One issue with axes dealing greater damage than swords is that the player will not (most of the time) be fighting any mobs with more than 20 health. So, if I attack something with a diamond sword, then it takes 3 hits minimum to kill something. However, with the diamond axe, it only takes 2. It doesn't matter if the cooldown is longer; 2 swings with a slow weapon is probably faster than 3 even with a lighter weapon.
Also, it bugs me that axes still take 2x durability damage. If they want us to use them seriously, then they need to make them not break so often.
For those who are curious - if the "attack speed" stat represents hits per second, then a diamond hoe would do 8 DPS. For reference, the diamond sword does 10.15, and the axe 9.35. Also, hoes do not take durability damage from attacking.
I foresee staff-wielding warriors beating the crap out of their enemies, one quick hit after another.
All this said and done, considering the new mechanics and such the balancing is probably going to hit us like a train. What with the attack speeds, that bar that I haven't a clue what the point is, and other tools being viable for weapons. Let's not forget possible mob changes as well. Thought using Axes to deal heavy knockback or stun would be neat.
But axes break faster than swords as they take 2 durability damage when hitting something, instead of one.
That only really matters in extended combat or if it's almost broken to begin with. There is a very slight chance that tool durability will ever actually matter.
So, with the new snapshot, I'm now both yes and no about the combat changes.
Potion arrows and shields are awesome (though I don't think they need an arrow for every potion)
Attack speeds and the cooldown...not so much.
Yes, I'm aware that things will change by the full release (kinda like with the minecarts derailing thing was removed before 1.8 I think it was)
I'm fine with change, but with what was just revealed, I'm kinda iffy about it as I think it'll be confusing for not just PvPers, but for us survival players as well.
My main concern is that new hacks/mods will come out, which could end up making hackers more powerful and annoying for not only their opponents, but for servers to combat.
And, since people seem to be too dense and not thinking about the repercussions in comparison to the features, here are some other major points I found that are both good and bad (revolving around the latest snapshot):
It slows down a major portion of PvE and PvP but that being a good or bad thing is up to opinion
As cool as the swipe thing goes, I'm finding combat against enemies (like monsters) more boring and less enjoyable
Why the hell are shovels stronger than swords
With the attack speeds, taking out things like spawners will be a lot harder. (unless the attack speed is void when using it against a block)
You have to wait 0.8 seconds between each hit to do full damage with each swing. Which isn't worth it
Makes the combat look and act more gimmicky. It takes roughly 0.33 seconds to do a swing, then you are just sitting there staring at your enemy or repositioning for another 0.47 seconds, and repeating. It reminds me of games like Runscape where you just stare at your opponent most of the time.
Adds a potential new tactic to the gameplay: attack -> block with shield (some other things work too like splash potions) -> repeat every 0.8 seconds. Probbaly still spam clicking to some though.
Makes swords have less damage per second. Since before you could only hit an enemy every 0.5 seconds with perfect timing now, since you have to wait 0.8 seconds to do full damage it is a 60% melee damage nerf. And probably more easy to mess up timings with the new system, etc.
Makes swords have similar damage per second as bows, especially with the new arrows and nerfed strength. This makes using your bow over and over even more desirable, and probably more powerful.
You can still chain hit enemies, although for less damage.
Makes it a lot easier and gives you more time to run in pvp melee combat, potentially allowing fights to drag out for a lot longer if the person running can regen a bunch.
If you are on a server and you're lagging then the whole attack speed aspect will make the lag's effect on you even worse
Combat is now like fighting a creeper - hit, run, hit, run, repeat every second until the monster is dead. The other alternatives to this is essentially hit and stand still or hit and block with shield.
Adds to the complexity of combat in the form of timing things and using items and such when your weapon is effectively on cooldown. But can also remove some complexity..
Makes it so you have to tunnel vision your cooldown on your swings which could effectively make people pay less attention as to what is even happening in the game.
The new combat could get highly repetitive quite quickly as you are constantly alternating between attacking and waiting, after doing this for a hour or so a quite large portion of people will definitely feel burnt out and want to do something else.
Makes the combat more similar to what you would find in a MMORPG.
For those who are curious - if the "attack speed" stat represents hits per second, then a diamond hoe would do 8 DPS. For reference, the diamond sword does 10.15, and the axe 9.35. Also, hoes do not take durability damage from attacking.
I foresee staff-wielding warriors beating the crap out of their enemies, one quick hit after another.
(edit: i'm stupid, ignore this)
(double edit: actually, I'm not, but I overcomplicated it; fixed it)
Attack speed represents how fast a weapon fully recharges. The formula for how quickly a weapon recharges in seconds is 1/[attack speed].
To calculate DPS, the formula would be [damage]/[recharge rate] OR [damage] * [attack speed]; however, if the recharge rate is less than 0.5 (the mercy invincibility timeframe), the formula is instead [damage]/0.5.
That means that the DPS of every diamond tool (assuming perfect timing) would be as follows:
No crits, no Sharpness
Swords: 11.6
Axes: 10.2
Pickaxes: 9.0
Shovels: 8.5
Hoes: 6.0 (Technically 12, but mercy invincibility will prevent half of your hits from connecting assuming perfect timing.)
Crits, no Sharpness:
Swords: 17.4
Axes: 15.3
Pickaxes: 13.5
Shovels: 12.75
Hoes: 9.0 (technically 18)
No crits, Sharpness V:
Swords: 20.6625
Axes: 14.6625
Pickaxes: 16.875
Shovels: 13.75
Hoes: 16.5 (technically 33)
Crits, Sharpness V:
Swords: 25.0125
Axes: 19.75
Pickaxes: 21.375
Shovels: 18.0
Hoes: 19.25 (technically 39)
Wooden tools, no crits, no sharpness (to see if axes are better than swords at low levels):
Swords: 7.25
Axes: 7.65
Pickaxes: 4.5
Shovels: 5.5
Hoes: 4 (technically 8)
Stone swords vs. stone axes:
Swords: 8.7
Axes: 8.5
So, basically, swords are still the best weapon except at VERY low levels. Somewhat surprisingly, pickaxes and even hoes actually outperform axes at very high levels. Don't be deceived by those high damage numbers, the attack speed makes them only really useful for oneshotting mobs on crits (which does keep them useful in PvE) and stunning shields. And to those of you saying shovels aren't weapons and shouldn't have higher damage than swords; guess what, their DPS is crap, especially when Sharpness is added in and hoes can get a not-terrible damage rating.
(If for some reason you want to check my work, remember to add 1 to the wiki's damage values, as they ignore the player's base damage which is added on to the weapon's bonus damage. Also, crits only multiply the unmodified damage of a weapon by 1.5; they do NOT count enchants towards the modifier.)
All right here. Swords in 15w34d have an attack speed of 1.45. This means that the recharge rate of the sword is about 0.7s. The mob invincibility time is 0.5s, leaving 0.2s difference. 0.2s happens to be a little less than the average human visual response time. Conclusion: Swords do about the same amount of damage in 1.8 and 1.9 without spam-clicking.
Swords do have one less attack damage in 15w34d (7 instead of 8), but this won't matter for the average mob.
I came here to add one thing. It's quite logical Axes are stronger. You are using more sources on it than on sword.
BUT the sword can be only used for attack. While Axe is for removing some blocks faster.
I think they should make more blocks that are harvastable using swords. Or basicaly make swords enchament better so swords would became better for enchanting.
An axe's DPS is actually not that great; they only beat out swords in wood/gold tier. With Sharpness V, hoes and even pickaxes have higher DPS than axes.
Swords always have the best DPS. There are only a few reasons you would not want to use a sword:
You're using a hoe for crowd control or spam (spam would currently be the best way of reducing armor durability to soften up an opponent, and hoes are the best spammers).
You're in PvP and want to use an axe to disable shields (don't use it as a primary weapon though).
You're in PvE and have an axe with a decent amount of Sharpness (on a crit, you'll kill everything with standard health in one shot, meaning its mediocre DPS only matters when fighting groups).
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Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
I like the changes and what could come next, it's actually something I was was asking for years ago and I'm eager to test my mettle against it.
But.
Those should belong to Hard mode only. I see no reason to inflict such major changes on people who have been playing the game for years, or to make the game more difficult to master for people wanting a simplistic experience from a game that was *always* simplistic.
(double edit: actually, I'm not, but I overcomplicated it; fixed it)
Attack speed represents how fast a weapon fully recharges. The formula for how quickly a weapon recharges in seconds is 1/[attack speed].
To calculate DPS, the formula would be [damage]/[recharge rate] OR [damage] * [attack speed]; however, if the recharge rate is less than 0.5 (the mercy invincibility timeframe), the formula is instead [damage]/0.5.
That means that the DPS of every diamond tool (assuming perfect timing) would be as follows:
No crits, no Sharpness
Swords: 11.6
Axes: 10.2
Pickaxes: 9.0
Shovels: 8.5
Hoes: 6.0 (Technically 12, but mercy invincibility will prevent half of your hits from connecting assuming perfect timing.)
Crits, no Sharpness:
Swords: 17.4
Axes: 15.3
Pickaxes: 13.5
Shovels: 12.75
Hoes: 9.0 (technically 18)
No crits, Sharpness V:
Swords: 20.6625
Axes: 14.6625
Pickaxes: 16.875
Shovels: 13.75
Hoes: 16.5 (technically 33)
Crits, Sharpness V:
Swords: 25.0125
Axes: 19.75
Pickaxes: 21.375
Shovels: 18.0
Hoes: 19.25 (technically 39)
Wooden tools, no crits, no sharpness (to see if axes are better than swords at low levels):
Swords: 7.25
Axes: 7.65
Pickaxes: 4.5
Shovels: 5.5
Hoes: 4 (technically 8)
Stone swords vs. stone axes:
Swords: 8.7
Axes: 8.5
So, basically, swords are still the best weapon except at VERY low levels. Somewhat surprisingly, pickaxes and even hoes actually outperform axes at very high levels. Don't be deceived by those high damage numbers, the attack speed makes them only really useful for oneshotting mobs on crits (which does keep them useful in PvE) and stunning shields. And to those of you saying shovels aren't weapons and shouldn't have higher damage than swords; guess what, their DPS is crap, especially when Sharpness is added in and hoes can get a not-terrible damage rating.
(If for some reason you want to check my work, remember to add 1 to the wiki's damage values, as they ignore the player's base damage which is added on to the weapon's bonus damage. Also, crits only multiply the unmodified damage of a weapon by 1.5; they do NOT count enchants towards the modifier.)
Wow thanks guys I'll have to remember that. but it cancels out at -4 or so (using commands to get speed) and can never be pulled out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am a computer Enderman and I am very smart. But my user isn't.
Jeb, Dinnerbone, etc. haven't seemed too interested in adding more dragons. Just be happy enough they didn't forget about the Ender Dragon. They never promised more dragons.
Red Dragons were just another one of Notch's far sighted visions for the game which never happened. He couldn't even finish the Ender Dragon before leaving development, which was supposed to be some overpowered boss fight that not even he was supposed to beat. I doubt he would have ever added another type dragon.
I'm looking forward to 1.9! The shields are so cool. I don't usually do snapshots because I've already had enough trouble with minecraft. The Mojang team keeps posting tweets about the zombies and their "clothing", are they talking about armor in the snapshot?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why are guinea pigs called guinea pigs when they are neither pigs or from guinea?
I'm looking forward to 1.9! The shields are so cool. I don't usually do snapshots because I've already had enough trouble with minecraft. The Mojang team keeps posting tweets about the zombies and their "clothing", are they talking about armor in the snapshot?
No, they're talking about villager zombies wearing torn villager clothes. That's what I think.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am a computer Enderman and I am very smart. But my user isn't.
Just tested and it looks like they finally fixed the bug where mobs deaggro after being hit. Said it applies to Zombies but it's fixed on all hostile mobs now.
I've only just now noticed that Zombies have an actual attack animation now where they swing their arms at you. They had one before I think but it was only used if they held a weapon.
Endermen also slap you too. More animation feedback is always nice.
One issue with axes dealing greater damage than swords is that the player will not (most of the time) be fighting any mobs with more than 20 health. So, if I attack something with a diamond sword, then it takes 3 hits minimum to kill something. However, with the diamond axe, it only takes 2. It doesn't matter if the cooldown is longer; 2 swings with a slow weapon is probably faster than 3 even with a lighter weapon.
Also, it bugs me that axes still take 2x durability damage. If they want us to use them seriously, then they need to make them not break so often.
For those who are curious - if the "attack speed" stat represents hits per second, then a diamond hoe would do 8 DPS. For reference, the diamond sword does 10.15, and the axe 9.35. Also, hoes do not take durability damage from attacking.
I foresee staff-wielding warriors beating the crap out of their enemies, one quick hit after another.
uh, formula for attack speed? I'm confused about how it works.
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Curse PremiumAll this said and done, considering the new mechanics and such the balancing is probably going to hit us like a train. What with the attack speeds, that bar that I haven't a clue what the point is, and other tools being viable for weapons. Let's not forget possible mob changes as well. Thought using Axes to deal heavy knockback or stun would be neat.
Figured it was time for a change.
That only really matters in extended combat or if it's almost broken to begin with. There is a very slight chance that tool durability will ever actually matter.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
So far as I can tell, the attack speed is the number of times per second that you can attack for full damage.
So, with the new snapshot, I'm now both yes and no about the combat changes.
Potion arrows and shields are awesome (though I don't think they need an arrow for every potion)
Attack speeds and the cooldown...not so much.
Yes, I'm aware that things will change by the full release (kinda like with the minecarts derailing thing was removed before 1.8 I think it was)
I'm fine with change, but with what was just revealed, I'm kinda iffy about it as I think it'll be confusing for not just PvPers, but for us survival players as well.
My main concern is that new hacks/mods will come out, which could end up making hackers more powerful and annoying for not only their opponents, but for servers to combat.
And, since people seem to be too dense and not thinking about the repercussions in comparison to the features, here are some other major points I found that are both good and bad (revolving around the latest snapshot):
(edit: i'm stupid, ignore this)
(double edit: actually, I'm not, but I overcomplicated it; fixed it)
Attack speed represents how fast a weapon fully recharges. The formula for how quickly a weapon recharges in seconds is 1/[attack speed].
To calculate DPS, the formula would be [damage]/[recharge rate] OR [damage] * [attack speed]; however, if the recharge rate is less than 0.5 (the mercy invincibility timeframe), the formula is instead [damage]/0.5.
That means that the DPS of every diamond tool (assuming perfect timing) would be as follows:
No crits, no Sharpness
Swords: 11.6
Axes: 10.2
Pickaxes: 9.0
Shovels: 8.5
Hoes: 6.0 (Technically 12, but mercy invincibility will prevent half of your hits from connecting assuming perfect timing.)
Crits, no Sharpness:
Swords: 17.4
Axes: 15.3
Pickaxes: 13.5
Shovels: 12.75
Hoes: 9.0 (technically 18)
No crits, Sharpness V:
Swords: 20.6625
Axes: 14.6625
Pickaxes: 16.875
Shovels: 13.75
Hoes: 16.5 (technically 33)
Crits, Sharpness V:
Swords: 25.0125
Axes: 19.75
Pickaxes: 21.375
Shovels: 18.0
Hoes: 19.25 (technically 39)
Wooden tools, no crits, no sharpness (to see if axes are better than swords at low levels):
Swords: 7.25
Axes: 7.65
Pickaxes: 4.5
Shovels: 5.5
Hoes: 4 (technically 8)
Stone swords vs. stone axes:
Swords: 8.7
Axes: 8.5
So, basically, swords are still the best weapon except at VERY low levels. Somewhat surprisingly, pickaxes and even hoes actually outperform axes at very high levels. Don't be deceived by those high damage numbers, the attack speed makes them only really useful for oneshotting mobs on crits (which does keep them useful in PvE) and stunning shields. And to those of you saying shovels aren't weapons and shouldn't have higher damage than swords; guess what, their DPS is crap, especially when Sharpness is added in and hoes can get a not-terrible damage rating.
(If for some reason you want to check my work, remember to add 1 to the wiki's damage values, as they ignore the player's base damage which is added on to the weapon's bonus damage. Also, crits only multiply the unmodified damage of a weapon by 1.5; they do NOT count enchants towards the modifier.)
All right here. Swords in 15w34d have an attack speed of 1.45. This means that the recharge rate of the sword is about 0.7s. The mob invincibility time is 0.5s, leaving 0.2s difference. 0.2s happens to be a little less than the average human visual response time. Conclusion: Swords do about the same amount of damage in 1.8 and 1.9 without spam-clicking.
Swords do have one less attack damage in 15w34d (7 instead of 8), but this won't matter for the average mob.
Putting the CENDENT back in transcendent!
An axe's DPS is actually not that great; they only beat out swords in wood/gold tier. With Sharpness V, hoes and even pickaxes have higher DPS than axes.
Swords always have the best DPS. There are only a few reasons you would not want to use a sword:
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Curse PremiumI like the changes and what could come next, it's actually something I was was asking for years ago and I'm eager to test my mettle against it.
But.
Those should belong to Hard mode only. I see no reason to inflict such major changes on people who have been playing the game for years, or to make the game more difficult to master for people wanting a simplistic experience from a game that was *always* simplistic.
Wow thanks guys I'll have to remember that. but it cancels out at -4 or so (using commands to get speed) and can never be pulled out.
User: Hey! I can read this!
They better add tamable RedDragons this update.
CoolGuard Plays YouTube Channel
Jeb, Dinnerbone, etc. haven't seemed too interested in adding more dragons. Just be happy enough they didn't forget about the Ender Dragon. They never promised more dragons.
Red Dragons were just another one of Notch's far sighted visions for the game which never happened. He couldn't even finish the Ender Dragon before leaving development, which was supposed to be some overpowered boss fight that not even he was supposed to beat. I doubt he would have ever added another type dragon.
I'm looking forward to 1.9! The shields are so cool. I don't usually do snapshots because I've already had enough trouble with minecraft. The Mojang team keeps posting tweets about the zombies and their "clothing", are they talking about armor in the snapshot?
Why are guinea pigs called guinea pigs when they are neither pigs or from guinea?
http://i.imgur.com/oDP7Nau.jpg If only minecraft had generation tools like this....
"Personally, I don't care how large the oceans are. I just want them to still be ocean. I want "land in water", not "water in land".
I SUPPORT BRINGING BACK ACTUAL CONTINENTS AND OCEANS.
No, they're talking about villager zombies wearing torn villager clothes. That's what I think.
User: Hey! I can read this!
Thanks, that makes more sense. Certainly an interesting addition.
Why are guinea pigs called guinea pigs when they are neither pigs or from guinea?
http://i.imgur.com/oDP7Nau.jpg If only minecraft had generation tools like this....
"Personally, I don't care how large the oceans are. I just want them to still be ocean. I want "land in water", not "water in land".
I SUPPORT BRINGING BACK ACTUAL CONTINENTS AND OCEANS.
Just tested and it looks like they finally fixed the bug where mobs deaggro after being hit. Said it applies to Zombies but it's fixed on all hostile mobs now.
Finally, mob aggro works.
Updated the topic again.
Badprenup said:
"Ignore the people saying that [x] will be the end of Minecraft and that [developer] is basically Satan + Hitler."
Sry, not yet.
User: Hey! I can read this!
I've only just now noticed that Zombies have an actual attack animation now where they swing their arms at you. They had one before I think but it was only used if they held a weapon.
Endermen also slap you too. More animation feedback is always nice.