Why should we care? from what I've seen of this update there isn't much good about it, yes we are getting archaeology and cherry blossoms, hanging signs etc, but we are also getting a requirement of templates to craft netherite gear, which is absurd. More work for the same items, and not in a good way.
There haven't been many updates I was genuinely very fond of, the last update I was in full agreement of was the Aquatic update, because we got a new weapon, a newer variant of Zombies as well as 4 newer enchantments related to the tridents, two of which synergized so well with the lightning rods from 1.17, but it has been years since an update this hedonistic happened, since then things have continued to get worse and the downfall started, at least for me, with the Pillager update of 1.14, where raids can cause problems at player bases no matter what measures you took to try to spawn proof it, it doesn't just happen on hard and hardcore difficulties, which would have made more sense, they happen on all except peaceful, they ruin player sanctuaries.
Look, I really wish I wasn't in a situation where I would have to complain a lot about things I didn't like, but knowing my bad luck in life, and other's, fate doesn't really treat us kindly here and it hasn't been any different with video games. If games aren't fun, what's the point? why do people spend so much money on expensive pieces of hardware, only to end up with software they don't like?
I do try to suggest alternatives, but every time I and other people do, our suggestions are often shot down by elitists in the gaming community who look down on casual players like myself.
1.18 update was a big one, and it did allow players to build higher as well as allow more realistic terrain to generate and the ground is deeper which means more room for cave systems and underground structures to generate, and it means more room for ores, as well as complex player structures to be built vertically, but that update also came with some massive downsides, one and the most obvious being how hard it can be to obtain ore items, and the time it takes to mine each deepslate block compared to stone can also be considered a nerf to mining.
I'm not at all excited for 1.20, given the circumstances, for some people if modding is the only alternative to making the game more interesting for ourselves, then we are turned off by this, and it could even be considered patronizing if we are told to use anything related to cheats.
If games aren't fun, what's the point? why do people spend so much money on expensive pieces of hardware, only to end up with software they don't like?
The gaming landscape is unbelievably vast on the PC side alone. There's a lot to choose from. If someone ends up with software, I'd wager at some point they found it worthwhile to some degree, no? If not, they wouldn't have come into it to begin with.
If nothing takes your fancy, there's other hobbies out there, too.
Personally, I find gaming fun, and Minecraft in this particular case is a specific game I find fun. It's not perfect, but it never was either. And I find it getting better by the update.
I do try to suggest alternatives, but every time I and other people do, our suggestions are often shot down by elitists in the gaming community who look down on casual players like myself.
Huh? I'm a bit lost.
You seem to post regularly but I don't often see people disagreeing with you on the regular? When it comes to small stuff, everyone has their own ideas of what should be what. What the game should change. What the game should add. If I probably tried to think of what "I" wanted the game to be (not even sure...), I expect far, far more people would disagree with it than they would agree. That's... expected. Don't take the fact that people disagree with you too personally. Instead, take the THINGS they are saying, and try to understand them to better understand WHAT they are saying, and then decide if you want to disagreement with it (agree to disagree) and move on, or maybe use it to reshape your opinion going forward (in the cases you find that you were maybe "wrong" before, and reshaping your opinion with outside input makes it better now).
But I guess I'm a bit lost because I don't see this occurring towards you?
The suggestion forum here is user to user. Once upon a time, a massive enough suggestion (with enough replies and constant attention) might get traction and echo throughout the community beyond the forums and by extension Mojang might hear it. But the suggestion forums are not, and probably never were even when the forum was active, a guarantee that Mojang would hear a players' opinions.
It's part of why I just share my opinion in regular posts and not as suggestions. If I do make some (which I did recently), it will usually be smaller and simpler stuff rather than complex stuff, and it will sort of be for the sake of it. I don't expect Mojang to catch wind of much of what gets suggested here.
But yeah, don't let "people are disagreeing with me" get you down too much. I'm disagreeing with you on some things here, yet I think you would know I'm not just "shooting you down" or whatever. Just focus on the particulars (what are they saying) rather than the fact they are disagreeing.
1.18 update was a big one, and it did allow players to build higher as well as allow more realistic terrain to generate and the ground is deeper which means more room for cave systems and underground structures to generate, and it means more room for ores, as well as complex player structures to be built vertically, but that update also came with some massive downsides, one and the most obvious being how hard it can be to obtain ore items, and the time it takes to mine each deepslate block compared to stone can also be considered a nerf to mining.
I think you're focusing too much on "thing was nerfed, everything is in a downward spiral". A nerf isn't necessarily bad, it's just one of two ways you can adjust things to balance it, and balance is important. With an actively developed game, you just have to be able to adapt to changes that may come. If not, sit on the version of your choice (I know you play Bedrock and it currently can't do this, but that's its own problem unfortunately).
Creative exists if you're not after that.
Deepslate isn't a huge chore to get. Once you have some enchantments (in particular, efficiency), stone was simply so fast to get. Mojang seemingly wanted to "nerf" that and in a way they did that in the best way possible. They did it indirectly.
Ores also aren't hard to get in my opinion. Harder than before maybe, but not hard still. They were simply easy to get before.
Interestingly, when I started my 1.16 world, and I'm fairly sure I made posts expressing this back then, I was disappointed whenever I had to go get iron or coal. It just wasn't fun. the caves were rather uncommon, seemingly small, and boring. I was overly focused on building though, and it took my while to get enchants (no unbreaking, no mending, no fortune, etc.), so I was constantly having to deal with the huge demands of my building pace and the constant gameplay loop of replacing things. This is no change late game, and I'd say it's both fun and more balanced nominally. But I do realize that's merely my opinion.
Still, I think you tend to focus too much on "thing was nerfed, ergo it's getting worse on the whole" and I think that's souring your perspective on things.
The gaming landscape is unbelievably vast on the PC side alone. There's a lot to choose from. If someone ends up with software, I'd wager at some point they found it worthwhile to some degree, no? If not, they wouldn't have come into it to begin with.
If nothing takes your fancy, there's other hobbies out there, too.
Personally, I find gaming fun, and Minecraft in this particular case is a specific game I find fun. It's not perfect, but it never was either. And I find it getting better by the update.
Huh? I'm a bit lost.
You seem to post regularly but I don't often see people disagreeing with you on the regular? When it comes to small stuff, everyone has their own ideas of what should be what. What the game should change. What the game should add. If I probably tried to think of what "I" wanted the game to be (not even sure...), I expect far, far more people would disagree with it than they would agree. That's... expected. Don't take the fact that people disagree with you too personally. Instead, take the THINGS they are saying, and try to understand them to better understand WHAT they are saying, and then decide if you want to disagreement with it (agree to disagree) and move on, or maybe use it to reshape your opinion going forward (in the cases you find that you were maybe "wrong" before, and reshaping your opinion with outside input makes it better now).
But I guess I'm a bit lost because I don't see this occurring towards you?
The suggestion forum here is user to user. Once upon a time, a massive enough suggestion (with enough replies and constant attention) might get traction and echo throughout the community beyond the forums and by extension Mojang might hear it. But the suggestion forums are not, and probably never were even when the forum was active, a guarantee that Mojang would hear a players' opinions.
It's part of why I just share my opinion in regular posts and not as suggestions. If I do make some (which I did recently), it will usually be smaller and simpler stuff rather than complex stuff, and it will sort of be for the sake of it. I don't expect Mojang to catch wind of much of what gets suggested here.
But yeah, don't let "people are disagreeing with me" get you down too much. I'm disagreeing with you on some things here, yet I think you would know I'm not just "shooting you down" or whatever. Just focus on the particulars (what are they saying) rather than the fact they are disagreeing.
I think you're focusing too much on "thing was nerfed, everything is in a downward spiral". A nerf isn't necessarily bad, it's just one of two ways you can adjust things to balance it, and balance is important. With an actively developed game, you just have to be able to adapt to changes that may come. If not, sit on the version of your choice (I know you play Bedrock and it currently can't do this, but that's its own problem unfortunately).
Creative exists if you're not after that.
Deepslate isn't a huge chore to get. Once you have some enchantments (in particular, efficiency), stone was simply so fast to get. Mojang seemingly wanted to "nerf" that and in a way they did that in the best way possible. They did it indirectly.
Ores also aren't hard to get in my opinion. Harder than before maybe, but not hard still. They were simply easy to get before.
Interestingly, when I started my 1.16 world, and I'm fairly sure I made posts expressing this back then, I was disappointed whenever I had to go get iron or coal. It just wasn't fun. the caves were rather uncommon, seemingly small, and boring. I was overly focused on building though, and it took my while to get enchants (no unbreaking, no mending, no fortune, etc.), so I was constantly having to deal with the huge demands of my building pace and the constant gameplay loop of replacing things. This is no change late game, and I'd say it's both fun and more balanced nominally. But I do realize that's merely my opinion.
Still, I think you tend to focus too much on "thing was nerfed, ergo it's getting worse on the whole" and I think that's souring your perspective on things.
Some people need the existing mechanics of the game to get their projects done in survival mode in a reasonable amount of time, and if I wanted to play creative mode for this, don't you think I would've done so already? you didn't read the last line of my previous post, some of us don't want to have to turn cheats on just to do this.
There are elements of survival mode some players like myself do like, but they are conditional, while my play style is build first and foremost, I do enjoy to a point collecting resources for those, however what I don't enjoy doing is replacing everything that gets broken, nor does everybody else on my server and that's why features like resource farms and mending, are so important to us, as are the abundance of materials underground and we'd like to use the majority of them for our structures where we create our own fictional communities, and some of the tools in this game, namely stone and iron, have lousy durability and do not even last the full day and night cycle, which makes it impractical for people like me to use them when say, removing a mountain, for that I don't settle for anything less than diamond tools when I get my hands on them as well as enchantments like unbreaking III and mending, so I can continue to use the shovels, axes and pickaxes long after that task is complete.
You expect other's to adapt to change, for the sake of what you perceive as balance, the problem is this is a sandbox, and because of that we are meant to have options in how we experience the game, if that wasn't Mojang's original vision for the game then there wouldn't be the option to load in older versions in Java. Unfortunately bedrock edition players don't have this option, for people like us who play bedrock edition we're told to like it or lump it, no matter if an update was beneficial to our overall experience or not, we don't get the option to block them.
The other issue here is the bedrock server application, both in Windows and Linux, isn't very simple or intuitive to use, I had to run a script from somebody else who published this on another website just to get the application to auto start as well as do daily reboots and periodic automated updates. I cannot just turn this off without breaking something else with the program, and that's another issue Mojang haven't yet made easier for people. We should have the option in the properties file to do these things instead of having to rely on a third party or somebody else with more technical knowledge than us, and as of this current time, Minecraft bedrock server application for home users does not have automatic updates, you need to use a third party source to get that feature working, which I don't have to tell you why that is annoying.
And if my server updates to a version I don't like, I cannot just revert it, you know why this is? because it leads to file corruption,
because of the way the game works, world saves are easily corruptible when attempting to get them working with an older version of the game,
if I don't have a recent backup file to fall back on, then I'm screwed. Fortunately I do have an automated backup system in place, on two external hard drives, however there are some people out there who don't and will be inconvenienced by such a problem.
Some people need the existing mechanics of the game to get their projects done in survival mode in a reasonable amount of time, and if I wanted to play creative mode for this, don't you think I would've done so already? you didn't read the last line of my previous post, some of us don't want to have to turn cheats on just to do this.
To that first point, you could take that further and say if they buffed things then certain things could be accomplished even faster, so why not do that then? So it's not a very valid reason to say something should be in a specific state.
Where the "right" spot is for balance will always be disagreed upon. Nothing would ever be able to be changed if Mojang had to accommodate if anyone ever feels like they can't accomplish something in a reasonably time or fashion.
As I said, and yes I read the post but creative isn't cheating, for those who are unhappy with the limitations of survival, creative is there. You know my stance and that I agree with you that the game would benefit from having more tuners and options for more things, but without them in place, there's going to have to be some median they decide upon, and if the criteria they use is "it needs to be able to allow something to be done reasonably fast in survival to the point nobody feels it is too slow" well then, they need to start buffing a whole lot of things to the point it breaks survival, because it's not there yet by that definition. And it shouldn't be. Creative is the pure sandbox mode.
I wasn't suggesting that you selectively change any particular survival world to creative. I was just saying that it's unreasonable to expect survival to meet the definition you gave.
You expect other's to adapt to change, for the sake of what you perceive as balance, the problem is this is a sandbox, and because of that we are meant to have options in how we experience the game, if that wasn't Mojang's original vision for the game then there wouldn't be the option to load in older versions in Java.
Huh?
I'm not expecting anything.
What I am saying (and this really applies to life as a whole) is that when a given thing is actively changing, you should expect not all of those changes to be things you may like. So being flexible or adaptable is a good way to deal with it in general.
Unfortunately bedrock edition players don't have this option, for people like us who play bedrock edition we're told to like it or lump it, no matter if an update was beneficial to our overall experience or not, we don't get the option to block them.
The other issue here is the bedrock server application, both in Windows and Linux, isn't very simple or intuitive to use, I had to run a script from somebody else who published this on another website just to get the application to auto start as well as do daily reboots and periodic automated updates. I cannot just turn this off without breaking something else with the program, and that's another issue Mojang haven't yet made easier for people. We should have the option in the properties file to do these things instead of having to rely on a third party or somebody else with more technical knowledge than us, and as of this current time, Minecraft bedrock server application for home users does not have automatic updates, you need to use a third party source to get that feature working, which I don't have to tell you why that is annoying.
I can't speak for this part since I'm not familiar with Bedrock, but running a server in general isn't necessarily a simple or hands off approach thing.
And if my server updates to a version I don't like, I cannot just revert it, you know why this is? because it leads to file corruption,
because of the way the game works, world saves are easily corruptible when attempting to get them working with an older version of the game,
if I don't have a recent backup file to fall back on, then I'm screwed. Fortunately I do have an automated backup system in place, on two external hard drives, however there are some people out there who don't and will be inconvenienced by such a problem.
Yes, see above, I agree that the forced updates is a problem for Bedrock. It's part of their "better together" vision and approach I guess.
As for back ups, you (not you personally, but in a broad sense) should be backing up data you care about regardless. If there is data you cares about, and it wasn't backed up, then it is partially on you if it becomes lost. It sounds like you have this part done to some extent, but either way I'm not sure why you brought it up here when this has nothing to do with Minecraft specifically. The reasons for backing up apply regardless.
Playing a newer save in an older version was always an issue to some extent. The game isn't made to go backwards, and it doesn't need to be able to in my opinion. Normally you'd only update if you were sure you were willing to (and had backups), but yeah, Bedrock forces the updates. That's a Bedrock specific issue, and again, I can't speak for it.
To that first point, you could take that further and say if they buffed things then certain things could be accomplished even faster, so why not do that then? So it's not a very valid reason to say something should be in a specific state.
Where the "right" spot is for balance will always be disagreed upon. Nothing would ever be able to be changed if Mojang had to accommodate if anyone ever feels like they can't accomplish something in a reasonably time or fashion.
As I said, and yes I read the post but creative isn't cheating, for those who are unhappy with the limitations of survival, creative is there. You know my stance and that I agree with you that the game would benefit from having more tuners and options for more things, but without them in place, there's going to have to be some median they decide upon, and if the criteria they use is "it needs to be able to allow something to be done reasonably fast in survival to the point nobody feels it is too slow" well then, they need to start buffing a whole lot of things to the point it breaks survival, because it's not there yet by that definition. And it shouldn't be. Creative is the pure sandbox mode.
I wasn't suggesting that you selectively change any particular survival world to creative. I was just saying that it's unreasonable to expect survival to meet the definition you gave.
Huh?
I'm not expecting anything.
What I am saying (and this really applies to life as a whole) is that when a given thing is actively changing, you should expect not all of those changes to be things you may like. So being flexible or adaptable is a good way to deal with it in general.
Yes, which is why I said that is its own issue.
I can't speak for this part since I'm not familiar with Bedrock, but running a server in general isn't necessarily a simple or hands off approach thing.
Yes, see above, I agree that the forced updates is a problem for Bedrock. It's part of their "better together" vision and approach I guess.
As for back ups, you (not you personally, but in a broad sense) should be backing up data you care about regardless. If there is data you cares about, and it wasn't backed up, then it is partially on you if it becomes lost. It sounds like you have this part done to some extent, but either way I'm not sure why you brought it up here when this has nothing to do with Minecraft specifically. The reasons for backing up apply regardless.
Playing a newer save in an older version was always an issue to some extent. The game isn't made to go backwards, and it doesn't need to be able to in my opinion. Normally you'd only update if you were sure you were willing to (and had backups), but yeah, Bedrock forces the updates. That's a Bedrock specific issue, and again, I can't speak for it.
I don't trust Microsoft's approach to handling this however, even if they had implemented a feature later on where versions of the game could be locked in bedrock edition for both the client and server and did it so it could be done easily in both Windows and Linux for the server application, my concern is they may prevent players from playing in online multiplayer and restrict it to either single player or LAN multiplayer, given the way they handle updates with other games on the Xbox Live service there are going to be some strings attached with this feature for certain and it might not just be a fee for a premium server app of some kind, it could end up being something far worse, even resulting in disabling of achievements, at that point it becomes no better than creative mode worlds.
What they should do is instead limit older versions so that only the achievements associated with that version could be earned if a world remains in survival with cheats disabled, any newer achievement added to the game can only be earned if the player updates to the newer version of the game. But the ideal or fair solution doesn't always happen as far as game development goes, sometimes we get screwed with new rules we can do nothing about.
And just because somebody plays in survival does not mean they should be forbidden from earning a large amount of resources they want for their structures or bases, not everybody plays the game for an unforgiving combat experience. Some people only play it for collecting of resources then using those resources to build large scale infrastructure for themselves and their friends to play around in. If resource farms and enchantments are nerfed too heavily, the game becomes too much of a grind for them and effectively creates a time sink that they do not want to bother with, it won't make them play creative mode, at least not most of them, myself included, all it would end up doing is pushing people like me away and we'd then find some other sandbox to play, as we would no longer feel catered to.
Everybody has different ideas of what they consider fun,
I don't find creative mode fun, it's boring, and I don't see why I should have to use this mode just because some other people
And just because somebody plays in survival does not mean they should be forbidden from earning a large amount of resources they want for their structures or bases, not everybody plays the game for an unforgiving combat experience. Some people only play it for collecting of resources then using those resources to build large scale infrastructure for themselves and their friends to play around in.
Of course. You're speaking to someone who largely plays the same way.
You currently can obtain a large amount of resources in survival. The only limit is time and effort.
I think you're still misunderstanding my overall point. My overall point was that I think you tend to focus too much on "thing is nerfed, ergo everything is in a downward spiral". Maybe you don't like the direction things have headed, and that's fine, but I was just saying that because it seems like it looms over your enjoyment of the game. I was just trying o give you a realistic view of your options to make sure your own time is spent in a way that you find it enjoyable.
As I said, if the game is no longer something you find fun, move to a state of the game that works for you (might require moving to java or modding it) or find games that are. There's not really many other options. You're playing a game that is actively changing. You're playing in a version of the game that is "force" updated. If you're not willing to be flexible and adaptable to changes, then I'm not sure I have a better suggestion/solution to your dissatisfaction with it.
Everyone's idea of what the game should be differs too much. Anyone expecting something developed for a wider community to be perfect for them alone has unrealistic expectations.
If resource farms and enchantments are nerfed too heavily, the game becomes too much of a grind for them and effectively creates a time sink that they do not want to bother with, it won't make them play creative mode, at least not most of them, myself included, all it would end up doing is pushing people like me away and we'd then find some other sandbox to play, as we would no longer feel catered to.
Then that is what happens. As a given thing changes, eventually there are some people that may no longer find it as enjoyable.
If your enjoyment of the game relies heavily upon a specific thing, and that thing is changed, then I don't know what to tell you if you don't want to take steps to better it (even if those steps mean giving up on that particular thing/game and finding something that you find more enjoyable to replace it). Though, I'm not sure how "deelsplate is still fast to acquire, just not as insanely fast like stone" is make or break for you though.
Before I respond to AGT and Princess_Garnet, I'm going with Youtuber IBXToycat's guess of a June Release for 1.20.
AGT, where you are coming from is that since 1.16 on Bedrock at least one major nerf was implemented with each Update. You are correct, as here is the nerf log I have.
1.16.100: Jeb removes the ability to fish/villager trade for Soul Speed Books and removes the Netherite Hoe and Glowstone Dust from Piglin Bartering. All quantities for bartered items are reduced.
1.17: Jeb removes the Drowned's Gold Ingot drops and replaces them with Copper Ingots which makes no sense. This impacts Bedrock Users moreso than Java users. Jeb uses LadyAgnes for this as a scapegoat because she wanted easy access to copper. Large Dripleaf due to a Bug on Bedrock can be placed on any block. Java Edition users state their opinion on Large Dripleaf, wanting parity with Bedrock so it can be used as a delay device in Redstone.
1.18: Jeb nerfs the spawn rates of Deepslate Emerald Ore and Deepslate Coal ore as they were initially met to be Creative Only items for Minecraft Marketplace Content Creators, but due to an oversight in 1.17, the game generated them in Vanilla. Jeb nerfs Diamond Ore generation on Java Edition. The new Terrain Generation makes biomes too big, making finding structures even harder. Jeb instead of implementing Bedrock parity on Java with the Large Dripleaf implements Java Parity on Bedrock and removes this ability instead.
1.18.10: Java users state that Bedrock Edition's Diamond Ore distribution was not nerfed but Java Edition's was. Java players wanted parity with Bedrock for more Diamond Ore. Jeb instead nerfs Bedrock's Diamond Ore distribution to match Java Editions
1.19: Jeb intentionally puts the Deep Dark specifically where Deepslate Emerald Ore Generates making Deepslate Emerald Ore even harder to get.
1.19.80 and 1.19.81: Jeb removes the ability to put Adult Horses in Boats on Minecraft Bedrock Edition implementing Java Parity on Bedrock Edition despite Java Players wanting Bedrock Parity on Java Edition to put Horses in Boats on Java Edition.
Now in upcoming 1.20: Upgrading Diamond Gear to Netherite now requires one Netherite Ingot as well as an Upgrade Template {found exclusively in 1.20+ generated Piglin Bastions). If 'Show Coordinates' are enabled, Death Coordinates will show on the screen upon a Player's Death, nerfing the Recovery Compass to the Point of being useless if 'Show Coordinates' is being used.
Now I do use MCLauncher from time to time to go back to version 1.14.30, 1.16.02, and 1.17.41 for Solo Play as they are fun versions of Older Bedrock Edition, but your case AGT is that we should be able to go back to older versions without the use of a Third Party Program as such or using .apk files or modifying a world's baseGameVersion NBT value in a world's Level.dat to lock a world to a specific Bedrock Version via hardlocking (via .apk) or softlocking (Via Simulation). Once again understandable. Yes, a World through a Third Party Program such as NBTStudio or Universal Minecraft Editor can modify the baseGameVersion NBT Tag and lock a Bedrock world to a certain version, but it would be nice to do this within the Confines of the game, such an ingame feature on Bedrock shouldn't be limited to only Marketplace Content Creators (As it is); shouldn't have to use a third party program to access a feature on a World that Marketplace Content Creators have access to within Bedrock Editon by default. If the Marketplace Content Creators have access to locking worlds to a certain version within Bedrock Edition itself, the playerbase should also have access to that feature.
Now as for the 'Creative being Cheating', I'm on the middle ground between you AGT and Princess_Garnet. Creating/Updating a World to Creative Mode sets NBT Values CommandsEnabled and HasBeeninCreative to a value of 1, disabling achievements. Now if said Creative World at that point (Regardless of Reason for creating it) is left in Creative Mode and used as such, then fine, however if work is then done to said world and then a third party tool sets the world back to Survival and sets CommandsEnabled and HasBeeninCreative NBT Tags back to 0, that is Cheating, as it circumvents what Survival is about, especially if this is used to give a player an advantage to give them OP/ normally unobtainable items or is used this way to with intention unlock XBox LIVE Achievements or Playstation Trophies.
If a Server or Map Owner uses a Creative Copy of their world or Server to find things, the bounds of what is defined as Cheating at that point is bound to the definition of the Server/Map Owner themselves (They could technically use ChunkApp to find the same stuff), and those who don't agree with the Server/Map Owner doing so can just look elsewhere to play. This is different from Admin Abuse where an Admin would use their powers to hurt other players through griefing them or stealing from them despite having rules against it.
Creative Mode can be utilized to test certain technical builds before building them in a Survival Mode, such as Grinders and Redstone Contraptions. This I would not consider Cheating either as I would rather build it right the first time in Survival isntead of using Trial and Error. Also strictly playing in Creative Mode is a player preference and that in itself in my book isn't cheating. It simply means whatever they built they didn't gather the resources for, didn't deal with mobs, and don't have access to achievements. It takes away from what they built a little bit, but not cheating in my book due to being confined to Creative Mode. People have their preferences for their versions and modes, as I will show next.
I will say that the 1.18+ Updates does personally have me yearning for Mojang to reimplement Console Legacy World Generation and sizes of Classic, Small, Medium, and Large, with Current Gen Content. For example on Console Legacy Xbox 360 Title Update 73 on the seed 2020 within an 864 X 864 Blockspace, four Woodland Mansions Generate within that small space, yet on Current Gen Java/Bedrock, you generally have to travel tens of thousands of blocks to find a Single Woodland Mansion. The 1.18+ Larger Biomes in Current Gen I feel in Survival makes it more Grindy to find stuff too. Having a limited world size with finite resources made you think about how to use those resources effectively and was fun compared to traveling out farther and farther in Survival and increasing a world size indefinately. Granted the Wandering Trader can help with some of these issues offering some biome specific items, but it's not a solid fix. This is the reason why I had alot of Console Legacy Classic Size Worlds (Fresh, not built on, just generated) converted over from Console Legacy Xbox 360 Edition to Bedrock Edition as well as all of the Console Legacy Tutorial Worlds XD.
My opinion is that there are many opportunities here for Mojang to make their game better on both platforms with Bedrock Parity on Java as well as for an expanded audience, but it sways the other way instead taking away what can be good potential material to improve on what already exists, not to mention some of 4J Studios Console Legacy content can be added to improve on quality of life aspects with Current Gen. Faster Rails, the Ability within the confines of the game to Reset the Nether and End, Limited World Size (Which can help those with older computers), Smaller Biomes, More Structures, etc. There is alot that Mojang can do to improve current Gen, but they seem to focus on nerfing or even outright removing good features moreso as of late.
There are also Java Features that could come to Bedrock such as Single Biome Worlds and Custom Worlds (Based upon Block placement on the Y Axis). Granted CrackedMagnet recently made this possible through new world generation with specific tags set outside of the game, showing that it is possible in Bedrock, but only locked away due to only needing a UI Upgrade. This can be done on Bedrock as on Java and Console Legacy just with a UI Change to allow direct access to it within the game, but has not been done yet by Mojang.
Not to say all the 1.20 stuff is bad. Camels can be a major gamechanger on Bedrock Edition compared to Java Edition since Bedrock Players can't build above the Nether Roof. Since Players cannot be hit by Mobs of a Height upto 2 while riding a camel, a Camel can essentially become a major Gold farm/grinding tool in the Nether with the right setup. Not to mention the huge buff Bamboo is getting which will render other Wood Farms Obsolete on both Editions. Cherry Blossoms will also make Pink Dye so much easier to get. Just doesn't make sense why after three major updates, making Netherite Gear will suddenly be made so much harder to obtain, not to mention how that change impacts older worlds much heavier than new worlds in Survival due to more of the Nether already being explored (This is where a 'Reset the Nether' feature within the game like Console Legacy had would make sense.
As for Reverting Maps Back to an Older version, due to what was experienced with MCPE-164022 on the JIRA, the maps would break with the newer content. The Client Version would allow for newer objects placed before the Revert to technically exist in the reverted worldspace, however once interacted with will disappear and won't be obtainable. So you are also correct about that AGT, while not so much corruption, it's incompatibility that causes this, though corruption can still happen.
Before I respond to AGT and Princess_Garnet, I'm going with Youtuber IBXToycat's guess of a June Release for 1.20.
AGT, where you are coming from is that since 1.16 on Bedrock at least one major nerf was implemented with each Update. You are correct, as here is the nerf log I have.
1.16.100: Jeb removes the ability to fish/villager trade for Soul Speed Books and removes the Netherite Hoe and Glowstone Dust from Piglin Bartering. All quantities for bartered items are reduced.
1.17: Jeb removes the Drowned's Gold Ingot drops and replaces them with Copper Ingots which makes no sense. This impacts Bedrock Users moreso than Java users. Jeb uses LadyAgnes for this as a scapegoat because she wanted easy access to copper. Large Dripleaf due to a Bug on Bedrock can be placed on any block. Java Edition users state their opinion on Large Dripleaf, wanting parity with Bedrock so it can be used as a delay device in Redstone.
1.18: Jeb nerfs the spawn rates of Deepslate Emerald Ore and Deepslate Coal ore as they were initially met to be Creative Only items for Minecraft Marketplace Content Creators, but due to an oversight in 1.17, the game generated them in Vanilla. Jeb nerfs Diamond Ore generation on Java Edition. The new Terrain Generation makes biomes too big, making finding structures even harder. Jeb instead of implementing Bedrock parity on Java with the Large Dripleaf implements Java Parity on Bedrock and removes this ability instead.
1.18.10: Java users state that Bedrock Edition's Diamond Ore distribution was not nerfed but Java Edition's was. Java players wanted parity with Bedrock for more Diamond Ore. Jeb instead nerfs Bedrock's Diamond Ore distribution to match Java Editions
1.19: Jeb intentionally puts the Deep Dark specifically where Deepslate Emerald Ore Generates making Deepslate Emerald Ore even harder to get.
1.19.80 and 1.19.81: Jeb removes the ability to put Adult Horses in Boats on Minecraft Bedrock Edition implementing Java Parity on Bedrock Edition despite Java Players wanting Bedrock Parity on Java Edition to put Horses in Boats on Java Edition.
Now in upcoming 1.20: Upgrading Diamond Gear to Netherite now requires one Netherite Ingot as well as an Upgrade Template {found exclusively in 1.20+ generated Piglin Bastions). If 'Show Coordinates' are enabled, Death Coordinates will show on the screen upon a Player's Death, nerfing the Recovery Compass to the Point of being useless if 'Show Coordinates' is being used.
Now I do use MCLauncher from time to time to go back to version 1.14.30, 1.16.02, and 1.17.41 for Solo Play as they are fun versions of Older Bedrock Edition, but your case AGT is that we should be able to go back to older versions without the use of a Third Party Program as such or using .apk files or modifying a world's baseGameVersion NBT value in a world's Level.dat to lock a world to a specific Bedrock Version via hardlocking (via .apk) or softlocking (Via Simulation). Once again understandable. Yes, a World through a Third Party Program such as NBTStudio or Universal Minecraft Editor can modify the baseGameVersion NBT Tag and lock a Bedrock world to a certain version, but it would be nice to do this within the Confines of the game, such an ingame feature on Bedrock shouldn't be limited to only Marketplace Content Creators (As it is); shouldn't have to use a third party program to access a feature on a World that Marketplace Content Creators have access to within Bedrock Editon by default. If the Marketplace Content Creators have access to locking worlds to a certain version within Bedrock Edition itself, the playerbase should also have access to that feature.
Now as for the 'Creative being Cheating', I'm on the middle ground between you AGT and Princess_Garnet. Creating/Updating a World to Creative Mode sets NBT Values CommandsEnabled and HasBeeninCreative to a value of 1, disabling achievements. Now if said Creative World at that point (Regardless of Reason for creating it) is left in Creative Mode and used as such, then fine, however if work is then done to said world and then a third party tool sets the world back to Survival and sets CommandsEnabled and HasBeeninCreative NBT Tags back to 0, that is Cheating, as it circumvents what Survival is about, especially if this is used to give a player an advantage to give them OP/ normally unobtainable items or is used this way to with intention unlock XBox LIVE Achievements or Playstation Trophies.
If a Server or Map Owner uses a Creative Copy of their world or Server to find things, the bounds of what is defined as Cheating at that point is bound to the definition of the Server/Map Owner themselves (They could technically use ChunkApp to find the same stuff), and those who don't agree with the Server/Map Owner doing so can just look elsewhere to play. This is different from Admin Abuse where an Admin would use their powers to hurt other players through griefing them or stealing from them despite having rules against it.
Creative Mode can be utilized to test certain technical builds before building them in a Survival Mode, such as Grinders and Redstone Contraptions. This I would not consider Cheating either as I would rather build it right the first time in Survival isntead of using Trial and Error. Also strictly playing in Creative Mode is a player preference and that in itself in my book isn't cheating. It simply means whatever they built they didn't gather the resources for, didn't deal with mobs, and don't have access to achievements. It takes away from what they built a little bit, but not cheating in my book due to being confined to Creative Mode. People have their preferences for their versions and modes, as I will show next.
I will say that the 1.18+ Updates does personally have me yearning for Mojang to reimplement Console Legacy World Generation and sizes of Classic, Small, Medium, and Large, with Current Gen Content. For example on Console Legacy Xbox 360 Title Update 73 on the seed 2020 within an 864 X 864 Blockspace, four Woodland Mansions Generate within that small space, yet on Current Gen Java/Bedrock, you generally have to travel tens of thousands of blocks to find a Single Woodland Mansion. The 1.18+ Larger Biomes in Current Gen I feel in Survival makes it more Grindy to find stuff too. Having a limited world size with finite resources made you think about how to use those resources effectively and was fun compared to traveling out farther and farther in Survival and increasing a world size indefinately. Granted the Wandering Trader can help with some of these issues offering some biome specific items, but it's not a solid fix. This is the reason why I had alot of Console Legacy Classic Size Worlds (Fresh, not built on, just generated) converted over from Console Legacy Xbox 360 Edition to Bedrock Edition as well as all of the Console Legacy Tutorial Worlds XD.
My opinion is that there are many opportunities here for Mojang to make their game better on both platforms with Bedrock Parity on Java as well as for an expanded audience, but it sways the other way instead taking away what can be good potential material to improve on what already exists, not to mention some of 4J Studios Console Legacy content can be added to improve on quality of life aspects with Current Gen. Faster Rails, the Ability within the confines of the game to Reset the Nether and End, Limited World Size (Which can help those with older computers), Smaller Biomes, More Structures, etc. There is alot that Mojang can do to improve current Gen, but they seem to focus on nerfing or even outright removing good features moreso as of late.
There are also Java Features that could come to Bedrock such as Single Biome Worlds and Custom Worlds (Based upon Block placement on the Y Axis). Granted CrackedMagnet recently made this possible through new world generation with specific tags set outside of the game, showing that it is possible in Bedrock, but only locked away due to only needing a UI Upgrade. This can be done on Bedrock as on Java and Console Legacy just with a UI Change to allow direct access to it within the game, but has not been done yet by Mojang.
Not to say all the 1.20 stuff is bad. Camels can be a major gamechanger on Bedrock Edition compared to Java Edition since Bedrock Players can't build above the Nether Roof. Since Players cannot be hit by Mobs of a Height upto 2 while riding a camel, a Camel can essentially become a major Gold farm/grinding tool in the Nether with the right setup. Not to mention the huge buff Bamboo is getting which will render other Wood Farms Obsolete on both Editions. Cherry Blossoms will also make Pink Dye so much easier to get. Just doesn't make sense why after three major updates, making Netherite Gear will suddenly be made so much harder to obtain, not to mention how that change impacts older worlds much heavier than new worlds in Survival due to more of the Nether already being explored (This is where a 'Reset the Nether' feature within the game like Console Legacy had would make sense.
As for Reverting Maps Back to an Older version, due to what was experienced with MCPE-164022 on the JIRA, the maps would break with the newer content. The Client Version would allow for newer objects placed before the Revert to technically exist in the reverted worldspace, however once interacted with will disappear and won't be obtainable. So you are also correct about that AGT, while not so much corruption, it's incompatibility that causes this, though corruption can still happen.
We shouldn't need a third party application, that's the point.
The fact that there isn't a vanilla option for this in bedrock edition, version locking, it creates problems for people who want to customize their experience of the game or have specific rules on individual servers that mean blocking an update for whatever reason, it may not just be about what's balanced or not, it could mean something else, sometimes people run older versions of the game because of hardware reasons, this happens on Java edition, I do not see why it would be any different on bedrock edition had this feature been official. Caves and Cliffs update for example is known to be more demanding on PC's because of the amount of terrain generating on the Y coordinate, and it is no longer 256 blocks like it used to be.
I for one am not too bothered about having greater terrain depth as it allows caves to be larger, the problem I had with it is not the depth, it is the increased difficulty in finding ores, and I don't feel that deepslate taking longer to mine than stone is justified because of the fact that it has the same blast resistance as stone, it offers no greater benefits against Creeper attack than any other material of the same blast resistance, iron isn't as common as it should be either imo which punishes players who go out of their way to mine for resources instead of relying on other means like mob grinders.
The other issue with version locking is it means players will miss out on features they do like, which is why in the past and even now, I still recommend adding in more tiers of survival mode, so players do have a sandbox experience and can create their own restrictions, without the use of cheats or game rule commands, it means those players are still able to earn some achievements on the Xbox Live platform, just not as many as they would on harder modes.
The use of creative mode in a separate world for the purposes of testing builds isn't the issue I was talking about, it's the suggestion that people who play survival exclusively to collect resources then build infrastructure, are then being told by some people "you're not playing this game right" I am irked by, and this often happens not just here, but on Youtube in comment sections by people who are advocating that some mechanics of the game be nerfed massively, making it impractical for some players to even do anything worthwhile in survival, while people who proclaim themselves to be hardcore get catered to. It shouldn't be this way and I hope that that never happens, otherwise, they get everything their way, while the rest of the community are marginalized. Minecraft is meant to cater to multiple different play styles, not allow one sector of a community to impose their will against other's, this is the point of a sandbox, you create your own adventure, your own story, and your own community, if you're a server admin and/or active player on a world.
Now as for the 'Creative being Cheating', I'm on the middle ground between you AGT and Princess_Garnet.
I just want to point out that I am not of the stance that using creative to supplement survival in a world that is meant for survival purposes isn't "cheating". If anything I am probably more "strict" about what survival "should be" than most others (I ultimately think that it is up to the individual to decide what is acceptable, however, given it is at least some degree of a sandbox game, even in survival).
I already explained this, but my "use creative" comment was solely in context of people who want to work around the gameplay loops and grind of getting things in survival and just want to build. I was merely saying it is there. It wasn't a suggestion of what I think should be used in this particular instance. And it wasn't saying there aren't people who play survival more for building than for combat or mining. I'm not unaware of that, as I am one of those players.
I just want to point out that I am not of the stance that using creative to supplement survival in a world that is meant for survival purposes isn't "cheating". If anything I am probably more "strict" about what survival "should be" than most others (I ultimately think that it is up to the individual to decide what is acceptable, however, given it is at least some degree of a sandbox game, even in survival).
I already explained this, but my "use creative" comment was solely in context of people who want to work around the gameplay loops and grind of getting things in survival and just want to build. I was merely saying it is there. It wasn't a suggestion of what I think should be used in this particular instance. And it wasn't saying there aren't people who play survival more for building than for combat or mining. I'm not unaware of that, as I am one of those players.
Some people find creative mode boring, as people are handed unlimited resources for no work and not even farms are needed, you get these resources in inventory, infinitely and without penalty, it is the opposite extreme that some build style players are avoiding, which is why some of them play survival mode.
In survival, resource farms do have some kind of use and are, at least for the time being, worth building,
mending is also worth using because it allows some leniency in reducing the grind and gameplay loops that builders in the game are bothered by and would rather do without, if those are nerfed and then resources need to be spent on a per repair basis, the grindy gameplay loops may become excessive for them.
This is why there should be separate tiers of survival mode so that build style players are not forced against their will to use cheats, creative mode or anything of the sort.
They, myself included, don't want to play creative mode for this, if we did, we wouldn't be having this conversation about it.
We shouldn't need a third party application, that's the point.
The fact that there isn't a vanilla option for this in bedrock edition, version locking, it creates problems for people who want to customize their experience of the game or have specific rules on individual servers that mean blocking an update for whatever reason, it may not just be about what's balanced or not, it could mean something else, sometimes people run older versions of the game because of hardware reasons, this happens on Java edition, I do not see why it would be any different on bedrock edition had this feature been official. Caves and Cliffs update for example is known to be more demanding on PC's because of the amount of terrain generating on the Y coordinate, and it is no longer 256 blocks like it used to be.
Agreed, but not just should Bedrock Players not have to use a third party tool such as MCLauncher, they shouldn't have to earn the right to it on Bedrock Edition either via being a Marketplace Content Creator as they have the ability to lock maps to a particular version of the game. Even if it's for nothing more than compatibility reasons, this proves such a feature is infact in Bedrock Edition, it does exist, but is locked away from most of the userbase save Marketplace Content Creators and Devs, and the question is why? This in itself could benefit players who have older computers or prefer a certain version for any given reason.
I for one am not too bothered about having greater terrain depth as it allows caves to be larger, the problem I had with it is not the depth, it is the increased difficulty in finding ores, and I don't feel that deepslate taking longer to mine than stone is justified because of the fact that it has the same blast resistance as stone, it offers no greater benefits against Creeper attack than any other material of the same blast resistance, iron isn't as common as it should be either imo which punishes players who go out of their way to mine for resources instead of relying on other means like mob grinders.
The 1.18 and 1.18.10 Ore Nerfs done by Jeb are bothersome indeed. 1.17 had the most balanced Ore Generation hands down and I know a couple of people who run Java Servers who made a 'Resource World' using Vanilla 1.17 for this very reason so they don't have to use Paper or other Map Generators which can complicate matters further on Java. And having to flock to a 'Mountain' Biome in 1.18+ Generation for Coal and Iron in even a decent amount is a mining deterrent and makes me want to make an Iron Farm/Zombie Grinder instead, or instead raid shipwrecks and/or Abandoned Mineshafts just for Iron Ingots from the Loot Chests which proves your point.
The other issue with version locking is it means players will miss out on features they do like, which is why in the past and even now, I still recommend adding in more tiers of survival mode, so players do have a sandbox experience and can create their own restrictions, without the use of cheats or game rule commands, it means those players are still able to earn some achievements on the Xbox Live platform, just not as many as they would on harder modes.
More Toggleable Features in vanilla that don't Enable Cheats would be cool. Phantom Generation in my opinion should be a Toggle without enabling cheats due to how many players on both platforms dislike them. A rebalance of Survival could work too.
The use of creative mode in a separate world for the purposes of testing builds isn't the issue I was talking about, it's the suggestion that people who play survival exclusively to collect resources then build infrastructure, are then being told by some people "you're not playing this game right" I am irked by, and this often happens not just here, but on Youtube in comment sections by people who are advocating that some mechanics of the game be nerfed massively, making it impractical for some players to even do anything worthwhile in survival, while people who proclaim themselves to be hardcore get catered to. It shouldn't be this way and I hope that that never happens, otherwise, they get everything their way, while the rest of the community are marginalized. Minecraft is meant to cater to multiple different play styles, not allow one sector of a community to impose their will against other's, this is the point of a sandbox, you create your own adventure, your own story, and your own community, if you're a server admin and/or active player on a world.
"You're not playing this game right." Reminds me of an instance I had back on the Console Legacy days where a player I used to play the game with was extremely combat oriented and all he did was kill hostile mobs. He wouldn't even sleep at night, knowing I wasn't combat oriented like he was. I built a house to live in due to not being combat oriented like he was so I could be safe so I could play casually while still respecting this person's playstyle. He came back from underground, looked at me, looked at my house, and then back at me and said "You don't know how to play the game properly." in which I logged out and never played with that player again. While each person has their preferences, I get your worry about a portion of the community getting something removed from the general consensus of the community due to action or opinion.
I would say for the release date of 1.20, IBXToyCat is predicting the first or second week due to Pre-Releases being released as well as the release date of 1.19.
Well it sounds like you want to largely bypass the gameplay motions required to obtain things in survival, which can already be made overly accommodating with things like enchants, potions, elytra, and countless other things, so I'm not sure what to suggest other than to point out that creative exists for that explicit purpose.
Especially if you feel this way while using farms, I really don't know what to say. There's only an arbitrary distinction between that and using creative mode in my mind. Obviously you can't make farms for everything creative would allow, but for the things you can make farms for, you're still bypassing the intended survival gameplay motions meant in order to gain access to those things. The entire point of survival in my mind is the gated access to things, because it's delayed gratification (needing to put in time and interactive effort for the resources as well as building) and opposed to creative (instant and no interactive effort for the resources and only needing to worry about building).
If memory isn't failing me, I believe Mojang has stated (this was many many years back) that they do not want survival to "play itself" for the players, and I entirely agree with that notion. When playing in survival, you are meant to do certain things to obtain certain things. While it's a sandbox and I don't think Mojang hasn't really went out of their way to break farms (nor am i saying they should), they also shouldn't go out of their way to accommodate them (meaning if they want to make another change that makes sense for survival, but it breaks a farm, they shouldn't have to NOT make that change that for the sake of farms). Nor should they make things overly easy to the point it strips survival of even more of its point, as survival is MEANT to have gated access to things, and as I said before, it's already seriously accommodating in many ways.
Well it sounds like you want to largely bypass the gameplay motions required to obtain things in survival, which can already be made overly accommodating with things like enchants, potions, elytra, and countless other things, so I'm not sure what to suggest other than to point out that creative exists for that explicit purpose.
Thankfully Console Legacy Xbox 360 Worlds are convertable to current gen which resolves most of the matters brought by 1.18+ Ore Generation Nerfs. Kinda wish I could keep them to 864 X 864 as these older smaller worlds are just fun to play on with all aspects of the game. Exploration, mining, etc, and I wish that these features from 4J Studios like limited map sizes with smaller biomes for example could be brought to current gen. With Solo Play, the third party program MCLauncher allows me to travel back to older versions of Bedrock as well so I can for example generate more balanced Ore Generation in 1.17 then upgrade the map to 1.19. Digging through Deepslate Blobs in 1.17 with an almost equal chance to find any ore from Y=15 to Y=0 is just fun. Maybe it's the nolstalgia attached to these older features that I enjoy as I have good memories with friends enjoying them, like with a friend who made a 1.17 map using the Seed Craig as a reference to the Halo Infinite Craig Meme XD. We built Craig's face on the Mountain at Spawn and anything good that happened on the server we jokingly said was a gift from Craig XD. Now that doesn't mean I was crazy like them running through Abandoned Mineshafts with no torches panicking over the Xbox LIVE Party XD. Guess sometimes to have fun, you just gotta get weird with it XD.
The Elytra, such a deadly deadly item. I stay away from that thing and prefer to use Riptide XD. This decision has baffled Java and Bedrock Players alike, but the trick is what I call the 65 degree angle trick. This will keep you in the air XD and on Bedrock it doesn't lose durability unless you hit another mob or player, so you can stay airborne.
I will say though with the farms, there was one Iron Farm iteration a friend of mine made that ended up being moreso fun in the end as it's shape was a literal UFO, he called it 'The Mothership' XD. Sometimes in an odd sense, these farms in themselves can inspire creativity XD.
If memory isn't failing me, I believe Mojang has stated (this was many many years back) that they do not want survival to "play itself" for the players, and I entirely agree with that notion. When playing in survival, you are meant to do certain things to obtain certain things. While it's a sandbox and I don't think Mojang hasn't really went out of their way to break farms (nor am i saying they should), they also shouldn't go out of their way to accommodate them (meaning if they want to make another change that makes sense for survival, but it breaks a farm, they shouldn't have to NOT make that change that for the sake of farms). Nor should they make things overly easy to the point it strips survival of even more of its point, as survival is MEANT to have gated access to things, and as I said before, it's already seriously accommodating in many ways.
It's some of the choices that Jeb himself has made that I question. Like Jeb changing the Drowned's drops from Gold Ingots to Copper Ingots to cater to Lady Agnes in 1.17 (Which is why I am welcoming the Camel in 1.20 as an awesome Counterbalance to this), or making Deepslate Emerald Ore borderline impossible to find in 1.18+ (it is currently the rarest block in the game) where it was uncommon to find in 1.17. Copper Ore is seriously abundant as it is compared to gold ore, and Deepslate Emerald Ore is just an awesome block considering I collect rough emerald specimens in reallife and the Deepslate Ore variant does it more justice than the base ore variant. It's when that gated access bar gets raised in an update to such a severe degree in a single update with no given explanation that makes sense, that makes literally no sense that makes me question the matter and look to other alternatives when applicable. The removal of the Notch Apple Recipe many updates ago made sense due to how overpowered the Notch Apple was, but some of these other recent changes that raise the gated access bar I dunno. While I personally wasn't affected by the 1.19.81 nerf to Adult Horses that they no longer fit in boats, I still do question that since Sea Turtles can still fit in boats and are way larger than horses.
Thankfully Console Legacy Xbox 360 Worlds are convertable to current gen which resolves most of the matters brought by 1.18+ Ore Generation Nerfs. Kinda wish I could keep them to 864 X 864 as these older smaller worlds are just fun to play on with all aspects of the game. Exploration, mining, etc, and I wish that these features from 4J Studios like limited map sizes with smaller biomes for example could be brought to current gen. With Solo Play, the third party program MCLauncher allows me to travel back to older versions of Bedrock as well so I can for example generate more balanced Ore Generation in 1.17 then upgrade the map to 1.19. Digging through Deepslate Blobs in 1.17 with an almost equal chance to find any ore from Y=15 to Y=0 is just fun. Maybe it's the nolstalgia attached to these older features that I enjoy as I have good memories with friends enjoying them, like with a friend who made a 1.17 map using the Seed Craig as a reference to the Halo Infinite Craig Meme XD. We built Craig's face on the Mountain at Spawn and anything good that happened on the server we jokingly said was a gift from Craig XD. Now that doesn't mean I was crazy like them running through Abandoned Mineshafts with no torches panicking over the Xbox LIVE Party XD. Guess sometimes to have fun, you just gotta get weird with it XD.
The Elytra, such a deadly deadly item. I stay away from that thing and prefer to use Riptide XD. This decision has baffled Java and Bedrock Players alike, but the trick is what I call the 65 degree angle trick. This will keep you in the air XD and on Bedrock it doesn't lose durability unless you hit another mob or player, so you can stay airborne.
I will say though with the farms, there was one Iron Farm iteration a friend of mine made that ended up being moreso fun in the end as it's shape was a literal UFO, he called it 'The Mothership' XD. Sometimes in an odd sense, these farms in themselves can inspire creativity XD.
It's some of the choices that Jeb himself has made that I question. Like Jeb changing the Drowned's drops from Gold Ingots to Copper Ingots to cater to Lady Agnes in 1.17 (Which is why I am welcoming the Camel in 1.20 as an awesome Counterbalance to this), or making Deepslate Emerald Ore borderline impossible to find in 1.18+ (it is currently the rarest block in the game) where it was uncommon to find in 1.17. Copper Ore is seriously abundant as it is compared to gold ore, and Deepslate Emerald Ore is just an awesome block considering I collect rough emerald specimens in reallife and the Deepslate Ore variant does it more justice than the base ore variant. It's when that gated access bar gets raised in an update to such a severe degree in a single update with no given explanation that makes sense, that makes literally no sense that makes me question the matter and look to other alternatives when applicable. The removal of the Notch Apple Recipe many updates ago made sense due to how overpowered the Notch Apple was, but some of these other recent changes that raise the gated access bar I dunno. While I personally wasn't affected by the 1.19.81 nerf to Adult Horses that they no longer fit in boats, I still do question that since Sea Turtles can still fit in boats and are way larger than horses.
The issue of the thread is when the goalposts of gated access to resources keep getting shifted all the time, and that's why it provokes complaints from some members of the community, why is it so difficult for some people to understand why some people want to play survival for the purposes of collecting resources then to build with the resources they had earned legitimately, without cheats or creative mode?
If we don't even get a feature to toggle these nerfs off which may become too prohibitive to our own projects, then no compromise has been made, it's giving one sector of the community what they want, but leaving the rest of us out. I'm tired of having to explain why to some people why some of us don't want to play creative mode, as it simply doesn't provide us the experience of the game that we want.
In survival, we don't mind the occasional death, provided those deaths came from situations that were our own fault or as a result of our own misjudgment when we were given plenty of opportunities or time to evade a hazard, as we currently do most of the time. But when they happen because the items we need to defend ourselves become too difficult to obtain as a result of a future nerf, then it's no longer catering to a casual experience. I understand it isn't all about me, but it isn't all about everybody else either, at some point people have to learn how to make deals with people, or issues will never be resolved and we're stuck in an endless virtual war over this, which neither of us truly want.
I never told anyone they aren't playing the game right just because they want to play it their own way. Like, what?
Look, the entire reason I responded was because you seemed unhappy with things, so I was was trying giving you your most practical options in order to get the most happiness and value out of your time. That's it. It was a suggestion of good intent to take care of yourself. Nothing more. If you're going to see any and every "nerf" as a negative (I disagree with this mentality), and if you do not enjoy the game, then you should find something that you do enjoy. That is the most logical answer. I'm not saying you can''t have criticism of things you like (that's actually healthy) but your stance seems like one where you are seriously unhappy with a lot of changes not appealing to you so it has me wondering if there are more pleasant things that would appeal to you. Again, it was just a though/suggestion coming from a place of trying to make sure you take care of yourself. I'm not sure why you're choosing to vent frustration at me just because I have a different opinion than you. So what? Forget me and take care of yourself. I mean that.
I was only trying to help you because you sounded frustrated in general, but now I feel like I'm getting the frustration directed at me.
The issue of the thread is when the goalposts of gated access to resources keep getting shifted all the time, and that's why it provokes complaints from some members of the community,
I already tried to help you here, but this is sort of what you have to live with when you are playing an actively changing game, and playing on a version that forces changes upon you. Expecting every change to be one you approve of, especially with something that has a community as large and vast as Minecraft does, is unrealistic. Any individual one opinion (yours, mine, TheMasterCaver's, anyone's) is unlikely to entirely align with the average that Mojang will try to appeal to. That's just how it goes. You HAVE to be able to deal with changes when playing an actively changing game, especially a version that forces changes upon you.
why is it so difficult for some people to understand why some people want to play survival for the purposes of collecting resources then to build with the resources they had earned legitimately, without cheats or creative mode?
If we don't even get a feature to toggle these nerfs off which may become too prohibitive to our own projects, then no compromise has been made, it's giving one sector of the community what they want, but leaving the rest of us out.
Nobody here seems to have trouble understanding that people want to play their own way, so I'll presume this is just more vented frustration of what you've dealt with elsewhere.
I am a bit taken back at how you seem to feel like you are actively being marginalized simply because changes you don't like occur. I hope I am merely getting the wrong impression, though.
I never told anyone they aren't playing the game right just because they want to play it their own way. Like, what?
Look, the entire reason I responded was because you seemed unhappy with things, so I was was trying giving you your most practical options in order to get the most happiness and value out of your time. That's it. It was a suggestion of good intent to take care of yourself. Nothing more. If you're going to see any and every "nerf" as a negative (I disagree with this mentality), and if you do not enjoy the game, then you should find something that you do enjoy. That is the most logical answer. I'm not saying you can''t have criticism of things you like (that's actually healthy) but your stance seems like one where you are seriously unhappy with a lot of changes not appealing to you so it has me wondering if there are more pleasant things that would appeal to you. Again, it was just a though/suggestion coming from a place of trying to make sure you take care of yourself. I'm not sure why you're choosing to vent frustration at me just because I have a different opinion than you. So what? Forget me and take care of yourself. I mean that.
I was only trying to help you because you sounded frustrated in general, but now I feel like I'm getting the frustration directed at me.
I already tried to help you here, but this is sort of what you have to live with when you are playing an actively changing game, and playing on a version that forces changes upon you. Expecting every change to be one you approve of, especially with something that has a community as large and vast as Minecraft does, is unrealistic. Any individual one opinion (yours, mine, TheMasterCaver's, anyone's) is unlikely to entirely align with the average that Mojang will try to appeal to. That's just how it goes. You HAVE to be able to deal with changes when playing an actively changing game, especially a version that forces changes upon you.
Nobody here seems to have trouble understanding that people want to play their own way, so I'll presume this is just more vented frustration of what you've dealt with elsewhere.
I am a bit taken back at how you seem to feel like you are actively being marginalized simply because changes you don't like occur. I hope I am merely getting the wrong impression, though.
Not every nerf was negative, no, I agreed with the Notch apple nerf and so did my friend chaptmc and most likely yourself, because at the time it was too easily to abuse, you get nigh invincibility continuously, just for having a gold farm. Its status effects would stack on top of whatever enchantments any player would've had at the time which did make the game too easy, now that enchanted golden apples can only be obtained in chests in certain naturally generated structures, that no longer applies, as the buff is now a rarity as it should be.
Now that the Notch apple has been dealt with, gold farms are no longer as much of a problem as they once were and depending on how ambitious your builds would be, they were useful for builds that used things like a lot of powered rails and such.
Like it or not some resources were intended to be farmable and there's no arguing it, that's why some items are found as loot drops from mobs and even in trades. If you fight a raid and defeat an Evoker and survive, you get totem of undying, which while powerful, can only be used once per item, once the item has been expended, you needed to earn another and these items were non stackable, these items are already balanced, and there are some situations the totem of undying wouldn't save you from, such as void in End, they're not comparable to the Golden Apple, especially the Notch version.
Punishing players for farming gear which was clearly by design, regardless of your intentions, is going to cause annoyance, and to tell those players to adapt or use creative mode is not an answer to the problem. I already explicitly stated numerous times in this thread that build style survival players are in survival mode for a reason and I mentioned I do not want to play creative mode, as I find it boring, I like to collect resources and have farms be useful, in creative there are no use for farms because everything is handed to you in inventory, which makes resource farms pointless.
You're not the only person who has suggested players who don't like excessive grind times play a different mode, you know? and it's missing the point entirely. Build style survival players don't mind some grind as long as it is rewarding enough, but when players keep getting punished for going out of their way to create resource farms and strip mines, their experience is being ruined, and for what? just to appease a crowd that have different opinions? it is being marginalized when other people get to force their opinions on us, in a sandbox game that was originally intended to cater to different play styles, this is why there should be separate tiers of survival mode, and I am not talking about peaceful difficulty, or modding. There is clearly a very serious problem with how the game is being handled when people like chaptmc, not just myself, don't feel they are being rewarded for their grind as a result of a nerf.
Even TheMasterCaver doesn't like the ore generation from 1.18, perhaps you should ask other people how they feel about the Caves and Cliffs update to get a better idea how divisive this update was for people.
I'm definitely not sure, but I think late may-mid june
Yeah I think so too
Wow, what an incredible and great suggestion!
Oh wait, this is the discussion forum, my bad.
Quote me if you need me to reply to something. DM me if I don't answer that.
Contacts on other sites currently disabled, if you want me to add you on steam, discord, or PMC, ask me and pass me your name so I add you.
Why should we care? from what I've seen of this update there isn't much good about it, yes we are getting archaeology and cherry blossoms, hanging signs etc, but we are also getting a requirement of templates to craft netherite gear, which is absurd. More work for the same items, and not in a good way.
There haven't been many updates I was genuinely very fond of, the last update I was in full agreement of was the Aquatic update, because we got a new weapon, a newer variant of Zombies as well as 4 newer enchantments related to the tridents, two of which synergized so well with the lightning rods from 1.17, but it has been years since an update this hedonistic happened, since then things have continued to get worse and the downfall started, at least for me, with the Pillager update of 1.14, where raids can cause problems at player bases no matter what measures you took to try to spawn proof it, it doesn't just happen on hard and hardcore difficulties, which would have made more sense, they happen on all except peaceful, they ruin player sanctuaries.
Look, I really wish I wasn't in a situation where I would have to complain a lot about things I didn't like, but knowing my bad luck in life, and other's, fate doesn't really treat us kindly here and it hasn't been any different with video games. If games aren't fun, what's the point? why do people spend so much money on expensive pieces of hardware, only to end up with software they don't like?
I do try to suggest alternatives, but every time I and other people do, our suggestions are often shot down by elitists in the gaming community who look down on casual players like myself.
1.18 update was a big one, and it did allow players to build higher as well as allow more realistic terrain to generate and the ground is deeper which means more room for cave systems and underground structures to generate, and it means more room for ores, as well as complex player structures to be built vertically, but that update also came with some massive downsides, one and the most obvious being how hard it can be to obtain ore items, and the time it takes to mine each deepslate block compared to stone can also be considered a nerf to mining.
I'm not at all excited for 1.20, given the circumstances, for some people if modding is the only alternative to making the game more interesting for ourselves, then we are turned off by this, and it could even be considered patronizing if we are told to use anything related to cheats.
The gaming landscape is unbelievably vast on the PC side alone. There's a lot to choose from. If someone ends up with software, I'd wager at some point they found it worthwhile to some degree, no? If not, they wouldn't have come into it to begin with.
If nothing takes your fancy, there's other hobbies out there, too.
Personally, I find gaming fun, and Minecraft in this particular case is a specific game I find fun. It's not perfect, but it never was either. And I find it getting better by the update.
Huh? I'm a bit lost.
You seem to post regularly but I don't often see people disagreeing with you on the regular? When it comes to small stuff, everyone has their own ideas of what should be what. What the game should change. What the game should add. If I probably tried to think of what "I" wanted the game to be (not even sure...), I expect far, far more people would disagree with it than they would agree. That's... expected. Don't take the fact that people disagree with you too personally. Instead, take the THINGS they are saying, and try to understand them to better understand WHAT they are saying, and then decide if you want to disagreement with it (agree to disagree) and move on, or maybe use it to reshape your opinion going forward (in the cases you find that you were maybe "wrong" before, and reshaping your opinion with outside input makes it better now).
But I guess I'm a bit lost because I don't see this occurring towards you?
The suggestion forum here is user to user. Once upon a time, a massive enough suggestion (with enough replies and constant attention) might get traction and echo throughout the community beyond the forums and by extension Mojang might hear it. But the suggestion forums are not, and probably never were even when the forum was active, a guarantee that Mojang would hear a players' opinions.
It's part of why I just share my opinion in regular posts and not as suggestions. If I do make some (which I did recently), it will usually be smaller and simpler stuff rather than complex stuff, and it will sort of be for the sake of it. I don't expect Mojang to catch wind of much of what gets suggested here.
But yeah, don't let "people are disagreeing with me" get you down too much. I'm disagreeing with you on some things here, yet I think you would know I'm not just "shooting you down" or whatever. Just focus on the particulars (what are they saying) rather than the fact they are disagreeing.
I think you're focusing too much on "thing was nerfed, everything is in a downward spiral". A nerf isn't necessarily bad, it's just one of two ways you can adjust things to balance it, and balance is important. With an actively developed game, you just have to be able to adapt to changes that may come. If not, sit on the version of your choice (I know you play Bedrock and it currently can't do this, but that's its own problem unfortunately).
Creative exists if you're not after that.
Deepslate isn't a huge chore to get. Once you have some enchantments (in particular, efficiency), stone was simply so fast to get. Mojang seemingly wanted to "nerf" that and in a way they did that in the best way possible. They did it indirectly.
Ores also aren't hard to get in my opinion. Harder than before maybe, but not hard still. They were simply easy to get before.
Interestingly, when I started my 1.16 world, and I'm fairly sure I made posts expressing this back then, I was disappointed whenever I had to go get iron or coal. It just wasn't fun. the caves were rather uncommon, seemingly small, and boring. I was overly focused on building though, and it took my while to get enchants (no unbreaking, no mending, no fortune, etc.), so I was constantly having to deal with the huge demands of my building pace and the constant gameplay loop of replacing things. This is no change late game, and I'd say it's both fun and more balanced nominally. But I do realize that's merely my opinion.
Still, I think you tend to focus too much on "thing was nerfed, ergo it's getting worse on the whole" and I think that's souring your perspective on things.
Some people need the existing mechanics of the game to get their projects done in survival mode in a reasonable amount of time, and if I wanted to play creative mode for this, don't you think I would've done so already? you didn't read the last line of my previous post, some of us don't want to have to turn cheats on just to do this.
There are elements of survival mode some players like myself do like, but they are conditional, while my play style is build first and foremost, I do enjoy to a point collecting resources for those, however what I don't enjoy doing is replacing everything that gets broken, nor does everybody else on my server and that's why features like resource farms and mending, are so important to us, as are the abundance of materials underground and we'd like to use the majority of them for our structures where we create our own fictional communities, and some of the tools in this game, namely stone and iron, have lousy durability and do not even last the full day and night cycle, which makes it impractical for people like me to use them when say, removing a mountain, for that I don't settle for anything less than diamond tools when I get my hands on them as well as enchantments like unbreaking III and mending, so I can continue to use the shovels, axes and pickaxes long after that task is complete.
You expect other's to adapt to change, for the sake of what you perceive as balance, the problem is this is a sandbox, and because of that we are meant to have options in how we experience the game, if that wasn't Mojang's original vision for the game then there wouldn't be the option to load in older versions in Java. Unfortunately bedrock edition players don't have this option, for people like us who play bedrock edition we're told to like it or lump it, no matter if an update was beneficial to our overall experience or not, we don't get the option to block them.
The other issue here is the bedrock server application, both in Windows and Linux, isn't very simple or intuitive to use, I had to run a script from somebody else who published this on another website just to get the application to auto start as well as do daily reboots and periodic automated updates. I cannot just turn this off without breaking something else with the program, and that's another issue Mojang haven't yet made easier for people. We should have the option in the properties file to do these things instead of having to rely on a third party or somebody else with more technical knowledge than us, and as of this current time, Minecraft bedrock server application for home users does not have automatic updates, you need to use a third party source to get that feature working, which I don't have to tell you why that is annoying.
And if my server updates to a version I don't like, I cannot just revert it, you know why this is? because it leads to file corruption,
because of the way the game works, world saves are easily corruptible when attempting to get them working with an older version of the game,
if I don't have a recent backup file to fall back on, then I'm screwed. Fortunately I do have an automated backup system in place, on two external hard drives, however there are some people out there who don't and will be inconvenienced by such a problem.
To that first point, you could take that further and say if they buffed things then certain things could be accomplished even faster, so why not do that then? So it's not a very valid reason to say something should be in a specific state.
Where the "right" spot is for balance will always be disagreed upon. Nothing would ever be able to be changed if Mojang had to accommodate if anyone ever feels like they can't accomplish something in a reasonably time or fashion.
As I said, and yes I read the post but creative isn't cheating, for those who are unhappy with the limitations of survival, creative is there. You know my stance and that I agree with you that the game would benefit from having more tuners and options for more things, but without them in place, there's going to have to be some median they decide upon, and if the criteria they use is "it needs to be able to allow something to be done reasonably fast in survival to the point nobody feels it is too slow" well then, they need to start buffing a whole lot of things to the point it breaks survival, because it's not there yet by that definition. And it shouldn't be. Creative is the pure sandbox mode.
I wasn't suggesting that you selectively change any particular survival world to creative. I was just saying that it's unreasonable to expect survival to meet the definition you gave.
Huh?
I'm not expecting anything.
What I am saying (and this really applies to life as a whole) is that when a given thing is actively changing, you should expect not all of those changes to be things you may like. So being flexible or adaptable is a good way to deal with it in general.
Yes, which is why I said that is its own issue.
I can't speak for this part since I'm not familiar with Bedrock, but running a server in general isn't necessarily a simple or hands off approach thing.
Yes, see above, I agree that the forced updates is a problem for Bedrock. It's part of their "better together" vision and approach I guess.
As for back ups, you (not you personally, but in a broad sense) should be backing up data you care about regardless. If there is data you cares about, and it wasn't backed up, then it is partially on you if it becomes lost. It sounds like you have this part done to some extent, but either way I'm not sure why you brought it up here when this has nothing to do with Minecraft specifically. The reasons for backing up apply regardless.
Playing a newer save in an older version was always an issue to some extent. The game isn't made to go backwards, and it doesn't need to be able to in my opinion. Normally you'd only update if you were sure you were willing to (and had backups), but yeah, Bedrock forces the updates. That's a Bedrock specific issue, and again, I can't speak for it.
I don't trust Microsoft's approach to handling this however, even if they had implemented a feature later on where versions of the game could be locked in bedrock edition for both the client and server and did it so it could be done easily in both Windows and Linux for the server application, my concern is they may prevent players from playing in online multiplayer and restrict it to either single player or LAN multiplayer, given the way they handle updates with other games on the Xbox Live service there are going to be some strings attached with this feature for certain and it might not just be a fee for a premium server app of some kind, it could end up being something far worse, even resulting in disabling of achievements, at that point it becomes no better than creative mode worlds.
What they should do is instead limit older versions so that only the achievements associated with that version could be earned if a world remains in survival with cheats disabled, any newer achievement added to the game can only be earned if the player updates to the newer version of the game. But the ideal or fair solution doesn't always happen as far as game development goes, sometimes we get screwed with new rules we can do nothing about.
And just because somebody plays in survival does not mean they should be forbidden from earning a large amount of resources they want for their structures or bases, not everybody plays the game for an unforgiving combat experience. Some people only play it for collecting of resources then using those resources to build large scale infrastructure for themselves and their friends to play around in. If resource farms and enchantments are nerfed too heavily, the game becomes too much of a grind for them and effectively creates a time sink that they do not want to bother with, it won't make them play creative mode, at least not most of them, myself included, all it would end up doing is pushing people like me away and we'd then find some other sandbox to play, as we would no longer feel catered to.
Everybody has different ideas of what they consider fun,
I don't find creative mode fun, it's boring, and I don't see why I should have to use this mode just because some other people
are picky about what other's do in survival mode.
Of course. You're speaking to someone who largely plays the same way.
You currently can obtain a large amount of resources in survival. The only limit is time and effort.
I think you're still misunderstanding my overall point. My overall point was that I think you tend to focus too much on "thing is nerfed, ergo everything is in a downward spiral". Maybe you don't like the direction things have headed, and that's fine, but I was just saying that because it seems like it looms over your enjoyment of the game. I was just trying o give you a realistic view of your options to make sure your own time is spent in a way that you find it enjoyable.
As I said, if the game is no longer something you find fun, move to a state of the game that works for you (might require moving to java or modding it) or find games that are. There's not really many other options. You're playing a game that is actively changing. You're playing in a version of the game that is "force" updated. If you're not willing to be flexible and adaptable to changes, then I'm not sure I have a better suggestion/solution to your dissatisfaction with it.
Everyone's idea of what the game should be differs too much. Anyone expecting something developed for a wider community to be perfect for them alone has unrealistic expectations.
Then that is what happens. As a given thing changes, eventually there are some people that may no longer find it as enjoyable.
If your enjoyment of the game relies heavily upon a specific thing, and that thing is changed, then I don't know what to tell you if you don't want to take steps to better it (even if those steps mean giving up on that particular thing/game and finding something that you find more enjoyable to replace it). Though, I'm not sure how "deelsplate is still fast to acquire, just not as insanely fast like stone" is make or break for you though.
Before I respond to AGT and Princess_Garnet, I'm going with Youtuber IBXToycat's guess of a June Release for 1.20.
AGT, where you are coming from is that since 1.16 on Bedrock at least one major nerf was implemented with each Update. You are correct, as here is the nerf log I have.
1.16.100: Jeb removes the ability to fish/villager trade for Soul Speed Books and removes the Netherite Hoe and Glowstone Dust from Piglin Bartering. All quantities for bartered items are reduced.
1.17: Jeb removes the Drowned's Gold Ingot drops and replaces them with Copper Ingots which makes no sense. This impacts Bedrock Users moreso than Java users. Jeb uses LadyAgnes for this as a scapegoat because she wanted easy access to copper. Large Dripleaf due to a Bug on Bedrock can be placed on any block. Java Edition users state their opinion on Large Dripleaf, wanting parity with Bedrock so it can be used as a delay device in Redstone.
1.18: Jeb nerfs the spawn rates of Deepslate Emerald Ore and Deepslate Coal ore as they were initially met to be Creative Only items for Minecraft Marketplace Content Creators, but due to an oversight in 1.17, the game generated them in Vanilla. Jeb nerfs Diamond Ore generation on Java Edition. The new Terrain Generation makes biomes too big, making finding structures even harder. Jeb instead of implementing Bedrock parity on Java with the Large Dripleaf implements Java Parity on Bedrock and removes this ability instead.
1.18.10: Java users state that Bedrock Edition's Diamond Ore distribution was not nerfed but Java Edition's was. Java players wanted parity with Bedrock for more Diamond Ore. Jeb instead nerfs Bedrock's Diamond Ore distribution to match Java Editions
1.19: Jeb intentionally puts the Deep Dark specifically where Deepslate Emerald Ore Generates making Deepslate Emerald Ore even harder to get.
1.19.80 and 1.19.81: Jeb removes the ability to put Adult Horses in Boats on Minecraft Bedrock Edition implementing Java Parity on Bedrock Edition despite Java Players wanting Bedrock Parity on Java Edition to put Horses in Boats on Java Edition.
Now in upcoming 1.20: Upgrading Diamond Gear to Netherite now requires one Netherite Ingot as well as an Upgrade Template {found exclusively in 1.20+ generated Piglin Bastions). If 'Show Coordinates' are enabled, Death Coordinates will show on the screen upon a Player's Death, nerfing the Recovery Compass to the Point of being useless if 'Show Coordinates' is being used.
Now I do use MCLauncher from time to time to go back to version 1.14.30, 1.16.02, and 1.17.41 for Solo Play as they are fun versions of Older Bedrock Edition, but your case AGT is that we should be able to go back to older versions without the use of a Third Party Program as such or using .apk files or modifying a world's baseGameVersion NBT value in a world's Level.dat to lock a world to a specific Bedrock Version via hardlocking (via .apk) or softlocking (Via Simulation). Once again understandable. Yes, a World through a Third Party Program such as NBTStudio or Universal Minecraft Editor can modify the baseGameVersion NBT Tag and lock a Bedrock world to a certain version, but it would be nice to do this within the Confines of the game, such an ingame feature on Bedrock shouldn't be limited to only Marketplace Content Creators (As it is); shouldn't have to use a third party program to access a feature on a World that Marketplace Content Creators have access to within Bedrock Editon by default. If the Marketplace Content Creators have access to locking worlds to a certain version within Bedrock Edition itself, the playerbase should also have access to that feature.
Now as for the 'Creative being Cheating', I'm on the middle ground between you AGT and Princess_Garnet. Creating/Updating a World to Creative Mode sets NBT Values CommandsEnabled and HasBeeninCreative to a value of 1, disabling achievements. Now if said Creative World at that point (Regardless of Reason for creating it) is left in Creative Mode and used as such, then fine, however if work is then done to said world and then a third party tool sets the world back to Survival and sets CommandsEnabled and HasBeeninCreative NBT Tags back to 0, that is Cheating, as it circumvents what Survival is about, especially if this is used to give a player an advantage to give them OP/ normally unobtainable items or is used this way to with intention unlock XBox LIVE Achievements or Playstation Trophies.
If a Server or Map Owner uses a Creative Copy of their world or Server to find things, the bounds of what is defined as Cheating at that point is bound to the definition of the Server/Map Owner themselves (They could technically use ChunkApp to find the same stuff), and those who don't agree with the Server/Map Owner doing so can just look elsewhere to play. This is different from Admin Abuse where an Admin would use their powers to hurt other players through griefing them or stealing from them despite having rules against it.
Creative Mode can be utilized to test certain technical builds before building them in a Survival Mode, such as Grinders and Redstone Contraptions. This I would not consider Cheating either as I would rather build it right the first time in Survival isntead of using Trial and Error. Also strictly playing in Creative Mode is a player preference and that in itself in my book isn't cheating. It simply means whatever they built they didn't gather the resources for, didn't deal with mobs, and don't have access to achievements. It takes away from what they built a little bit, but not cheating in my book due to being confined to Creative Mode. People have their preferences for their versions and modes, as I will show next.
I will say that the 1.18+ Updates does personally have me yearning for Mojang to reimplement Console Legacy World Generation and sizes of Classic, Small, Medium, and Large, with Current Gen Content. For example on Console Legacy Xbox 360 Title Update 73 on the seed 2020 within an 864 X 864 Blockspace, four Woodland Mansions Generate within that small space, yet on Current Gen Java/Bedrock, you generally have to travel tens of thousands of blocks to find a Single Woodland Mansion. The 1.18+ Larger Biomes in Current Gen I feel in Survival makes it more Grindy to find stuff too. Having a limited world size with finite resources made you think about how to use those resources effectively and was fun compared to traveling out farther and farther in Survival and increasing a world size indefinately. Granted the Wandering Trader can help with some of these issues offering some biome specific items, but it's not a solid fix. This is the reason why I had alot of Console Legacy Classic Size Worlds (Fresh, not built on, just generated) converted over from Console Legacy Xbox 360 Edition to Bedrock Edition as well as all of the Console Legacy Tutorial Worlds XD.
My opinion is that there are many opportunities here for Mojang to make their game better on both platforms with Bedrock Parity on Java as well as for an expanded audience, but it sways the other way instead taking away what can be good potential material to improve on what already exists, not to mention some of 4J Studios Console Legacy content can be added to improve on quality of life aspects with Current Gen. Faster Rails, the Ability within the confines of the game to Reset the Nether and End, Limited World Size (Which can help those with older computers), Smaller Biomes, More Structures, etc. There is alot that Mojang can do to improve current Gen, but they seem to focus on nerfing or even outright removing good features moreso as of late.
There are also Java Features that could come to Bedrock such as Single Biome Worlds and Custom Worlds (Based upon Block placement on the Y Axis). Granted CrackedMagnet recently made this possible through new world generation with specific tags set outside of the game, showing that it is possible in Bedrock, but only locked away due to only needing a UI Upgrade. This can be done on Bedrock as on Java and Console Legacy just with a UI Change to allow direct access to it within the game, but has not been done yet by Mojang.
Not to say all the 1.20 stuff is bad. Camels can be a major gamechanger on Bedrock Edition compared to Java Edition since Bedrock Players can't build above the Nether Roof. Since Players cannot be hit by Mobs of a Height upto 2 while riding a camel, a Camel can essentially become a major Gold farm/grinding tool in the Nether with the right setup. Not to mention the huge buff Bamboo is getting which will render other Wood Farms Obsolete on both Editions. Cherry Blossoms will also make Pink Dye so much easier to get. Just doesn't make sense why after three major updates, making Netherite Gear will suddenly be made so much harder to obtain, not to mention how that change impacts older worlds much heavier than new worlds in Survival due to more of the Nether already being explored (This is where a 'Reset the Nether' feature within the game like Console Legacy had would make sense.
As for Reverting Maps Back to an Older version, due to what was experienced with MCPE-164022 on the JIRA, the maps would break with the newer content. The Client Version would allow for newer objects placed before the Revert to technically exist in the reverted worldspace, however once interacted with will disappear and won't be obtainable. So you are also correct about that AGT, while not so much corruption, it's incompatibility that causes this, though corruption can still happen.
We shouldn't need a third party application, that's the point.
The fact that there isn't a vanilla option for this in bedrock edition, version locking, it creates problems for people who want to customize their experience of the game or have specific rules on individual servers that mean blocking an update for whatever reason, it may not just be about what's balanced or not, it could mean something else, sometimes people run older versions of the game because of hardware reasons, this happens on Java edition, I do not see why it would be any different on bedrock edition had this feature been official. Caves and Cliffs update for example is known to be more demanding on PC's because of the amount of terrain generating on the Y coordinate, and it is no longer 256 blocks like it used to be.
I for one am not too bothered about having greater terrain depth as it allows caves to be larger, the problem I had with it is not the depth, it is the increased difficulty in finding ores, and I don't feel that deepslate taking longer to mine than stone is justified because of the fact that it has the same blast resistance as stone, it offers no greater benefits against Creeper attack than any other material of the same blast resistance, iron isn't as common as it should be either imo which punishes players who go out of their way to mine for resources instead of relying on other means like mob grinders.
The other issue with version locking is it means players will miss out on features they do like, which is why in the past and even now, I still recommend adding in more tiers of survival mode, so players do have a sandbox experience and can create their own restrictions, without the use of cheats or game rule commands, it means those players are still able to earn some achievements on the Xbox Live platform, just not as many as they would on harder modes.
The use of creative mode in a separate world for the purposes of testing builds isn't the issue I was talking about, it's the suggestion that people who play survival exclusively to collect resources then build infrastructure, are then being told by some people "you're not playing this game right" I am irked by, and this often happens not just here, but on Youtube in comment sections by people who are advocating that some mechanics of the game be nerfed massively, making it impractical for some players to even do anything worthwhile in survival, while people who proclaim themselves to be hardcore get catered to. It shouldn't be this way and I hope that that never happens, otherwise, they get everything their way, while the rest of the community are marginalized. Minecraft is meant to cater to multiple different play styles, not allow one sector of a community to impose their will against other's, this is the point of a sandbox, you create your own adventure, your own story, and your own community, if you're a server admin and/or active player on a world.
I just want to point out that I am not of the stance that using creative to supplement survival in a world that is meant for survival purposes isn't "cheating". If anything I am probably more "strict" about what survival "should be" than most others (I ultimately think that it is up to the individual to decide what is acceptable, however, given it is at least some degree of a sandbox game, even in survival).
I already explained this, but my "use creative" comment was solely in context of people who want to work around the gameplay loops and grind of getting things in survival and just want to build. I was merely saying it is there. It wasn't a suggestion of what I think should be used in this particular instance. And it wasn't saying there aren't people who play survival more for building than for combat or mining. I'm not unaware of that, as I am one of those players.
Some people find creative mode boring, as people are handed unlimited resources for no work and not even farms are needed, you get these resources in inventory, infinitely and without penalty, it is the opposite extreme that some build style players are avoiding, which is why some of them play survival mode.
In survival, resource farms do have some kind of use and are, at least for the time being, worth building,
mending is also worth using because it allows some leniency in reducing the grind and gameplay loops that builders in the game are bothered by and would rather do without, if those are nerfed and then resources need to be spent on a per repair basis, the grindy gameplay loops may become excessive for them.
This is why there should be separate tiers of survival mode so that build style players are not forced against their will to use cheats, creative mode or anything of the sort.
They, myself included, don't want to play creative mode for this, if we did, we wouldn't be having this conversation about it.
Chaptmc understands my point about this already.
Agreed, but not just should Bedrock Players not have to use a third party tool such as MCLauncher, they shouldn't have to earn the right to it on Bedrock Edition either via being a Marketplace Content Creator as they have the ability to lock maps to a particular version of the game. Even if it's for nothing more than compatibility reasons, this proves such a feature is infact in Bedrock Edition, it does exist, but is locked away from most of the userbase save Marketplace Content Creators and Devs, and the question is why? This in itself could benefit players who have older computers or prefer a certain version for any given reason.
The 1.18 and 1.18.10 Ore Nerfs done by Jeb are bothersome indeed. 1.17 had the most balanced Ore Generation hands down and I know a couple of people who run Java Servers who made a 'Resource World' using Vanilla 1.17 for this very reason so they don't have to use Paper or other Map Generators which can complicate matters further on Java. And having to flock to a 'Mountain' Biome in 1.18+ Generation for Coal and Iron in even a decent amount is a mining deterrent and makes me want to make an Iron Farm/Zombie Grinder instead, or instead raid shipwrecks and/or Abandoned Mineshafts just for Iron Ingots from the Loot Chests which proves your point.
More Toggleable Features in vanilla that don't Enable Cheats would be cool. Phantom Generation in my opinion should be a Toggle without enabling cheats due to how many players on both platforms dislike them. A rebalance of Survival could work too.
"You're not playing this game right." Reminds me of an instance I had back on the Console Legacy days where a player I used to play the game with was extremely combat oriented and all he did was kill hostile mobs. He wouldn't even sleep at night, knowing I wasn't combat oriented like he was. I built a house to live in due to not being combat oriented like he was so I could be safe so I could play casually while still respecting this person's playstyle. He came back from underground, looked at me, looked at my house, and then back at me and said "You don't know how to play the game properly." in which I logged out and never played with that player again. While each person has their preferences, I get your worry about a portion of the community getting something removed from the general consensus of the community due to action or opinion.
I would say for the release date of 1.20, IBXToyCat is predicting the first or second week due to Pre-Releases being released as well as the release date of 1.19.
Well it sounds like you want to largely bypass the gameplay motions required to obtain things in survival, which can already be made overly accommodating with things like enchants, potions, elytra, and countless other things, so I'm not sure what to suggest other than to point out that creative exists for that explicit purpose.
Especially if you feel this way while using farms, I really don't know what to say. There's only an arbitrary distinction between that and using creative mode in my mind. Obviously you can't make farms for everything creative would allow, but for the things you can make farms for, you're still bypassing the intended survival gameplay motions meant in order to gain access to those things. The entire point of survival in my mind is the gated access to things, because it's delayed gratification (needing to put in time and interactive effort for the resources as well as building) and opposed to creative (instant and no interactive effort for the resources and only needing to worry about building).
If memory isn't failing me, I believe Mojang has stated (this was many many years back) that they do not want survival to "play itself" for the players, and I entirely agree with that notion. When playing in survival, you are meant to do certain things to obtain certain things. While it's a sandbox and I don't think Mojang hasn't really went out of their way to break farms (nor am i saying they should), they also shouldn't go out of their way to accommodate them (meaning if they want to make another change that makes sense for survival, but it breaks a farm, they shouldn't have to NOT make that change that for the sake of farms). Nor should they make things overly easy to the point it strips survival of even more of its point, as survival is MEANT to have gated access to things, and as I said before, it's already seriously accommodating in many ways.
I sense that Agro's frustrations with layered difficulty come from playing bedrock on pc, because bedrock's player movement is awkward and goofy.
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Thankfully Console Legacy Xbox 360 Worlds are convertable to current gen which resolves most of the matters brought by 1.18+ Ore Generation Nerfs. Kinda wish I could keep them to 864 X 864 as these older smaller worlds are just fun to play on with all aspects of the game. Exploration, mining, etc, and I wish that these features from 4J Studios like limited map sizes with smaller biomes for example could be brought to current gen. With Solo Play, the third party program MCLauncher allows me to travel back to older versions of Bedrock as well so I can for example generate more balanced Ore Generation in 1.17 then upgrade the map to 1.19. Digging through Deepslate Blobs in 1.17 with an almost equal chance to find any ore from Y=15 to Y=0 is just fun. Maybe it's the nolstalgia attached to these older features that I enjoy as I have good memories with friends enjoying them, like with a friend who made a 1.17 map using the Seed Craig as a reference to the Halo Infinite Craig Meme XD. We built Craig's face on the Mountain at Spawn and anything good that happened on the server we jokingly said was a gift from Craig XD. Now that doesn't mean I was crazy like them running through Abandoned Mineshafts with no torches panicking over the Xbox LIVE Party XD. Guess sometimes to have fun, you just gotta get weird with it XD.
The Elytra, such a deadly deadly item. I stay away from that thing and prefer to use Riptide XD. This decision has baffled Java and Bedrock Players alike, but the trick is what I call the 65 degree angle trick. This will keep you in the air XD and on Bedrock it doesn't lose durability unless you hit another mob or player, so you can stay airborne.
I will say though with the farms, there was one Iron Farm iteration a friend of mine made that ended up being moreso fun in the end as it's shape was a literal UFO, he called it 'The Mothership' XD. Sometimes in an odd sense, these farms in themselves can inspire creativity XD.
It's some of the choices that Jeb himself has made that I question. Like Jeb changing the Drowned's drops from Gold Ingots to Copper Ingots to cater to Lady Agnes in 1.17 (Which is why I am welcoming the Camel in 1.20 as an awesome Counterbalance to this), or making Deepslate Emerald Ore borderline impossible to find in 1.18+ (it is currently the rarest block in the game) where it was uncommon to find in 1.17. Copper Ore is seriously abundant as it is compared to gold ore, and Deepslate Emerald Ore is just an awesome block considering I collect rough emerald specimens in reallife and the Deepslate Ore variant does it more justice than the base ore variant. It's when that gated access bar gets raised in an update to such a severe degree in a single update with no given explanation that makes sense, that makes literally no sense that makes me question the matter and look to other alternatives when applicable. The removal of the Notch Apple Recipe many updates ago made sense due to how overpowered the Notch Apple was, but some of these other recent changes that raise the gated access bar I dunno. While I personally wasn't affected by the 1.19.81 nerf to Adult Horses that they no longer fit in boats, I still do question that since Sea Turtles can still fit in boats and are way larger than horses.
The issue of the thread is when the goalposts of gated access to resources keep getting shifted all the time, and that's why it provokes complaints from some members of the community, why is it so difficult for some people to understand why some people want to play survival for the purposes of collecting resources then to build with the resources they had earned legitimately, without cheats or creative mode?
If we don't even get a feature to toggle these nerfs off which may become too prohibitive to our own projects, then no compromise has been made, it's giving one sector of the community what they want, but leaving the rest of us out. I'm tired of having to explain why to some people why some of us don't want to play creative mode, as it simply doesn't provide us the experience of the game that we want.
In survival, we don't mind the occasional death, provided those deaths came from situations that were our own fault or as a result of our own misjudgment when we were given plenty of opportunities or time to evade a hazard, as we currently do most of the time. But when they happen because the items we need to defend ourselves become too difficult to obtain as a result of a future nerf, then it's no longer catering to a casual experience. I understand it isn't all about me, but it isn't all about everybody else either, at some point people have to learn how to make deals with people, or issues will never be resolved and we're stuck in an endless virtual war over this, which neither of us truly want.
I never told anyone they aren't playing the game right just because they want to play it their own way. Like, what?
Look, the entire reason I responded was because you seemed unhappy with things, so I was was trying giving you your most practical options in order to get the most happiness and value out of your time. That's it. It was a suggestion of good intent to take care of yourself. Nothing more. If you're going to see any and every "nerf" as a negative (I disagree with this mentality), and if you do not enjoy the game, then you should find something that you do enjoy. That is the most logical answer. I'm not saying you can''t have criticism of things you like (that's actually healthy) but your stance seems like one where you are seriously unhappy with a lot of changes not appealing to you so it has me wondering if there are more pleasant things that would appeal to you. Again, it was just a though/suggestion coming from a place of trying to make sure you take care of yourself. I'm not sure why you're choosing to vent frustration at me just because I have a different opinion than you. So what? Forget me and take care of yourself. I mean that.
I was only trying to help you because you sounded frustrated in general, but now I feel like I'm getting the frustration directed at me.
I already tried to help you here, but this is sort of what you have to live with when you are playing an actively changing game, and playing on a version that forces changes upon you. Expecting every change to be one you approve of, especially with something that has a community as large and vast as Minecraft does, is unrealistic. Any individual one opinion (yours, mine, TheMasterCaver's, anyone's) is unlikely to entirely align with the average that Mojang will try to appeal to. That's just how it goes. You HAVE to be able to deal with changes when playing an actively changing game, especially a version that forces changes upon you.
Nobody here seems to have trouble understanding that people want to play their own way, so I'll presume this is just more vented frustration of what you've dealt with elsewhere.
I am a bit taken back at how you seem to feel like you are actively being marginalized simply because changes you don't like occur. I hope I am merely getting the wrong impression, though.
Not every nerf was negative, no, I agreed with the Notch apple nerf and so did my friend chaptmc and most likely yourself, because at the time it was too easily to abuse, you get nigh invincibility continuously, just for having a gold farm. Its status effects would stack on top of whatever enchantments any player would've had at the time which did make the game too easy, now that enchanted golden apples can only be obtained in chests in certain naturally generated structures, that no longer applies, as the buff is now a rarity as it should be.
Now that the Notch apple has been dealt with, gold farms are no longer as much of a problem as they once were and depending on how ambitious your builds would be, they were useful for builds that used things like a lot of powered rails and such.
Like it or not some resources were intended to be farmable and there's no arguing it, that's why some items are found as loot drops from mobs and even in trades. If you fight a raid and defeat an Evoker and survive, you get totem of undying, which while powerful, can only be used once per item, once the item has been expended, you needed to earn another and these items were non stackable, these items are already balanced, and there are some situations the totem of undying wouldn't save you from, such as void in End, they're not comparable to the Golden Apple, especially the Notch version.
Punishing players for farming gear which was clearly by design, regardless of your intentions, is going to cause annoyance, and to tell those players to adapt or use creative mode is not an answer to the problem. I already explicitly stated numerous times in this thread that build style survival players are in survival mode for a reason and I mentioned I do not want to play creative mode, as I find it boring, I like to collect resources and have farms be useful, in creative there are no use for farms because everything is handed to you in inventory, which makes resource farms pointless.
You're not the only person who has suggested players who don't like excessive grind times play a different mode, you know? and it's missing the point entirely. Build style survival players don't mind some grind as long as it is rewarding enough, but when players keep getting punished for going out of their way to create resource farms and strip mines, their experience is being ruined, and for what? just to appease a crowd that have different opinions? it is being marginalized when other people get to force their opinions on us, in a sandbox game that was originally intended to cater to different play styles, this is why there should be separate tiers of survival mode, and I am not talking about peaceful difficulty, or modding. There is clearly a very serious problem with how the game is being handled when people like chaptmc, not just myself, don't feel they are being rewarded for their grind as a result of a nerf.
Even TheMasterCaver doesn't like the ore generation from 1.18, perhaps you should ask other people how they feel about the Caves and Cliffs update to get a better idea how divisive this update was for people.
Minecraft Caves and Cliffs sucks! : r/Minecraft (reddit.com)