The reduced air exposure for diamond ore generating is a baffling change in caves and cliffs part 2. Caves are better than they've ever been, and yet the best way to get diamonds is to tediously strip mine at the lowest level possible. They've even made that worse now with the increased time to mine deepslate than stone. Why can't we get diamonds from exploring caves? what creative decision made this be the case? I want to explore the new caves, but it's just not worth it!
100% agreement.
Basically, there should be 2 ways to mine:
Spelunking:
- More exposed ground, especially in the wider caves, so... much more dangerous.
- Typically requires a lot more torches to light the caves up,
- Requires player to be quite attentive to what he is doing, and often make decisions.
- Lots of different danger types.
- Maze like tunnels require player to use his brain to remember thepaqth or use a mapping trick, or just dig an exit when done.
Basically, this is mining THE HARD WAY.
Branch Mining:
- The only exposed ground is typically either thel it tunnels player is digging, or lava lakes, thus also lit up. Ergo, almost NO MOBS.
- Very economical on torches needed.
- Player can almost completely fall into "robot mode", Just dig straight, no turns needed, just hold the mouse!
- Only one danger: OCASIONNALLY you dig to an open lava cave, and have to stop short of falling into lava. This is quite easy to avoid.
- Brain-dead straight tunnels in a simple organized pattern of player choice.
Basically, this is mining THE SAFE WAY.
Now, whether you use "reduced air exposure" or not, what REALLY counts is only one single thing: amount of diamonds per hour of "work" of the mining.
No more, no less.
Unless one is a complete moron, simple and proper game design should make it so the MORE rewarding (i.e. diamonds per hour) mining method is THE HARD WAY, and the LESS efficient mining method is THE SAFE WAY.
But apparently Mojang prefers the opposite.
Go figure!
There is one caveat exception to this rule:
On multiplayer servers, if branch mining was quite less efficient than spelunking, there would be the risk of ore depletion in some areas, and the "boring branch mining grind" wouldd just be replaced with "boring epxloration grind to find more and new caves". But that phylosophy is erroneous because that exploration is NOT BORING GRIND. You see constat variety, you face constant sets of different challenges. that ain't GRIND that is just INTERESTING GAMEPLAY amd what rerally counts is ther number of diamonds per hour of "playing to try to get diamonds". Pillaring up 256 blocks then shoveling it back down to get Flint, that is GRIND, while shoveling gravel vein by vvein in caves is definitely not gtrind, despite it taking much longer to get thhe same amount of flint drops! GRIND by definition is *only* when the player does the same boring, repetitive, stupidly simple mind-numbding task over and over and over, with next to no other events or player decisions occuring at all. So all those other posters that talk about "it woukd just be exploration grind" are quite crazy lol.
Now, however, the 1st part of the caveat, though: "there would be the risk of ore depletion in some areas" hoewever that part remainws 100% true.
Instead of use branch mining as a crutch, the solution of course is to adress the problem directly from a multiplayer perspective.
- A server's world size might be quite limited. Say, only a couple thousand blocks wide.
- But the need to have lots of ores, enough for all players, is there.
Mojang solution: Branch mining! (the crappy solution)
Better solution: Would be "two pronged":
- For Large server worlds: Ways to quickly travel to very far places, so a special "rune portal" that sends player to a far spot (not perfectly controllable at all). Each player's destination is different, but there is a simple in-game way to "invite" specific other players to "your" destination spot. not a command but a special "key" item that works only for that player.
- For small server world: "Instances"!
Kind of like the Nether, a way to add "pocket dimensions". Each player can have only one, they are of limited size and wraparound on themselves along both X and Z, and each player can make and own only one at a time. A minimum number (and a big one) of harvested ores in that dimension is needed to be allowed to delete the one you have in order to start a new one. Or maybe just fill up a full item map of it. No seeds decided by player, the game decides the seed at random each time. Again, keys to invite others. They'd be like a large mostly low-interesting barren land, over normal mazes of tunnels and caves. Slightly less "ore rich" than the true Overworld, but only slightly so. Basically, they become more interesting once the overworld would starts to show signs or ore depletion.
And those are just two ideas off the top of my head in less than 10 minutes.
Mojang sseems to think the solution to avoid ore depletion
On multiplayer worlds, the easy answer is farms. Wither skeleton for coal, pigman for gold, iron golem for iron, drowned for copper. In villages, multiple clerics to buy lapis and redstone. Unlimited diamond armor/tools from villagers. A few diamonds needed for echant tables/jukeboxes can be found by caving.
On multiplayer worlds, the easy answer is farms. Wither skeleton for coal, pigman for gold, iron golem for iron, drowned for copper. In villages, multiple clerics to buy lapis and redstone. Unlimited diamond armor/tools from villagers. A few diamonds needed for echant tables/jukeboxes can be found by caving.
Farms shouldn't be a crutch for bad game design, though. If the ore distribution is that messed up that people are having to rely on grinders and even AFK farms more often, then Mojang should be taking notes instead of leaving their game a mess for everyone else to clean up.
Caving in new mega caves can yield a lot of resources for single player. Other day, I dug up 5+ stacks of iron in less than an hour from one cave section, and a full stack of redstone blocks, among other things. But for multiplayer environment, things might get scarce.
Farms have been very much a thing long long long before 1.18.
On multiplayer worlds, the easy answer is farms. Wither skeleton for coal, pigman for gold, iron golem for iron, drowned for copper. In villages, multiple clerics to buy lapis and redstone. Unlimited diamond armor/tools from villagers. A few diamonds needed for echant tables/jukeboxes can be found by caving.
I wouldn't limit this to SMP; so far as I'm concerned farming(includes trade/barter) is superior to caving/mining… unless, of course, one likes caving/monster hunting/mining.
With the 'new' [1.14] villager trading, the only things one needs diamonds for are enchanting tables, jukeboxes, and firework stars. [Since I tend to run maybe 1 jukebox per world and rarely to never use firework stars, thus the only serious drain is enchanting tables – rarely used for enchanting.]
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
On multiplayer worlds, the easy answer is farms. Wither skeleton for coal, pigman for gold, iron golem for iron, drowned for copper. In villages, multiple clerics to buy lapis and redstone. Unlimited diamond armor/tools from villagers. A few diamonds needed for echant tables/jukeboxes can be found by caving.
I have always relied on this in order to save ores for fortune, but with iron and gold now having it, this is untenable and I need to mine some ores early on just to get progression.
I wouldn't limit this to SMP; so far as I'm concerned farming(includes trade/barter) is superior to caving/mining… unless, of course, one likes caving/monster hunting/mining.
With the 'new' [1.14] villager trading, the only things one needs diamonds for are enchanting tables, jukeboxes, and firework stars. [Since I tend to run maybe 1 jukebox per world and rarely to never use firework stars, thus the only serious drain is enchanting tables – rarely used for enchanting.]
This, you can just farm and totally avoid mining, although mining is uber exciting in 1.18. Big boi caves no scare me no more pwease
Seriously, diamonds are completely unnecessary in their raw form. You can enchant via books and anvils. Jukeboxes spawn naturally in some structure I believe. There are cheaper firework stars.
That said, farming iron is a bit annoying at first until you get good at it, and farming coal from wither skeletons is always a chore for the amounts you need it in...best stick to wood charcoal and stone early on. I might actually go play a 1.18 game right now to celebrate having a new computer.
This, you can just farm and totally avoid mining, although mining is uber exciting in 1.18. Big boi caves no scare me no more pwease
Seriously, diamonds are completely unnecessary in their raw form. You can enchant via books and anvils. Jukeboxes spawn naturally in some structure I believe. There are cheaper firework stars.
That said, farming iron is a bit annoying at first until you get good at it, and farming coal from wither skeletons is always a chore for the amounts you need it in...best stick to wood charcoal and stone early on. I might actually go play a 1.18 game right now to celebrate having a new computer.
Farming resource isn't hard, it's just boring and monotonous, which is why a lot of people go mine for their resources instead of relying on iron and gold farms, as of 1.18 gold farms in the Nether are still possible via Piglin spawning systems, and since Piglin commonly spawn in Crimson forests, this is exploitable.
Mining used to be fun, but with the ores being more scarce than they used to be, it's not very rewarding to go looking for them in these fancy looking new caves.
Enchantments do somewhat mitigate the problem, but how long is this going to last? given Mojang's obsession with nerfing stuff, it's only a matter of time before mending is next on the chopping block. Then how are we supposed to maintain our diamond and netherite gear after that happens? I don't like the direction the game is headed but there's nowt any of us can do to stop it, seeing as it isn't our intellectual property, we are not within legal right to stop them anyhow.
1.19 isn't going to be a nightmarish update at least, it will be adding good stuff like fireflies and frogs, and mangrove trees, more wildlife which is what we've wanted in the game for a long time, any negative? Warden? the Warden will be avoidable so it's not going to matter, we just need to know the specifics of what a deep dark biome would look like by that time, as well as what Y coordinates they can spawn in.
I guess this is a way to expand gameplay time fakely, by adding unnecessary monotony and repetition.
Better ways to extend gameplay have been proposed, such as introducing more structures and hostile mobs to battle.
Bastions can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing with them
if we had increased ground depth in the Nether more biomes AND structures could be put in, and hostile mobs, such as the Greek goblin kallikantzaros.
This is better than messing with the existing stats of the game, and causing people to be upset at Mojang even more.
Games aren't supposed to be like this, games are supposed to be a hobby you enjoy doing.
I think there are nerfs that do make sense to the game, another person brought up the issue with potion status effects stacking, causing the same problem as the enchanted golden apple, where you get a near god mode if you have regeneration and fire resistance stacked.
And in my opinion, with the introduction of steel ingots increasing Iron tool durability using the Smithing table, making iron more useful late game, mending could safely be nerfed to the point where indefinite repairs could only be done on the anvil.
But what Mojang did with 1.18 with ore generation was complete nonsense, why should people have to go find mountain biomes just so they can have a suitable supply of iron? the iron ore generation was fine the way it was before 1.17/1.18.
And what they've done to ore generation didn't discourage me from relying on iron golems, in fact it made me rely on them even more,
and no doubt it has done the same for other people, which is stupid. We shouldn't have to rely on controversial game mechanics just to use a material which isn't even the second best tool and armour material any longer.
While it is true I and many others use diamond tools when we can get them, as I already have now on my current world,
I still use iron for things like Iron doors, trapdoors and iron bars for builds, they have a certain decorative aesthetic that me and other players like.
If you put your mind to it you can use them for a lot of things.
Catwalks in factories, to safely scoop lava with buckets out of vats, trapdoors and iron bars are used for this on my builds late game.
Lamp posts, iron bars are great for that.
You can use them for beacons, although emerald blocks are now preferable no thanks to what 1.18 has done.
Cheap rail systems, which you can use to move villagers about or other mobs conveniently and safely.
You can use iron bars, carpets and banners for making umbrellas, which go great with park benches,
You can use iron trapdoors for making sewer drains, or access points to the sewer tunnel which could be an access point to your mine.
Iron bars are also great for fireplaces as you can imagine,
likewise, iron bars can be used for making prisons or dungeons underneath castles.
You can use Librarians for getting lanterns, no point wasting your own iron on these imo.
if we had increased ground depth in the Nether more biomes AND structures could be put in, and hostile mobs, such as the Greek goblin kallikantzaros.
I find it funny that people still think this is necessary - TMCW has FAR more underground content than 1.18 despite being no deeper than vanilla (unless you count cave lava level being 7 layers deeper, giving 13% more space for caves below sea level); for example, these are all the various types of caves that can be found, and even "normal" caves have a lot more variation than vanilla with variation on a regional scale independent on biomes, as do mineshafts and dungeons (I'm assuming they are still more or less the same as back in 1.6.4 but with a few tweaks to how mineshafts generate in open caves and surface mineshafts in mesas):
A 6144x6144 map of the seed with the largest cave shown above (otherwise more or less typical), with a total air volume of more than 233 million blocks (10.5% of blocks between layers 4-62), compared to about 103 million blocks (5.27% between layers 11-62) in vanilla 1.6.4:
This only shows "special" cave variants, as shown on the chart above, which still take up over 146 million blocks:
A list of the giant cave regions and 10 largest caves and ravines:
Entire biomes replace stone/dirt/gravel/andesite/etc with biome-specific blocks all the way down to bedrock:
Deserts:
Iceland (a biome unique to TMCW):
Badlands:
There is even a new wood type, "stick", whose planks are crafted from sticks, and is one biome-specific variant that mineshafts may be made out of (generally corresponding to the type of trees found, defaulting to oak, while some treeless biomes use other wood types):
Mesa (distinct from badlands):
Volcanic Wasteland (anotehr one of my own biomes); note that stone is replaced with andesite, while there are veins of stone instead of andesite, which is also found in several other biomes:
Quartz desert (desert with quartz sand instead of yellow sand):
Ice Plains Spikes:
Ice Hills (another biome unique to TMCW):
Jungle (Tropical Swamp also has "cave grass" but not vines):
Mushroom Island:
This is a rendering of what I explored in the first 15 days of caving in my current world; the area in the bottom-center is within a quartz desert, hence the light-colored caves, some screenshots of which are shown below:
There are also many more mobs that you can regularly encounter; cave spiders, silverfish, and endermites all naturally spawn anywhere below sea level (not just from spawners/infested blocks/thrown ender pearls; endermen also spawn endermites when they teleport from a player, a feature which was removed almost as soon as it was added, as were naturally spawning killer rabbits and even giant zombies, all of which naturally spawn in TMCW, instead of just adding useless bloat to the game), as do husks and strays in their respective biomes, which are overall much more common, with many biome-specific variants (yellow husks yellow sand deserts, white husks in quartz desert, red husks in badlands and mesa (not to be confused with Mojang's renaming of mesa to badlands, these are distinct biomes, each with their own unique underground blocks).
Of course, ore generation is basically the same as vanilla, though I still wouldn't say that caving was a good source of rarer ores given that I've still only found about 4.4 diamond ore per hour despite adding extra ores which only generate if exposed in caves to spite Mojang (albeit I did average less rarer ores in TMCWv4 due to differences in cave distribution so this was mainly to bring the ratios closer to vanilla, but this assumes you explore everything underground, not just the deeper layers, so you will find more if you only explore those layers), but you sure can't beat the amount of iron that I've found in just 15 days - more than 10,000, enough to meet anybody's lifetime needs (well, unless you want to build a mansion with them, as some actually try to do in survival, but IMO there is a point where you need to lower your expectations - just because iron blocks exist doesn't necessarily mean they were meant for building, at least on a large scale in Survival mode):
For comparison, this is what I found over a 4 month period in a (mostly) vanilla world - it is interesting that I averaged nearly the exact same amount of ores per play session and when including dungeon/mineshaft blocks I collected more resources overall (mineshafts are less common in TMCW, especially when factoring in an increased volume of caves); Mojang's reasoning for "reduced air exposure" is that more/bigger caves would make ores much easier to find - not so in my experience. Actually, given that I spent a couple days building a new base and railway in October the averages would be higher if those days are excluded (e.g. see November):
I find it funny that people still think this is necessary - TMCW has FAR more underground content than 1.18 despite being no deeper than vanilla (unless you count cave lava level being 7 layers deeper, giving 13% more space for caves below sea level); for example, these are all the various types of caves that can be found, and even "normal" caves have a lot more variation than vanilla with variation on a regional scale independent on biomes, as do mineshafts and dungeons (I'm assuming they are still more or less the same as back in 1.6.4 but with a few tweaks to how mineshafts generate in open caves and surface mineshafts in mesas):
A 6144x6144 map of the seed with the largest cave shown above (otherwise more or less typical), with a total air volume of more than 233 million blocks (10.5% of blocks between layers 4-62), compared to about 103 million blocks (5.27% between layers 11-62) in vanilla 1.6.4:
This only shows "special" cave variants, as shown on the chart above, which still take up over 146 million blocks:
A list of the giant cave regions and 10 largest caves and ravines:
Entire biomes replace stone/dirt/gravel/andesite/etc with biome-specific blocks all the way down to bedrock:
Deserts:
Iceland (a biome unique to TMCW):
Badlands:
There is even a new wood type, "stick", whose planks are crafted from sticks, and is one biome-specific variant that mineshafts may be made out of (generally corresponding to the type of trees found, defaulting to oak, while some treeless biomes use other wood types):
Mesa (distinct from badlands):
Volcanic Wasteland (anotehr one of my own biomes); note that stone is replaced with andesite, while there are veins of stone instead of andesite, which is also found in several other biomes:
Quartz desert (desert with quartz sand instead of yellow sand):
Ice Plains Spikes:
Ice Hills (another biome unique to TMCW):
Jungle (Tropical Swamp also has "cave grass" but not vines):
Mushroom Island:
This is a rendering of what I explored in the first 15 days of caving in my current world; the area in the bottom-center is within a quartz desert, hence the light-colored caves, some screenshots of which are shown below:
There are also many more mobs that you can regularly encounter; cave spiders, silverfish, and endermites all naturally spawn anywhere below sea level (not just from spawners/infested blocks/thrown ender pearls; endermen also spawn endermites when they teleport from a player, a feature which was removed almost as soon as it was added, as were naturally spawning killer rabbits and even giant zombies, all of which naturally spawn in TMCW, instead of just adding useless bloat to the game), as do husks and strays in their respective biomes, which are overall much more common, with many biome-specific variants (yellow husks yellow sand deserts, white husks in quartz desert, red husks in badlands and mesa (not to be confused with Mojang's renaming of mesa to badlands, these are distinct biomes, each with their own unique underground blocks).
Of course, ore generation is basically the same as vanilla, though I still wouldn't say that caving was a good source of rarer ores given that I've still only found about 4.4 diamond ore per hour despite adding extra ores which only generate if exposed in caves to spite Mojang (albeit I did average less rarer ores in TMCWv4 due to differences in cave distribution so this was mainly to bring the ratios closer to vanilla, but this assumes you explore everything underground, not just the deeper layers, so you will find more if you only explore those layers), but you sure can't beat the amount of iron that I've found in just 15 days - more than 10,000, enough to meet anybody's lifetime needs (well, unless you want to build a mansion with them, as some actually try to do in survival, but IMO there is a point where you need to lower your expectations - just because iron blocks exist doesn't necessarily mean they were meant for building, at least on a large scale in Survival mode):
For comparison, this is what I found over a 4 month period in a (mostly) vanilla world - it is interesting that I averaged nearly the exact same amount of ores per play session and when including dungeon/mineshaft blocks I collected more resources overall (mineshafts are less common in TMCW, especially when factoring in an increased volume of caves); Mojang's reasoning for "reduced air exposure" is that more/bigger caves would make ores much easier to find - not so in my experience. Actually, given that I spent a couple days building a new base and railway in October the averages would be higher if those days are excluded (e.g. see November):
I don't try to build mansions with iron blocks, however I do use iron for catwalks in factories as well as lamp posts so it is a considerable resource drain in survival. It's bad enough that each anvil cost 31 ingots each and that they don't last forever, which is almost half a stack, close to the number 32.
Also iron bars can be used as fireguards for fireplaces to prevent fire from spreading, so iron on builds is used for more than just aesthetics, see link below, given that the alternative fence posts are flammable unless you use crimson or warped forest type of wood which weren't added until 1.16, I think it speaks for itself that there are more uses for iron than just providing players with weaponry and armoury.
Minecraft is a sandbox game, part of the reason people came to the game in the first place was to build what they want so I think it's reasonable to expect survival mode to have some leniency in what resources you can collect.
I'm not expecting to build a mansion or castle out of less common resources like diamond or iron blocks, who does this? that's the type of thing you'd expect someone in creative mode to do, but I don't see why I should have to adjust my play style out of what Mojang imposes on people when we've gotten so used to how things were with the game. Eventually when you're constantly being told to adapt to change because of daft opinions a developer may have, it does become annoying, it's a video game and a causal one at that, not real life.
The nerf to ore generation via reduced air exposure is something that should've been reserved for a higher difficulty, or something along those lines,
but instead no compromises had been made here, we're forced to put up with it regardless of our play style. Progress gets slowed down which means more wasted time, time that could've been spent on things we liked doing.
100% agreement.
Basically, there should be 2 ways to mine:
Spelunking:
- More exposed ground, especially in the wider caves, so... much more dangerous.
- Typically requires a lot more torches to light the caves up,
- Requires player to be quite attentive to what he is doing, and often make decisions.
- Lots of different danger types.
- Maze like tunnels require player to use his brain to remember thepaqth or use a mapping trick, or just dig an exit when done.
Basically, this is mining THE HARD WAY.
Branch Mining:
- The only exposed ground is typically either thel it tunnels player is digging, or lava lakes, thus also lit up. Ergo, almost NO MOBS.
- Very economical on torches needed.
- Player can almost completely fall into "robot mode", Just dig straight, no turns needed, just hold the mouse!
- Only one danger: OCASIONNALLY you dig to an open lava cave, and have to stop short of falling into lava. This is quite easy to avoid.
- Brain-dead straight tunnels in a simple organized pattern of player choice.
Basically, this is mining THE SAFE WAY.
Now, whether you use "reduced air exposure" or not, what REALLY counts is only one single thing: amount of diamonds per hour of "work" of the mining.
No more, no less.
Unless one is a complete moron, simple and proper game design should make it so the MORE rewarding (i.e. diamonds per hour) mining method is THE HARD WAY, and the LESS efficient mining method is THE SAFE WAY.
But apparently Mojang prefers the opposite.
Go figure!
There is one caveat exception to this rule:
On multiplayer servers, if branch mining was quite less efficient than spelunking, there would be the risk of ore depletion in some areas, and the "boring branch mining grind" wouldd just be replaced with "boring epxloration grind to find more and new caves". But that phylosophy is erroneous because that exploration is NOT BORING GRIND. You see constat variety, you face constant sets of different challenges. that ain't GRIND that is just INTERESTING GAMEPLAY amd what rerally counts is ther number of diamonds per hour of "playing to try to get diamonds". Pillaring up 256 blocks then shoveling it back down to get Flint, that is GRIND, while shoveling gravel vein by vvein in caves is definitely not gtrind, despite it taking much longer to get thhe same amount of flint drops! GRIND by definition is *only* when the player does the same boring, repetitive, stupidly simple mind-numbding task over and over and over, with next to no other events or player decisions occuring at all. So all those other posters that talk about "it woukd just be exploration grind" are quite crazy lol.
Now, however, the 1st part of the caveat, though: "there would be the risk of ore depletion in some areas" hoewever that part remainws 100% true.
Instead of use branch mining as a crutch, the solution of course is to adress the problem directly from a multiplayer perspective.
- A server's world size might be quite limited. Say, only a couple thousand blocks wide.
- But the need to have lots of ores, enough for all players, is there.
Mojang solution: Branch mining! (the crappy solution)
Better solution: Would be "two pronged":
- For Large server worlds: Ways to quickly travel to very far places, so a special "rune portal" that sends player to a far spot (not perfectly controllable at all). Each player's destination is different, but there is a simple in-game way to "invite" specific other players to "your" destination spot. not a command but a special "key" item that works only for that player.
- For small server world: "Instances"!
Kind of like the Nether, a way to add "pocket dimensions". Each player can have only one, they are of limited size and wraparound on themselves along both X and Z, and each player can make and own only one at a time. A minimum number (and a big one) of harvested ores in that dimension is needed to be allowed to delete the one you have in order to start a new one. Or maybe just fill up a full item map of it. No seeds decided by player, the game decides the seed at random each time. Again, keys to invite others. They'd be like a large mostly low-interesting barren land, over normal mazes of tunnels and caves. Slightly less "ore rich" than the true Overworld, but only slightly so. Basically, they become more interesting once the overworld would starts to show signs or ore depletion.
And those are just two ideas off the top of my head in less than 10 minutes.
Mojang sseems to think the solution to avoid ore depletion
On multiplayer worlds, the easy answer is farms. Wither skeleton for coal, pigman for gold, iron golem for iron, drowned for copper. In villages, multiple clerics to buy lapis and redstone. Unlimited diamond armor/tools from villagers. A few diamonds needed for echant tables/jukeboxes can be found by caving.
Farms shouldn't be a crutch for bad game design, though. If the ore distribution is that messed up that people are having to rely on grinders and even AFK farms more often, then Mojang should be taking notes instead of leaving their game a mess for everyone else to clean up.
Caving in new mega caves can yield a lot of resources for single player. Other day, I dug up 5+ stacks of iron in less than an hour from one cave section, and a full stack of redstone blocks, among other things. But for multiplayer environment, things might get scarce.
Farms have been very much a thing long long long before 1.18.
I wouldn't limit this to SMP; so far as I'm concerned farming(includes trade/barter) is superior to caving/mining… unless, of course, one likes caving/monster hunting/mining.
With the 'new' [1.14] villager trading, the only things one needs diamonds for are enchanting tables, jukeboxes, and firework stars. [Since I tend to run maybe 1 jukebox per world and rarely to never use firework stars, thus the only serious drain is enchanting tables – rarely used for enchanting.]
I have always relied on this in order to save ores for fortune, but with iron and gold now having it, this is untenable and I need to mine some ores early on just to get progression.
This, you can just farm and totally avoid mining, although mining is uber exciting in 1.18. Big boi caves no scare me no more pwease
Seriously, diamonds are completely unnecessary in their raw form. You can enchant via books and anvils. Jukeboxes spawn naturally in some structure I believe. There are cheaper firework stars.
That said, farming iron is a bit annoying at first until you get good at it, and farming coal from wither skeletons is always a chore for the amounts you need it in...best stick to wood charcoal and stone early on. I might actually go play a 1.18 game right now to celebrate having a new computer.
Farming resource isn't hard, it's just boring and monotonous, which is why a lot of people go mine for their resources instead of relying on iron and gold farms, as of 1.18 gold farms in the Nether are still possible via Piglin spawning systems, and since Piglin commonly spawn in Crimson forests, this is exploitable.
Mining used to be fun, but with the ores being more scarce than they used to be, it's not very rewarding to go looking for them in these fancy looking new caves.
Enchantments do somewhat mitigate the problem, but how long is this going to last? given Mojang's obsession with nerfing stuff, it's only a matter of time before mending is next on the chopping block. Then how are we supposed to maintain our diamond and netherite gear after that happens? I don't like the direction the game is headed but there's nowt any of us can do to stop it, seeing as it isn't our intellectual property, we are not within legal right to stop them anyhow.
1.19 isn't going to be a nightmarish update at least, it will be adding good stuff like fireflies and frogs, and mangrove trees, more wildlife which is what we've wanted in the game for a long time, any negative? Warden? the Warden will be avoidable so it's not going to matter, we just need to know the specifics of what a deep dark biome would look like by that time, as well as what Y coordinates they can spawn in.
I guess this is a way to expand gameplay time fakely, by adding unnecessary monotony and repetition.
Better ways to extend gameplay have been proposed, such as introducing more structures and hostile mobs to battle.
Bastions can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing with them
if we had increased ground depth in the Nether more biomes AND structures could be put in, and hostile mobs, such as the Greek goblin kallikantzaros.
This is better than messing with the existing stats of the game, and causing people to be upset at Mojang even more.
Games aren't supposed to be like this, games are supposed to be a hobby you enjoy doing.
I think there are nerfs that do make sense to the game, another person brought up the issue with potion status effects stacking, causing the same problem as the enchanted golden apple, where you get a near god mode if you have regeneration and fire resistance stacked.
And in my opinion, with the introduction of steel ingots increasing Iron tool durability using the Smithing table, making iron more useful late game, mending could safely be nerfed to the point where indefinite repairs could only be done on the anvil.
But what Mojang did with 1.18 with ore generation was complete nonsense, why should people have to go find mountain biomes just so they can have a suitable supply of iron? the iron ore generation was fine the way it was before 1.17/1.18.
And what they've done to ore generation didn't discourage me from relying on iron golems, in fact it made me rely on them even more,
and no doubt it has done the same for other people, which is stupid. We shouldn't have to rely on controversial game mechanics just to use a material which isn't even the second best tool and armour material any longer.
While it is true I and many others use diamond tools when we can get them, as I already have now on my current world,
I still use iron for things like Iron doors, trapdoors and iron bars for builds, they have a certain decorative aesthetic that me and other players like.
If you put your mind to it you can use them for a lot of things.
Catwalks in factories, to safely scoop lava with buckets out of vats, trapdoors and iron bars are used for this on my builds late game.
Lamp posts, iron bars are great for that.
You can use them for beacons, although emerald blocks are now preferable no thanks to what 1.18 has done.
Cheap rail systems, which you can use to move villagers about or other mobs conveniently and safely.
You can use iron bars, carpets and banners for making umbrellas, which go great with park benches,
You can use iron trapdoors for making sewer drains, or access points to the sewer tunnel which could be an access point to your mine.
Iron bars are also great for fireplaces as you can imagine,
likewise, iron bars can be used for making prisons or dungeons underneath castles.
You can use Librarians for getting lanterns, no point wasting your own iron on these imo.
I find it funny that people still think this is necessary - TMCW has FAR more underground content than 1.18 despite being no deeper than vanilla (unless you count cave lava level being 7 layers deeper, giving 13% more space for caves below sea level); for example, these are all the various types of caves that can be found, and even "normal" caves have a lot more variation than vanilla with variation on a regional scale independent on biomes, as do mineshafts and dungeons (I'm assuming they are still more or less the same as back in 1.6.4 but with a few tweaks to how mineshafts generate in open caves and surface mineshafts in mesas):
A 6144x6144 map of the seed with the largest cave shown above (otherwise more or less typical), with a total air volume of more than 233 million blocks (10.5% of blocks between layers 4-62), compared to about 103 million blocks (5.27% between layers 11-62) in vanilla 1.6.4:
This only shows "special" cave variants, as shown on the chart above, which still take up over 146 million blocks:
A list of the giant cave regions and 10 largest caves and ravines:
Entire biomes replace stone/dirt/gravel/andesite/etc with biome-specific blocks all the way down to bedrock:
Iceland (a biome unique to TMCW):
Badlands:
There is even a new wood type, "stick", whose planks are crafted from sticks, and is one biome-specific variant that mineshafts may be made out of (generally corresponding to the type of trees found, defaulting to oak, while some treeless biomes use other wood types):
Mesa (distinct from badlands):
Volcanic Wasteland (anotehr one of my own biomes); note that stone is replaced with andesite, while there are veins of stone instead of andesite, which is also found in several other biomes:
Quartz desert (desert with quartz sand instead of yellow sand):
Ice Plains Spikes:
Ice Hills (another biome unique to TMCW):
Jungle (Tropical Swamp also has "cave grass" but not vines):
Mushroom Island:
This is a rendering of what I explored in the first 15 days of caving in my current world; the area in the bottom-center is within a quartz desert, hence the light-colored caves, some screenshots of which are shown below:
There are also many more mobs that you can regularly encounter; cave spiders, silverfish, and endermites all naturally spawn anywhere below sea level (not just from spawners/infested blocks/thrown ender pearls; endermen also spawn endermites when they teleport from a player, a feature which was removed almost as soon as it was added, as were naturally spawning killer rabbits and even giant zombies, all of which naturally spawn in TMCW, instead of just adding useless bloat to the game), as do husks and strays in their respective biomes, which are overall much more common, with many biome-specific variants (yellow husks yellow sand deserts, white husks in quartz desert, red husks in badlands and mesa (not to be confused with Mojang's renaming of mesa to badlands, these are distinct biomes, each with their own unique underground blocks).
Of course, ore generation is basically the same as vanilla, though I still wouldn't say that caving was a good source of rarer ores given that I've still only found about 4.4 diamond ore per hour despite adding extra ores which only generate if exposed in caves to spite Mojang (albeit I did average less rarer ores in TMCWv4 due to differences in cave distribution so this was mainly to bring the ratios closer to vanilla, but this assumes you explore everything underground, not just the deeper layers, so you will find more if you only explore those layers), but you sure can't beat the amount of iron that I've found in just 15 days - more than 10,000, enough to meet anybody's lifetime needs (well, unless you want to build a mansion with them, as some actually try to do in survival, but IMO there is a point where you need to lower your expectations - just because iron blocks exist doesn't necessarily mean they were meant for building, at least on a large scale in Survival mode):
For comparison, this is what I found over a 4 month period in a (mostly) vanilla world - it is interesting that I averaged nearly the exact same amount of ores per play session and when including dungeon/mineshaft blocks I collected more resources overall (mineshafts are less common in TMCW, especially when factoring in an increased volume of caves); Mojang's reasoning for "reduced air exposure" is that more/bigger caves would make ores much easier to find - not so in my experience. Actually, given that I spent a couple days building a new base and railway in October the averages would be higher if those days are excluded (e.g. see November):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I don't try to build mansions with iron blocks, however I do use iron for catwalks in factories as well as lamp posts so it is a considerable resource drain in survival. It's bad enough that each anvil cost 31 ingots each and that they don't last forever, which is almost half a stack, close to the number 32.
Also iron bars can be used as fireguards for fireplaces to prevent fire from spreading, so iron on builds is used for more than just aesthetics, see link below, given that the alternative fence posts are flammable unless you use crimson or warped forest type of wood which weren't added until 1.16, I think it speaks for itself that there are more uses for iron than just providing players with weaponry and armoury.
Minecraft is a sandbox game, part of the reason people came to the game in the first place was to build what they want so I think it's reasonable to expect survival mode to have some leniency in what resources you can collect.
I'm not expecting to build a mansion or castle out of less common resources like diamond or iron blocks, who does this? that's the type of thing you'd expect someone in creative mode to do, but I don't see why I should have to adjust my play style out of what Mojang imposes on people when we've gotten so used to how things were with the game. Eventually when you're constantly being told to adapt to change because of daft opinions a developer may have, it does become annoying, it's a video game and a causal one at that, not real life.
The nerf to ore generation via reduced air exposure is something that should've been reserved for a higher difficulty, or something along those lines,
but instead no compromises had been made here, we're forced to put up with it regardless of our play style. Progress gets slowed down which means more wasted time, time that could've been spent on things we liked doing.
https://minecraft-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Iron_Bars#:~:text=Iron bars can prevent fire,from being lit on fire.