Let's remember the original context here though. The original complaint that got me to participate in the thread was that things were being found to be too gated for someone who seems to want to do very large scale building in survival. If one is expecting up front access and to a large amount of something early on in survival, the problem definitely isn't the game mode, but the players' expectations of it.
But to be fair, I don't think Agtrigormortis was expecting that anyway. I disagree on the notion that nerfs are making the game less accessible in survival, but it sounds to me like what he personally wants is something between creative and survival. Basically survival but everything drops multiple amounts of itself maybe? And then some other changes to trivialize some things? Because it sounds like he wants the up front access (or at least very fast paced access) but not quite instant, infinite access to anything and everything, and it sounds like he still wants the no flight, combat, and hunger restrictions of survival. That's the impression I'm getting, and why creative isn't a perfect fit.
Changing survival across the board to accomodate that would ruin survival for the majority of players (myself included) to make a few happier. But I agree it would be a benefit if there existed more options for people to tune the details of the game to their own desires. I'd even like to do that myself, in ways (namely with the warden and accompany spawning mechanics, but probably a couple other things like enderman, which I have a data pack for currently to prevent them from griefing).
In other words, I disagree on specifically what he wants and why (I think the mode is casual and accessible enough, and has been trending more that way), but I entirely agree on ultimately why he wants it (it would allow someone to tune the game more to their liking).
Let's remember the original context here though. The original complaint that got me to participate in the thread was that things were being found to be too gated for someone who seems to want to do very large scale building in survival. If one is expecting up front access and to a large amount of something early on in survival, the problem definitely isn't the game mode, but the players' expectations of it.
But to be fair, I don't think Agtrigormortis was expecting that anyway. I disagree on the notion that nerfs are making the game less accessible in survival, but it sounds to me like what he personally wants is something between creative and survival. Basically survival but everything drops multiple amounts of itself maybe? And then some other changes to trivialize some things? Because it sounds like he wants the up front access (or at least very fast paced access) but not quite instant, infinite access to anything and everything, and it sounds like he still wants the no flight, combat, and hunger restrictions of survival. That's the impression I'm getting, and why creative isn't a perfect fit.
Changing survival across the board to accomodate that would ruin survival for the majority of players (myself included) to make a few happier. But I agree it would be a benefit if there existed more options for people to tune the details of the game to their own desires. I'd even like to do that myself, in ways (namely with the warden and accompany spawning mechanics, but probably a couple other things like enderman, which I have a data pack for currently to prevent them from griefing).
In other words, I disagree on specifically what he wants and why (I think the mode is casual and accessible enough, and has been trending more that way), but I entirely agree on ultimately why he wants it (it would allow someone to tune the game more to their liking).
but probably a couple other things like enderman, which I have a data pack for currently to prevent them from griefing.
Does it also stop Sheep from ruining gardens? They can also grief which is why I kill them on sight. While they basically become my primary food source due to this, having a means to stop them without turning general Mob Griefing to off would be nice XD.
Let's remember the original context here though. The original complaint that got me to participate in the thread was that things were being found to be too gated for someone who seems to want to do very large scale building in survival. If one is expecting up front access and to a large amount of something early on in survival, the problem definitely isn't the game mode, but the players' expectations of it.
But to be fair, I don't think Agtrigormortis was expecting that anyway.
Talking with him on Discord Chats, I feel he's becoming upset good features that aren't hurting anything are being removed or nerfed without explanation to why the nerfs were implemented; or being done for 'Java Parity' while also being forced onto the Bedrock Community. For example:
1.17: Deepslate Emerald Ore is an Uncommon Block -> 1.18: Deepslate Emerald Ore is the rarest block in the game, no explanation to the change.
1.17: Big Dripleaf can be placed on almost any blocks (This can be useful for Redstone Builds via a Delay component) -> 1.18: Java Parity removed the ability to place Big Dripleaf on any Block. While most blocks could be understandable, Redstone Components such a Hoppers can no longer have a one block delay attached to it.
1.16.02 to 1.16.40: You can get Netherite Hoes and Glowstone Dust from Piglin Bartering - > 1.16.100: Netherite Hoes and Glowstone Dust were removed from Piglin Bartering, no explanation to the change.
1.13 to 1.16.221: Drowned dropped Gold Ingots - > 1.17 Drowned drop Copper Ingots, no explanation to the change.
I kinda get his vibe due to the Upgrade Templates in 1.20 as it feels the same way. No real explanation given. It comes across as "Oh look at these new cool templates as we use them as a means to make Netherite Harder to get with no explanation to that; because reasons basically." If they nerf or remove something, the change to make balance should be explained, we want to know why a good feature is being nerfed or removed. Other game titles do that, Destiny 2 is a primary example of that where if they nerf or buff an armor piece or weapon, they explain it in detail, the stat changes and why it was implemented as a means of balance.
And using the Gold Ingot to Copper Ingot transition with the Drowned Drops, this is why he worries where if he makes plans for a build one day, such as a large powered rail system. From an older 1.16 world that he had, he was relying on the Drowned to provide the Gold Ingots for it, but then Mojang did the nerf in 1.17 before he could get enough. He worries he can't keep plans solidified for his builds because Mojang does changes like these and won't even explain them.
And it's these changes that make him and in some cases me wish that 4J Studios was still working with Mojang, because they had great features they made for Console Legacy that can provide a great Quality of Life improvements such as, Smaller Biome Size, Limited World Sizes, custom worlds (Where you choose the block layers), Reset the End, double Rail Speed, Tutorial Worlds for new players, heck even Minigames.
Does it also stop Sheep from ruining gardens? They can also grief which is why I kill them on sight. While they basically become my primary food source due to this, having a means to stop them without turning general Mob Griefing to off would be nice XD.
Talking with him on Discord Chats, I feel he's becoming upset good features that aren't hurting anything are being removed or nerfed without explanation to why the nerfs were implemented; or being done for 'Java Parity' while also being forced onto the Bedrock Community. For example:
1.17: Deepslate Emerald Ore is an Uncommon Block -> 1.18: Deepslate Emerald Ore is the rarest block in the game, no explanation to the change.
1.17: Big Dripleaf can be placed on almost any blocks (This can be useful for Redstone Builds via a Delay component) -> 1.18: Java Parity removed the ability to place Big Dripleaf on any Block. While most blocks could be understandable, Redstone Components such a Hoppers can no longer have a one block delay attached to it.
1.16.02 to 1.16.40: You can get Netherite Hoes and Glowstone Dust from Piglin Bartering - > 1.16.100: Netherite Hoes and Glowstone Dust were removed from Piglin Bartering, no explanation to the change.
1.13 to 1.16.221: Drowned dropped Gold Ingots - > 1.17 Drowned drop Copper Ingots, no explanation to the change.
I kinda get his vibe due to the Upgrade Templates in 1.20 as it feels the same way. No real explanation given. It comes across as "Oh look at these new cool templates as we use them as a means to make Netherite Harder to get with no explanation to that; because reasons basically." If they nerf or remove something, the change to make balance should be explained, we want to know why a good feature is being nerfed or removed. Other game titles do that, Destiny 2 is a primary example of that where if they nerf or buff an armor piece or weapon, they explain it in detail, the stat changes and why it was implemented as a means of balance.
And using the Gold Ingot to Copper Ingot transition with the Drowned Drops, this is why he worries where if he makes plans for a build one day, such as a large powered rail system. From an older 1.16 world that he had, he was relying on the Drowned to provide the Gold Ingots for it, but then Mojang did the nerf in 1.17 before he could get enough. He worries he can't keep plans solidified for his builds because Mojang does changes like these and won't even explain them.
And it's these changes that make him and in some cases me wish that 4J Studios was still working with Mojang, because they had great features they made for Console Legacy that can provide a great Quality of Life improvements such as, Smaller Biome Size, Limited World Sizes, custom worlds (Where you choose the block layers), Reset the End, double Rail Speed, Tutorial Worlds for new players, heck even Minigames.
And I was talking with a friend on Facebook call just earlier about templates requiring diamonds for each use. He is now put off by the fact that we will be spending more time in caves or strip mining for diamonds, just for the privilege of crafting new netherite items each time.
Why this is the case? because as you told me before, the netherite upgrade templates are going to be one time use items, meaning they absolutely have to be duplicated with diamonds if players wish to continue using them. As if it was bad enough that some of the Bastions are not guaranteed to have them in their loot chests. I don't have the exact figures on me, but I am willing to bet at least 30% of the community will not like this feature one bit.
I didn't mind the templates for the purposes of armour trims, that is to customize the look or patterns on each individual armour plate you needed to craft a template for that purpose, giving various other blocks in the game some kind of use, but some resources in the game are simply not renewable, forcing players to mine for them when, for some survival players, they would like to be able to do other things with their time and the goodies they collected.
For the time being mending can be used to keep gear forever, if used responsibly, however it is a nuanced problem, some things that happen in the game are not even the player's fault. Remember that time on one of our older worlds when a Ghast shot you from underneath a cliffside, without you even hearing one even with your speakers turned up? you couldn't have known where the Ghast was at the time, never mind if one was shooting at the netherrack platform from beneath you which caused you to die and lose your stuff. If your game controller disconnects because of a technical issue with it or the system you're using it with, yes this can even happen on wired game controllers sometimes and official Microsoft Xbox controllers even as had happened to me a few times, if you haven't even had you gamepad for 5 years, never mind 10, it's inexcusable, I remember retro game controllers like ones used on Nintendo 64 and Sega Genesis being better built than this, while they too can occasionally disconnect randomly, it's rare that they do unless they are very old or badly damaged, which they would be long before now.
Then there's other issues with the game itself besides audio glitched mobs, not hardware or driver/firmware related faults, such as Ender Chest items vanishing and gamers being assigned a different in-game ID associated with their gamertag as a result of an error, potentially resulting in loss of extremely rare valuables such as the Dragon Egg and even the Elytra, both of which are uncraftable and non farmable.
These are some examples where unfairness could result in people getting frustrated and it doesn't make things any better for us when the resources you lost become much harder to obtain as a result of an update imposed on you.
If the templates themselves were reusable, I would've been more accepting of this and so would you and other people I play with as well as other people on this forum, but the fact that they are one time use items forcing players to go out of their way to mine for more diamonds if they wish to craft additional sets of netherite gear, it's going to discourage some people from even making the attempt, some people would end up just using iron or diamond gear instead, but iron sucks late game, which is why I suggested adding steel to the game as a compromise so people could upgrade Iron gear using coal on the Smithing table to increase their base durability from 250 to 750, so players could get more use out of iron gear late game. We are not even given that much, so it is clear Mojang doesn't care about the casual player base anymore.
They clearly also never even thought about the problem of Minecraft worlds people had played on for long periods of time, where all or most of the nearest Nether bastions had already been raided by multiple players on a server, and because those Bastions are not newly generated ones, they will not have the features from 1.20, which mean you guessed it, no netherite upgrade templates. It's idiotic that we are even having to put up with this and the fans don't seem to be doing enough to protest these decisions.
Does it also stop Sheep from ruining gardens? They can also grief which is why I kill them on sight. While they basically become my primary food source due to this, having a means to stop them without turning general Mob Griefing to off would be nice XD.
It doesn't. The only changes I've noticed are to enderman, and it does what it says; it stops them from picking up blocks.
I have noticed what appears to be a subtle behavioral change with them as well though (or maybe I'm imagining it). Usually, enderman would commonly be seen around given spots in the nether, and I might have to watch where I'm looking going through there to avoid looking at one. Since I started using the data pack, I notice very few are around there. And in addition, they seem to congregate a bit more in certain spots and then stay there. It's like they teleport/move around less?
My offhand guess (without knowing how their AI operates) is that the datapack only preventing them from picking up blocks, but there's AI behaviors that rely on this action, and since it'd not being done, it affects their behavior?
But it's a really subtle thing so it's not a big deal to me. Otherwise it works perfectly.
Now before data packs, I had to resort to the game rule for mob griefing. That one came with all those other side effects, like creepers (and ghasts and withers) not causing explosion damage. I'm glad data packs are a thing, because that wouldn't be a feasible solution anymore now that villagers tend to crops, but at the same time I can not tolerate enderman without that change. I understand it's one of their iconic things, but long term it really starts becoming an eye sore on landscapes, and I disapprove of that as it doesn't require player interaction (as opposed to creepers, which happen only if you let them get right near you, so I'm okay with their griefing).
Talking with him on Discord Chats, I feel he's becoming upset good features that aren't hurting anything are being removed or nerfed without explanation to why the nerfs were implemented; or being done for 'Java Parity' while also being forced onto the Bedrock Community. For example:
1.17: Deepslate Emerald Ore is an Uncommon Block -> 1.18: Deepslate Emerald Ore is the rarest block in the game, no explanation to the change.
1.17: Big Dripleaf can be placed on almost any blocks (This can be useful for Redstone Builds via a Delay component) -> 1.18: Java Parity removed the ability to place Big Dripleaf on any Block. While most blocks could be understandable, Redstone Components such a Hoppers can no longer have a one block delay attached to it.
1.16.02 to 1.16.40: You can get Netherite Hoes and Glowstone Dust from Piglin Bartering - > 1.16.100: Netherite Hoes and Glowstone Dust were removed from Piglin Bartering, no explanation to the change.
1.13 to 1.16.221: Drowned dropped Gold Ingots - > 1.17 Drowned drop Copper Ingots, no explanation to the change.
Yes, I understand his general stance. I guess I'm just more accepting that "things change" and having to adapt and roll with it.
Some of these seem really inconsequential to me though.
Like the change for emerald ore. It might be rarer, but it was already so rare anyway. You were likely never meant to amass them only by finding them naturally. They're too rare to be able to do that anyway. You're meant to get and give them trough trading. They are a currency.
Being able to get a netherite hoe from piglin bartering seems really unnecessary. I agree with its removal to be honest. Glowstone dust is trivial to get anyway.
The drowned change was probably because they didn't want Gold to be as common anymore? I said earlier that I didn't think Mojang targeted farm behavior, but maybe this was a situation where they did. I might be biased here, as a player who thinks survival should never have its balance or changes ones that are done with farms in mind, but I don't mind this change. Gold has few real uses, crafting Golden apples being one of them. They probably wanted to encourage mining for it after the cave changes here.
I absolutely agree on the upcoming 1.20 changes to netherite upgrades needing templates though, and that it is something that is being done for the worse. I don't mind the additional step of the template itself, but they should have made ancient debris more common to keep the OVERALL time and effort the same(ish) as before. That way, the new step adds some variety in the process without just making it take longer. So I agree on this one.
And it's these changes that make him and in some cases me wish that 4J Studios was still working with Mojang, because they had great features they made for Console Legacy that can provide a great Quality of Life improvements such as, Smaller Biome Size, Limited World Sizes...
Those things in particular were just the result of having to work within the limits of the weaker hardware of the consoles though. The limited world size is one of those, and as a result of that, the structure frequency then becomes necessary due to the smaller world size.
Those console versions were basically "pre-infdev" in way. I mean they were using much newer versions but the concept of "infdev" was the "infinite" worlds as opposed to the small ones before.
I personally don't see the appeal a limited or small world at all, but I think that if the game had a plethora of options for world customization, it'd make more people happy. At one point there were world customization options, but they weren't nearly as extensive (or simple) as they could have been. Generally, more variables add to time and effort investment going forward, so I imagine that's why they didn't stay or haven't returned yet.
Aaand welp the thread is now taking me to page 1 instead of 3, so I guess that's my cue to say it's too long and vanish because glitchy forum is glitchy.
It doesn't. The only changes I've noticed are to enderman, and it does what it says; it stops them from picking up blocks.
I have noticed what appears to be a subtle behavioral change with them as well though (or maybe I'm imagining it). Usually, enderman would commonly be seen around given spots in the nether, and I might have to watch where I'm looking going through there to avoid looking at one. Since I started using the data pack, I notice very few are around there. And in addition, they seem to congregate a bit more in certain spots and then stay there. It's like they teleport/move around less?
My offhand guess (without knowing how their AI operates) is that the datapack only preventing them from picking up blocks, but there's AI behaviors that rely on this action, and since it'd not being done, it affects their behavior?
But it's a really subtle thing so it's not a big deal to me. Otherwise it works perfectly.
Now before data packs, I had to resort to the game rule for mob griefing. That one came with all those other side effects, like creepers (and ghasts and withers) not causing explosion damage. I'm glad data packs are a thing, because that wouldn't be a feasible solution anymore now that villagers tend to crops, but at the same time I can not tolerate enderman without that change. I understand it's one of their iconic things, but long term it really starts becoming an eye sore on landscapes, and I disapprove of that as it doesn't require player interaction (as opposed to creepers, which happen only if you let them get right near you, so I'm okay with their griefing).
Yes, I understand his general stance. I guess I'm just more accepting that "things change" and having to adapt and roll with it.
Some of these seem really inconsequential to me though.
Like the change for emerald ore. It might be rarer, but it was already so rare anyway. You were likely never meant to amass them only by finding them naturally. They're too rare to be able to do that anyway. You're meant to get and give them trough trading. They are a currency.
Being able to get a netherite hoe from piglin bartering seems really unnecessary. I agree with its removal to be honest. Glowstone dust is trivial to get anyway.
The drowned change was probably because they didn't want Gold to be as common anymore? I said earlier that I didn't think Mojang targeted farm behavior, but maybe this was a situation where they did. I might be biased here, as a player who thinks survival should never have its balance or changes ones that are done with farms in mind, but I don't mind this change. Gold has few real uses, crafting Golden apples being one of them. They probably wanted to encourage mining for it after the cave changes here.
I absolutely agree on the upcoming 1.20 changes to netherite upgrades needing templates though, and that it is something that is being done for the worse. I don't mind the additional step of the template itself, but they should have made ancient debris more common to keep the OVERALL time and effort the same(ish) as before. That way, the new step adds some variety in the process without just making it take longer. So I agree on this one.
Those things in particular were just the result of having to work within the limits of the weaker hardware of the consoles though. The limited world size is one of those, and as a result of that, the structure frequency then becomes necessary due to the smaller world size.
Those console versions were basically "pre-infdev" in way. I mean they were using much newer versions but the concept of "infdev" was the "infinite" worlds as opposed to the small ones before.
I personally don't see the appeal a limited or small world at all, but I think that if the game had a plethora of options for world customization, it'd make more people happy. At one point there were world customization options, but they weren't nearly as extensive (or simple) as they could have been. Generally, more variables add to time and effort investment going forward, so I imagine that's why they didn't stay or haven't returned yet.
Yay, sniffers and camels, and cherry blossoms and new bamboo stuff!
(That's incidentally one peaceful and happy looking sniffer.)
I said although not in exact words, but much implied, that if the templates were reusable then it wouldn't have been such a detrimental change, and people who had created worlds since 1.16 have unlikely had enough time to explore enough of their world for this to negatively affect them, although some might, especially if they have more than a dozen active players on their worlds, or large multiplayer servers.
In bedrock edition banner patterns are reusable, yes, even those crafted by mob heads, so as we agree, why shouldn't armour trims/templates? it is true that netherite gear has a direct impact on gameplay, but these items were already some of the most expensive in the game before 1.20. Netherite ingots require netherite scraps and gold ingots, 4 gold ingots, 4 netherite scraps per netherite ingot.
Even if the templates had been reusable the cost of duplicating them is relatively high considering they require items which are both uncommon and non renewable, that would've been costly enough on its own, but by making them one time use items, Mojang went too far with this one and they evidently have unrealistic expectations of the average user base considering not everybody has the free time to go after these materials, some people don't even get as much as 30 minutes in a day for gaming because of things like work or college. It's not about skill anymore or even patience, if anything all this is doing is giving an advantage to players who are both obsessed with the game and do have the free time to be playing it most hours of a day. Chaptmc is lucky to even get a couple hours out of his days to come on after work or during a day of the week where he has no chores left that need doing.
Eventually when you add too many cons to an item for the sake of balance, the cons end up outweighing the positives, and at that point it defeats the entire point of even adding the items. It's a similar situation with Villager trades and other resource farms, why bother adding a feature, if it just ends up being destroyed later into the game's life cycle? this is what's happening to netherite now, while not farmable, nor was it intended to be, it's not an item that comes from bartering although briefly netherite hoes were farmable from Piglin bartering, and does not come from any mob drop, both mob spawner and naturally spawned mobs, the features that people had come to love about netherite since 1.16 are slowly being eroded by Mojang's unreasonable attitude toward rebalancing.
It doesn't. The only changes I've noticed are to enderman, and it does what it says; it stops them from picking up blocks.
I have noticed what appears to be a subtle behavioral change with them as well though (or maybe I'm imagining it). Usually, enderman would commonly be seen around given spots in the nether, and I might have to watch where I'm looking going through there to avoid looking at one. Since I started using the data pack, I notice very few are around there. And in addition, they seem to congregate a bit more in certain spots and then stay there. It's like they teleport/move around less?
My offhand guess (without knowing how their AI operates) is that the datapack only preventing them from picking up blocks, but there's AI behaviors that rely on this action, and since it'd not being done, it affects their behavior?
But it's a really subtle thing so it's not a big deal to me. Otherwise it works perfectly.
Now before data packs, I had to resort to the game rule for mob griefing. That one came with all those other side effects, like creepers (and ghasts and withers) not causing explosion damage. I'm glad data packs are a thing, because that wouldn't be a feasible solution anymore now that villagers tend to crops, but at the same time I can not tolerate enderman without that change. I understand it's one of their iconic things, but long term it really starts becoming an eye sore on landscapes, and I disapprove of that as it doesn't require player interaction (as opposed to creepers, which happen only if you let them get right near you, so I'm okay with their griefing).
Alright, thank you XD. It was worth asking. It's kind of the reason why I build mostly on Mushroom Islands anymore as them sheep, they will destroy your gardens XD, they love to eat manually planted grass and double tall grass XD. On a previous server I was on, people didn't believe me sheep could do this until they built a garden and caught the sheep in the act of destroying double tall grass they placed in the garden in which they freaked out XD.
Yes, I understand his general stance. I guess I'm just more accepting that "things change" and having to adapt and roll with it.
Some of these seem really inconsequential to me though.
Like the change for emerald ore. It might be rarer, but it was already so rare anyway. You were likely never meant to amass them only by finding them naturally. They're too rare to be able to do that anyway. You're meant to get and give them trough trading. They are a currency.
Oh, I don't mine them for the emeralds themselves, I like the Ore as a Decorative Block, especially Deepslate Emerald Ore. I feel Deepslate Emerald Ore fits pretty close to what an Emerald in Matrix would represent in reallife as the Emerald specimen is generally surrounded by Opaque White Quartz and Black Mica (In rare cases Granite), and sometimes depending on where it is from have rust stains from Iron Deposits, have Pyrite Inclusions, or even Gold Inclusions. I own alot of rough emerald specimens in real life and it's just a nice thing to see XD.
It's like the rare Deepslate Coal Ore as well, which can go with Deepslate, Cobbled Deepslate, Smooth Basalt, Tuff, Polished Blackstone Buttons, and Dead Brain Coral Blocks for some shoreline builds for large jagged rocks and jetis. Sounds like a bag of Trail Mix, but with blocks XD though the end result does speak for itself XD.
Being able to get a netherite hoe from piglin bartering seems really unnecessary. I agree with its removal to be honest. Glowstone dust is trivial to get anyway.
The drowned change was probably because they didn't want Gold to be as common anymore? I said earlier that I didn't think Mojang targeted farm behavior, but maybe this was a situation where they did. I might be biased here, as a player who thinks survival should never have its balance or changes ones that are done with farms in mind, but I don't mind this change. Gold has few real uses, crafting Golden apples being one of them. They probably wanted to encourage mining for it after the cave changes here.
Well, unlike most people, I seldomly use Gold for stuff and usually end up stockpiling enough blocks for the bottom layer of a beacon XD, but I do use Glowstone in my builds. On Bedrock Edition, light can travel through slabs, stairs, and shulker boxes so I use alot of Glowstone to make hidden lighting this way and I'll admit I miss that barter deal for 4-12 Glowstone Dust as it gave me a consistent reason to use Gold for Bartering XD. Don't get me wrong, the Crying Obsidian and Soul Speed III books are also nice to get, but it was actually fun to barter Gold for Glowstone XD.
As for the Netherite Hoes, I'm just scratching my head on why this was removed, as the weight on it made it a 1.4% chance to get one and from all the bartering I did from 1.16.02 upto 1.16.100, I only ever was able to get two of them. I heard that the PvP Community wasn't happy with it being in Piglin Bartering as with how the Hoes work on Bedrock Edition with a Damage output of 4 for Netherite and Instant Swinging, it was compared to having an unenchanted Iron Sword with Extra Durability (Which if somebody actually used it like this in PvP, then tip of the hat to them for figuring out an alternative use for it).
My only thing is if they changed the Gold Drops on Drowned to Copper for Anti-Farming reasons, then Java should've gotten Bedrock Parity as well in the Nether to disallow people to build ontop of the Nether Roof so they can't build insane Automatic OP Gold/XP Farms up there.
As for the Upgrade Templates, I personally do not mind hunting them down via going to a Piglin Bastion, as I have raided many of them, and I know to take my time, cover my tracks, sometimes set traps for the Piglin, and treat it like a puzzle instead of rushing in and hoping for the best as those Piglin Brutes, they are not fun. My two concerns with the Templates is for those who aren't combat oriented and those who have really old worlds with alot of the Nether already explored as in those cases, those people are really going to have to go out of their way to get an Upgrade Template.
Those things in particular were just the result of having to work within the limits of the weaker hardware of the consoles though. The limited world size is one of those, and as a result of that, the structure frequency then becomes necessary due to the smaller world size.
Those console versions were basically "pre-infdev" in way. I mean they were using much newer versions but the concept of "infdev" was the "infinite" worlds as opposed to the small ones before.
I personally don't see the appeal a limited or small world at all, but I think that if the game had a plethora of options for world customization, it'd make more people happy. At one point there were world customization options, but they weren't nearly as extensive (or simple) as they could have been. Generally, more variables add to time and effort investment going forward, so I imagine that's why they didn't stay or haven't returned yet.
Now jokingly, I say add more Desert Wells like Youtuber IBXToycat would joke about XD. But on the matter, part of it admittingly is nolstalgia for me with some of those features (Which is why I have many Console Legacy Xbox 360 World Templates converted over to Bedrock Edition), put some of it is also efficiency. Limited size worlds were also easier to maintain and manage. It was easier to conduct team projects and even moderate. And due to limited resources, it made people think on how to effectively utilize non-renewable resources.
I also do get the structure frequency, and it was funny just to see what results you could get sometimes (Like on Bedrock Edition when the protections fail, and it mashes a bunch of structures together in one spot as a giant mess XD), such as on Seed 2020 on TU 73 where you were able to get Four Woodland Mansions within an 864 X 864 Blockspace as it's just stupid XD. On another TU 73 Seed, I had two Ocean Monuments overlap each other XD.
As for the 1.20 Stuff, I look forward to it as well. Bamboo will have more use for me now outside fuel XD, the new Mini-Signs, Camels, and the Cherry Blosson Tree, which I can't wait to go back to my Second Xbox 360 World and be able to do the Japanese Pagoda I built (Based off of the one from Metal Gear: Rising) some justice with them. I'll have to go back and look at the Jetstream Sam DLC Cutscenes and gameplay to see where they are to be placed XD.
Alright, thank you XD. It was worth asking. It's kind of the reason why I build mostly on Mushroom Islands anymore as them sheep, they will destroy your gardens XD, they love to eat manually planted grass and double tall grass XD. On a previous server I was on, people didn't believe me sheep could do this until they built a garden and caught the sheep in the act of destroying double tall grass they placed in the garden in which they freaked out XD.
Oh, I don't mine them for the emeralds themselves, I like the Ore as a Decorative Block, especially Deepslate Emerald Ore. I feel Deepslate Emerald Ore fits pretty close to what an Emerald in Matrix would represent in reallife as the Emerald specimen is generally surrounded by Opaque White Quartz and Black Mica (In rare cases Granite), and sometimes depending on where it is from have rust stains from Iron Deposits, have Pyrite Inclusions, or even Gold Inclusions. I own alot of rough emerald specimens in real life and it's just a nice thing to see XD.
It's like the rare Deepslate Coal Ore as well, which can go with Deepslate, Cobbled Deepslate, Smooth Basalt, Tuff, Polished Blackstone Buttons, and Dead Brain Coral Blocks for some shoreline builds for large jagged rocks and jetis. Sounds like a bag of Trail Mix, but with blocks XD though the end result does speak for itself XD.
Well, unlike most people, I seldomly use Gold for stuff and usually end up stockpiling enough blocks for the bottom layer of a beacon XD, but I do use Glowstone in my builds. On Bedrock Edition, light can travel through slabs, stairs, and shulker boxes so I use alot of Glowstone to make hidden lighting this way and I'll admit I miss that barter deal for 4-12 Glowstone Dust as it gave me a consistent reason to use Gold for Bartering XD. Don't get me wrong, the Crying Obsidian and Soul Speed III books are also nice to get, but it was actually fun to barter Gold for Glowstone XD.
As for the Netherite Hoes, I'm just scratching my head on why this was removed, as the weight on it made it a 1.4% chance to get one and from all the bartering I did from 1.16.02 upto 1.16.100, I only ever was able to get two of them. I heard that the PvP Community wasn't happy with it being in Piglin Bartering as with how the Hoes work on Bedrock Edition with a Damage output of 4 for Netherite and Instant Swinging, it was compared to having an unenchanted Iron Sword with Extra Durability (Which if somebody actually used it like this in PvP, then tip of the hat to them for figuring out an alternative use for it).
My only thing is if they changed the Gold Drops on Drowned to Copper for Anti-Farming reasons, then Java should've gotten Bedrock Parity as well in the Nether to disallow people to build ontop of the Nether Roof so they can't build insane Automatic OP Gold/XP Farms up there.
As for the Upgrade Templates, I personally do not mind hunting them down via going to a Piglin Bastion, as I have raided many of them, and I know to take my time, cover my tracks, sometimes set traps for the Piglin, and treat it like a puzzle instead of rushing in and hoping for the best as those Piglin Brutes, they are not fun. My two concerns with the Templates is for those who aren't combat oriented and those who have really old worlds with alot of the Nether already explored as in those cases, those people are really going to have to go out of their way to get an Upgrade Template.
Now jokingly, I say add more Desert Wells like Youtuber IBXToycat would joke about XD. But on the matter, part of it admittingly is nolstalgia for me with some of those features (Which is why I have many Console Legacy Xbox 360 World Templates converted over to Bedrock Edition), put some of it is also efficiency. Limited size worlds were also easier to maintain and manage. It was easier to conduct team projects and even moderate. And due to limited resources, it made people think on how to effectively utilize non-renewable resources.
I also do get the structure frequency, and it was funny just to see what results you could get sometimes (Like on Bedrock Edition when the protections fail, and it mashes a bunch of structures together in one spot as a giant mess XD), such as on Seed 2020 on TU 73 where you were able to get Four Woodland Mansions within an 864 X 864 Blockspace as it's just stupid XD. On another TU 73 Seed, I had two Ocean Monuments overlap each other XD.
As for the 1.20 Stuff, I look forward to it as well. Bamboo will have more use for me now outside fuel XD, the new Mini-Signs, Camels, and the Cherry Blosson Tree, which I can't wait to go back to my Second Xbox 360 World and be able to do the Japanese Pagoda I built (Based off of the one from Metal Gear: Rising) some justice with them. I'll have to go back and look at the Jetstream Sam DLC Cutscenes and gameplay to see where they are to be placed XD.
Endermen can also spawn in unlit cave systems underground, which most of the time are hidden from view unless a player goes out of their way to look for them within their territory which they are building on. Even going through the painstaking task of making sure they are all lit up is a major time sink, even more so since 1.18 ground depth had been increased, more material to dig through as well as more back tracking for repair jobs on tools.
But as you pointed out even peaceful difficulty does not prevent mob griefing, as even passive mobs like Sheep are capable of deturfing double tall grass in player gardens, generally speaking mob griefing is not liked by build style survival players for that reason, as it is often out of a player's control, or even if something could be done about it, it would take way too much time, lighting territory on the surface is already taxing depending on how large your Village is, and I am not talking Villager NPC villages, I mean player built ones, such as those Princess_Garnet shows us screenshots of sometimes.
Creepers can be stopped with light sources or transparent blocks so they cannot spawn, but until the player gets to that stage, when Creepers explode, they don't just cause items to drop, they can destroy it, which over time can leave messy craters over biomes on multiplayer servers that other players end up having to clean up. And while Wandering Traders provide podzol from time to time, and Piglin provide Gravel, effectively making dirt renewable, the problem is you may not obtain enough of it to repair what was lost through mob griefing.
Some mobs are not even stopped by light sources, Pillagers are one of the best examples of this problem, that and the potential for raids to be accidentally triggered by other players on a world means all players get punished within that zone for the actions of some. And people shouldn't have to cheat by using commands to eliminate this, 1.14 was one of my least favourite updates, because while you can farm Totem of Undying which can be useful and a life saver, I would much rather have the convenience of not having raids infiltrate player bases without their permission.
Some people would consider the act of slave trading Villagers in 1 by 2 cubicles to be unbalanced, and so this was a plausible explanation of how we ended up with the Pillager update controversy, but how else do people expect players to keep Villagers safe from hazard or attack? because of how stupid the Villager AI is, it can sometimes become necessary to cage them to preserve the trades we had unlocked, and the Pillager update does nothing to address the imbalances of Villager caging, it's replacing one problem with another. As they say two wrongs don't make a right, it is evident Mojang hasn't gotten that memo yet.
I said although not in exact words, but much implied, that if the templates were reusable then it wouldn't have been such a detrimental change, and people who had created worlds since 1.16 have unlikely had enough time to explore enough of their world for this to negatively affect them, although some might, especially if they have more than a dozen active players on their worlds, or large multiplayer servers.
In bedrock edition banner patterns are reusable, yes, even those crafted by mob heads, so as we agree, why shouldn't armour trims/templates? it is true that netherite gear has a direct impact on gameplay, but these items were already some of the most expensive in the game before 1.20. Netherite ingots require netherite scraps and gold ingots, 4 gold ingots, 4 netherite scraps per netherite ingot.
Even if the templates had been reusable the cost of duplicating them is relatively high considering they require items which are both uncommon and non renewable, that would've been costly enough on its own, but by making them one time use items, Mojang went too far with this one and they evidently have unrealistic expectations of the average user base considering not everybody has the free time to go after these materials, some people don't even get as much as 30 minutes in a day for gaming because of things like work or college. It's not about skill anymore or even patience, if anything all this is doing is giving an advantage to players who are both obsessed with the game and do have the free time to be playing it most hours of a day. Chaptmc is lucky to even get a couple hours out of his days to come on after work or during a day of the week where he has no chores left that need doing.
Eventually when you add too many cons to an item for the sake of balance, the cons end up outweighing the positives, and at that point it defeats the entire point of even adding the items. It's a similar situation with Villager trades and other resource farms, why bother adding a feature, if it just ends up being destroyed later into the game's life cycle? this is what's happening to netherite now, while not farmable, nor was it intended to be, it's not an item that comes from bartering although briefly netherite hoes were farmable from Piglin bartering, and does not come from any mob drop, both mob spawner and naturally spawned mobs, the features that people had come to love about netherite since 1.16 are slowly being eroded by Mojang's unreasonable attitude toward rebalancing.
I don't deny that 1.20 has some positives, all I was saying is the negatives about it depending on individual player preferences, it can feel like an unwelcome change for some people. No one would complain about the addition of Cherry Blossom trees, the bamboo raft, chiseled bookshelves which themselves could be used to store enchanted books and thus have some potential to be made to improve the mechanics of the enchantment table going forward, even though they will not affect the enchantment table in 1.20.
I've had a discussion with friends about how making it a requirement to find mending books in dungeons before they could be farmed through trades, would be a welcomed addition if it were to happen, as it would mean treasure finds become special again, without ruining the overall experience of people who find these enchantments useful, making certain kinds of powerful enchantments only unlockable by master level trade wouldn't hurt either, but they have to be guaranteed to be high grade enchantments, not rip players off by giving them even the slightest probability of having a cursed book with level 5 Villagers, under no circumstances should bad RNG be the reason why a player failed at obtaining something valuable, big reward should be based upon effort and patience, not dumb luck or time wasting, the latter which Mojang is obsessed in doing to people, seeing as some Bastions only have a chance to even have a Netherite upgrade template in their chests, they are not guaranteed unless it is a treasure bastion, and because the templates are not reusable and that they are very risky to obtain, for a lack of a better explanation or term, they suck.
The chiseled bookshelves themselves could also be made at a later time to change the mechanics of the enchantment table,
making some other enchantments more likely to show up than other's, but with a penalty of -7 to -10 XP levels per book, bringing the maximum cost of level 3 enchantments to level 40. Again depending on what enchantments become allowed or disallowed on the enchantment table, this could improve the mechanics of treasure finds, mending could also be added to the table with this.
My point is progression should be rewarded, not penalized and people envying over what somebody else has does not justify a nerf to anything,
just as stealing is not justified, regardless of the intention.
I've had a discussion with friends about how making it a requirement to find mending books in dungeons before they could be farmed through trades, would be a welcomed addition if it were to happen, as it would mean treasure finds become special again, without ruining the overall experience of people who find these enchantments useful
Not in my case, it would ruin the entire experience for me if I couldn't make my caving gear before I started caving, and with how much I use them there is simply no option to not use Mending, they would be used up in no time flat.
Do you have any idea how rare it is to actually find an enchantment in a dungeon or other structure? I have a lot of experience here:
425 out of 449 sessions spent caving; 1642.08 out of 1744.56 hours
24 Smelting books
22 Vein Miner books
16 Swift Sneak books
14 Long Fall books
14 Mending books
So, I found 14 Mending books in 1,137 structures, that's an average of 81 structures per book; if you go by the number of chests (about 2,653) then I searched about 190 chests per book. Put another way, I spent about 1,642 hours caving, for an average of 117 hours per book, which itself is probably more caving than 99% of players ever do - in all their time playing the game. Simply not practical at all, even if I eventually found enough to make all my gear.
Furthermore, there is a higher chance of finding enchanted books, with less books overall, in a dungeon chest than there is in the latest version, and dungeons are about twice as common (they were made twice as rare in 1.7) - even with all that it takes close to 5 real-time days of extreme caving to find a particular enchantment:
TMCW dungeon
Chance of a golden apple per chest is 7.11163%; average number per chest is 0.0736319
Chance of a notch apple per chest is 0.81815%; average number per chest is 0.0082139
Chance of an enchanted book per chest is 19.73804%; average number per chest is 0.2184548
Chance of amethyst horse armor per chest is 2.6941%; average number per chest is 0.0272964
Average number of items per chest is 8.133591
Even my "Smelting" and "Vein Miner" enchantments, which only generate in loot chests and are more common in "double dungeons" are still very rare by most standards:
It only took about 200 hours of caving over nearly two months but I now have the ultimate mining enchantment:
(and even then that was only level 1, with level 2 being the max and being twice as effective)
As I noted in the previous post:
Also, this illustrates the issue of making certain items only obtainable via random chest loot - you could just as well search 10 times as much and not find anything; for comparison, I've found 5 amethyst horse armor, 4 enchanted golden apples, 3 Mending books, and 2 Smelting books, and the average probability of finding any one of 27 enchantments in a dungeon (0.218 enchanted books per chest * 1.65 chests per dungeon) is about 1.33%, or an average of 75 dungeons, of which I've found about two per day. Double dungeons have a 25% chance of having either Smelting or Vein Miner added to the first chest placed and have an average of 2.65 chests for a 14.6% chance of each enchantment but they are only about 5.8% of all dungeons.
Remember too that in vanilla 1.6.4 I can just rename my items to keep the prior work penalty from increasing (which is also how my version of Mending works, the biggest reason Mojang's is so overpowered is because you only need to pick up XP, no resources/anvils*), making it incredibly easy to get everlasting gear even when compared to spawning next to a village with a Mending villager so you literally just need to collect emeralds and books to buy them.
*At the same time, you apparently find it too hard to have to occasionally get more resources to maintain your gear, even though an hour of branch-mining can yield a months worth of diamonds even with the way I burn through my gear (5,000 blocks mined per session vs 150,000 blocks of uses from 1 hour of branch-mining at the rate of 2 seconds per block, which can easily be 1 second; 150,000 blocks is 30 days of pickaxe uses, plus about the same amount for everything else).
Not in my case, it would ruin the entire experience for me if I couldn't make my caving gear before I started caving, and with how much I use them there is simply no option to not use Mending, they would be used up in no time flat.
Do you have any idea how rare it is to actually find an enchantment in a dungeon or other structure? I have a lot of experience here:
So, I found 14 Mending books in 1,137 structures, that's an average of 81 structures per book; if you go by the number of chests (about 2,653) then I searched about 190 chests per book. Put another way, I spent about 1,642 hours caving, for an average of 117 hours per book, which itself is probably more caving than 99% of players ever do - in all their time playing the game. Simply not practical at all, even if I eventually found enough to make all my gear.
Furthermore, there is a higher chance of finding enchanted books, with less books overall, in a dungeon chest than there is in the latest version, and dungeons are about twice as common (they were made twice as rare in 1.7) - even with all that it takes close to 5 real-time days of extreme caving to find a particular enchantment:
Even my "Smelting" and "Vein Miner" enchantments, which only generate in loot chests and are more common in "double dungeons" are still very rare by most standards:
(and even then that was only level 1, with level 2 being the max and being twice as effective)
As I noted in the previous post:
Remember too that in vanilla 1.6.4 I can just rename my items to keep the prior work penalty from increasing (which is also how my version of Mending works, the biggest reason Mojang's is so overpowered is because you only need to pick up XP, no resources/anvils*), making it incredibly easy to get everlasting gear even when compared to spawning next to a village with a Mending villager so you literally just need to collect emeralds and books to buy them.
*At the same time, you apparently find it too hard to have to occasionally get more resources to maintain your gear, even though an hour of branch-mining can yield a months worth of diamonds even with the way I burn through my gear (5,000 blocks mined per session vs 150,000 blocks of uses from 1 hour of branch-mining at the rate of 2 seconds per block, which can easily be 1 second; 150,000 blocks is 30 days of pickaxe uses, plus about the same amount for everything else).
When people have to spend resources to maintain their equipment, especially if the resource cost becomes proportional to crafting a newer piece of equipment such as in the case of a pickaxe, at that point you may as well just craft and enchant another set of pickaxes if you're going to be charged 3 ingots or diamonds for a full repair each time.
Of course mending allows for repair by XP orbs, that's its intended function, if it wasn't, Mojang wouldn't have had this feature in the game for as long as they did and they are acutely aware of what a grind survival would be without this and why pro mending people are so defensive of its function.
Imagine mending requiring resources each time with netherite equipment, and that resource required for maintaining them was netherite ingots, do you have any idea how hard it is to amass a large quantity of ancient debris? and that's not including the requirement of then mining for gold or obtaining enough of it from Zombified Piglin drops to then craft the netherite ingot afterwards.
As another poster in a different thread stated before, without mending, netherite gear is effectively dead, there wouldn't be much point in going for it if a lot of players were then unable to keep using this legendary gear they had earned by playing by the legitimate rules of survival.
Above all, what do you do with your time in the game other than mining for resources? what do you use them for, exactly? because if all you use them for is maintaining your gear and surviving against hostile and neutral mobs, then you're missing the bigger picture here.
Not everybody who plays survival does so for the same reasons you do, you need to look at it from other perspectives also, building, depending on the size and scale of it, is VERY costly on resources in the game, and to have to be able to collect enough of it in the first place you need tools that are capable of lasting long enough to get the job done.
I don't care how you try to wordplay this one, as you had done for years now, or what figures you come up with to try to justify your position, the fact is there comes a point where having to backtrack too often to do repairs or equipment replacement becomes annoying for people. Build style survival players generally like to keep what they had earned or use the materials they collected on permanent structures or items, because it gives them more freedom in what projects they can undertake and when you keep punishing them for that, that is going to provoke a reaction from them that you may not like or understand.
Aaand welp the thread is now taking me to page 1 instead of 3, so I guess that's my cue to say it's too long and vanish because glitchy forum is glitchy.
I said although not in exact words, but much implied, that if the templates were reusable then it wouldn't have been such a detrimental change, and people who had created worlds since 1.16 have unlikely had enough time to explore enough of their world for this to negatively affect them, although some might, especially if they have more than a dozen active players on their worlds, or large multiplayer servers.
Yeah, the templates being reusable would go a long way towards justifying it too.
I was just stating that I don't mind the addition of the template itself, at least not the requirement of needing it as a step to get netherite, but I disagree with the added time and effort needed. If they counteracted this by making the ancient debris more common, it would have made the extra time/effort needed for the new template be balanced out relative to the investment that is needed now before 1.20.
Basically, neat item and idea, but poorly implemented in regards to current balance.
Above all, what do you do with your time in the game other than mining for resources? what do you use them for, exactly? because if all you use them for is maintaining your gear and surviving against hostile and neutral mobs, then you're missing the bigger picture here.
Yes, millions - the ratio between what I find and what I need is simply silly. Chests full of diamond blocks, without using Fortune? Yes!
An updated screenshot of my statistics (blocks crafted; once I craft a mineral block I consider it to be permanent, with the exception of a few hundred iron blocks used for anvils and a few hundred redstone blocks for railways I have this many in storage):
In fact, considering that over half my playtime has been in other worlds I could have mined over 15 million resources across all of my worlds combined - an absolutely incomprehensible number. Some more examples of my caving insanity:
That's right, I mine more than three thousand ores per play session, per day. Multiply that by the number of days in a year and you get well over a million ore mined per year, which is very likely accurate for at least the past year, since 1.6 came out with the block of coal; in the first month after I mined more than 10,000 blocks worth of coal alone
Also, in the post where I took the screenshot of a chest of diamond blocks from I noted this:
For perspective, this is an average of about 4.6 diamonds collected and 4.1 diamond ore mined per hour spent caving, which is actually very low when compared to an effective branch-mining strategy (data on the Wiki indicates that you could mine close to a stack of ore per hour if you mined one block per second; 3600 * 0.017 = 61.2). Also, I've mined an average of 269 blocks per diamond ore, based on blocks mined with a diamond pickaxe (I still use iron pickaxes taken from minecarts to dig tunnels for railways), compared to as little as 59 when branch-mining.
In other words, my caving is extremely inefficient (for resources other than coal and iron), yet I've managed to accumulate unheard of amounts of resources (I haven't used Fortune either except for the first few months, out of years of playing on the world, so it hardly matters by now).
Also, I've mentioned countless times just how little mining you actually need to do in order to repair your gear, and no, it is absolutely not fair to claim "you may as well just enchant and replace your gear instead of repairing it"; what about all the time spent on enchanting?
I finally enchanted all of my "caving gear", as well as a few other items - which required mining a total of 15,618 quartz, the most that I've ever mined in any world (I mined 13,746 in TMCWv3 and 10,345 in TMCWv4). I also mined 10,000 netherrack, also the most that I've ever mined (compared to 5,719 in TMCWv3 and 3,801 in TMCWv4) ... up to this point I'd gained a total of 72,507 XP from all sources, which means that about 75% of the XP I gained came from quartz).
Some maps showing how much I explored in the Nether:
This is a level 3 map (1024x1024 blocks), using a special "cave map" which can map the Nether, but only if you light up the area with torches, of which I placed around 4,000:
A rendering of the Nether at layer 64; most of the lit-up areas are from torches I placed; there are also more caves than in vanilla (IDK about the latest versions, which I do know have ravines, which I added as well, in a wider range of sizes):
The interruption on Day 38 was due to returning to the Nether so I could make a new pickaxe with the Smelting book I found earlier (I've since found another one); this also shows just how much XP I may spend to enchant a single item (9360 XP from 2564 quartz, gold, and mobs)
Imagine if I had to do that every few days, even just for my pickaxe (less often for other items)! Yes, enchanting is a lot cheaper in newer versions but I'd still have to go out of my way to replace items. At the same time, having to get more netherite would not bother me that much after having done the calculations, and I really only see it worth using for swords since you can kill zombies in two non-critical hits (no thanks to 1.9 nerfing swords and Sharpness so a Sharpness V diamond sword deals only 10 damage instead of 14.25, and a zombie can take up to 21.74 damage due to their innate armor, while a Sharpness V netherite sword deals 22 damage in two hits).
Anyway, Mojang hasn't made any statements to suggest that they will nerf Mending and they surely know how disruptive it would be if they changed it - they have even intentionally not fixed actual bugs because they know it would upset too many players!
The other week, the aggro bugs were brought up for discussion, and we decided that while we could fix the aggro bugs, they were also linked to the XP glitch, and that it is too late in the cycle to change that - so the task at hand was "fix aggro, make sure to not break farms". Obviously that didn't happen either, and as a result we're going to fix it by basically adding back the glitch.
Also, the most insane thing about this bug is when it was first reported - not a full release but a snapshot (early developmental version) - if they had fixed it right away nobody would have ever come to depend on it:
Did you know that boats moving too fast on ice was considered to be a bug for several years before they decided it was now a feature, probably since fixing it would anger too many players who'd built extensive transportation networks using it?
(unfortunately archive.org didn't archive this page until 2020 but it was open as unresolved for a few years)
The item renaming bug that indefinitely kept the prior work penalty from increasing likely fell into these categories as well, not "fixed" until they completely overhauled how anvils work (if they had added Mending at the same time and not one (very delayed) version later I wouldn't have had such an issue with this - it is important that changes like this have a suitable replacement right away).
Not in my case, it would ruin the entire experience for me if I couldn't make my caving gear before I started caving, and with how much I use them there is simply no option to not use Mending, they would be used up in no time flat.
Do you have any idea how rare it is to actually find an enchantment in a dungeon or other structure? I have a lot of experience here:
So, I found 14 Mending books in 1,137 structures, that's an average of 81 structures per book; if you go by the number of chests (about 2,653) then I searched about 190 chests per book. Put another way, I spent about 1,642 hours caving, for an average of 117 hours per book, which itself is probably more caving than 99% of players ever do - in all their time playing the game. Simply not practical at all, even if I eventually found enough to make all my gear.
Furthermore, there is a higher chance of finding enchanted books, with less books overall, in a dungeon chest than there is in the latest version, and dungeons are about twice as common (they were made twice as rare in 1.7) - even with all that it takes close to 5 real-time days of extreme caving to find a particular enchantment:
Even my "Smelting" and "Vein Miner" enchantments, which only generate in loot chests and are more common in "double dungeons" are still very rare by most standards:
(and even then that was only level 1, with level 2 being the max and being twice as effective)
As I noted in the previous post:
Remember too that in vanilla 1.6.4 I can just rename my items to keep the prior work penalty from increasing (which is also how my version of Mending works, the biggest reason Mojang's is so overpowered is because you only need to pick up XP, no resources/anvils*), making it incredibly easy to get everlasting gear even when compared to spawning next to a village with a Mending villager so you literally just need to collect emeralds and books to buy them.
*At the same time, you apparently find it too hard to have to occasionally get more resources to maintain your gear, even though an hour of branch-mining can yield a months worth of diamonds even with the way I burn through my gear (5,000 blocks mined per session vs 150,000 blocks of uses from 1 hour of branch-mining at the rate of 2 seconds per block, which can easily be 1 second; 150,000 blocks is 30 days of pickaxe uses, plus about the same amount for everything else).
I can vouch on the difficulty for finding enchanted books in structures to prove your point on that aspect. From my experience, Abandoned Mineshafts and Stronghold Libraries have the best odds overall at finding enchanted books as loot. Most other structures seldomly offer them, and in the rare instance that you do find them in most structures, the enchantments are Subpar, like Protection I, Riptide I, Looting I, etc.
While Abandoned Mineshafts have an increased odds at finding them(Due to all the Minecart with chests as well as generated Dungeons), the enchanted books found tend to suffer the same subpar quality issue. Now Stronghold Libraries, they offer some potent enchanted books when found, equivilant to a Level 30 Enchantment off of the Enchantment Table, which is nice, but that is kind of a reward for finding the Stronghold XD.
Now when you talk about Custom Enchants like Vein Miner, are you using Aulixor's EcoEnchants or is that your own variant of the Vein Miner CE? They have some fun CEs like Vein Miner, Blast Mining, Infernal Touch (Smelting), Indestructibility (Max Level of VI adds a 7X Multiplier to an item's durability), and Repairing (Which makes Mending look Obsolete).
While on the topic, how does your variant of Mending work with things like Fishing Rods, Tridents, and Turtle Shells (if they're even accessible in your gameplay due to the version you play on)?
Still works if I press page 3 button from within the subforum thread links. Not from the main forum listing which defaults to page 1. So I guess it's just a question of how I access it. Still, bigger threads bug out on me sometimes.
While Abandoned Mineshafts have an increased odds at finding them(Due to all the Minecart with chests as well as generated Dungeons), the enchanted books found tend to suffer the same subpar quality issue. Now Stronghold Libraries, they offer some potent enchanted books when found, equivilant to a Level 30 Enchantment off of the Enchantment Table, which is nice, but that is kind of a reward for finding the Stronghold XD.
Most enchanted books found in loot chests are randomly enchanted at any level, not as they would be on the table - you are just as likely to find Protection I as Protection IV (however, this does mean that Protection IV is less likely than say, Knockback II, which is in turn less likely than Silk Touch, i.e. the chance of a specific level deceases as the number of levels increases). The Wiki does indicate that books in libraries are enchanted at level 30 (this is not the case in older versions) but this is actually a negative:
All enchantments are equally probable, including treasure enchantments (except Soul Speed, and Swift Sneak), and any level of the enchantment is equally probable.
Enchantment probabilities are the same as a level-30 enchantment on an enchantment table that was able to apply treasure enchantments (except Soul Speed, and Swift Sneak), and where the chance of multiple enchantments is not reduced.
Enchantment probability calculator (select book and click on search under XP to use, defaulting to 30. You do get a selection of various enchantments at moderately high levels, like Protection III (8.7%), but more valuable enchantments like Fortune (2.2%) or Silk Touch (1.1%) are rarer than they would be if randomly chosen and unlikely to be at their maximum levels, and multiple enchantments per book means you'll probably have to discard some):
Now when you talk about Custom Enchants like Vein Miner, are you using Aulixor's EcoEnchants or is that your own variant of the Vein Miner CE? They have some fun CEs like Vein Miner, Blast Mining, Infernal Touch (Smelting), Indestructibility (Max Level of VI adds a 7X Multiplier to an item's durability), and Repairing (Which makes Mending look Obsolete).
TheMasterCaver's World (TMCW) is a standalone mod entirely of my own creation (aside from stuff I've ported from newer/older versions, and code taken from the bug tracker and various open-source bugfix mods), it isn't even a traditional mod but a "modded client" (i.e. a "jar" mod, where you add a bunch of files directly to the jar and delete META-INF, and which directly alters the game's code, as opposed to using Forge or another modloader, which makes it totally incompatible with anything else, even Optifine (I actually added my own features based on it, and far more extensive optimizations) - you can read the link in my signature for details). Anything that I mention which is not "vanilla" is all my own, and with the exception of a small handful of mods I've never played anything else (I'd never heard of "Aulixor's EcoEnchants" until now, and most likely any other mod you mention unless it was a famous one like Orespawn).
While on the topic, how does your variant of Mending work with things like Fishing Rods, Tridents, and Turtle Shells (if they're even accessible in your gameplay due to the version you play on)?
Mending works just like renaming an item did prior to 1.8, including tridents and turtle helmets if I ever added them (mentioning fishing rods seems a bit odd given they were added all the way back in Alpha) - it stops the prior work penalty from increasing and works on any item with durability (and even without, if applied to them in Creative, but that usually doesn't matter since I made renaming cost only 1 level and not affect the prior work penalty, as was done in newer versions. And yes, this includes Infinity bows, which IMO were nerfed to "patch" a popular exploit where a bow with Mending, Punch, and Infinity was used as a boost when flying with an elytra (you fired arrows at minimum charge, which would travel slower than you and thus hit you and knock you "back" in the direction they were moving, which in this case boosts your forward movement); the only "exclusions" are when adding too many enchantments to an item would make it too expensive to repair (if you try adding Mending to such an item it will be rejected as too expensive even if the cost of adding it would be less than the limit as I internally calculate the repair cost after it is added):
If the item has been renamed at any point, the penalty is always 2 levels, regardless of further alterations.
One difference from vanilla is that I set the penalty to 0 instead of 2 and removed the charge for the number of enchantments in the "base cost" calculation, except when adding or combining enchantments. For an item with 3 enchantments this is 6 levels, so the removal of both offsets the cost of Mending itself, which is 8 levels and factors into all anvil work costs, including repairing.
I also have another mechanic where you can use rubies (a mod item based on the unused vanilla item texture, which is actually still in the jar for 1.6.4) to reduce the penalty by 6 levels per ruby, enabling indefinite repairs of items which would be too expensive to put Mending on, at the expense of having to use a uncommon biome-specific resource and additional anvil uses (in particular, I used them to repair my Smelting and Vein Miner pickaxes, which cost 43-45-47 levels per repair before using a ruby to reset it back to 43. If you are wondering, the 40+ level cost is because of my amethyst items (no relation at all to the material added in 1.17, I added amethyst back in 2014), which can cost up to 49 levels instead of 39 (for other items) due to their higher durability, 3 times that of diamond, which directly affects repair costs (even vanilla diamond items can cost up to 17 levels for the actual repair, unit repairs are cheaper and are the only way amethyst items can be repaired, but only restore 1/4 the full durability, thus you actually get less uses out of a repair compared to diamond. However, incremental repairing means I never have to worry about dropping down to 0 durability).
Still works if I press page 3 button from within the subforum thread links. Not from the main forum listing which defaults to page 1. So I guess it's just a question of how I access it. Still, bigger threads bug out on me sometimes.
I haven't experienced this issue but have you been getting "forbidden" errors when trying to post lately? I've been getting them all the time (including my last post; even the preview button brings up an error) and have to open somebody's profile in another tab to stop it (you get a browser security check screen the first time you do this in a while and I'm guessing the same thing happens with comments but since it can't properly display the screen it throws an error),
Let's remember the original context here though. The original complaint that got me to participate in the thread was that things were being found to be too gated for someone who seems to want to do very large scale building in survival. If one is expecting up front access and to a large amount of something early on in survival, the problem definitely isn't the game mode, but the players' expectations of it.
But to be fair, I don't think Agtrigormortis was expecting that anyway. I disagree on the notion that nerfs are making the game less accessible in survival, but it sounds to me like what he personally wants is something between creative and survival. Basically survival but everything drops multiple amounts of itself maybe? And then some other changes to trivialize some things? Because it sounds like he wants the up front access (or at least very fast paced access) but not quite instant, infinite access to anything and everything, and it sounds like he still wants the no flight, combat, and hunger restrictions of survival. That's the impression I'm getting, and why creative isn't a perfect fit.
Changing survival across the board to accomodate that would ruin survival for the majority of players (myself included) to make a few happier. But I agree it would be a benefit if there existed more options for people to tune the details of the game to their own desires. I'd even like to do that myself, in ways (namely with the warden and accompany spawning mechanics, but probably a couple other things like enderman, which I have a data pack for currently to prevent them from griefing).
In other words, I disagree on specifically what he wants and why (I think the mode is casual and accessible enough, and has been trending more that way), but I entirely agree on ultimately why he wants it (it would allow someone to tune the game more to their liking).
Hmm, can't argue with that.
1.20 will be released on June 7
https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/trails-tales-update-coming
Does it also stop Sheep from ruining gardens? They can also grief which is why I kill them on sight. While they basically become my primary food source due to this, having a means to stop them without turning general Mob Griefing to off would be nice XD.
Talking with him on Discord Chats, I feel he's becoming upset good features that aren't hurting anything are being removed or nerfed without explanation to why the nerfs were implemented; or being done for 'Java Parity' while also being forced onto the Bedrock Community. For example:
I kinda get his vibe due to the Upgrade Templates in 1.20 as it feels the same way. No real explanation given. It comes across as "Oh look at these new cool templates as we use them as a means to make Netherite Harder to get with no explanation to that; because reasons basically." If they nerf or remove something, the change to make balance should be explained, we want to know why a good feature is being nerfed or removed. Other game titles do that, Destiny 2 is a primary example of that where if they nerf or buff an armor piece or weapon, they explain it in detail, the stat changes and why it was implemented as a means of balance.
And using the Gold Ingot to Copper Ingot transition with the Drowned Drops, this is why he worries where if he makes plans for a build one day, such as a large powered rail system. From an older 1.16 world that he had, he was relying on the Drowned to provide the Gold Ingots for it, but then Mojang did the nerf in 1.17 before he could get enough. He worries he can't keep plans solidified for his builds because Mojang does changes like these and won't even explain them.
And it's these changes that make him and in some cases me wish that 4J Studios was still working with Mojang, because they had great features they made for Console Legacy that can provide a great Quality of Life improvements such as, Smaller Biome Size, Limited World Sizes, custom worlds (Where you choose the block layers), Reset the End, double Rail Speed, Tutorial Worlds for new players, heck even Minigames.
And I was talking with a friend on Facebook call just earlier about templates requiring diamonds for each use. He is now put off by the fact that we will be spending more time in caves or strip mining for diamonds, just for the privilege of crafting new netherite items each time.
Why this is the case? because as you told me before, the netherite upgrade templates are going to be one time use items, meaning they absolutely have to be duplicated with diamonds if players wish to continue using them. As if it was bad enough that some of the Bastions are not guaranteed to have them in their loot chests. I don't have the exact figures on me, but I am willing to bet at least 30% of the community will not like this feature one bit.
I didn't mind the templates for the purposes of armour trims, that is to customize the look or patterns on each individual armour plate you needed to craft a template for that purpose, giving various other blocks in the game some kind of use, but some resources in the game are simply not renewable, forcing players to mine for them when, for some survival players, they would like to be able to do other things with their time and the goodies they collected.
For the time being mending can be used to keep gear forever, if used responsibly, however it is a nuanced problem, some things that happen in the game are not even the player's fault. Remember that time on one of our older worlds when a Ghast shot you from underneath a cliffside, without you even hearing one even with your speakers turned up? you couldn't have known where the Ghast was at the time, never mind if one was shooting at the netherrack platform from beneath you which caused you to die and lose your stuff. If your game controller disconnects because of a technical issue with it or the system you're using it with, yes this can even happen on wired game controllers sometimes and official Microsoft Xbox controllers even as had happened to me a few times, if you haven't even had you gamepad for 5 years, never mind 10, it's inexcusable, I remember retro game controllers like ones used on Nintendo 64 and Sega Genesis being better built than this, while they too can occasionally disconnect randomly, it's rare that they do unless they are very old or badly damaged, which they would be long before now.
Then there's other issues with the game itself besides audio glitched mobs, not hardware or driver/firmware related faults, such as Ender Chest items vanishing and gamers being assigned a different in-game ID associated with their gamertag as a result of an error, potentially resulting in loss of extremely rare valuables such as the Dragon Egg and even the Elytra, both of which are uncraftable and non farmable.
These are some examples where unfairness could result in people getting frustrated and it doesn't make things any better for us when the resources you lost become much harder to obtain as a result of an update imposed on you.
If the templates themselves were reusable, I would've been more accepting of this and so would you and other people I play with as well as other people on this forum, but the fact that they are one time use items forcing players to go out of their way to mine for more diamonds if they wish to craft additional sets of netherite gear, it's going to discourage some people from even making the attempt, some people would end up just using iron or diamond gear instead, but iron sucks late game, which is why I suggested adding steel to the game as a compromise so people could upgrade Iron gear using coal on the Smithing table to increase their base durability from 250 to 750, so players could get more use out of iron gear late game. We are not even given that much, so it is clear Mojang doesn't care about the casual player base anymore.
They clearly also never even thought about the problem of Minecraft worlds people had played on for long periods of time, where all or most of the nearest Nether bastions had already been raided by multiple players on a server, and because those Bastions are not newly generated ones, they will not have the features from 1.20, which mean you guessed it, no netherite upgrade templates. It's idiotic that we are even having to put up with this and the fans don't seem to be doing enough to protest these decisions.
You guys talk on discord?
It doesn't. The only changes I've noticed are to enderman, and it does what it says; it stops them from picking up blocks.
I have noticed what appears to be a subtle behavioral change with them as well though (or maybe I'm imagining it). Usually, enderman would commonly be seen around given spots in the nether, and I might have to watch where I'm looking going through there to avoid looking at one. Since I started using the data pack, I notice very few are around there. And in addition, they seem to congregate a bit more in certain spots and then stay there. It's like they teleport/move around less?
My offhand guess (without knowing how their AI operates) is that the datapack only preventing them from picking up blocks, but there's AI behaviors that rely on this action, and since it'd not being done, it affects their behavior?
But it's a really subtle thing so it's not a big deal to me. Otherwise it works perfectly.
Now before data packs, I had to resort to the game rule for mob griefing. That one came with all those other side effects, like creepers (and ghasts and withers) not causing explosion damage. I'm glad data packs are a thing, because that wouldn't be a feasible solution anymore now that villagers tend to crops, but at the same time I can not tolerate enderman without that change. I understand it's one of their iconic things, but long term it really starts becoming an eye sore on landscapes, and I disapprove of that as it doesn't require player interaction (as opposed to creepers, which happen only if you let them get right near you, so I'm okay with their griefing).
Yes, I understand his general stance. I guess I'm just more accepting that "things change" and having to adapt and roll with it.
Some of these seem really inconsequential to me though.
Like the change for emerald ore. It might be rarer, but it was already so rare anyway. You were likely never meant to amass them only by finding them naturally. They're too rare to be able to do that anyway. You're meant to get and give them trough trading. They are a currency.
Being able to get a netherite hoe from piglin bartering seems really unnecessary. I agree with its removal to be honest. Glowstone dust is trivial to get anyway.
The drowned change was probably because they didn't want Gold to be as common anymore? I said earlier that I didn't think Mojang targeted farm behavior, but maybe this was a situation where they did. I might be biased here, as a player who thinks survival should never have its balance or changes ones that are done with farms in mind, but I don't mind this change. Gold has few real uses, crafting Golden apples being one of them. They probably wanted to encourage mining for it after the cave changes here.
I absolutely agree on the upcoming 1.20 changes to netherite upgrades needing templates though, and that it is something that is being done for the worse. I don't mind the additional step of the template itself, but they should have made ancient debris more common to keep the OVERALL time and effort the same(ish) as before. That way, the new step adds some variety in the process without just making it take longer. So I agree on this one.
Those things in particular were just the result of having to work within the limits of the weaker hardware of the consoles though. The limited world size is one of those, and as a result of that, the structure frequency then becomes necessary due to the smaller world size.
Those console versions were basically "pre-infdev" in way. I mean they were using much newer versions but the concept of "infdev" was the "infinite" worlds as opposed to the small ones before.
I personally don't see the appeal a limited or small world at all, but I think that if the game had a plethora of options for world customization, it'd make more people happy. At one point there were world customization options, but they weren't nearly as extensive (or simple) as they could have been. Generally, more variables add to time and effort investment going forward, so I imagine that's why they didn't stay or haven't returned yet.
Yay, sniffers and camels, and cherry blossoms and new bamboo stuff!
(That's incidentally one peaceful and happy looking sniffer.)
Aaand welp the thread is now taking me to page 1 instead of 3, so I guess that's my cue to say it's too long and vanish because glitchy forum is glitchy.
I said although not in exact words, but much implied, that if the templates were reusable then it wouldn't have been such a detrimental change, and people who had created worlds since 1.16 have unlikely had enough time to explore enough of their world for this to negatively affect them, although some might, especially if they have more than a dozen active players on their worlds, or large multiplayer servers.
In bedrock edition banner patterns are reusable, yes, even those crafted by mob heads, so as we agree, why shouldn't armour trims/templates? it is true that netherite gear has a direct impact on gameplay, but these items were already some of the most expensive in the game before 1.20. Netherite ingots require netherite scraps and gold ingots, 4 gold ingots, 4 netherite scraps per netherite ingot.
Even if the templates had been reusable the cost of duplicating them is relatively high considering they require items which are both uncommon and non renewable, that would've been costly enough on its own, but by making them one time use items, Mojang went too far with this one and they evidently have unrealistic expectations of the average user base considering not everybody has the free time to go after these materials, some people don't even get as much as 30 minutes in a day for gaming because of things like work or college. It's not about skill anymore or even patience, if anything all this is doing is giving an advantage to players who are both obsessed with the game and do have the free time to be playing it most hours of a day. Chaptmc is lucky to even get a couple hours out of his days to come on after work or during a day of the week where he has no chores left that need doing.
Eventually when you add too many cons to an item for the sake of balance, the cons end up outweighing the positives, and at that point it defeats the entire point of even adding the items. It's a similar situation with Villager trades and other resource farms, why bother adding a feature, if it just ends up being destroyed later into the game's life cycle? this is what's happening to netherite now, while not farmable, nor was it intended to be, it's not an item that comes from bartering although briefly netherite hoes were farmable from Piglin bartering, and does not come from any mob drop, both mob spawner and naturally spawned mobs, the features that people had come to love about netherite since 1.16 are slowly being eroded by Mojang's unreasonable attitude toward rebalancing.
Alright, thank you XD. It was worth asking. It's kind of the reason why I build mostly on Mushroom Islands anymore as them sheep, they will destroy your gardens XD, they love to eat manually planted grass and double tall grass XD. On a previous server I was on, people didn't believe me sheep could do this until they built a garden and caught the sheep in the act of destroying double tall grass they placed in the garden in which they freaked out XD.
Oh, I don't mine them for the emeralds themselves, I like the Ore as a Decorative Block, especially Deepslate Emerald Ore. I feel Deepslate Emerald Ore fits pretty close to what an Emerald in Matrix would represent in reallife as the Emerald specimen is generally surrounded by Opaque White Quartz and Black Mica (In rare cases Granite), and sometimes depending on where it is from have rust stains from Iron Deposits, have Pyrite Inclusions, or even Gold Inclusions. I own alot of rough emerald specimens in real life and it's just a nice thing to see XD.
It's like the rare Deepslate Coal Ore as well, which can go with Deepslate, Cobbled Deepslate, Smooth Basalt, Tuff, Polished Blackstone Buttons, and Dead Brain Coral Blocks for some shoreline builds for large jagged rocks and jetis. Sounds like a bag of Trail Mix, but with blocks XD though the end result does speak for itself XD.
Well, unlike most people, I seldomly use Gold for stuff and usually end up stockpiling enough blocks for the bottom layer of a beacon XD, but I do use Glowstone in my builds. On Bedrock Edition, light can travel through slabs, stairs, and shulker boxes so I use alot of Glowstone to make hidden lighting this way and I'll admit I miss that barter deal for 4-12 Glowstone Dust as it gave me a consistent reason to use Gold for Bartering XD. Don't get me wrong, the Crying Obsidian and Soul Speed III books are also nice to get, but it was actually fun to barter Gold for Glowstone XD.
As for the Netherite Hoes, I'm just scratching my head on why this was removed, as the weight on it made it a 1.4% chance to get one and from all the bartering I did from 1.16.02 upto 1.16.100, I only ever was able to get two of them. I heard that the PvP Community wasn't happy with it being in Piglin Bartering as with how the Hoes work on Bedrock Edition with a Damage output of 4 for Netherite and Instant Swinging, it was compared to having an unenchanted Iron Sword with Extra Durability (Which if somebody actually used it like this in PvP, then tip of the hat to them for figuring out an alternative use for it).
My only thing is if they changed the Gold Drops on Drowned to Copper for Anti-Farming reasons, then Java should've gotten Bedrock Parity as well in the Nether to disallow people to build ontop of the Nether Roof so they can't build insane Automatic OP Gold/XP Farms up there.
As for the Upgrade Templates, I personally do not mind hunting them down via going to a Piglin Bastion, as I have raided many of them, and I know to take my time, cover my tracks, sometimes set traps for the Piglin, and treat it like a puzzle instead of rushing in and hoping for the best as those Piglin Brutes, they are not fun. My two concerns with the Templates is for those who aren't combat oriented and those who have really old worlds with alot of the Nether already explored as in those cases, those people are really going to have to go out of their way to get an Upgrade Template.
Now jokingly, I say add more Desert Wells like Youtuber IBXToycat would joke about XD. But on the matter, part of it admittingly is nolstalgia for me with some of those features (Which is why I have many Console Legacy Xbox 360 World Templates converted over to Bedrock Edition), put some of it is also efficiency. Limited size worlds were also easier to maintain and manage. It was easier to conduct team projects and even moderate. And due to limited resources, it made people think on how to effectively utilize non-renewable resources.
I also do get the structure frequency, and it was funny just to see what results you could get sometimes (Like on Bedrock Edition when the protections fail, and it mashes a bunch of structures together in one spot as a giant mess XD), such as on Seed 2020 on TU 73 where you were able to get Four Woodland Mansions within an 864 X 864 Blockspace as it's just stupid XD. On another TU 73 Seed, I had two Ocean Monuments overlap each other XD.
As for the 1.20 Stuff, I look forward to it as well. Bamboo will have more use for me now outside fuel XD, the new Mini-Signs, Camels, and the Cherry Blosson Tree, which I can't wait to go back to my Second Xbox 360 World and be able to do the Japanese Pagoda I built (Based off of the one from Metal Gear: Rising) some justice with them. I'll have to go back and look at the Jetstream Sam DLC Cutscenes and gameplay to see where they are to be placed XD.
Endermen can also spawn in unlit cave systems underground, which most of the time are hidden from view unless a player goes out of their way to look for them within their territory which they are building on. Even going through the painstaking task of making sure they are all lit up is a major time sink, even more so since 1.18 ground depth had been increased, more material to dig through as well as more back tracking for repair jobs on tools.
But as you pointed out even peaceful difficulty does not prevent mob griefing, as even passive mobs like Sheep are capable of deturfing double tall grass in player gardens, generally speaking mob griefing is not liked by build style survival players for that reason, as it is often out of a player's control, or even if something could be done about it, it would take way too much time, lighting territory on the surface is already taxing depending on how large your Village is, and I am not talking Villager NPC villages, I mean player built ones, such as those Princess_Garnet shows us screenshots of sometimes.
Creepers can be stopped with light sources or transparent blocks so they cannot spawn, but until the player gets to that stage, when Creepers explode, they don't just cause items to drop, they can destroy it, which over time can leave messy craters over biomes on multiplayer servers that other players end up having to clean up. And while Wandering Traders provide podzol from time to time, and Piglin provide Gravel, effectively making dirt renewable, the problem is you may not obtain enough of it to repair what was lost through mob griefing.
Some mobs are not even stopped by light sources, Pillagers are one of the best examples of this problem, that and the potential for raids to be accidentally triggered by other players on a world means all players get punished within that zone for the actions of some. And people shouldn't have to cheat by using commands to eliminate this, 1.14 was one of my least favourite updates, because while you can farm Totem of Undying which can be useful and a life saver, I would much rather have the convenience of not having raids infiltrate player bases without their permission.
Some people would consider the act of slave trading Villagers in 1 by 2 cubicles to be unbalanced, and so this was a plausible explanation of how we ended up with the Pillager update controversy, but how else do people expect players to keep Villagers safe from hazard or attack? because of how stupid the Villager AI is, it can sometimes become necessary to cage them to preserve the trades we had unlocked, and the Pillager update does nothing to address the imbalances of Villager caging, it's replacing one problem with another. As they say two wrongs don't make a right, it is evident Mojang hasn't gotten that memo yet.
I don't deny that 1.20 has some positives, all I was saying is the negatives about it depending on individual player preferences, it can feel like an unwelcome change for some people. No one would complain about the addition of Cherry Blossom trees, the bamboo raft, chiseled bookshelves which themselves could be used to store enchanted books and thus have some potential to be made to improve the mechanics of the enchantment table going forward, even though they will not affect the enchantment table in 1.20.
I've had a discussion with friends about how making it a requirement to find mending books in dungeons before they could be farmed through trades, would be a welcomed addition if it were to happen, as it would mean treasure finds become special again, without ruining the overall experience of people who find these enchantments useful, making certain kinds of powerful enchantments only unlockable by master level trade wouldn't hurt either, but they have to be guaranteed to be high grade enchantments, not rip players off by giving them even the slightest probability of having a cursed book with level 5 Villagers, under no circumstances should bad RNG be the reason why a player failed at obtaining something valuable, big reward should be based upon effort and patience, not dumb luck or time wasting, the latter which Mojang is obsessed in doing to people, seeing as some Bastions only have a chance to even have a Netherite upgrade template in their chests, they are not guaranteed unless it is a treasure bastion, and because the templates are not reusable and that they are very risky to obtain, for a lack of a better explanation or term, they suck.
The chiseled bookshelves themselves could also be made at a later time to change the mechanics of the enchantment table,
making some other enchantments more likely to show up than other's, but with a penalty of -7 to -10 XP levels per book, bringing the maximum cost of level 3 enchantments to level 40. Again depending on what enchantments become allowed or disallowed on the enchantment table, this could improve the mechanics of treasure finds, mending could also be added to the table with this.
My point is progression should be rewarded, not penalized and people envying over what somebody else has does not justify a nerf to anything,
just as stealing is not justified, regardless of the intention.
Not in my case, it would ruin the entire experience for me if I couldn't make my caving gear before I started caving, and with how much I use them there is simply no option to not use Mending, they would be used up in no time flat.
Do you have any idea how rare it is to actually find an enchantment in a dungeon or other structure? I have a lot of experience here:
So, I found 14 Mending books in 1,137 structures, that's an average of 81 structures per book; if you go by the number of chests (about 2,653) then I searched about 190 chests per book. Put another way, I spent about 1,642 hours caving, for an average of 117 hours per book, which itself is probably more caving than 99% of players ever do - in all their time playing the game. Simply not practical at all, even if I eventually found enough to make all my gear.
Furthermore, there is a higher chance of finding enchanted books, with less books overall, in a dungeon chest than there is in the latest version, and dungeons are about twice as common (they were made twice as rare in 1.7) - even with all that it takes close to 5 real-time days of extreme caving to find a particular enchantment:
https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Monster_Room#Loot (about 14.5% and 0.155 books per chest)
Even my "Smelting" and "Vein Miner" enchantments, which only generate in loot chests and are more common in "double dungeons" are still very rare by most standards:
(and even then that was only level 1, with level 2 being the max and being twice as effective)
As I noted in the previous post:
Remember too that in vanilla 1.6.4 I can just rename my items to keep the prior work penalty from increasing (which is also how my version of Mending works, the biggest reason Mojang's is so overpowered is because you only need to pick up XP, no resources/anvils*), making it incredibly easy to get everlasting gear even when compared to spawning next to a village with a Mending villager so you literally just need to collect emeralds and books to buy them.
*At the same time, you apparently find it too hard to have to occasionally get more resources to maintain your gear, even though an hour of branch-mining can yield a months worth of diamonds even with the way I burn through my gear (5,000 blocks mined per session vs 150,000 blocks of uses from 1 hour of branch-mining at the rate of 2 seconds per block, which can easily be 1 second; 150,000 blocks is 30 days of pickaxe uses, plus about the same amount for everything else).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
When people have to spend resources to maintain their equipment, especially if the resource cost becomes proportional to crafting a newer piece of equipment such as in the case of a pickaxe, at that point you may as well just craft and enchant another set of pickaxes if you're going to be charged 3 ingots or diamonds for a full repair each time.
Of course mending allows for repair by XP orbs, that's its intended function, if it wasn't, Mojang wouldn't have had this feature in the game for as long as they did and they are acutely aware of what a grind survival would be without this and why pro mending people are so defensive of its function.
Imagine mending requiring resources each time with netherite equipment, and that resource required for maintaining them was netherite ingots, do you have any idea how hard it is to amass a large quantity of ancient debris? and that's not including the requirement of then mining for gold or obtaining enough of it from Zombified Piglin drops to then craft the netherite ingot afterwards.
As another poster in a different thread stated before, without mending, netherite gear is effectively dead, there wouldn't be much point in going for it if a lot of players were then unable to keep using this legendary gear they had earned by playing by the legitimate rules of survival.
Above all, what do you do with your time in the game other than mining for resources? what do you use them for, exactly? because if all you use them for is maintaining your gear and surviving against hostile and neutral mobs, then you're missing the bigger picture here.
Not everybody who plays survival does so for the same reasons you do, you need to look at it from other perspectives also, building, depending on the size and scale of it, is VERY costly on resources in the game, and to have to be able to collect enough of it in the first place you need tools that are capable of lasting long enough to get the job done.
I don't care how you try to wordplay this one, as you had done for years now, or what figures you come up with to try to justify your position, the fact is there comes a point where having to backtrack too often to do repairs or equipment replacement becomes annoying for people. Build style survival players generally like to keep what they had earned or use the materials they collected on permanent structures or items, because it gives them more freedom in what projects they can undertake and when you keep punishing them for that, that is going to provoke a reaction from them that you may not like or understand.
Strange how that happens.
Yeah, the templates being reusable would go a long way towards justifying it too.
I was just stating that I don't mind the addition of the template itself, at least not the requirement of needing it as a step to get netherite, but I disagree with the added time and effort needed. If they counteracted this by making the ancient debris more common, it would have made the extra time/effort needed for the new template be balanced out relative to the investment that is needed now before 1.20.
Basically, neat item and idea, but poorly implemented in regards to current balance.
This is self-explanatory:
This is where I've stored the millions of resources I've collected while caving
Yes, millions - the ratio between what I find and what I need is simply silly. Chests full of diamond blocks, without using Fortune? Yes!
An updated screenshot of my statistics (blocks crafted; once I craft a mineral block I consider it to be permanent, with the exception of a few hundred iron blocks used for anvils and a few hundred redstone blocks for railways I have this many in storage):
Also, if I'd used Fortune on all that (assuming it affected iron and gold)?
In fact, considering that over half my playtime has been in other worlds I could have mined over 15 million resources across all of my worlds combined - an absolutely incomprehensible number. Some more examples of my caving insanity:
I just mined one million coal ore
I have mined more than 3 million blocks and collected 2.74 million resources
So, I often talk about how much I cave...
I've mined more than a million ores in a single world so far this year
Also, in the post where I took the screenshot of a chest of diamond blocks from I noted this:
In other words, my caving is extremely inefficient (for resources other than coal and iron), yet I've managed to accumulate unheard of amounts of resources (I haven't used Fortune either except for the first few months, out of years of playing on the world, so it hardly matters by now).
Also, I've mentioned countless times just how little mining you actually need to do in order to repair your gear, and no, it is absolutely not fair to claim "you may as well just enchant and replace your gear instead of repairing it"; what about all the time spent on enchanting?
Imagine if I had to do that every few days, even just for my pickaxe (less often for other items)! Yes, enchanting is a lot cheaper in newer versions but I'd still have to go out of my way to replace items. At the same time, having to get more netherite would not bother me that much after having done the calculations, and I really only see it worth using for swords since you can kill zombies in two non-critical hits (no thanks to 1.9 nerfing swords and Sharpness so a Sharpness V diamond sword deals only 10 damage instead of 14.25, and a zombie can take up to 21.74 damage due to their innate armor, while a Sharpness V netherite sword deals 22 damage in two hits).
Anyway, Mojang hasn't made any statements to suggest that they will nerf Mending and they surely know how disruptive it would be if they changed it - they have even intentionally not fixed actual bugs because they know it would upset too many players!
Also, the most insane thing about this bug is when it was first reported - not a full release but a snapshot (early developmental version) - if they had fixed it right away nobody would have ever come to depend on it:
Did you know that boats moving too fast on ice was considered to be a bug for several years before they decided it was now a feature, probably since fixing it would anger too many players who'd built extensive transportation networks using it?
The item renaming bug that indefinitely kept the prior work penalty from increasing likely fell into these categories as well, not "fixed" until they completely overhauled how anvils work (if they had added Mending at the same time and not one (very delayed) version later I wouldn't have had such an issue with this - it is important that changes like this have a suitable replacement right away).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I can vouch on the difficulty for finding enchanted books in structures to prove your point on that aspect. From my experience, Abandoned Mineshafts and Stronghold Libraries have the best odds overall at finding enchanted books as loot. Most other structures seldomly offer them, and in the rare instance that you do find them in most structures, the enchantments are Subpar, like Protection I, Riptide I, Looting I, etc.
While Abandoned Mineshafts have an increased odds at finding them(Due to all the Minecart with chests as well as generated Dungeons), the enchanted books found tend to suffer the same subpar quality issue. Now Stronghold Libraries, they offer some potent enchanted books when found, equivilant to a Level 30 Enchantment off of the Enchantment Table, which is nice, but that is kind of a reward for finding the Stronghold XD.
Now when you talk about Custom Enchants like Vein Miner, are you using Aulixor's EcoEnchants or is that your own variant of the Vein Miner CE? They have some fun CEs like Vein Miner, Blast Mining, Infernal Touch (Smelting), Indestructibility (Max Level of VI adds a 7X Multiplier to an item's durability), and Repairing (Which makes Mending look Obsolete).
While on the topic, how does your variant of Mending work with things like Fishing Rods, Tridents, and Turtle Shells (if they're even accessible in your gameplay due to the version you play on)?
Still works if I press page 3 button from within the subforum thread links. Not from the main forum listing which defaults to page 1. So I guess it's just a question of how I access it. Still, bigger threads bug out on me sometimes.
Most enchanted books found in loot chests are randomly enchanted at any level, not as they would be on the table - you are just as likely to find Protection I as Protection IV (however, this does mean that Protection IV is less likely than say, Knockback II, which is in turn less likely than Silk Touch, i.e. the chance of a specific level deceases as the number of levels increases). The Wiki does indicate that books in libraries are enchanted at level 30 (this is not the case in older versions) but this is actually a negative:
TheMasterCaver's World (TMCW) is a standalone mod entirely of my own creation (aside from stuff I've ported from newer/older versions, and code taken from the bug tracker and various open-source bugfix mods), it isn't even a traditional mod but a "modded client" (i.e. a "jar" mod, where you add a bunch of files directly to the jar and delete META-INF, and which directly alters the game's code, as opposed to using Forge or another modloader, which makes it totally incompatible with anything else, even Optifine (I actually added my own features based on it, and far more extensive optimizations) - you can read the link in my signature for details). Anything that I mention which is not "vanilla" is all my own, and with the exception of a small handful of mods I've never played anything else (I'd never heard of "Aulixor's EcoEnchants" until now, and most likely any other mod you mention unless it was a famous one like Orespawn).
Mending works just like renaming an item did prior to 1.8, including tridents and turtle helmets if I ever added them (mentioning fishing rods seems a bit odd given they were added all the way back in Alpha) - it stops the prior work penalty from increasing and works on any item with durability (and even without, if applied to them in Creative, but that usually doesn't matter since I made renaming cost only 1 level and not affect the prior work penalty, as was done in newer versions. And yes, this includes Infinity bows, which IMO were nerfed to "patch" a popular exploit where a bow with Mending, Punch, and Infinity was used as a boost when flying with an elytra (you fired arrows at minimum charge, which would travel slower than you and thus hit you and knock you "back" in the direction they were moving, which in this case boosts your forward movement); the only "exclusions" are when adding too many enchantments to an item would make it too expensive to repair (if you try adding Mending to such an item it will be rejected as too expensive even if the cost of adding it would be less than the limit as I internally calculate the repair cost after it is added):
One difference from vanilla is that I set the penalty to 0 instead of 2 and removed the charge for the number of enchantments in the "base cost" calculation, except when adding or combining enchantments. For an item with 3 enchantments this is 6 levels, so the removal of both offsets the cost of Mending itself, which is 8 levels and factors into all anvil work costs, including repairing.
I also have another mechanic where you can use rubies (a mod item based on the unused vanilla item texture, which is actually still in the jar for 1.6.4) to reduce the penalty by 6 levels per ruby, enabling indefinite repairs of items which would be too expensive to put Mending on, at the expense of having to use a uncommon biome-specific resource and additional anvil uses (in particular, I used them to repair my Smelting and Vein Miner pickaxes, which cost 43-45-47 levels per repair before using a ruby to reset it back to 43. If you are wondering, the 40+ level cost is because of my amethyst items (no relation at all to the material added in 1.17, I added amethyst back in 2014), which can cost up to 49 levels instead of 39 (for other items) due to their higher durability, 3 times that of diamond, which directly affects repair costs (even vanilla diamond items can cost up to 17 levels for the actual repair, unit repairs are cheaper and are the only way amethyst items can be repaired, but only restore 1/4 the full durability, thus you actually get less uses out of a repair compared to diamond. However, incremental repairing means I never have to worry about dropping down to 0 durability).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I haven't experienced this issue but have you been getting "forbidden" errors when trying to post lately? I've been getting them all the time (including my last post; even the preview button brings up an error) and have to open somebody's profile in another tab to stop it (you get a browser security check screen the first time you do this in a while and I'm guessing the same thing happens with comments but since it can't properly display the screen it throws an error),
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?