The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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First off, I want to apologize about my behavior. I was scared that TheMasterCaver would hurt himself soon after posting his message. I thought I would be a cad If I didn't do all in my power to prevent it; And for all of that, I apologize.
Second. I feel like ruined portals are a bit too common.
First off, I want to apologize about my behavior. I was scared that TheMasterCaver would hurt himself soon after posting his message. I thought I would be a cad If I didn't do all in my power to prevent it; And for all of that, I apologize.
Second. I feel like ruined portals are a bit too common.
I asked some old friends to meet him. Not much else I can do with this little energy.
ruined portals definitely feel too common even with the reduction they had from their first snapshot
I can argue that underwater structs of all kinds are too common as well as villages, but this is normal.
There's probablly going to0 be few that actually agree with me but yes, I think there are too many structures in the game now, and for some obscure reason some players want even more. When it was just villages and a couple of temples it was fine but now with all the underwater ruins, shipwrecks (Which I'm including), and ruined portals (Something I hadn't even considered) it just feels like too much. Too much crammed in with too little else.
Remember when you used to have to actually mine and get some decent iron armor and work your way up to diamond (Now diamond+) armor? Not any more! Now you can just find a village if you don't spawn near one, and buy all diamond armor! Why work for it, when you can just buy it! Unless your doing a specific style of gameplay (Say speed running) then for survival it now just feels.. cheap now. The same way you could just not work or earn anything, just boat around for underwater ruins and get instant gratification. Cheap.
Rather than add more, I personally think it's just time to stop. I actually disagree with whitelight or whater that youtuber's name is and adding more NPCs and the whole "What good is a castle if you've noone to protect it), what next - NPCs that do for you quests for you or you have to do for them? If that's the case then that should only be a specific gameplay mode not universal.
I would like it to be more biome pecific, because biome diversity has long been a problem. If you've seen one type of biome with no assertable differences for itself then you'll see it endless times throughout the game and that has also long been a problem in the game. What happenned to the other biome updates in polls like the savanna? Now forgotten about and not even vagley interesting as a biome any more. In a snow biome and desert biome you might get a village, maybe a temple in the latter but that's the only thing that makes them interesting compared to something like old taiga with wierd cobble/mossy cobble placements (Almost like tombs) podzol course dirt. Let alone in the standard taiga's wiith mushrooms and sweet berries.
I think you can make the game more interesting enough with biome diversity than simply shoving more and more structures into the game hinting at an unwritten lore (Especially if they ever do add pottery or officially annouce they [Mojang] are abandoning it for ever). Case in point - the deep dark. If it was just the actual warden itself I guess that's one thing, but no. Again they have to go and add ancient cities and structures and shove even more - what I feel personally is uneeded, structures in there.
That's just my feelings however, /rant, and I will probably die alone standing on this viewpoint; but you did want opinions and these are mine whether anyone else after agrees or disagrees.
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i don't understand the discussion about structures. are they more prevalent in new maps? if i am playing a map while the upgrades to new versions are going on, do the upgrades add new structures in parts of the map i havent discovered yet? i didn't know you could get diamond stuff in the villages. i don't understand villages much but i will try to discover more there. so if you have to buy then you have to have emeralds and to get them you have to farm or do other things like paper and coal. that takes time and by then my village is unpopulated. haven't figured out how to repopulate the village. is a ruined portal the ones with a chest and a gold block? i guess i have too much learning to do to comment on too many structures...
i don't understand the discussion about structures. are they more prevalent in new maps? if i am playing a map while the upgrades to new versions are going on, do the upgrades add new structures in parts of the map i havent discovered yet? i didn't know you could get diamond stuff in the villages. i don't understand villages much but i will try to discover more there. so if you have to buy then you have to have emeralds and to get them you have to farm or do other things like paper and coal. that takes time and by then my village is unpopulated. haven't figured out how to repopulate the village. is a ruined portal the ones with a chest and a gold block? i guess i have too much learning to do to comment on too many structures...
Pulling a posthumous TMC: no, structs don't spawn in existing areas EXCEPT monuments in ocean chunks you spent less than 2? 5? minutes in after 1.8.
You need to learn villager mechanics. Villagers are easy to game if you have no soul (i.e. mass farm everything, and change workstations and add many beds).
There's probablly going to0 be few that actually agree with me but yes, I think there are too many structures in the game now, and for some obscure reason some players want even more. When it was just villages and a couple of temples it was fine but now with all the underwater ruins, shipwrecks (Which I'm including), and ruined portals (Something I hadn't even considered) it just feels like too much. Too much crammed in with too little else.
Remember when you used to have to actually mine and get some decent iron armor and work your way up to diamond (Now diamond+) armor? Not any more! Now you can just find a village if you don't spawn near one, and buy all diamond armor! Why work for it, when you can just buy it! Unless your doing a specific style of gameplay (Say speed running) then for survival it now just feels.. cheap now. The same way you could just not work or earn anything, just boat around for underwater ruins and get instant gratification. Cheap.
Rather than add more, I personally think it's just time to stop. I actually disagree with whitelight or whater that youtuber's name is and adding more NPCs and the whole "What good is a castle if you've noone to protect it), what next - NPCs that do for you quests for you or you have to do for them? If that's the case then that should only be a specific gameplay mode not universal.
I would like it to be more biome pecific, because biome diversity has long been a problem. If you've seen one type of biome with no assertable differences for itself then you'll see it endless times throughout the game and that has also long been a problem in the game. What happenned to the other biome updates in polls like the savanna? Now forgotten about and not even vagley interesting as a biome any more. In a snow biome and desert biome you might get a village, maybe a temple in the latter but that's the only thing that makes them interesting compared to something like old taiga with wierd cobble/mossy cobble placements (Almost like tombs) podzol course dirt. Let alone in the standard taiga's wiith mushrooms and sweet berries.
I think you can make the game more interesting enough with biome diversity than simply shoving more and more structures into the game hinting at an unwritten lore (Especially if they ever do add pottery or officially annouce they [Mojang] are abandoning it for ever). Case in point - the deep dark. If it was just the actual warden itself I guess that's one thing, but no. Again they have to go and add ancient cities and structures and shove even more - what I feel personally is uneeded, structures in there.
That's just my feelings however, /rant, and I will probably die alone standing on this viewpoint; but you did want opinions and these are mine whether anyone else after agrees or disagrees.
I certainly agree with you and this is exactly why I made the topic. I would prefer the rarification of many in-game structures, especially if new ones still come up. Underground ones also now feel common due to larger caves, except cities which are weird but fine.
Villages being hackable: again, yes, but the game's mood and immersion dies the second you grind for emeralds - which is why I avoid mob farms and most redstone. It ceases to be Amnesia: The Dark Descent style fantasy world, and goes to Farming Simulator. Meh.
There's probablly going to0 be few that actually agree with me but yes, I think there are too many structures in the game now, and for some obscure reason some players want even more. When it was just villages and a couple of temples it was fine but now with all the underwater ruins, shipwrecks (Which I'm including), and ruined portals (Something I hadn't even considered) it just feels like too much. Too much crammed in with too little else.
Remember when you used to have to actually mine and get some decent iron armor and work your way up to diamond (Now diamond+) armor? Not any more! Now you can just find a village if you don't spawn near one, and buy all diamond armor! Why work for it, when you can just buy it! Unless your doing a specific style of gameplay (Say speed running) then for survival it now just feels.. cheap now. The same way you could just not work or earn anything, just boat around for underwater ruins and get instant gratification. Cheap.
Rather than add more, I personally think it's just time to stop. I actually disagree with whitelight or whater that youtuber's name is and adding more NPCs and the whole "What good is a castle if you've noone to protect it), what next - NPCs that do for you quests for you or you have to do for them? If that's the case then that should only be a specific gameplay mode not universal.
I would like it to be more biome pecific, because biome diversity has long been a problem. If you've seen one type of biome with no assertable differences for itself then you'll see it endless times throughout the game and that has also long been a problem in the game. What happenned to the other biome updates in polls like the savanna? Now forgotten about and not even vagley interesting as a biome any more. In a snow biome and desert biome you might get a village, maybe a temple in the latter but that's the only thing that makes them interesting compared to something like old taiga with wierd cobble/mossy cobble placements (Almost like tombs) podzol course dirt. Let alone in the standard taiga's wiith mushrooms and sweet berries.
I think you can make the game more interesting enough with biome diversity than simply shoving more and more structures into the game hinting at an unwritten lore (Especially if they ever do add pottery or officially annouce they [Mojang] are abandoning it for ever). Case in point - the deep dark. If it was just the actual warden itself I guess that's one thing, but no. Again they have to go and add ancient cities and structures and shove even more - what I feel personally is uneeded, structures in there.
That's just my feelings however, /rant, and I will probably die alone standing on this viewpoint; but you did want opinions and these are mine whether anyone else after agrees or disagrees.
Whitelight proposed adding in more variants of survival mode as a fix for people who disagree with him, I think context is important here, he isn't trying to force his proposals down everyone else's throats, which is one reason I respect his opinion on what should be done with the game and his ideas are actually consistent with the spirit of the game's sandbox element which makes his arguments valid.
If your survival play-style is collect resources, building but only occasional or situational combat like mine, then under his system you would still get to play the game in this manner, that wouldn't change. What Whitelight proposed is a different game mode which allows people who want the extra challenges to pursue them so now NPC's are capable of demolishing player structures through illager raids and Villagers would also be capable of defending themselves without golems and they could even become your paid army to defend your kingdom, the addition of seasons to certain biomes would also be welcome.
Some people don't really care that much if their builds get ruined by either NPC's or players, and do want the extra drama in the game as to them it feels more realistic and gives them more problems to solve. At the same time though other people like you understandably would find that annoying and it would mean you would have less time to add more to your cities or castles when you're constantly having to worry about being raided by foreign invaders trying to take or destroy your stuff.
Both play styles are equally valid in their own right and do need a game mode that fits them,
and this I think is the best way Mojang can address the division between the two, leaving the game as it is now
is only adding fuel to the fire and other's in the community are being marginalized for no good reason.
As for resource farming by Villager trades, I hope you realize that by having a build oriented style of play sometimes resource farms are necessary and that some work is required in order to access certain trades, you don't get these items for free, you pay them emeralds which you earned by farming crops to trade with them. Because emerald ore is far too rare and impractical to rely on simply by mining for the item, it makes much more sense in game design, to have these items accessible by trading. Eliminating trades with Villagers would also make them useless and would also be an unacceptable compromise for fixing what other people consider "broken". Sometimes if you don't like a certain feature then the best way to deal with it is to simply ignore it, you are not being forced to use Villager trades if you don't like them.
Resource farms are not inherently broken and they do have a legitimate purpose for existing in the game.
i don't understand the discussion about structures. are they more prevalent in new maps? if i am playing a map while the upgrades to new versions are going on, do the upgrades add new structures in parts of the map i havent discovered yet? i didn't know you could get diamond stuff in the villages. i don't understand villages much but i will try to discover more there. so if you have to buy then you have to have emeralds and to get them you have to farm or do other things like paper and coal. that takes time and by then my village is unpopulated. haven't figured out how to repopulate the village. is a ruined portal the ones with a chest and a gold block? i guess i have too much learning to do to comment on too many structures...
That's why I don't like the implication that everything we get from Villagers are free, these these do take time to grind for, especially if you're trading items in large amounts and it's one reason why I didn't like the cooldown that was added in the trading system a while back. It doesn't make the game any harder to survive in or have any affect on mob counts at night, all it does is artificially inflate the amount of time you spend at your base or Villages trading.
I wouldn't mind Villager structures themselves being made rarer however, if you can't find a Village in the Overworld, then your next option to make your own is to cure a Zombie Villager, two if you wish to breed them or access different trades, a good alternative does exist in the game, and while you do need to seek out a Nether fortress in the Nether, Soul Sand and netherwart before you get to the potion brewing milestone, it is certainly doable and would encourage potion brewing earlier in the game.
After all what is the point in curing Zombie Villagers if you can just find Villagers so easily by them being so common throughout the Overworld generation? that I feel is handing players access to useful features far too easily, very little work is required to get to the point where you can farm trades.
I can't say about the current version (obviously) but these are all the structures present in the Overworld in TMCW, along with their frequency (attempts and/or actual, based on failure rates and/or biome frequency):
Underwater structures (ocean areas only):
Shipwreck / 361 chunks and 33% each of small/medium/large; large has a chest with loot
Underground structures (land areas only):
Normal Dungeon / 7.85 per chunk / 38.7 chunks
Mineshaft / 98 chunks / 181 chunks
Double Dungeon / 0.5 per chunk / 633 chunks
Stronghold / 8192 chunks (>= 800 blocks from 0,0)
Mesa Mineshaft / 98 chunks / 9450 chunks
For comparison, in vanilla most structures attempt to spawn once every 1024 chunks (once per 32x32 chunk region); if villages seem more common in newer versions it is only because they can spawn in more biomes, as well as spread into non-spawn biomes (in 1.6.4 and TMCW about 1/3 of attempts fail because there wasn't enough room to place at least 2 buildings, which must be placed entirely within a valid spawn biome). In fact, the base spawn rate of woodland mansions is over 32 times higher in TMCW (vanilla uses a grid size of 80x80 chunks while TMCW is only 14x14).
Dungeons are slightly more common than in vanilla 1.6.4 (about one every 42.6 chunks) while mineshafts are slightly more than half as common (one every 100 chunks, but linearly decreasing to none at the origin from 1280 blocks away; this means that TMCW has more mineshafts within 707 blocks). Both of these have changed significantly in newer versions; dungeons became about 2.5 times rarer in 1.7-1.17 (they are half as densely concentrated, plus there are less caves and mineshafts) while mineshafts were made 2.5 times less common in 1.7, but the reduction near the origin was removed in 1.13 (I have no idea about dungeons in 1.18 but ChunkBase shows the same mineshaft locations since 1.13 so they would be spread out over twice the volume).
Here is what I've actually found in an area about 30,000 chunks in size, a bit less than 3x3 level 3 maps (36864 chunks or 3072x3072 blocks) in a bit over 1,200 hours of playtime, with the majority of the time spent caving; I also included some rare mobs and valuable chest loot:
39 zombies in diamond armor
22 skeletons in diamond armor
12 zombies in amethyst armor
6 skeletons in amethyst armor
3 pink sheep
39 amethyst horse armor
19 Smelting books*
14 Vein Miner books*
12 enchanted golden apples
11 Mending books
9 Swift Sneak books#
5 Long Fall books#
1 sponge$
*True treasure enchantments (only found in structures; most common in double dungeons)
#Not added until later on so these are unrepresentative; most common in mineshafts
$Only a small amount of oceans have been explored; found in large shipwrecks and dungeons in ocean biomes
Even with a higher rate of attempts than in vanilla on average I only find one non-underground structure every 86 hours of playtime, or more than 3 weeks of daily playing, which is far from being that common; my current world is only one of two worlds I've ever had with a village within sight of spawn (until I start caving for fun after the "end-game" the only time I travel away from spawn is when I search for a stronghold to reach the End, which did lead me to a village in a previous world, but I'd already cured a couple zombie villagers in order to get Mending, and it was too far away to bother (it is very easy to cure zombie villagers).
For comparison, in my first world I've found 15 villages, 12 jungle temples, and 6 desert temples in about 120,000 chunks and 180 days of playtime, which amounts to one structure every 131 hours of playtime, or over a month of daily playing (I haven't kept track of witch huts as they are that unremarkable to me). I haven't kept track of underground structures either since I started playing on the world but from the amount of rails and moss stone I've collected and the average per structure I've found about 830 mineshafts and 2,120 dungeons, about twice as many mineshafts and about the same number of dungeons per hour spent caving.
Also, this shows how you need to be careful about making generalizations from a single world or a relatively small sample size/area (I calculated the overall frequencies based on the relative percentage of the biomes they spawn in and/or failure rates due to unsuitable terrain by greatly increasing their spawn rates and flying around); I've found two quartz desert pyramids, which statistically requires exploring 85,000 chunks (in fact, they were in the same biome, which was several times larger than usual), but I haven't found a single igloo, despite finding multiple biomes that may have them (in TMCWv4 I found 4 igloos in 3/4 the area, as well as 3 jungle temples; in my first world I should have found more desert temples as they have the same spawn rate as other temples and deserts are well-represented).
Of course, my playstyle matters a lot; I only explore about 100 chunks (160x160 blocks) per play session and when caving I thoroughly explore everything, not just run through looking for something specific; even with as many dungeons as I've found I've only averaged about one every two hours; likewise, I consider caving to be a bad way to find diamonds based on my experience of about 4-5 ores per hour but you could find dungeons/diamonds much faster if you specifically looked for them (as far as trading for diamond gear goes, I do this in my first world for fun; I have no need to conserve diamonds, and actually, this lets me save every diamond I collect, which is part of why I added amethyst gear in TMCW, itself originally based on a mod; as far as TMCW goes, I only trade to get Mending at the start of a world, never trading afterwards).
Look, from a layman's perspective just sensing or intuiting changes, several forum users have said there are far too many structures while others whine on for more and more. I don't have the time or energy to mathematically discern "the right amount", I just know what people say and personally I'm ambivalent because I'm lazy and like structures but also dislike the game letting me be lazy and rewarding me too much when isolation is nice at times.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Personally I see a lot of recent structure additions as fluff content. Microsoft is afraid to develop the game further than adding a new mob or new block or biome, so they add something else to explore. It's a growing trend of completely disrupting player progression in a world and focusing more on the adventure aspect, while ignoring mechanics that could be added on or fixed.
Personally I see a lot of recent structure additions as fluff content. Microsoft is afraid to develop the game further than adding a new mob or new block or biome, so they add something else to explore. It's a growing trend of completely disrupting player progression in a world and focusing more on the adventure aspect, while ignoring mechanics that could be added on or fixed.
Sorry for the late reply, but yes, this is what many people attest to.
Personally I don't mind fluff content, but I admit we need fleshing out of the main story and mechanics.
New structures are the only meaningful new content the game seems to get, since the Nether Update. The world of Minecraft is so empty and lifeless in the biomes that have no structures, you literally just skip over them entirely when looking for stuff to do. Birch forest? Nothing in it but beehives, so if you have those, SKIP. Normal oak forests? Nothing at all interesting in them. SKIP. Barren snow land without even any trees? SKIP. Savannah with no villages in it? SKIP.
You get the point. When people are travelling their worlds looking for stuff, they're not looking for Common Biome Number 1,000,000. They're looking for INTERESTING THINGS.
Now, if the development of this game had continued in a more organic direction where we continued to get new "decoration" mobs to flesh out the biomes and more exclusive functions/items in them, it would be different, but right now the overwhelming majority of the game's biomes are completely worthless to the average player. Put simply, this game is extremely dated and needs to seriously get a move on with new stuff. The current model is not working. I'd be 100% down to have paid updates if it means we could get drastically better stuff (or even a completely new game done from scratch) and more often than we have been for the last 5+ years. The rate of content additions to the game, for the quality that they are, is absolutely glacial and unacceptable from an IP that is one of the most influential titans of the gaming industry.
New structures are the only meaningful new content the game seems to get, since the Nether Update. The world of Minecraft is so empty and lifeless in the biomes that have no structures, you literally just skip over them entirely when looking for stuff to do. Birch forest? Nothing in it but beehives, so if you have those, SKIP. Normal oak forests? Nothing at all interesting in them. SKIP. Barren snow land without even any trees? SKIP. Savannah with no villages in it? SKIP.
You get the point. When people are travelling their worlds looking for stuff, they're not looking for Common Biome Number 1,000,000. They're looking for INTERESTING THINGS.
Now, if the development of this game had continued in a more organic direction where we continued to get new "decoration" mobs to flesh out the biomes and more exclusive functions/items in them, it would be different, but right now the overwhelming majority of the game's biomes are completely worthless to the average player. Put simply, this game is extremely dated and needs to seriously get a move on with new stuff. The current model is not working. I'd be 100% down to have paid updates if it means we could get drastically better stuff (or even a completely new game done from scratch) and more often than we have been for the last 5+ years. The rate of content additions to the game, for the quality that they are, is absolutely glacial and unacceptable from an IP that is one of the most influential titans of the gaming industry.
Now, if the development of this game had continued in a more organic direction where we continued to get new "decoration" mobs to flesh out the biomes
The only issue with this is that everybody always complains when they add new mobs with little uses besides "decoration", such as polar bears and glow squid, and back in the day, bats. Not that it bothers me; in fact, I'd add more such mobs if it were easier to add them (mainly due to the models); naturally, a mob should have useful drops (besides food; I find glow ink sacs to be quite useful when making map walls that are evenly lit, and also extended the mechanic to include paintings - maybe even any entity/mob could be made to glow) or gameplay mechanics (polar bears do present a hazard as a semi-neutral mob, and have a unique aggression mechanic when getting too close to a parent with children; I expanded them further by adding brown and black bears, the latter hostile by default until you feed them).
Also, new biomes/structures are meaningless when world generation remains as hideous as it has since 1.7; I'd barely ever find anything at all unless I played on the same world for years, and 1.18 made the issue much worse, even ignoring the fact it might take me twice as long to explore a given area due to the underground being twice as deep (if the density of caves is similar to pre-1.7):
I overlayed my current world, which I've played on for over a year / 60 days of playtime, over a random seed in 1.18+; some single biomes in 1.18 are almost as large, like that crazy huge area of desert to the right (sure, it might have tons of desert temples, villages, and fossils and whatever new structures might be added but otherwise absolutely no variety, even my biome-specific undergrounds just means endless sandstone-themed caves for months of daily playing; by contrast, I might take a few days to explore an average sized desert prior to 1.7, and not remaining entirely within it the whole time).
The only issue with this is that everybody always complains when they add new mobs with little uses besides "decoration", such as polar bears and glow squid, and back in the day, bats. Not that it bothers me; in fact, I'd add more such mobs if it were easier to add them (mainly due to the models); naturally, a mob should have useful drops (besides food; I find glow ink sacs to be quite useful when making map walls that are evenly lit, and also extended the mechanic to include paintings - maybe even any entity/mob could be made to glow) or gameplay mechanics (polar bears do present a hazard as a semi-neutral mob, and have a unique aggression mechanic when getting too close to a parent with children; I expanded them further by adding brown and black bears, the latter hostile by default until you feed them).
Also, new biomes/structures are meaningless when world generation remains as hideous as it has since 1.7; I'd barely ever find anything at all unless I played on the same world for years, and 1.18 made the issue much worse, even ignoring the fact it might take me twice as long to explore a given area due to the underground being twice as deep (if the density of caves is similar to pre-1.7):
I overlayed my current world, which I've played on for over a year / 60 days of playtime, over a random seed in 1.18+; some single biomes in 1.18 are almost as large, like that crazy huge area of desert to the right (sure, it might have tons of desert temples, villages, and fossils and whatever new structures might be added but otherwise absolutely no variety, even my biome-specific undergrounds just means endless sandstone-themed caves for months of daily playing; by contrast, I might take a few days to explore an average sized desert prior to 1.7, and not remaining entirely within it the whole time).
There is a lot of rush-through and pick-what-you-like with such huge biomes. I agree that smaller denser biomes could still have interesting stuff without so much 'waste space' and time spent walking.
I did notice when updating my main world that the area I carried forward would have had only three natural villages in it (two rather close, one of which was like two buildings, funny enough, so you could really say two and a half), and looking at a similar amount of the new generated space, there were MUCH more villages.
My preferred balance probably would have been somewhere near the middle, maybe more towards newer rates (because they were just that rare in older versions, or at least in my particular world they were).
If people dislike the easy access to the loot they offer, well that's another reason we need more world customization settings. Options to customize both structure frequency AND loot would work towards letting everyone find their happy medium.
But as it is, it's okay by me. Maybe not my ideal, but definitely not enough to bother me either. I don't at all mind the things like shipwrecks, ruined nether portals, or jungle or desert temples existing as they are (like villages, the temples in particular can seem more common, especially in the case of desert temples, but I presume that's largely a result of the climate system and causing a "once you find one, you'll likely find many due to the stretch of desert you'll now see" situation).
The only issue with this is that everybody always complains when they add new mobs with little uses besides "decoration", such as polar bears and glow squid, and back in the day, bats.
Except I covered that by also stipulating that other functional and desirable things would need to be added to the biomes as well. The Minecraft world has been in absolutely dire need of overhauling for a very long time, and the rate the developers are working is mind-bogglingly slow. There is something deeply wrong with their creative process if the stuff we've gotten in the last 5+ years is the best they can do. The cave update is the ONLY one I think was a solid showing for the time they spent on it. The updates themed around the ocean, the Nether, and the End were all disastrously underwhelming, with only a couple of items/mobs/structures from each having any lasting impact on the game.
The ocean update gave us the perfect opportunity to put some new aquatic hostile mobs in the game, and they could pull inspiration from the entirety of both real and fictional aquatic creatures, and we got... a water zombie. What else did we get that made the update noteworthy? Coral reefs, which most normal players go "ah, that's neat" and then sail past, tridents, and ocean ruins, which most normal players go "ah, that's neat" and then sail past. This is all they accomplished in an entire year of work.
The nether update gave us the perfect opportunity to put some new hell-esque demon mobs into the game, and they could pull from the entirety of all established occult stuff for inspiration, or even just make Nether versions of existing Minecraft fauna. What did we get? A new brand of bipedal pig, and a warthog. Not a devilish warthog. Just a warthog. The strider is both so ugly and irrelevant that I don't even consider it an addition to the game. The Nether update did fairly well with the biomes we got, but we only got 4 new ones, all of which are made of only 2-4 new blocks, but their vision of "being able to live in the Nether" was a laughable fantasy with the implementation. This is all they accomplished in an entire year of work.
What did we get in the update to the End? End Cities, which are literally still the ONLY thing to do in the End after the dragon fight, Elytras, and End Rods. I've literally never seen anyone use Purpur for a single thing because the block's textures and colors are so unappealing (and mind you, purple is my favorite color, just not Laffy Taffy Grape purple) and don't match or go with anything, we got shulkers for a new mob and that's it, and the End other than cities is still the single most dated, boring, lifeless part of the game. This is all they accomplished in an entire year of work. If it wasn't for shulker boxes and elytras, it would have been the most useless update of all time.
I could go on, but the gist of it is that my entire friend group that used to play Minecraft quite a lot have all moved on, and none of us including me can stand to play it anymore because we've had to restart worlds so many times for updates and done the whole rigamarole too many times to be motivated to do it again. The game is dead.
Except I covered that by also stipulating that other functional and desirable things would need to be added to the biomes as well. The Minecraft world has been in absolutely dire need of overhauling for a very long time, and the rate the developers are working is mind-bogglingly slow. There is something deeply wrong with their creative process if the stuff we've gotten in the last 5+ years is the best they can do.
I think much of this is a result of how big the entire process has become. Minecraft is now Java and Bedrock and has many, many more people working on it than it did in its earlier days. Even if they're not all "developers", things can tend to slow way down when that happens.
I said it above, but when buying a product, you get what you get at the time of purchase. I bought the game at version 1.2.5. Everything since then has been FREE content. I really have little room to complain. I can always stay with older versions, and it's not always necessary to start a new world for new versions. Yes, sometimes updates make things difficult if you want things a certain way. I had a 1.2.5 world I recently updated to 1.18 and along the way in the past, I became WELL aware of the issues you would have to consider. But nothing was FORCING me to do it. And 1.18's terrain blending has made one of the major obstacles almost irrelevant, so things are in a far better state these days.
You might have to consider (not saying this is the case) that after playing it for years, and restarting multiple times, you might be bored with it. A game holding ones interest for years and years let alone a decade is a tall ask. Sure, it happens, but it's also much more common for one to get bored before that time.
See polls above!
First off, I want to apologize about my behavior. I was scared that TheMasterCaver would hurt himself soon after posting his message. I thought I would be a cad If I didn't do all in my power to prevent it; And for all of that, I apologize.
Second. I feel like ruined portals are a bit too common.
I asked some old friends to meet him. Not much else I can do with this little energy.
ruined portals definitely feel too common even with the reduction they had from their first snapshot
I can argue that underwater structs of all kinds are too common as well as villages, but this is normal.
Rant incoming.
There's probablly going to0 be few that actually agree with me but yes, I think there are too many structures in the game now, and for some obscure reason some players want even more. When it was just villages and a couple of temples it was fine but now with all the underwater ruins, shipwrecks (Which I'm including), and ruined portals (Something I hadn't even considered) it just feels like too much. Too much crammed in with too little else.
Remember when you used to have to actually mine and get some decent iron armor and work your way up to diamond (Now diamond+) armor? Not any more! Now you can just find a village if you don't spawn near one, and buy all diamond armor! Why work for it, when you can just buy it! Unless your doing a specific style of gameplay (Say speed running) then for survival it now just feels.. cheap now. The same way you could just not work or earn anything, just boat around for underwater ruins and get instant gratification. Cheap.
Rather than add more, I personally think it's just time to stop. I actually disagree with whitelight or whater that youtuber's name is and adding more NPCs and the whole "What good is a castle if you've noone to protect it), what next - NPCs that do for you quests for you or you have to do for them? If that's the case then that should only be a specific gameplay mode not universal.
I would like it to be more biome pecific, because biome diversity has long been a problem. If you've seen one type of biome with no assertable differences for itself then you'll see it endless times throughout the game and that has also long been a problem in the game. What happenned to the other biome updates in polls like the savanna? Now forgotten about and not even vagley interesting as a biome any more. In a snow biome and desert biome you might get a village, maybe a temple in the latter but that's the only thing that makes them interesting compared to something like old taiga with wierd cobble/mossy cobble placements (Almost like tombs) podzol course dirt. Let alone in the standard taiga's wiith mushrooms and sweet berries.
I think you can make the game more interesting enough with biome diversity than simply shoving more and more structures into the game hinting at an unwritten lore (Especially if they ever do add pottery or officially annouce they [Mojang] are abandoning it for ever). Case in point - the deep dark. If it was just the actual warden itself I guess that's one thing, but no. Again they have to go and add ancient cities and structures and shove even more - what I feel personally is uneeded, structures in there.
That's just my feelings however, /rant, and I will probably die alone standing on this viewpoint; but you did want opinions and these are mine whether anyone else after agrees or disagrees.
Closed old thread
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i don't understand the discussion about structures. are they more prevalent in new maps? if i am playing a map while the upgrades to new versions are going on, do the upgrades add new structures in parts of the map i havent discovered yet? i didn't know you could get diamond stuff in the villages. i don't understand villages much but i will try to discover more there. so if you have to buy then you have to have emeralds and to get them you have to farm or do other things like paper and coal. that takes time and by then my village is unpopulated. haven't figured out how to repopulate the village. is a ruined portal the ones with a chest and a gold block? i guess i have too much learning to do to comment on too many structures...
Pulling a posthumous TMC: no, structs don't spawn in existing areas EXCEPT monuments in ocean chunks you spent less than 2? 5? minutes in after 1.8.
You need to learn villager mechanics. Villagers are easy to game if you have no soul (i.e. mass farm everything, and change workstations and add many beds).
I certainly agree with you and this is exactly why I made the topic. I would prefer the rarification of many in-game structures, especially if new ones still come up. Underground ones also now feel common due to larger caves, except cities which are weird but fine.
Villages being hackable: again, yes, but the game's mood and immersion dies the second you grind for emeralds - which is why I avoid mob farms and most redstone. It ceases to be Amnesia: The Dark Descent style fantasy world, and goes to Farming Simulator. Meh.
Whitelight proposed adding in more variants of survival mode as a fix for people who disagree with him, I think context is important here, he isn't trying to force his proposals down everyone else's throats, which is one reason I respect his opinion on what should be done with the game and his ideas are actually consistent with the spirit of the game's sandbox element which makes his arguments valid.
If your survival play-style is collect resources, building but only occasional or situational combat like mine, then under his system you would still get to play the game in this manner, that wouldn't change. What Whitelight proposed is a different game mode which allows people who want the extra challenges to pursue them so now NPC's are capable of demolishing player structures through illager raids and Villagers would also be capable of defending themselves without golems and they could even become your paid army to defend your kingdom, the addition of seasons to certain biomes would also be welcome.
Some people don't really care that much if their builds get ruined by either NPC's or players, and do want the extra drama in the game as to them it feels more realistic and gives them more problems to solve. At the same time though other people like you understandably would find that annoying and it would mean you would have less time to add more to your cities or castles when you're constantly having to worry about being raided by foreign invaders trying to take or destroy your stuff.
Both play styles are equally valid in their own right and do need a game mode that fits them,
and this I think is the best way Mojang can address the division between the two, leaving the game as it is now
is only adding fuel to the fire and other's in the community are being marginalized for no good reason.
As for resource farming by Villager trades, I hope you realize that by having a build oriented style of play sometimes resource farms are necessary and that some work is required in order to access certain trades, you don't get these items for free, you pay them emeralds which you earned by farming crops to trade with them. Because emerald ore is far too rare and impractical to rely on simply by mining for the item, it makes much more sense in game design, to have these items accessible by trading. Eliminating trades with Villagers would also make them useless and would also be an unacceptable compromise for fixing what other people consider "broken". Sometimes if you don't like a certain feature then the best way to deal with it is to simply ignore it, you are not being forced to use Villager trades if you don't like them.
Resource farms are not inherently broken and they do have a legitimate purpose for existing in the game.
That's why I don't like the implication that everything we get from Villagers are free, these these do take time to grind for, especially if you're trading items in large amounts and it's one reason why I didn't like the cooldown that was added in the trading system a while back. It doesn't make the game any harder to survive in or have any affect on mob counts at night, all it does is artificially inflate the amount of time you spend at your base or Villages trading.
I wouldn't mind Villager structures themselves being made rarer however, if you can't find a Village in the Overworld, then your next option to make your own is to cure a Zombie Villager, two if you wish to breed them or access different trades, a good alternative does exist in the game, and while you do need to seek out a Nether fortress in the Nether, Soul Sand and netherwart before you get to the potion brewing milestone, it is certainly doable and would encourage potion brewing earlier in the game.
After all what is the point in curing Zombie Villagers if you can just find Villagers so easily by them being so common throughout the Overworld generation? that I feel is handing players access to useful features far too easily, very little work is required to get to the point where you can farm trades.
I can't say about the current version (obviously) but these are all the structures present in the Overworld in TMCW, along with their frequency (attempts and/or actual, based on failure rates and/or biome frequency):
For comparison, in vanilla most structures attempt to spawn once every 1024 chunks (once per 32x32 chunk region); if villages seem more common in newer versions it is only because they can spawn in more biomes, as well as spread into non-spawn biomes (in 1.6.4 and TMCW about 1/3 of attempts fail because there wasn't enough room to place at least 2 buildings, which must be placed entirely within a valid spawn biome). In fact, the base spawn rate of woodland mansions is over 32 times higher in TMCW (vanilla uses a grid size of 80x80 chunks while TMCW is only 14x14).Dungeons are slightly more common than in vanilla 1.6.4 (about one every 42.6 chunks) while mineshafts are slightly more than half as common (one every 100 chunks, but linearly decreasing to none at the origin from 1280 blocks away; this means that TMCW has more mineshafts within 707 blocks). Both of these have changed significantly in newer versions; dungeons became about 2.5 times rarer in 1.7-1.17 (they are half as densely concentrated, plus there are less caves and mineshafts) while mineshafts were made 2.5 times less common in 1.7, but the reduction near the origin was removed in 1.13 (I have no idea about dungeons in 1.18 but ChunkBase shows the same mineshaft locations since 1.13 so they would be spread out over twice the volume).
Here is what I've actually found in an area about 30,000 chunks in size, a bit less than 3x3 level 3 maps (36864 chunks or 3072x3072 blocks) in a bit over 1,200 hours of playtime, with the majority of the time spent caving; I also included some rare mobs and valuable chest loot:
Even with a higher rate of attempts than in vanilla on average I only find one non-underground structure every 86 hours of playtime, or more than 3 weeks of daily playing, which is far from being that common; my current world is only one of two worlds I've ever had with a village within sight of spawn (until I start caving for fun after the "end-game" the only time I travel away from spawn is when I search for a stronghold to reach the End, which did lead me to a village in a previous world, but I'd already cured a couple zombie villagers in order to get Mending, and it was too far away to bother (it is very easy to cure zombie villagers).
For comparison, in my first world I've found 15 villages, 12 jungle temples, and 6 desert temples in about 120,000 chunks and 180 days of playtime, which amounts to one structure every 131 hours of playtime, or over a month of daily playing (I haven't kept track of witch huts as they are that unremarkable to me). I haven't kept track of underground structures either since I started playing on the world but from the amount of rails and moss stone I've collected and the average per structure I've found about 830 mineshafts and 2,120 dungeons, about twice as many mineshafts and about the same number of dungeons per hour spent caving.
Also, this shows how you need to be careful about making generalizations from a single world or a relatively small sample size/area (I calculated the overall frequencies based on the relative percentage of the biomes they spawn in and/or failure rates due to unsuitable terrain by greatly increasing their spawn rates and flying around); I've found two quartz desert pyramids, which statistically requires exploring 85,000 chunks (in fact, they were in the same biome, which was several times larger than usual), but I haven't found a single igloo, despite finding multiple biomes that may have them (in TMCWv4 I found 4 igloos in 3/4 the area, as well as 3 jungle temples; in my first world I should have found more desert temples as they have the same spawn rate as other temples and deserts are well-represented).
Of course, my playstyle matters a lot; I only explore about 100 chunks (160x160 blocks) per play session and when caving I thoroughly explore everything, not just run through looking for something specific; even with as many dungeons as I've found I've only averaged about one every two hours; likewise, I consider caving to be a bad way to find diamonds based on my experience of about 4-5 ores per hour but you could find dungeons/diamonds much faster if you specifically looked for them (as far as trading for diamond gear goes, I do this in my first world for fun; I have no need to conserve diamonds, and actually, this lets me save every diamond I collect, which is part of why I added amethyst gear in TMCW, itself originally based on a mod; as far as TMCW goes, I only trade to get Mending at the start of a world, never trading afterwards).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Look, from a layman's perspective just sensing or intuiting changes, several forum users have said there are far too many structures while others whine on for more and more. I don't have the time or energy to mathematically discern "the right amount", I just know what people say and personally I'm ambivalent because I'm lazy and like structures but also dislike the game letting me be lazy and rewarding me too much when isolation is nice at times.
I haven't touched any version past 1.16.5 couse my potato can't even run them.
Anyway, i'm an overworld nomad. I love exploring & caving. I love to expose myself to the dangers of the night.
I don't even enter the end anymore, i use datapacks instead to make ElderGuardians drop shulker boxes.
I'm perfectly fine without the elytra.
From this perspective, i can only WANT more structures.
Kinda like rl-craft. That would be a good portion to me.
Especially when it comes to ruined structures.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Personally I see a lot of recent structure additions as fluff content. Microsoft is afraid to develop the game further than adding a new mob or new block or biome, so they add something else to explore. It's a growing trend of completely disrupting player progression in a world and focusing more on the adventure aspect, while ignoring mechanics that could be added on or fixed.
Sorry for the late reply, but yes, this is what many people attest to.
Personally I don't mind fluff content, but I admit we need fleshing out of the main story and mechanics.
New structures are the only meaningful new content the game seems to get, since the Nether Update. The world of Minecraft is so empty and lifeless in the biomes that have no structures, you literally just skip over them entirely when looking for stuff to do. Birch forest? Nothing in it but beehives, so if you have those, SKIP. Normal oak forests? Nothing at all interesting in them. SKIP. Barren snow land without even any trees? SKIP. Savannah with no villages in it? SKIP.
You get the point. When people are travelling their worlds looking for stuff, they're not looking for Common Biome Number 1,000,000. They're looking for INTERESTING THINGS.
Now, if the development of this game had continued in a more organic direction where we continued to get new "decoration" mobs to flesh out the biomes and more exclusive functions/items in them, it would be different, but right now the overwhelming majority of the game's biomes are completely worthless to the average player. Put simply, this game is extremely dated and needs to seriously get a move on with new stuff. The current model is not working. I'd be 100% down to have paid updates if it means we could get drastically better stuff (or even a completely new game done from scratch) and more often than we have been for the last 5+ years. The rate of content additions to the game, for the quality that they are, is absolutely glacial and unacceptable from an IP that is one of the most influential titans of the gaming industry.
100% on the money.
The only issue with this is that everybody always complains when they add new mobs with little uses besides "decoration", such as polar bears and glow squid, and back in the day, bats. Not that it bothers me; in fact, I'd add more such mobs if it were easier to add them (mainly due to the models); naturally, a mob should have useful drops (besides food; I find glow ink sacs to be quite useful when making map walls that are evenly lit, and also extended the mechanic to include paintings - maybe even any entity/mob could be made to glow) or gameplay mechanics (polar bears do present a hazard as a semi-neutral mob, and have a unique aggression mechanic when getting too close to a parent with children; I expanded them further by adding brown and black bears, the latter hostile by default until you feed them).
Also, new biomes/structures are meaningless when world generation remains as hideous as it has since 1.7; I'd barely ever find anything at all unless I played on the same world for years, and 1.18 made the issue much worse, even ignoring the fact it might take me twice as long to explore a given area due to the underground being twice as deep (if the density of caves is similar to pre-1.7):
I overlayed my current world, which I've played on for over a year / 60 days of playtime, over a random seed in 1.18+; some single biomes in 1.18 are almost as large, like that crazy huge area of desert to the right (sure, it might have tons of desert temples, villages, and fossils and whatever new structures might be added but otherwise absolutely no variety, even my biome-specific undergrounds just means endless sandstone-themed caves for months of daily playing; by contrast, I might take a few days to explore an average sized desert prior to 1.7, and not remaining entirely within it the whole time).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
There is a lot of rush-through and pick-what-you-like with such huge biomes. I agree that smaller denser biomes could still have interesting stuff without so much 'waste space' and time spent walking.
I'm pretty indifferent on this overall I suppose.
I did notice when updating my main world that the area I carried forward would have had only three natural villages in it (two rather close, one of which was like two buildings, funny enough, so you could really say two and a half), and looking at a similar amount of the new generated space, there were MUCH more villages.
My preferred balance probably would have been somewhere near the middle, maybe more towards newer rates (because they were just that rare in older versions, or at least in my particular world they were).
If people dislike the easy access to the loot they offer, well that's another reason we need more world customization settings. Options to customize both structure frequency AND loot would work towards letting everyone find their happy medium.
But as it is, it's okay by me. Maybe not my ideal, but definitely not enough to bother me either. I don't at all mind the things like shipwrecks, ruined nether portals, or jungle or desert temples existing as they are (like villages, the temples in particular can seem more common, especially in the case of desert temples, but I presume that's largely a result of the climate system and causing a "once you find one, you'll likely find many due to the stretch of desert you'll now see" situation).
Except I covered that by also stipulating that other functional and desirable things would need to be added to the biomes as well. The Minecraft world has been in absolutely dire need of overhauling for a very long time, and the rate the developers are working is mind-bogglingly slow. There is something deeply wrong with their creative process if the stuff we've gotten in the last 5+ years is the best they can do. The cave update is the ONLY one I think was a solid showing for the time they spent on it. The updates themed around the ocean, the Nether, and the End were all disastrously underwhelming, with only a couple of items/mobs/structures from each having any lasting impact on the game.
The ocean update gave us the perfect opportunity to put some new aquatic hostile mobs in the game, and they could pull inspiration from the entirety of both real and fictional aquatic creatures, and we got... a water zombie. What else did we get that made the update noteworthy? Coral reefs, which most normal players go "ah, that's neat" and then sail past, tridents, and ocean ruins, which most normal players go "ah, that's neat" and then sail past. This is all they accomplished in an entire year of work.
The nether update gave us the perfect opportunity to put some new hell-esque demon mobs into the game, and they could pull from the entirety of all established occult stuff for inspiration, or even just make Nether versions of existing Minecraft fauna. What did we get? A new brand of bipedal pig, and a warthog. Not a devilish warthog. Just a warthog. The strider is both so ugly and irrelevant that I don't even consider it an addition to the game. The Nether update did fairly well with the biomes we got, but we only got 4 new ones, all of which are made of only 2-4 new blocks, but their vision of "being able to live in the Nether" was a laughable fantasy with the implementation. This is all they accomplished in an entire year of work.
What did we get in the update to the End? End Cities, which are literally still the ONLY thing to do in the End after the dragon fight, Elytras, and End Rods. I've literally never seen anyone use Purpur for a single thing because the block's textures and colors are so unappealing (and mind you, purple is my favorite color, just not Laffy Taffy Grape purple) and don't match or go with anything, we got shulkers for a new mob and that's it, and the End other than cities is still the single most dated, boring, lifeless part of the game. This is all they accomplished in an entire year of work. If it wasn't for shulker boxes and elytras, it would have been the most useless update of all time.
I could go on, but the gist of it is that my entire friend group that used to play Minecraft quite a lot have all moved on, and none of us including me can stand to play it anymore because we've had to restart worlds so many times for updates and done the whole rigamarole too many times to be motivated to do it again. The game is dead.
Players cannot make biomes but can make structures, so of course I would vote respectively.
But biomes are hard to make it look good and if it looks bad, it will be difficult to erase from your world.
I think much of this is a result of how big the entire process has become. Minecraft is now Java and Bedrock and has many, many more people working on it than it did in its earlier days. Even if they're not all "developers", things can tend to slow way down when that happens.
I said it above, but when buying a product, you get what you get at the time of purchase. I bought the game at version 1.2.5. Everything since then has been FREE content. I really have little room to complain. I can always stay with older versions, and it's not always necessary to start a new world for new versions. Yes, sometimes updates make things difficult if you want things a certain way. I had a 1.2.5 world I recently updated to 1.18 and along the way in the past, I became WELL aware of the issues you would have to consider. But nothing was FORCING me to do it. And 1.18's terrain blending has made one of the major obstacles almost irrelevant, so things are in a far better state these days.
You might have to consider (not saying this is the case) that after playing it for years, and restarting multiple times, you might be bored with it. A game holding ones interest for years and years let alone a decade is a tall ask. Sure, it happens, but it's also much more common for one to get bored before that time.