Although I do agree with the posters above mine regarding an open discussion I believe they're overlooking something as well... The OP is also entitled to his opinion and if he doesn't like it then I think he has every right to... you know: actually discuss and put his negative opinion against others. That's usually how a discussion goes
The problem arises when the OP tells people what they think and makes broad generalizations. i.e. "Nobody cares about underwater build."
At any rate, I really feel for you and your Command Block misadventures. I know so many like you that have had huge contraptions break, and then have to be rebuilt. Props for relearning it man.
How does making the game more realistic a good thing? Realism < Gameplay. Realism + Gameplay = Better Gameplay
And can you explain on how breaking countless farms opened up more possibilities? To fix the farms they did.
Except that no one cares about underwater build. True, you don't care, and I may not care, but that doesn't mean NOBODY cares. Many people try to drain out ocean monuments and then kill the guardians easily. Why? I don't know. But they do it.
They are breaking water and ruining the game just so a developer can put shipwrecks underwater without airblocks. Also so that builders can put other stuff down there too.
Quasi-connectivity is also an "irritating game design" and the community finds a way to use it. That is more than an irritating game design. It is a glitch that should have been completely reemoved by now. Finding a way to use it is using redstone in a way that it was NEVER meant to be used.
There are so many irritating game design in Minecraft but guess what? it what makes Minecraft a very unique game. No. It is what makes Minecraft a (somewhat) UNSTABLE game. These glitches and design flaws need to be patched.
Life is change. It isn't *JUST* developers that want to build underwater. Mumbo Jumbo on Hermitcraft Season 5 is making an underwater base with an aquarium. Mumbo Jumbo does giant and ridiculous projects for no reason at all. He makes so many videos and builds so much stuff, he can be considered a developer. What he is NOT is the average player. The average player is the majority of the Minecraft population. In terms of the average player, only a few want to build underwater. That in no way means that NOBODY wants to, though.
It is awkward and painful to watch at times because of the current state of Minecraft design for underwater builds. I'll give you that one. It is kind of awkward.
And yet, he's doing it, he's having fun, Fun? FUN?! FUN?! FUN?! What is fun about having to place millions of sea lanterns at the bottom of the sea for hours on end? What is fun about getting and placing millions of sponges to drain out a spot for you to breath? What is fun about building in the first place? It's just work. Placing block by block... Building piece by piece... There is nothing fun about it.
AND Mumbo Jumbo is LATE to that game. What does LATE mean (I suspect it is not literal)?
Others have built underwater bases before in earlier Hermitcraft seasons. I've played with it a bit, and I'm interested in making a base out of an Underwater Monument. Those are supposed to be excellent XP farms, done correctly. Better than even Enderman farms. Again, farms are terrible.
Mojang looks to bring life and exploration to the Oceans. I am among a very large number of "nobodies" looking to forward to these changes. True.
Answers in red.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Minecraft 2.0
Minecraft 1.VR-Pre1
Snapshot 15w14a
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
At the moment, building underwater is hard and is boring, and there isn't even much to look at when you are at the sea floor. Since the new update will change both of these things, more people will most likely have a desire to build underwater. Also, if people don't want to build underwater at all, why do the "Underwater House" tutorials get so many views?
I think that's going to be interesting, people are just lazy sometimes. It was the same when PvP changed... And I honestly prefer how it is now. It's more "real" in some way, and I believe water needs to get more real too.
Because there were two threads in Discussion about new water physics and one here in Recent Updates and Snapshots, I merged them all into a single thread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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"Mumbo Jumbo does giant and ridiculous projects for no reason at all." Actually, the 'why' isn't relevant to this discussion, but he does push the boundaries. And at the boundaries, we find out what makes or breaks Minecraft gameplay. I started watching his Hermitcraft series because I wanted to learn technical solutions to various problems so I can use them in my own builds. And I find his videos entertaining so I *keep* watching, but that's beside the point for this thread. I don't know about the "average" player. I know what I want to do, and what I want are two things: 1) cool stuff to explore and do in that vast, empty, lifeless ocean, which these changes propose to make possible and 2) I want to build my own cool stuff and have these new water effects be a part of that. My wife does a great deal of fishing. I'd love to build an aquarium for her. How do we go about that?
"Fun? FUN?! FUN?! FUN?!" Yeah, I wouldn't place sea lanterns all over the ocean floor, or maybe I would if I had something to show. Not particularly relevant for this thread, in my opinion. Mumbo has had to deal with specific problems that EVERY player building underwater will encounter regardless of scale. Mumbo is pushing the boundaries of scope and scale, regardless of "fun" to do or "fun" to watch. Edge cases prove issues with technique and serve as use cases. And as far as the "fun" aspect... when Mumbo flies up in his Elytra and looks back on it, he's thrilled and excited to see what he's accomplished. I get that, because I get the same thing out of my builds. If I wasn't getting something out of it, I wouldn't be doing it. And for the purpose of this thread, I'd *really* like to get more out of underwater building than what current tech allows for, especially in the way of flora and fauna that exist underwater as well as dealing with "water bubbles" in non-solid blocks.
Mumbo: "I'm probably going to cry because underwater builds are horrible."
"What does LATE mean?"
I can't remember what episode, I quickly scanned through Episode 0 for it, but Mumbo mentioned how EVERYONE seemed to have an underwater base in one or another earlier season. He decided it was time for him to finally do one. I downloaded Hermitcraft 4, and I did see some spectacular underwater builds there. By "late" I simply meant that this is his first underwater base, where other Hermits have already done one by this time and have moved on.
"Farms are terrible." That would be a matter of opinion depending upon one's circumstances and interests in building. My wife hated the idea of building farms. She didn't want me to take away the "fun" of actually going out to mine the ore, harvesting the crops, getting the XP... it didn't take her long before, "how soon can we build an iron farm? How long before that Skele farm is up? Is the pumpkin/ melon farm ready yet?" It didn't take her long to decide some of the tasks were better automated or made more simple to allow both of us to do other things, and so it is.
Along with the OP, I am concerned about water "pipes" and moving both items and entities both up and over using water streams. As long as we have those covered, I think we'll be ok. Bedrock currently has horrible dropper elevators. I seriously hope they cook up a better fix for item elevators like Java currently has. Official Vanilla "pipes" would go a long way and solve much of the angst over water mechanics.
Official Vanilla "pipes" would go a long way and solve much of the angst over water mechanics.
I don't think so... I use pipes in my modded world and well... It really takes the vanilla feel away. It makes it too simple. I like it that in vanilla you need to use hoppers, water etc. In vanilla you can do everything, but it's not so simple, that's what I like about vanilla. Ofc with this style, performance becomes an issue with large scale builds. But i think pipes and other tech stuff is better left for the tech-mod community, who use them in massive/complex builds. It would make items sorters and basic farms way too simple for regular players. Maybe a simple straight line pipe system to reduce the performance issue of hoppers cheking for items every tick would be good, but sorting pipes, round-robin pipes etc is something I would rather not see in vanilla.
Because there were two threads in Discussion about new water physics and one here in Recent Updates and Snapshots, I merged them all into a single thread.
Unfortunately this also invalidated the poll. The question was two-fold where the liking of the new mechanic was basically the primary one, not the question about whether players have build something underwater. Might have been easier to just lock and/or remove the poll thread, this is kind of messy right now.
How does making the game more realistic a good thing? Realism < Gameplay. And can you explain on how breaking countless farms opened up more possibilities? This feature limits them.
Mob farms are structures abusing the game's design flaws for free items. Why should they be possible
Except that no one cares about underwater build. They are breaking water and ruining the game just so a developer can put shipwrecks underwater without airblocks.
So YOU are telling ME what I do or do not care about? I care about underwater builds.
Quasi-connectivity is also an "irritating game design" and the community finds a way to use it. There are so many irritating game design in Minecraft but guess what? it what makes Minecraft a very unique game.
"Quasi-connectivity is also an "irritating game design""
If it is irritating game design, it should be removed. Even if people find a way to use it
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the dragon/egg that is on top to help me raise my dragons
I don't think so... I use pipes in my modded world and well... It really takes the vanilla feel away. It makes it too simple. I like it that in vanilla you need to use hoppers, water etc. In vanilla you can do everything, but it's not so simple, that's what I like about vanilla. Ofc with this style, performance becomes an issue with large scale builds. But i think pipes and other tech stuff is better left for the tech-mod community, who use them in massive/complex builds. It would make items sorters and basic farms way too simple for regular players. Maybe a simple straight line pipe system to reduce the performance issue of hoppers cheking for items every tick would be good, but sorting pipes, round-robin pipes etc is something I would rather not see in vanilla.
I understand your opinion, and to some extent, I agree with you. I do make Redstone filters on things as a matter-of-course, though they are bulky and not as "nice" as glass "pipes" with http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook/Pipes. I'm not suggesting "pipes" be quite that technical. What I mainly hope for is that if water elevators for entities like villagers or ice-water pipes for items no longer work, I'd like for us to have some suitable replacement that still fits "Minecraft", but allows us to continue to create things like water elevators and ice-water pipes without the current problems and unintended consequences associated with those means of transport using water.
Mob farms are structures abusing the game's design flaws for free items. Why should they be possible
So YOU are telling ME what I do or do not care about? I care about underwater builds.
So... when *I* enjoy building creative means to avoid tedious but necessary activities in Minecraft, it's ok for you to tell ME what I shouldn't care about, but when someone tells YOU that you shouldn't care about things YOU enjoy, you won't allow that.
Mob farms are structures abusing the game's design flaws for free items. Why should they be possible
Couldn't agree less. Automatic farms is what this game is all about for me. When I play survival I start as guy with nothing and have to do a lot of manual work. I put in this work to make my future easier, automate everything, so I can focus on building instead of tedious farming. Manual item sorting is like the most tedious thing, but unavoidable for a long period when you start to play. Making an automatic item sorter is more like a goal of the game rather than a design flaw if you ask me Just like with any farm. You need to collect lots of items, understand game mechanics, do a lot of manual work to even get your farm going. And once you do you no longer have to worry about that single resource and can start on a new project. Sounds like fair game to me. Keeping your farms manual is like refusing to use a pickaxe better than wood imo.
Couldn't agree less. Automatic farms is what this game is all about for me. When I play survival I start as guy with nothing and have to do a lot of manual work. I put in this work to make my future easier, automate everything, so I can focus on building instead of tedious farming. Manual item sorting is like the most tedious thing, but unavoidable for a long period when you start to play. Making an automatic item sorter is more like a goal of the game rather than a design flaw if you ask me Just like with any farm. You need to collect lots of items, understand game mechanics, do a lot of manual work to even get your farm going. And once you do you no longer have to worry about that single resource and can start on a new project. Sounds like fair game to me. Keeping your farms manual is like refusing to use a pickaxe better than wood imo.
I think item sorters and automatic farms are okay, as long as they don't abuse the game's design flaws, one of which is the bad liquid physics. An automated mob farm is okay in my opinion, but you'll have to find something more clever than floating lava above signs with hoppers, because, in my opinion, you are then exploiting the bad physics. There are loads of other options, like cacti, arrows, potions, or suffocating or drowning them, and many more.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the dragon/egg that is on top to help me raise my dragons
Cactoni, lavato... I'm the one who gets to decide what normal, as intended working game physics suits my purpose as long as I don't violate server rules. Fortunately for me, I make the rules on my server. When my wife let's me.
If signs no longer hold up lava, I will use what works as intended game physics.
After seeing the Minecon earth livestream. Something has bothered me. The new water physics. In case you didn't know, this means that water will now run through fences and other blocks that doesn't fill the "gap". With this water physics, it will break so many mob farms and other things.
Let me know what are your thoughts
This post is redundant. Please read post #1. Thanks.
I always thought it was quite odd that water could be blocked by objects which had "holes" in them or around them, such as signs and fences. I think it makes Minecraft more believable if this is corrected. And I'm sure that innovative builders will still come up with ways to make their automated machinery work.
Couldn't agree less. Automatic farms is what this game is all about for me. When I play survival I start as guy with nothing and have to do a lot of manual work. How it was meant to be.
I put in this work to make my future easier, automate everything, so I can focus on building instead of tedious farming. If you think that farming is tedious, don't do it. Kill mobs and get food from them.
Manual item sorting is like the most tedious thing, but unavoidable for a long period when you start to play. If Games were completely void of tedious things, they would not be very much in depth at all. Once you build the farms, you won't be able to do much else. They would be like tycoon games. Once you're done, you just sit there and watch your money grow.
Making an automatic item sorter is more like a goal of the game rather than a design flaw if you ask me Item sorting should not be a goal, but they are not a design flaw either. They use hoppers, designed specifically for moving/sorting items.
Just like with any farm. That's where you're wrong. This thread alone proves farms involving water movement design flaws. Why? because they are fixing it. You don't fix something that isn't broken.
You need to collect lots of items, understand game mechanics, do a lot of manual work to even get your farm going. But you don't do anything once you are done. Farms create an end to minecraft, a game that was specifically designed not to have one.
And once you do you no longer have to worry about that single resource and can start on a new project. What if you run out of projects? You do nothing.m That's my point.
Sounds like fair game to me. It might be fair in single player, but in multiplayer it is quite unfair. The entire thing is just a race for materials. Anybodycan sabotage anybody else and essentially fling them right back to the start.; Also, many farms use glitches in the game, which adds a measure of unfairness to farming. Keeping your farms manual is like refusing to use a pickaxe better than wood imo. Does using a pickaxe better that wood completely end the game for you? NO.
Answers in red.
This reply covers one of the big reasons why I hate farms. One that hasn't been shown much before on this forum. Another reason (which has been shown on this forum) is the part about using glitches in the game that should really be patched. Another reason is the fact that it gives you essentially unlimited materials, which can be considered OP in any game.
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
Actually I've been wanting an underwater base for some time, I have met others who had made Underwater bases, it's not for everyone but there are people that want to build underwater. Even if you don't want to build under water even beach front features will be better when you have smaller than full blocks and don't want weird air pockets, even stuff like fountains will be better.
Yeah, the discussion wandered away from "underwater building" towards "Farm Hate." I think "Farm Hate" merits its own thread. As far as water mechanics, this is going to happen in an upcoming version. It's on the slate.
The Mojang development team also know who the major YouTube people are enough to fly many of them out to Sweden, meet with them at E3, talk with them at prior MineCons or otherwise interact with them. This would include Farm Builders such as Tango Tek and Mumbo Jumbo as well as builders such as Grian or promoters of mods and games such as LogDotZip. Your love or hate for those YouTubers who earn money from promoting Minecraft is not particularly relevant. What is relevant is that Mojang is likely to give consideration as to how these people currently build and what Mojang thinks they need, as well as for the teams creating things on Marketplace. If Mojang has a "what you do if" or "what would you need for building cool stuff underwater", the company has people making money off Minecraft and promoting this game to ask under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA's). The YouTube producers are not the end-all and be-all of the Minecraft community, but I think it's a good start for getting a fresh point-of-view on what nuts and bolts need to be created to have an Underwater release work well *AND* be promoted by the people who, as I said, earn a living off of doing their thing.
"Nobody builds underwater" is flatly false. Enough people are making underwater builds and enjoying watching OTHERS create builds underwater that there is money riding on this. It's a thing. Recognize it rather than denying it exists or isn't relevant.
"There shouldn't be farms" merits its own discussion elsewhere. But I can assure you the people who build farms as part of their real-life livelihood on YouTube will voice an opinion on what they will require to keep people subscribing and keep that ad revenue coming in. You may not agree with them (they don't often agree with one another). You may not watch them or like the YouTubers. But if you are not going to recognize a done deal and seek to positively participate in how water mechanics will be realized within a year or so, you should at least learn to live with disappointment as well as learn to lower your expectations.
There is a very good point made above: that the "new water physics" is not one issue but several.
First, there is the issue of: What is included?
the OP spoiler here states "Both water and items will be able to flow through things like fences and slabs", but what is included as "things like" is unclear [ie signs].
Mojang could save a lot of greif by making clear precisely what is intended. (Possibly grouped by what is expected to be included, what is what is expected to be excluded, and what has not been thought about… )
Second, there is the issue of whether the new idea is good/cool/useful/fun (YMMV, take your pick.)
The idea of 'Water-Only-Permeable-Fences', etc. [hereafter Water-Fence, Water-Slab, etc] Strikes me as having interesting possibilities for builds, and would be a welcome addition, but NOT replacement functionality.
"Also, items will now float!" stikes me as un-needed; floating stone/armor/tools makes no more logical sense than sinking wood/plants & — since hoppers will pick up anything in the block above — whether the item is on the top or botom of the water stream ought not to have any mechanical effect.
Third, there is the issue of what (if anything) will be 'broken' under the new physics.
Given that the cap on block ID numbers has been removed [cited in the discussions on the restructuring of commands],
there is now no reason other than intent to remove the current fences, slabs, signs.
IMO, the aquatic update would be better (as well as inducing less division within the minecraft community) if the new functionality were made purely as additions.
Were this tack to be taken, everyone would have the option to use either a Spuce_Fence or a Spruce_Water_Fence as appropriate to the build/purpose or their own aesthetic sensibilities.
Of course, this has the downside [really horrific, too] of requiring a bit of creativity with regards to crafting recipes (and possibly textures).
For textures (which are least likely to provoke strong divisions as they are easily changed);
perhaps the current Wood_Fence blocks could be given an appearance nearer to a board fence (instaed of the current rail design) to better reflect their water stopping function.
Similarly, the Water_Slabs might be made visually 1/3 of a block high (top or bottom) and/or have one or more channels added.
For crafting, the simplest solution I can think of is to rotate the new Water_Fence etc recipies 90°. (Doors & Trapdoors would need a different solution; assuming they are included in the "things like"… )
[A Fence, currently
Plank|Stick|Plank
Plank|Stick|Plank
would become Water_Fence
Plank|Plank
Stick|Stick
Plank|Plank
and so forth…]
This would also make the resource costs of the two sorts identical.
The problem arises when the OP tells people what they think and makes broad generalizations. i.e. "Nobody cares about underwater build."
At any rate, I really feel for you and your Command Block misadventures. I know so many like you that have had huge contraptions break, and then have to be rebuilt. Props for relearning it man.
The quickest way to my heart is with a smile.
Oh, and a white-oak stake.
Hi gang!
<comment about now invalidated poll removed>
Kind regards, Peter
Answers in red.
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdu9LKAdIU
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
15w14a is on this link:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/15w14a
1.RV-Pre1 is here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.RV-Pre1
At the moment, building underwater is hard and is boring, and there isn't even much to look at when you are at the sea floor. Since the new update will change both of these things, more people will most likely have a desire to build underwater. Also, if people don't want to build underwater at all, why do the "Underwater House" tutorials get so many views?
I think that's going to be interesting, people are just lazy sometimes. It was the same when PvP changed... And I honestly prefer how it is now. It's more "real" in some way, and I believe water needs to get more real too.
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ModeratorBecause there were two threads in Discussion about new water physics and one here in Recent Updates and Snapshots, I merged them all into a single thread.
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"Mumbo Jumbo does giant and ridiculous projects for no reason at all." Actually, the 'why' isn't relevant to this discussion, but he does push the boundaries. And at the boundaries, we find out what makes or breaks Minecraft gameplay. I started watching his Hermitcraft series because I wanted to learn technical solutions to various problems so I can use them in my own builds. And I find his videos entertaining so I *keep* watching, but that's beside the point for this thread. I don't know about the "average" player. I know what I want to do, and what I want are two things: 1) cool stuff to explore and do in that vast, empty, lifeless ocean, which these changes propose to make possible and 2) I want to build my own cool stuff and have these new water effects be a part of that. My wife does a great deal of fishing. I'd love to build an aquarium for her. How do we go about that?
"Fun? FUN?! FUN?! FUN?!" Yeah, I wouldn't place sea lanterns all over the ocean floor, or maybe I would if I had something to show. Not particularly relevant for this thread, in my opinion. Mumbo has had to deal with specific problems that EVERY player building underwater will encounter regardless of scale. Mumbo is pushing the boundaries of scope and scale, regardless of "fun" to do or "fun" to watch. Edge cases prove issues with technique and serve as use cases. And as far as the "fun" aspect... when Mumbo flies up in his Elytra and looks back on it, he's thrilled and excited to see what he's accomplished. I get that, because I get the same thing out of my builds. If I wasn't getting something out of it, I wouldn't be doing it. And for the purpose of this thread, I'd *really* like to get more out of underwater building than what current tech allows for, especially in the way of flora and fauna that exist underwater as well as dealing with "water bubbles" in non-solid blocks.
Mumbo: "I'm probably going to cry because underwater builds are horrible."
"What does LATE mean?"
I can't remember what episode, I quickly scanned through Episode 0 for it, but Mumbo mentioned how EVERYONE seemed to have an underwater base in one or another earlier season. He decided it was time for him to finally do one. I downloaded Hermitcraft 4, and I did see some spectacular underwater builds there. By "late" I simply meant that this is his first underwater base, where other Hermits have already done one by this time and have moved on.
"Farms are terrible." That would be a matter of opinion depending upon one's circumstances and interests in building. My wife hated the idea of building farms. She didn't want me to take away the "fun" of actually going out to mine the ore, harvesting the crops, getting the XP... it didn't take her long before, "how soon can we build an iron farm? How long before that Skele farm is up? Is the pumpkin/ melon farm ready yet?" It didn't take her long to decide some of the tasks were better automated or made more simple to allow both of us to do other things, and so it is.
Along with the OP, I am concerned about water "pipes" and moving both items and entities both up and over using water streams. As long as we have those covered, I think we'll be ok. Bedrock currently has horrible dropper elevators. I seriously hope they cook up a better fix for item elevators like Java currently has. Official Vanilla "pipes" would go a long way and solve much of the angst over water mechanics.
I don't think so... I use pipes in my modded world and well... It really takes the vanilla feel away. It makes it too simple. I like it that in vanilla you need to use hoppers, water etc. In vanilla you can do everything, but it's not so simple, that's what I like about vanilla. Ofc with this style, performance becomes an issue with large scale builds. But i think pipes and other tech stuff is better left for the tech-mod community, who use them in massive/complex builds. It would make items sorters and basic farms way too simple for regular players. Maybe a simple straight line pipe system to reduce the performance issue of hoppers cheking for items every tick would be good, but sorting pipes, round-robin pipes etc is something I would rather not see in vanilla.
Unfortunately this also invalidated the poll. The question was two-fold where the liking of the new mechanic was basically the primary one, not the question about whether players have build something underwater. Might have been easier to just lock and/or remove the poll thread, this is kind of messy right now.
Kind regards, Peter
Mob farms are structures abusing the game's design flaws for free items. Why should they be possible
So YOU are telling ME what I do or do not care about? I care about underwater builds.
"Quasi-connectivity is also an "irritating game design""
If it is irritating game design, it should be removed. Even if people find a way to use it
Click the dragon/egg that is on top to help me raise my dragons
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/off-topic/forum-games/2824114-delete-the-block-above-you
I understand your opinion, and to some extent, I agree with you. I do make Redstone filters on things as a matter-of-course, though they are bulky and not as "nice" as glass "pipes" with http://wiki.sk89q.com/wiki/CraftBook/Pipes. I'm not suggesting "pipes" be quite that technical. What I mainly hope for is that if water elevators for entities like villagers or ice-water pipes for items no longer work, I'd like for us to have some suitable replacement that still fits "Minecraft", but allows us to continue to create things like water elevators and ice-water pipes without the current problems and unintended consequences associated with those means of transport using water.
So... when *I* enjoy building creative means to avoid tedious but necessary activities in Minecraft, it's ok for you to tell ME what I shouldn't care about, but when someone tells YOU that you shouldn't care about things YOU enjoy, you won't allow that.
Ok. Got it. So long as we are on the same page.
Couldn't agree less. Automatic farms is what this game is all about for me. When I play survival I start as guy with nothing and have to do a lot of manual work. I put in this work to make my future easier, automate everything, so I can focus on building instead of tedious farming. Manual item sorting is like the most tedious thing, but unavoidable for a long period when you start to play. Making an automatic item sorter is more like a goal of the game rather than a design flaw if you ask me
Just like with any farm. You need to collect lots of items, understand game mechanics, do a lot of manual work to even get your farm going. And once you do you no longer have to worry about that single resource and can start on a new project. Sounds like fair game to me.
Keeping your farms manual is like refusing to use a pickaxe better than wood imo.
I think item sorters and automatic farms are okay, as long as they don't abuse the game's design flaws, one of which is the bad liquid physics. An automated mob farm is okay in my opinion, but you'll have to find something more clever than floating lava above signs with hoppers, because, in my opinion, you are then exploiting the bad physics. There are loads of other options, like cacti, arrows, potions, or suffocating or drowning them, and many more.
Click the dragon/egg that is on top to help me raise my dragons
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/off-topic/forum-games/2824114-delete-the-block-above-you
Cactoni, lavato... I'm the one who gets to decide what normal, as intended working game physics suits my purpose as long as I don't violate server rules. Fortunately for me, I make the rules on my server. When my wife let's me.
If signs no longer hold up lava, I will use what works as intended game physics.
This post is redundant. Please read post #1. Thanks.
I always thought it was quite odd that water could be blocked by objects which had "holes" in them or around them, such as signs and fences. I think it makes Minecraft more believable if this is corrected. And I'm sure that innovative builders will still come up with ways to make their automated machinery work.
Answers in red.
This reply covers one of the big reasons why I hate farms. One that hasn't been shown much before on this forum. Another reason (which has been shown on this forum) is the part about using glitches in the game that should really be patched. Another reason is the fact that it gives you essentially unlimited materials, which can be considered OP in any game.
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdu9LKAdIU
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
15w14a is on this link:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/15w14a
1.RV-Pre1 is here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.RV-Pre1
Actually I've been wanting an underwater base for some time, I have met others who had made Underwater bases, it's not for everyone but there are people that want to build underwater. Even if you don't want to build under water even beach front features will be better when you have smaller than full blocks and don't want weird air pockets, even stuff like fountains will be better.
YES!
Finally, underwater builds can look decent without hideous air bubbles.
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Yeah, the discussion wandered away from "underwater building" towards "Farm Hate." I think "Farm Hate" merits its own thread. As far as water mechanics, this is going to happen in an upcoming version. It's on the slate.
The Mojang development team also know who the major YouTube people are enough to fly many of them out to Sweden, meet with them at E3, talk with them at prior MineCons or otherwise interact with them. This would include Farm Builders such as Tango Tek and Mumbo Jumbo as well as builders such as Grian or promoters of mods and games such as LogDotZip. Your love or hate for those YouTubers who earn money from promoting Minecraft is not particularly relevant. What is relevant is that Mojang is likely to give consideration as to how these people currently build and what Mojang thinks they need, as well as for the teams creating things on Marketplace. If Mojang has a "what you do if" or "what would you need for building cool stuff underwater", the company has people making money off Minecraft and promoting this game to ask under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA's). The YouTube producers are not the end-all and be-all of the Minecraft community, but I think it's a good start for getting a fresh point-of-view on what nuts and bolts need to be created to have an Underwater release work well *AND* be promoted by the people who, as I said, earn a living off of doing their thing.
"Nobody builds underwater" is flatly false. Enough people are making underwater builds and enjoying watching OTHERS create builds underwater that there is money riding on this. It's a thing. Recognize it rather than denying it exists or isn't relevant.
"There shouldn't be farms" merits its own discussion elsewhere. But I can assure you the people who build farms as part of their real-life livelihood on YouTube will voice an opinion on what they will require to keep people subscribing and keep that ad revenue coming in. You may not agree with them (they don't often agree with one another). You may not watch them or like the YouTubers. But if you are not going to recognize a done deal and seek to positively participate in how water mechanics will be realized within a year or so, you should at least learn to live with disappointment as well as learn to lower your expectations.
There is a very good point made above: that the "new water physics" is not one issue but several.
First, there is the issue of: What is included?
the OP spoiler here states "Both water and items will be able to flow through things like fences and slabs", but what is included as "things like" is unclear [ie signs].
Mojang could save a lot of greif by making clear precisely what is intended. (Possibly grouped by what is expected to be included, what is what is expected to be excluded, and what has not been thought about… )
Second, there is the issue of whether the new idea is good/cool/useful/fun (YMMV, take your pick.)
The idea of 'Water-Only-Permeable-Fences', etc. [hereafter Water-Fence, Water-Slab, etc] Strikes me as having interesting possibilities for builds, and would be a welcome addition, but NOT replacement functionality.
"Also, items will now float!" stikes me as un-needed; floating stone/armor/tools makes no more logical sense than sinking wood/plants & — since hoppers will pick up anything in the block above — whether the item is on the top or botom of the water stream ought not to have any mechanical effect.
Third, there is the issue of what (if anything) will be 'broken' under the new physics.
Given that the cap on block ID numbers has been removed [cited in the discussions on the restructuring of commands],
there is now no reason other than intent to remove the current fences, slabs, signs.
IMO, the aquatic update would be better (as well as inducing less division within the minecraft community) if the new functionality were made purely as additions.
Were this tack to be taken, everyone would have the option to use either a Spuce_Fence or a Spruce_Water_Fence as appropriate to the build/purpose or their own aesthetic sensibilities.
Of course, this has the downside [really horrific, too] of requiring a bit of creativity with regards to crafting recipes (and possibly textures).
For textures (which are least likely to provoke strong divisions as they are easily changed);
perhaps the current Wood_Fence blocks could be given an appearance nearer to a board fence (instaed of the current rail design) to better reflect their water stopping function.
Similarly, the Water_Slabs might be made visually 1/3 of a block high (top or bottom) and/or have one or more channels added.
For crafting, the simplest solution I can think of is to rotate the new Water_Fence etc recipies 90°. (Doors & Trapdoors would need a different solution; assuming they are included in the "things like"… )
[A Fence, currently
Plank|Stick|Plank
Plank|Stick|Plank
would become Water_Fence
Plank|Plank
Stick|Stick
Plank|Plank
and so forth…]
This would also make the resource costs of the two sorts identical.
edit for typos & BBcode
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.