you may end up with hundreds of entities below in a few minutes, reaching the mob cap and getting no mobs on the surface (and in the rest of the server in multiplayer).
That is exactly why there is a mob cap, which is always reached unless you spawnproof the entire spawning radius around you - in fact, the game makes up to tens of thousands of spawn attempts every second:
Spawn area: 15x15 chunks = 225 chunks
Individual spawn attempts per pack: 12
Total number of individual spawn attempts: 2700
x 20 ticks per second = 54000 spawn attempts per second (if every initial pack location is valid and most or all individual spawn attempts fail)
And that's just for hostile mobs, yet the impact on performance is negligible, below 1% of the average tick time, mainly because the game skips a spawn cycle if the mob cap is full:
In fact, passive mobs, which do not despawn and effectively never spawn outside of world generation, which spawns an average of a pack of 4 every 10 chunks (90 within a 225 chunk area, and not limited by the despawn radius so they can exist much further away), have a far greater impact on performance - the increase in tick time as I increased render distance was almost entirely due to the increase in passive mobs, while hostile mobs remained at around 70, the hostile mob cap (note that the client tick time did not increase since the server only sends entities within 80 blocks of the player to the client. The server also only randomly ticks blocks in chunks w9ithin a 15x15 chunk area, or an 8 chunk circular radius in newer versions, so this is unaffected by the view distance).
Interestingly, on Bedrock passive mobs spawn and despawn like hostile mobs, very likely due to performance reasons - the second screenshot was at a render distance of 16, with over 300 passive mobs loaded already, so you could imagine what 32, 64, etc would be like (mind that the loaded area is squared, so 64 chunks would load around 16 times more mobs, increasing tick time to around 50 ms, the maximum allowable time).
That said, I did reduce the per-chunk spawn rates by a factor of 4, partly as an optimization (the game is still able to keep the cap full when flying around; the biggest impact of this change is in an empty Superflat world due to the lack of mobs and low altitude favoring many successful pack spawn attempts; as mentioned above, if the mob cap is full the game doesn't even attempt to spawn more mobs, so it may only run a spawn cycle every few seconds as mobs gradually despawn) as well as a nerf to mob farms (1/4 as efficient); the (de)spawn radius was also reduced to 96 and the "no-spawn zone" around the player was reduced from 24 to 16 to increase the density of mobs around the player, which effectively increases the mob cap by about 2 (somewhere between r^2 = 1.78 and r^3 = 2.37 since terrain intersects a portion of a sphere) without actually increasing it (you can't even see mobs more than 80 blocks away since they aren't sent to the client and the maximum sight range of any mob (Endermen and Ghasts) is 64 blocks so it could even be reduced more).
Also, the game actually reduces the spawn rate on the surface by reducing the success rate by up to half if there is sky light (based on the saved light level, not day-night adjusted level), along with the usual failure rate due to light (I presume that in 1.18 sky light still affects spawn rates as it did before, with a level/8 failure rate, so a light level of 4 at night means a additional 50% failure rate so mobs only spawn at 25% of the rate as they would in a dark cave):
The light level divided by 8 is the chance of a spawn failing; thus mobs spawn at light level 7 and below. In the Overworld, this follows internal skylight level as well as block light level. Internal light level is affected by thunderstorms. Spawns with sky access in the Overworld have an additional 50% failure rate when the light level is 15.
I'm under the impression Mojang thought people don't go spelunking because it's too scary, while they don't because it's (arguably) less efficient than strip-mining. And, as usual, their solution creates more problems to not fix an non-issue. Unless someone at Microsoft told them to make the game even more child-friendly, an hypothesis that might be a little far-fetched but, hey, they're running a business, not a hippie commune.
I would actually guess that they listened to the squeaky wheels who wanted more cave-mining. Never mind that it destroys the number of resources in the world (per chunk or whatever other measures of overall volume you want to use).
IF they had included some kind of mapping capability, it would have been OK. But, I don't like large caves because they're nearly impossible to navigate. And without a decent in-game mapping capability, C&C makes the game basically obnoxious to me.
Mojang, if you read these: Add a mapping tool that works underground (a minimap or something like that), And increase the abysmal resource quantities. I like the terrain changes overall, but those two elements make the game a lot less fun to play at 1.18.
This sounds incredibly boring; fighting mobs is a major reason why I find caving to be fun, and if you tried exploring a large cave in TMCW you'd be fighting hundreds and hundreds of mobs; even in vanilla 1.6.4 I average more than 300 mobs per play session:
Boring is fun (to me) if you're doing something else. I'm not a fan of having too many mobs nearby, so I like the drop to light-level zero for mob-spawning.
I DON'T like the change that's supposed to change spawners to light-level eleven, but since it's not working (the way they said it would) right now, that's fine with me.
I would actually guess that they listened to the squeaky wheels who wanted more cave-mining. Never mind that it destroys the number of resources in the world (per chunk or whatever other measures of overall volume you want to use).
Again, I have no idea why this bothers you so much - you should have seen what the underground was like before 1.7:
Running Cartograph and Minecraft X-Ray scans for the 10 experimental worlds I generated recently shows that in numerous chunks, the frequency of Air blocks actually somehow outnumbers the Stone. Around the 30 altitude mark lies vast expanses of Abandoned Mineshafts and interconnected caves, spanning in some cases over 3 kilometers long in a continuous network.
Here are screenshots I took with MCEdit (similar to Spectator mode, which 1.6.4 doesn't have):
This is what it looks like under spawn:
A top-down view into a typical large cave system:
And yet, I've mined MILLIONS of ores at the rate of thousands every day - and even those are only a small fraction of all the ores that exist - can anybody even possibly use three-quarters of a million iron, 18,000 diamonds, or two million coal (and that's nearly all without Fortune)?!
In fact, as the thread I quoted above points out people used to complain a lot that there were too many caves and they made it too easy to collect resources:
How does it make the game too easy? Well, I can just walk around or dig for 10 minutes, find a cave system, and walk out 10 minutes later with a stack of iron and 3 stacks of coal. There's no point in mining anymore, and in fact, mining would just be disrupted because you would hit caves every few minutes. Caves and ravines aren't special anymore, they're just annoying now. I look in my chest of coal and iron, and it just feels wrong. I'm not proud of having so much resources, because it doesn't feel like I actually worked for them. All I did was accidentally find a cave, and now I have more resources than I'll ever need.
Another flaw of the current generator is the underground generation. There are simply too many caves, and this problem is existent in every world, just like our height variation problem. Often, I find myself bored in-game, because within the first five minutes of a newly created world, I'm already set for life because I found a cave that extends on and on. Literally, we can now find stacks of iron ore and enough diamond to last us half a year within the first hour of gameplay!
Of course, after 1.7 you started seeing more of the opposite complaint, showing it is impossible to please everybody without a true world customization (1.8 added an option to disable caves but not any way to actually alter them without mods, and I'm sure the same applies to 1.13's world customization options):
I've been playing on my 1.8.4 world and all the caves I get are small and shallow. None connect. All the ravines are shallow. I have no way of getting diamonds.
I DON'T like the change that's supposed to change spawners to light-level eleven, but since it's not working (the way they said it would) right now, that's fine with me.
Mob spawners in vanilla are incredibly lame and easy to take down, which is why I increased their spawn rates so much - as many as one mob every single second instead of every 6.25 seconds (on average, with 10-40 seconds between spawn attempts - more than enough time to run in, kill a mob or two, and break the spawner, without even placing any torches beyond the entrance, which won't prevent spawns further inside). You certainly can't get away with that in TMCW, which even has special "double dungeons" with two spawners each spawning a different mob (thus mobs from one spawner will not count towards the local cap of the other):
You can get an idea of how hard it can be to bring one of these under control from all the torches spammed everywhere and the holes in the walls, which I mined behind to get access to the other sides (this one was made even more fun due to a cave spider spawner, which I'd already mined):
They can also have witches, creepers (spawners were made immune to creeper explosions), and endermen (they are automatically hostile if you get too close), and I added cave spider/creeper/skeleton/witch spawners under the chests in stronghold corridors and silverfish spawners to libraries, and desert temples have a variant that can have 2 skeleton and/or zombie spawners in the upper part. The only spawners that were not modified are blaze spawners (fun fact: when TMCWv1 was first developed they spawned blazes every 5-10 seconds; it was literally impossible for me to bring one under control until I switched to Peaceful).
Even in my first world I halved the maximum delay to get a more reasonable spawn rate, and in both it and TMCW the countdown continues when the player is out of range (a newly generated spawner has its delay set to 20 ticks or 1 second, which I count down to if they are out of range; when caving you can come close enough to trigger a spawner long before you actually find it, and in the worst-case the mobs have despawned and it will take 40 seconds to spawn more):
int delay = (this.mobID.equals("Blaze") ? this.maxSpawnDelay : this.maxSpawnDelay / 2) - this.minSpawnDelay;
this.spawnDelay = this.minSpawnDelay + this.nextInt(delay);
if (canRun())
{
// spawning code here
}
else if (this.spawnDelay > 20)
{
--this.spawnDelay; // vanilla only decrements spawnDelay within the if block
}
There are three things I hate, 1: diamonds are super rare now which is so so annoying that I just want to quit playing, 2: They got rid of the modified jungle edge which is so bad as that biome is the rarest in the game and now that it's gone the whole game ruined. 3: this is a bedrock-only problem but the old world option is gone and now I can't do an old world survival that I been wanting to do and now I can't do it. Thank you, Mojang for ruining the game!
EDIT: I hope that I'm not getting harsh at Mojang, but I want them to read this as this is so dam fuming! BTW the new mountains and caves are so freaking awesome! But the issue is that the giant cave openings scattered around the world are dangerous as you can accidentally fall into them especially if you are speedrunning and plus if you are playing on hardcore you will most likely die as the openings are deep or you could fall in lava if you are extremely unlucky. But if your boots have feather falling and have fire protection or drink a fire resistance potion, if you do an MLG water bucket, or if you luckily fall into some water you will be fine though.
Game optimization is the biggest issue at the moment, especially with the additional height, meaning more block spaces - it's just getting worse, and I doubt any sort of refactoring is taking place based on the decreased performance I've noticed with each update (despite their claims that it is improving - I just don't see that and wonder how others do). The code is getting really bloated with features, and without an update focused on optimizing it, the performance will continue to get worse.
But regarding the terrain - you will still find flat terrain in 1.18, and an abundance of it. You would just need to look for it more so than you would in 1.17 for example. It's not all hills and mountains. Alternatively you could make a world in 1.17 instead, and update it later on after you've loaded a good portion of the chunks (maybe when 1.19 is released).
And what? Bedrock is forced to update? That alone is a reason I would never play it (I still play in 1.15).
That has been an issue with bedrock edition since the beginning, you were always forced to deal with updates for better or worse.
It is one advantage Java edition has over bedrock edition at the moment until content parity is complete and if Mojang decides to make updates non mandatory for bedrock edition in the near future.
I'm mostly satisfied with the new generation. Maybe just because it's new and I was tired of the old generation after 8 years.
The only thing I don't like is rivers, which are too wide and they don't look like rivers anymore... They look more like lakes or reservoirs, and now building bridges from one side to the other is not very appealing anymore, because either you make a huge bridge like this one which was massively upvoted the other day on Reddit, or you'd better not try to make anything:
Yes, an impressive job, but not doable on survival for most players.
Just to clarify, most 1.18 rivers are like these ones:
They are so wide that sometimes almost overlap each other like in this image.
I think the problem has to do with the transition between a regular biome and the river biome... In previous versions, the regular biome ended where the water started, and the river biome coincided with the extension of the water... In 1.18, however, the river biome starts in the middle of the river, so that only half of the water you see in the image is actually the river biome, while the water near the mesa biome is actually part of the mesa biome. And that happens with all the rivers and all the biomes.
It looks like a bad implementation of rivers to me, like if they have given up after many tries.
I'm mostly satisfied with the new generation. Maybe just because it's new and I was tired of the old generation after 8 years.
The only thing I don't like is rivers, which are too wide and they don't look like rivers anymore... They look more like lakes or reservoirs, and now building bridges from one side to the other is not very appealing anymore, because either you make a huge bridge like this one which was massively upvoted the other day on Reddit, or you'd better not try to make anything:
Yes, an impressive job, but not doable on survival for most players.
Just to clarify, most 1.18 rivers are like these ones:
They are so wide that sometimes almost overlap each other like in this image.
I think the problem has to do with the transition between a regular biome and the river biome... In previous versions, the regular biome ended where the water started, and the river biome coincided with the extension of the water... In 1.18, however, the river biome starts in the middle of the river, so that only half of the water you see in the image is actually the river biome, while the water near the mesa biome is actually part of the mesa biome. And that happens with all the rivers and all the biomes.
It looks like a bad implementation of rivers to me, like if they have given up after many tries.
I don't see what's wrong with this? Rivers looking like lakes sometimes just means more variation, same thing when rivers turn into a saddle valley.
I'm mostly satisfied with the new generation. Maybe just because it's new and I was tired of the old generation after 8 years.
The only thing I don't like is rivers, which are too wide and they don't look like rivers anymore... They look more like lakes or reservoirs, and now building bridges from one side to the other is not very appealing anymore, because either you make a huge bridge like this one which was massively upvoted the other day on Reddit, or you'd better not try to make anything:
Yes, an impressive job, but not doable on survival for most players.
Just to clarify, most 1.18 rivers are like these ones:
They are so wide that sometimes almost overlap each other like in this image.
I think the problem has to do with the transition between a regular biome and the river biome... In previous versions, the regular biome ended where the water started, and the river biome coincided with the extension of the water... In 1.18, however, the river biome starts in the middle of the river, so that only half of the water you see in the image is actually the river biome, while the water near the mesa biome is actually part of the mesa biome. And that happens with all the rivers and all the biomes.
It looks like a bad implementation of rivers to me, like if they have given up after many tries.
I don't see what's wrong with this? Rivers looking like lakes sometimes just means more variation, same thing when rivers turn into a saddle valley.
What I mean by the OLD world is the OLD-type world which was a world type available on the bedrock edition where it was a 256x256x128 world with no access to the nether or the end. I'm not winging about the new terrain generation, it's just the huge cave openings scattered everywhere.
Why I hate that diamonds are so rare, It's because now I have to go deep down into the massive caves below y=0 which is annoying as the caves are full of mods and are dangerous and they are rare (they are rarer than emeralds and netherite!) And now that the modified jungle edge is gone that I will not find it naturally (i have only been in one by teleporting to one on a seed that had one a few hundred blocks from spawn. Now the mushroom fields biome is the rarest biome in the game! HOW DARE MOJANG REMOVED THE BEST THING IN THE GAME!!!!! (I bet Notch is going to get mad if he finds out about this!) Now Minecraft feels like a different game. Instead of the buggy, glitched, and broken terrain the game has been synonymous with for nearly a decade, it's now completely different! This is so ludicrous and unreal! Now, this is just turning into an argument over Mojang removing the best features in the game and ruining it! Thank you, Mojang!
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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I may join all the dissatisfied players, because I simply like the old generator,
and the 1.18 changes simply overwhelmed me...
However, remember - in Java edition you need not to play the latest version
As for me, the older versions (up to 1.17) are rich enough to play them still for years...
And there is also plenty of great Mods, besides of custom Data Packs, Resource Packs etc.
that may make the game still really addictive
So, lets relax about all the 1.18 changes, as maybe some of you simply do not need them at all... ?
I may join all the dissatisfied players, because I simply like the old generator,
and the 1.18 changes simply overwhelmed me...
However, remember - in Java edition you need not to play the latest version
As for me, the older versions (up to 1.17) are rich enough to play them still for years...
And there is also plenty of great Mods, besides of custom Data Packs, Resource Packs etc.
that may make the game still really addictive
So, lets relax about all the 1.18 changes, as maybe some of you simply do not need them at all... ?
Us Java edition players are spoiled rotten as we can just simply play older versions! plus also Java edition players can customize their experience with hundreds of thousands of mods, data packs, custom skins, and resource packs! But poor old bedrock edition players have to be stuck with the latest version, mods and custom skins are pocket edition/Windows 10 edition exclusive so PS4/PS5, Xbox One/Xbox Series X/S, and Nintendo switch players are stuck with the vanilla and marketplace content! This is so sad and pathetic on the bedrock players they have to miss out on the Java edition perks I also play bedrock but I'm very lucky to have both! I think Mojang prefers Java edition and is leaving behind bedrock edition for Microsoft to sort out! At least one perk with bedrock as with bedrock resource packs, you can completely customize the UI whereas Java edition resource packs, you can only change the textures which is ok as the Java UI is a trillion times better than bedrock!
Us Java edition players are spoiled rotten as we can just simply play older versions! plus also Java edition players can customize their experience with hundreds of thousands of mods, data packs, custom skins, and resource packs! But poor old bedrock edition players have to be stuck with the latest version, mods and custom skins are pocket edition/Windows 10 edition exclusive so PS4/PS5, Xbox One/Xbox Series X/S, and Nintendo switch players are stuck with the vanilla and marketplace content! This is so sad and pathetic on the bedrock players they have to miss out on the Java edition perks I also play bedrock but I'm very lucky to have both! I think Mojang prefers Java edition and is leaving behind bedrock edition for Microsoft to sort out! At least one perk with bedrock as with bedrock resource packs, you can completely customize the UI whereas Java edition resource packs, you can only change the textures which is ok as the Java UI is a trillion times better than bedrock!
even if you could mod bedrock edition, the mandatory updates would break them over time, having experience with Forge mod loader I know how that works on Java edition and it can be an inconvenience to have to load an older version just for the sake of using mods. I haven't been able to make a multiplayer modded server although I'm sure it can be done, I just haven't figured out how to do it, I've only ever done it in single player on Java.
Behaviour packs in bedrock edition don't even function like true mods, because they replace some of the items in the game, rather than add more. Addons in bedrock edition are so inferior to Java edition mods it's not even funny.
Another feature that is exclusive to Java edition is achievements are not universal, if you start a new world you have to earn achievements all over again, which depending on your play style can be interesting, and you get an actual fresh start every time you start a new vanilla world. Bedrock edition achievements are universal so don't work on a per world basis, once you've earned them all, there's nothing left to do except fight hostile mobs, grind for materials, build and explore.
Bedrock Edition is crap! Java edition for the win! (I'm sorry bedrock players!) Nah, I'm just kidding! Bedrock is still great, I just don't like how that it's a bit more restricted. Java edition should be made mandatory for bedrock players!
I may join all the dissatisfied players, because I simply like the old generator,
and the 1.18 changes simply overwhelmed me...
However, remember - in Java edition you need not to play the latest version
As for me, the older versions (up to 1.17) are rich enough to play them still for years...
And there is also plenty of great Mods, besides of custom Data Packs, Resource Packs etc.
that may make the game still really addictive
So, lets relax about all the 1.18 changes, as maybe some of you simply do not need them at all... ?
I was about to buy a copy of Bedrock, but this one issue forced me to cancel that idea. I love the terrain generation, but the resources are just too sparse. If I can't play the older versions, it's hard to justify playing at all. So they lost my money.
I was about to buy a copy of Bedrock, but this one issue forced me to cancel that idea. I love the terrain generation, but the resources are just too sparse. If I can't play the older versions, it's hard to justify playing at all. So they lost my money.
I think Mojang is starting to get strange! We need Notch back!
There are three things I hate, 1: diamonds are super rare now which is so so annoying that I just want to quit playing, 2: They got rid of the modified jungle edge which is so bad as that biome is the rarest in the game and now that it's gone the whole game ruined. 3: this is a bedrock-only problem but the old world option is gone and now I can't do an old world survival that I been wanting to do and now I can't do it. Thank you, Mojang for ruining the game!
EDIT: I hope that I'm not getting harsh at Mojang, but I want them to read this as this is so dam fuming! BTW the new mountains and caves are so freaking awesome! But the issue is that the giant cave openings scattered around the world are dangerous as you can accidentally fall into them especially if you are speedrunning and plus if you are playing on hardcore you will most likely die as the openings are deep or you could fall in lava if you are extremely unlucky. But if your boots have feather falling and have fire protection or drink a fire resistance potion, if you do an MLG water bucket, or if you luckily fall into some water you will be fine though.
No, you should be harsh. We are a minority. They wont just listen to us. To them we are nothing, but being as harsh as possible may make them at the very least consider adding a fix for these things. I already didnt really like Mojang, cuz the updates since 1.13 havent been as interesting and I finally though 1.18 could fix that and they ruined the game with bad terrain generation. I just wish they used their one braincell and added an option to configure it ourselves. It would have automatically improved 1.18, but instead they just messed it up
I completely agree with what has been said about the terrain generation having its faults (at least on Java 1.18.1). For me after several weeks of playthroughs on multiple generated worlds I am still disappointed. The main issue I have with the terrain is that I keep getting massive sinkholes all around my map. In the snapshots I didn't see too much of this, or it didn't seem to be excessive.
However, In the last 3 worlds that I generated the map has multiple places that look like an asteroid hit. The subsequent caves that go along with all seem to be submerged in deep water as well. I appreciate the challenge of having much higher, and lower volumes to have to deal with, but not in such an unrealistic way. Floating trees, with 1 block wide dirt paths under them, lakes that are up to 40 blocks below the surface of the land, and an overall lack of iron ore (even at appropriate depths) has made the whole thing feel boring and not as much fun as I remember.
I do appreciate however, the new additions of items, blocks and the like. More diversity is always a good thing for this game. But I am hoping that when the Devs are all back from Holiday they can figure out whats up with the overall generation and how it is playing out.
I completely agree with what has been said about the terrain generation having its faults (at least on Java 1.18.1). For me after several weeks of playthroughs on multiple generated worlds I am still disappointed. The main issue I have with the terrain is that I keep getting massive sinkholes all around my map. In the snapshots I didn't see too much of this, or it didn't seem to be excessive.
However, In the last 3 worlds that I generated the map has multiple places that look like an asteroid hit. The subsequent caves that go along with all seem to be submerged in deep water as well. I appreciate the challenge of having much higher, and lower volumes to have to deal with, but not in such an unrealistic way. Floating trees, with 1 block wide dirt paths under them, lakes that are up to 40 blocks below the surface of the land, and an overall lack of iron ore (even at appropriate depths) has made the whole thing feel boring and not as much fun as I remember.
I do appreciate however, the new additions of items, blocks and the like. More diversity is always a good thing for this game. But I am hoping that when the Devs are all back from Holiday they can figure out whats up with the overall generation and how it is playing out.
They're not going to fix it, if they were going to, they would've done so on the release of 1.18 since that is the final part of Caves and Cliffs update. They kept you waiting for months for them to finish the terrain generation and nothing has improved about ore distribution since the experimental and snapshot releases.
I'm sorry but the new materials do not justify this nonsense, and copper isn't even that useful at the moment, nor is deepslate, deepslate does what stone already does and it has the same blast resistance, while taking longer to mine than regular stone. Tuff is even worse, not because it is slower to mine, it's not, but because it has no practical uses whatsoever and is probably the least popular material in this update for that reason. Dripstone made lava renewable so that's good, and thanks to moss blocks we can make mossy cobblestone and mossy stone bricks, moss carpets are good because you can place them over light sources and spawn proof your territory and have great looking gardens with the new azalea tree, so there are some good things that did happen with this update, but what Mojang did to the ore distribution sort of negates the good in my opinion, as it has made it a complete grind fest to get a good amount of something even as basic as Iron ore.
That is exactly why there is a mob cap, which is always reached unless you spawnproof the entire spawning radius around you - in fact, the game makes up to tens of thousands of spawn attempts every second:
And that's just for hostile mobs, yet the impact on performance is negligible, below 1% of the average tick time, mainly because the game skips a spawn cycle if the mob cap is full:
In fact, passive mobs, which do not despawn and effectively never spawn outside of world generation, which spawns an average of a pack of 4 every 10 chunks (90 within a 225 chunk area, and not limited by the despawn radius so they can exist much further away), have a far greater impact on performance - the increase in tick time as I increased render distance was almost entirely due to the increase in passive mobs, while hostile mobs remained at around 70, the hostile mob cap (note that the client tick time did not increase since the server only sends entities within 80 blocks of the player to the client. The server also only randomly ticks blocks in chunks w9ithin a 15x15 chunk area, or an 8 chunk circular radius in newer versions, so this is unaffected by the view distance).
Interestingly, on Bedrock passive mobs spawn and despawn like hostile mobs, very likely due to performance reasons - the second screenshot was at a render distance of 16, with over 300 passive mobs loaded already, so you could imagine what 32, 64, etc would be like (mind that the loaded area is squared, so 64 chunks would load around 16 times more mobs, increasing tick time to around 50 ms, the maximum allowable time).
That said, I did reduce the per-chunk spawn rates by a factor of 4, partly as an optimization (the game is still able to keep the cap full when flying around; the biggest impact of this change is in an empty Superflat world due to the lack of mobs and low altitude favoring many successful pack spawn attempts; as mentioned above, if the mob cap is full the game doesn't even attempt to spawn more mobs, so it may only run a spawn cycle every few seconds as mobs gradually despawn) as well as a nerf to mob farms (1/4 as efficient); the (de)spawn radius was also reduced to 96 and the "no-spawn zone" around the player was reduced from 24 to 16 to increase the density of mobs around the player, which effectively increases the mob cap by about 2 (somewhere between r^2 = 1.78 and r^3 = 2.37 since terrain intersects a portion of a sphere) without actually increasing it (you can't even see mobs more than 80 blocks away since they aren't sent to the client and the maximum sight range of any mob (Endermen and Ghasts) is 64 blocks so it could even be reduced more).
Also, the game actually reduces the spawn rate on the surface by reducing the success rate by up to half if there is sky light (based on the saved light level, not day-night adjusted level), along with the usual failure rate due to light (I presume that in 1.18 sky light still affects spawn rates as it did before, with a level/8 failure rate, so a light level of 4 at night means a additional 50% failure rate so mobs only spawn at 25% of the rate as they would in a dark cave):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I would actually guess that they listened to the squeaky wheels who wanted more cave-mining. Never mind that it destroys the number of resources in the world (per chunk or whatever other measures of overall volume you want to use).
IF they had included some kind of mapping capability, it would have been OK. But, I don't like large caves because they're nearly impossible to navigate. And without a decent in-game mapping capability, C&C makes the game basically obnoxious to me.
Mojang, if you read these: Add a mapping tool that works underground (a minimap or something like that), And increase the abysmal resource quantities. I like the terrain changes overall, but those two elements make the game a lot less fun to play at 1.18.
Boring is fun (to me) if you're doing something else. I'm not a fan of having too many mobs nearby, so I like the drop to light-level zero for mob-spawning.
I DON'T like the change that's supposed to change spawners to light-level eleven, but since it's not working (the way they said it would) right now, that's fine with me.
Again, I have no idea why this bothers you so much - you should have seen what the underground was like before 1.7:
They are not exaggerating:
Here are screenshots I took with MCEdit (similar to Spectator mode, which 1.6.4 doesn't have):
A top-down view into a typical large cave system:
And yet, I've mined MILLIONS of ores at the rate of thousands every day - and even those are only a small fraction of all the ores that exist - can anybody even possibly use three-quarters of a million iron, 18,000 diamonds, or two million coal (and that's nearly all without Fortune)?!
In fact, as the thread I quoted above points out people used to complain a lot that there were too many caves and they made it too easy to collect resources:
Of course, after 1.7 you started seeing more of the opposite complaint, showing it is impossible to please everybody without a true world customization (1.8 added an option to disable caves but not any way to actually alter them without mods, and I'm sure the same applies to 1.13's world customization options):
Mob spawners in vanilla are incredibly lame and easy to take down, which is why I increased their spawn rates so much - as many as one mob every single second instead of every 6.25 seconds (on average, with 10-40 seconds between spawn attempts - more than enough time to run in, kill a mob or two, and break the spawner, without even placing any torches beyond the entrance, which won't prevent spawns further inside). You certainly can't get away with that in TMCW, which even has special "double dungeons" with two spawners each spawning a different mob (thus mobs from one spawner will not count towards the local cap of the other):
You can get an idea of how hard it can be to bring one of these under control from all the torches spammed everywhere and the holes in the walls, which I mined behind to get access to the other sides (this one was made even more fun due to a cave spider spawner, which I'd already mined):
They can also have witches, creepers (spawners were made immune to creeper explosions), and endermen (they are automatically hostile if you get too close), and I added cave spider/creeper/skeleton/witch spawners under the chests in stronghold corridors and silverfish spawners to libraries, and desert temples have a variant that can have 2 skeleton and/or zombie spawners in the upper part. The only spawners that were not modified are blaze spawners (fun fact: when TMCWv1 was first developed they spawned blazes every 5-10 seconds; it was literally impossible for me to bring one under control until I switched to Peaceful).
Even in my first world I halved the maximum delay to get a more reasonable spawn rate, and in both it and TMCW the countdown continues when the player is out of range (a newly generated spawner has its delay set to 20 ticks or 1 second, which I count down to if they are out of range; when caving you can come close enough to trigger a spawner long before you actually find it, and in the worst-case the mobs have despawned and it will take 40 seconds to spawn more):
int delay = (this.mobID.equals("Blaze") ? this.maxSpawnDelay : this.maxSpawnDelay / 2) - this.minSpawnDelay; this.spawnDelay = this.minSpawnDelay + this.nextInt(delay); if (canRun()) { // spawning code here } else if (this.spawnDelay > 20) { --this.spawnDelay; // vanilla only decrements spawnDelay within the if block }TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
There are three things I hate, 1: diamonds are super rare now which is so so annoying that I just want to quit playing, 2: They got rid of the modified jungle edge which is so bad as that biome is the rarest in the game and now that it's gone the whole game ruined. 3: this is a bedrock-only problem but the old world option is gone and now I can't do an old world survival that I been wanting to do and now I can't do it. Thank you, Mojang for ruining the game!
EDIT: I hope that I'm not getting harsh at Mojang, but I want them to read this as this is so dam fuming! BTW the new mountains and caves are so freaking awesome! But the issue is that the giant cave openings scattered around the world are dangerous as you can accidentally fall into them especially if you are speedrunning and plus if you are playing on hardcore you will most likely die as the openings are deep or you could fall in lava if you are extremely unlucky. But if your boots have feather falling and have fire protection or drink a fire resistance potion, if you do an MLG water bucket, or if you luckily fall into some water you will be fine though.
Minecraft expert and Minecrafter since 2016.
That has been an issue with bedrock edition since the beginning, you were always forced to deal with updates for better or worse.
It is one advantage Java edition has over bedrock edition at the moment until content parity is complete and if Mojang decides to make updates non mandatory for bedrock edition in the near future.
I'm mostly satisfied with the new generation. Maybe just because it's new and I was tired of the old generation after 8 years.
The only thing I don't like is rivers, which are too wide and they don't look like rivers anymore... They look more like lakes or reservoirs, and now building bridges from one side to the other is not very appealing anymore, because either you make a huge bridge like this one which was massively upvoted the other day on Reddit, or you'd better not try to make anything:
Yes, an impressive job, but not doable on survival for most players.
Just to clarify, most 1.18 rivers are like these ones:
They are so wide that sometimes almost overlap each other like in this image.
I think the problem has to do with the transition between a regular biome and the river biome... In previous versions, the regular biome ended where the water started, and the river biome coincided with the extension of the water... In 1.18, however, the river biome starts in the middle of the river, so that only half of the water you see in the image is actually the river biome, while the water near the mesa biome is actually part of the mesa biome. And that happens with all the rivers and all the biomes.
It looks like a bad implementation of rivers to me, like if they have given up after many tries.
I don't see what's wrong with this? Rivers looking like lakes sometimes just means more variation, same thing when rivers turn into a saddle valley.
What I mean by the OLD world is the OLD-type world which was a world type available on the bedrock edition where it was a 256x256x128 world with no access to the nether or the end. I'm not winging about the new terrain generation, it's just the huge cave openings scattered everywhere.
Minecraft expert and Minecrafter since 2016.
Why I hate that diamonds are so rare, It's because now I have to go deep down into the massive caves below y=0 which is annoying as the caves are full of mods and are dangerous and they are rare (they are rarer than emeralds and netherite!) And now that the modified jungle edge is gone that I will not find it naturally (i have only been in one by teleporting to one on a seed that had one a few hundred blocks from spawn. Now the mushroom fields biome is the rarest biome in the game! HOW DARE MOJANG REMOVED THE BEST THING IN THE GAME!!!!! (I bet Notch is going to get mad if he finds out about this!) Now Minecraft feels like a different game. Instead of the buggy, glitched, and broken terrain the game has been synonymous with for nearly a decade, it's now completely different! This is so ludicrous and unreal! Now, this is just turning into an argument over Mojang removing the best features in the game and ruining it! Thank you, Mojang!
Minecraft expert and Minecrafter since 2016.
I may join all the dissatisfied players, because I simply like the old generator,
and the 1.18 changes simply overwhelmed me...
However, remember - in Java edition you need not to play the latest version
As for me, the older versions (up to 1.17) are rich enough to play them still for years...
And there is also plenty of great Mods, besides of custom Data Packs, Resource Packs etc.
that may make the game still really addictive
So, lets relax about all the 1.18 changes, as maybe some of you simply do not need them at all... ?
Us Java edition players are spoiled rotten as we can just simply play older versions! plus also Java edition players can customize their experience with hundreds of thousands of mods, data packs, custom skins, and resource packs! But poor old bedrock edition players have to be stuck with the latest version, mods and custom skins are pocket edition/Windows 10 edition exclusive so PS4/PS5, Xbox One/Xbox Series X/S, and Nintendo switch players are stuck with the vanilla and marketplace content! This is so sad and pathetic on the bedrock players they have to miss out on the Java edition perks
I also play bedrock but I'm very lucky to have both! I think Mojang prefers Java edition and is leaving behind bedrock edition for Microsoft to sort out! At least one perk with bedrock as with bedrock resource packs, you can completely customize the UI whereas Java edition resource packs, you can only change the textures which is ok as the Java UI is a trillion times better than bedrock!
Minecraft expert and Minecrafter since 2016.
even if you could mod bedrock edition, the mandatory updates would break them over time, having experience with Forge mod loader I know how that works on Java edition and it can be an inconvenience to have to load an older version just for the sake of using mods. I haven't been able to make a multiplayer modded server although I'm sure it can be done, I just haven't figured out how to do it, I've only ever done it in single player on Java.
Behaviour packs in bedrock edition don't even function like true mods, because they replace some of the items in the game, rather than add more. Addons in bedrock edition are so inferior to Java edition mods it's not even funny.
Another feature that is exclusive to Java edition is achievements are not universal, if you start a new world you have to earn achievements all over again, which depending on your play style can be interesting, and you get an actual fresh start every time you start a new vanilla world. Bedrock edition achievements are universal so don't work on a per world basis, once you've earned them all, there's nothing left to do except fight hostile mobs, grind for materials, build and explore.
Bedrock Edition is crap! Java edition for the win! (I'm sorry bedrock players!) Nah, I'm just kidding! Bedrock is still great, I just don't like how that it's a bit more restricted. Java edition should be made mandatory for bedrock players!
Minecraft expert and Minecrafter since 2016.
I was about to buy a copy of Bedrock, but this one issue forced me to cancel that idea. I love the terrain generation, but the resources are just too sparse. If I can't play the older versions, it's hard to justify playing at all. So they lost my money.
I think Mojang is starting to get strange! We need Notch back!
Minecraft expert and Minecrafter since 2016.
No, you should be harsh. We are a minority. They wont just listen to us. To them we are nothing, but being as harsh as possible may make them at the very least consider adding a fix for these things. I already didnt really like Mojang, cuz the updates since 1.13 havent been as interesting and I finally though 1.18 could fix that and they ruined the game with bad terrain generation. I just wish they used their one braincell and added an option to configure it ourselves. It would have automatically improved 1.18, but instead they just messed it up
I hate life :_)
I completely agree with what has been said about the terrain generation having its faults (at least on Java 1.18.1). For me after several weeks of playthroughs on multiple generated worlds I am still disappointed. The main issue I have with the terrain is that I keep getting massive sinkholes all around my map. In the snapshots I didn't see too much of this, or it didn't seem to be excessive.
However, In the last 3 worlds that I generated the map has multiple places that look like an asteroid hit. The subsequent caves that go along with all seem to be submerged in deep water as well. I appreciate the challenge of having much higher, and lower volumes to have to deal with, but not in such an unrealistic way. Floating trees, with 1 block wide dirt paths under them, lakes that are up to 40 blocks below the surface of the land, and an overall lack of iron ore (even at appropriate depths) has made the whole thing feel boring and not as much fun as I remember.
I do appreciate however, the new additions of items, blocks and the like. More diversity is always a good thing for this game. But I am hoping that when the Devs are all back from Holiday they can figure out whats up with the overall generation and how it is playing out.
y e s
They're not going to fix it, if they were going to, they would've done so on the release of 1.18 since that is the final part of Caves and Cliffs update. They kept you waiting for months for them to finish the terrain generation and nothing has improved about ore distribution since the experimental and snapshot releases.
I'm sorry but the new materials do not justify this nonsense, and copper isn't even that useful at the moment, nor is deepslate, deepslate does what stone already does and it has the same blast resistance, while taking longer to mine than regular stone. Tuff is even worse, not because it is slower to mine, it's not, but because it has no practical uses whatsoever and is probably the least popular material in this update for that reason. Dripstone made lava renewable so that's good, and thanks to moss blocks we can make mossy cobblestone and mossy stone bricks, moss carpets are good because you can place them over light sources and spawn proof your territory and have great looking gardens with the new azalea tree, so there are some good things that did happen with this update, but what Mojang did to the ore distribution sort of negates the good in my opinion, as it has made it a complete grind fest to get a good amount of something even as basic as Iron ore.