I haven't experienced this issue but have you been getting "forbidden" errors when trying to post lately?
I saw that for the first time last night. I thought it was a one-off and thought little of it, and then I tried posting to the same thread (after navigating back to the main menu and then back to the thread) and got the same error and gave up. It might have been the "what have you done recently" thread. I forget.
Yeah, the templates being reusable would go a long way towards justifying it too.
I was just stating that I don't mind the addition of the template itself, at least not the requirement of needing it as a step to get netherite, but I disagree with the added time and effort needed. If they counteracted this by making the ancient debris more common, it would have made the extra time/effort needed for the new template be balanced out relative to the investment that is needed now before 1.20.
Basically, neat item and idea, but poorly implemented in regards to current balance.
Sadly our complaining on these forums won't do anything to stop them, the only way something ever will be done about it is if enough people make the complaint directly to Mojang themselves, if that doesn't happen then nothing changes. We get sidelined while a different generation of players get what they want, and if the game remains as popular as more people continue to buy and try the game out for themselves, it's unlikely that this update alone would cause enough people to stop playing and then boycott Microsoft as a result of what templates are doing to netherite upgrade in 1.20.
The bigger problem here is not so much the popularity, but the fact that changes get forced on us whether we agree with them or not. It shouldn't come down to a simple majority, just because a majority agree with something doesn't make it right, all it tells us is what their opinions are. And I find it frustrating when people try to justify something just because of its popularity alone, a better metric of how valid things are would be to weigh up pros and cons.
Bedrock edition should have got the feature Java edition now already has, and that's version locking through the official launcher for both the client and server. World options should also become a consideration, so people have the option to turn off features they dislike so they get to enjoy newer decoration blocks and passive mobs in their worlds, without having to deal with the negatives that come with them, and that's vanilla Minecraft with no gamerule commands also.
Uhhh nope. But I get errors when trying to upload screenshots.
Actually nvm I just got a posting error right now when trying to quote TMC on page 3. I had to open his profile as he said and then it still didn't work so I posted on page 4 without quoting him.
I can vouch on the difficulty for finding enchanted books in structures to prove your point on that aspect. From my experience, Abandoned Mineshafts and Stronghold Libraries have the best odds overall at finding enchanted books as loot. Most other structures seldomly offer them, and in the rare instance that you do find them in most structures, the enchantments are Subpar, like Protection I, Riptide I, Looting I, etc.
While Abandoned Mineshafts have an increased odds at finding them(Due to all the Minecart with chests as well as generated Dungeons), the enchanted books found tend to suffer the same subpar quality issue. Now Stronghold Libraries, they offer some potent enchanted books when found, equivilant to a Level 30 Enchantment off of the Enchantment Table, which is nice, but that is kind of a reward for finding the Stronghold XD.
Now when you talk about Custom Enchants like Vein Miner, are you using Aulixor's EcoEnchants or is that your own variant of the Vein Miner CE? They have some fun CEs like Vein Miner, Blast Mining, Infernal Touch (Smelting), Indestructibility (Max Level of VI adds a 7X Multiplier to an item's durability), and Repairing (Which makes Mending look Obsolete).
While on the topic, how does your variant of Mending work with things like Fishing Rods, Tridents, and Turtle Shells (if they're even accessible in your gameplay due to the version you play on)?
The subpar quality of dungeon and mineshaft books is something that can be fixed however, it doesn't have to remain that way and the probability of finding such structures could be increased as well as a means of an enchantment rebalance
My proposal in a future update is that certain books found in them could be made to unlock specific trades in both Villager trades and the Enchantment table, and the chiseled bookshelves in 1.20 could later be coded to affect the probability of some enchantments showing up on the table.
I've discussed the problem with TMC's solution of the mending rebalance with allyourbasesaregone and he knows well the issue is how do people even begin to deal with the renewability issue of resources like diamond and netherite? which would under TMC's system would need to be constantly found in addition to a newer item called rubies to keep prior work penalty down, which for most people I could see being extremely annoying, as if it's already terrible enough that as of 1.20 in June 7th which is less than 2 weeks from now that netherite upgrade will require non reusable templates from Bastions.
How is this making the game more accessible for players? it's the opposite, now the game is starting to pander to elitists who don't seem to care what they are demanding of other people or the fact that not everybody has the time to spend more than 2 hours a day in-game, sometimes not even 30 minutes depending on the jobs they have and how tired or busy with chores they would be when arriving back home.
And I've had to repeat to TMC numerous times now that not everybody who plays the game likes spending the majority of their time mining or in cave systems, some survival players only do mining for the occasional thrill, but otherwise would later want to use the resources they earned for building structures. Mending and resource farms helps to give players the free time to do this, time which they otherwise wouldn't have if mending and villager trading, as we know it today were gone.
He seems to keep trying to apply his play style to the average player base and even playstyles which differ from his own, and that's where the fundamental disagreement from me and him comes from.
And I've had to repeat to TMC numerous times now that not everybody who plays the game likes spending the majority of their time mining or in cave systems, some survival players only do mining for the occasional thrill, but otherwise would later want to use the resources they earned for building structures. Mending and resource farms helps to give players the free time to do this, time which they otherwise wouldn't have if mending and villager trading, as we know it today were gone.
And I've repeated numerous times to you how easy it is to collect resources if you know how to:
A maximum efficiency is reached at a spacing of around 6 blocks (that is, 6 solid blocks left in-between the tunnels). At this spacing, efficiency is about 0.017, corresponding to 1.7% of blocks removed being a diamond.
3600 seconds/hour / 0.6 seconds per block * 1.7% of blocks being diamond ore * 2.2 (Fortune III multiplier) = 224 diamonds per hour.
224 diamonds / 3 diamonds per pickaxe * 1560 durability * 4 (Unbreaking III multiplier) = 465,920 blocks worth of uses out of a single hour of branch-mining. Even if the real efficiency is only half as high (I do doubt the 1.7% figure but 0.9%, as they show for a spacing of 3 blocks, does match what I find) that is still enough for 232,960 blocks.
Seriously, how long would it take for you to burn through nearly half a million blocks (or half of that, as noted)?! Even with my playstyle it would take close to 100 (50) play sessions, at 3-4 hours each! Like I said, i don't even use virtually all the resources I find - I literally just see them as a byproduct of caving for fun (which also happens to meet my very meager needs - I absolutely DO NOT spend all my time caving just to get resources to repair my gear):
(there should be an image here which shows a double chest filled more than hallway with diamond blocks. I've been suspicious of whether others can see my images since somebody said they couldn't, or you are simply ignoring my evidence)
15,588 diamonds - if you turned those into pickaxes, with Unbreaking III, they could mine over 32 million blocks. Shovels? Almost one hundred million blocks. There are about 31.5 million seconds in one year, so if you used shovels and mined one block per second it would take about three years of nonstop mining to use all of them up, a full year to use up the pickaxes - both far exceeding the total time I've spent in this world (with about 1/10 of that time spent actually mining ores, or any blocks at all, while the ratio might be reversed if you branch-mined).
Frankly, I think a big part of the issue is that you (and humans in general) can't comprehend numbers of this magnitude:
Here is another way to help visualize just how much I mine - again, nearly all of that just goes into chests never to be used; the fact that even diamond can easily be seen at this scale is insane, while coal and iron can cover multiple biomes (and all of that is still only a fraction of all the ores in the world; while 1.18 made coal and iron rarer it tripled the amount of diamond and the ability to use Fortune on iron helps offset its rarity, almost as if Mojang wants you to use it; don't get me wrong, I still think the changes were a terrible decision and iron is still only half as accessible as if they just doubled the amount in accordance with the deeper underground):
Also, how much time do you spend mining in order to get all the stuff you need for building? Surely you must be mining a LOT, as well a spending a lot of time clearing large areas of land. I assume you do use stone/deepslate? Like how I use quartz to build my main base, which I primarily mine to get the XP I need to enchant my gear? Just as I do you may as well mine for it where you can find resources to maintain your gear, no need to use netherite either when its 12.5% mining speed advantage is nullified by Unbreaking and th3e fact that the game can only resolve time in increments of 0.05 seconds (in fact, with Efficiency V a wooden pickaxe mines stone just as fast as gold; as I mentioned before, it is only worth using for swords since a Sharpness V diamond sword can't kill zombies in two non-critical hits but netherite can).
And I've repeated numerous times to you how easy it is to collect resources if you know how to:
3600 seconds/hour / 0.6 seconds per block * 1.7% of blocks being diamond ore * 2.2 (Fortune III multiplier) = 224 diamonds per hour.
224 diamonds / 3 diamonds per pickaxe * 1560 durability * 4 (Unbreaking III multiplier) = 465,920 blocks worth of uses out of a single hour of branch-mining. Even if the real efficiency is only half as high (I do doubt the 1.7% figure but 0.9%, as they show for a spacing of 3 blocks, does match what I find) that is still enough for 232,960 blocks.
Seriously, how long would it take for you to burn through nearly half a million blocks (or half of that, as noted)?! Even with my playstyle it would take close to 100 (50) play sessions, at 3-4 hours each! Like I said, i don't even use virtually all the resources I find - I literally just see them as a byproduct of caving for fun (which also happens to meet my very meager needs - I absolutely DO NOT spend all my time caving just to get resources to repair my gear):
(there should be an image here which shows a double chest filled more than hallway with diamond blocks. I've been suspicious of whether others can see my images since somebody said they couldn't, or you are simply ignoring my evidence)
15,588 diamonds - if you turned those into pickaxes, with Unbreaking III, they could mine over 32 million blocks. Shovels? Almost one hundred million blocks. There are about 31.5 million seconds in one year, so if you used shovels and mined one block per second it would take about three years of nonstop mining to use all of them up, a full year to use up the pickaxes - both far exceeding the total time I've spent in this world (with about 1/10 of that time spent actually mining ores, or any blocks at all, while the ratio might be reversed if you branch-mined).
Frankly, I think a big part of the issue is that you (and humans in general) can't comprehend numbers of this magnitude:
Here is another way to help visualize just how much I mine - again, nearly all of that just goes into chests never to be used; the fact that even diamond can easily be seen at this scale is insane, while coal and iron can cover multiple biomes (and all of that is still only a fraction of all the ores in the world; while 1.18 made coal and iron rarer it tripled the amount of diamond and the ability to use Fortune on iron helps offset its rarity, almost as if Mojang wants you to use it; don't get me wrong, I still think the changes were a terrible decision and iron is still only half as accessible as if they just doubled the amount in accordance with the deeper underground):
Also, how much time do you spend mining in order to get all the stuff you need for building? Surely you must be mining a LOT, as well a spending a lot of time clearing large areas of land. I assume you do use stone/deepslate? Like how I use quartz to build my main base, which I primarily mine to get the XP I need to enchant my gear? Just as I do you may as well mine for it where you can find resources to maintain your gear, no need to use netherite either when its 12.5% mining speed advantage is nullified by Unbreaking and th3e fact that the game can only resolve time in increments of 0.05 seconds (in fact, with Efficiency V a wooden pickaxe mines stone just as fast as gold; as I mentioned before, it is only worth using for swords since a Sharpness V diamond sword can't kill zombies in two non-critical hits but netherite can).
You collect those resources because it's all you ever do in the game, under no instance have you ever showcased to any of us the builds you done, not exceeding or even on par with what leangreen76 or what Princess Garnet has done with their survival worlds..
But what you fail to comprehend is what other players would rather be doing with their time.
You collect those resources because it's all you ever do in the game, under no instance have you ever showcased to any of us the builds you done, not exceeding or even on par with what leangreen76 or what Princess Garnet has done with their survival worlds..
But what you fail to comprehend is what other players would rather be doing with their time.
Here is another example of just how far my resource collection exceeds what I actually need and just how little of your time is needed to be spent on collecting resources - all the coal I mine in a single play session is enough to cook a year's worth of food - an entire year - that's only 0.3% of the total time spent mining, and you'd probably need way less food without constantly jumping around and fighting mobs in caves, even better, hunger loss from non-health regeneration sources was greatly reduced in newer versions (I've had people play on TMCW and tell me how fast they lose hunger, nope, not a feature of my mod but just vanilla mechanics, but it doesn't bother me at all). Not to mention that is without using Fortune, which would increase the net yield by more than 2.2 times since I use so much coal on torches (which again, aren't needed in such quantities by the average player):
Jumping (assumes 10% are sprint-jumps): 47054 (3565 baked potatoes)
Regeneration (after 76.16% damage reduction from armor): 33977 (2574 baked potatoes)
Walking (assumes 90% walking/10% sprinting): 24190 (1833 baked potatoes)
Attacking: 11985 (908 baked potatoes)
Mining (pickaxes only): 6456 (489 baked potatoes)
Total hunger used: 123662 (9368 baked potatoes; I crafted 10818 with multiple stacks at 3 bases so this is pretty close when including minor sources of hunger loss like swimming)
Hunger per play session: 508.9 (38.5 baked potatoes)
I've now been caving for an entire year of play sessions (365 days); over this period I mined 1.27 million ore and 1.39 million "resource" blocks out of a total of 1.8 million blocks, placed 400,000 torches, and killed 181,000 mobs:
Amount of food consumed in one year (365 sessions) = 38.5 * 365 = 14,052 baked potatoes
Amount of coal mined in one day = 2313
Net yield (minus coal used for torches and smelting ores, about 393) = 1920; items smelted = 15,360
Net yield if Fortune was used = 2313 * 2.2 - 393 = 4695; items smelted = 37,565
Yes, that is right - if I used Fortune to mine all the coal I collect I'd have enough surplus from a single day of playing to smelt over 37,000 items! Put another way, that's almost 11 double chests! Most players probably spend less time playing than I do but even then I average enough coal in a single hour to smelt about 4,000 items, 9,700 if I used Fortune - that's less than 1.5 hours to mine all the coal needed to cook the food I consumed in 1,400 hours - barely more than one tenth of a percent of the total time - meaning I could spend 99.9% of my time on other activities! This is not much different from what I calculated for diamonds, around 1% of the total time required from collect more if you branch-mined for them and used Fortune (at least 20x the efficiency at which I get per hour) and used diamond gear at the rate at which I do, which I highly doubt.
Seriously, this is the last straw - the spirit of Minecraft is truly and utterly dead for most players, they simply can't understand what "survival mode" is supposed to be about or why the game has "mine" in its name. Princess_Garnet also summed it up pretty well when they said you basically want something between Creative and Survival mode:
But to be fair, I don't think Agtrigormortis was expecting that anyway. I disagree on the notion that nerfs are making the game less accessible in survival, but it sounds to me like what he personally wants is something between creative and survival. Basically survival but everything drops multiple amounts of itself maybe? And then some other changes to trivialize some things? Because it sounds like he wants the up front access (or at least very fast paced access) but not quite instant, infinite access to anything and everything, and it sounds like he still wants the no flight, combat, and hunger restrictions of survival. That's the impression I'm getting, and why creative isn't a perfect fit.
What is an acceptable fraction of the time spent on collecting resources for you? 10%, 1%, 0.1%, 0.01%?! How do you even mange to collect all the materials you must need to build things? Or do you just let others collect them for you (you do seem to play with others)? If they do, then why are you even complaining about nonexistent issues (because you know, there is Mending and Mojang has in no way stated that it will be nerfed, and they know very well how much it would anger the playerbase - which has caused them to revert changes in the past; did you know they wanted to make iron golems and zombie pigmen no longer drop iron/gold unless killed by a player (not even a total nerf, just a nerf to fully automated farms)? That caused such a huge uproar they had to undo it)? They have even refused to fix bugs because too many players became dependent on them!
Funnily enough, you made a post in this thread which would completely kill automated mob farms, a major way of obtaining resources, yet you complain about having to collect resources. What exactly do you even want out of the game?
Seriously, this is the last straw - the spirit of Minecraft is truly and utterly dead for most players, they simply can't understand what "survival mode" is supposed to be about or why the game has "mine" in its name. Princess_Garnet also summed it up pretty well when they said you basically want something between Creative and Survival mode:
What is an acceptable fraction of the time spent on collecting resources for you? 10%, 1%, 0.1%, 0.01%?! How do you even mange to collect all the materials you must need to build things? Or do you just let others collect them for you (you do seem to play with others)? If they do, then why are you even complaining about nonexistent issues (because you know, there is Mending and Mojang has in no way stated that it will be nerfed, and they know very well how much it would anger the playerbase - which has caused them to revert changes in the past; did you know they wanted to make iron golems and zombie pigmen no longer drop iron/gold unless killed by a player (not even a total nerf, just a nerf to fully automated farms)? That caused such a huge uproar they had to undo it)? They have even refused to fix bugs because too many players became dependent on them!
Funnily enough, you made a post in this thread which would completely kill automated mob farms, a major way of obtaining resources, yet you complain about having to collect resources. What exactly do you even want out of the game?
If what the upgrade templates are doing to the game is any indication I think the playerbase has a very good reason to fear future potential nerfs from Mojang, as the upgrade templates are forcing players to go out of their way to mine for more diamonds just to craft new netherite gear by the time the 1.20 update is released on 7th of June. You need to think about yourself in their situation, not just your own. Mojang started this by continuing to change the goalposts required for players to obtain their items, rather than sticking to a rule everybody can both understand and agree to.
Mending does allow gear to last forever as long as it is used responsibly as mentioned before, but any accident that results in death in the game means that gear could be lost, it doesn't help when netherite gear is going to cost more diamonds as a result of what's needed to duplicate templates.
A big problem with the game is it doesn't really offer some middle ground between survival and creative, it doesn't have a mode where the point of the game is to collect resources, but then use those resources to build ambitious structures, either by themselves or with friends online. Different play styles clash as a result of this problem, which explains why people are so resistant to nerfs, there is no compromise being offered, people are forced to deal with them regardless when they do happen.
Survival appears to be built around punishing players for even making the attempt at building anything larger or more expensive than a wooden hut, as you are largely expected to use those resources for equipment and surviving attack against hostile mobs, and that is where the anger is coming from. If resources become much harder to obtain than they are now, some people wouldn't want to be playing the game period as a result.
Consider that in the past, before mending and before netherite, players would constantly need to get iron and diamond for new things. That's less the case now.
Mojang may be figuring if people are going to go with one everlasting set, they want to make the last mile require more time investment? And to make it require more diamonds? I'm not sure of their thought process and can only speculate. Diamond isn't drastically worse than netherite (the main thing that is worse with it as far as I'm aware isn't damage or mining speed, but rather the durability, and again unbreaking/mending diminish that), so in the meantime before getting netherite upgrades, it's not really a big thing for me.
Consider that in the past, before mending and before netherite, players would constantly need to get iron and diamond for new things. That's less the case now.
Mojang may be figuring if people are going to go with one everlasting set, they want to make the last mile require more time investment? And to make it require more diamonds? I'm not sure of their thought process and can only speculate. Diamond isn't drastically worse than netherite (the main thing that is worse with it as far as I'm aware isn't damage or mining speed, but rather the durability, and again unbreaking/mending diminish that), so in the meantime before getting netherite upgrades, it's not really a big thing for me.
But that extra 25% of durability does actually matter when you consider the active use of shovels and pickaxes when pulling apart mountains for evening out the terrain for building, trust me I know from experience how much durability ends up being lost through hours of use with this, so does chaptmc and I can tell you there is a great deal of benefit with this, especially when you consider the additional base durability stacking with the unbreaking III enchantments, it means less backtracking for repair jobs.
Of course we could make do with diamond tools in future for our build projects, but why should we have to? it is only because of Mojang's rotten decision that this may end up becoming the case, and I highly doubt they have any plans to buff diamond ore generation, they have made it very clear that they intend netherite to be a niche item only a minority of players get their hands on, it's not fair, but that's the way Mojang wants it unfortunately.
I also have doubts mending will remain as it is now for very long, because Mojang will quickly realize how beneficial this enchantment is for netherite gear, how they will deal with this is unknown, but it is entirely possible the worst outcome could end up happening with it, especially with this enchantment being so controversial and the fact that apparently, the fanbase isn't open to compromise, everyone thinks what they want would make the game more fun or engaging, but the problem is not everybody understands that imposing their ideas on other's can mean making or breaking a game for somebody else.
Perhaps mending should be reworked to require the anvil for each repair, but the problem of item renewability still remains, as well as the abundance of such resources needed to maintain expensive equipment and with the upgrade template duplication cost added on top of it, it is going to be inconvenient for many players, regardless of the intentions behind it, the road to hell was paved with good intentions, it means, good intentions don't always lead to the best possible outcome, and it is a problem neither Mojang nor the fanbase have learned.
Personally I find it refreshing to see you three arguing about this because you're openly pointing out each other's flaws and I'm tired of biting my lip about some of your views or habits due to the rules saying to not criticize people.
Personally I find it refreshing to see you three arguing about this because you're openly pointing out each other's flaws and I'm tired of biting my lip about some of your views or habits due to the rules saying to not criticize people.
Princess_Garnet does bring up some interesting points from time to time, I get where she is coming from when she suggests people need to learn how to adapt to change, some changes just aren't tolerable however and they become too much of an inconvenience to deal with which is why in a different thread I asked the community what other sandboxes exist, good ones, which offer what Minecraft does but even better.
TMC on the other hand accuses others of not being efficient with their mining sessions, completely ignoring that there are play styles that differ from his own and not all of us enjoy spending most of our time strip mining, and I will be upfront about this one and will say it's boring and repetitive. Sure, we may sometimes go on a caving adventure or mining, but there are other things in the game we would like to do with our time, like searching for different biomes, going into the sea to find ocean monuments in Overworld, seeking out elytra or shulkers in End cities, or for more dragon heads if we wished in the End, and were in the mood for it, or as I said before, building, in any of the 3 dimensions, but mostly the Overworld where it's generally safer.
There are builds I would like to do in vanilla survival which I hand't yet got the time or the chance to, but do plan on doing, copying by hand, block by block with the resources collected, copying designs from a creative world I had made a long time ago but kept screenshots of builds I wished to rebuild in a survival world. If resource farms and enchantments keep getting nerfed, it means I have less time to do these projects, and I am not the only one, there are friends on my server who are in a similar situation and do share some of the concerns I do.
And I can see why other people would be angered by the removal of such features, it's not like Mojang can be trusted to provide players a decent alternative, when have they ever? chaptmc doesn't like the fact that gold ingot drops got removed entirely from Drowned Zombies in 1.17, instead of a mere nerfing of the drop rates so that copper ingots could take up some of the probability in their loot pools, now it's even harder to obtain the gold we need to make a rail system from end to end into each other's territories, one of my friend's locations is about 14,000 blocks away from origin on Z coordinate, he chose this area because it allows him convenient access to a Pillager Tower in case he wants to farm raids for their loot, but as a consequence, it has also made it more costly to build a powered rail system from A to B.
The issue with Mojang is they keep treating every resource farm as if it's some kind of cheat, but as I said before, if they didn't want farming to be part of the game they should have thought their designs through more from the get go before making them public and then allowing us to use them for so long. But rather than take responsibility and own up to their mistake, they continue to punish fans.
It's completely understandable why people who use resource farms would want to keep using them, it helps them get their projects done faster, does it need to be explained how and why? it's obvious to anyone.
Consider that in the past, before mending and before netherite, players would constantly need to get iron and diamond for new things. That's less the case now.
You could still make everlasting gear before 1.8, by simply renaming an item, and the vast majority of the effort I spend on making my gear is on enchanting, not mining for the resources, even with my mod's exceptionally rare amethyst (8 times rarer than diamond, with most of what I collected while caving used on repairs) so it is absolutely not the same as just making new items, even if the amount of resources needed was the same (if you used books to enchant them that is; remember that before 1.8 enchantments were completely random (you didn't even know at least one of the enchantments), and I'd absolutely want e.g. Sharpness V, Knockback II, and Unbreaking III on my sword, or Efficiency V and Unbreaking III (no Fortune or Silk Touch) on my main pickaxe. Many of these also require books and/or multiple items in order to obtain (Sharpness V, Efficiency V, as well as Unbreaking on armor and weapons).
I have the impression that the renaming mechanic was not well-known back then (I recall people telling me that you can't repair items forever, which is true for the overly enchanted "god" gear most players seem to make) but the Wiki mentioned it shortly after anvils were added, despite the little information they give about how anvils work (they don't even say what the "penalty" is, there was no dedicated "anvil mechanics" page until much later):
Renaming an item removes the penalty for repairing the same item multiple times.
In fact, most of the 2 weeks or so I spend in a world before I start caving for fun is spent on making my "caving gear", with most of it spent on mining quartz in the Nether (upwards of 15,000), I also spent several hours on getting Mending from trading (which as mentioned before is functionally identical to renaming in vanilla 1.6.4, where I wouldn't have to spend anywhere near as much time on making my gear, not just because of this but because I use my equivalent of netherite (you absolutely do not want to risk directly enchanting amethyst items given how rare it is. Also, newer versions have grindstones so you can easily remove unwanted enchantments and try again, so you may as well directly enchant netherite gear to take advantage of its higher enchantability).
But that extra 25% of durability does actually matter when you consider the active use of shovels and pickaxes when pulling apart mountains for evening out the terrain for building, trust me I know from experience how much durability ends up being lost through hours of use with this, so does chaptmc and I can tell you there is a great deal of benefit with this, especially when you consider the additional base durability stacking with the unbreaking III enchantments, it means less backtracking for repair jobs.
If you're talking about "pulling apart mountains", which is probably beyond anything I've ever done, then that is a massive undertaking for survival, no?
I... don't even think I've done something that that level, not in one task anyway. The closest I've done to that might be when I dug out a large portion of a mountain down to bedrock (way before 1.18 made the world deeper). I did it before netherite, before mending, and before 1.14 villager trades made getting the enchantments you wanted easier (I never even used villager trades before 1.14), so I just... went through a ton of diamond pickaxes with random enchantments of varying levels of unbreaking/efficiency, not necessarily the highest levels. I did this by investing the time into it. I haven't even fully finished it, nor the "yard" outside it, yet.
(As a bonus in its unfinished state, I run down there especially at night and kill mobs that spawn all over the floor with tools in my offhand to repair them, and this never feels like an extreme request on Mojang's part for the fact that it lets me continuously use something, yet it's... not enough?)
I've tried to point this out to you already, but we need to take some level responsibility for our own choices and accept that we may be undertaking what are massive projects for survival, and that it will take more time and effort as a result. We HAVE to accept this. Lashing out like it is the the game that is at fault, like it is marginalizing us because it doesn't cater specifically to us by making such a huge task overly trivial, isn't the answer. That's just going to result in us creating our own self despair. This is the only reason I started participating in this thread. I identified you expressing this despair, I wanted you to get out of it because we should do things that make us happy instead, and I tried to give logical approaches to dealing with it.
I really don't know what else to suggest. Minecraft is a game unlike most others, and while it still has its limitations (and while it may be an "actively developing" game that can involve changes we might not like at times), it allows us to do many things most other games won't. Large scale projects in survival are just something you should expect to take a lot of time and effort. That's somewhat the point of it, even. You'll feel more accomplished for it (or at least, I do).
everyone thinks what they want would make the game more fun or engaging, but the problem is not everybody understands that imposing their ideas on other's can mean making or breaking a game for somebody else.
I hope you realize you're saying exactly what I've been trying to say to you for the entirety of the thread?
My main point was if you aren't happy with something, instead of wallowing in despair, drop what makes you unhappy and replace it with something that makes you happier. It's our own responsibility to find things that make us happy, not expect everything to conform to us by default.
Personally I find it refreshing to see you three arguing about this because you're openly pointing out each other's flaws and I'm tired of biting my lip about some of your views or habits due to the rules saying to not criticize people.
Huh?
By all means, participate. The more the merrier? That's... how discussions work. The fact that a given discussion involves differing opinions doesn't make it bad. I'd actually say the opposite and it makes it good. I mean I'm not sure why any of the views expressed so far makes you feel like you have to break the rules to react to them. I haven't seen any opinion stated that is so bad it warrants that, but... by all means, participate if you have something to say.
But it's funny because my MAIN intent of participating in the discussion that was arising wasn't even to discuss the topic itself. It was more to give a particular member suggestions for how to be happier, because they've repeatedly been coming across as unhappy. And it's ultimately up to use to take responsibility and make ourselves happy, so I was trying to give suggestions to try and accomplish that.
By all means, participate. The more the merrier? That's... how discussions work. The fact that a given discussion involves differing opinions doesn't make it bad. I'd actually say the opposite and it makes it good. I mean I'm not sure why any of the views expressed so far makes you feel like you have to break the rules to react to them. I haven't seen any opinion stated that is so bad it warrants that, but... by all means, participate if you have something to say.
But it's funny because my MAIN intent of participating in the discussion that was arising wasn't even to discuss the topic itself. It was more to give a particular member suggestions for how to be happier, because they've repeatedly been coming across as unhappy. And it's ultimately up to use to take responsibility and make ourselves happy, so I was trying to give suggestions to try and accomplish that.
Well, the criticisms here could be taken as personal, and I find it amusing because I wouldn't have the nerve to make such points out myself - I tend to go along to get along regardless of anyone's pet peeves or eccentricities. And this forum and game in general attract plenty of different people so there's a lot of strange things I've witnessed in the last five years.
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As for my own opinion, I'm kind of split, but given the frequent release of new content, I'm accepting whatever is done to the game like it or not. Having the choice between versions and editions helps.
Unless you make something personal for the sake of attacking the person, then it's not personal though. You can't control how others will take things, so that's no reason to abstain from sharing an opinion you want to share. Jump in, water is warm, and all that. The more the merrier.
Notice how I'm sort of doing that. My opinion on "is Minecraft becoming less trivial to the point it's marginalizing people" is not one I share with Agtrigormortis. But despite that, I DO share in the opinion that "Minecraft would be better if it had more ways to appeal to a wider range of desires".
I'm agreeing with the broader, personal desire he has above all else, even if I'm not agreeing on some specifics. I like hearing other opinions, even if (or sometimes, especially if) they differ from my own. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.
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I was talking with a work friend at my workplace today who worked his way to recieving manager. He stopped playing at 1.14 (Buzzy Bees update) on Bedrock Edition. I was telling him about the 1.20 Update and he liked the content they were implementing, but he stated the way Vanilla is as it stands, he's over it, as it's 'too easy' and he stated that it wasn't about so much what was being talked about here (He didn't read the posts here and doesn't even know of this forum).
He said that while Mending combined with Netherite is Overpowered while that in itself isn't too terrible, he said that he agrees with the 1.20 change to Netherite needing the template as he felt Netherite was too easy to obtain and that it would give him a reason to use Diamonds. He would always use Iron, including Iron Armor and tools, finding Diamonds to be essentially useless to his playstyle, yearning for more Iron all the time, so the new use for Diamonds he would be happy with.
He also said Combat was the real thing that killed it for him as it became way too easy. He said he wanted more of a challenge with combat, where as he stated as an example, if a Zombie damaged you, you would become ill with a sickness and if you don't brew up a cure soon, you essentially die. Another example he used being in a projectile hit a player in the head, it would do alot more damage, unless the player had an Armor piece with Projectile Protection, giving the enchantment more utility and use, as the cost of using that instead of a general Protection enchantment.
It's 'different strokes for different folks' basically as it seems we all enjoy the game differently. I've stated my concerns about nerfs being applied by Mojang with no explanation already, no need to repeat myself again on that.
If you're talking about "pulling apart mountains", which is probably beyond anything I've ever done, then that is a massive undertaking for survival, no?
I... don't even think I've done something that that level, not in one task anyway. The closest I've done to that might be when I dug out a large portion of a mountain down to bedrock (way before 1.18 made the world deeper). I did it before netherite, before mending, and before 1.14 villager trades made getting the enchantments you wanted easier (I never even used villager trades before 1.14), so I just... went through a ton of diamond pickaxes with random enchantments of varying levels of unbreaking/efficiency, not necessarily the highest levels. I did this by investing the time into it. I haven't even fully finished it, nor the "yard" outside it, yet.
I am impressed by what I see. For somebody using common building materials, these builds look nice. They have a retro style to them. From what I see, I would almost assume you play on Console Legacy Xbox 360 Edition as this style is reflective of that of an older building style. The scale of this is what caught my eye with it.
So, here's the Japanese Pagoda I built years ago on my second Xbox 360 World from Title Update 12 based on the Pagoda from Metal Gear Rising and I can't wait to add Cherry Blossoms to the build in 1.20. The reason why it was easy to build on the Console Legacy days (Despite all the time it took to harvest and convert all that lava into Obsidian) was the 'Reset the Nether' feature. Nowadays we have Dripstone for renewable lava, but 'Reset the Nether' was the way to do it back then. Link from mega.nz since it seems I get Error 403: Forbidden Codes when trying to upload pictures.
Now to give you an idea of how much Obsidian was actually mined, Link from mega.nz It took about two and a half months to build this thing XD, but considering this is one of the most impressive detailed structures I built during the Console Legacy days, I keep it upto date with current blocks and continue to invest into it on Bedrock Edition. Man I miss 4J Studios XD.
And I can see why other people would be angered by the removal of such features, it's not like Mojang can be trusted to provide players a decent alternative, when have they ever? chaptmc doesn't like the fact that gold ingot drops got removed entirely from Drowned Zombies in 1.17, instead of a mere nerfing of the drop rates so that copper ingots could take up some of the probability in their loot pools, now it's even harder to obtain the gold we need to make a rail system from end to end into each other's territories, one of my friend's locations is about 14,000 blocks away from origin on Z coordinate, he chose this area because it allows him convenient access to a Pillager Tower in case he wants to farm raids for their loot, but as a consequence, it has also made it more costly to build a powered rail system from A to B.
The issue with Mojang is they keep treating every resource farm as if it's some kind of cheat, but as I said before, if they didn't want farming to be part of the game they should have thought their designs through more from the get go before making them public and then allowing us to use them for so long. But rather than take responsibility and own up to their mistake, they continue to punish fans.
It's completely understandable why people who use resource farms would want to keep using them, it helps them get their projects done faster, does it need to be explained how and why? it's obvious to anyone.
I don't like the fact that Drowned had their Gold Ingot drops replaced with Copper Ingot drops due to the way it was handled. So as I stated Lady Agnes wanted Copper added and wanted a renewable way of obtaining it (Indirectly hinted at), which is shown here on this (Goto 27:13 since linking is messed up on here and starts the video at 00:00) . That was the Minecraft LIVE before 1.17 came out, and while I do admire her enthuiasm about Copper, I don't like how Jeb changed the drops to essentially cater to her on this.
Drowned's Gold Drops were in a way tied to Ocean structures and loot. What do you find in Ocean Monuments? Gold. Not Copper, Gold. What can you find in Shipwrecks? Gold, not Copper, Gold. What can you find in Buried Treasure? Gold, not Copper, Gold. Makes sense where the Drowned get their gold. Nothing in the water that shows where they get Copper Ingots from however. Copper Ingot drops would've made more sense on Strays considering you don't know how ancient they are and they could be frozen from a Copper Age, so it would make sense to have them drop Copper Ingots instead and would give players who want alot of Copper an incentive to find and hunt them down.
Then there is the Java vs. Bedrock Aspect. Java Players can build insane OP Automated Gold Farms on the Bedrock Ceiling whereas Bedrock Players cannot. So if the Drowned's drop was changed for balance, then as I stated before, Java should have also recieved Bedrock Parity with the Nether Ceiling, removing the ability to build up there and make those farms. That would be balance. Now you can build a Nether Gold Farm on Bedrock Edition (Not an Automatic One, it requires player interaction), though it takes a rediculous amount of time to setup, as you need alot of lava, building materials, and a good amount of knowledge of the game's mechanics to make it all work. AGT has seen my functional Bedrock Nether Gold Farm that does not use Nether Portals, though I refuse to publically showcase it and explain how it works, as I'm sure Jeb would find a way to nerf that too.
That situation could've been handled way better by Jeb with an explanation, as otherwise the perception is he catered to Lady Agnes on this matter.
remember that before 1.8 enchantments were completely random (you didn't even know at least one of the enchantments)
This is when Enchantments cost 30 Levels with no Lapis requirement, correct? I remember them days, which were fun, but that's probably because my friend and I grinded out alot of Charcoal back in the day to get 30 Levels to enchant while also getting alot of apples to prank our friend with. I had a friend who had terrible luck getting apples from Oak Trees, yet for some weird reason I had excellent luck getting them, but he didn't seem to want help. Well another friend of mine came up with the joke to send him all our apples while also getting the XP needed to enchant stuff, so yeah, good memories, slapping down a double chest in that friend's house and just unloading apples into it and waiting for him to log on and find it XD, and yeah we filled a double chest with Apples this way XD. It was a prank that went a long way while giving us the ability to enchant some stuff XD.
Now the reason why I brought up the Fishing Rod is on Java Edition it has 64 Durability whereas on Bedrock Edition it has 384, six times the amount. With your equivilant of Mending, does that mean I would be pouring String into a Fishing Rod alot to retain it? I love to relax and fish alot on the game and I'm trying to get a vibe on how that would work.
I was talking with a work friend at my workplace today who worked his way to recieving manager. He stopped playing at 1.14 (Buzzy Bees update) on Bedrock Edition. I was telling him about the 1.20 Update and he liked the content they were implementing, but he stated the way Vanilla is as it stands, he's over it, as it's 'too easy' and he stated that it wasn't about so much what was being talked about here (He didn't read the posts here and doesn't even know of this forum).
He said that while Mending combined with Netherite is Overpowered while that in itself isn't too terrible, he said that he agrees with the 1.20 change to Netherite needing the template as he felt Netherite was too easy to obtain and that it would give him a reason to use Diamonds. He would always use Iron, including Iron Armor and tools, finding Diamonds to be essentially useless to his playstyle, yearning for more Iron all the time, so the new use for Diamonds he would be happy with.
He also said Combat was the real thing that killed it for him as it became way too easy. He said he wanted more of a challenge with combat, where as he stated as an example, if a Zombie damaged you, you would become ill with a sickness and if you don't brew up a cure soon, you essentially die. Another example he used being in a projectile hit a player in the head, it would do alot more damage, unless the player had an Armor piece with Projectile Protection, giving the enchantment more utility and use, as the cost of using that instead of a general Protection enchantment.
It's 'different strokes for different folks' basically as it seems we all enjoy the game differently. I've stated my concerns about nerfs being applied by Mojang with no explanation already, no need to repeat myself again on that.
I am impressed by what I see. For somebody using common building materials, these builds look nice. They have a retro style to them. From what I see, I would almost assume you play on Console Legacy Xbox 360 Edition as this style is reflective of that of an older building style. The scale of this is what caught my eye with it.
So, here's the Japanese Pagoda I built years ago on my second Xbox 360 World from Title Update 12 based on the Pagoda from Metal Gear Rising and I can't wait to add Cherry Blossoms to the build in 1.20. The reason why it was easy to build on the Console Legacy days (Despite all the time it took to harvest and convert all that lava into Obsidian) was the 'Reset the Nether' feature. Nowadays we have Dripstone for renewable lava, but 'Reset the Nether' was the way to do it back then. Link from mega.nz since it seems I get Error 403: Forbidden Codes when trying to upload pictures.
Now to give you an idea of how much Obsidian was actually mined, Link from mega.nz It took about two and a half months to build this thing XD, but considering this is one of the most impressive detailed structures I built during the Console Legacy days, I keep it upto date with current blocks and continue to invest into it on Bedrock Edition. Man I miss 4J Studios XD.
I don't like the fact that Drowned had their Gold Ingot drops replaced with Copper Ingot drops due to the way it was handled. So as I stated Lady Agnes wanted Copper added and wanted a renewable way of obtaining it (Indirectly hinted at), which is shown here on this (Goto 27:13 since linking is messed up on here and starts the video at 00:00) . That was the Minecraft LIVE before 1.17 came out, and while I do admire her enthuiasm about Copper, I don't like how Jeb changed the drops to essentially cater to her on this.
Drowned's Gold Drops were in a way tied to Ocean structures and loot. What do you find in Ocean Monuments? Gold. Not Copper, Gold. What can you find in Shipwrecks? Gold, not Copper, Gold. What can you find in Buried Treasure? Gold, not Copper, Gold. Makes sense where the Drowned get their gold. Nothing in the water that shows where they get Copper Ingots from however. Copper Ingot drops would've made more sense on Strays considering you don't know how ancient they are and they could be frozen from a Copper Age, so it would make sense to have them drop Copper Ingots instead and would give players who want alot of Copper an incentive to find and hunt them down.
Then there is the Java vs. Bedrock Aspect. Java Players can build insane OP Automated Gold Farms on the Bedrock Ceiling whereas Bedrock Players cannot. So if the Drowned's drop was changed for balance, then as I stated before, Java should have also recieved Bedrock Parity with the Nether Ceiling, removing the ability to build up there and make those farms. That would be balance. Now you can build a Nether Gold Farm on Bedrock Edition (Not an Automatic One, it requires player interaction), though it takes a rediculous amount of time to setup, as you need alot of lava, building materials, and a good amount of knowledge of the game's mechanics to make it all work. AGT has seen my functional Bedrock Nether Gold Farm that does not use Nether Portals, though I refuse to publically showcase it and explain how it works, as I'm sure Jeb would find a way to nerf that too.
That situation could've been handled way better by Jeb with an explanation, as otherwise the perception is he catered to Lady Agnes on this matter.
This is when Enchantments cost 30 Levels with no Lapis requirement, correct? I remember them days, which were fun, but that's probably because my friend and I grinded out alot of Charcoal back in the day to get 30 Levels to enchant while also getting alot of apples to prank our friend with. I had a friend who had terrible luck getting apples from Oak Trees, yet for some weird reason I had excellent luck getting them, but he didn't seem to want help. Well another friend of mine came up with the joke to send him all our apples while also getting the XP needed to enchant stuff, so yeah, good memories, slapping down a double chest in that friend's house and just unloading apples into it and waiting for him to log on and find it XD, and yeah we filled a double chest with Apples this way XD. It was a prank that went a long way while giving us the ability to enchant some stuff XD.
Now the reason why I brought up the Fishing Rod is on Java Edition it has 64 Durability whereas on Bedrock Edition it has 384, six times the amount. With your equivilant of Mending, does that mean I would be pouring String into a Fishing Rod alot to retain it? I love to relax and fish alot on the game and I'm trying to get a vibe on how that would work.
That discussion you had with a manager at work, this shows the divide in the Minecraft community that exists and while his ideas for increasing the difficulty of the game in terms of combat would be welcomed by some people, the problem is it could become a complete annoyance for other people and no doubt you as well. I would hope a feature like that only ever gets implemented on hard or hardcore difficulty, or a newer difficulty "expert" which would be more difficult than hard, but still have infinite respawns, just the more advanced combat and survival elements some people are asking for.
I mean, I made our current survival world on normal difficulty because you don't like the feature where Piglin pick up your equipment after you die in the Nether and I did this as a compromise to encourage you to come back on my server, despite the fact that you weren't used to difficulties above peaceful.
I can deal with the Piglin with time and patience at the Bastions in the Nether, what I would not be able to tolerate though is that very idea if implemented if it applied to the difficulty we are playing on now, Zombies causing a sickness that required a cure potion to save players from death? no thank you.
See this is the problem with the Minecraft community, it doesn't look like the Manager you talked to considered how this idea would negatively affect another group of people, or the strict requirement in the use of Projectile Protection IV preventing critical hits, making the implication that Protection IV wouldn't be enough and all that would do is end up making Protection IV less useful for players, this would mean players would either need to disenchant current armour sets or make completely new ones to deal with the new combat mechanic, a mechanic that would probably end up being too complex for casual players without prior experience. But this is somebody who defended the requirement to get upgrade templates at Bastions just for the privilege of upgrading to netherite gear.
Is he even aware of the fact that a lot of people including ourselves had rushed to upgrade our gear to netherite to avoid having to deal with this problem? that isn't a good indication and it certainly doesn't bode well or tell everybody that people like the new requirements for netherite upgrade. I've read countless comments on Youtube from people about this already, on one of ibxtoycat's videos.
I saw that for the first time last night. I thought it was a one-off and thought little of it, and then I tried posting to the same thread (after navigating back to the main menu and then back to the thread) and got the same error and gave up. It might have been the "what have you done recently" thread. I forget.
june 7.
Sadly our complaining on these forums won't do anything to stop them, the only way something ever will be done about it is if enough people make the complaint directly to Mojang themselves, if that doesn't happen then nothing changes. We get sidelined while a different generation of players get what they want, and if the game remains as popular as more people continue to buy and try the game out for themselves, it's unlikely that this update alone would cause enough people to stop playing and then boycott Microsoft as a result of what templates are doing to netherite upgrade in 1.20.
The bigger problem here is not so much the popularity, but the fact that changes get forced on us whether we agree with them or not. It shouldn't come down to a simple majority, just because a majority agree with something doesn't make it right, all it tells us is what their opinions are. And I find it frustrating when people try to justify something just because of its popularity alone, a better metric of how valid things are would be to weigh up pros and cons.
Bedrock edition should have got the feature Java edition now already has, and that's version locking through the official launcher for both the client and server. World options should also become a consideration, so people have the option to turn off features they dislike so they get to enjoy newer decoration blocks and passive mobs in their worlds, without having to deal with the negatives that come with them, and that's vanilla Minecraft with no gamerule commands also.
Uhhh nope. But I get errors when trying to upload screenshots.
Actually nvm I just got a posting error right now when trying to quote TMC on page 3. I had to open his profile as he said and then it still didn't work so I posted on page 4 without quoting him.
HTTP Code: 403
Status Text: error
Address: https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/discussion/3176756-possible-1-20-release-date?page=3
Date: Mon May 29 2023 12:00:37 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Request: POST /comments/create-14-3176756
The subpar quality of dungeon and mineshaft books is something that can be fixed however, it doesn't have to remain that way and the probability of finding such structures could be increased as well as a means of an enchantment rebalance
My proposal in a future update is that certain books found in them could be made to unlock specific trades in both Villager trades and the Enchantment table, and the chiseled bookshelves in 1.20 could later be coded to affect the probability of some enchantments showing up on the table.
I've discussed the problem with TMC's solution of the mending rebalance with allyourbasesaregone and he knows well the issue is how do people even begin to deal with the renewability issue of resources like diamond and netherite? which would under TMC's system would need to be constantly found in addition to a newer item called rubies to keep prior work penalty down, which for most people I could see being extremely annoying, as if it's already terrible enough that as of 1.20 in June 7th which is less than 2 weeks from now that netherite upgrade will require non reusable templates from Bastions.
How is this making the game more accessible for players? it's the opposite, now the game is starting to pander to elitists who don't seem to care what they are demanding of other people or the fact that not everybody has the time to spend more than 2 hours a day in-game, sometimes not even 30 minutes depending on the jobs they have and how tired or busy with chores they would be when arriving back home.
And I've had to repeat to TMC numerous times now that not everybody who plays the game likes spending the majority of their time mining or in cave systems, some survival players only do mining for the occasional thrill, but otherwise would later want to use the resources they earned for building structures. Mending and resource farms helps to give players the free time to do this, time which they otherwise wouldn't have if mending and villager trading, as we know it today were gone.
He seems to keep trying to apply his play style to the average player base and even playstyles which differ from his own, and that's where the fundamental disagreement from me and him comes from.
And I've repeated numerous times to you how easy it is to collect resources if you know how to:
3600 seconds/hour / 0.6 seconds per block * 1.7% of blocks being diamond ore * 2.2 (Fortune III multiplier) = 224 diamonds per hour.
224 diamonds / 3 diamonds per pickaxe * 1560 durability * 4 (Unbreaking III multiplier) = 465,920 blocks worth of uses out of a single hour of branch-mining. Even if the real efficiency is only half as high (I do doubt the 1.7% figure but 0.9%, as they show for a spacing of 3 blocks, does match what I find) that is still enough for 232,960 blocks.
Seriously, how long would it take for you to burn through nearly half a million blocks (or half of that, as noted)?! Even with my playstyle it would take close to 100 (50) play sessions, at 3-4 hours each! Like I said, i don't even use virtually all the resources I find - I literally just see them as a byproduct of caving for fun (which also happens to meet my very meager needs - I absolutely DO NOT spend all my time caving just to get resources to repair my gear):
(there should be an image here which shows a double chest filled more than hallway with diamond blocks. I've been suspicious of whether others can see my images since somebody said they couldn't, or you are simply ignoring my evidence)
15,588 diamonds - if you turned those into pickaxes, with Unbreaking III, they could mine over 32 million blocks. Shovels? Almost one hundred million blocks. There are about 31.5 million seconds in one year, so if you used shovels and mined one block per second it would take about three years of nonstop mining to use all of them up, a full year to use up the pickaxes - both far exceeding the total time I've spent in this world (with about 1/10 of that time spent actually mining ores, or any blocks at all, while the ratio might be reversed if you branch-mined).
Frankly, I think a big part of the issue is that you (and humans in general) can't comprehend numbers of this magnitude:
https://towardsdatascience.com/the-small-problem-with-big-numbers-4f3dad23ce01
Here is another way to help visualize just how much I mine - again, nearly all of that just goes into chests never to be used; the fact that even diamond can easily be seen at this scale is insane, while coal and iron can cover multiple biomes (and all of that is still only a fraction of all the ores in the world; while 1.18 made coal and iron rarer it tripled the amount of diamond and the ability to use Fortune on iron helps offset its rarity, almost as if Mojang wants you to use it; don't get me wrong, I still think the changes were a terrible decision and iron is still only half as accessible as if they just doubled the amount in accordance with the deeper underground):
Also, how much time do you spend mining in order to get all the stuff you need for building? Surely you must be mining a LOT, as well a spending a lot of time clearing large areas of land. I assume you do use stone/deepslate? Like how I use quartz to build my main base, which I primarily mine to get the XP I need to enchant my gear? Just as I do you may as well mine for it where you can find resources to maintain your gear, no need to use netherite either when its 12.5% mining speed advantage is nullified by Unbreaking and th3e fact that the game can only resolve time in increments of 0.05 seconds (in fact, with Efficiency V a wooden pickaxe mines stone just as fast as gold; as I mentioned before, it is only worth using for swords since a Sharpness V diamond sword can't kill zombies in two non-critical hits but netherite can).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
You collect those resources because it's all you ever do in the game, under no instance have you ever showcased to any of us the builds you done, not exceeding or even on par with what leangreen76 or what Princess Garnet has done with their survival worlds..
But what you fail to comprehend is what other players would rather be doing with their time.
Here is another example of just how far my resource collection exceeds what I actually need and just how little of your time is needed to be spent on collecting resources - all the coal I mine in a single play session is enough to cook a year's worth of food - an entire year - that's only 0.3% of the total time spent mining, and you'd probably need way less food without constantly jumping around and fighting mobs in caves, even better, hunger loss from non-health regeneration sources was greatly reduced in newer versions (I've had people play on TMCW and tell me how fast they lose hunger, nope, not a feature of my mod but just vanilla mechanics, but it doesn't bother me at all). Not to mention that is without using Fortune, which would increase the net yield by more than 2.2 times since I use so much coal on torches (which again, aren't needed in such quantities by the average player):
Amount of food consumed in one year (365 sessions) = 38.5 * 365 = 14,052 baked potatoes
Amount of coal mined in one day = 2313
Net yield (minus coal used for torches and smelting ores, about 393) = 1920; items smelted = 15,360
Net yield if Fortune was used = 2313 * 2.2 - 393 = 4695; items smelted = 37,565
Yes, that is right - if I used Fortune to mine all the coal I collect I'd have enough surplus from a single day of playing to smelt over 37,000 items! Put another way, that's almost 11 double chests! Most players probably spend less time playing than I do but even then I average enough coal in a single hour to smelt about 4,000 items, 9,700 if I used Fortune - that's less than 1.5 hours to mine all the coal needed to cook the food I consumed in 1,400 hours - barely more than one tenth of a percent of the total time - meaning I could spend 99.9% of my time on other activities! This is not much different from what I calculated for diamonds, around 1% of the total time required from collect more if you branch-mined for them and used Fortune (at least 20x the efficiency at which I get per hour) and used diamond gear at the rate at which I do, which I highly doubt.
Seriously, this is the last straw - the spirit of Minecraft is truly and utterly dead for most players, they simply can't understand what "survival mode" is supposed to be about or why the game has "mine" in its name. Princess_Garnet also summed it up pretty well when they said you basically want something between Creative and Survival mode:
What is an acceptable fraction of the time spent on collecting resources for you? 10%, 1%, 0.1%, 0.01%?! How do you even mange to collect all the materials you must need to build things? Or do you just let others collect them for you (you do seem to play with others)? If they do, then why are you even complaining about nonexistent issues (because you know, there is Mending and Mojang has in no way stated that it will be nerfed, and they know very well how much it would anger the playerbase - which has caused them to revert changes in the past; did you know they wanted to make iron golems and zombie pigmen no longer drop iron/gold unless killed by a player (not even a total nerf, just a nerf to fully automated farms)? That caused such a huge uproar they had to undo it)? They have even refused to fix bugs because too many players became dependent on them!
Funnily enough, you made a post in this thread which would completely kill automated mob farms, a major way of obtaining resources, yet you complain about having to collect resources. What exactly do you even want out of the game?
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Minecraft's a survival and exploration game imo but caves are both of those so no issue on my part
(also testing that I can even post here and find this page)
If what the upgrade templates are doing to the game is any indication I think the playerbase has a very good reason to fear future potential nerfs from Mojang, as the upgrade templates are forcing players to go out of their way to mine for more diamonds just to craft new netherite gear by the time the 1.20 update is released on 7th of June. You need to think about yourself in their situation, not just your own. Mojang started this by continuing to change the goalposts required for players to obtain their items, rather than sticking to a rule everybody can both understand and agree to.
Mending does allow gear to last forever as long as it is used responsibly as mentioned before, but any accident that results in death in the game means that gear could be lost, it doesn't help when netherite gear is going to cost more diamonds as a result of what's needed to duplicate templates.
A big problem with the game is it doesn't really offer some middle ground between survival and creative, it doesn't have a mode where the point of the game is to collect resources, but then use those resources to build ambitious structures, either by themselves or with friends online. Different play styles clash as a result of this problem, which explains why people are so resistant to nerfs, there is no compromise being offered, people are forced to deal with them regardless when they do happen.
Survival appears to be built around punishing players for even making the attempt at building anything larger or more expensive than a wooden hut, as you are largely expected to use those resources for equipment and surviving attack against hostile mobs, and that is where the anger is coming from. If resources become much harder to obtain than they are now, some people wouldn't want to be playing the game period as a result.
Consider that in the past, before mending and before netherite, players would constantly need to get iron and diamond for new things. That's less the case now.
Mojang may be figuring if people are going to go with one everlasting set, they want to make the last mile require more time investment? And to make it require more diamonds? I'm not sure of their thought process and can only speculate. Diamond isn't drastically worse than netherite (the main thing that is worse with it as far as I'm aware isn't damage or mining speed, but rather the durability, and again unbreaking/mending diminish that), so in the meantime before getting netherite upgrades, it's not really a big thing for me.
But that extra 25% of durability does actually matter when you consider the active use of shovels and pickaxes when pulling apart mountains for evening out the terrain for building, trust me I know from experience how much durability ends up being lost through hours of use with this, so does chaptmc and I can tell you there is a great deal of benefit with this, especially when you consider the additional base durability stacking with the unbreaking III enchantments, it means less backtracking for repair jobs.
Of course we could make do with diamond tools in future for our build projects, but why should we have to? it is only because of Mojang's rotten decision that this may end up becoming the case, and I highly doubt they have any plans to buff diamond ore generation, they have made it very clear that they intend netherite to be a niche item only a minority of players get their hands on, it's not fair, but that's the way Mojang wants it unfortunately.
I also have doubts mending will remain as it is now for very long, because Mojang will quickly realize how beneficial this enchantment is for netherite gear, how they will deal with this is unknown, but it is entirely possible the worst outcome could end up happening with it, especially with this enchantment being so controversial and the fact that apparently, the fanbase isn't open to compromise, everyone thinks what they want would make the game more fun or engaging, but the problem is not everybody understands that imposing their ideas on other's can mean making or breaking a game for somebody else.
Perhaps mending should be reworked to require the anvil for each repair, but the problem of item renewability still remains, as well as the abundance of such resources needed to maintain expensive equipment and with the upgrade template duplication cost added on top of it, it is going to be inconvenient for many players, regardless of the intentions behind it, the road to hell was paved with good intentions, it means, good intentions don't always lead to the best possible outcome, and it is a problem neither Mojang nor the fanbase have learned.
Personally I find it refreshing to see you three arguing about this because you're openly pointing out each other's flaws and I'm tired of biting my lip about some of your views or habits due to the rules saying to not criticize people.
Princess_Garnet does bring up some interesting points from time to time, I get where she is coming from when she suggests people need to learn how to adapt to change, some changes just aren't tolerable however and they become too much of an inconvenience to deal with which is why in a different thread I asked the community what other sandboxes exist, good ones, which offer what Minecraft does but even better.
TMC on the other hand accuses others of not being efficient with their mining sessions, completely ignoring that there are play styles that differ from his own and not all of us enjoy spending most of our time strip mining, and I will be upfront about this one and will say it's boring and repetitive. Sure, we may sometimes go on a caving adventure or mining, but there are other things in the game we would like to do with our time, like searching for different biomes, going into the sea to find ocean monuments in Overworld, seeking out elytra or shulkers in End cities, or for more dragon heads if we wished in the End, and were in the mood for it, or as I said before, building, in any of the 3 dimensions, but mostly the Overworld where it's generally safer.
There are builds I would like to do in vanilla survival which I hand't yet got the time or the chance to, but do plan on doing, copying by hand, block by block with the resources collected, copying designs from a creative world I had made a long time ago but kept screenshots of builds I wished to rebuild in a survival world. If resource farms and enchantments keep getting nerfed, it means I have less time to do these projects, and I am not the only one, there are friends on my server who are in a similar situation and do share some of the concerns I do.
And I can see why other people would be angered by the removal of such features, it's not like Mojang can be trusted to provide players a decent alternative, when have they ever? chaptmc doesn't like the fact that gold ingot drops got removed entirely from Drowned Zombies in 1.17, instead of a mere nerfing of the drop rates so that copper ingots could take up some of the probability in their loot pools, now it's even harder to obtain the gold we need to make a rail system from end to end into each other's territories, one of my friend's locations is about 14,000 blocks away from origin on Z coordinate, he chose this area because it allows him convenient access to a Pillager Tower in case he wants to farm raids for their loot, but as a consequence, it has also made it more costly to build a powered rail system from A to B.
The issue with Mojang is they keep treating every resource farm as if it's some kind of cheat, but as I said before, if they didn't want farming to be part of the game they should have thought their designs through more from the get go before making them public and then allowing us to use them for so long. But rather than take responsibility and own up to their mistake, they continue to punish fans.
It's completely understandable why people who use resource farms would want to keep using them, it helps them get their projects done faster, does it need to be explained how and why? it's obvious to anyone.
You could still make everlasting gear before 1.8, by simply renaming an item, and the vast majority of the effort I spend on making my gear is on enchanting, not mining for the resources, even with my mod's exceptionally rare amethyst (8 times rarer than diamond, with most of what I collected while caving used on repairs) so it is absolutely not the same as just making new items, even if the amount of resources needed was the same (if you used books to enchant them that is; remember that before 1.8 enchantments were completely random (you didn't even know at least one of the enchantments), and I'd absolutely want e.g. Sharpness V, Knockback II, and Unbreaking III on my sword, or Efficiency V and Unbreaking III (no Fortune or Silk Touch) on my main pickaxe. Many of these also require books and/or multiple items in order to obtain (Sharpness V, Efficiency V, as well as Unbreaking on armor and weapons).
I have the impression that the renaming mechanic was not well-known back then (I recall people telling me that you can't repair items forever, which is true for the overly enchanted "god" gear most players seem to make) but the Wiki mentioned it shortly after anvils were added, despite the little information they give about how anvils work (they don't even say what the "penalty" is, there was no dedicated "anvil mechanics" page until much later):
In fact, most of the 2 weeks or so I spend in a world before I start caving for fun is spent on making my "caving gear", with most of it spent on mining quartz in the Nether (upwards of 15,000), I also spent several hours on getting Mending from trading (which as mentioned before is functionally identical to renaming in vanilla 1.6.4, where I wouldn't have to spend anywhere near as much time on making my gear, not just because of this but because I use my equivalent of netherite (you absolutely do not want to risk directly enchanting amethyst items given how rare it is. Also, newer versions have grindstones so you can easily remove unwanted enchantments and try again, so you may as well directly enchant netherite gear to take advantage of its higher enchantability).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
If you're talking about "pulling apart mountains", which is probably beyond anything I've ever done, then that is a massive undertaking for survival, no?
I... don't even think I've done something that that level, not in one task anyway. The closest I've done to that might be when I dug out a large portion of a mountain down to bedrock (way before 1.18 made the world deeper). I did it before netherite, before mending, and before 1.14 villager trades made getting the enchantments you wanted easier (I never even used villager trades before 1.14), so I just... went through a ton of diamond pickaxes with random enchantments of varying levels of unbreaking/efficiency, not necessarily the highest levels. I did this by investing the time into it. I haven't even fully finished it, nor the "yard" outside it, yet.
(As a bonus in its unfinished state, I run down there especially at night and kill mobs that spawn all over the floor with tools in my offhand to repair them, and this never feels like an extreme request on Mojang's part for the fact that it lets me continuously use something, yet it's... not enough?)
I've tried to point this out to you already, but we need to take some level responsibility for our own choices and accept that we may be undertaking what are massive projects for survival, and that it will take more time and effort as a result. We HAVE to accept this. Lashing out like it is the the game that is at fault, like it is marginalizing us because it doesn't cater specifically to us by making such a huge task overly trivial, isn't the answer. That's just going to result in us creating our own self despair. This is the only reason I started participating in this thread. I identified you expressing this despair, I wanted you to get out of it because we should do things that make us happy instead, and I tried to give logical approaches to dealing with it.
I really don't know what else to suggest. Minecraft is a game unlike most others, and while it still has its limitations (and while it may be an "actively developing" game that can involve changes we might not like at times), it allows us to do many things most other games won't. Large scale projects in survival are just something you should expect to take a lot of time and effort. That's somewhat the point of it, even. You'll feel more accomplished for it (or at least, I do).
I hope you realize you're saying exactly what I've been trying to say to you for the entirety of the thread?
My main point was if you aren't happy with something, instead of wallowing in despair, drop what makes you unhappy and replace it with something that makes you happier. It's our own responsibility to find things that make us happy, not expect everything to conform to us by default.
Huh?
By all means, participate. The more the merrier? That's... how discussions work. The fact that a given discussion involves differing opinions doesn't make it bad. I'd actually say the opposite and it makes it good. I mean I'm not sure why any of the views expressed so far makes you feel like you have to break the rules to react to them. I haven't seen any opinion stated that is so bad it warrants that, but... by all means, participate if you have something to say.
But it's funny because my MAIN intent of participating in the discussion that was arising wasn't even to discuss the topic itself. It was more to give a particular member suggestions for how to be happier, because they've repeatedly been coming across as unhappy. And it's ultimately up to use to take responsibility and make ourselves happy, so I was trying to give suggestions to try and accomplish that.
Well, the criticisms here could be taken as personal, and I find it amusing because I wouldn't have the nerve to make such points out myself - I tend to go along to get along regardless of anyone's pet peeves or eccentricities. And this forum and game in general attract plenty of different people so there's a lot of strange things I've witnessed in the last five years.
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As for my own opinion, I'm kind of split, but given the frequent release of new content, I'm accepting whatever is done to the game like it or not. Having the choice between versions and editions helps.
Unless you make something personal for the sake of attacking the person, then it's not personal though. You can't control how others will take things, so that's no reason to abstain from sharing an opinion you want to share. Jump in, water is warm, and all that. The more the merrier.
Notice how I'm sort of doing that. My opinion on "is Minecraft becoming less trivial to the point it's marginalizing people" is not one I share with Agtrigormortis. But despite that, I DO share in the opinion that "Minecraft would be better if it had more ways to appeal to a wider range of desires".
I'm agreeing with the broader, personal desire he has above all else, even if I'm not agreeing on some specifics. I like hearing other opinions, even if (or sometimes, especially if) they differ from my own. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.
I was talking with a work friend at my workplace today who worked his way to recieving manager. He stopped playing at 1.14 (Buzzy Bees update) on Bedrock Edition. I was telling him about the 1.20 Update and he liked the content they were implementing, but he stated the way Vanilla is as it stands, he's over it, as it's 'too easy' and he stated that it wasn't about so much what was being talked about here (He didn't read the posts here and doesn't even know of this forum).
He said that while Mending combined with Netherite is Overpowered while that in itself isn't too terrible, he said that he agrees with the 1.20 change to Netherite needing the template as he felt Netherite was too easy to obtain and that it would give him a reason to use Diamonds. He would always use Iron, including Iron Armor and tools, finding Diamonds to be essentially useless to his playstyle, yearning for more Iron all the time, so the new use for Diamonds he would be happy with.
He also said Combat was the real thing that killed it for him as it became way too easy. He said he wanted more of a challenge with combat, where as he stated as an example, if a Zombie damaged you, you would become ill with a sickness and if you don't brew up a cure soon, you essentially die. Another example he used being in a projectile hit a player in the head, it would do alot more damage, unless the player had an Armor piece with Projectile Protection, giving the enchantment more utility and use, as the cost of using that instead of a general Protection enchantment.
It's 'different strokes for different folks' basically as it seems we all enjoy the game differently. I've stated my concerns about nerfs being applied by Mojang with no explanation already, no need to repeat myself again on that.
I am impressed by what I see. For somebody using common building materials, these builds look nice. They have a retro style to them. From what I see, I would almost assume you play on Console Legacy Xbox 360 Edition as this style is reflective of that of an older building style. The scale of this is what caught my eye with it.
So, here's the Japanese Pagoda I built years ago on my second Xbox 360 World from Title Update 12 based on the Pagoda from Metal Gear Rising and I can't wait to add Cherry Blossoms to the build in 1.20. The reason why it was easy to build on the Console Legacy days (Despite all the time it took to harvest and convert all that lava into Obsidian) was the 'Reset the Nether' feature. Nowadays we have Dripstone for renewable lava, but 'Reset the Nether' was the way to do it back then. Link from mega.nz since it seems I get Error 403: Forbidden Codes when trying to upload pictures.
Now to give you an idea of how much Obsidian was actually mined, Link from mega.nz It took about two and a half months to build this thing XD, but considering this is one of the most impressive detailed structures I built during the Console Legacy days, I keep it upto date with current blocks and continue to invest into it on Bedrock Edition. Man I miss 4J Studios XD.
I don't like the fact that Drowned had their Gold Ingot drops replaced with Copper Ingot drops due to the way it was handled. So as I stated Lady Agnes wanted Copper added and wanted a renewable way of obtaining it (Indirectly hinted at), which is shown here on this (Goto 27:13 since linking is messed up on here and starts the video at 00:00) . That was the Minecraft LIVE before 1.17 came out, and while I do admire her enthuiasm about Copper, I don't like how Jeb changed the drops to essentially cater to her on this.
Drowned's Gold Drops were in a way tied to Ocean structures and loot. What do you find in Ocean Monuments? Gold. Not Copper, Gold. What can you find in Shipwrecks? Gold, not Copper, Gold. What can you find in Buried Treasure? Gold, not Copper, Gold. Makes sense where the Drowned get their gold. Nothing in the water that shows where they get Copper Ingots from however. Copper Ingot drops would've made more sense on Strays considering you don't know how ancient they are and they could be frozen from a Copper Age, so it would make sense to have them drop Copper Ingots instead and would give players who want alot of Copper an incentive to find and hunt them down.
Then there is the Java vs. Bedrock Aspect. Java Players can build insane OP Automated Gold Farms on the Bedrock Ceiling whereas Bedrock Players cannot. So if the Drowned's drop was changed for balance, then as I stated before, Java should have also recieved Bedrock Parity with the Nether Ceiling, removing the ability to build up there and make those farms. That would be balance. Now you can build a Nether Gold Farm on Bedrock Edition (Not an Automatic One, it requires player interaction), though it takes a rediculous amount of time to setup, as you need alot of lava, building materials, and a good amount of knowledge of the game's mechanics to make it all work. AGT has seen my functional Bedrock Nether Gold Farm that does not use Nether Portals, though I refuse to publically showcase it and explain how it works, as I'm sure Jeb would find a way to nerf that too.
That situation could've been handled way better by Jeb with an explanation, as otherwise the perception is he catered to Lady Agnes on this matter.
This is when Enchantments cost 30 Levels with no Lapis requirement, correct? I remember them days, which were fun, but that's probably because my friend and I grinded out alot of Charcoal back in the day to get 30 Levels to enchant while also getting alot of apples to prank our friend with. I had a friend who had terrible luck getting apples from Oak Trees, yet for some weird reason I had excellent luck getting them, but he didn't seem to want help. Well another friend of mine came up with the joke to send him all our apples while also getting the XP needed to enchant stuff, so yeah, good memories, slapping down a double chest in that friend's house and just unloading apples into it and waiting for him to log on and find it XD, and yeah we filled a double chest with Apples this way XD. It was a prank that went a long way while giving us the ability to enchant some stuff XD.
Now the reason why I brought up the Fishing Rod is on Java Edition it has 64 Durability whereas on Bedrock Edition it has 384, six times the amount. With your equivilant of Mending, does that mean I would be pouring String into a Fishing Rod alot to retain it? I love to relax and fish alot on the game and I'm trying to get a vibe on how that would work.
That discussion you had with a manager at work, this shows the divide in the Minecraft community that exists and while his ideas for increasing the difficulty of the game in terms of combat would be welcomed by some people, the problem is it could become a complete annoyance for other people and no doubt you as well. I would hope a feature like that only ever gets implemented on hard or hardcore difficulty, or a newer difficulty "expert" which would be more difficult than hard, but still have infinite respawns, just the more advanced combat and survival elements some people are asking for.
I mean, I made our current survival world on normal difficulty because you don't like the feature where Piglin pick up your equipment after you die in the Nether and I did this as a compromise to encourage you to come back on my server, despite the fact that you weren't used to difficulties above peaceful.
I can deal with the Piglin with time and patience at the Bastions in the Nether, what I would not be able to tolerate though is that very idea if implemented if it applied to the difficulty we are playing on now, Zombies causing a sickness that required a cure potion to save players from death? no thank you.
See this is the problem with the Minecraft community, it doesn't look like the Manager you talked to considered how this idea would negatively affect another group of people, or the strict requirement in the use of Projectile Protection IV preventing critical hits, making the implication that Protection IV wouldn't be enough and all that would do is end up making Protection IV less useful for players, this would mean players would either need to disenchant current armour sets or make completely new ones to deal with the new combat mechanic, a mechanic that would probably end up being too complex for casual players without prior experience. But this is somebody who defended the requirement to get upgrade templates at Bastions just for the privilege of upgrading to netherite gear.
Is he even aware of the fact that a lot of people including ourselves had rushed to upgrade our gear to netherite to avoid having to deal with this problem? that isn't a good indication and it certainly doesn't bode well or tell everybody that people like the new requirements for netherite upgrade. I've read countless comments on Youtube from people about this already, on one of ibxtoycat's videos.