded then you're missing out. Over half the people that play minecraft don't even play it vanilla, like me and i've been playing over a year and i'm not bored of the game one single bit. If you were to focus on something like redstone or mobs. Then the game becomes very interesting itself cause you're learning more and more about it. But it's your guy's choice on what you do with the game.
I just wanted to know if you felt the enchanting system is stupidly easy now.
I understand building mob grinders is its own art and it's own building fun, but it's really not my type of thing. I'm more interested in playing minecraft, not watching tv or playing shaiya while waiting for mobs to collect.
Um... my grinder design takes less than an hour to build and is one of the most efficient I've seen.
Your argument is invalid.
I do not like that they are removing power V, sharpness V and efficiency V.