Not really, and I would agree with being able to access the moon, while not technically counted as another dimension, it could be treated as one by game design for the purposes of simplicity.
It has been done in the Galacticraft mod, why shouldn't it be done as a legitimate feature? there are other options to add in dimensions but personally I consider the idea of allowing players to reach the moon just by climbing blocks a horrible idea, as it would only be accessible at night time and it would likely mean adding in a build height of several hundreds of thousands of blocks, making the whole process tedious.
It would be better to allow the moon to be accessed via some portal,
but then we are going to need some new enchantments to be added to make at least a little bit of sense out of
how players are able to survive in such a hostile environment.
Anti Radical could be added as a new enchantment to protect against radiation,
And adding another enchantment called Moon Walker could grant immunity to the vacuum of space and thus suffocation,
but be made incompatible with Respiration enchantments. Anti Radical could be obtained from Villager Trades or dungeons in Overworld of course, while the Moon Walker enchantment could be exclusive to UFO crash sites on the moon.
should there be hostile mobs on the moon? perhaps,
but first we need to make the environment liveable before considering this.
Not really, and I would agree with being able to access the moon, while not technically counted as another dimension, it could be treated as one by game design for the purposes of simplicity.
It has been done in the Galacticraft mod, why shouldn't it be done as a legitimate feature? there are other options to add in dimensions but personally I consider the idea of allowing players to reach the moon just by climbing blocks a horrible idea, as it would only be accessible at night time and it would likely mean adding in a build height of several hundreds of thousands of blocks, making the whole process tedious.
It would be better to allow the moon to be accessed via some portal,
but then we are going to need some new enchantments to be added to make at least a little bit of sense out of
how players are able to survive in such a hostile environment.
Anti Radical could be added as a new enchantment to protect against radiation,
And adding another enchantment called Moon Walker could grant immunity to the vacuum of space and thus suffocation,
but be made incompatible with Respiration enchantments. Anti Radical could be obtained from Villager Trades or dungeons in Overworld of course, while the Moon Walker enchantment could be exclusive to UFO crash sites on the moon.
should there be hostile mobs on the moon? perhaps,
but first we need to make the environment liveable before considering this.
The Galacticraft Mod as far as I know seems to be no longer updated? I feel like Minecraft should incorporate something like it into the actual game itself. Perhaps with it's own planets and Moons. I would suggest for the Moon in Minecraft to have multiple biomes and to actually be habitable in certain areas. The Moon should have an atmosphere, I think that would be interesting.
The End isn't really the Moon. I think the End needs some major development, the End doesn't strike me as interesting as it could be.
The Galacticraft Mod as far as I know seems to be no longer updated? I feel like Minecraft should incorporate something like it into the actual game itself. Perhaps with it's own planets and Moons. I would suggest for the Moon in Minecraft to have multiple biomes and to actually be habitable in certain areas. The Moon should have an atmosphere, I think that would be interesting.
Space exploration wouldn't be out of place in a game like this but each of the individual planets or moons that could be visited would need something interesting to encourage people to visit them.
We don't even need spacecrafts to be added to the game to make this practical, just add portals and players could build stargates to each individual planet or moon worth visiting.
Imagine if the moon Europa and the planet Jupiter got added to the game, while Jupiter shouldn't be habitable in the game, and nor should Europa without any gear that protected players from the conditions there, Europa could have an interesting landscape on it, having the distant stars still be visible even during the day time in the sky, and the majority of the surface being covered with ice with liquid water underneath.
Mars could be made already terraformed, giving it Earth-like features and biomes, and likewise it could have the same hostile mobs spawning there as on Earth, but it could also have abandoned Martian buildings, only some containing villagers, adding a bit of mystery to it, implying that alien technology had already terraformed the planet long before the time period players were there.
Space exploration wouldn't be out of place in a game like this but each of the individual planets or moons that could be visited would need something interesting to encourage people to visit them.
We don't even need spacecrafts to be added to the game to make this practical, just add portals and players could build stargates to each individual planet or moon worth visiting.
Imagine if the moon Europa and the planet Jupiter got added to the game, while Jupiter shouldn't be habitable in the game, and nor should Europa without any gear that protected players from the conditions there, Europa could have an interesting landscape on it, having the distant stars still be visible even during the day time in the sky, and the majority of the surface being covered with ice with liquid water underneath.
Mars could be made already terraformed, giving it Earth-like features and biomes, and likewise it could have the same hostile mobs spawning there as on Earth, but it could also have abandoned Martian buildings, only some containing villagers, adding a bit of mystery to it, implying that alien technology had already terraformed the planet long before the time period players were there.
Europa would be interesting. I much prefer portals and stargates to spaceships. Europa could be covered by a vast frozen ocean with unique ice-based biomes. Ice aliens and ice based mobs. Jupiter covering half of the sky, and of course it would be tidally locked so day-night cycles last a lot longer.
Mars would be interesting as Terraformed, I imagine it would have vast areas similar to the Mesa Biome, but more liveable. Abandoned Martian buildings and portals leading to other planets and moons. I would suggest that Phobos and Deimos be able to be visited as well, although the world can physically be smaller since those moons are so tiny.
Europa would be interesting. I much prefer portals and stargates to spaceships. Europa could be covered by a vast frozen ocean with unique ice-based biomes. Ice aliens and ice based mobs. Jupiter covering half of the sky, and of course it would be tidally locked so day-night cycles last a lot longer.
Mars would be interesting as Terraformed, I imagine it would have vast areas similar to the Mesa Biome, but more liveable. Abandoned Martian buildings and portals leading to other planets and moons. I would suggest that Phobos and Deimos be able to be visited as well, although the world can physically be smaller since those moons are so tiny.
And Europa could be used as an ice mine dig site, of course players could seek out an Ice biome in the Overworld/Earth, but depending on how RNG plays out and what world seed they're on this may take them too long.
There are many reasons why someone may want to have an ice mine in the game, making a basalt generator is a small percentage of the reasons.
They may want to use it for high speed transportation, or building igloos with packed ice.
Having life underneath the Europa surface as well as underwater magma pits although hazardous, would make Europa a more interesting moon than just being a lifeless ice ball in orbit around Jupiter.
But because there is very little light there, the underwater section in the mantle of Europa 128 blocks below the surface could be made extremely dark, necessitating the use of potions of night vision to swim through safely, and the player would need to be careful not to go over sections where magma pits were present or they would be sucked down and therefore they would risk either drowning or death by being damaged on the magma block itself.
But having a gigantic and ocean underneath with fish even, would create interesting opportunities for players to build under water cities,
and these oceans could be made much deeper than any ocean on Earth/Overworld, extending to a maximum depth of -192 from 63.
How would any player survive at these depths? they have options like water breathing potions, building conduits, a respiration 4 enchantment found in books located at abandoned observatories on Europa itself, doubling the amount of time a player can remain submerged without drowning, bringing soul sand or magma blocks for making bubble columns to breath with etc.
However, Minecraft has been one of the most popular video games for over a decade, and it continues to have a large player base and community. The game has evolved over the years with new updates, features, and additions, and while some players may prefer the earlier versions of the game, many others continue to enjoy playing it. It is also worth noting that opinions about video games can be subjective, and what one person may perceive as "losing its touch," may not be the same for others. But in my case yes, it's!
And since 1.18 expanded the terrain generation and build height, instead of forbidding players to go above the bedrock layer on the roof of the Nether
I would suggest adding limbo, the topmost layer of the netherworld, it looks like the Nether still, but this upper layer has no lava and the landscape above Y 128 has a black sky, not red, giving it the "outer darkness" feel.
And the netherrack landscape that generates above this region it has a higher probability of generating warped forests, meaning more Endermen spawn and are a potential hazard for players to traverse this landscape.
Skeletons could also spawn in this upper region but in the soul sand valleys which also have a higher chance to generate at the uppermost layer of the Nether.
and all the landscape would be surrounded by hills including steep cliffs which subject the player to fall damage, some of the drops being 100 blocks worth meaning players need to be careful, and they can no longer just cheese the upper layer of the Nether for a hazardless shortcut through the Overworld, they still have to deal with hostile and some neutral mobs as well as difficult terrain.
Although this means the bedrock layer at the top will be replaced giving players a legit way to access higher elevations inside the Nether,
it is still risky for players to go through.
I could support this but what I find confusing is nether goes 0-128+ while overworld goes -64 to 128.
Also this makes the nether a separate dimension instead of 'that sandwich between overworld and core'.
Imagine if the nether went below 0 to -64 and it was all just lava-less caves of ancient debris. Now that's a place I could really see wardens making sense in.
I would definitely want that inside of the Nether and have different layers to the Nether as well. Perhaps various layers can have differently colored versions of the Nether-rack, often being yellow or green with unique mobs and materials within them. As the Overworld has Nether portals, perhaps the Nether can have small bits and pieces of the overworld within that the players can colonize and have their own slice of the Overworld within the Nether.
Yes, this would be nice too in line with what I just suggested. Also would be cool to have the overworld 'infect' the nether near nether portal ruins or in random patches.
Also this makes the nether a separate dimension instead of 'that sandwich between overworld and core'.
The nether has never been formally implied or stated to be "below" the overworld. It's just assumed by some that it may be due to its obvious inspirations, but formally, it's just a different dimension entirely.
I could support this but what I find confusing is nether goes 0-128+ while overworld goes -64 to 128.
The height limit was originally 128 (0 to 127) and this simply applied to all dimensions.
At some point, either shortly before or after I started playing (1.2.5 in 2012), the height limit was doubled to 256 (0 to 255) and again this applied to all dimensions I believe. Terrain generation didn't change though. So what that means for the nether is that because it doesn't has a "sky" but rather has a "ceiling", the extra space was (effectively) irrelevant there (at least in survival outside of exploits) as it was above the bedrock layer at the top.
With 1.18, the overworld, and only the overworld this time, had the height limit changed. It was increased by 50%, or the same 128 amount that was added before, for a total of 384. Instead of being 0 to 383, half of that went to underground so the limit is -64 to 319, and the reason for that is so that 1.18+ terrain would "line up" with 1.17 and prior terrain.
The nether has never been formally implied or stated to be "below" the overworld. It's just assumed by some that it may be due to its obvious inspirations, but formally, it's just a different dimension entirely.
The height limit was originally 128 (0 to 127) and this simply applied to all dimensions.
At some point, either shortly before or after I started playing (1.2.5 in 2012), the height limit was doubled to 256 (0 to 255) and again this applied to all dimensions I believe. Terrain generation didn't change though. So what that means for the nether is that because it doesn't has a "sky" but rather has a "ceiling", the extra space was (effectively) irrelevant there (at least in survival outside of exploits) as it was above the bedrock layer at the top.
With 1.18, the overworld, and only the overworld this time, had the height limit changed. It was increased by 50%, or the same 128 amount that was added before, for a total of 384. Instead of being 0 to 383, half of that went to underground so the limit is -64 to 319, and the reason for that is so that 1.18+ terrain would "line up" with 1.17 and prior terrain.
My suggestion is to remove the exploit altogether by simply adding more terrain inside the Nether at higher elevations that has difficult terrain on the topmost layer before you see the sky in the limbo section.
Mojang obviously never intended for players to get above the bedrock layer to use it to cheat and as such non intended and game breaking features should be removed or replaced with something better.
Mojang obviously never intended for players to get above the bedrock layer to use it to cheat and as such non intended and game breaking features should be removed or replaced with something better.
The easiest way to fix this is to treat the space above the Nether ceiling like the void; you take damage and die if you go above it:
// Prevents players from going onto the Nether roof by killing them. y=127 is upper layer of bedrock
if (this.dimension == -1 && this.boundingBox.minY >= 127.0D && !this.capabilities.isCreativeMode)
{
this.attackEntityFrom(DamageSource.topOfNether, 4.0F);
}
Likewise, there is no excuse for bedrock-breaking exploits to still exist; it is easy to simply check if the block being replaced is bedrock and cancel the block replacement action (except for players in Creative mode):
// Bedrock cannot be replaced by any normal means other than players in Creative mode. Always allowed
client-side to avoid needing to patch additional classes and potential issues with multithreaded access of
canRemoveBedrock (only set server-side).
if (oldBlock == BlockStates.bedrock && !this.isRemote && !canRemoveBedrock) return false;
Many of these were also due to simply not checking the block being replaced when e.g. generating tree branches, which should only be able to replace air and leaves (among the bugs I fixed include some trees being able to overwrite blocks like torches and glass, since the code just blindly checked for "transparent" blocks, other parts didn't check at all).
The nether has never been formally implied or stated to be "below" the overworld. It's just assumed by some that it may be due to its obvious inspirations, but formally, it's just a different dimension entirely.
Well the ceiling is why I think so personally - it's out of place otherwise. Also the 8x distance difference is something that fits sphere logic.
The height limit was originally 128 (0 to 127) and this simply applied to all dimensions.
At some point, either shortly before or after I started playing (1.2.5 in 2012), the height limit was doubled to 256 (0 to 255) and again this applied to all dimensions I believe. Terrain generation didn't change though. So what that means for the nether is that because it doesn't has a "sky" but rather has a "ceiling", the extra space was (effectively) irrelevant there (at least in survival outside of exploits) as it was above the bedrock layer at the top.
With 1.18, the overworld, and only the overworld this time, had the height limit changed. It was increased by 50%, or the same 128 amount that was added before, for a total of 384. Instead of being 0 to 383, half of that went to underground so the limit is -64 to 319, and the reason for that is so that 1.18+ terrain would "line up" with 1.17 and prior terrain.
Honestly they could've just done a y-shift of +64 but I think it's the psychogical side of people being used to 64=surface.
My suggestion is to remove the exploit altogether by simply adding more terrain inside the Nether at higher elevations that has difficult terrain on the topmost layer before you see the sky in the limbo section.
Mojang obviously never intended for players to get above the bedrock layer to use it to cheat and as such non intended and game breaking features should be removed or replaced with something better.
I agree with this. I don't like being able to get above the ceiling. It's softlockable.
My suggestion is to remove the exploit altogether by simply adding more terrain inside the Nether at higher elevations that has difficult terrain on the topmost layer before you see the sky in the limbo section.
Mojang obviously never intended for players to get above the bedrock layer to use it to cheat and as such non intended and game breaking features should be removed or replaced with something better.
Yeah, it would have been nice to see 1.16, given it was overhauling the nether, take the opportunity to use the extra height added long before it for terrain generation. I imagine keeping things consistent with prior terrain was a big reason it wasn't done (performance may have been another minor one?), but now that 1.18 added terrain blending, I wonder what possibilities that would open up. I'm not expecting them to revisit nether terrain generation again soon, though.
Well the ceiling is why I think so personally - it's out of place otherwise. Also the 8x distance difference is something that fits sphere logic.
Sure, it fits with that idea. As I said, the inspirations for the nether dimension are rather apparent. I think "older" versions of the game even classify the dimension as "hell" via the F3 screen. And the name "nether" is rather telling, too. Players are free to interpret it as "below" the overworld if they wish as there's nothing to say it might not be that.
But I was saying that canonically/lore-wise/officially or whatever you want to call it, the game currently also doesn't firmly imply it IS below the overworld.
In other words, it's can be up to interpretation, but I believe I recall a statement saying it's not below it, but is rather a different dimension. Maybe I'm wrong on that though.
Either way, it's all a bit moot. The coordinates already didn't line up in a way that implied this arrangement even before the overworld went into negative values. They all just used the same zero up to the height limit before 1.18.
Honestly they could've just done a y-shift of +64 but I think it's the psychogical side of people being used to 64=surface.
Can't speak for that insofar as how easy/possible it is, as I'm not a coder (I want to say it's possible and easy as they are just labels, but again... not a coder). So you're probably right as it was left this way for consistency with old established norms.
Either way, it's equivalent as though the height limit is 384 (0 itself to 383), with a sea level is 128(-ish), with 64(-ish) being the transition from underground to deep underground, and the terrain generation "cap" being around 320(-ish). And I would have preferred those values, yes. Real values are I think one less than what I state (hence the "ish" part) but I'm lazy and more used to the even numbers.
Offset that minus 64 and it's still what things are, just labeled different. Sea level is 64(-ish), underground is -64(-ish) to 64(-ish), and the height limit is up to 320(-ish) with a terrain generator soft cap of around 256(-ish).
Alternatively, and how I'd personally most prefer it, would be to just have 0 the sea level, the underground go to -128, and the height limit go up to +256 (and terrain generator soft cap of up to +192). This isn't a "change" from how it is now to anything but the numerical labels.
Maybe all of this is moot, too. The coordinate and most (all?) of the F3 screen is sort of also an unintended thing for gameplay purposes, and maybe one that should also go away (?).
Can't speak for that insofar as how easy/possible it is, as I'm not a coder (I want to say it's possible and easy as they are just labels, but again... not a coder). So you're probably right as it was left this way for consistency with old established norms.
Well we don't see the game's source code to know how it handles y-coordinates; it might be easy to shift or hard to, depends on if it uses static numbers or has a variable or object attribute for a height offset. Maybe MasterCaver can clarify on that one.
Well we don't see the game's source code to know how it handles y-coordinates; it might be easy to shift or hard to, depends on if it uses static numbers or has a variable or object attribute for a height offset. Maybe MasterCaver can clarify on that one.
For chunk sections it would be as easy as shifting the section's index up by 4 (64 layers at 16 per section), with the y-coordinates of entities shifted up by 64, with the chunk's "data version" used to determine if this is the first time it was loaded in the new update (this tag was added in 1.9 and is used to determine how to process chunks from older versions due to the countless changes to data formats made since then, precisely since the game can determine the exact version of a chunk, with anything before 1.9 being basically the same, aside from numerical item IDs before 1.8, so the lack of it isn't that important, either way, the game would update the tag to the latest version after loading and converting the chunk).
This is also what I'd do if I increased the depth of terrain as it is far easier to keep everything positive than to consider negative coordinates; I never actually tried it for my "double/triple height" terrain mods, which raised sea level by 64 or 128 layers (example of such a world loaded in vanilla, or vice-versa), as I don't consider backwards compatibility with vanilla for modded worlds (plus those mods were made nearly a decade ago, when I had far less knowledge of the game's internals). However, this is an example of the code involved:
// Determines if a chunk needs to be raised (in actuality a centralized "datafixer" would be used to handle any
// conversions, rather than sprinkling them throughout the code)
boolean raiseChunk = par2NBTTagCompound.getInteger("DataVersion") < VERSION_RAISED_HEIGHT;
int[] heightMap = par2NBTTagCompound.getIntArray("HeightMap");
if (raiseChunk)
{
// Raises chunk heightmap by 64
for (int i = 0; i < 256; ++i)
{
chunk.heightMap[i] = heightMap[i] + 64;
}
}
else
{
chunk.heightMap = heightMap;
}
NBTTagCompound var11 = (NBTTagCompound)var6.tagAt(var10);
int y = var11.getByte("Y");
// Old worlds only go up to 15 while new ones go up to 23
if (y >= 0 && y <= (raiseChunk ? 15 : 23))
{
// Shifts all sections up by 4, or 64 layers
int index = (raiseChunk ? y + 4 : y);
var8[index] = new ChunkSection(index << 4, var11, var9);
}
// Add code which handles the space that is now below the raised chunk (replace bedrock with stone, generate terrain for lower 64 layers, or even leave it empty)
// Raises entities by 64 blocks (also applied to tile entities and scheduled block updates)
public void readFromNBT(NBTTagCompound par1NBTTagCompound)
{
double y = ((NBTTagDouble)var2.tagAt(1)).data;
this.prevPosY = this.lastTickPosY = this.posY = (raiseChunk ? y + 64.0D : y);
Another alternative is to make old worlds use a new world type, much as was done in 1.2, which updated older worlds to use a hidden world type named "default_1_1" so they continued generating with the 1.1 world generation (they still got new features like desert temples and horses) unless you manually edited level.dat to change the world type (you can also do the opposite to get 1.1 world generation in versions up to 1.6.4). This is also the solution I used for my "triple height terrain" mod, which uses a new world type for the deeper underground, to avoid corrupting existing vanilla worlds (currently I just block them altogether), and offers an alternative to not updating if you don't like the changes to world generation, while still getting new features that aren't specific to the missing biomes or depth:
However, this only works well for relatively minor changes (all 1.2-1.6 have to do is omit jungles from a list of biomes; for comparison, 1.7 and 1.18 completely changed biome and terrain generation), and Mojang obviously wants you to be able to easily update the same world through multiple versions (you can even update a world from InfDev to the latest version, only limited by the fact that very early versions did not save, or can no longer do so as a non-web-based app, as the game was originally coded as).
For chunk sections it would be as easy as shifting the section's index up by 4 (64 layers at 16 per section), with the y-coordinates of entities shifted up by 64, with the chunk's "data version" used to determine if this is the first time it was loaded in the new update (this tag was added in 1.9 and is used to determine how to process chunks from older versions due to the countless changes to data formats made since then, precisely since the game can determine the exact version of a chunk, with anything before 1.9 being basically the same, aside from numerical item IDs before 1.8, so the lack of it isn't that important, either way, the game would update the tag to the latest version after loading and converting the chunk).
This is also what I'd do if I increased the depth of terrain as it is far easier to keep everything positive than to consider negative coordinates; I never actually tried it for my "double/triple height" terrain mods, which raised sea level by 64 or 128 layers (example of such a world loaded in vanilla, or vice-versa), as I don't consider backwards compatibility with vanilla for modded worlds (plus those mods were made nearly a decade ago, when I had far less knowledge of the game's internals). However, this is an example of the code involved:
// Determines if a chunk needs to be raised (in actuality a centralized "datafixer" would be used to handle any
// conversions, rather than sprinkling them throughout the code)
boolean raiseChunk = par2NBTTagCompound.getInteger("DataVersion") < VERSION_RAISED_HEIGHT;
int[] heightMap = par2NBTTagCompound.getIntArray("HeightMap");
if (raiseChunk)
{
// Raises chunk heightmap by 64
for (int i = 0; i < 256; ++i)
{
chunk.heightMap[i] = heightMap[i] + 64;
}
}
else
{
chunk.heightMap = heightMap;
}
NBTTagCompound var11 = (NBTTagCompound)var6.tagAt(var10);
int y = var11.getByte("Y");
// Old worlds only go up to 15 while new ones go up to 23
if (y >= 0 && y <= (raiseChunk ? 15 : 23))
{
// Shifts all sections up by 4, or 64 layers
int index = (raiseChunk ? y + 4 : y);
var8[index] = new ChunkSection(index << 4, var11, var9);
}
// Add code which handles the space that is now below the raised chunk (replace bedrock with stone, generate terrain for lower 64 layers, or even leave it empty)
// Raises entities by 64 blocks (also applied to tile entities and scheduled block updates)
public void readFromNBT(NBTTagCompound par1NBTTagCompound)
{
double y = ((NBTTagDouble)var2.tagAt(1)).data;
this.prevPosY = this.lastTickPosY = this.posY = (raiseChunk ? y + 64.0D : y);
Another alternative is to make old worlds use a new world type, much as was done in 1.2, which updated older worlds to use a hidden world type named "default_1_1" so they continued generating with the 1.1 world generation (they still got new features like desert temples and horses) unless you manually edited level.dat to change the world type (you can also do the opposite to get 1.1 world generation in versions up to 1.6.4). This is also the solution I used for my "triple height terrain" mod, which uses a new world type for the deeper underground, to avoid corrupting existing vanilla worlds (currently I just block them altogether), and offers an alternative to not updating if you don't like the changes to world generation, while still getting new features that aren't specific to the missing biomes or depth:
However, this only works well for relatively minor changes (all 1.2-1.6 have to do is omit jungles from a list of biomes; for comparison, 1.7 and 1.18 completely changed biome and terrain generation), and Mojang obviously wants you to be able to easily update the same world through multiple versions (you can even update a world from InfDev to the latest version, only limited by the fact that very early versions did not save, or can no longer do so as a non-web-based app, as the game was originally coded as).
The fact you're able to explain it and yet they can't do it says enough - either they don't want to or they're incompetent.
*otherwise tl;dr sorry, a lot of you guys are throwing me essays and im adhd as heck lately*
The easiest way to fix this is to treat the space above the Nether ceiling like the void; you take damage and die if you go above it:
// Prevents players from going onto the Nether roof by killing them. y=127 is upper layer of bedrock
if (this.dimension == -1 && this.boundingBox.minY >= 127.0D && !this.capabilities.isCreativeMode)
{
this.attackEntityFrom(DamageSource.topOfNether, 4.0F);
}
Likewise, there is no excuse for bedrock-breaking exploits to still exist; it is easy to simply check if the block being replaced is bedrock and cancel the block replacement action (except for players in Creative mode):
// Bedrock cannot be replaced by any normal means other than players in Creative mode. Always allowed
client-side to avoid needing to patch additional classes and potential issues with multithreaded access of
canRemoveBedrock (only set server-side).
if (oldBlock == BlockStates.bedrock && !this.isRemote && !canRemoveBedrock) return false;
Many of these were also due to simply not checking the block being replaced when e.g. generating tree branches, which should only be able to replace air and leaves (among the bugs I fixed include some trees being able to overwrite blocks like torches and glass, since the code just blindly checked for "transparent" blocks, other parts didn't check at all).
That wouldn't be very interesting however, the Nether has the 128 Y limitation because it has existed in the game ever since 128 blocks height limit had existed in the other dimensions, now that the height limit has increased since then, it would be better to simply expand the terrain generation in the Nether which would also give Mojang more available room to generate newer biomes, structures and ores should they add more on top of what they already did in 1.16.
Interestingly, the Nether is exactly the same size as the Overworld even though there is a 1 to 8 block ratio when the dimensions are compared by travel distance, making it possible to use Nether as shortcuts through the Overworld. But even then, the Nether can be improved with this, what about newer variants of the Nether fortress on the upper sections? these ones can be different and not spawn blazes, but other hostile mobs instead.
More terrain and an uneven surface at the topmost layer would prevent said exploits from being abuseable and in this case there is no need for bedrock layer to exist at the top, nor is any void damage at the top necessary to balance the game, because there would be hazards everywhere even at this region which can be anything from hostile and neutral mobs, to hazards like fire, lava and pitfalls or cliffs.
The End is basically that?
Not really, and I would agree with being able to access the moon, while not technically counted as another dimension, it could be treated as one by game design for the purposes of simplicity.
It has been done in the Galacticraft mod, why shouldn't it be done as a legitimate feature? there are other options to add in dimensions but personally I consider the idea of allowing players to reach the moon just by climbing blocks a horrible idea, as it would only be accessible at night time and it would likely mean adding in a build height of several hundreds of thousands of blocks, making the whole process tedious.
It would be better to allow the moon to be accessed via some portal,
but then we are going to need some new enchantments to be added to make at least a little bit of sense out of
how players are able to survive in such a hostile environment.
Anti Radical could be added as a new enchantment to protect against radiation,
And adding another enchantment called Moon Walker could grant immunity to the vacuum of space and thus suffocation,
but be made incompatible with Respiration enchantments. Anti Radical could be obtained from Villager Trades or dungeons in Overworld of course, while the Moon Walker enchantment could be exclusive to UFO crash sites on the moon.
should there be hostile mobs on the moon? perhaps,
but first we need to make the environment liveable before considering this.
The End isn't really the Moon. I think the End needs some major development, the End doesn't strike me as interesting as it could be.
The Galacticraft Mod as far as I know seems to be no longer updated? I feel like Minecraft should incorporate something like it into the actual game itself. Perhaps with it's own planets and Moons. I would suggest for the Moon in Minecraft to have multiple biomes and to actually be habitable in certain areas. The Moon should have an atmosphere, I think that would be interesting.
Space exploration wouldn't be out of place in a game like this but each of the individual planets or moons that could be visited would need something interesting to encourage people to visit them.
We don't even need spacecrafts to be added to the game to make this practical, just add portals and players could build stargates to each individual planet or moon worth visiting.
Imagine if the moon Europa and the planet Jupiter got added to the game, while Jupiter shouldn't be habitable in the game, and nor should Europa without any gear that protected players from the conditions there, Europa could have an interesting landscape on it, having the distant stars still be visible even during the day time in the sky, and the majority of the surface being covered with ice with liquid water underneath.
Mars could be made already terraformed, giving it Earth-like features and biomes, and likewise it could have the same hostile mobs spawning there as on Earth, but it could also have abandoned Martian buildings, only some containing villagers, adding a bit of mystery to it, implying that alien technology had already terraformed the planet long before the time period players were there.
Europa would be interesting. I much prefer portals and stargates to spaceships. Europa could be covered by a vast frozen ocean with unique ice-based biomes. Ice aliens and ice based mobs. Jupiter covering half of the sky, and of course it would be tidally locked so day-night cycles last a lot longer.
Mars would be interesting as Terraformed, I imagine it would have vast areas similar to the Mesa Biome, but more liveable. Abandoned Martian buildings and portals leading to other planets and moons. I would suggest that Phobos and Deimos be able to be visited as well, although the world can physically be smaller since those moons are so tiny.
And Europa could be used as an ice mine dig site, of course players could seek out an Ice biome in the Overworld/Earth, but depending on how RNG plays out and what world seed they're on this may take them too long.
There are many reasons why someone may want to have an ice mine in the game, making a basalt generator is a small percentage of the reasons.
They may want to use it for high speed transportation, or building igloos with packed ice.
Having life underneath the Europa surface as well as underwater magma pits although hazardous, would make Europa a more interesting moon than just being a lifeless ice ball in orbit around Jupiter.
But because there is very little light there, the underwater section in the mantle of Europa 128 blocks below the surface could be made extremely dark, necessitating the use of potions of night vision to swim through safely, and the player would need to be careful not to go over sections where magma pits were present or they would be sucked down and therefore they would risk either drowning or death by being damaged on the magma block itself.
But having a gigantic and ocean underneath with fish even, would create interesting opportunities for players to build under water cities,
and these oceans could be made much deeper than any ocean on Earth/Overworld, extending to a maximum depth of -192 from 63.
How would any player survive at these depths? they have options like water breathing potions, building conduits, a respiration 4 enchantment found in books located at abandoned observatories on Europa itself, doubling the amount of time a player can remain submerged without drowning, bringing soul sand or magma blocks for making bubble columns to breath with etc.
However, Minecraft has been one of the most popular video games for over a decade, and it continues to have a large player base and community. The game has evolved over the years with new updates, features, and additions, and while some players may prefer the earlier versions of the game, many others continue to enjoy playing it. It is also worth noting that opinions about video games can be subjective, and what one person may perceive as "losing its touch," may not be the same for others. But in my case yes, it's!
I could support this but what I find confusing is nether goes 0-128+ while overworld goes -64 to 128.
Also this makes the nether a separate dimension instead of 'that sandwich between overworld and core'.
Imagine if the nether went below 0 to -64 and it was all just lava-less caves of ancient debris. Now that's a place I could really see wardens making sense in.
Yes, this would be nice too in line with what I just suggested. Also would be cool to have the overworld 'infect' the nether near nether portal ruins or in random patches.
The nether has never been formally implied or stated to be "below" the overworld. It's just assumed by some that it may be due to its obvious inspirations, but formally, it's just a different dimension entirely.
The height limit was originally 128 (0 to 127) and this simply applied to all dimensions.
At some point, either shortly before or after I started playing (1.2.5 in 2012), the height limit was doubled to 256 (0 to 255) and again this applied to all dimensions I believe. Terrain generation didn't change though. So what that means for the nether is that because it doesn't has a "sky" but rather has a "ceiling", the extra space was (effectively) irrelevant there (at least in survival outside of exploits) as it was above the bedrock layer at the top.
With 1.18, the overworld, and only the overworld this time, had the height limit changed. It was increased by 50%, or the same 128 amount that was added before, for a total of 384. Instead of being 0 to 383, half of that went to underground so the limit is -64 to 319, and the reason for that is so that 1.18+ terrain would "line up" with 1.17 and prior terrain.
My suggestion is to remove the exploit altogether by simply adding more terrain inside the Nether at higher elevations that has difficult terrain on the topmost layer before you see the sky in the limbo section.
Mojang obviously never intended for players to get above the bedrock layer to use it to cheat and as such non intended and game breaking features should be removed or replaced with something better.
The easiest way to fix this is to treat the space above the Nether ceiling like the void; you take damage and die if you go above it:
Likewise, there is no excuse for bedrock-breaking exploits to still exist; it is easy to simply check if the block being replaced is bedrock and cancel the block replacement action (except for players in Creative mode):
Many of these were also due to simply not checking the block being replaced when e.g. generating tree branches, which should only be able to replace air and leaves (among the bugs I fixed include some trees being able to overwrite blocks like torches and glass, since the code just blindly checked for "transparent" blocks, other parts didn't check at all).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Well the ceiling is why I think so personally - it's out of place otherwise. Also the 8x distance difference is something that fits sphere logic.
Honestly they could've just done a y-shift of +64 but I think it's the psychogical side of people being used to 64=surface.
I agree with this. I don't like being able to get above the ceiling. It's softlockable.
Yeah, it would have been nice to see 1.16, given it was overhauling the nether, take the opportunity to use the extra height added long before it for terrain generation. I imagine keeping things consistent with prior terrain was a big reason it wasn't done (performance may have been another minor one?), but now that 1.18 added terrain blending, I wonder what possibilities that would open up. I'm not expecting them to revisit nether terrain generation again soon, though.
Sure, it fits with that idea. As I said, the inspirations for the nether dimension are rather apparent. I think "older" versions of the game even classify the dimension as "hell" via the F3 screen. And the name "nether" is rather telling, too. Players are free to interpret it as "below" the overworld if they wish as there's nothing to say it might not be that.
But I was saying that canonically/lore-wise/officially or whatever you want to call it, the game currently also doesn't firmly imply it IS below the overworld.
In other words, it's can be up to interpretation, but I believe I recall a statement saying it's not below it, but is rather a different dimension. Maybe I'm wrong on that though.
Either way, it's all a bit moot. The coordinates already didn't line up in a way that implied this arrangement even before the overworld went into negative values. They all just used the same zero up to the height limit before 1.18.
Can't speak for that insofar as how easy/possible it is, as I'm not a coder (I want to say it's possible and easy as they are just labels, but again... not a coder). So you're probably right as it was left this way for consistency with old established norms.
Either way, it's equivalent as though the height limit is 384 (0 itself to 383), with a sea level is 128(-ish), with 64(-ish) being the transition from underground to deep underground, and the terrain generation "cap" being around 320(-ish). And I would have preferred those values, yes. Real values are I think one less than what I state (hence the "ish" part) but I'm lazy and more used to the even numbers.
Offset that minus 64 and it's still what things are, just labeled different. Sea level is 64(-ish), underground is -64(-ish) to 64(-ish), and the height limit is up to 320(-ish) with a terrain generator soft cap of around 256(-ish).
Alternatively, and how I'd personally most prefer it, would be to just have 0 the sea level, the underground go to -128, and the height limit go up to +256 (and terrain generator soft cap of up to +192). This isn't a "change" from how it is now to anything but the numerical labels.
Maybe all of this is moot, too. The coordinate and most (all?) of the F3 screen is sort of also an unintended thing for gameplay purposes, and maybe one that should also go away (?).
Well we don't see the game's source code to know how it handles y-coordinates; it might be easy to shift or hard to, depends on if it uses static numbers or has a variable or object attribute for a height offset. Maybe MasterCaver can clarify on that one.
For chunk sections it would be as easy as shifting the section's index up by 4 (64 layers at 16 per section), with the y-coordinates of entities shifted up by 64, with the chunk's "data version" used to determine if this is the first time it was loaded in the new update (this tag was added in 1.9 and is used to determine how to process chunks from older versions due to the countless changes to data formats made since then, precisely since the game can determine the exact version of a chunk, with anything before 1.9 being basically the same, aside from numerical item IDs before 1.8, so the lack of it isn't that important, either way, the game would update the tag to the latest version after loading and converting the chunk).
This is also what I'd do if I increased the depth of terrain as it is far easier to keep everything positive than to consider negative coordinates; I never actually tried it for my "double/triple height" terrain mods, which raised sea level by 64 or 128 layers (example of such a world loaded in vanilla, or vice-versa), as I don't consider backwards compatibility with vanilla for modded worlds (plus those mods were made nearly a decade ago, when I had far less knowledge of the game's internals). However, this is an example of the code involved:
Another alternative is to make old worlds use a new world type, much as was done in 1.2, which updated older worlds to use a hidden world type named "default_1_1" so they continued generating with the 1.1 world generation (they still got new features like desert temples and horses) unless you manually edited level.dat to change the world type (you can also do the opposite to get 1.1 world generation in versions up to 1.6.4). This is also the solution I used for my "triple height terrain" mod, which uses a new world type for the deeper underground, to avoid corrupting existing vanilla worlds (currently I just block them altogether), and offers an alternative to not updating if you don't like the changes to world generation, while still getting new features that aren't specific to the missing biomes or depth:
However, this only works well for relatively minor changes (all 1.2-1.6 have to do is omit jungles from a list of biomes; for comparison, 1.7 and 1.18 completely changed biome and terrain generation), and Mojang obviously wants you to be able to easily update the same world through multiple versions (you can even update a world from InfDev to the latest version, only limited by the fact that very early versions did not save, or can no longer do so as a non-web-based app, as the game was originally coded as).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
The fact you're able to explain it and yet they can't do it says enough - either they don't want to or they're incompetent.
*otherwise tl;dr sorry, a lot of you guys are throwing me essays and im adhd as heck lately*
That wouldn't be very interesting however, the Nether has the 128 Y limitation because it has existed in the game ever since 128 blocks height limit had existed in the other dimensions, now that the height limit has increased since then, it would be better to simply expand the terrain generation in the Nether which would also give Mojang more available room to generate newer biomes, structures and ores should they add more on top of what they already did in 1.16.
Interestingly, the Nether is exactly the same size as the Overworld even though there is a 1 to 8 block ratio when the dimensions are compared by travel distance, making it possible to use Nether as shortcuts through the Overworld. But even then, the Nether can be improved with this, what about newer variants of the Nether fortress on the upper sections? these ones can be different and not spawn blazes, but other hostile mobs instead.
More terrain and an uneven surface at the topmost layer would prevent said exploits from being abuseable and in this case there is no need for bedrock layer to exist at the top, nor is any void damage at the top necessary to balance the game, because there would be hazards everywhere even at this region which can be anything from hostile and neutral mobs, to hazards like fire, lava and pitfalls or cliffs.
as long as microsoft bought it, there's no worries