The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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5/9/2024
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206
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Considering the End has already been updated (There weren't End Islands or End Cities upon release), it's probably not seen as a priority internally at Mojang. People can request things all they want, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen any time soon, if at all.
Outside of that, if they are working on an update for the End, they probably want it to be unique and not a Copy/paste of the Nether update. They'll likely want things to fit in the lore of the game, whatever that may look like.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, hold up, rewind, That's not even possible.
Considering the End has already been updated (There weren't End Islands or End Cities upon release), it's probably not seen as a priority internally at Mojang. People can request things all they want, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen any time soon, if at all.
Outside of that, if they are working on an update for the End, they probably want it to be unique and not a Copy/paste of the Nether update. They'll likely want things to fit in the lore of the game, whatever that may look like.
They also said they would think about adding new dimensions WHEN all the current ones got updated. So hopefully in 1.22 or soon we get a end update
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
5/9/2024
Posts:
206
Member Details
Ideally, 1.22 would be the End Update, but I'm not gonna hold out hope for it. In all likelihood, 1.22 is gonna update a few things like Pillagers and raid mechanics further (Bad omen in a bottle for a more controllable Raid experience was a great change), and maybe add a few more new blocks here and there, even changing or adding recipes for current items. Mind you, this is just me personally speculating pretty wildly with no actual proof so I very well could be wrong on it all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, hold up, rewind, That's not even possible.
I hope 1.22 is a focused and big update, regardless of if it's an end update or not. I do want an end update perhaps most of all, but I'd be happy if it's not as long whatever it is is more focused on a theme. I have no problems with 1.19 or 1.20, but they felt complementary rather than something on their own. And don't get wrong, we need updates like that, but after a string of them, I'd like something more akin to 1.13 through 1.18 for a change. I definitely could have lived without 1.21 though. I think the mace is absurd, and there's a major problem with structures being so common, and seeing ancient cities, trial chambers, and strongholds overlapping is just so bad. If I ever encountered that in person (especially if one of them was an ancient city), it'd seriously take me out of the mood. The game needs to do something to prevent structures from overlapping or being so close. Reducing them would also go a ways towards helping (but they need limitations to prevent close placement or overlapping even if they are reduced). We had a structure frequency issue five or more major versions ago, and it just... keeps... getting... worse.
In reality, structures WOULD collide underground when in state of ruins, which is true for at least two of the three you described here. That said, sharing a spawn type like temples used to do and how bastions/fortresses do now would work.
I hope 1.22 is a focused and big update, regardless of if it's an end update or not. I do want an end update perhaps most of all, but I'd be happy if it's not as long whatever it is is more focused on a theme. I have no problems with 1.19 or 1.20, but they felt complementary rather than something on their own. And don't get wrong, we need updates like that, but after a string of them, I'd like something more akin to 1.13 through 1.18 for a change. I definitely could have lived without 1.21 though. I think the mace is absurd, and there's a major problem with structures being so common, and seeing ancient cities, trial chambers, and strongholds overlapping is just so bad. If I ever encountered that in person (especially if one of them was an ancient city), it'd seriously take me out of the mood. The game needs to do something to prevent structures from overlapping or being so close. Reducing them would also go a ways towards helping (but they need limitations to prevent close placement or overlapping even if they are reduced). We had a structure frequency issue five or more major versions ago, and it just... keeps... getting... worse.
Considering the End has already been updated (There weren't End Islands or End Cities upon release), it's probably not seen as a priority internally at Mojang. People can request things all they want, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen any time soon, if at all.
Outside of that, if they are working on an update for the End, they probably want it to be unique and not a Copy/paste of the Nether update. They'll likely want things to fit in the lore of the game, whatever that may look like.
This essentially, The End is the final point of the 'progression' so it needs to be designed with some vague lore idea and not just coolness like side quests. This higher standard makes it more of a chore to update. The End's design is also very consistently barren and sparse, so the center island and dragon fight would have to change in parity and that means eons of bugtesting for the dragon ai.
The structures just generate. Nothing suggests they collide. If they did, such as from a quake or something, they'd probably be collapsed and/or ruined beyond recognition and not not intact and awkwardly overwriting one another. But even if you're considering "maybe lore" reasons, those are up to interpretation, and shouldn't be used to excuse bad design. The reason it's this way is simply because Mojang has littered the world with structures, and there's no checks in place to prevent them from overlapping.
In reality, structures WOULD collide underground when in state of ruins, which is true for at least two of the three you described here. That said, sharing a spawn type like temples used to do and how bastions/fortresses do now would work.
This essentially, The End is the final point of the 'progression' so it needs to be designed with some vague lore idea and not just coolness like side quests. This higher standard makes it more of a chore to update. The End's design is also very consistently barren and sparse, so the center island and dragon fight would have to change in parity and that means eons of bugtesting for the dragon ai.
So I don't know about structures colliding due to being in ruin, but I can see things interacting with each other over thousands of years due to shifting earth. If I'm not mistaken, the Earth's Crust does shift a few millimeters every year. You could apply that logic to structures in game that have intersected each other the way they have.
The center island where you fight the dragon, probably shouldn't change in appearance or add anything new. It's the Outer Islands that should be updated and changed to include possible new biomes and blocks. Bugs should obviously be fixed when and if possible, as should broken AI.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, hold up, rewind, That's not even possible.
It would be very easy for Mojang to prevent structures from generating on top of each other, I mean I've done it myself; a particularly notable example being mineshafts; I've found stuff like this in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4):
One of the largest mineshaft complexes I found the last time I played on my first world; the central region has at least 3-4 mineshafts overlapping in the same chunks, including two which generated in adjacent chunks with another a couple chunks to the north of those (the 4th panel shows the central rooms; the 3rd shows that most of them intersect, with another mineshaft to the south which is right above the southernmost part of the complex, to the west is a mineshaft which comes within one block of intersecting (including altitude):
A screenshot from another mineshaft complex; what is even going on here?!
A map from ChunkBase (when it still supported 1.6); the darkest dots are the central rooms of mineshafts, surrounded by shading corresponding to their typical extent; very few mineshafts are isolated at all and many are only a couple chunks apart, indicating extensive overlap (some may still be at different altitudes):
This is because, unlike all other large structures, mineshafts are placed randomly with no minimum spacing (they can even be in directly adjacent chunks, with several cases in the examples shown above) and all the decrease in mineshaft frequency in 1.7 did was make this less likely; I changed it so they generate aligned to a grid like other structures and if they do overlap it is only at the very outermost fringes:
Vanilla 1.6.4 is on the left and TMCW is on the right; mineshafts look way larger and denser in vanilla because most of what you see are actually multiple structures overlapping, both have about the same average size with TMCW having a much larger variation, including single mineshafts up to 3-4 times larger, sometimes even more, like the one to the left of center, and even that is smaller than the largest complexes in vanilla (and more orderly than even single mineshafts since I also fixed the pieces generating right on top of one another with no floor between):
Not only that, strongholds prevent mineshafts, and most caves, from generating nearby; those massive caves in my mod? You'll never, ever find a stronghold or a mineshaft in the middle of one, (they can intersect to some degree since it would be totally unfun if no underground features ever intersected so they were all completely isolated from each other, just not like this (a common sight in vanilla 1.6.4, and one of the few things that led to me to actually modify world generation in my otherwise vanilla first world to prevent; this is easy to do with the "old caves", as opposed to "noise caves", since they generate as separate entities, rather than just random terrain, thus I can count and/or measure the sizes of each cave within an area and use that to decide if a mineshaft can generate).
That said, Mojang simply closes issues regarding this as "works as intended", aka "we are too lazy to try to fix or at least improve this":
This also includes structures like desert temples on top of villages, which should absolutely not occur, and which I fixed myself, or lakes generating within villages (this did not occur prior to 1.13 and is likely a major reason why water lakes were removed but the much rarer lava lakes can still do so; at least the relevant issue was not closed as WAI):
Some of the code I use, though the multithreaded world generation in 1.13 (which shouldn't be necessary if the game were properly optimized, just use a single dedicated thread, not one per chunk) makes this quite problematic, hence why the vanilla check for lakes stopped working (vanilla simply disabled them entirely while I allow them to generate underground; lakes themselves check for blocks like stone bricks in order to avoid generating in strongholds and dungeons):
// Checks if structure could intersect a village so they do not collide
return !this.hasVillages || !this.villageGenerator.hasStructureAt(chunkX << 4, 0, chunkZ << 4);
if (this.villageGenerator.generateStructuresInChunk(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, bb))
{
// Sets maximum lake height to 8 below ground level
maxLakeHeight = lakeGroundLevel - 8;
generatedVillage = true;
}
Does anyone know why Mojang isn't doing an End Update, since its probably the most requested update?
Considering the End has already been updated (There weren't End Islands or End Cities upon release), it's probably not seen as a priority internally at Mojang. People can request things all they want, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen any time soon, if at all.
Outside of that, if they are working on an update for the End, they probably want it to be unique and not a Copy/paste of the Nether update. They'll likely want things to fit in the lore of the game, whatever that may look like.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, hold up, rewind, That's not even possible.
Using the ignore feature here is kinda weird.
True
They also said they would think about adding new dimensions WHEN all the current ones got updated. So hopefully in 1.22 or soon we get a end update
Ideally, 1.22 would be the End Update, but I'm not gonna hold out hope for it. In all likelihood, 1.22 is gonna update a few things like Pillagers and raid mechanics further (Bad omen in a bottle for a more controllable Raid experience was a great change), and maybe add a few more new blocks here and there, even changing or adding recipes for current items. Mind you, this is just me personally speculating pretty wildly with no actual proof so I very well could be wrong on it all.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, hold up, rewind, That's not even possible.
Using the ignore feature here is kinda weird.
I hope 1.22 is a focused and big update, regardless of if it's an end update or not. I do want an end update perhaps most of all, but I'd be happy if it's not as long whatever it is is more focused on a theme. I have no problems with 1.19 or 1.20, but they felt complementary rather than something on their own. And don't get wrong, we need updates like that, but after a string of them, I'd like something more akin to 1.13 through 1.18 for a change. I definitely could have lived without 1.21 though. I think the mace is absurd, and there's a major problem with structures being so common, and seeing ancient cities, trial chambers, and strongholds overlapping is just so bad. If I ever encountered that in person (especially if one of them was an ancient city), it'd seriously take me out of the mood. The game needs to do something to prevent structures from overlapping or being so close. Reducing them would also go a ways towards helping (but they need limitations to prevent close placement or overlapping even if they are reduced). We had a structure frequency issue five or more major versions ago, and it just... keeps... getting... worse.
In reality, structures WOULD collide underground when in state of ruins, which is true for at least two of the three you described here. That said, sharing a spawn type like temples used to do and how bastions/fortresses do now would work.
This essentially, The End is the final point of the 'progression' so it needs to be designed with some vague lore idea and not just coolness like side quests. This higher standard makes it more of a chore to update. The End's design is also very consistently barren and sparse, so the center island and dragon fight would have to change in parity and that means eons of bugtesting for the dragon ai.
I'm not sure what you mean.
Collide? What's colliding?
The structures just generate. Nothing suggests they collide. If they did, such as from a quake or something, they'd probably be collapsed and/or ruined beyond recognition and not not intact and awkwardly overwriting one another. But even if you're considering "maybe lore" reasons, those are up to interpretation, and shouldn't be used to excuse bad design. The reason it's this way is simply because Mojang has littered the world with structures, and there's no checks in place to prevent them from overlapping.
So I don't know about structures colliding due to being in ruin, but I can see things interacting with each other over thousands of years due to shifting earth. If I'm not mistaken, the Earth's Crust does shift a few millimeters every year. You could apply that logic to structures in game that have intersected each other the way they have.
The center island where you fight the dragon, probably shouldn't change in appearance or add anything new. It's the Outer Islands that should be updated and changed to include possible new biomes and blocks. Bugs should obviously be fixed when and if possible, as should broken AI.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me three times, hold up, rewind, That's not even possible.
Using the ignore feature here is kinda weird.
It would be very easy for Mojang to prevent structures from generating on top of each other, I mean I've done it myself; a particularly notable example being mineshafts; I've found stuff like this in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4):
A screenshot from another mineshaft complex; what is even going on here?!
A map from ChunkBase (when it still supported 1.6); the darkest dots are the central rooms of mineshafts, surrounded by shading corresponding to their typical extent; very few mineshafts are isolated at all and many are only a couple chunks apart, indicating extensive overlap (some may still be at different altitudes):
This is because, unlike all other large structures, mineshafts are placed randomly with no minimum spacing (they can even be in directly adjacent chunks, with several cases in the examples shown above) and all the decrease in mineshaft frequency in 1.7 did was make this less likely; I changed it so they generate aligned to a grid like other structures and if they do overlap it is only at the very outermost fringes:
Not only that, strongholds prevent mineshafts, and most caves, from generating nearby; those massive caves in my mod? You'll never, ever find a stronghold or a mineshaft in the middle of one, (they can intersect to some degree since it would be totally unfun if no underground features ever intersected so they were all completely isolated from each other, just not like this (a common sight in vanilla 1.6.4, and one of the few things that led to me to actually modify world generation in my otherwise vanilla first world to prevent; this is easy to do with the "old caves", as opposed to "noise caves", since they generate as separate entities, rather than just random terrain, thus I can count and/or measure the sizes of each cave within an area and use that to decide if a mineshaft can generate).
That said, Mojang simply closes issues regarding this as "works as intended", aka "we are too lazy to try to fix or at least improve this":
MC-59365 Overlapping Generated Structures
This also includes structures like desert temples on top of villages, which should absolutely not occur, and which I fixed myself, or lakes generating within villages (this did not occur prior to 1.13 and is likely a major reason why water lakes were removed but the much rarer lava lakes can still do so; at least the relevant issue was not closed as WAI):
MC-81467 Parts of structures replaced by lava lakes
Some of the code I use, though the multithreaded world generation in 1.13 (which shouldn't be necessary if the game were properly optimized, just use a single dedicated thread, not one per chunk) makes this quite problematic, hence why the vanilla check for lakes stopped working (vanilla simply disabled them entirely while I allow them to generate underground; lakes themselves check for blocks like stone bricks in order to avoid generating in strongholds and dungeons):
// Checks if structure could intersect a village so they do not collide return !this.hasVillages || !this.villageGenerator.hasStructureAt(chunkX << 4, 0, chunkZ << 4); if (this.villageGenerator.generateStructuresInChunk(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, bb)) { // Sets maximum lake height to 8 below ground level maxLakeHeight = lakeGroundLevel - 8; generatedVillage = true; }TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?