It's like they hate players that want to actually do end-game level setups. Supply and demand is a massive mistake, and villagers only being able to restock twice per day is an even more massive one.
Might as well never bother with any non-librarian villagers again with these horrible changes. They're gutting trading into the ground. Those of us with big auto-farms and villager trading centers are going to be emptying out our stocks as quickly as we can before all of these systems become effectively useless. Then there's the iron golem farms being decimated, the villagers having to be next to their workbenches to restock, and no other changes to trades or new good trades (except the globe pattern and everything the Mason and Wanderer sell). All of the trades that were garbage before will still be garbage, the prices haven't been changed, and certain villagers will continue to be completely and utterly worthless (leatherworker, butcher, fletcher).
Is Mojang actually aware of what the real problems with trading are that need updating? From the way things have been going so far, it certainly seems like they aren't. The structure changes to villages are great, but aside from that, the focal point of the entire update is looking quite terrible, it's just a nerftrain smashing all of our farms and trade systems into paste.
It's like they hate players that want to actually do end-game level setups. Supply and demand is a massive mistake, and villagers only being able to restock twice per day is an even more massive one.
Might as well never bother with any non-librarian villagers again with these horrible changes. They're gutting trading into the ground. Those of us with big auto-farms and villager trading centers are going to be emptying out our stocks as quickly as we can before all of these systems become effectively useless. Then there's the iron golem farms being decimated, the villagers having to be next to their workbenches to restock, and no other changes to trades or new good trades (except the globe pattern and everything the Mason and Wanderer sell). All of the trades that were garbage before will still be garbage, the prices haven't been changed, and certain villagers will continue to be completely and utterly worthless (leatherworker, butcher, fletcher).
Is Mojang actually aware of what the real problems with trading are that need updating? From the way things have been going so far, it certainly seems like they aren't. The structure changes to villages are great, but aside from that, the focal point of the entire update is looking quite terrible, it's just a nerftrain smashing all of our farms and trade systems into paste.
It's not that they hate them, they see them as a problem that needs to be slowed down and/or stopped, and the only way they know of to stop them is to make the trading system very time consuming and tedious. Or, as you put it, run them over with a gigantic nerf train.
All this actually does is create a different problem which will be villages that are turned into treadmills where villagers are no longer kept around forever and are killed off as soon as they are no longer viable as needed/wanted trades end up locked constantly.
To be fair, butchers are useful if you have chickens and pigs to get emeralds and fletchers are very useful if you don't have an infinity bow because having to place and break stacks and stacks and stacks of gravel to get flint is very time consuming.
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Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
No trade the butcher has is anywhere near even the neighborhood of efficiency that potatoes, carrots, or even paper are. Infinity bows are insanely easy to get for any competent player as well.
I think the problem here is that you're speaking from the mindset of a more hardcore player that grinds and uses mega-farms, while this update targets the majority who are more casual.
The trades are a bit ridiculous, the trading tiers I do like and give them jobs/classes/whatever you want to call them, but the trades are yes a bit all of the place. I assume they will balance it at some point but hopefully it doesn't end up awkward again. For me when rotten flesh or other things were changed in 1.8 for trades I was happier even if it required a bit to get it; the rewards for emeralds was fairly good. So on the trade for currency aspect it was fine I feel. But on the other side of the coin, yes the value for items and their values are still a bit odd to me with emeralds and buying things with them. If I had to say the only system out of Brewing, Enchanting or Trading, which I use neither of anyways XD. Brewing is the best for requirements and tradeoffs I find and it's the easiest to remember (to me at least). While trading is up in the air for values and enchanting I know is good but I never enjoy the benefits of a Sword with +7 damage unenchanted but 9-11 enchanted. Why would I want that when I can get one to say do 20 damage so Zombies, Skeletons, Spiders and Creepers are a piece of cake but I can get a bit of trouble with those above 20 health still. It's probably a me thing but even with mods when I get +16 damage I hate not being able to deal enough damage to remove them when I'd rather 20 damage instead, but I obviously am not asking for higher for medium health level mobs or bosses to be completed killed in 1 hit for fairness at least.
Anyways back to the trading system.
I think that emeralds don't need to be like a higher than Diamonds value of a currency in terms of finding the ore rarely, but the values for trading/buying them is all of the place with middle to high tier values half the time I think, which is probably why the values for trades suck so much. They need to make them more suitable as a currency when trading junk for emeralds like mob drops or fishing junk/treasure maybe. Changing the trades is necessary for 1.14 very much but if they can balance it from say what is grown in the village for a farmer to not have annoying trades and detect if there is say no beetroots growing that you trade beetroots with farmers for a reasonable price of either an emerald for beetroot seeds to start you off with growing them, or to maybe trade carrots & potatoes or either for beetroots and determine the value of beetroot. Since this is vanilla, not mods and making automation of farms a big deal, it will be a starting point for those that want the crops. I think that would make more sense but who knows. It would make things easier and less tedious but worth them having something you don't have and making the reward so much better to use beetroots for what they do have over carrots and potatoes. Or the other way around so that pig breeding isn't behind a wall. Something has to happen somewhere is more what I'm getting at really than the overall concept I'm going for of course. But buying seeds and not having to get a rare one to advance would be less tedious I think. Like a posionuous potato for a beetroot would be less satisfying to move on of course to other crops if you don't have access to them. I don't want to get too deep into RPG territory but I can't half not think it would be going deeper that way really with annoying drop rates more so than Minecraft does it already.
I don't like my idea of paywalls with food at all even though I brought it up in this comment (keeping with it to fit with what I said before, no other reason why I still am) but at least it adds a progression of items to acquire and gives them value rather than making it complicated to tell what anything is worth really for players to go for say 20 coal for 1 emerald, or 17 coal for 1 emerald. Clearly I'm not going for the 20 coal. But a proper conversion system of items for emeralds or quests for villagers's respect/emerald rewards could work. But otherwise a tier system of trades is nice but a tier system of 'value' to crops maybe, to stick with the farmer through this comment would make things interesting. I'm not one for restrictions like this but it could work and make the trades better than all over the places at least. I think Equivalent Exchange the mod did this well. While it was magic focused, everything had a value. Yes people wanted Diamonds but the value of them is achieveable but still requires effort to get them, then Dark Matter for powerful armour, but still requires tedious thinking about how to get the values well enough, do you make a cobblestone generator with cobble being worth 1 but it's spawning enough continuously, or you get creative with making flowers or diamond happen for better values with bonemeal and automation.
Something has to be done about the value of the emeralds or the progression system that trading can be structured by I think. I don't want it that way, but what other way can it be simple, but achieveable, accessible, but a bit of effort. Tedious on other difficulties maybe? Cheap values of emeralds, crops, tools, armour, are achieveable at least this way. Enchants I don't know yet since they are complicated with the amount of levels for any as well as what the randomised table is so who knows with those for trading I guess. But I think a good fix/paywall that's not tedious is fine to start but can be tweaked with difficulty instead of just mob health/door breaking/can wear armour and so on other details now if people want the challenge in other areas.
But this is just my thoughts on it so people that want more out of the game with accessing other areas of it, or considering value for it besides say what it's limited to do could hold some value for the trades and items besides what we have no clue about with half a system that is a mess but wants to do something clearly, and items in/out of reach in varying ways.
Side thoughts not related to it but sort of expands on the 'value' aspect I'm considering. I do get off topic here but it's what I feel with Minecraft today/what I see:
Like the Shulker Box to me is a backpack at endgame compared to mods easy way to get them with leather. But is it a powerful block, I'd say it is. Ender Chests are better/easier to get but Obsidian is mid game for many progressing through the major Minecraft journey/progression to the End dimension endgame besides whatever the player decides to do. I think Ender Chests are balanced enough to be suitable not being important to the major Minecraft goal but assists in the game to make goals achievable/assist the player more. I think players want a value or empowerment focus and it's tough with that not happening with a trading system that needs work and blocks needing to be clear on what purpose they have. The map trades are a bit much but still a good thing from 1.11 or was it 1.13? I don't remember. They need more like that I think instead or a bit more refined than that.
Values are important here and we seem to have issues with them it seems with trading.
@trizzet your signature says your after a 1.13 mod that removes phantoms, try the Rift modloader for 1.13, a phantom removal mod exists.
Whether or not MS/MJ are "out of their minds" depends on what the corporate goals are…
If the goal is to make it prohibitive to carry one's world forward into new versions (because of a prohibitive amount of required rebuilding), they may have not hit a gland slam, but have achieved an admirable degree of success.
If the goals is to split the player community based on possessing a box that will support the much laggier constructions needed to approximate current Fe frams/trading halls/etc… not batting 1.000, but a stong contender for the all-star game.
(If the goal is to try to effectively 'brick' older systems in the hopes of selling replacements and/or forcing users under the Win10 yoke, the effectiveness will likely be unfortunately high (although it will also benefit the various Unix/Linux communities). [On this goal in particular, let us all wish Redmon 'Rots of Ruck'…])
If the goal is to limit auto-farming by ghettoizing the high end technical players (who can/will invest the time needed to build new farms every year when the newest release breaks their old worlds)… not bowling 300, but plenty of turkeys on their card.
If the goal is to balkinize the player community by version played (time constraints making updating a world no longer viable for any but the most casual – or professional – players) and consequently avoiding large servers… clearly MS/Mj is seriously under par (with plenty of eagles)
Assume one or more of the above goals, and MS/Mj is executing a well thought out corporate strategy.
If, however, the continuing corporate goal is to treat MC as a flagship brand of the MS empire that demonstrates a high value placed on customer service/satisfaction and will enhance the popularity (and profitablity) of teh rest of the fleet, then it would appear thay have indeed "lost their marbles"
[Of course this is still in snapshots, so MS/MJ still has the ability to admit the failure of the bad ideas, retract them, and keep their brand loyalty (relatively) intact…
Whether or not they are smart enough to take this course remains at question…]
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
The technical people will find new ways to make farms. DocM has already released a video for an Iron Farm with the new villager mechanics. It's just a matter of time.
They could very easily use this new system to appeal more to casuals without giving us end-game players an effective middle finger by making the villagers keep their trades infinitely refreshing. I don't care about the currency. Anyone with even the most basic large manual farms can get enough carrots and potatoes to deal with some price increases, the main deal-breaker is the twice-daily reset, that's absolute garbage and literally nobody wants it.
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From playing the latest snapshot a bit, jumping directly from 1.13.2 it feels to me like 'old wonky Minecraft is disappearing'.
Partly I think it is because so many changes and new features are happening at once.
But the rest I attribute to the development taking the realism route. It reminds me a bit of TerraFirmaCraft (a light version (or even featherweight)), with sticks from trees, campfire, barrels, specialized furnace (smoker, that's the word) and stonecutter, cats being only cats, more detailed decorative items like lanterns and so forth.
So to address the topic, my guess is that the villager trades will also become more realistic, which means introducing other currency units than emeralds. That would also be one of the simpler ways to balance trades. Part of the reason for different coins and notes IRL after all, is that it's just more practical.
No trade the butcher has is anywhere near even the neighborhood of efficiency that potatoes, carrots, or even paper are. Infinity bows are insanely easy to get for any competent player as well.
I'm not saying it's efficient, I'm saying it's not useless. Not everything that is useful is necessarily efficient.
Getting an infinity bow is time consuming, not a matter of it being easy or hard or the player being competent or incompetent. In a temporary world the player might not want to invest a lot of time into fishing just to get an infinity bow when they can simply trade for arrows from a fletcher. To be clear, fishing to get an infinity bow is simply being time consuming and requiring a lot of patience not something inherently easy or hard to do. If you mean enchanting, that requires enchanting/stripping a lot of bows, XP and lapis.
To reiterate: before you ever have an infinity bow you need to place and break stacks and stacks of gravel for flint just so you can make arrows if you cannot trade for arrows from a fletcher.
To be blunt : having an infinity bow has nothing to do with a player's competence or lack-there-of.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
When you are getting your first batch of enchanted gear, when you're ready to enchant something at the table, if you know what you're doing, you will bring as many possible enchant items as possible to the table, a bow being one of them. Cycling through all of the items will show you what to use your levels on, and an infinity bow is almost always pretty quick to get.
quote=spleen101536294
Fact is, the mega farms are OP.
In your opinion.
There is a class of players that regard the creation of such farms as an end unto itself [eg the gnembon style builds, eking the last possible bit of performance out of a build] and another class (partially overlapping) who regard 'mega farms' as a gateway to the 'survival creative' part of play they most enjoy. [loosely defined as survival with farms eliminating most resource constraints]
The technical people will find new ways to make farms. DocM has already released a video for an Iron Farm with the new villager mechanics. It's just a matter of time.
Which begs the question: why grief the old builds?
By your own argument, this will not stop 'mega farms' being built…
The only guaranteed effect is to make bringing one's world forward into the new edition excessively annoying and time-consuming.
[The greater lagginess of the new mechanics and/or the effective bricking of older computers are not guaranteed as MS/Mj could, hypothetically, release code sufficiently optimized to avoid this… not that the smart money is betting that way….]
quote=DapperDinosaur [emphasis added]
They could very easily use this new system to appeal more to casuals without giving us end-game players an effective middle finger by making the villagers keep their trades infinitely refreshing. I don't care about the currency. Anyone with even the most basic large manual farms can get enough carrots and potatoes to deal with some price increases, the main deal-breaker is the twice-daily reset, that's absolute garbage and literally nobody wants it.
We are in general agreement on almost all these points; from what little I've seen of it, I actually like the reactive pricing (despite the changes to optimal trading strategy it will evoke).
To be fair, the last [emphasised] bit is not true. Sadly there are some players who feel the need to regulate matters to prevent others from having BadWrongFun™; these misguided souls are not content simply not to do that which annoys them, nor to band together to play on servers with local bans on certain techniques [a practice I fully support], rather they wish to change the game so that no one may do those things they decine to do.
[Auto-anything and efficient farms typically being at the top of the list… alongside industrial level villager trading.]
quote=trizzet
I'm not saying it's efficient, I'm saying it's not useless. Not everything that is useful is necessarily efficient.
True at one level, but a thing can be inefficient to the point of uselessness.
Two examples:
IRL it is possible to extract gold from seawater, but the process is so inefficient it would cost several times the value of the gold extracted to do so.
in MC one can fine golden apples by exploring, but same time investment put toward manual farming of oak and hunting pigmen (even the one at a time manual way) would yield several times the return.
Getting an infinity bow is time consuming, not a matter of it being easy or hard or the player being competent or incompetent. In a temporary world the player might not want to invest a lot of time into fishing just to get an infinity bow when they can simply trade for arrows from a fletcher. To be clear, fishing to get an infinity bow is simply being time consuming and requiring a lot of patience not something inherently easy or hard to do. If you mean enchanting, that requires enchanting/stripping a lot of bows, XP and lapis.
First, a distinction needs to be made between the time the game is running and the time the human player is directly interacting…
My experience has been that many players who enjoy the 'end-game' style of play will prioritize farm building (often with an auto-fishery high on the list): for such players, infinity bows are trivial to obtain as they occur while getting other resources. [The iron for the anvil needed to repair one is more frequently the delaying factor early game.]
To reiterate: before you ever have an infinity bow you need to place and break stacks and stacks of gravel for flint just so you can make arrows if you cannot trade for arrows from a fletcher.
Infinity is not that hard to get, and – if one prioritizes farms over monster hunting – a bow is not an early need.
[Probably not typical, but in my current world I have both crafted and purchased exactly zero arrows. I also had a slime farm, villager breeder, ice farm, chickens, cows, pigs, sheep and llamas, crop and tree farms all before I bothered building an auto-fisher. ]
As far as flint goes, I find it an unwanted byproduct of times when I forget to switch to a Silk Touch shovel. [Sadly more frequent than I would like, these occassions are sufficient to keep me in flint&steel]
To be blunt : having an infinity bow has nothing to do with a player's competence or lack-there-of.
In terms of one's 'competence or lack-there-of' in playing MC, the range of playstyles is so great that this is true.
However, having a ready supply of Infinity bows (or any other non-treasure enchantment) may, I think, rightly be seen as directly correlated to the player's facility with the mechanics of enchanting table and anvil.
[Incompetence in a particular area should also not be taken as automatically damning: there are a number of activities (eg golf – at least the kind without windmills) in which I take no pleasure and hence maintain a quite respectably high degree of incompetence.]
§ § § § §
Likely consequences of the changes:
Villager breeders and trading halls will become larger.
Because villagers now appear to have a limited period of useful trading, a trading hall will no longer have A farmer; the style will likely switch to maintaining a number of farmers (each with average trades) as well as a reserve pool of replacements.
Similar logic applies to other villager types. [Mending for 50 emeralds will no longer send a librarian to the Iron farms, at least not until he locks.]
The need for both a larger number of traders and regular replacements will propigate back up the chain resulting in larger breeders to supply both.
Villager breeders and trading halls will become more numerous.
At present, both are obvious cases for shared resources as one person using a trade hall has no impact (assuming said person not so impolite as to leave villagers with locked trades) on the use by others.
The limited trading life of the new villagers will move letting another trade with one's Mending librarian from an effectively zero-cost favor to a very expensive one.
As each player will wish to secure access to various resources considered critical by that player, each will be motivated to build their own, private hall.
Because current information suggests that infinite breeders will be griefed (either entirely or becoming substansively more complex) and because the demand from each player for villagers seems strongly likely to increase, a shift to private (rather than shared) breeders seems likely.
Computational load (and associated lag) will increase.
Unless MS/Mj is considerably more successful in code optimazation in 1.14 than they have been in the last several updates, this appears certain (probably even without factoring in the increases mentioned above).
A new form of griefing will be created.
While it is possible under the current system to lock all trades of a particular villager, this is so rare that doing so intentionally would appear to be prohibitively difficult. [I've had this happen once in my years of play.]
Early information on the 1.14 trading system suggests that accidental compete locking will become fairly commonplace, opening the doors for griefers.
Large SMP servers will become rarer.
As new verisons of the game are introduced that either will not run on some players' equipment and/or require prohibitive amounts of time to rebuild to fix griefed farms, the number of players available in any specific version is likely to drop.
[Mini-game and other swift reset servers are unliky to be effected as anectdotal information suggests these (and Realms) are displroportionately favored by newer players.]
Many mods will not be updated.
Not specific to the villager mechanics, but each major change to the fundamentals of MC physics is likely to require extensive rework of most mods.
The number of people willing to keep reworking every year (essentially 'for free') is likely to be small.
[Note that the inavailability of updated mods will further encourage the balkanization of the player community as playing with one's favorite mod(s) becomes synonomous with playing a specific non-current version.]
Player cooperation (and interaction will) decline.
Both because of the forced division of the community into smaller groups dedicated to a specific version/mod-pack and because of the shift of two major in-game resources (villager breeders and trade halls) from strong candidates for shared/community builds to private ones.
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
I never have and never will use an afk fish farm. I don't need them. Minecraft is a very easy game even on Hard, I don't need an infinity bow that early.
When you are getting your first batch of enchanted gear, when you're ready to enchant something at the table, if you know what you're doing, you will bring as many possible enchant items as possible to the table, a bow being one of them. Cycling through all of the items will show you what to use your levels on, and an infinity bow is almost always pretty quick to get.
You keep telling yourself that.
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Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
I've done it at least 7 times in the last couple years as I've continually made new worlds to keep my game updated. I don't have to tell myself anything, you're the one that doesn't seem to know or understand how easy it is to get everything short of a beacon in this game. You apparently don't even know how to deal with phantoms (to put it in a way where the trigger-happy mods won't fire a cannon at me again, because speaking the truth without sugarcoating is now apparently offensive), so you're obviously a casual player (there's nothing wrong with that), and this discussion is not for you.
I said why I don't use afk fish farms. Not only is it borderline cheating (I consider anything that needs me to tape my controller buttons or anything like that to be going too far), I just don't ever need it.
I've done it at least 7 times in the last couple years as I've continually made new worlds to keep my game updated. I don't have to tell myself anything, you're the one that doesn't seem to know or understand how easy it is to get everything short of a beacon in this game. You apparently don't even know how to deal with phantoms (to put it in a way where the trigger-happy mods won't fire a cannon at me again, because speaking the truth without sugarcoating is now apparently offensive), so you're obviously a casual player (there's nothing wrong with that), and this discussion is not for you.
I said why I don't use afk fish farms. Not only is it borderline cheating (I consider anything that needs me to tape my controller buttons or anything like that to be going too far), I just don't ever need it.
Consider this: I can do X and maybe get what I want while burning XP and lapis or I can do Y and definitely get exactly what I want in multiples without burning lapis and gaining other resources as well. Probably cost me the same amount of XP in the end that I can gain from fishing in the first place, I just invest some time into the venture.
I'm not playing the short game, I'm playing the long game.
Short game: I get an infinity bow
Long game: I end up with 2 Infinity/Power V/Flame/Unbreaking III bows among other items.
You like using mega farms for everything, not everyone does that or has a massive mob grinder on tap for XP. Most of my XP comes from fishing which nets me bows that allow me to build the exact bows I want, not some random bows that I still have to piece together to get what I need, maybe.
You do know you can fish without using an AutoAFK farm, right? I usually do my fishing while watching TV. I agree that AFK farming with, I think, is the iron door setup does cheapen that part of the game, but, unless it's a server, it's everyone's personal choice how to fish. I'm not overly familiar with the setup for an AFK fish farm.
You weren't telling the truth, you were making a personal attack against me because I don't happen to like Phantoms without understanding WHY I don't like Phantoms. There are actually reasons I don't like them that have to do with the spawning/pathing/hitbox/associated game mechanics. I didn't just decide I didn't like Phantoms for no reason, that would be ridiculous. Think about it, if I didn't have anything in my signature, you'd know just as much about my capability: nothing. I just put that there because I really don't like them, and that what I'm intending to do about them...when Forge gets updated. I can be patient, and I was slightly exaggerating about wasting half my time, I don't actually keep track of how much time I spend killing off phantoms every night.
Don't be mean just because someone cannot reach out and slap you over the internet. I forget that too, sometimes.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
But it was the truth, exaggeration or not. You can completely erase phantoms from your world by clicking a bed every few nights, you don't even have to commit to the sleep. It literally couldn't be easier. You don't even have to actually fight them.
Fishing is very boring, hence why you do it while watching tv (which is something much more impractical for everyone on console to do), and is so slow to get the things you actually need that you can almost certainly piece together a bow from enchanting faster. Getting exp in Minecraft is incredibly easy. You can farm nether quartz (did you know nether quartz ore has the same exp value as diamond ore?), kill mobs, mine ores, smelt other ores, trade with villagers, and yes, fish.
But it was the truth, exaggeration or not. You can completely erase phantoms from your world by clicking a bed every few nights, you don't even have to commit to the sleep. It literally couldn't be easier. You don't even have to actually fight them.
Fishing is very boring, hence why you do it while watching tv (which is something much more impractical for everyone on console to do), and is so slow to get the things you actually need that you can almost certainly piece together a bow from enchanting faster. Getting exp in Minecraft is incredibly easy. You can farm nether quartz (did you know nether quartz ore has the same exp value as diamond ore?), kill mobs, mine ores, smelt other ores, trade with villagers, and yes, fish.
Except, for some reason, random is still random with enchanting. You could get infinity on your first try or your hundredth: it's utterly random. I had chests full of enchanted items trying to get an infinity bow before I decided to stop wasting resources on it. Regardless of how easy you believe it to be your experience will not be someone else's experience, your mileage will always vary. For me it has always been a massive resource sink when looking for that last specific item. Fishing has been useful for me. But, do remember, Your Mileage May Vary, and your experience isn't everyone's experience.
The only way to erase phantoms from the game is to mod them out unless you run with cheats enabled in which case you can enable a datapack, but my main world doesn't have cheats enabled, so I get to wait for Forge to update. Otherwise, the second your forget how long it's been, you have them spawning on top of you, plus some people just don't like having their gameplay revolve around a timer or else Phantoms spawn to punish you. I get it, you don't mind running back to a bed every 30 minutes and having your gameplay revolve around that, or keep one on you at all times. Some people have played for years rarely ever caring if they'd ever actually made a bed to begin with. I'm one of those players who never needed a bed around because their gameplay never revolved around needing one, and it really feels forced to have to do so now and it really just feels like the devs are simply punishing players for not constantly using one with the implementation of Phantoms.
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Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
It's like they hate players that want to actually do end-game level setups. Supply and demand is a massive mistake, and villagers only being able to restock twice per day is an even more massive one.
Might as well never bother with any non-librarian villagers again with these horrible changes. They're gutting trading into the ground. Those of us with big auto-farms and villager trading centers are going to be emptying out our stocks as quickly as we can before all of these systems become effectively useless. Then there's the iron golem farms being decimated, the villagers having to be next to their workbenches to restock, and no other changes to trades or new good trades (except the globe pattern and everything the Mason and Wanderer sell). All of the trades that were garbage before will still be garbage, the prices haven't been changed, and certain villagers will continue to be completely and utterly worthless (leatherworker, butcher, fletcher).
Is Mojang actually aware of what the real problems with trading are that need updating? From the way things have been going so far, it certainly seems like they aren't. The structure changes to villages are great, but aside from that, the focal point of the entire update is looking quite terrible, it's just a nerftrain smashing all of our farms and trade systems into paste.
It's not that they hate them, they see them as a problem that needs to be slowed down and/or stopped, and the only way they know of to stop them is to make the trading system very time consuming and tedious. Or, as you put it, run them over with a gigantic nerf train.
All this actually does is create a different problem which will be villages that are turned into treadmills where villagers are no longer kept around forever and are killed off as soon as they are no longer viable as needed/wanted trades end up locked constantly.
To be fair, butchers are useful if you have chickens and pigs to get emeralds and fletchers are very useful if you don't have an infinity bow because having to place and break stacks and stacks and stacks of gravel to get flint is very time consuming.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
No trade the butcher has is anywhere near even the neighborhood of efficiency that potatoes, carrots, or even paper are. Infinity bows are insanely easy to get for any competent player as well.
I think the problem here is that you're speaking from the mindset of a more hardcore player that grinds and uses mega-farms, while this update targets the majority who are more casual.
The trades are a bit ridiculous, the trading tiers I do like and give them jobs/classes/whatever you want to call them, but the trades are yes a bit all of the place. I assume they will balance it at some point but hopefully it doesn't end up awkward again. For me when rotten flesh or other things were changed in 1.8 for trades I was happier even if it required a bit to get it; the rewards for emeralds was fairly good. So on the trade for currency aspect it was fine I feel. But on the other side of the coin, yes the value for items and their values are still a bit odd to me with emeralds and buying things with them. If I had to say the only system out of Brewing, Enchanting or Trading, which I use neither of anyways XD. Brewing is the best for requirements and tradeoffs I find and it's the easiest to remember (to me at least). While trading is up in the air for values and enchanting I know is good but I never enjoy the benefits of a Sword with +7 damage unenchanted but 9-11 enchanted. Why would I want that when I can get one to say do 20 damage so Zombies, Skeletons, Spiders and Creepers are a piece of cake but I can get a bit of trouble with those above 20 health still. It's probably a me thing but even with mods when I get +16 damage I hate not being able to deal enough damage to remove them when I'd rather 20 damage instead, but I obviously am not asking for higher for medium health level mobs or bosses to be completed killed in 1 hit for fairness at least.
Anyways back to the trading system.
I think that emeralds don't need to be like a higher than Diamonds value of a currency in terms of finding the ore rarely, but the values for trading/buying them is all of the place with middle to high tier values half the time I think, which is probably why the values for trades suck so much. They need to make them more suitable as a currency when trading junk for emeralds like mob drops or fishing junk/treasure maybe. Changing the trades is necessary for 1.14 very much but if they can balance it from say what is grown in the village for a farmer to not have annoying trades and detect if there is say no beetroots growing that you trade beetroots with farmers for a reasonable price of either an emerald for beetroot seeds to start you off with growing them, or to maybe trade carrots & potatoes or either for beetroots and determine the value of beetroot. Since this is vanilla, not mods and making automation of farms a big deal, it will be a starting point for those that want the crops. I think that would make more sense but who knows. It would make things easier and less tedious but worth them having something you don't have and making the reward so much better to use beetroots for what they do have over carrots and potatoes. Or the other way around so that pig breeding isn't behind a wall. Something has to happen somewhere is more what I'm getting at really than the overall concept I'm going for of course. But buying seeds and not having to get a rare one to advance would be less tedious I think. Like a posionuous potato for a beetroot would be less satisfying to move on of course to other crops if you don't have access to them. I don't want to get too deep into RPG territory but I can't half not think it would be going deeper that way really with annoying drop rates more so than Minecraft does it already.
I don't like my idea of paywalls with food at all even though I brought it up in this comment (keeping with it to fit with what I said before, no other reason why I still am) but at least it adds a progression of items to acquire and gives them value rather than making it complicated to tell what anything is worth really for players to go for say 20 coal for 1 emerald, or 17 coal for 1 emerald. Clearly I'm not going for the 20 coal. But a proper conversion system of items for emeralds or quests for villagers's respect/emerald rewards could work. But otherwise a tier system of trades is nice but a tier system of 'value' to crops maybe, to stick with the farmer through this comment would make things interesting. I'm not one for restrictions like this but it could work and make the trades better than all over the places at least. I think Equivalent Exchange the mod did this well. While it was magic focused, everything had a value. Yes people wanted Diamonds but the value of them is achieveable but still requires effort to get them, then Dark Matter for powerful armour, but still requires tedious thinking about how to get the values well enough, do you make a cobblestone generator with cobble being worth 1 but it's spawning enough continuously, or you get creative with making flowers or diamond happen for better values with bonemeal and automation.
Something has to be done about the value of the emeralds or the progression system that trading can be structured by I think. I don't want it that way, but what other way can it be simple, but achieveable, accessible, but a bit of effort. Tedious on other difficulties maybe? Cheap values of emeralds, crops, tools, armour, are achieveable at least this way. Enchants I don't know yet since they are complicated with the amount of levels for any as well as what the randomised table is so who knows with those for trading I guess. But I think a good fix/paywall that's not tedious is fine to start but can be tweaked with difficulty instead of just mob health/door breaking/can wear armour and so on other details now if people want the challenge in other areas.
But this is just my thoughts on it so people that want more out of the game with accessing other areas of it, or considering value for it besides say what it's limited to do could hold some value for the trades and items besides what we have no clue about with half a system that is a mess but wants to do something clearly, and items in/out of reach in varying ways.
Side thoughts not related to it but sort of expands on the 'value' aspect I'm considering. I do get off topic here but it's what I feel with Minecraft today/what I see:
Like the Shulker Box to me is a backpack at endgame compared to mods easy way to get them with leather. But is it a powerful block, I'd say it is. Ender Chests are better/easier to get but Obsidian is mid game for many progressing through the major Minecraft journey/progression to the End dimension endgame besides whatever the player decides to do. I think Ender Chests are balanced enough to be suitable not being important to the major Minecraft goal but assists in the game to make goals achievable/assist the player more. I think players want a value or empowerment focus and it's tough with that not happening with a trading system that needs work and blocks needing to be clear on what purpose they have. The map trades are a bit much but still a good thing from 1.11 or was it 1.13? I don't remember. They need more like that I think instead or a bit more refined than that.
Values are important here and we seem to have issues with them it seems with trading.
@trizzet your signature says your after a 1.13 mod that removes phantoms, try the Rift modloader for 1.13, a phantom removal mod exists.
https://minecraft.curseforge.com/projects/ghost-buster
Niche Community Content Finder, Youtuber, Modpack/Map Maker, Duck
Forum Thread Maintainer for APortingCore, Liteloader Download HUB, Asphodel Meadows, Fabric Project, Legacy Fabric/Cursed Fabric, Power API, Rift/Fabric/Forge 1.13 to 1.17.
Wikis I Maintain: https://modwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/User:SuntannedDuck2
Whether or not MS/MJ are "out of their minds" depends on what the corporate goals are…
If the goal is to make it prohibitive to carry one's world forward into new versions (because of a prohibitive amount of required rebuilding), they may have not hit a gland slam, but have achieved an admirable degree of success.
If the goals is to split the player community based on possessing a box that will support the much laggier constructions needed to approximate current Fe frams/trading halls/etc… not batting 1.000, but a stong contender for the all-star game.
(If the goal is to try to effectively 'brick' older systems in the hopes of selling replacements and/or forcing users under the Win10 yoke, the effectiveness will likely be unfortunately high (although it will also benefit the various Unix/Linux communities). [On this goal in particular, let us all wish Redmon 'Rots of Ruck'…])
If the goal is to limit auto-farming by ghettoizing the high end technical players (who can/will invest the time needed to build new farms every year when the newest release breaks their old worlds)… not bowling 300, but plenty of turkeys on their card.
If the goal is to balkinize the player community by version played (time constraints making updating a world no longer viable for any but the most casual – or professional – players) and consequently avoiding large servers… clearly MS/Mj is seriously under par (with plenty of eagles)
Assume one or more of the above goals, and MS/Mj is executing a well thought out corporate strategy.
If, however, the continuing corporate goal is to treat MC as a flagship brand of the MS empire that demonstrates a high value placed on customer service/satisfaction and will enhance the popularity (and profitablity) of teh rest of the fleet, then it would appear thay have indeed "lost their marbles"
[Of course this is still in snapshots, so MS/MJ still has the ability to admit the failure of the bad ideas, retract them, and keep their brand loyalty (relatively) intact…
Whether or not they are smart enough to take this course remains at question…]
Fact is, the mega farms are OP.
The technical people will find new ways to make farms. DocM has already released a video for an Iron Farm with the new villager mechanics. It's just a matter of time.
They could very easily use this new system to appeal more to casuals without giving us end-game players an effective middle finger by making the villagers keep their trades infinitely refreshing. I don't care about the currency. Anyone with even the most basic large manual farms can get enough carrots and potatoes to deal with some price increases, the main deal-breaker is the twice-daily reset, that's absolute garbage and literally nobody wants it.
From playing the latest snapshot a bit, jumping directly from 1.13.2 it feels to me like 'old wonky Minecraft is disappearing'.
Partly I think it is because so many changes and new features are happening at once.
But the rest I attribute to the development taking the realism route. It reminds me a bit of TerraFirmaCraft (a light version (or even featherweight)), with sticks from trees, campfire, barrels, specialized furnace (smoker, that's the word) and stonecutter, cats being only cats, more detailed decorative items like lanterns and so forth.
So to address the topic, my guess is that the villager trades will also become more realistic, which means introducing other currency units than emeralds. That would also be one of the simpler ways to balance trades. Part of the reason for different coins and notes IRL after all, is that it's just more practical.
PMC's Pumpkin Carving Solo Contest Entry
I'm not saying it's efficient, I'm saying it's not useless. Not everything that is useful is necessarily efficient.
Getting an infinity bow is time consuming, not a matter of it being easy or hard or the player being competent or incompetent. In a temporary world the player might not want to invest a lot of time into fishing just to get an infinity bow when they can simply trade for arrows from a fletcher. To be clear, fishing to get an infinity bow is simply being time consuming and requiring a lot of patience not something inherently easy or hard to do. If you mean enchanting, that requires enchanting/stripping a lot of bows, XP and lapis.
To reiterate: before you ever have an infinity bow you need to place and break stacks and stacks of gravel for flint just so you can make arrows if you cannot trade for arrows from a fletcher.
To be blunt : having an infinity bow has nothing to do with a player's competence or lack-there-of.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
When you are getting your first batch of enchanted gear, when you're ready to enchant something at the table, if you know what you're doing, you will bring as many possible enchant items as possible to the table, a bow being one of them. Cycling through all of the items will show you what to use your levels on, and an infinity bow is almost always pretty quick to get.
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quote=spleen101536294
Fact is, the mega farms are OP.
In your opinion.
There is a class of players that regard the creation of such farms as an end unto itself [eg the gnembon style builds, eking the last possible bit of performance out of a build] and another class (partially overlapping) who regard 'mega farms' as a gateway to the 'survival creative' part of play they most enjoy. [loosely defined as survival with farms eliminating most resource constraints]
The technical people will find new ways to make farms. DocM has already released a video for an Iron Farm with the new villager mechanics. It's just a matter of time.
Which begs the question: why grief the old builds?
By your own argument, this will not stop 'mega farms' being built…
The only guaranteed effect is to make bringing one's world forward into the new edition excessively annoying and time-consuming.
[The greater lagginess of the new mechanics and/or the effective bricking of older computers are not guaranteed as MS/Mj could, hypothetically, release code sufficiently optimized to avoid this… not that the smart money is betting that way….]
quote=DapperDinosaur [emphasis added]
They could very easily use this new system to appeal more to casuals without giving us end-game players an effective middle finger by making the villagers keep their trades infinitely refreshing. I don't care about the currency. Anyone with even the most basic large manual farms can get enough carrots and potatoes to deal with some price increases, the main deal-breaker is the twice-daily reset, that's absolute garbage and literally nobody wants it.
We are in general agreement on almost all these points; from what little I've seen of it, I actually like the reactive pricing (despite the changes to optimal trading strategy it will evoke).
To be fair, the last [emphasised] bit is not true. Sadly there are some players who feel the need to regulate matters to prevent others from having BadWrongFun™; these misguided souls are not content simply not to do that which annoys them, nor to band together to play on servers with local bans on certain techniques [a practice I fully support], rather they wish to change the game so that no one may do those things they decine to do.
[Auto-anything and efficient farms typically being at the top of the list… alongside industrial level villager trading.]
quote=trizzet
I'm not saying it's efficient, I'm saying it's not useless. Not everything that is useful is necessarily efficient.
True at one level, but a thing can be inefficient to the point of uselessness.
Two examples:
IRL it is possible to extract gold from seawater, but the process is so inefficient it would cost several times the value of the gold extracted to do so.
in MC one can fine golden apples by exploring, but same time investment put toward manual farming of oak and hunting pigmen (even the one at a time manual way) would yield several times the return.
Getting an infinity bow is time consuming, not a matter of it being easy or hard or the player being competent or incompetent. In a temporary world the player might not want to invest a lot of time into fishing just to get an infinity bow when they can simply trade for arrows from a fletcher. To be clear, fishing to get an infinity bow is simply being time consuming and requiring a lot of patience not something inherently easy or hard to do. If you mean enchanting, that requires enchanting/stripping a lot of bows, XP and lapis.
First, a distinction needs to be made between the time the game is running and the time the human player is directly interacting…
My experience has been that many players who enjoy the 'end-game' style of play will prioritize farm building (often with an auto-fishery high on the list): for such players, infinity bows are trivial to obtain as they occur while getting other resources. [The iron for the anvil needed to repair one is more frequently the delaying factor early game.]
To reiterate: before you ever have an infinity bow you need to place and break stacks and stacks of gravel for flint just so you can make arrows if you cannot trade for arrows from a fletcher.
Infinity is not that hard to get, and – if one prioritizes farms over monster hunting – a bow is not an early need.
[Probably not typical, but in my current world I have both crafted and purchased exactly zero arrows. I also had a slime farm, villager breeder, ice farm, chickens, cows, pigs, sheep and llamas, crop and tree farms all before I bothered building an auto-fisher. ]
As far as flint goes, I find it an unwanted byproduct of times when I forget to switch to a Silk Touch shovel. [Sadly more frequent than I would like, these occassions are sufficient to keep me in flint&steel]
To be blunt : having an infinity bow has nothing to do with a player's competence or lack-there-of.
In terms of one's 'competence or lack-there-of' in playing MC, the range of playstyles is so great that this is true.
However, having a ready supply of Infinity bows (or any other non-treasure enchantment) may, I think, rightly be seen as directly correlated to the player's facility with the mechanics of enchanting table and anvil.
[Incompetence in a particular area should also not be taken as automatically damning: there are a number of activities (eg golf – at least the kind without windmills) in which I take no pleasure and hence maintain a quite respectably high degree of incompetence.]
Likely consequences of the changes:
Villager breeders and trading halls will become larger.
Because villagers now appear to have a limited period of useful trading, a trading hall will no longer have A farmer; the style will likely switch to maintaining a number of farmers (each with average trades) as well as a reserve pool of replacements.
Similar logic applies to other villager types. [Mending for 50 emeralds will no longer send a librarian to the Iron farms, at least not until he locks.]
The need for both a larger number of traders and regular replacements will propigate back up the chain resulting in larger breeders to supply both.
Villager breeders and trading halls will become more numerous.
At present, both are obvious cases for shared resources as one person using a trade hall has no impact (assuming said person not so impolite as to leave villagers with locked trades) on the use by others.
The limited trading life of the new villagers will move letting another trade with one's Mending librarian from an effectively zero-cost favor to a very expensive one.
As each player will wish to secure access to various resources considered critical by that player, each will be motivated to build their own, private hall.
Because current information suggests that infinite breeders will be griefed (either entirely or becoming substansively more complex) and because the demand from each player for villagers seems strongly likely to increase, a shift to private (rather than shared) breeders seems likely.
Computational load (and associated lag) will increase.
Unless MS/Mj is considerably more successful in code optimazation in 1.14 than they have been in the last several updates, this appears certain (probably even without factoring in the increases mentioned above).
A new form of griefing will be created.
While it is possible under the current system to lock all trades of a particular villager, this is so rare that doing so intentionally would appear to be prohibitively difficult. [I've had this happen once in my years of play.]
Early information on the 1.14 trading system suggests that accidental compete locking will become fairly commonplace, opening the doors for griefers.
Large SMP servers will become rarer.
As new verisons of the game are introduced that either will not run on some players' equipment and/or require prohibitive amounts of time to rebuild to fix griefed farms, the number of players available in any specific version is likely to drop.
[Mini-game and other swift reset servers are unliky to be effected as anectdotal information suggests these (and Realms) are displroportionately favored by newer players.]
Many mods will not be updated.
Not specific to the villager mechanics, but each major change to the fundamentals of MC physics is likely to require extensive rework of most mods.
The number of people willing to keep reworking every year (essentially 'for free') is likely to be small.
[Note that the inavailability of updated mods will further encourage the balkanization of the player community as playing with one's favorite mod(s) becomes synonomous with playing a specific non-current version.]
Player cooperation (and interaction will) decline.
Both because of the forced division of the community into smaller groups dedicated to a specific version/mod-pack and because of the shift of two major in-game resources (villager breeders and trade halls) from strong candidates for shared/community builds to private ones.
Just use an afk fish farm on the first day of your world, and you’ll have an infinity biw in the first realworld day
I never have and never will use an afk fish farm. I don't need them. Minecraft is a very easy game even on Hard, I don't need an infinity bow that early.
Why won’t you use a fish farm?
You keep telling yourself that.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
I've done it at least 7 times in the last couple years as I've continually made new worlds to keep my game updated. I don't have to tell myself anything, you're the one that doesn't seem to know or understand how easy it is to get everything short of a beacon in this game. You apparently don't even know how to deal with phantoms (to put it in a way where the trigger-happy mods won't fire a cannon at me again, because speaking the truth without sugarcoating is now apparently offensive), so you're obviously a casual player (there's nothing wrong with that), and this discussion is not for you.
I said why I don't use afk fish farms. Not only is it borderline cheating (I consider anything that needs me to tape my controller buttons or anything like that to be going too far), I just don't ever need it.
Consider this: I can do X and maybe get what I want while burning XP and lapis or I can do Y and definitely get exactly what I want in multiples without burning lapis and gaining other resources as well. Probably cost me the same amount of XP in the end that I can gain from fishing in the first place, I just invest some time into the venture.
I'm not playing the short game, I'm playing the long game.
Short game: I get an infinity bow
Long game: I end up with 2 Infinity/Power V/Flame/Unbreaking III bows among other items.
You like using mega farms for everything, not everyone does that or has a massive mob grinder on tap for XP. Most of my XP comes from fishing which nets me bows that allow me to build the exact bows I want, not some random bows that I still have to piece together to get what I need, maybe.
You do know you can fish without using an AutoAFK farm, right? I usually do my fishing while watching TV. I agree that AFK farming with, I think, is the iron door setup does cheapen that part of the game, but, unless it's a server, it's everyone's personal choice how to fish. I'm not overly familiar with the setup for an AFK fish farm.
You weren't telling the truth, you were making a personal attack against me because I don't happen to like Phantoms without understanding WHY I don't like Phantoms. There are actually reasons I don't like them that have to do with the spawning/pathing/hitbox/associated game mechanics. I didn't just decide I didn't like Phantoms for no reason, that would be ridiculous. Think about it, if I didn't have anything in my signature, you'd know just as much about my capability: nothing. I just put that there because I really don't like them, and that what I'm intending to do about them...when Forge gets updated. I can be patient, and I was slightly exaggerating about wasting half my time, I don't actually keep track of how much time I spend killing off phantoms every night.
Don't be mean just because someone cannot reach out and slap you over the internet. I forget that too, sometimes.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
But it was the truth, exaggeration or not. You can completely erase phantoms from your world by clicking a bed every few nights, you don't even have to commit to the sleep. It literally couldn't be easier. You don't even have to actually fight them.
Fishing is very boring, hence why you do it while watching tv (which is something much more impractical for everyone on console to do), and is so slow to get the things you actually need that you can almost certainly piece together a bow from enchanting faster. Getting exp in Minecraft is incredibly easy. You can farm nether quartz (did you know nether quartz ore has the same exp value as diamond ore?), kill mobs, mine ores, smelt other ores, trade with villagers, and yes, fish.
Except, for some reason, random is still random with enchanting. You could get infinity on your first try or your hundredth: it's utterly random. I had chests full of enchanted items trying to get an infinity bow before I decided to stop wasting resources on it. Regardless of how easy you believe it to be your experience will not be someone else's experience, your mileage will always vary. For me it has always been a massive resource sink when looking for that last specific item. Fishing has been useful for me. But, do remember, Your Mileage May Vary, and your experience isn't everyone's experience.
The only way to erase phantoms from the game is to mod them out unless you run with cheats enabled in which case you can enable a datapack, but my main world doesn't have cheats enabled, so I get to wait for Forge to update. Otherwise, the second your forget how long it's been, you have them spawning on top of you, plus some people just don't like having their gameplay revolve around a timer or else Phantoms spawn to punish you. I get it, you don't mind running back to a bed every 30 minutes and having your gameplay revolve around that, or keep one on you at all times. Some people have played for years rarely ever caring if they'd ever actually made a bed to begin with. I'm one of those players who never needed a bed around because their gameplay never revolved around needing one, and it really feels forced to have to do so now and it really just feels like the devs are simply punishing players for not constantly using one with the implementation of Phantoms.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?