Personally, I just avoid the things I don't like. Like in 1.20, the trails ruins stuff I haven't touched yet. I intend to get a sniffer eventually, but that aside, I have no real desire to go for the archeology-like stuff. And that's fine. I don't expect to like every single change to the game. For everything I don't care about, there's usually stuff I do care about. Cherry biomes and their related stuff. Bamboo wood. Hanging signs. Mud stone. Deep dark and ancient cities. Basically everything about 1.18 (including 1.17). This is all the stuff I did love about recent updates.
Interesting. I can understand that somebod likes the cherry trees, although I feel like the stems are very dark, but mudstone and deep dark, really? I find ancient cities interesting, but scary and too... well dark. I really dislike the deepslate, although I do like the big caves. I mainly like the nether update or let's say - parts of it - but even with good developments like the neter, I honestly miss the simplicity of the old nether. Finding a bastion now takes forever, going somewhere in the nether is tough... it looks and sounds great, but it feels like playing a completely different game, nether just go too realistic in my eyes. It used to be about ghasts annoying you, lava and ugly netherrack haha... it was cool that you could lite it on fire and it burns forever... the coolest thing was the bastion.
When they added wither skeletons, the previously quiet, spooky, abondoned bastions became kind of like a pillager outpost, something you don't explore, but have to fight in again... Now it's about piglins, and wear gold and this and that... I just feel it's too much and despite having such a beautiful nether, I avoid it most of the times. How could it be that something less beautiful gave me more peace? Well, it's not all about beauty. Same for the caves. I loved stone and cobblestone. Gave me peace. The big deepslate caves look amazing, but I don't wanna play and mine in them. Everything got really dark and creepy in minecraft in my opinion.
Cherry trees might be the first thing added that are going into a more peaceful direction and I also think it's a great building block for female players that can use it instead of pink concrete now. The trails and sniffers I will ignore even more than turtles. Not only do I avoid them, I might even downgrade minecraft if this becomes a thing, cause honestly it makes me cringe a bit that this would be part of vanilla. A sniffer in minecraft should a mod at best, it has nothing to do in vanilla minecraft. There are no sniffers in the real word too. It's not like a chicken or pig.
I agree with that take on the new Nether. I know everyone loved it but I really don't care for it at all. It made large swathes of the new Nether no-go areas for me. Crimson Forest and Soul Sand Valley are both nope, Basalt Delta is a double nope. It's not that I can't take care of myself in those areas (I play on hard), I just find trying to travel around in them incredibly annoying and avoid them as far as possible. I guess that was the intention of the update, but it's effectively shrunk the Nether for me, not expanded it.
Re Bastions: You mean piglin brutes not wither skeletons, I assume?
Yeah, having to remember to change into gold armor or be harassed is another moderate annoyance. Actually, that's how I'd describe the entire Nether Update for myself: "a moderate annoyance".
Interesting. I can understand that somebod likes the cherry trees, although I feel like the stems are very dark, but mudstone and deep dark, really?
You're the second person to sort of make me feel in the minority for liking mudstone so I guess it isn't popular, huh?
It's funny because yes I do find it nice. I used it for the first time in one of my worlds to build a temple/shrine with quartz and dark oak fences and found the combination very pleasing, and while testing stuff in a creative world recently, I found I might actually use it (with it's accompanying mangrove wood) for stuff in my currently active world instead of the planned bamboo builds (or maybe I do both, my plans can change a lot).
And yes, I love the deep dark and ancient cities. If anything I wish the biome/ancient city/warden was a bit "more" (basically meaning harder) but a reason they are "missing potential" is less to do with them and more to do with the game around them. Namely, stuff like night vision potions/the game renders stuff with a light level of 0 (raising the brightness makes stuff very visible, and even at moody stuff is visible), it renders the darkness more moot. But yes I feel like it was a welcome addition despite the way things are. Something I love doing is clearing an ancient city with shaders to make things with a light level of 0 truly Black along with some other restrictions (basically "no cheesing things"). It does turn the experience into one of attrition, where I'm often waiting out a warning time expiration so it can really make it take long, and I understand that isn't for everyone, but it's how I personally like to play and approach them.
It sounds like you mostly miss the game when it was more lacking (or simple, for lack of better words), and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people like beta 1.7.3 too. I personally loved the nether update (might be the second best update for me, and community-wise I think it'd probably rank as the first?), and I hope we see a end update of a similar style in the future.
Yeah, having to remember to change into gold armor or be harassed is another moderate annoyance. Actually, that's how I'd describe the entire Nether Update for myself: "a moderate annoyance".
I think it was great, though. Let's be honest... gold was never going to be useful as armor. Its lone advantage of "enchants better" doesn't matter with how low on the totem pole it is in defense and especially durability (and the enchanting table/enchanting system itself needs addressed, which is why the upcoming villager changes are a step in the right direction, but are going to go over disastrously with the community because right now they are serving as a bandage for something else and that something else isn't being addressed too).
So this gave it a niche use. They did the same thing with leather boots for mountains. I simply swap to a Gold helmet whenever I'm making nether trips and it's never bothered me. If anything I'd like to see more of this (to a point, obviously overdoing it is very bad) because right now, we can have a single good "catch all" armor set and that's it. While that works to a point, giving gold and leather some extra use is nice, and turtle helmets are the other one that feel useless because respiration (and water breathing potions) exists.
Enchantments and potions are so broken and I don't think many players realize it. Worse, I fear Mojang is balancing the game around them because in my recent world where I pout both off limits, things feel rough. But it feels balanced poorly in that without them, you're a bit lacking, and with them, you're invincible. No middle ground.
You're the second person to sort of make me feel in the minority for liking mudstone so I guess it isn't popular, huh? It's funny because yes I do find it nice. I used it for the first time in one of my worlds to build a temple/shrine with quartz and dark oak fences and found the combination very pleasing, and while testing stuff in a creative world recently, I found I might actually use it (with it's accompanying mangrove wood) for stuff in my currently active world instead of the planned bamboo builds (or maybe I do both, my plans can change a lot).
I don't really mind what is popular and what isn't. Fortnite is popular too, doesn't mean I like it. Also I didn't really think of new blocks in terms of building materials - concerning that you could also argue that copper is a nice implementation. I argue in terms of overall usage, mining experience, building block and everything as a whole. I used mudstone in combination with dirt - but that's not the point. Overall I wouldn't miss it.
And yes, I love the deep dark and ancient cities. If anything I wish the biome/ancient city/warden was a bit "more" (basically meaning harder) but a reason they are "missing potential" is less to do with them and more to do with the game around them. Namely, stuff like night vision potions/the game renders stuff with a light level of 0 (raising the brightness makes stuff very visible, and even at moody stuff is visible), it renders the darkness more moot. But yes I feel like it was a welcome addition despite the way things are. Something I love doing is clearing an ancient city with shaders to make things with a light level of 0 truly Black along with some other restrictions (basically "no cheesing things"). It does turn the experience into one of attrition, where I'm often waiting out a warning time expiration so it can really make it take long, and I understand that isn't for everyone, but it's how I personally like to play and approach them.
Exactly because it isn't for everyone it should be a mod and not included in vanilla minecraft. Consider people just wanting to stripmine for diamonds and always be worried of hitting a deep dark biome. Not only is it scary for some, it can also be annoying. You have to be on the same level for stripmining as an ancient city is.
It sounds like you mostly miss the game when it was more lacking (or simple, for lack of better words), and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people like beta 1.7.3 too. I personally loved the nether update (might be the second best update for me, and community-wise I think it'd probably rank as the first?), and I hope we see a end update of a similar style in the future
I wouldn't just say that I miss it. I am concerned about the core of minecraft and unsatisfied with what is getting implemented, while other stuff gets ignored for a decade. One example: They still have not included the opportunity to connect minecarts to a train or to auto-craft things like in the mods railcraft or buildcraft - nothing of it to be exact. They have not improved the compass or maps of minecraft. A lot of work could be done here. But they did implement an endless amount of new biomes and mobs. Some of those mobs were part of a mod called Mo's Creation. Not everybody wanted turtles, rabbits, polar bears and fish - so it was a mod. I don't mind if they implement stuff from mods, but I do care when they implement stuff for one group, but they forget about another huge group of minecrafters who focus on pvp, redstone or mining.
I think it was great, though. Let's be honest... gold was never going to be useful as armor. Its lone advantage of "enchants better" doesn't matter with how low on the totem pole it is in defense and especially durability (and the enchanting table/enchanting system itself needs addressed, which is why the upcoming villager changes are a step in the right direction, but are going to go over disastrously with the community because right now they are serving as a bandage for something else and that something else isn't being addressed too).
So this gave it a niche use. They did the same thing with leather boots for mountains. I simply swap to a Gold helmet whenever I'm making nether trips and it's never bothered me. If anything I'd like to see more of this (to a point, obviously overdoing it is very bad) because right now, we can have a single good "catch all" armor set and that's it. While that works to a point, giving gold and leather some extra use is nice, and turtle helmets are the other one that feel useless because respiration (and water breathing potions) exists.
Gold was never useful in any way besides powered rails, golden apples and just showing off. Making it useful in the nether felt forced. Same applies to turtles and countless other mobs. They are in fact useless. Some like watching them for a split second, but that's it. Back in the days when there were only cows and pigs, every mob was useful - you could breed them, eat them, sell their stuff. Nobody cares about a rabbit foot or sth like that. You cannot just give things a use by implementing something new on top, as the game needs to balance as a whole. You are only going to end up with even more useless things. I don't wanna swap helmets going into the nether. Fine if it isn't bothering you, but it is bothering others. I find it to be annoying. By the way - the nether update IS great, but I feel like it doesn't exactly belong into this game, as it is too good. Minecraft lives by an image of incomplete pixel style. The nether feels like actual hell out of a professional game of this niche.
Enchantments and potions are so broken and I don't think many players realize it. Worse, I fear Mojang is balancing the game around them because in my recent world where I pout both off limits, things feel rough. But it feels balanced poorly in that without them, you're a bit lacking, and with them, you're invincible. No middle ground.
I realised that there is a huge problem with enchantments and XP. Also villager trades ruined the whole dynamic somehow. An upside is: At least you can get XP in a peaceful way now too, for example through friendly mobs, oven, automated farms, which is an improvement, the mob sounds in mob farms used to annoy me a lot.
I agree with that take on the new Nether. I know everyone loved it but I really don't care for it at all. It made large swathes of the new Nether no-go areas for me. Crimson Forest and Soul Sand Valley are both nope, Basalt Delta is a double nope. It's not that I can't take care of myself in those areas (I play on hard), I just find trying to travel around in them incredibly annoying and avoid them as far as possible. I guess that was the intention of the update, but it's effectively shrunk the Nether for me, not expanded it.
This. I couldn't agree more with the sentence: "I has effectively shrunk the Nether for me, not expanded it"
I think those areas could be visited more easily with for example at least an elytra. A fundamental problem is: You get the elytra at the END of the game, after beating the enderdragon and to get there you need to get the blaze rods FIRST - meaning: you need to explore the nether with its endless difficult biomes and never ending lava, huge caves in order to being able to explore it in a comfortable way.
The bastions are as secret and hidden as possible. I actually got into spectator mode and got lost in the nether trying to find one - that's how far away it was. Couldn't find my way back. There was a joke in the old days to better not get lost in the nether - only if we would have known how serious this would get. Now getting lost in the nether is actually a real thing...
I have to say the warped forest looks beautiful, but I see no point in this beauty. I wouldn't really know how to use those materials in the overworld. It's all just a show and it makes the normal gameplay annoying. I'd like to explore those things on a voluntarily basis, not be forced to it. I think what they are trying to do here is slowly turning an open world game into a story based game with a clear forced path and I don't like that. Wish I knew why they are doing this.
I realised that there is a huge problem with enchantments and XP. Also villager trades ruined the whole dynamic somehow. An upside is: At least you can get XP in a peaceful way now too, for example through friendly mobs, oven, automated farms, which is an improvement, the mob sounds in mob farms used to annoy me a lot.
It sounds like the biggest issue you have is with mob farms, which I fully agree with - everybody just wants to automate everything instead of taking the time to collect resources and XP, and worst of all, Mojang is feeding this playstyle, even reverting nerfs to farms because it "upset certain influential players".
Example:
1.8 14w03a Iron golems now drop only iron ingots when killed by the player, either through combat, potions, or player-activated mechanisms such as manually lit TNT. If killed without player intervention, they now drop only poppies.
14w04a The previous change has been reverted; iron golems always drop iron ingots again.
This is even more insane - intentionally undoing a bugfix - not to mention the bug they exploit had been known (reported) since a few weeks after it appeared during the development of 1.8 and never should have made it to release, months later (I honestly can't understand Mojang's bug-fixing policy; 1.20.2 is fixing some silly "bugs" like "player burnt to a crisp" as being "incorrect American English", while important issues like mobs glitching into walls have been ignored for a decade, despite numerous fixes given)::
The other week, the aggro bugs were brought up for discussion, and we decided that while we could fix the aggro bugs, they were also linked to the XP glitch, and that it is too late in the cycle to change that - so the task at hand was "fix aggro, make sure to not break farms". Obviously that didn't happen either, and as a result we're going to fix it by basically adding back the glitch.
I not only implemented this change in my own mod but went further to make only melee attacks count as a player kill (no splash potions, TNT, etc), and all other mobs that drop some sort of resource only do so when killed by a player (if not directly, with the exception of Looting and bows, where I fixed the still-unfixed bug where you can hold a Looting sword while using a bow to get the Looting effect. An interesting exception to Looting only working with melee attacks is deflected Ghast fireballs, due to the difficulty of doing so and directly attacking a Ghast).
Spawn chunks? Completely unnecessary and enables farms to continue working no matter where you are in a world (they might have some benefit on large multiplayer servers where people always join at a certain location, avoiding the need to keep reloading the spawn area, otherwise, players who join elsewhere will need chunks to be loaded anyway). I permanently disabled them after initial world creation (another bonus is the reduction in memory/resource usage; you'd be amazed at how little memory older versions, even as heavily modded as TMCW, may need, though this is only a small factor).
While I did not directly nerf XP drops I did reduce the rate at which mobs spawn by a factor of 4, and up to 12 if the mob cap can't be kept more than half full, which can severely hurt mob farms while having no impact on normal gameplay (IIRC serves like Spigot do something similar; performance was one of the main reasons I made this change); mobs spawned from mob spawners will stop dropping XP and items if too many spawn too quickly, with a cooldown before drops are re-enabled (they do spawn mobs much faster as my intent was to make them more of a threat, than "spawn 1-2 zombies every 30 seconds" - in vanilla I've run into a dungeon filled with skeletons only to find it was actually a zombie dungeon).
Also, why can you still break bedrock? Just add the following code to the "Chunk.setBlock" method and problem solved ("canRemoveBedrock" is set to true when a player in Creative mode breaks a block, allowing them to break it; the debug stacktrace enables following code execution to the offending code that tried to replace it - I'd surely hope that Mojang has thought of doing the same thing when debugging issues):
if (oldBlock == BlockStates.bedrock && !this.isRemote && !canRemoveBedrock)
{
if (DebugHelper.DEBUG_MINECRAFT) new Exception("An attempt was made to replace bedrock!").printStackTrace();
return false;
}
I also made it so mobs can never spawn above the Nether ceiling, since what is the point? Mobs also only despawn based on horizontal distance, reduced from 128 to 96 blocks, but still leaving a huge area to spawnproof since it doesn't matter how high up you are and there are over twice the volume of caves underground (vs vanilla 1.6.4), as well as more "normal" caves in the Nether (they do still randomly despawn outside of a 32 block radius sphere). I did make a change that can be helpful though, mobs on the surface at night do not detract from the "cave mob cap" (an idea taken from Bedrock Edition; the main intent of this change was to make the mob experience while caving more consistent throughout the day, with the result that I regularly kill about 50% more mobs).
Also, whenever I bring up the ease of obtaining resources manually, even to just repair their gear (as you had to before 1.9) a lot of people just tell me, "well, yeah, you spend all your time caving" and try to imply that they'd have to spend literally all their time collecting resources even though I use barely anything of what I collect (I don't think they can grasp the magnitude of numbers like 10,000 either; for perspective, the amount of iron I collected in the 30 day period shown below was enough to make 1,000 sets of iron armor and nobody is going through 30+ a day; a similar difference applies to diamond, and I didn't even use Fortune (these numbers are blocks mined):
On this subject, the change to reduce air exposure in caves was simply terrible; I see no significant difference in resource collection rates across all of my worlds, including modded worlds with far more and larger caves than vanilla (as the above was from, "vanilla" meaning 1.6.4 of course); the following was from a 30 day period on my last modded world, mostly differing in the amount of mineshaft-related items due to mineshafts being less common, further offset by a relatively greater volume of caves (measurements of ore exposure indicate about 30% more exposed ore per chunk, which is a meaningless statistic by itself. I also suspect that Mojang expects you to be using Night Vision when caving, eliminating a lot of the factors that offset the increased ore exposure in larger caves (having to light them up, including pillaring up to the ceiling without even knowing if there is anything up there):
Exactly because it isn't for everyone it should be a mod and not included in vanilla minecraft. Consider people just wanting to stripmine for diamonds and always be worried of hitting a deep dark biome. Not only is it scary for some, it can also be annoying. You have to be on the same level for stripmining as an ancient city is.
I disagree with this. If they only add stuff if it is for everyone then they will simply never be adding anything.
I don't think people realize this to the extent it is true, but the community is massive. This isn't 2011 anymore, or even 2013, when the community was already very big. The range of opinions today is unbelievably vast and there's going to be things some people want that others don't want, and vice versa.
There's no problem with the deep dark biomes because of stripmining. Yes, you can run into one doing so. You also get ample warnings, and there's also ample space underground to do so without it being an issue.
I don't agree that something is bad for the game just because it can add risks or changes to another gameplay possibility. Strip mining isn't largely impacted, and it isn't the only way to get resources. It's still the most efficient and safest even with said deep dark biome existing, so what is the problem? You can never be changing anything at that rate.
But they did implement an endless amount of new biomes and mobs. Some of those mobs were part of a mod called Mo's Creation. Not everybody wanted turtles, rabbits, polar bears and fish - so it was a mod.
I have to disagree here, too.
Many players love the ambiance that new biomes and new mobs add. It's something people have been asking for since the beginning. It literally shows what I said above; some people want things and some others want different things. You'd have complaining either way.
I never liked the argument that because mods exist, it justifies leaving things out of the game. That's actually awful.
I prefer to play with as few mods as possible. Mods come with caveats and ties. They tie that world to that mod. Some people want things but don't want to be tied down to mods. Mods are great, mind you. They're a massive benefit of the game and its community, but it's not like we should skip adding things to the game itself and deferring that entirely to mods. Some people have the opinion that the base game should merely be a bare-as-can-be framework where mods serve as optional plug-ins of sorts. I disagree with this. Having that actually work as easily and as well as people think it will seems incredibly unlikely as well.
Same applies to turtles and countless other mobs. They are in fact useless.
Turtles are only useless outside ambiance because respiration and water breathing potions exist and are so broken. The time duration on those two things needs a massive hit, and the underwater breathing granted by turtle helmets needs massively increased in place of that. In other words, move the water breathing to turtle helmets.
This would encourage making a turtle helmet for real underwater adventures/trips, while still offering limited options before you get the turtle helmet (or to boost it further). Right now, the enchantment is too much of a free stat boost (which I disagree with) and the extended water breathing potions are way too long.
So many things in this game could benefit from being rebalanced in my own opinion, but the community constantly cries when nerfs happen, so... here we are. Things become useless because broken things exist, and new things can't be added unless they're more broken or else they become useless. And then over times things get worthless. It would be healthy if the game gets rebalanced which is why I'm watching the upcoming villager change with anticipation.
Some like watching them for a split second, but that's it. Back in the days when there were only cows and pigs, every mob was useful
I don't know... to me even just between chickens, pigs, and cows, there was a clear better one back then (and it was cows). Pigs sort of had a lesser use since they were easier to breed once carrots were added, but late game, it is always going to come down to one. Chickens had a use for arrows but for food, I was always doing cows.
That said, rabbits definitely feel like they're lacking use. They are rare (so even an ambiance they aren't doing so good), have a niche use (drop is only useful for potions and a nichhe one in my opinion?), and having more uses as pets would be neat. Always seems sad that half the times I find one, they go to run away, hope down and fall and die in one jump of a distance shorter than I would expect to kill them, and then I have to listen to the sad but awkward noise they make.
You cannot just give things a use by implementing something new on top, as the game needs to balance as a whole. You are only going to end up with even more useless things.
I agree with the second part, as I said above. The game needs rebalanced because the current balance is part of what is causing issues.
I disagree that you can't give things use by adding new features. That's sort of what they need to be justified as new things, no?
I don't wanna swap helmets going into the nether. Fine if it isn't bothering you, but it is bothering others. I find it to be annoying. By the way - the nether update IS great, but I feel like it doesn't exactly belong into this game, as it is too good. Minecraft lives by an image of incomplete pixel style. The nether feels like actual hell out of a professional game of this niche.
Everything is bothering someone though, honestly.
The nether update feels great to me and I'm pretty sure the community considers it one of the best updates (possibly the best one) to the game.
That's not to say you're wrong if you're not one of the ones who likes it. I've disliked a few popular updates, and I've also liked a few unpopular ones. Just how it goes, and I'm fine with it. More people liking something is just an "appeal to the masses" reasoning rather than a reason why it's good itself, but there's a lot of reasons a lot of people find the nether update great. At the end of the day though, with a community as large and split as Minecraft is, additions will likely tend to cater to a majority rather than what nobody will dislike, because the community is so vast that any additions will be disliked by a not insignificant amount of people, so the latter is impossible to achieve. In other words, it's impossible to please everyone. Best to try and please as many and upset as little as possible.
In other words, it's impossible to please everyone. Best to try and please as many and upset as little as possible.
They should at least remove phantoms, which more than 50% of players dislike, but they don't. They only keep adding and adding and never removing things that were simply a bad decision. The game is floated with: too many items (pun intended)
Phantoms are one of the things that I would agree on though and seem to be mixed at best, if not unpopular. I wouldn't mind seeing it changed.
I like the mob itself, but not so much its purpose or implementation, even if I often avoid it by sleeping. I think the intent was to have something in the overworld that allowed for more accessible repairing of elytra.
If an end update occurs, I feel like it would better belong there. I think they were originally going to do that, but changed their mind given how difficult/threatening it would be without an elytra there?
I don't know... to me even just between chickens, pigs, and cows, there was a clear better one back then (and it was cows). Pigs sort of had a lesser use since they were easier to breed once carrots were added, but late game, it is always going to come down to one. Chickens had a use for arrows but for food, I was always doing cows.
They might be referring to how things were before Beta 1.8; only pigs dropped food back then so cows were only a source of leather and milk (only useful for cake as there were no potions/status effects yet); likewise, chickens only dropped eggs and feathers, and the latter wasn't a unique drop as zombies also dropped feathers (instead of rotten flesh). This is not unlike how sheep only dropped wool until release 1.8. Animals couldn't be bred either (eggs spawned adult chickens as there were no baby animals); you simply waited for them to spawn (and despawn) like hostile mobs, with the same spawn rate (every tick instead of every 400 ticks).
Let me derail this conversation by going back to what the video is about. Yes, there's too many structures. It's just as exciting as finding a coffe bar in Italy: you can't throw a rock without hitting one. But I wish this was the only problem. There's worse.
First, the risk/reward ratio is all over the place. Most structure are unguarded and easy to enter, so totally accessible to an early player, but are full with loot that can make them skip to mid game instantly. Why? Others are guarded but with worse loot; like, who wants to secure a spawner just to get another saddle when there's shipwrecks full of gems all around? It's pathetic how all the treasure you can find in dungeons is the infinite XPs you get from the spawner itself, the worst case of risk/reward ratio there is, probably. Think of all the things you need to do to conquer an Ocean Monument and then wonder if getting some sponges was worth it.
Then, lack of variety. They're all the same. They tried adding some variety with villages, abandoned Nether portals and shipwrecks but it's just eye-candy, the challenge they offer is the same, if there's any. Most structures don't require the player to get better at something, it's always the same: get in, grab stuff, get out. The only exception aside from dungeons (get in, light the place, yadda yadda) is the Ancient Cities, but we go back to point 1: the risk/reward ratio is almost ridiculous, with the most dangerous mob requiring to master an unique mechanics, guarding one of the most borderline useless loot.
The only structures that makes sense, in my opinion, are Nether Bastions and End Cities. They both require some thought and skill, and the loot is a little OP but not too much considering the effort required to get there. I wish they remade all structures learning their own lessons from the above two. I don't believe anyone would complain.
First, the risk/reward ratio is all over the place.
Then, lack of variety. They're all the same.
The only structures that makes sense, in my opinion, are Nether Bastions and End Cities.
I agree 100%. Well said. You might think: Why are Nether Bastions and even End Cities more balanced? Because they are older. The nether and the end have been slightly expanded. Blazes already exist forever now. New mobs like the wither skeleton don't change much. You have a reason to go there, not just for loot chests. The area is exciting to some degree. When we think about shipwrecks of the ocean update or some random generated structures in the overworld, there are not exciting. They could have made it exciting by making more shipwrecks with only some having loot, others having dangerous sharks swimming in them. They could have made pyramids with interesting dangerous paths and traps like you find them in countless adventure maps - but no they did always the same beginner tnt trap that couldn't be more visible and easy to avoid. Minecraft allows so much more and they don't use it. In my opinion they should either add stuff in a good way or just don't. There is no problem in keeping minecraft simple.
Let me derail this conversation by going back to what the video is about. Yes, there's too many structures. It's just as exciting as finding a coffe bar in Italy: you can't throw a rock without hitting one. But I wish this was the only problem. There's worse.
First, the risk/reward ratio is all over the place. Most structure are unguarded and easy to enter, so totally accessible to an early player, but are full with loot that can make them skip to mid game instantly. Why? Others are guarded but with worse loot; like, who wants to secure a spawner just to get another saddle when there's shipwrecks full of gems all around? It's pathetic how all the treasure you can find in dungeons is the infinite XPs you get from the spawner itself, the worst case of risk/reward ratio there is, probably. Think of all the things you need to do to conquer an Ocean Monument and then wonder if getting some sponges was worth it.
Then, lack of variety. They're all the same. They tried adding some variety with villages, abandoned Nether portals and shipwrecks but it's just eye-candy, the challenge they offer is the same, if there's any. Most structures don't require the player to get better at something, it's always the same: get in, grab stuff, get out. The only exception aside from dungeons (get in, light the place, yadda yadda) is the Ancient Cities, but we go back to point 1: the risk/reward ratio is almost ridiculous, with the most dangerous mob requiring to master an unique mechanics, guarding one of the most borderline useless loot.
The only structures that makes sense, in my opinion, are Nether Bastions and End Cities. They both require some thought and skill, and the loot is a little OP but not too much considering the effort required to get there. I wish they remade all structures learning their own lessons from the above two. I don't believe anyone would complain.
I agree with this.
The balance is all over with the game, and I think it could use a pass on a lot of stuff like that. The problem is, this would likely take away a lot of development time (whether it should or not) and an "update" of rebalancing will likely go over poorly with the modern community. I'm hoping the villager changes are a part of a bigger pass that they're spreading out over time, but time will tell. Because while there's improvements being made with these changes in my opinion, they also don't solve a lot of the real issues that made exploiting trades necessary in the first place.
One specific one I disagree on is ancient cities and end cities. The former is fine to me, but I suppose that might be bias because I like them for the experience alone (the loot makes them worthwhile too in my opinion), and I don't cheese them. If you want to approach them as efficiently as possible, even if that means cheesing them, end cities can have the same said about them though. If you already have an elytra, they're super easy, and even if you don't, pillaring/ender pearls gets you one. They're still challenging yes but you can cheese them as well.
Bastions are sort of the actual hard one, but a gold helmet minimizes a lot of the threat within it (until you open a chest or attack one they are passive, but this still lets you attack them freely before they retaliate). That leaves the the hoglins and the piglin brute, which is unaffected by the shiny lure, and the latter of which is the sole reason bastion remnants are really hard. Maybe frustratingly so in some players' opinions.
I think you're overlooking (or perhaps forgetting due to how rare they are?) woodland mansions. Yes, the raids make totems more accessible but that was also sort of necessary. Again, the structure and experience of it is still there and I find they're sort of like bastions in that they're challenging and justified. This is actually one that is maybe slightly too rare but I'd rather other structures be rarer like this than have them littered everywhere.
Ocean monuments are great but a bit too common, and yes not worth the effort. I didn't even know what a conduit was or did until after I had already done one. I think the gold is a nice reward though, but probably not enough. Perhaps chests full of gold too, and make the monuments rarer to compensate.
I honestly don't have much issue with most of the structures themselves (though refreshing some old ones with revamps would be welcome). I also don't mind them adding even more. But they definitely need to tone the frequency of like all of them (well, almost all of them) way, way down, and sometimes way, way, way, way down (looking at you, villages, but add shipwrecks, ruined portal, and ocean ruins to this). I get they don't want things to possibly take too long to find, but here's the thing.
Seeds are always RNG, so anyone who really wants a village by spawn can search one out.
But mostly it'll put some exploration and gameplay back into the very early game.
The funny thing is the terrain generation since 1.7 encourages exploring over larger distances now, but the structures seemed balanced as though you'll get a lot even if you don't. They contrast in feel.
The funny thing is the terrain generation since 1.7 encourages exploring over larger distances now, but the structures seemed balanced as though you'll get a lot even if you don't. They contrast in feel.
As I've mentioned before, this is largely because of the changes to biome generation in 1.7 and even more so 1.18, and its impacts on playstyles - the same insanely huge biomes (or clusters of very similar biomes, which make the actual biome size irrelevant) across vast distances, far exceeding the average spacing between structures (512 blocks), which led to an average of one structure every 4-5 biomes (where "biome" refers to a 256 chunk area (on average, less when factoring in sub-biomes, e.g. desert temples but not villages can generate in Desert Hills), as the game used to define each "cell" at the biome scale).
In fact, the next update to TMCW is actually making most structures more common, though only on the default world type and a new "oceanic" world type, they will be less common (per area) on larger biome sizes (keep in mind though that Large Biomes has 16 times the area of default, so even the lowest chance of 0.4 means 6.4 times the chance per biome; I'm tempted to make it even lower but the areal frequency becomes quite ridiculous, even considering somebody who explores the surface for fun, of course, TMCW doesn't have elytra and horses are unfeasible given the often rugged terrain, so you are pretty much limited to on foot. Said terrain, and much larger trees (up to 64 blocks tall) in various biomes, also limits visibility, and most structures will not generate on mountains so being able to see distant mountains doesn't help spot them):
Increased frequency of many structures to be closer to vanilla (land areas only) or more likely to generate in steep terrain; the spacing was increased on Medium and Large Biomes to offset the fact there is a lot more space per biome, while they are more common on Oceanic to offset the reduction in land coverage:
Structure Vanilla Old New Ratio Medium Large Oceanic
Village 5760 5587 5587 2.12 0.716 0.538 1.34
Desert temple 10365 9723 9723 1.78 0.735 0.563 1.44
Jungle temple 11472 16549 13405 3.16 0.669 0.479 1.44
Witch hut 11137 12170 10058 2.56 0.694 0.510 1.38
Igloo N/A 11176 8941 2.50 0.640 0.444 1.31
Quartz pyramids N/A 42529 * 1.67 0.605 0.405 1.36
Mansion N/A 33869 24883 2.13 0.844 0.540 1.36
Pumpkin house N/A 26616 * 2.09 0.605 0.405 1.36
* = not changed/looked at yet.
Frequencies are chunks per structure and are based on biome frequencies and success rates. Some desert temples may also fail due to collision with a village.
Ratio is the relative frequency per biome in TMCW vs vanilla (ratio for non-vanilla structures assumes the same spacing as vanilla).
Medium Large Oceanic are relative to the same area in Default (multiply Medium by 2 and Large by 4 for per-biome frequencies; Oceanic has the same biome size as Default).
Due to biome checks many structures are more likely to generate on larger biome sizes, which is factored in.
For perspective, I explore an average of 100 chunks per play session so dividing the numbers in the "vanilla" column by 100 gives the number of sessions/days between finding a structure in my first world, ranging from 2-4 months, and is consistent with finding 13 jungle temples over about 1,300 sessions (but highly variable, I've found a jungle temple and a witch hut in the past 4 months; desert temples have been unusually rare with only 6 found in total, and they have the same probability of generating and I've found plenty of deserts. I have no idea how many witch huts I've found since I never tracked them in my first world but certainly closer to 13 than 6). Also, slow exploration rate or not, I've stilt found several each of every biome that has a structure, illustrating the relatively low probability that one will actually have something..
Also, based on how people say they play Alpha and Beta versions it seems like exploration was very limited back then, pretty much just "find a good place to settle down and build"; of course, biomes were quite small and limited back then with few biome-specific resources (e.g. cactus, snow, and spruce wood, the latter only for the block itself since there was only one type of planks/other wooden blocks). As recently as 1.6.4 you could find most biomes and their resources without exploring that far (a few hundred blocks in every direction; a level 3 map was likely to have everything, land coverage permitting, with the exception of a Mushroom Island), so exploration was likely still relatively limited. Contrast that to today and most players will certainly want to explore to find a specific resource; the upcoming changes to villager trading will only further the need if you want to be able to trade for every biome-specific enchantment.
The problem is, this would likely take away a lot of development time (whether it should or not) and an "update" of rebalancing will likely go over poorly with the modern community. I'm hoping the villager changes are a part of a bigger pass that they're spreading out over time, but time will tell.
As you said, they're already dedicating lot of development to rebalancing, it keeps happening no matter how it almost always disappoint a part of the community. It's not stopping, so it might as well go in the right direction.
Just a word about the community, though: we're talking about a vocal minority here. I bet anyone would have a hard time proving the majority of players care about "trading halls" and "farming", it's mostly children who want to build and play like it was a normal game instead of Engineering 101. Every time Mojang caters to technical players they risk leaving behind the rest of them, which might switch to another game and stop giving them free advertising.
If you want to approach them as efficiently as possible, even if that means cheesing them, end cities can have the same said about them though.
Well, everybody in this game can be cheesed because it gives a lot of freedom to the player. It's inevitable. But there's a difference between almost everything being abusable by players with enough experience, and giving away free stuff to everyone. It shortcuts progress too much in a game where progress is one of the core features that distinguish it from a regular sandbox game without rules. It's like they don't want players to experience early game anymore. Why?
Also, the opposite is true: there's structures where the risk is not worth the reward. Cheesing them is the only rational solution, and that's a pity.
I think you're overlooking (or perhaps forgetting due to how rare they are?) woodland mansions.
It was not a complete dissertation about every single structure but yes, I didn't even think about those. To me, it's a mixed bag. The difficulty seems tuned around mid to late game players, but the only notable loot you can't find easier elsewhere, the Totem, is only useful in SMP because, let's be frank here, dying in SSP is not a big deal in itself and can be easily avoided by a player with enough experience to get a Totem in the first place. Basically, it shares the same problem Ancient Cities have: too hard for people who would use its reward.
But they definitely need to tone the frequency of like all of them (well, almost all of them) way, way down, and sometimes way, way, way, way down (looking at you, villages, but add shipwrecks, ruined portal, and ocean ruins to this). I get they don't want things to possibly take too long to find, but here's the thing.
Seeds are always RNG, so anyone who really wants a village by spawn can search one out.
I did a test with datapacks that simply made common structures spawn much farther from each other. Guess what: finding one was exciting, even when there was no challenge involved because it felt like being given an unexpected opportunity. I guess the problem here is servers: lot of people defiling every single thing they find. Make structures rarer and it would impossible to find one. One more reason to split SSP and SMP once and for all.
Anyway, the recent snapshot adding maps to find villages for the purpose of solving the problem with enchantments they just created, is maybe by mistake the right thing to do in this game: give tools to find structure in most interesting ways than just walking in a random direction. It would be cool if getting a map required some challenge related to progress, but I'm not hopeful about that (if they do, please make the Spyglass relevant, thanks).
As I've mentioned before, this is largely because of the changes to biome generation in 1.7 and even more so 1.18...
Well I'm not talking about what code or technical reason makes it happen. I'm just pointing out that post-1.7, the game made changes that seemed to encourage exploration more, and then structure frequency being increased worked against that (though structure frequency being so high didn't happen initially with 1.7 but rather slowly over time until it reached the current point). The structure frequency needs toned way down to just be at parity with how things were before.
I'm tired of leaving sight distance of a village and being close to finding another (on bedrock with longer render distances this has to be silly looking).
Also, based on how people say they play Alpha and Beta versions it seems like exploration was very limited back then, pretty much just "find a good place to settle down and build"...
I mean... I can believe that. The game was far more limited back then, and as much as we like to rose tint the past, it was outright way more limited. For better in some ways, maybe, but also missing some of the better things of the present in others ways.
But in a vacuum, the terrain generation from beta and before had its upsides to the one that came immediately after it, and one of those things the community had issue with it over was because it made things more repetitive. I'm not talking about release 1.7 for clarity, but beta 1.8 to release 1.6 generation.
That's sort of another example like the above. The game gives something to encourage exploration (biomes), then makes another change that feels like it contrasts that (all biomes are said to be rather repetitive). Funny thing is that's the same thing 1.7 did. More biomes, but more repetition. Seems 1.7 wasn't the first time that happened.
Just a word about the community, though: we're talking about a vocal minority here. I bet anyone would have a hard time proving the majority of players care about "trading halls" and "farming", it's mostly children who want to build and play like it was a normal game instead of Engineering 101. Every time Mojang caters to technical players they risk leaving behind the rest of them, which might switch to another game and stop giving them free advertising.
Well a minority could be anyone less than half, so technically that could be true, but I don't think stuff like farms and all that are as uncommon as using the term makes it sound. I'd say it's definitely a "not insignificant" amount of players.
Apparently they've not only withheld changes but bug fixes because farms, and this was years and years ago. Which sounds pretty crazy to me.
I did a test with datapacks that simply made common structures spawn much farther from each other. Guess what: finding one was exciting, even when there was no challenge involved because it felt like being given an unexpected opportunity.
So... about as I imagined, then.
I don't mind if a given structure carries little risk or is easy. I do mind it when they're super common, full of strong loot, and free of risk though, to where you're finding it commonly almost all of the time within easy access of spawn.
Also, if data packs can do this, it's probably easy enough to add as a game rule on world creation? They seem to be heading down the path of adding more customization with that again.
Mojang may be leery of making the game "harder" - in this case by making things like villages and shipwrecks harder to find - because of the monster backlash when they nerfed Iron Golem iron farms. That didn't even affect all that many people - I have never needed an iron farm, and they are a lot of work for something normally in surplus by the time you can build it. But boy howdy, that was a firestorm! And Mojang backed down.
Not shocked they fear a rerun with a village frequency nerf. Even if we have lots of people actively *complaining" about excessive village frequency, which we never had with Golem farms. Once burned, twice shy.
There was a huge missed brilliancy with Shipwrecks. Just put them *only* deep underwater. Just that would have made finding them really exciting, and there would be a cottage industry of YouTubes on "how to find and plunder a shipwreck".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
There was a huge missed brilliancy with Shipwrecks. Just put them *only* deep underwater. Just that would have made finding them really exciting, and there would be a cottage industry of YouTubes on "how to find and plunder a shipwreck".
Well I'm not talking about what code or technical reason makes it happen. I'm just pointing out that post-1.7, the game made changes that seemed to encourage exploration more, and then structure frequency being increased worked against that (though structure frequency being so high didn't happen initially with 1.7 but rather slowly over time until it reached the current point). The structure frequency needs toned way down to just be at parity with how things were before.
Again though, there never was any actual increase in structure frequency, other than due to changes to biome generation - I mean, this is what a Large Biomes world looked like in 1.6 - yes, all those dots are villages - absolutely everywhere within the biomes they can spawn in (which causes the clustering); with an average spacing of 512 blocks (32 chunks) you can indeed be seeing a village pretty much as soon as the previous one leaves your render distance if it is 16 or higher:
For comparison, this is from 1.10 (I used an archived version of ChunkBase which supported back to 1.6; they apparently think that nobody cares about pre-1.7 versions anymore. Note that the current page use a larger viewport and zoom in differently, making it harder to accurately get a 1:1 comparison):
Notably, there are 72 villages in the 1.6 map and 46 in the 1.10 map (yes, I did just use default for 1.10 since the scale of climate zones/biome clusters is more like what Large Biomes use to be with the situation worsening in 1.18). 1.10 is also when Taiga villages were added and biome restrictions were removed (in 1.6 a percentage of villages fail to generate due to insufficient space to place enough buildings because there are only allowed to intersect Desert and Plains. This also increases structure frequency on Large Biomes).
Examples taken from the actual seed (16 chunk render distance); all these were in the same desert to the northwest of spawn, with the nearest village almost within sight (if you just move a bit to the northwest you'll see it. I did turn off fog so that gives an additional advantage) - every single pair of villages shown can be seen from the next:
Spawn is in the Taiga at the top; the village on the left is the the village on the right in the first screenshot:
Even better, triple villages, and a double village visible within 8 chunks (I've mentioned that I found such an occurrence before, even if in a modded world with reduced spacing, as the minimum spacing of 8 chunks wasn't modified. And yes, you can even have 4 villages within a 9x9 chunk area)
The two closer villages at 8 chunk render distance:
Also, this is the only Large Biomes world I have (besides a long-lost Survival Island-type world which was mostly ocean; this world is modded but only the underground was modified); there are 8 villages, 4 in the desert and 4 more elsewhere (one is just visible at the edge of generated chunks a bit to the south of center on the left), only restricted by suitable biomes (a lot of the area to the northwest is Extreme Hills; the size of the world is 13,319 chunks, or about 4/5 of a level 4 map, and would average about 13 villages based on their average spacing and 100% of the area being valid spawn biomes):
Also, this may be the most conclusive proof that the underlying frequency has never been changed; I overlayed the world shown above on a map of 1.20, with village locations marked for clarity; this also makes it clear that biomes are indeed roughly equivalent to the original Large Biomes size, again compounded by the fact that the same few biomes (in particular, plains, desert, savanna, taiga), congregate over much larger areas, so you end up with vast numbers of villages within most of the world:
Also, if data packs can do this, it's probably easy enough to add as a game rule on world creation? They seem to be heading down the path of adding more customization with that again.
A game rule is not really fit for something like that in my opinion. It's not like it's impossible to code, it's just not what gamerules are about: tweaking mechanics, not something static like the worldgen. Anyway, I'm very skeptical about customization being more accessible. Aside from the format being so WIP it basically breaks after every version, it seems like Mojang wants us to write data packs instead of picking options in a menu. Unfortunaly writing such complex data packs with almost no documentation is a nightmare.
There was a huge missed brilliancy with Shipwrecks. Just put them *only* deep underwater. Just that would have made finding them really exciting, and there would be a cottage industry of YouTubes on "how to find and plunder a shipwreck".
That's an excellent idea because it's mid game loot, so it makes sense to require mid game challenges to get it. Now, if only making potions wasn't made so pointless by making it harder to do than getting special gear...
Again though, there never was any actual increase in structure frequency, other than due to changes to biome generation
That's part of the problem: since they always generate with the same frequency but the overall frequency of structures is not adjusted after adding more structures, each time they add a new one the place gets more crowded.
Also, they're mostly found in easy to reach places: you never have to climb a mountain because there's nothing special up there. No need to reach the (unexistent) ocean depths because you can only find Ocean Monuments and they're borderline useless. Go underground and it's always the same congerie of dungeons and mineshafts, with the new Ancient City being very optional and just rare, not hard to reach.
It's like they want anyone to be able to reach Overworld structures from day 1. No challenge, no fun, in my opinion.
Interesting. I can understand that somebod likes the cherry trees, although I feel like the stems are very dark, but mudstone and deep dark, really? I find ancient cities interesting, but scary and too... well dark. I really dislike the deepslate, although I do like the big caves. I mainly like the nether update or let's say - parts of it - but even with good developments like the neter, I honestly miss the simplicity of the old nether. Finding a bastion now takes forever, going somewhere in the nether is tough... it looks and sounds great, but it feels like playing a completely different game, nether just go too realistic in my eyes. It used to be about ghasts annoying you, lava and ugly netherrack haha... it was cool that you could lite it on fire and it burns forever... the coolest thing was the bastion.
When they added wither skeletons, the previously quiet, spooky, abondoned bastions became kind of like a pillager outpost, something you don't explore, but have to fight in again... Now it's about piglins, and wear gold and this and that... I just feel it's too much and despite having such a beautiful nether, I avoid it most of the times. How could it be that something less beautiful gave me more peace? Well, it's not all about beauty. Same for the caves. I loved stone and cobblestone. Gave me peace. The big deepslate caves look amazing, but I don't wanna play and mine in them. Everything got really dark and creepy in minecraft in my opinion.
Cherry trees might be the first thing added that are going into a more peaceful direction and I also think it's a great building block for female players that can use it instead of pink concrete now. The trails and sniffers I will ignore even more than turtles. Not only do I avoid them, I might even downgrade minecraft if this becomes a thing, cause honestly it makes me cringe a bit that this would be part of vanilla. A sniffer in minecraft should a mod at best, it has nothing to do in vanilla minecraft. There are no sniffers in the real word too. It's not like a chicken or pig.
Check out my Youtube-Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@VanillaLongplayz
I agree with that take on the new Nether. I know everyone loved it but I really don't care for it at all. It made large swathes of the new Nether no-go areas for me. Crimson Forest and Soul Sand Valley are both nope, Basalt Delta is a double nope. It's not that I can't take care of myself in those areas (I play on hard), I just find trying to travel around in them incredibly annoying and avoid them as far as possible. I guess that was the intention of the update, but it's effectively shrunk the Nether for me, not expanded it.
Re Bastions: You mean piglin brutes not wither skeletons, I assume?
Yeah, having to remember to change into gold armor or be harassed is another moderate annoyance. Actually, that's how I'd describe the entire Nether Update for myself: "a moderate annoyance".
Journals - Gregtech New Horizons | Tree Spirit Challenge [current]
You're the second person to sort of make me feel in the minority for liking mudstone so I guess it isn't popular, huh?
It's funny because yes I do find it nice. I used it for the first time in one of my worlds to build a temple/shrine with quartz and dark oak fences and found the combination very pleasing, and while testing stuff in a creative world recently, I found I might actually use it (with it's accompanying mangrove wood) for stuff in my currently active world instead of the planned bamboo builds (or maybe I do both, my plans can change a lot).
And yes, I love the deep dark and ancient cities. If anything I wish the biome/ancient city/warden was a bit "more" (basically meaning harder) but a reason they are "missing potential" is less to do with them and more to do with the game around them. Namely, stuff like night vision potions/the game renders stuff with a light level of 0 (raising the brightness makes stuff very visible, and even at moody stuff is visible), it renders the darkness more moot. But yes I feel like it was a welcome addition despite the way things are. Something I love doing is clearing an ancient city with shaders to make things with a light level of 0 truly Black along with some other restrictions (basically "no cheesing things"). It does turn the experience into one of attrition, where I'm often waiting out a warning time expiration so it can really make it take long, and I understand that isn't for everyone, but it's how I personally like to play and approach them.
It sounds like you mostly miss the game when it was more lacking (or simple, for lack of better words), and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people like beta 1.7.3 too. I personally loved the nether update (might be the second best update for me, and community-wise I think it'd probably rank as the first?), and I hope we see a end update of a similar style in the future.
I think it was great, though. Let's be honest... gold was never going to be useful as armor. Its lone advantage of "enchants better" doesn't matter with how low on the totem pole it is in defense and especially durability (and the enchanting table/enchanting system itself needs addressed, which is why the upcoming villager changes are a step in the right direction, but are going to go over disastrously with the community because right now they are serving as a bandage for something else and that something else isn't being addressed too).
So this gave it a niche use. They did the same thing with leather boots for mountains. I simply swap to a Gold helmet whenever I'm making nether trips and it's never bothered me. If anything I'd like to see more of this (to a point, obviously overdoing it is very bad) because right now, we can have a single good "catch all" armor set and that's it. While that works to a point, giving gold and leather some extra use is nice, and turtle helmets are the other one that feel useless because respiration (and water breathing potions) exists.
Enchantments and potions are so broken and I don't think many players realize it. Worse, I fear Mojang is balancing the game around them because in my recent world where I pout both off limits, things feel rough. But it feels balanced poorly in that without them, you're a bit lacking, and with them, you're invincible. No middle ground.
I don't really mind what is popular and what isn't. Fortnite is popular too, doesn't mean I like it. Also I didn't really think of new blocks in terms of building materials - concerning that you could also argue that copper is a nice implementation. I argue in terms of overall usage, mining experience, building block and everything as a whole. I used mudstone in combination with dirt - but that's not the point. Overall I wouldn't miss it.
Exactly because it isn't for everyone it should be a mod and not included in vanilla minecraft. Consider people just wanting to stripmine for diamonds and always be worried of hitting a deep dark biome. Not only is it scary for some, it can also be annoying. You have to be on the same level for stripmining as an ancient city is.
I wouldn't just say that I miss it. I am concerned about the core of minecraft and unsatisfied with what is getting implemented, while other stuff gets ignored for a decade. One example: They still have not included the opportunity to connect minecarts to a train or to auto-craft things like in the mods railcraft or buildcraft - nothing of it to be exact. They have not improved the compass or maps of minecraft. A lot of work could be done here. But they did implement an endless amount of new biomes and mobs. Some of those mobs were part of a mod called Mo's Creation. Not everybody wanted turtles, rabbits, polar bears and fish - so it was a mod. I don't mind if they implement stuff from mods, but I do care when they implement stuff for one group, but they forget about another huge group of minecrafters who focus on pvp, redstone or mining.
Gold was never useful in any way besides powered rails, golden apples and just showing off. Making it useful in the nether felt forced. Same applies to turtles and countless other mobs. They are in fact useless. Some like watching them for a split second, but that's it. Back in the days when there were only cows and pigs, every mob was useful - you could breed them, eat them, sell their stuff. Nobody cares about a rabbit foot or sth like that. You cannot just give things a use by implementing something new on top, as the game needs to balance as a whole. You are only going to end up with even more useless things. I don't wanna swap helmets going into the nether. Fine if it isn't bothering you, but it is bothering others. I find it to be annoying. By the way - the nether update IS great, but I feel like it doesn't exactly belong into this game, as it is too good. Minecraft lives by an image of incomplete pixel style. The nether feels like actual hell out of a professional game of this niche.
I realised that there is a huge problem with enchantments and XP. Also villager trades ruined the whole dynamic somehow. An upside is: At least you can get XP in a peaceful way now too, for example through friendly mobs, oven, automated farms, which is an improvement, the mob sounds in mob farms used to annoy me a lot.
Check out my Youtube-Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@VanillaLongplayz
This. I couldn't agree more with the sentence: "I has effectively shrunk the Nether for me, not expanded it"
I think those areas could be visited more easily with for example at least an elytra. A fundamental problem is: You get the elytra at the END of the game, after beating the enderdragon and to get there you need to get the blaze rods FIRST - meaning: you need to explore the nether with its endless difficult biomes and never ending lava, huge caves in order to being able to explore it in a comfortable way.
The bastions are as secret and hidden as possible. I actually got into spectator mode and got lost in the nether trying to find one - that's how far away it was. Couldn't find my way back. There was a joke in the old days to better not get lost in the nether - only if we would have known how serious this would get. Now getting lost in the nether is actually a real thing...
I have to say the warped forest looks beautiful, but I see no point in this beauty. I wouldn't really know how to use those materials in the overworld. It's all just a show and it makes the normal gameplay annoying. I'd like to explore those things on a voluntarily basis, not be forced to it. I think what they are trying to do here is slowly turning an open world game into a story based game with a clear forced path and I don't like that. Wish I knew why they are doing this.
Check out my Youtube-Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@VanillaLongplayz
It sounds like the biggest issue you have is with mob farms, which I fully agree with - everybody just wants to automate everything instead of taking the time to collect resources and XP, and worst of all, Mojang is feeding this playstyle, even reverting nerfs to farms because it "upset certain influential players".
Example:
This is even more insane - intentionally undoing a bugfix - not to mention the bug they exploit had been known (reported) since a few weeks after it appeared during the development of 1.8 and never should have made it to release, months later (I honestly can't understand Mojang's bug-fixing policy; 1.20.2 is fixing some silly "bugs" like "player burnt to a crisp" as being "incorrect American English", while important issues like mobs glitching into walls have been ignored for a decade, despite numerous fixes given)::
I not only implemented this change in my own mod but went further to make only melee attacks count as a player kill (no splash potions, TNT, etc), and all other mobs that drop some sort of resource only do so when killed by a player (if not directly, with the exception of Looting and bows, where I fixed the still-unfixed bug where you can hold a Looting sword while using a bow to get the Looting effect. An interesting exception to Looting only working with melee attacks is deflected Ghast fireballs, due to the difficulty of doing so and directly attacking a Ghast).
Spawn chunks? Completely unnecessary and enables farms to continue working no matter where you are in a world (they might have some benefit on large multiplayer servers where people always join at a certain location, avoiding the need to keep reloading the spawn area, otherwise, players who join elsewhere will need chunks to be loaded anyway). I permanently disabled them after initial world creation (another bonus is the reduction in memory/resource usage; you'd be amazed at how little memory older versions, even as heavily modded as TMCW, may need, though this is only a small factor).
While I did not directly nerf XP drops I did reduce the rate at which mobs spawn by a factor of 4, and up to 12 if the mob cap can't be kept more than half full, which can severely hurt mob farms while having no impact on normal gameplay (IIRC serves like Spigot do something similar; performance was one of the main reasons I made this change); mobs spawned from mob spawners will stop dropping XP and items if too many spawn too quickly, with a cooldown before drops are re-enabled (they do spawn mobs much faster as my intent was to make them more of a threat, than "spawn 1-2 zombies every 30 seconds" - in vanilla I've run into a dungeon filled with skeletons only to find it was actually a zombie dungeon).
Also, why can you still break bedrock? Just add the following code to the "Chunk.setBlock" method and problem solved ("canRemoveBedrock" is set to true when a player in Creative mode breaks a block, allowing them to break it; the debug stacktrace enables following code execution to the offending code that tried to replace it - I'd surely hope that Mojang has thought of doing the same thing when debugging issues):
if (oldBlock == BlockStates.bedrock && !this.isRemote && !canRemoveBedrock) { if (DebugHelper.DEBUG_MINECRAFT) new Exception("An attempt was made to replace bedrock!").printStackTrace(); return false; }I also made it so mobs can never spawn above the Nether ceiling, since what is the point? Mobs also only despawn based on horizontal distance, reduced from 128 to 96 blocks, but still leaving a huge area to spawnproof since it doesn't matter how high up you are and there are over twice the volume of caves underground (vs vanilla 1.6.4), as well as more "normal" caves in the Nether (they do still randomly despawn outside of a 32 block radius sphere). I did make a change that can be helpful though, mobs on the surface at night do not detract from the "cave mob cap" (an idea taken from Bedrock Edition; the main intent of this change was to make the mob experience while caving more consistent throughout the day, with the result that I regularly kill about 50% more mobs).
Also, whenever I bring up the ease of obtaining resources manually, even to just repair their gear (as you had to before 1.9) a lot of people just tell me, "well, yeah, you spend all your time caving" and try to imply that they'd have to spend literally all their time collecting resources even though I use barely anything of what I collect (I don't think they can grasp the magnitude of numbers like 10,000 either; for perspective, the amount of iron I collected in the 30 day period shown below was enough to make 1,000 sets of iron armor and nobody is going through 30+ a day; a similar difference applies to diamond, and I didn't even use Fortune (these numbers are blocks mined):
On this subject, the change to reduce air exposure in caves was simply terrible; I see no significant difference in resource collection rates across all of my worlds, including modded worlds with far more and larger caves than vanilla (as the above was from, "vanilla" meaning 1.6.4 of course); the following was from a 30 day period on my last modded world, mostly differing in the amount of mineshaft-related items due to mineshafts being less common, further offset by a relatively greater volume of caves (measurements of ore exposure indicate about 30% more exposed ore per chunk, which is a meaningless statistic by itself. I also suspect that Mojang expects you to be using Night Vision when caving, eliminating a lot of the factors that offset the increased ore exposure in larger caves (having to light them up, including pillaring up to the ceiling without even knowing if there is anything up there):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I disagree with this. If they only add stuff if it is for everyone then they will simply never be adding anything.
I don't think people realize this to the extent it is true, but the community is massive. This isn't 2011 anymore, or even 2013, when the community was already very big. The range of opinions today is unbelievably vast and there's going to be things some people want that others don't want, and vice versa.
There's no problem with the deep dark biomes because of stripmining. Yes, you can run into one doing so. You also get ample warnings, and there's also ample space underground to do so without it being an issue.
I don't agree that something is bad for the game just because it can add risks or changes to another gameplay possibility. Strip mining isn't largely impacted, and it isn't the only way to get resources. It's still the most efficient and safest even with said deep dark biome existing, so what is the problem? You can never be changing anything at that rate.
I have to disagree here, too.
Many players love the ambiance that new biomes and new mobs add. It's something people have been asking for since the beginning. It literally shows what I said above; some people want things and some others want different things. You'd have complaining either way.
I never liked the argument that because mods exist, it justifies leaving things out of the game. That's actually awful.
I prefer to play with as few mods as possible. Mods come with caveats and ties. They tie that world to that mod. Some people want things but don't want to be tied down to mods. Mods are great, mind you. They're a massive benefit of the game and its community, but it's not like we should skip adding things to the game itself and deferring that entirely to mods. Some people have the opinion that the base game should merely be a bare-as-can-be framework where mods serve as optional plug-ins of sorts. I disagree with this. Having that actually work as easily and as well as people think it will seems incredibly unlikely as well.
Golden carrots and golden apples seem like quite the use though.
Turtles are only useless outside ambiance because respiration and water breathing potions exist and are so broken. The time duration on those two things needs a massive hit, and the underwater breathing granted by turtle helmets needs massively increased in place of that. In other words, move the water breathing to turtle helmets.
This would encourage making a turtle helmet for real underwater adventures/trips, while still offering limited options before you get the turtle helmet (or to boost it further). Right now, the enchantment is too much of a free stat boost (which I disagree with) and the extended water breathing potions are way too long.
So many things in this game could benefit from being rebalanced in my own opinion, but the community constantly cries when nerfs happen, so... here we are. Things become useless because broken things exist, and new things can't be added unless they're more broken or else they become useless. And then over times things get worthless. It would be healthy if the game gets rebalanced which is why I'm watching the upcoming villager change with anticipation.
I don't know... to me even just between chickens, pigs, and cows, there was a clear better one back then (and it was cows). Pigs sort of had a lesser use since they were easier to breed once carrots were added, but late game, it is always going to come down to one. Chickens had a use for arrows but for food, I was always doing cows.
That said, rabbits definitely feel like they're lacking use. They are rare (so even an ambiance they aren't doing so good), have a niche use (drop is only useful for potions and a nichhe one in my opinion?), and having more uses as pets would be neat. Always seems sad that half the times I find one, they go to run away, hope down and fall and die in one jump of a distance shorter than I would expect to kill them, and then I have to listen to the sad but awkward noise they make.
I agree with the second part, as I said above. The game needs rebalanced because the current balance is part of what is causing issues.
I disagree that you can't give things use by adding new features. That's sort of what they need to be justified as new things, no?
Everything is bothering someone though, honestly.
The nether update feels great to me and I'm pretty sure the community considers it one of the best updates (possibly the best one) to the game.
That's not to say you're wrong if you're not one of the ones who likes it. I've disliked a few popular updates, and I've also liked a few unpopular ones. Just how it goes, and I'm fine with it. More people liking something is just an "appeal to the masses" reasoning rather than a reason why it's good itself, but there's a lot of reasons a lot of people find the nether update great. At the end of the day though, with a community as large and split as Minecraft is, additions will likely tend to cater to a majority rather than what nobody will dislike, because the community is so vast that any additions will be disliked by a not insignificant amount of people, so the latter is impossible to achieve. In other words, it's impossible to please everyone. Best to try and please as many and upset as little as possible.
They should at least remove phantoms, which more than 50% of players dislike, but they don't. They only keep adding and adding and never removing things that were simply a bad decision. The game is floated with: too many items (pun intended)
Check out my Youtube-Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@VanillaLongplayz
I don't think there's too many items.
Phantoms are one of the things that I would agree on though and seem to be mixed at best, if not unpopular. I wouldn't mind seeing it changed.
I like the mob itself, but not so much its purpose or implementation, even if I often avoid it by sleeping. I think the intent was to have something in the overworld that allowed for more accessible repairing of elytra.
If an end update occurs, I feel like it would better belong there. I think they were originally going to do that, but changed their mind given how difficult/threatening it would be without an elytra there?
They might be referring to how things were before Beta 1.8; only pigs dropped food back then so cows were only a source of leather and milk (only useful for cake as there were no potions/status effects yet); likewise, chickens only dropped eggs and feathers, and the latter wasn't a unique drop as zombies also dropped feathers (instead of rotten flesh). This is not unlike how sheep only dropped wool until release 1.8. Animals couldn't be bred either (eggs spawned adult chickens as there were no baby animals); you simply waited for them to spawn (and despawn) like hostile mobs, with the same spawn rate (every tick instead of every 400 ticks).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumLet me derail this conversation by going back to what the video is about. Yes, there's too many structures. It's just as exciting as finding a coffe bar in Italy: you can't throw a rock without hitting one. But I wish this was the only problem. There's worse.
First, the risk/reward ratio is all over the place. Most structure are unguarded and easy to enter, so totally accessible to an early player, but are full with loot that can make them skip to mid game instantly. Why? Others are guarded but with worse loot; like, who wants to secure a spawner just to get another saddle when there's shipwrecks full of gems all around? It's pathetic how all the treasure you can find in dungeons is the infinite XPs you get from the spawner itself, the worst case of risk/reward ratio there is, probably. Think of all the things you need to do to conquer an Ocean Monument and then wonder if getting some sponges was worth it.
Then, lack of variety. They're all the same. They tried adding some variety with villages, abandoned Nether portals and shipwrecks but it's just eye-candy, the challenge they offer is the same, if there's any. Most structures don't require the player to get better at something, it's always the same: get in, grab stuff, get out. The only exception aside from dungeons (get in, light the place, yadda yadda) is the Ancient Cities, but we go back to point 1: the risk/reward ratio is almost ridiculous, with the most dangerous mob requiring to master an unique mechanics, guarding one of the most borderline useless loot.
The only structures that makes sense, in my opinion, are Nether Bastions and End Cities. They both require some thought and skill, and the loot is a little OP but not too much considering the effort required to get there. I wish they remade all structures learning their own lessons from the above two. I don't believe anyone would complain.
I agree 100%. Well said. You might think: Why are Nether Bastions and even End Cities more balanced? Because they are older. The nether and the end have been slightly expanded. Blazes already exist forever now. New mobs like the wither skeleton don't change much. You have a reason to go there, not just for loot chests. The area is exciting to some degree. When we think about shipwrecks of the ocean update or some random generated structures in the overworld, there are not exciting. They could have made it exciting by making more shipwrecks with only some having loot, others having dangerous sharks swimming in them. They could have made pyramids with interesting dangerous paths and traps like you find them in countless adventure maps - but no they did always the same beginner tnt trap that couldn't be more visible and easy to avoid. Minecraft allows so much more and they don't use it. In my opinion they should either add stuff in a good way or just don't. There is no problem in keeping minecraft simple.
Check out my Youtube-Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@VanillaLongplayz
I agree with this.
The balance is all over with the game, and I think it could use a pass on a lot of stuff like that. The problem is, this would likely take away a lot of development time (whether it should or not) and an "update" of rebalancing will likely go over poorly with the modern community. I'm hoping the villager changes are a part of a bigger pass that they're spreading out over time, but time will tell. Because while there's improvements being made with these changes in my opinion, they also don't solve a lot of the real issues that made exploiting trades necessary in the first place.
One specific one I disagree on is ancient cities and end cities. The former is fine to me, but I suppose that might be bias because I like them for the experience alone (the loot makes them worthwhile too in my opinion), and I don't cheese them. If you want to approach them as efficiently as possible, even if that means cheesing them, end cities can have the same said about them though. If you already have an elytra, they're super easy, and even if you don't, pillaring/ender pearls gets you one. They're still challenging yes but you can cheese them as well.
Bastions are sort of the actual hard one, but a gold helmet minimizes a lot of the threat within it (until you open a chest or attack one they are passive, but this still lets you attack them freely before they retaliate). That leaves the the hoglins and the piglin brute, which is unaffected by the shiny lure, and the latter of which is the sole reason bastion remnants are really hard. Maybe frustratingly so in some players' opinions.
I think you're overlooking (or perhaps forgetting due to how rare they are?) woodland mansions. Yes, the raids make totems more accessible but that was also sort of necessary. Again, the structure and experience of it is still there and I find they're sort of like bastions in that they're challenging and justified. This is actually one that is maybe slightly too rare but I'd rather other structures be rarer like this than have them littered everywhere.
Ocean monuments are great but a bit too common, and yes not worth the effort. I didn't even know what a conduit was or did until after I had already done one. I think the gold is a nice reward though, but probably not enough. Perhaps chests full of gold too, and make the monuments rarer to compensate.
I honestly don't have much issue with most of the structures themselves (though refreshing some old ones with revamps would be welcome). I also don't mind them adding even more. But they definitely need to tone the frequency of like all of them (well, almost all of them) way, way down, and sometimes way, way, way, way down (looking at you, villages, but add shipwrecks, ruined portal, and ocean ruins to this). I get they don't want things to possibly take too long to find, but here's the thing.
Seeds are always RNG, so anyone who really wants a village by spawn can search one out.
But mostly it'll put some exploration and gameplay back into the very early game.
The funny thing is the terrain generation since 1.7 encourages exploring over larger distances now, but the structures seemed balanced as though you'll get a lot even if you don't. They contrast in feel.
As I've mentioned before, this is largely because of the changes to biome generation in 1.7 and even more so 1.18, and its impacts on playstyles - the same insanely huge biomes (or clusters of very similar biomes, which make the actual biome size irrelevant) across vast distances, far exceeding the average spacing between structures (512 blocks), which led to an average of one structure every 4-5 biomes (where "biome" refers to a 256 chunk area (on average, less when factoring in sub-biomes, e.g. desert temples but not villages can generate in Desert Hills), as the game used to define each "cell" at the biome scale).
In fact, the next update to TMCW is actually making most structures more common, though only on the default world type and a new "oceanic" world type, they will be less common (per area) on larger biome sizes (keep in mind though that Large Biomes has 16 times the area of default, so even the lowest chance of 0.4 means 6.4 times the chance per biome; I'm tempted to make it even lower but the areal frequency becomes quite ridiculous, even considering somebody who explores the surface for fun, of course, TMCW doesn't have elytra and horses are unfeasible given the often rugged terrain, so you are pretty much limited to on foot. Said terrain, and much larger trees (up to 64 blocks tall) in various biomes, also limits visibility, and most structures will not generate on mountains so being able to see distant mountains doesn't help spot them):
For perspective, I explore an average of 100 chunks per play session so dividing the numbers in the "vanilla" column by 100 gives the number of sessions/days between finding a structure in my first world, ranging from 2-4 months, and is consistent with finding 13 jungle temples over about 1,300 sessions (but highly variable, I've found a jungle temple and a witch hut in the past 4 months; desert temples have been unusually rare with only 6 found in total, and they have the same probability of generating and I've found plenty of deserts. I have no idea how many witch huts I've found since I never tracked them in my first world but certainly closer to 13 than 6). Also, slow exploration rate or not, I've stilt found several each of every biome that has a structure, illustrating the relatively low probability that one will actually have something..
Also, based on how people say they play Alpha and Beta versions it seems like exploration was very limited back then, pretty much just "find a good place to settle down and build"; of course, biomes were quite small and limited back then with few biome-specific resources (e.g. cactus, snow, and spruce wood, the latter only for the block itself since there was only one type of planks/other wooden blocks). As recently as 1.6.4 you could find most biomes and their resources without exploring that far (a few hundred blocks in every direction; a level 3 map was likely to have everything, land coverage permitting, with the exception of a Mushroom Island), so exploration was likely still relatively limited. Contrast that to today and most players will certainly want to explore to find a specific resource; the upcoming changes to villager trading will only further the need if you want to be able to trade for every biome-specific enchantment.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumAs you said, they're already dedicating lot of development to rebalancing, it keeps happening no matter how it almost always disappoint a part of the community. It's not stopping, so it might as well go in the right direction.
Just a word about the community, though: we're talking about a vocal minority here. I bet anyone would have a hard time proving the majority of players care about "trading halls" and "farming", it's mostly children who want to build and play like it was a normal game instead of Engineering 101. Every time Mojang caters to technical players they risk leaving behind the rest of them, which might switch to another game and stop giving them free advertising.
Well, everybody in this game can be cheesed because it gives a lot of freedom to the player. It's inevitable. But there's a difference between almost everything being abusable by players with enough experience, and giving away free stuff to everyone. It shortcuts progress too much in a game where progress is one of the core features that distinguish it from a regular sandbox game without rules. It's like they don't want players to experience early game anymore. Why?
Also, the opposite is true: there's structures where the risk is not worth the reward. Cheesing them is the only rational solution, and that's a pity.
It was not a complete dissertation about every single structure but yes, I didn't even think about those. To me, it's a mixed bag. The difficulty seems tuned around mid to late game players, but the only notable loot you can't find easier elsewhere, the Totem, is only useful in SMP because, let's be frank here, dying in SSP is not a big deal in itself and can be easily avoided by a player with enough experience to get a Totem in the first place. Basically, it shares the same problem Ancient Cities have: too hard for people who would use its reward.
I did a test with datapacks that simply made common structures spawn much farther from each other. Guess what: finding one was exciting, even when there was no challenge involved because it felt like being given an unexpected opportunity. I guess the problem here is servers: lot of people defiling every single thing they find. Make structures rarer and it would impossible to find one. One more reason to split SSP and SMP once and for all.
Anyway, the recent snapshot adding maps to find villages for the purpose of solving the problem with enchantments they just created, is maybe by mistake the right thing to do in this game: give tools to find structure in most interesting ways than just walking in a random direction. It would be cool if getting a map required some challenge related to progress, but I'm not hopeful about that (if they do, please make the Spyglass relevant, thanks).
Well I'm not talking about what code or technical reason makes it happen. I'm just pointing out that post-1.7, the game made changes that seemed to encourage exploration more, and then structure frequency being increased worked against that (though structure frequency being so high didn't happen initially with 1.7 but rather slowly over time until it reached the current point). The structure frequency needs toned way down to just be at parity with how things were before.
I'm tired of leaving sight distance of a village and being close to finding another (on bedrock with longer render distances this has to be silly looking).
I mean... I can believe that. The game was far more limited back then, and as much as we like to rose tint the past, it was outright way more limited. For better in some ways, maybe, but also missing some of the better things of the present in others ways.
But in a vacuum, the terrain generation from beta and before had its upsides to the one that came immediately after it, and one of those things the community had issue with it over was because it made things more repetitive. I'm not talking about release 1.7 for clarity, but beta 1.8 to release 1.6 generation.
That's sort of another example like the above. The game gives something to encourage exploration (biomes), then makes another change that feels like it contrasts that (all biomes are said to be rather repetitive). Funny thing is that's the same thing 1.7 did. More biomes, but more repetition. Seems 1.7 wasn't the first time that happened.
Well a minority could be anyone less than half, so technically that could be true, but I don't think stuff like farms and all that are as uncommon as using the term makes it sound. I'd say it's definitely a "not insignificant" amount of players.
Apparently they've not only withheld changes but bug fixes because farms, and this was years and years ago. Which sounds pretty crazy to me.
So... about as I imagined, then.
I don't mind if a given structure carries little risk or is easy. I do mind it when they're super common, full of strong loot, and free of risk though, to where you're finding it commonly almost all of the time within easy access of spawn.
Also, if data packs can do this, it's probably easy enough to add as a game rule on world creation? They seem to be heading down the path of adding more customization with that again.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumMojang may be leery of making the game "harder" - in this case by making things like villages and shipwrecks harder to find - because of the monster backlash when they nerfed Iron Golem iron farms. That didn't even affect all that many people - I have never needed an iron farm, and they are a lot of work for something normally in surplus by the time you can build it. But boy howdy, that was a firestorm! And Mojang backed down.
Not shocked they fear a rerun with a village frequency nerf. Even if we have lots of people actively *complaining" about excessive village frequency, which we never had with Golem farms. Once burned, twice shy.
There was a huge missed brilliancy with Shipwrecks. Just put them *only* deep underwater. Just that would have made finding them really exciting, and there would be a cottage industry of YouTubes on "how to find and plunder a shipwreck".
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Just drink a underwater breathing potion. Done.
Check out my Youtube-Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@VanillaLongplayz
Again though, there never was any actual increase in structure frequency, other than due to changes to biome generation - I mean, this is what a Large Biomes world looked like in 1.6 - yes, all those dots are villages - absolutely everywhere within the biomes they can spawn in (which causes the clustering); with an average spacing of 512 blocks (32 chunks) you can indeed be seeing a village pretty much as soon as the previous one leaves your render distance if it is 16 or higher:
For comparison, this is from 1.10 (I used an archived version of ChunkBase which supported back to 1.6; they apparently think that nobody cares about pre-1.7 versions anymore. Note that the current page use a larger viewport and zoom in differently, making it harder to accurately get a 1:1 comparison):
Notably, there are 72 villages in the 1.6 map and 46 in the 1.10 map (yes, I did just use default for 1.10 since the scale of climate zones/biome clusters is more like what Large Biomes use to be with the situation worsening in 1.18). 1.10 is also when Taiga villages were added and biome restrictions were removed (in 1.6 a percentage of villages fail to generate due to insufficient space to place enough buildings because there are only allowed to intersect Desert and Plains. This also increases structure frequency on Large Biomes).
Examples taken from the actual seed (16 chunk render distance); all these were in the same desert to the northwest of spawn, with the nearest village almost within sight (if you just move a bit to the northwest you'll see it. I did turn off fog so that gives an additional advantage) - every single pair of villages shown can be seen from the next:
Spawn is in the Taiga at the top; the village on the left is the the village on the right in the first screenshot:
Even better, triple villages, and a double village visible within 8 chunks (I've mentioned that I found such an occurrence before, even if in a modded world with reduced spacing, as the minimum spacing of 8 chunks wasn't modified. And yes, you can even have 4 villages within a 9x9 chunk area)
The two closer villages at 8 chunk render distance:
Also, this is the only Large Biomes world I have (besides a long-lost Survival Island-type world which was mostly ocean; this world is modded but only the underground was modified); there are 8 villages, 4 in the desert and 4 more elsewhere (one is just visible at the edge of generated chunks a bit to the south of center on the left), only restricted by suitable biomes (a lot of the area to the northwest is Extreme Hills; the size of the world is 13,319 chunks, or about 4/5 of a level 4 map, and would average about 13 villages based on their average spacing and 100% of the area being valid spawn biomes):
Also, this may be the most conclusive proof that the underlying frequency has never been changed; I overlayed the world shown above on a map of 1.20, with village locations marked for clarity; this also makes it clear that biomes are indeed roughly equivalent to the original Large Biomes size, again compounded by the fact that the same few biomes (in particular, plains, desert, savanna, taiga), congregate over much larger areas, so you end up with vast numbers of villages within most of the world:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumA game rule is not really fit for something like that in my opinion. It's not like it's impossible to code, it's just not what gamerules are about: tweaking mechanics, not something static like the worldgen. Anyway, I'm very skeptical about customization being more accessible. Aside from the format being so WIP it basically breaks after every version, it seems like Mojang wants us to write data packs instead of picking options in a menu. Unfortunaly writing such complex data packs with almost no documentation is a nightmare.
That's an excellent idea because it's mid game loot, so it makes sense to require mid game challenges to get it. Now, if only making potions wasn't made so pointless by making it harder to do than getting special gear...
That's part of the problem: since they always generate with the same frequency but the overall frequency of structures is not adjusted after adding more structures, each time they add a new one the place gets more crowded.
Also, they're mostly found in easy to reach places: you never have to climb a mountain because there's nothing special up there. No need to reach the (unexistent) ocean depths because you can only find Ocean Monuments and they're borderline useless. Go underground and it's always the same congerie of dungeons and mineshafts, with the new Ancient City being very optional and just rare, not hard to reach.
It's like they want anyone to be able to reach Overworld structures from day 1. No challenge, no fun, in my opinion.