If you haven't run the Win 10 version lately, maybe you should take a look. This is the unified "Better Together" version and there's a LOT going on here that Java Edition players may not be aware of.
The only thing keeping them from being able to connect is the will power to make it happen. So what do you think?
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Please actually read posts before responding, so you don't end up looking stewped.
There are some major differences between the Java Edition and the Bedrock Engine. There are things in the Java edition that don't exist in the Bedrock engine and vice-versa.
The game mechanics for redstone do not work the same in the two versions either. For example, the Bedrock edition does not have quasi-connectivity, so any redstone circuits that rely upon it will not work at all in the Bedrock engine. Quasi-connectivity will never be added either since it is technically a bug in the Java code that they just left in because too many people were exploiting it. The Bedrock team has already taken a firm stand on this and will never add it. The Java team cannot remove it without angering a very large redstone community.
The fact that the game engines are different is not an impediment to online compatibility; Ford's and Toyota's have different engines, but both are able to use the road. The underlying communication protocols are different, so, there and would need to be a translation layer added.
Microsoft would have to have an $ incentive $ to make that happen. I would argue that the huge Java base is a large untapped market that could be opened up with such a translation layer.
MS/Mojang needs to find a way to add some of the new console content to the Java edition. A couple million people might pay $1 each for optional texture packs and pre-built maps. Content they have already created and have been selling for a few years now.
I know it would be difficult, but they have the resources to do it if they can find the right motivation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please actually read posts before responding, so you don't end up looking stewped.
There was a plugin called BigBrother for PocketMine which worked on the Pocket Edition. It allowed for Java players to play on PE/Bedrock Edition servers. It is a few years old, and I can't figure out if it is in development for 1.2, the Better Together update.
Console manufacturers in general do not want you to mod your game. Microsoft doesn't, Sony doesn;t, and Nintendo doesn't. That's why Consoles are a closed platform compared to the more open PC.
Stop trying to shift every negative aspect of console gaming entirely on Microsoft.
Sony and Nintendo aren't relevant, because they don't own Minecraft. What's happening to Minecraft is, in fact, entirely Microsoft fault.
Microsoft has ONE goal for Minecraft, and that is to monetize the crap out of it. They intend to make people pay for as much as they can possibly get away with, and from the way the non-Java edition sales are going, it seems like they can get away with just about anything.
I mean think about it, they HAVE to! They paid 2.4 billion dollars for it! Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that number is? Numbers that large are hard to comprehend, so let me try to put that into perspective.
If you had 1 billion dollars, with no interest, just 1 billion dollars, you could spend $1000 an hour for 100 years, and you'd still have over 123 million left ($123,400,000.00).
So Microsoft is going to make you pay for everything. Their shareholders want to see a return on their investment, and that's coming out of your wallet. They will add more DRM to reduce or eliminate free content, and the demise of Java Edition is inevitable. You say prove it, the proof is in the ridiculously large investment they made. They simply can't afford to have a version of the game with so much freedom. If they can't figure out how to monetise Java edition, they will kill it off.
They won't do it right away, of course. They want us all to voluntarily move over to Windows 10 Minecraft, that's why they are giving it to us for free (it's also why Java won't get cross-platform play), and if the majority of Java players switch, then they can kill off Java Edition with far less drama. We are safe for the immediate future, but Java Edition is living on borrowed time.
And this is why in the three years Microsoft has owned Minecraft everything has become a paid service and nothing can be done for free!
Oh wait...
You still can Even on the Pocket Edition and Windows 10 Edition can you still download maps, edit skins, and install resource packs for 0 dollars and 0 cents.
Interesting discussion. Some of it I agree with, some, not so much. Minecraft will find a way to make more money on the Java Edition. It's a corporation, it's what they do. That doesn't have to be a bad thing. let me explain.
Java plugin and module makers are falling by the wayside. They don't really make any money and so over time, they lose interest and move on and there work goes unsupported. The ones that are able to make a few bucks, last longer. In the end only the obsessively passionate and the ones making a living will remain. Whats a player to do? Java edition player can either stay on an older version of Minecraft or give up their mods and plugins to stay current.
Enter M$. They would like to make money so how do they get DLC into the hands of the Java Edition.
1. Build content distribution into the Minecraft launcher or game (duplicating the efforts of the the C++ based group) OR
2. Find a way to make them talk to each other.
Microsoft does not have to "control" servers to make that happen. They do have to enforce vanilla gameplay when connected to a non PC based game. Vanilla servers are already built into minecraft so you can start a singleplayer world and then invite your xbox friends to play or join there game.
The C++ players will never be able to play on spigot/bukkit/sponge/bungee or any other non vanilla server, but Java players could play in "vanilla" mode hosting or connected to a console base server if the translation layer were added and the games were all running the same "underlying update".
They could then make the console content available (DLC) resource packs and maps available and make the $ they need. HardCore players are NEVER going to adopt the Win10 version, but they might be persuaded to play on the console based network.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please actually read posts before responding, so you don't end up looking stewped.
I feel Microsoft is already thinking ahead as to how to monetize the Java version the way it has with the C++ version and that has the potential to bring a lot of good things. Most good things are not free, and I'm ok with that.
I don't think they are so stupid as to kill all the Java edition servers out there, but I suspect we may see Win10 like features creep into the Java Edition. The new Crafting Table and Observer block is an example of how the console version is already having an impact.
IMHO the Microsoft effort to unify all the console versions into 1 code base and the push to add "shaders" and other features directly into that code base points to the direction they are taking at Minecraft. I think better integration into the Java Edition is inevitable, and predict that you will see the launcher replaced in the next 18 months with one that has some of the Win10 features and may even be written in C++ instead of Java.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please actually read posts before responding, so you don't end up looking stewped.
indent=30px] Textbook Microsoft, 1. Embrace: Development of software substantially compatible with a competing product, or implementing a public standard. 2. Extend: Addition and promotion of features not supported by the competing product or part of the standard, creating interoperability problems for customers who try to use the 'simple' standard. 3. Extinguish: When extensions become a de facto standard because of their dominant market share, they marginalize competitors that do not or cannot support the new extensions.
I copy-pasted that without changing a word. I think it is obvious how bedrock, and its proprietory nature, fits this pattern.
[/indent]
Time and time again. Good lesson.
Take another. Walmart buys shirts from Acme Shirt Corp., but Acme sells to lots of suppliers. Walmart pays Acme $1 a shirt and orders a lot of shirts. To meet Walmart's demand, Acme stops selling to so many other places. Walmart buys even more. To meet that increased demand, Acme opens a new plant hiring lots of people. Great for the economy, right?
Well, the next step is Walmart says, "We can only pay you $0.75 a shirt now." At that point, Acme has to eat the loss. It's lost customers and has opened a new plant; overhead up, customers down means they're stuck. Then, Walmart knows it can really squeeze. It can buy the company for pennies on the dollar, or, since it's probably already selling generic versions of the product anyway, it can just let them go out of business. Plenty of other shirt makers out there ready to take Acme's place. It's done that process over and over again.
"But, Walmart's prices are lower!"
No. Practically everything is more expensive now (including adjustment for inflation) than it was a decade ago, let alone two decades. I'm 36 and recall going to college paying out of my pocket working a part time job and co-renting a nice apartment. I didn't eat ramen every other meal, either. Try that today. Forget about it.
Replace Walmart with Amazon and it's the same story.
It's like the analogy of shortening the dog's chain. If you take it link by link over a long period of time, it won't realize how short it's become and it won't remember how long it was.
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My short story-like journals; quick-and-easy reads:
I think better integration into the Java Edition is inevitable, and predict that you will see the launcher replaced in the next 18 months with one that has some of the Win10 features and may even be written in C++ instead of Java.
That has already been done; the current launcher, which was released earlier this year, is a native executable, no doubt written in C++, which is why you don't even need to install Java in order to run it (the bundled runtime is only used by the game itself):
2.0.164-stage[11] October 26th, 2016
New launcher iteration for testing initially for Windows and macOS
Runs as a native application that no longer requires Java
Interface redesign
"No longer requires Java", "interface redesign". Sure sounds like it (I have no idea what Win10 looks like). Here is a screenshot in case you are still using the old one; it even has a hamburger button, which was made popular by mobile apps:
indent=30px] Textbook Microsoft, 1. Embrace: Development of software substantially compatible with a competing product, or implementing a public standard. 2. Extend: Addition and promotion of features not supported by the competing product or part of the standard, creating interoperability problems for customers who try to use the 'simple' standard. 3. Extinguish: When extensions become a de facto standard because of their dominant market share, they marginalize competitors that do not or cannot support the new extensions.
I copy-pasted that without changing a word. I think it is obvious how bedrock, and its proprietory nature, fits this pattern.
[/indent]
I just read the link and want to point out that most of the legal actions pointed to in the document are over a decade old from when Bill Gates was chairman of Microsoft. I make no apologies for the corporate giants bad behaviors, and indeed hope that we are not going to see them repeated. I acknowledge that Embrace and Extend has already happened with the release of the Win10 version. We will have to see if the upcomming wizbang features increase it's market share.
However, Win10 is currently intimately tied to the Xbox system, requiring a Microsoft account and does not use Mojang's account validation system. Realizing that, I've re-consider how all of this will unfold. Mojang databases would have to be somehow merged into account.microsoft.com. With MS's high concern for security and the ongoing hackability of MC Java, I don't see that happening.
I may have to change my vote, on that point alone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please actually read posts before responding, so you don't end up looking stewped.
Sony and Nintendo aren't relevant, because they don't own Minecraft. What's happening to Minecraft is, in fact, entirely Microsoft fault.
Microsoft has ONE goal for Minecraft, and that is to monetize the crap out of it. They intend to make people pay for as much as they can possibly get away with, and from the way the non-Java edition sales are going, it seems like they can get away with just about anything.
I mean think about it, they HAVE to! They paid 2.4 billion dollars for it! Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that number is? Numbers that large are hard to comprehend, so let me try to put that into perspective.
If you had 1 billion dollars, with no interest, just 1 billion dollars, you could spend $1000 an hour for 100 years, and you'd still have over 123 million left ($123,400,000.00).
So Microsoft is going to make you pay for everything. Their shareholders want to see a return on their investment, and that's coming out of your wallet. They will add more DRM to reduce or eliminate free content, and the demise of Java Edition is inevitable. You say prove it, the proof is in the ridiculously large investment they made. They simply can't afford to have a version of the game with so much freedom. If they can't figure out how to monetise Java edition, they will kill it off.
They won't do it right away, of course. They want us all to voluntarily move over to Windows 10 Minecraft, that's why they are giving it to us for free (it's also why Java won't get cross-platform play), and if the majority of Java players switch, then they can kill off Java Edition with far less drama. We are safe for the immediate future, but Java Edition is living on borrowed time.
While I've no doubt that Microsoft is trying to monetize Minecraft to get a return on their investment, Mojang has been greedy on their own for quite some time. They've long been licensing overpriced merchandise. The price of the game has risen, even though you'd think with the demand as well as the amount of time it's been out would mean the game would at least maintain its pricing. And, of course, skin packs and whatnot were a thing long before Microsoft took control. Microsoft only took these pre-existing mechanics and extended them, only now, players can get a chunk of the cash.
That has already been done; the current launcher, which was released earlier this year, is a native executable, no doubt written in C++, which is why you don't even need to install Java in order to run it (the bundled runtime is only used by the game itself):
"No longer requires Java", "interface redesign". Sure sounds like it (I have no idea what Win10 looks like).
You are correct the launcher is a C++ application. The Win10 version does not actually have a seperate launcher, is just a menu/options screen built directly into the game. The [Play] button allows you to Manage Worlds, Add Friends, and Connect to Servers. Manage Worlds allows you to create your own world and play it as single player or multiplayer, add options like resource packs and behavior packs (plugins maybe?) that you can buy.
So in just a few mouse clicks you can be up and running with your own server private and invite players to join, including console players. Or you can create a Realms server and make it public or private. The public servers already on the list look remarkably like some of the large Java based servers that host multiple worlds with different server modes and minigames.
I started playing Minecraft on the XBox MC version equivalent to 1.4 and switched to the PC version after about 6 months. NEW MC players that come from the XBox are unlikely to take that same path, but instead move up to Win10. Where they can still play with their friends, have built in chat, friends list, and many of the benefits of the Java Edition in an easier to use package.
There was nothing listed under the behavior packs page, so that is likely an indication of things to come. So the original question, will Win10 ever connect to Java Edition? I've changed my mind and say probably not. Will the Java Edition ever connect to Win10 servers? Maybe, but I think it's more likely that the Java Edition will gain Win10 like features as long as MS can see a way to monetize those features.
ATTACHMENTS
MC_Win10
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please actually read posts before responding, so you don't end up looking stewped.
If you haven't run the Win 10 version lately, maybe you should take a look. This is the unified "Better Together" version and there's a LOT going on here that Java Edition players may not be aware of.
The only thing keeping them from being able to connect is the will power to make it happen. So what do you think?
There are some major differences between the Java Edition and the Bedrock Engine. There are things in the Java edition that don't exist in the Bedrock engine and vice-versa.
The game mechanics for redstone do not work the same in the two versions either. For example, the Bedrock edition does not have quasi-connectivity, so any redstone circuits that rely upon it will not work at all in the Bedrock engine. Quasi-connectivity will never be added either since it is technically a bug in the Java code that they just left in because too many people were exploiting it. The Bedrock team has already taken a firm stand on this and will never add it. The Java team cannot remove it without angering a very large redstone community.
The fact that the game engines are different is not an impediment to online compatibility; Ford's and Toyota's have different engines, but both are able to use the road. The underlying communication protocols are different, so, there and would need to be a translation layer added.
Microsoft would have to have an $ incentive $ to make that happen. I would argue that the huge Java base is a large untapped market that could be opened up with such a translation layer.
MS/Mojang needs to find a way to add some of the new console content to the Java edition. A couple million people might pay $1 each for optional texture packs and pre-built maps. Content they have already created and have been selling for a few years now.
I know it would be difficult, but they have the resources to do it if they can find the right motivation.
There was a plugin called BigBrother for PocketMine which worked on the Pocket Edition. It allowed for Java players to play on PE/Bedrock Edition servers. It is a few years old, and I can't figure out if it is in development for 1.2, the Better Together update.
Sony and Nintendo aren't relevant, because they don't own Minecraft. What's happening to Minecraft is, in fact, entirely Microsoft fault.
Microsoft has ONE goal for Minecraft, and that is to monetize the crap out of it. They intend to make people pay for as much as they can possibly get away with, and from the way the non-Java edition sales are going, it seems like they can get away with just about anything.
I mean think about it, they HAVE to! They paid 2.4 billion dollars for it! Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that number is? Numbers that large are hard to comprehend, so let me try to put that into perspective.
If you had 1 billion dollars, with no interest, just 1 billion dollars, you could spend $1000 an hour for 100 years, and you'd still have over 123 million left ($123,400,000.00).
So Microsoft is going to make you pay for everything. Their shareholders want to see a return on their investment, and that's coming out of your wallet. They will add more DRM to reduce or eliminate free content, and the demise of Java Edition is inevitable. You say prove it, the proof is in the ridiculously large investment they made. They simply can't afford to have a version of the game with so much freedom. If they can't figure out how to monetise Java edition, they will kill it off.
They won't do it right away, of course. They want us all to voluntarily move over to Windows 10 Minecraft, that's why they are giving it to us for free (it's also why Java won't get cross-platform play), and if the majority of Java players switch, then they can kill off Java Edition with far less drama. We are safe for the immediate future, but Java Edition is living on borrowed time.
For now, but that will change.
Interesting discussion. Some of it I agree with, some, not so much. Minecraft will find a way to make more money on the Java Edition. It's a corporation, it's what they do. That doesn't have to be a bad thing. let me explain.
Java plugin and module makers are falling by the wayside. They don't really make any money and so over time, they lose interest and move on and there work goes unsupported. The ones that are able to make a few bucks, last longer. In the end only the obsessively passionate and the ones making a living will remain. Whats a player to do? Java edition player can either stay on an older version of Minecraft or give up their mods and plugins to stay current.
Enter M$. They would like to make money so how do they get DLC into the hands of the Java Edition.
1. Build content distribution into the Minecraft launcher or game (duplicating the efforts of the the C++ based group) OR
2. Find a way to make them talk to each other.
Microsoft does not have to "control" servers to make that happen. They do have to enforce vanilla gameplay when connected to a non PC based game. Vanilla servers are already built into minecraft so you can start a singleplayer world and then invite your xbox friends to play or join there game.
The C++ players will never be able to play on spigot/bukkit/sponge/bungee or any other non vanilla server, but Java players could play in "vanilla" mode hosting or connected to a console base server if the translation layer were added and the games were all running the same "underlying update".
They could then make the console content available (DLC) resource packs and maps available and make the $ they need. HardCore players are NEVER going to adopt the Win10 version, but they might be persuaded to play on the console based network.
I agree with a lot of what you said.
I feel Microsoft is already thinking ahead as to how to monetize the Java version the way it has with the C++ version and that has the potential to bring a lot of good things. Most good things are not free, and I'm ok with that.
I don't think they are so stupid as to kill all the Java edition servers out there, but I suspect we may see Win10 like features creep into the Java Edition. The new Crafting Table and Observer block is an example of how the console version is already having an impact.
IMHO the Microsoft effort to unify all the console versions into 1 code base and the push to add "shaders" and other features directly into that code base points to the direction they are taking at Minecraft. I think better integration into the Java Edition is inevitable, and predict that you will see the launcher replaced in the next 18 months with one that has some of the Win10 features and may even be written in C++ instead of Java.
Take another. Walmart buys shirts from Acme Shirt Corp., but Acme sells to lots of suppliers. Walmart pays Acme $1 a shirt and orders a lot of shirts. To meet Walmart's demand, Acme stops selling to so many other places. Walmart buys even more. To meet that increased demand, Acme opens a new plant hiring lots of people. Great for the economy, right?
Well, the next step is Walmart says, "We can only pay you $0.75 a shirt now." At that point, Acme has to eat the loss. It's lost customers and has opened a new plant; overhead up, customers down means they're stuck. Then, Walmart knows it can really squeeze. It can buy the company for pennies on the dollar, or, since it's probably already selling generic versions of the product anyway, it can just let them go out of business. Plenty of other shirt makers out there ready to take Acme's place. It's done that process over and over again.
"But, Walmart's prices are lower!"
No. Practically everything is more expensive now (including adjustment for inflation) than it was a decade ago, let alone two decades. I'm 36 and recall going to college paying out of my pocket working a part time job and co-renting a nice apartment. I didn't eat ramen every other meal, either. Try that today. Forget about it.
Replace Walmart with Amazon and it's the same story.
It's like the analogy of shortening the dog's chain. If you take it link by link over a long period of time, it won't realize how short it's become and it won't remember how long it was.
My short story-like journals; quick-and-easy reads:
My Quest for Elytra Complete! (Pic Intense, End-Game Spoilers)
[Journal & Pics] After a Year and a Half, I Finally Found a Jungle
FrozenCore: Hardcore Death; 3/20/15 to 5/3/15; Eight Weeks on a Frozen World in Pictures
That has already been done; the current launcher, which was released earlier this year, is a native executable, no doubt written in C++, which is why you don't even need to install Java in order to run it (the bundled runtime is only used by the game itself):
"No longer requires Java", "interface redesign". Sure sounds like it (I have no idea what Win10 looks like). Here is a screenshot in case you are still using the old one; it even has a hamburger button, which was made popular by mobile apps:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
However, Win10 is currently intimately tied to the Xbox system, requiring a Microsoft account and does not use Mojang's account validation system. Realizing that, I've re-consider how all of this will unfold. Mojang databases would have to be somehow merged into account.microsoft.com. With MS's high concern for security and the ongoing hackability of MC Java, I don't see that happening.
I may have to change my vote, on that point alone.
While I've no doubt that Microsoft is trying to monetize Minecraft to get a return on their investment, Mojang has been greedy on their own for quite some time. They've long been licensing overpriced merchandise. The price of the game has risen, even though you'd think with the demand as well as the amount of time it's been out would mean the game would at least maintain its pricing. And, of course, skin packs and whatnot were a thing long before Microsoft took control. Microsoft only took these pre-existing mechanics and extended them, only now, players can get a chunk of the cash.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
You are correct the launcher is a C++ application. The Win10 version does not actually have a seperate launcher, is just a menu/options screen built directly into the game. The [Play] button allows you to Manage Worlds, Add Friends, and Connect to Servers. Manage Worlds allows you to create your own world and play it as single player or multiplayer, add options like resource packs and behavior packs (plugins maybe?) that you can buy.
So in just a few mouse clicks you can be up and running with your own server private and invite players to join, including console players. Or you can create a Realms server and make it public or private. The public servers already on the list look remarkably like some of the large Java based servers that host multiple worlds with different server modes and minigames.
I started playing Minecraft on the XBox MC version equivalent to 1.4 and switched to the PC version after about 6 months. NEW MC players that come from the XBox are unlikely to take that same path, but instead move up to Win10. Where they can still play with their friends, have built in chat, friends list, and many of the benefits of the Java Edition in an easier to use package.
There was nothing listed under the behavior packs page, so that is likely an indication of things to come. So the original question, will Win10 ever connect to Java Edition? I've changed my mind and say probably not. Will the Java Edition ever connect to Win10 servers? Maybe, but I think it's more likely that the Java Edition will gain Win10 like features as long as MS can see a way to monetize those features.